College presidents testify before House committee on campus antisemitism — 12/5/23

to support any member of the community experiencing hate as president I am committed to a safe secure and supportive educational environment so that our academic Mission can Thrive it is crucial that ideas are exchanged and diverse viewpoints are debated as a student of constitutional democracy I know that we need both safety and free expression for universities and ultimately democracy to thrive in these times these competing principles can be difficult to balance but I am determined to get it right and we must get this right the stakes are too high pen would not be what it is without its strong Jewish Community past present and future I am proud of this tradition and deeply troubled when members of our Jewish Community share that their sense of belonging has been shaken under my leadership we will never ever shrink from our moral responsibility to combat anti-Semitism and educate all to recognize and reject hate we will remain Vigilant I look forward to your questions thank you Miss Migel Dr nadell you're recognized for five minutes thank you chairman chairwoman Fox and ranking member Scott for inviting me today I'm a Pamela Nel I'm a professor of Jewish history at American University and I'm currently writing the book anti-Semitism and American tradition supported by a National Endowment for the humani public scholar award and I delighted to be here today because this gives me an opportunity to thank Congress for sustaining through the ne scholarship essential to understanding our nation's past this is the third time I have testified about this topic before Congress the first was in 2017 just 3 months after white supremacists chanting Jews will not replace us paraded through the University of Virginia brandishing torch lights echoing Nazi Stormtroopers strutting through Germany in the 1930s I emphasize this because the anti-Semitism igniting on campuses today is not new it is part of a long history of American anti-Semitism while anti an semitism is difficult to Define historical examples convey some of its Contours anti-semites believe that Jews have been corrupted by money since Judas portrayed Jesus for 30 pieces of silver and they've employed code names for avaricious Jews Rothchild and in the 21st century George Soros anti-semites believe Jews conspire to destroy Christian Western Civilization these conspiracy theories gained currency in the 1920s when Henry Ford's newspaper ran the series The International Jew the world's foremost problem today the charge that the Jews are internationalist has been replaced by the dog whistle globalist implying that Jews are the Puppet Masters of the worldwide order across American history people from all walks of life have conveyed anti-semitic ideas since 1654 when New Amsterdam Governor Peter stent tried to expel and I quote this deceitful race such hateful enemies and blasphemers of the name of Christ now more than 350 years later we have just marked the fifth anniversary of the murders at Pittsburgh's Tree of Life synagogue on city streets abuse is hurled at Orthodox Jews and swastikas are graffitied on dorm doors and also at the state department the long history of American anti-Semitism left its Mark in higher education quotas on the admission of Jewish students began in the ivy league in the 1920s and spread to more than 700 private colleges and universities the campuses also wrestled with the challenge of anti-Semitic speech before this fall in the early 1990s Holocaust Anders took out full- page ads in college newspapers Those ads launched Furious debates about free speech on campus and also helped Propel Holocaust courses into the university to respond to the disinformation anti-israel invective has been flaring on campus well before this fall I could look back more than 20 years in October 2,200 students at the University of Michigan yelled Israel is a fact fascist State and protested a hill teachin but the barbarity of the Hamas Terror of October 7th adds a terrible new chapter to Jewish history anyone who claims to care about human rights should denounce these Horrors that so many on campus not only did not but that they Justified the savagery in name of opposition to Israel has caused Jews around the world deep anguish while I deplore all hateful speech anti-semitic speech remains in America protected Free Speech stands at the core of the liberal arts education an education which almost every member of Congress benefited from when they were students but free speech does not permit harassment discrimination bias threats or violence in any form and when they occur our institutions and not just the campus but but our nation they have in place mechanisms to respond the American Jewish Community has long strategized about how to reduce anti-Semitism their efforts received a stunning confirmation when the US national strategy to counter anti-Semitism was published I believe this is the first time any nation has developed such a document I urge Congress to do everything in its power to support the National strategy and also the forthcoming National strategy to counter islamophobia thank you thank you Dr corn Bluth you're recognized for five minutes thank you chairwoman fox ranking member Scott and distinguished members of the committee thank you for this opportunity to describe how MIT is fighting the scourge of anti-Semitism my name is Sally cornbluth I have been president of MIT since January of this year as an American as a Jew and as a human being I abhor anti-Semitism and my Administration is combating it actively since October 7th my campus Communications have been crystal clear about the dangers of anti-Semitism and about the atrocity of the Hamas terror attack let me repeat what I said in my very first message to campus in that video I said quote the brutality perpetrated on innocent civilians in Israel by terrorists from Hamas is horrifying in my opinion such a deliberate attack on civilians can never be justified unquote I also made clear that students were feeling unsafe because of their Jewish faith or their ties to Israel and said quote that should trouble every one of us deeply unquote I have reinforced this message including in a November November 14th campus video as I said then quote anti-Semitism is real and it is rising in the world we cannot let it poison our community unquote I have been direct and unequivocal and such leadership statements are important but they must be paired with action and this is just what we are doing at MIT months before October 7th MIT joined the international Hillel campus climate initiative which help universities build awareness of and actions against anti-Semitism we have launched an MIT wide effort called standing together against hate it will emphasize both education and Community Building especially in our residence halls in addition to fighting anti-Semitism it will address islamophobia also on the rise and also under reported MIT will take on both not lumped together but with equal energ energy and in parallel importantly as is clearly visible on campus we have increased the police presence safety has been our primary concern nonetheless I know some Israeli and Jewish students feel unsafe on campus as they bear the horror of the Hamas attacks and the history of anti-Semitism these students have been pained by chance in recent demonstrations I strongly believe that there is a difference between what we can and say to each other that is what we have a right to say and what we should say as members of One Community yet as president of MIT in addition to my duties to keep the campus safe and to M maintain the functioning of this National Asset I must at the same time ensure that we protect speech and Viewpoint diversity for everyone this is in keeping with the institute's principles on free expression Meeting those three goals is challenging and the results can be terribly uncomfortable but it is essential to how we operate in the United States those who want us to shut down protest language are in effect arguing for a speech code but in practice speech codes do not work problematic speech needs to be countered with other speech and with education and we are doing that however the right to free speech does not extend to harassing M discrimination or incitement to violence in our community MIT policies are clear on this to keep the campus functioning we also have policies to regulate the time Manner and place of demonstrations reports of student conduct that may violate our policies are handled through our faculty-led committee on discipline our campus actions to date have protected students safety minimized disruptions to campus activities and protected the right to free expression we are intensifying our Central efforts to combat anti-Semitism the vital subject of this hearing I note that I am also deeply concerned about the rise and prejudice against Arabs Muslims and Palestinians nationally and in our community and we are determined to combat that as well we are also supporting faculty staff and student initiatives to counter haate and thanks to an inspiring group of Faculty members members we are seeing more discussion among students with conflicting views we know there is further work to do but we are seeing progress and mit's vital Mission continues thank you I'm happy to answer questions thank you Dr corn Bluth um I'll begin the questioning um of our Witnesses I'm going to ask members um before I ask my questions let me um let me do some housekeeping under committee rule nine we'll now question Witnesses under the five minute rule I remind members that I'll strictly enforce the five minute rule so you're so members are advised to keep your question succinct so the witnesses have time to answer please don't talk for four minutes and then ask the witness a question um that we've heard from many students that they do not feel safe you've talked about that in your statements but the anti-Semitism we've seen and on your campuses didn't come out out of nowhere there are cultures at your institutions that Foster it because you have faculty and students who hate Jews hate Israel and are comfortable apologizing for Terror how did your campuses get this way what is it about the way that you hire faculty and approv curriculum that's allowing your campuses to be infected by this intellectual and moral rot uh president G I'm going to ask you to give me a brief answer I also would invite you to follow up with more in writing and we will follow up with you so I will go down the line president gay then president Mcgill and president corn Bluth thank you thank you chairwoman fox again anti-Semitism has no place at Harvard when we recruit faculty we do so with the understanding that they are joining a community where we we honor celebrate and nurture open discourse both on the campus and in the classroom and to be a successful teacher and educator at Harvard requires the ability to draw out all of the viewpoints and voices in your classroom irrespective of one's political views and we devote significant res resources to training our faculty in that pedagogical skill and to prioritizing that in our recruiting and hiring thank you Miss mckill thank you for the opportunity to address the question uh I'm troubled by what you're reporting about the the culture of the institutions uh that we're leading um very contrary to the values that I hold as a leader of Penn University of Pennsylvania as well as the institution uh where any form of hate is uh very contrary to our values U I would venture and answer uh chairwoman Fox that anti-Semitism has a a role in the broader society and that's what we're seeing happening in the society and on our campuses and I'm committed to combating it in immediate term and the long term thank you Dr corn BL yes so MIT is a majority uh stem Education and Research institution and we are devoted to solving the problems that face Society our faculty hired for their Brilliance now we allow them to say what they'd like in the classroom in the name of free expression but we are committed to having them know that this is that our campus must be a welcoming and inclusive environment and although um they may say what they like in the classroom academically targeting any individual student harassing or discriminating is strictly forbidden in our classrooms and on campus thank you we will be following up with asking for specific plans for disciplining student and faculty who assault or harass students or prevent them from accessing UND undisrupted classes or campus spaces We'll be asking for your plan for preventing this rot from perpetuating how you're going to hire and assess inst instructors how will you change how you govern students and what are the practical steps you will plan to take um I I want to ask you one more question it seem as I've said and and Miss Migel I appreciate the fact that you feel uh concerned about the fun my feeling about the fundamental culture on the campuses that's foundational to to this issue denial of the right of Israel to exist so I want to ask each one of you president gay do you believe that Israel has a right to exist as a Jewish Nation I agree that the state of Israel has the right to exist Miss McGill same question I agree chairin Fox the state of Israel has the right to exist Dr corn Bluth absolutely Israel has the right to exist I want to thank our Witnesses again for being here and to say we will follow up and to tell you that um while we've talked about a larger culture out there it's the universities who should be um examples of what this nation is all about I yield back and I recognize the distinguished ranking member who is wanting me to recognize Mr Courtney thank you uh uh chairwoman Fox and I want to thank you for the moment of silence for the 137 hostages who are still being held um to this day we had a hearing a couple weeks ago on anti-Semitism where I shared with my colleagues and the witnesses that um a dual us Israeli citizen with family in Waterford Connecticut was one of those being held at the time um along and we thought her husband um her name was LE ban and AI banine uh the good news is a week ago leat was released uh and unfortunately a day later the Israeli military uh shared with the family that uh human remains which were found at the kibitz where the violent attack took place uh unfortunately matched up to aiv again Hamas never shared the information about whether or not they had him or not which is just another example of their their treachery um Dr nadell uh in your testimony on page eight you talked about President Biden's US national strategy to counter anti-Semitism and in particular you talked about the use of title 6 of the US Civil Rights Act in terms of being an effective tool on campuses to to combat anti-Semitism I was wonder if you could talk about that a little bit so title six allows for um responding to some of the issues that um the the presidents of these universities but also frankly of most universities around the nation it seems at the moment have been dealing with in terms of when um anti-Semitism moves into moves Beyond Free Speech moves in Beyond rhetoric and it involves harassment or intimidation the issue is that the office of civil rights and the Department of Education needs to be fully funded in order to implement um the US strategy to counter anti-Semitism and I just want to comment about this strategy because it is an extraordinary document it has actions for the um the White House to uh carry out or the the um that that division but it has issues for Congress to carry out which I have a sense Congress has not been carrying out and it also has major charges to H of society uh to respond to anti-Semitism some of which we are hearing is already happening on the campuses the problem is they don't make headlines because they're not a bunch of protesters thank you and uh again it's important to note that document was uh released back in May of 2023 uh certainly before this committee and and and the you know outrageous events of October 7th and and uh the ranking member mentioned in his opening remarks that you know at the same time we're holding this hearing we're also now still trying to get a budget passed for fiscal year 2024 the uh majority um in the house reported out their budget which as he mentioned carried a cut for the office of civil rights to be more specific it's a 25% cut $35 million out of their rather small budget $72 million lower than what the president had asked for uh I mean we we had a witness here again two weeks ago from the a who worked for almost 20 plus years at ADL the Anti-Defamation League they've been around for 110 years fighting anti-Semitism in this country and uh again she talked about the fact that you know that type of cut is just going to uh the ability of the anti-Semitism police if you want to sort of look at it that way in terms of trying to to stop this type of activity on campuses and again I was just wondering if you had sort of a what your view is of a cut in terms of the impact of the office of civil rights to do its job I think the cut is absolutely devastating and what I would also remind everyone is that the office of civil rights in the department of education does not only focus on anti-Semitism it focuses on all forms of hate and I I would guess actually tried to find this a information but was unable to do so but I would guess that the majority of complaints are not coming from Jewish students although maybe now given what happened since October 7th I would guess the majority of the complaints are actually coming from people of color and from others who have faced terrible bias so it is Unthinkable unconscionable to make that cut now and talk is cheap I mean I've been around here a while budgets are what really I think show the true um willingness to act in situations like this and I just like to close by mentioning that um in Connecticut uh a young uh transfer student international student uh from the West Bank um tassin Ali hammad a sophomore Trinity College who's a math major who was up visiting friends in Burlington Vermont they were walking from going bowling and this coward came out of his house uh with a firearm and a Point Blank Range shot all three uh students were absolutely they were going to their a relatives house at the time and it shows again that the Civil Rights um effort of the Department of Justice which also was being subjected to a potential cut um needs to get full funding um in the office of civil rights and with that I would yeld back thank you Mr Courtney I now recognize uh Congressman Wilson from South Carolina for five minutes thank you thank you chairwoman Virginia Fox and chairwoman Virginia Fox I believe appropriately began this hearing about how serious this is uh that the Iran puppets of Hamas have victimized the world including here in the United States and it's shocking as we include people who have been affected it should be Paul Kesler of California who was murdered by a professor uh a professor supporting Hamas uh as he was demonstrating peacefully on behalf of the people of Israel and so uh we have victims right in our country of murder uh in California with that in mind and i' say this respectfully uh to each of the uh colle University professors here today uh without any explanation I would like the answer uh and it should be a percentage of conservatives and that is you each rightfully promote diversity inclusion of race and gender with percentages available uh that is available uh at your universities uh what is the percentage of conservative professors at your institutions I only want to know the percent of conservatives what is the number do president gay thank you Congressman so I can't provide you that statistic because it's not data that we collect but I will say that we we try to draw our talent to Harvard from hey I I don't I I we've got to race ahead please I want more I just want to know what is the percentage of conservative professors at uh Harvard I do not have that statistic we don't that concerns me and U president McGill what are the percentage of conservative professors allowed to teach uh at your institution representative I strongly believe in a wide right of perspectives we do not track that information so I can't get that to you okay no none I I got the message and uh president corn Bluth what is the percentage of conservative professors at in at MIT we do not document people's political views but conservatives are welcome to teach on our campus and I and I think this is so sadul and shamefully revealing that there's no diversity inclusion of intellectual thought and and the result of that is anti-Semitism and you can study with government money all you want to doctor but it's due to Ill liberalism that uh has taken over the country and uh you might look into that when you get your next government grant with that in mind the barbaric mass murder on on October 7th by Iran puppets Hamas invading Israel trained by war criminal Putin has Si shockingly revealed that many college campuses are sickly anti-semitic this is defending the maniacal Hamas agenda the Hamas agenda is in their Covenant of August 1988 I hope you read it because it says in article 7 I'll take you you don't have to read the whole thing kill the Jews what that means is death to Israel death to America and uh to have that presented is disgusting sadly college campuses have descended from coveted Citadel intellectual freedom to illiberal sewers of intolerance and bigotry diversity and inclusion are a George Orwell 1984 implementation as we see excluding conservative thought the solution for closed minded intolerance on campuses is obvious to liberate Academia from denial of free speech respecting the First Amendment there should be diversity inclusion of more conservative academics overcoming today's blatant discrimination with that in mind Dr mcel I've received questions from really wonderful uh students at uh the University of Pennsylvania who were in a State of Shock about um the uh state of the uh University and you say the university has introduced a plan to combat anti-Semitism yet we hear of more incitement and intimidation of Jewish students at Pin do you understand that having policies means nothing if you don't Implement them and how many students or faculty have been removed to disciplined under your policies what is the average time for action on student conduct or other policies conclud to uh conclude you can get this back to me later what are you enforcing at a pro Hamas pen protest president Huda fakin and faculty member Ahmad Al Mala were seen enthusiastically clapping in support of the speaker as he shouted go back to Moscow Brooklyn blanking Berlin where you came from end of quote has any action been taken to address Professor Pro and Professor alad amala's support of this insightful and intimidating speech how are Jew Jewish students in Fine's class is supposed to receive fair treatment when she endorses hatred and I'll introduce that and also I'm going to conclude by another question how in the world can y'all now have a uh class on Resistance literature from pre-islamic Arabia featuring a uh a person who is with the uh terrorist organization pfff end of we'll present this to you thank you we go from Mr Wilson from South Carolina to Miss Wilson from Florida thank you thank you chairman Fox and ranking member Scott and thank you to the witnesses for your testimonies today as your W as the witnesses have shared anti-Semitism anywhere is abhorent and unacceptable and must be condemned I'm privileged to represent a strong United Jewish community in South Florida my nextdoor neighbor is a rabbi my Jewish constituents have experienced everything from bomb threats on Jewish centers schools to harassment of Jewish community members I stand with them we talk often we commiserate and we pray we must take a stand against all forms of hate whether that be anti-Semitism islamophobia racism xenophobia and terrorism this must stop in Congress for seven years I led the fight against Boh Haram a terrorist group that kidnapped over 300 school girls in Nigeria gang rapes beheadings killing whole families so I am particularly sensitive to this issue of terrorists and what they do but disagreements about the conflict in the Middle East should never escalate to threats of violence against any Community we are civilized Society we must draw a line and condemn hate please know that in May the Biden Administration Biden Harris Administration introduced the US national strategy to counter anti-Semitism a comprehensive approach addressing anti-Semitism in diverse environments including college campuses with that I have a few questions Miss nadell based on your Knowledge from 2016 to 2020 what has been the United States response to anti-semitic events I'm specifically thinking about Charlottesville unite the right and what the Trump Pence Administration did compared to this Administration Mr D the the unite the right rally at the University of Virginia and in Charlottesville Virginia in August of 2017 was for me and I believe actually for the majority of American Jews a major turning point it signaled that the long history of anti-Semitism in the United States that it was about to burst out again and for the first time ever that I know of Jews who were worshipping in their synagogues in the synagogue on Saturday morning and they watched some of those United the right ralliers parade past the synagogue armed and they had to sneak out of the back of the synagogue because they were afraid that violence would break out so what we are seeing in terms of anti-Semitism in the in this moment in time is that it's been rising and Rising since 2016 and although president Trump called the people who were the protesters and counter-protesters said there were very good people on both sides I disagree I do not think there were very good people on both sides in Charlottesville in August 2017 okay as I reflected uh Professor nadell on the horrific events in the Middle East and the subsequent Fallout on college campuses I have been in contact with my friend and former Congressional colleague Ted Deutch who now heads the American Jewish committee the committee is the author of The AJC action plan and tool kit for univers University administrators one of the recommendations is that the university administrators reenter the conversation about the Middle East back to a place of fact based exchange could you comment on why this suggestion is important and I'd like to Madam uh chair enter this report into the record without objection this action is important because the campuses where faculty who come from Middle East studies and faculty who come from Jewish Studies have long been in conversation not just since October 7th those are the places where the what we do in the university has been um manifested in the in the best way so I'm thinking for example of Dartmouth University where they held a forum and they had um in their second form 300 people in the room and they had 5,000 people online our University iers ities not only educate our students today but we can educate The Wider public and so I very much agree i' admire um Ted de and I admire the American Jewish committee for what they are trying to do but we need this is not a Magic Bullet it's not going to be fixed overnight but we are in the process of working on it and hopefully tamping down anti-Semitism in America once again your time is Mr Thompson you recognized for five minutes uh thank you mad M chair for calling this important hearing thanks today to all of our folks are uh testifying as we' have all seen in recent weeks there's been a sharp rise in anti-semitic words actions and attacks online around the world and unfortunately right here at home nowhere in the United States have these hateful and divisive ideas been more prevalent or found a safer home than on college campuses is up to all of us to call out these actions and protect Jewish faculty students staff at the these institutions unfortunately many of our University leaders have not met this moment and have allowed anti-Semitism to continue to grow and to rear its ugly head president Miguel does the University of Pennsylvania have in place any policies to ensure that each student who's enrolled at the University receives information on the history of anti-Semitism how anti-Semitism presents itself and action students can take to prevent and Report anti-semitic behavior um you know and if you know why or why not thank you for the opportunity to discuss that we are in the midst of making certain that all anti-bigotry efforts ensure uh education about anti-Semitism we committed to that into September and we're working through that we've added education some parts of our program do and some parts of our program need to be enhanced so we're working on that right now and I assure you that we will make certain that that is included in all of our anti-bigotry efforts anti semitism that much appreciated I wonder if that type of education would have been in place at all of our college campuses um before this um uh whether we would have seen the massive uh reactions that we have that are just hard to describe and and justify in terms of of the the demonstrations and and just the hate um and as part of the recent protests on and around campus there have been dozens of arrests made by University Police including several related terroristic threats does University plan on requiring students faculty or staff arrested as part of these protests to to receive further education on anti-semitic Behavior Congressman has that a question for me it yes I'm sorry please uh well we're very committed to making sure everyone understands uh history and anti-Semitism for sure uh the the description of the arrests I I'd need to learn a little bit more about well the requests that have occurred obviously uh related to protests uh involving faculty or staff students um you know the question is U you know uh within the consequences when University Police are the ones are that are that are intervening um whether there's any thoughts to further education for those uh individuals on regarding anti-semitic Behavior and the impacts of it it's certainly consistent with my perspective and my values and the institution's values I wonder if I could follow up with your team about this specifics of these arrests because they're they're I'm not they're I don't know exactly what you're speaking about but I I agree with you that anyone who uh was arrested for an activity that was anti-semitic uh some act or uh something else harassment intimidation uh should certainly receive education in addition to other consequences in sure some criminal activity they were arrested for that was obviously driven by anti-semitic beliefs and expressions uh several faculty members at Penn recently provided support for the boycott investment and sanctions for the BDS movement the movement requires boycotting Israeli universities and individuals who are complicit in what they consider Israeli government misconduct uh therefore it is impossible for a faculty member uh to support BDS and treat Israeli academics fairly can you tell this committee on a equivocally that no such discrimination has taken place I appreciate the opportunity to clarify a very clear position that the University of Pennsylvania has had for many years which is we strongly oppose boycotting divesting and sanctioning uh Israel we have many flourishing academic it's contrary to academic freedom among other things it's singling out uh one state and treating it differently than others we have many academic uh collaborations with uh universities in Israel we there terrific collaborations we have absolutely we're very clear on BDS we are opposed to it and our practi is make that clear so as a part of that and I'm a strong supporter of the right to free speech including on college campuses um does does University of Pennsylvania have any policies or procedures in place to ensure that BDS supporters cannot Implement their boycott positions in their official capacities we not given such individuals administrative powers to begin with well it's the position of the institution that we do not engage in boycotting sanctioning or divesting um and I would think that would follow for any member of the organization uh who uh is is acting in their official capacity but if you have specifics that I could follow up on after this hearing I would very much like to hear them we do that appreciate thank you madam chair thank you miss bonich you you recognized for five minutes thank you madam chair and thank you to the witnesses I appreciate the full commit commes focus on this issue I want to reiterate as I did in the other hearing we had recently that anti-Semitism as well as islamophobia and other forms of bigotry based on wraith ethnicity national origin and religion are abhorent and must not be tolerated I'm deeply troubled by recent anti-semitic incidents at colleges and universities across the country including those whose presidents are here today and I stand with my colleagues on both sides of the island calling for proactive steps from all of these institutions of higher education to root out discrimination hatred and bigotry in all of its forms I also want to note that the main point of this hearing should be to identify bipartisan solutions to combat anti-Semitism not an excuse to attack higher education liberal arts education or important diversity equity and inclusion work that's happening at colleges and universities across the country there are legitimate concerns about anti-Semitism on college campuses and that's what we should focus on today not doing so as a disservice to the students across the country who are looking to uh Congress for support for the and and the public for the institutions so during the previous hearing I highlighted my support for additional funding for the Department of education's office of civil rights and I want to join representative Courtney in repeating that request today OCR will be better able to enforce title 6 uh violations and protect student civil rights with adequate staff and investigatory capacities so I want to make that clear we must uh we must do Dr nadell thank you for for being here and for your work over the years uh public colleges and universities as we know must uphold constitutional Free Speech rights and many private institutions also recognize the value of free speech and robust debate I think all of our presidents recognize that today but also with the understanding uh that schools cannot allow their campuses uh to become places where anti-semitic speech uh makes students unsafe or feel unsafe I think that's recognized so uh Dr nadell what are some of the best ways that colleges and universities can work to make their campuses welcome safe and inclusive spaces for all students in light of instances of hate speech and discrimination while also adhering to First Amendment principles so than thank you for the question I think there are different forms and different venues for expanding this discussion of the very difficult issue that has sparked and ignited the anti-Semitism or the outbursts on college campuses that we've been seeing since October 7th so one form obviously is the classroom although I would remind the members of of the committee that the reality is that most students during their uh college career they take a a handful of courses many of them are studying stem and most of them are actually never in classrooms where they're hearing a discussion of issues like anti-Semitism or the conflict in um Israel and Palestine so that's the first thing that I would I would point out so uh academics we academics can continue to Foster those conversations and we need to take them outside of the classroom I think the other place where there can really be a lot of work done that would be very successful is on the side of student life on campus and so student organizations are um they they range broadly and widely on the campus everything from a gardening club to obviously um the some of the student organizations that have been involved in the protests against against Israel so I don't want to cut you off but I have to get another question and I'm running out of time but thank you for your work and I also want to recognize as well the AJC action plan for confronting campus anti-Semitism uh president gay I understand that there's an ongoing investigation of your institution by OCR because of anti-Semitic incidents that occurred on campus and I know we'll be closely monitoring the outcome but in the interim and over the long term what can Congress do to support your institution and other colleges in preventing discrimination and also if you could could also respond in the brief time you mentioned that Harvard will not permit speech that incites violence or threatens safety and I'd like you also to address who decides that in how and in what time frame thank you Congressman woman for your for your questions um you're correct that there is um an ongoing investigation and obviously I can't comment on an active investigation other than to say we will work with the office to answer all of their questions um and I will say the work of the office is vitally important for ensuring students have access to educational opportunities um so I fully support that the work that they do and hope that the office gets the resources that it needs to be effective um with respect to um uh Stu believe the question was about student conduct so again we are deeply committed to free expression but when speech crosses over into conduct that viol Ates our policies um policies against bullying harassment intimidation we do take action um and we do have faculty-led student disciplinary processes that are quite robust um and even over the last couple of months as there have been incidents um we have we've been leaning into those processes and we do have um disciplinary actions underway thank you my time has expired I yeld back u i now recognize Mr Wahlberg for five minutes thank you madam chair thanks to the panel for being here these are difficult times and difficult subjects but they need to be addressed because leadership matters and you are leaders uh in Academia at your institutions as well and Leadership matters um uh president gay I was taken by um some words in your your opening statement where you said cure for anti-semitism is knowledge uh I would I would go Where Angels Fear To Tread and and suggest that it might be better going back to the original motto idea for Harvard which was Veritas truth that the cure for anti- semitism is not simply knowledge it's truth knowledge puffs up knowledge sometimes based upon falsehoods I think that's what we're facing right now uh in in the climate on campuses is that we're missing the fact of Truth um and allowing under the guise of free speech uh knowledge that isn't true to be exhibited in actions as well so president gay in in the weeks since October 7th and again in your testimony you have said that Harvard's commitment to free speech extends to views that are objection able or out outrageous are you aware that Harvard is ranked dead last on the 2024 Foundation of individual rights and expression scorecard of universities on freedom of speech thank you Congressman for the the question um respectfully I disagree with that perspective as represented in the report that you cited I don't think it's an accurate representation of how Harvard treats speech on campus we are committed to free expression um and to making space for a wide range of views and perspectives on our campus all due respect let me move on a bit I would I would expect that you wouldn't agree with that I understand that and I would expect that the University of Penn the same would be true that you wouldn't agree that you're second to last on that same scorecard but uh president gay did you know that 70% of Harvard students say that shouting down a speaker is acceptable that is not okay I appreciate that it seems that perhaps Harvard's commitment to free speech is pretty selective as you are no doubt aware prominent alumnist Bill Amman tweeted you a letter on Sunday and in that letter and I have that tweet guess that's the beauty of social media you can get those things in that letter he highlighted two cases of Harvard faculty members who were cancelled because of views deemed too controversial for your campus Tyler J Vander wheel was deemed guilty for those crimes related to his views on marriage and abortion and then Carl Carol Hoven an ele evolutionary biologist was forced to resign because she stated that a person's sex is biological and binary Mr aiman's letter also included quotes from a number of facult highlighting the culture of fear that pervades Harvard's campus for those with views out of step with campus Orthodoxy and so president gay in what world is a call for violence against Jews protected speech but a belief that sex is biological and binary isn't thank you for your question so from the moment that our students arrive on campus whether it is to be their Harvard Journey as an undergraduate or at one of the professional schools the message to them is clear that we are an inclusive community but one deeply committed to free expression and that means that we have expectations that that right is exercised mindfully and with empathy towards others we reinforce that during their time at Harvard by helping them build the skills that allow them to engage in constructive dialog dialog even on the most complex and divisive issues because what we seek is not simply free expression but the reason dialogue that leads to truth and Discovery and that does the work of moving us all forward we don't always get it right and our students don't always and when they trans professors come under as well don't they your professors come under that as well don't they absolutely and so for Professor Vander wheel and Hoven that didn't work for them the free expression of views at the very least views whether fact or truth I guess we'll lead that to understanding but nonetheless they were removed from their positions and I think that sends a message a message in this case with Jewish students that they're less importance I yield back Mr Tano you recognized for five minutes thank you madam chair and thank you to our Witnesses for being here I do wish we could meet under different circumstances uh president gay uh many individuals hold that Harvard did not condemn the attack against Israel swiftly enough and I'd like to give you an opportunity to briefly to react uh can you tell us why the university did not react as quickly as other universities might have or others might have hoped Harvard would have thank you Congressman for the for the question and and respectfully the the notion that Harvard did not react is not correct from the moment I learned of the attacks on October 7th I was focused on action to ensure that our students were supported and safe on that first day we were focused on identifying whether we had any students or faculty who were in Israel and needed our assistance including in getting out on October 8th I joined students and other members of the Jewish community at Harvard hell for a solid it dinner to be there in support and also to learn more what their needs were in the days in the days after not only did I condemn the attacks I've continued to condemn the attacks and furthermore have continued to stay in conversation with our Jewish community on campus about their evolving needs so that to ensure that the university is providing them with the support that they need during this very challenging time thank you president gay do you consider yourself a subject matter expert on anti-semitic Behavior excuse me could you repeat that question do you consider yourself an expert on anti-semitic Behavior subject matter to expert no I don't but I I I know this that anti-Semitism is hate or suspicion of Jews and that is all I need to know to take action to address it on our campus thank you real quickly other than president Professor Nadal are there do other Witnesses consider themselves to be experts on anti-Semitism just a simple yes or no no I do not no I do not but I learn thank you well my point is that this is the second legislative hearing on this topic in a month and the majority has failed to bring forth any Witnesses who can speak on how to address this issue and how to take concrete steps to combat anti-Semitism president gay it is my understanding that you have communicated to the Harvard Community some of the specific steps you are implementing to combat anti-Semitism and continue to Foster student and Community engagement um you've already mentioned a few of the things that you've done since September 8th but can you highlight some of these steps thank you for the question so I've had repeated Communications with the Campus Community about the steps that we're taking both immediate steps and longer term action towards um combating anti-Semitism to begin we've focused on enhancing the physical safety of the campus and the campus community that includes an increased police presence both plane close and uni formed officers 247 threat monitoring both on campus and online coordination on a daily basis with State local and federal law enforcement and when necessary we've taken the steps of closing the gates to Harvard Yard to limit the ability of outside actors to use our campus as a platform we've also made it easier for students or any Community member to report concerns um and any kind of conduct that is is threatening we've also enhanced counseling and mental health services including trauma informed care we've created Community spaces so that students and faculty and staff can gather and to be together to process the tragedy we're also working on excuse me president gay thank you um are these actions only intended to assist Jewish students these are resources that we're making broadly available to our community but we're being particularly mindful to make sure that they are responsive to the needs of our Jewish Community um as well as our Muslim Arab and Palestinian students who are also experiencing tremendous grief and are also fearful and distraught during this time what president gate universities stand as centers of thought and it is of the utmost importance to strike a balance between First Amendment speech protections and the safety of students and faculty but when speech crosses into the line of into the line of conduct crosses the line into conduct is it a at universities act swiftly um Harvard is a private university and private IH have have different parameters to operate under than public IES does this give Harvard a pass to avoid protecting Free Speech we are deeply committed to protecting free expression even of views that we find objectionable and outrageous and offensive but when that expression crosses into conduct that violates our policies around bullying harassment and intimidation threats we take action and we do not hesitate to take action uh thank you my time is up and I I I uh I yield back to the chair thank you thank you Mr Tano uh Mr grman you're recognized for five minutes thank you I'm going to follow up on some of the things uh Mr Wilson had to say uh just playing around here a little bit on the internet uh in 2016 they found about 2% of the faculty of Harvard were uh viewed uh president Trump I think as okay or good and I think in the 2020 election the the crimon your local paper there uh found 1% of the students voting for Donald Trump which given that Nationwide is about 5050 was kind of shocking uh does it concern you at all that you apparently have a a great deal a lack of ideological diversity at Harvard and you think that atmosphere is maybe one of the the reasons why uh there seems to be such an outbreak of anti-Semitism at your institution is that is that question for me that's a question for you yeah and I'll ask you what are you what are you going to do about you think it's a concern so we we strive to have as diverse a faculty as we as we can because we want to make sure that we are sampling from the broadest pool of talent available in the world that's how we ensure academic excellence then I I I from what I read here maybe I'm just they're making stuff up but I don't think they're making it up we we said 2% of your faculty view Donald Trump as something other poor in 2016 and after 4 years of working for diversity 1% voted for him now I know all sorts of good people who don't like President Trump but I'm just saying when you compare the way people think at your campus compared to America as a whole if there's one thing you are it's not the verse right do you consider that a problem or the the numbers I gave you so um Congressman I can't speak to the specific data that you are referring to what I can say is that at Harvard we try to create as much space as possible for a wide range of views and perspectives because we believe that allows for a thriving academic community oh H how in the world is that even possible that you're that you're trying to do that do you really feel that you're that your faculty are ideologically diverse you you you you came out of a what was it a political science background at Stanford at Stanford as an undergraduate I was an economics major and then for my PhD was a PhD in political science political science that's what I thought did you experience what you would say given America's to Ed now 5050 about 5050 or was it 75 25 or 9010 regard regarding to more a constitutional conservative perspective or more of a left-wing perspective what what is your experience both at Harvard and Stanford so here's what I can say on the topic that you're exploring and it's we want the most brilliant talented faculty to come to Harvard and to build their careers there they're only give me five you're not going to answer the question they only give me five minutes um is it common at Harvard to ask faculty to submit a diversity statement that's a practice that varies across schools at Harvard so sometimes you do well in some cases there are schools that ask for that okay could a scientist ever get a cut from consideration for a from a job because they had the wrong view of diversity what I would say is that we aim to draw to our faculty the okay the broadest pool of when when you hear that that and this is not the way I wanted this to go but when you hear that 1% of your faculty voted for a presidential candidate who got about 50% of the vote Nationwide does that concern you or do you feel you're not as diverse as you should be what I'm focused on is making sure that we're bringing the most academically talented faculty to our campus and that they are effective in the classroom I I give you one more question because I want to go to go to the gal from uh pen has Harvard ever made a faculty job contingent on a strong diversity statement we look at everything a faculty member will bring to our campus okay academic Brilliance and excitement and ability to teach a Campus Community and student now I want to go to miss Mel I I have a friend whose son goes to University of Pennsylvania right now he is physically afraid to go to the library at night okay just unbelievable um could you I me I just can't even conceive that's going on in the United States of America but that's what she tells me she doesn't make it up could you give us your reasons as to why that is true at Pennsylvania why today a Jewish student is afraid to walk to the library at night Congressman let me start by saying I'm I'm devastated to hear that and uh the Safety and Security of our campus and our students in particular is my top concern um I would if you would be willing I would like to talk to your constituent and their their Penn student I'm very troubled by what you're reporting it's our top priority to keep our students safe and secure I'm going to have to ask you to follow up on that with Mr grman and with the rest of the committee um M Adams you're recognized for five minutes thank you very much uh Madam chair and thank you to the witness is for uh coming today and to testify before the committee but uh before I get started I want to just thank you for your service uh to students and to uh the university community um Dr nadell this question is for you I'm glad first of all to see another Buckeye here House St uh but as a former Professor uh at a small College in North Carolina Ben at college for over 40 years I taught there uh I am deeply disappointed by the rise of anti-Semitism rhetoric that's happening across the country anti-Semitism has no place on our college campuses or anywhere uh and it's been my mission to combat instances of anti-Semitism and and hate and racism alike uh there are Jewish students across this country that are afraid to leave their dorms afraid to step on campus because of the hateful rhetoric that's infiltrated our schools so this question is to actually all the president presence but I did want Dr nadell to answer first students uh should be able to express their views and opinions without fear of retaliation uh how are you balancing the protection of free speech academic freedom with the need to to also um oppose uh normalizing anti-Semitism attitudes that are are radical and and dangerous and if we could just briefly answer that want to hear from the president um on this sure so ju just briefly obviously we need to protect Free Speech but we also need to protect the safety of our students on campus and you use the word normalizing anti-Semitism and the problem is anti-Semitism has been normalized in the nation not just on campus thank you Dr gay thank you I'd say education is the key here making students and frankly the entire Campus Community more more aware of the insidiousness of anti-Semitism so that they're in a position to be able to recognize anti-semitic tropes when they see them and confront them in the moment thank you I appreciate the question at at pen our policies are Guided by the US Constitution so our long-standing uh open expression guidelines uh follow the Constitution I think in addition to education which I agree with so that students are and faculty and staff can identify and combat anti-semitic tropes and speech um I think it's important to call out anti-Semitism uh in a very visible and public way and a specific way uh in order to make clear what the how it's contrary to the values of the institution where we're talking about speech alone thank you so um title six Provisions set the standard for what should be done to address racism hate crimes and violence on campuses uh do you think that your Dei departments are equipped with the tools to combat anti-Semitism or hate on your campus and if not what changes do you plan to make this is uh for all the presidents I can jump in here yes uh yes so um our diversity equity and inclusion staff are absolutely charged with making the campus welcoming for all students and that absolutely includes our Jewish and Israeli students St we absolutely see anti-Semitism as an inclusion issue we're making sure that our staff who are dedicated to diversity equity and inclusion are being trained about anti-Semitism but you know it goes well beyond that staff it's important that our leadership understands anti-Semitism that our students and faculty understand anti-Semitism and I'll just say one thing about MIT we can make as many top down uh initiatives as we want but the heartening thing is that the discuss discussion of anti-Semitism and indeed islamophobia is now proceeding at a Grassroots level so can we hear from thank you very much next president our anti-bigotry efforts are also informed by a desire to make certain every person at the University feels welcome and can Thrive and that includes communities of faith and ethnicity uh that's the value we have and we're making sure that is from the top of the organization all through the organization uh and I believe over the longer term that's sort of an immediate action over the longer term uh making sure the entire Community is discussing understanding uh and capable of calling out and combating anti-Semitism when they see it thank you madam president our Dei office is a resource for the entire community and the Professionals in that office are committed to ensuring that everyone feels a sense of belonging but in building on an observation that um president cornbluth made this is a shared responsibility that doesn't vest strictly in the hands of our Dei professionals but it really is work that needs to be taken up by the entire Community the leadership for sure but also the faculty and the students um and uh and also doing the work thank you very much I'm out of time Madam chair you back thank you Miss stonic you're recognized for 5 minutes Dr Gay a Harvard student calling for the mass murder of African-Americans is not protected free speech at Harvard correct our commitment to free it's yes or no question is that corrected is that okay for students to call for the mass murder of African-Americans at Harvard is that protected Free Speech our commitment to free speech it's a yes or no question let me ask you this you are president of Harvard so I assume you're familiar with the term Ino correct I've heard that term yes and you understand that the use of the term inata in the context of the Israeli Arab conflict is indeed a call for violent armed resistance against the state of Israel including violence against civilians and the genocide of Jews are you aware of that that type of hateful speech is personally aboring to me and there have been multiple marches at Harvard with students chanting quote there is only one solution in tata Revolution and quote globalize the inapa is that correct I've heard that thoughtless Reckless and hateful language on our campus yes so based upon your testimony you understand that this call for inapa is to commit genocide against the Jewish people in Israel and globally correct I will say again that type of hateful speech is personally abor to me do you believe that type of hateful speech is contrary to Harvard's code of conduct or is it allowed at Harvard it is at odds with the values of Harvard can you not say here that it is against the code of conduct at Harvard we Embrace a commitment to free expression even of views that are objectionable offensive hateful it's when that speech crosses into conduct that violates our policy against bullying harass does that speech not cross that barrier does that speech not call for the genocide of Jews and the elimination of Israel when you testify that you understand that as the def definition of inata is that speech according to the code of conduct or not we Embrace a commitment to free expression and give a wide birth to free expression even of views that are objection you and I both know that's not the case you were aware that Harvard ranked dead last when it came to free speech are you not aware of that report as I observed earlier I reject that characterization it's the data shows it's true and isn't it true that Harvard previously rescinded multiple offers of admissions for applicants and accepted freshmen for sharing offensive memes uh racist statements sometimes as young as 16 years old did Harvard not resend those offers of admission that long predates my time as president but you understand that Harvard made that decision to resend those offers of admission I have no reason to contradict the facts as you present them correct because it's a fact you're also aware that a winthrip house faculty Dean was let go over he over who he chose to legally represent correct that was while you were Dean that is an incorrect characterization of what transire what's the characterization I'm not going to get into details about a Personnel matter well let me ask you this will admissions offers be rescinded or any disciplinary action be taken against students or applicants who say from the river to the sea or into f advocating for the murder of Jews as I've said that type of hateful Reckless offensive speech is personally abor to me today that no action will be taken what action will be taken when speech crosses into conduct that violates our policies including policies against bullying harassment or intimidation we take action and we have robust disciplinary processes that allow us to hold individuals accountable what action has been taken against students who are harassing and calling for the genocide of Jews on Harvard's campus I can assure you we have robust have been taken I'm not asking underway I'm asking what have been taken against those students given students rights to privacy and our obligations under furpa I will not say more about any specific cases other than to reiterate that processes are ongoing do you know what the number one hate crime in America is I know that over the last couple of months there's been an alarming rise of anti-semitism which I understand is the critical topic that we are here to discuss that's correct it is anti-jewish hate crimes and Harvard ranks the lowest when it comes to protecting Jewish students this is why I've called for your resignation and your testimony today not being able to answer with moral Clarity speaks volumes I yield back gentoman Ys back Mr Norcross is not here Miss ja Paul you're recognized for five minutes thank you madam chair uh the Anti-Defamation League found that reports of anti-Semitism have nearly quadrupled since this point last year and we're seeing that reflected on college campuses with Jewish students reporting uh that they feel unsafe no student should feel unsafe I think we all agree anti-Semitism and indeed all forms of hate have to be rejected everywhere and while all of you as College administrators have a responsibility to condemn hate and acts of hate in all its forms including anti-Semitism I know that you also face the challenge of and the responsibility of ensuring that people can engage in healthy debates of ideas in a way that Fosters safety and inclusion for everyone so I want to thank you for your commitments to work to ensure a continued diversity of perspectives on your campuses A diversity of Faculty with varied lived experiences I know that my Republican colleagues have been trying to attack Dei initiatives including the funding for those initiatives for some time and I hope that that is clear in terms of some of the comments that have been made um I want to just give Dr Gay 30 seconds to to respond to anything given the line of questioning that you had right before in case you wanted to say anything before I go to my lines of question thank you for the opportunity but I'm satisfied that I've conveyed our deep commitment to free expression recognizing that it's uncomfortable thank you Dr Gay uh uh Dr cornbluth your institution is one of many that has responded to incidents between pro-israel and prop Palestine groups many college campuses have been grappling with their responses to prevent anti-Semitism to prevent islamophobia and other forms of hate while also making sure that every student feels safe to express their thoughts in accordance with the principles of free speech and to engage in the idea of critical thought on college campuses which I think is what many of us appreciated about our College experiences can you speak to the um challenges that you've faced in condemning hate and acts of hate while making sure that students were heard and also just want to appreciate the distinction that you made in one of your comments between what we can say and what we should say and um and just say that frankly I think there's been an explosion thanks to the previous president in part that has shattered the Norms of what is acceptable to say and we're dealing with some of the effects of that but what challenges have you faced in condemning hate and acts of hate while making sure students were heard thank you so much uh you know and I have to say and if you can just pull that microphone right up to you that would be great I'm sorry thank you um you know I have to say my my absolute goal is to ensure the safety of students and the continuity of our research and educational missions and these recent um events have troubled me deeply and we have mobilized as a campus I think the most important thing is first knowledge to understand that as I mentioned in a previous answer that our leadership our students and our faculty have to have knowledge but way more importantly right now is these students are thrown together in classrooms and Laboratories and dormitories every day this is where the dialogue is taking place and we have to ensure that they have the tools for constructive communication across differences we are bringing these discussions to the dormitories we have a center for constru constructive um engagement where the students are going to be able to have small Roundtable discussions with each other we have a funded and mobilized and I cannot tell you how wonderful our faculty have been they've just issued a statement from 300 faculty about Unity and working together with the students and so there have been lunches there have been meetings for our Israeli and Jewish students with Jewish faculty for our Arab and Muslim Students with Arab and Muslim faculty but now they're working to figure out how to bring them together if we're all going to live and work together productively we have to move Beyond you know formal training which we are committed to but to actual real dialogue and to actually model constructive and civil dialogue for our students that's what being in university is all about very powerful um Professor nadell the the these challenges of protecting Free Speech while denouncing anti-Semitism islamophobia all forms of hate um that's not unique to MIT or to the institutions that are here can you speak to the same question of facilit the most effective ways to facilitate education and dialogue to ease tensions at other uh other colleges and in general the most effective ways and obviously I I very much appreciate your your question because it this is happening across the United States on colleges and campuses small and large and the most effective ways are to recognize the many different levels and mechanisms for facilitating these dialogues at the student level at The Faculty level at the administrative level and bringing the C how to unite the campus bringing the campus together that's what we're all trying to do and it doesn't happen overnight thank you all so much for your work I Yi back Madam chair thank you Mr Allen you recognize for five minutes uh thank you madam chair and I want to thank each of you for being here today and um uh first and you the my colleague earlier asked the question what is the truth of course that question was asked 2,000 years ago a pilot and um and of course uh you know obviously knowledge is important but what about wisdom um and full disclosure I am a student and believe in the god of the Bible and his word uh in the House of Representatives we with we're without excuse uh we have above the American flag and God We Trust really and then we have the full face of Moses looking down on the entire body who gave us the first five books of the Bible let me tell you how serious this issue is in 1885 BC BC not ad BC the Bible says Genesis 12:3 I Will Bless talking about Israel I will bless those who bless you and whoever curses you I will curse and All Peoples of the Earth would be blessed through you that is a serious serious promise um in fact we heard one of the panelists uh talk about the Jesus of the Bible and of course our church was founded by Jesus who was a Jew the American Church in fact the church throughout the uh the world uh you know this is the committee of education and Workforce um illiteracy illiteracy is the number one problem in our Workforce but I think from a standpoint of Truth biblical illiteracy is the number one problem in America we are a biblically illiterate Society we have no idea about these promises that are ancient in this book that the prophecies every one of them has come to fruition every single one of them so with that Dr Migel like so many others I have been extremely disappointed uh or I'm sorry Dr corn Bluff uh corn Bluff is that correct okay cor Bluth at MIT Israeli and Jewish students were blocked from attending class by Pro Palestinian protest at the school's main entrance the protest violated campus campus rules when the school ordered all protesters to leave the area or face suspension the contingent Jewish counter protesters left the pro Palestinian stay can you explain how that is fair to Jewish American citizens whose rights are being violated when you said because we later heard serious concerns about collateral consequences for students such as visas and that sort of thing can you explain yourself there yes thank you very much for the opportunity um I have to say when we started this protest when the pro protest rather was started I ordered a police present to ensure safety and we dis de-escalated when it was proved prudent in a very tense situation among students we avoided altercations and we keep everyone safe and we are now entering into a process of ensuring accountability now with respect to the consequences we strive for um outcomes that are proportional to the transgression in this case violation of our time place and manner rules for demonstration I want to make one comment though about people attending classes um first of all at no time well I'm limited on time here so could you submit that to us in writing Absol I have another question here in fact uh you know going back to talking about wisdom uh Proverbs 9:10 says the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom um and so with that uh president gay and president McGill do you do either of you plan to suspend foreign students who violate the law or school policies thank you for your question our International students are a vibrant part of our community and contribute significantly to Harvard strength and our real source of Pride but all of our students irrespective of their citizenship are held accountable to following our policies um including our policies around bullying harassment and intimidation and we hold them accountable for that okay well Dr Migel if you'll submit those uh in writing and I have a few other questions I'd like for y'all to answer thank you for being here and Sir chair I uh thank you Mr Alan Miss wild you recognize for five minutes thank you madam chair I so wish that this hearing um was one where we were having a a robust intellectual discussion um taking advantage of the Brilliant Minds that we have in front of us about Free Speech the limit of free speech and so forth I fear that we have gotten away from that I think the one thing that everybody in this room would agree on is that not all speech is protected or acceptable um for example um when elected officials lie that's unacceptable and un that sometimes means um that they that they have to be removed from academic institutions um where they may serve on boards or in the case of Harvard um the senior advisory committee based on false claims of of election fraud but moving on to the subject of this hearing let me just say as a Jewish mother of two students who are now fully launched and um I had to send off to college not so many years ago I am very very sympathetic to the concerns of the students and the parents um about their safety emotionally physically and other wise um but and it's not just about anti-Semitism it's about all forms of hate speech whether it's anti-lgbt islamophobia whatever it is racist language our students deserve a place of safety um and again emotionally and physically where but at the same time I think of college um as the place where we learn to think critically and to me that's the most important part of going to college um so here we are in this this strange Balancing Act and I believe me I I feel for all of you because it is a balancing act um that you have to perform so at what point um do we determine or do you determine that speech is such that it incites violence or it constitutes hate speech and I'm going to ask um president McGill from my home state of Pennsylvania you s you saw a video at the beginning of this and to the extent that um the protests that pen were were referenced did you see that video as an example of of hate speech or speech that would incite violence I appreciate the question from the representative from the great Commonwealth of Pennsylvania uh I mean that that video just as a human being uh was very hard to watch um the the the chanting um I think uh calling for inata Global Revolution very very disturbing um and I can imagine many people's reaction to that would be one of fear um so I I believe at a a minimum that is that is hateful speech um that has been and and should be condemned um whether it rises to the level of incitement to violence under the policies that Penn and the City of Philadelphia follow which are Guided by the United States Constitution um I think is a a much more difficult question the incitement to violence is is a very narrow category so let me just ask you there if you became aware that a similar protest um were or r or whatever you call it was going to be occurring on your campus tonight or tomorrow um how would you respond what would your approach be well our approach with all rallies vigils and protests is that our our Public Safety officers and something called open expression observers are at present at all of them we have a long-standing open expression policy uh that uh make sure our open expression policies are followed so I would make sure that those people were there uh the our Public Safety officers usually try to speak to the organizers of the conference and talk to them about uh what our rules are about uh about protests I'm sorry I think I said conference um about protests can I just stop you because as you know these are really short hearings was were any actions taken to shut down the protest uh I think it was Sunday night Saturday night whichever night it was the Philadelphia police uh their their what's called their civil action division was the lead on this and no I think they were there to make sure there was no incitement to violence and no violence I don't think any actions were taken would you agree that your in this case Jewish students undoubtedly felt very uncomfortable following that I'm sure that's true yes and I'm sure you've heard from many of them and their parents as well yes yes and the there were acts associated with that protest which were uh defacing some buildings which clearly would unquestionably a be Criminal action and the police are trying to determine who did that thank you unfortunately as usual my time has expired but um I hope we can continue this conversation in another another format thank you I want to ask um our members um to be uh very careful about the words they use about our colleagues um we don't want to engage in personalities and so I'm going to ask our members to hold themselves to a higher standard uh I now recognize Mr Banks Miss mcel just weeks before the October 7 Terror attacks against Israel pen hosted a Palestine rights literature Festival the event featured Mark Lamont Hill who was fired by CNN for calling for the destruction of Israel it also hosted and and uh included a member of the Palestinian youth movement which has collaborated with anti-israel terrorist and maybe most notably Roger Waters the really wacky former Pink Floyd vocalist the same Roger Waters by the way who's publicly used anti-jewish slurs desecrated the memory of Anne Frank and has dressed up as a Nazi and floated a pig balloon with a Star of David at most at many of his concerts why in the world would you host someone like that on your college campus to speak at the so-called Palestinian rights literature Festival I appreciate the opportunity to discuss this uh anti-Semitism has no place at pen why would you invite why would you invite why did you invite Roger Waters what did she think you would get out of him anti-Semitism has no place at pen and our Free Speech policies are Guided by the United States Constitution why did you invite Roger Waters do you anti-Semitism does not have a place at pen and you can dimn what Roger Waters stands for Congressman prior to the event I issued a statement calling out the anti-Semitism of some of the speakers at that conference specifically Roger Waters yes or no Roger Waters is among them so you you specifically called out a guy who floated Pig Balloons with the Star of David at his concerts I called out I haven't I haven't seen the condemnation I'm going to go look for it after this hearing and I I hope I I hope I can find that well-recorded cond condemnation from you I did call out the anti-Semitism of some of the speakers at a conference that had more than a 100 people in the aftermath of the Palestinian rights Festival you and your board chairman wrote a memo outlining Penn's Free Speech policies you said quote pen does not regulate the content of speech or symbolic Behavior you wrote including speech quote incompatible with the school's values you went on to say that Penn does not have a policy against hate speech because quote defining and policing robust debate even with respect to the most disturbing issues is unwise that that's what you wrote but in 2013 pen canceled now prime minister Mod's scheduled keynote address at a Wharton hosted economic Forum in the face of opposition from indianamerican professors and for the past year your Administration has sought to punish Amy wax a 10year law professor for her stance on Dei and identity issues and then you canceled an event with former ice director Tom Holman due to disruptive student protest simply because he worked for former president Donald Trump Miss McGill the fact is that pen regulates speech that it doesn't like everyone gets this uh no one more than the faculty and students who know exactly where the lines are that they're okay to cross why why did Penn let Professor Ahmad Amala off the hook who led hundreds of students in chanting there's only one solution into F Revolution why does that Professor still have a job at your University representative our approach to uh Speech is as I identified it follows and is Guided by the United States Constitution uh which allows for robust perspectives uh I disagree with the characterization uh that we treat speech differently uh and I can't discuss any individual disciplinary proceeding the same goes for Penn Professor an Norton who's repeatedly denied hamas's worth worst atrocities on October 7 or how about Huda f de who romanticized the murder of over a thousand Israeli Jews as quote Palestine inventing a new way of life and clapped as a speaker said Jews should go back to Berlin and Moscow why does that Professor still have a job at your University I'm very troubled by what you're describing Congressman that kind of uh you're speaking out of both sides of your mouth you're defending it you allow these professors to teach at your college you create a safe haven for this type of anti-Semitic Behavior you said something earlier about anti-Semitism being symbolic of the larger society your University is a hotbed of it and one of the reasons that we're seeing a rise of anti-Semitism and an unsafe environment for for Jewish college students all over this country you're largely responsible for it with that Madam chair I yield back thank you Mr norc Crosser recognize for five minutes uh thank you madam chairwoman uh and certainly for holding this hearing on an incredibly important subject that has been thrust upon us or should I say has been re thrust this is an issue uh that has been before our country and our world for quite some time but the one thing I do want to State before I go into my question is the idea of making this a partisan issue is disgusting this issue has nothing to do with being on a red or a blue team this is an American issue in terms of what we're facing on our campuses and shouldn't be taken under the light of a partisan issue that being given I I do have some questions uh particularly for the University of Pennsylvania and its president who is within a couple thousand yards of my district I'm going to start with the back during August uh Penn announced plans to host the Palestinian rights Festival that was going to be held in September and given that the ADL identified many of the speakers uh I believe the number was 25 as anti-Semitic this continue to happen uh the idea of what happened during that event after the event and as much as last night as I was traveling down here to see what is still happening in and around the campus is extremely disturbing given the atrocities that have happened in the Middle East so uh Dr Migel did you have the power to stop this event under our approach to academic and free academic freedom and free expression congressmen we uh have probably thousands of speakers to campus every single year many of them I disagree with uh I don't cancel or censor them in advance of their arrival to campus so anytime you use the word censor so any event on your campus you would never interfere for the fear of censoring somebody is that what you're suggesting well Congressman there are we we are of course always concerned about Safety and Security so that could be a a constraint we would be worrying about in thinking about an event it's a very rare occas would be times that you would stop an event under the terms of censoring if you under your opinion or those advising you say there would be a security issue well our approach is not to censor based on the content uh but to worry about things like the Safety and Security and the time place and manner uh in which the event would occur so given what happened in October you could not see ahead that was going to happen but the idea that groups coming on that are clearly identified as anti a medic would be of a concern I was concerned about the anti-Semitism of some of the speakers at that conference and also the timing of that conference was particularly painful because it occurred during uh the holiest time of the Jewish year and that's why in advance of the conference while uh saying that we are committed to academic freedom and free expression and the conference would go on I specifically condemned the anti-Semitism of some of the speakers condemning but you would have the power to stop it if in your opinion there was a security issue well Congressman whether there is a security issue is something that I leave to our Public Safety individuals and I defer to their judgments on those matters did you ask them we discussed the security and safety of of every large conference that happens on our campus and yes we did talk about this one and they in their opinion along with you decided that there were no security issues by the nature of you allow this to continue we did not believe we believe we were ready for any security concerns that might arise um so yes it it went ahead in hindsight do you think that was a proper decision I think canceling that conference would have been uh very inconsistent with academic freedom and free expression despite the fact that the views of some of the people who came to that conference I find very very objectionable because of their anti-Semitism would you permit the uh your academic Department to sponsor Conference of 25 speakers that the NAACP would identify as Racist congressman we follow our policies always and our policies are are Guided by the United States Constitution and a commitment to academic freedom and free expression so is that a yes or no answer the answer is that we follow our policies I'll y back Mr Owens you recognized for five minutes uh thank you uh let me just start off by saying um being raised in the 60s days of segregation uh this is truly Deja Vu uh one thing that I did learn uh through through my growth of the years is that hate is not passed down our genes is taught or untaught what we're seeing here is hate being perpetuated we keep people SE segregated keep them from Building Bridges bridges of trust never allowing them to find commonality teach them that everything that's gone wrong in their life is because of somebody else's actions then teach them look at our differences our color creed and culture and then teach them to judge each other it's dehumanizing it robs people of IND individuality but the endgame if it is hate it is very effective we teach One race all minorities that they are oppressed do Dei we then teach the another race whes and Jews that they oppressors the result is hatred segregation the ability inability for our children to see evil when it's when it's presence one of my Democratic colleagues was asked recently about the rape the use of strategy by Hamas to rape Jewish women and children girls girls and and women as Tera her resp response was not to defend these women against these evil men but that you wanted to discuss her haral hierarchal oppression that is Dei is a failure to protect Jewish communities across our country at your universities let me just say this also October 7th was a very different day in our in our lifetime and yet every single time we talk about an anti-Semitism we some kind of way drift off into other every sense of racism we we're talking about 1200 lives babies being burned beheaded hostages and yet we cannot stay focused on anti-Semitism I just remember a couple years ago when we were dealing with black lives matter try to talk about blue lives matter Jew Jew lives matter Arab lives matter and you be called a racist it's time for focus on what's happening on your campuses it might sound flowery all the the ideas of what your values might be but those values not being translated to our kids You' seen them in the streets every single day MIT there was a we just we heard from a a university student here that uh uh Dei official uh liked on the most posts on their media a post calling president B Biden a liar for saying that Hamas beheaded babies she also posted a saying that Israel doesn't have the right to exist is illegitimate sett s Sellar Colony like the United States I have a question um regarding this this idea of segregation Dr Gay uh Harvard is is now have graduations for black only graduates Hispanic only graduates and gay only graduates how does that bring us together as opposed to dividing US based on color creed and all the other things and by the way is it okay for a white group to say we don't want other minorities to be part of our graduation thank you thank you for the question there are a few scenes that are more inspiring than being I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm I'm sorry I I I don't I I'm going to ask you in a way that be very quick because I have a little bit of time is it okay to segregate People based on their color yes or no I oppose segregation okay well I do too but it's happening on your campus okay um do corn BR corn Bruth I'm sorry uh we have on your campus something called Chocolate City where blacks only are black only dorms where whites are excluded is it okay also for whites to set up a white only dorm where minorities are excluded you know actually at MIT our students affiliate affiliate voluntarily with whichever dorm they want to it's not exclusionary it's actually um positive selection by students which dormatory they want to live in okay so it's okay for blacks do not make whites feel included is it okay for whites not to to let blacks feel included on your campus we're talking about segregation and it's obviously happening on your campuses you know I think it's really important to say that there's a distinction between sending an exclusionary message and looking to other students for common experiences and support okay okay let me just let me just I'm sorry I'm running out of time and what you're saying is very simply in 1960s it would have been okay for whites and blacks to segregate themselves because they felt more like the people they're with I disagree very very much but let me just say this uh if in case we discover and this is for everybody here real quick in last few minutes that there's a direct link from Dei and CRT to the growth of marxis cous groups like BL uh BLM and tia in the Pras on campuses would you then end the Dei initiatives on your campus if there's a link between what that is and what the result of of hatred would that be a a a um would that be finished on your campus real quickly we have just yes or no Dr Gay let off with you yes or no our Dei efforts are about ensuring that all of our okay so that's that's or no okay do Dr I'm Sorry Miss Miss Miguel yes or no if it's found to be a link between Marxist BM um anti and and and and and hate hate um hate groups yes or no our Dei offices committed to having everyone's all right um and miss miss CL real quick just yes no sorry I find it hard to understand how equity and inclusion as a concept thank you so much I think that's that says a lot thank you appreciate it you can give an answer in writing and I have to remind members not to engage in personalities uh miss mcbath your recognized uh thank you so much chairwoman Fox ranking member Scott to our staff and thank you so much to our Witnesses today and it is not lost on me that the in intellect the intelligence that we have on this panel today um the most intelligent Minds that are leading our highest in institions are women so thank you so very much um I had the privilege of attending a very similar Hearing in the higher education subcommittee just a few weeks ago and I'm glad to see that we're continuing this conversation at a full committee level uh Acts or expressions of anti-Semitism have no place in our society and definitely not on any college campus or institution here in the United States and what we must all understand is that this is not just the Jewish Community struggle this is all of our struggle and the Jewish Community does not get to bear this burden alone it is up to all of us to learn more and stand in solidarity against hate in our daily lives to ensure that the violence and the tragedies that follow unchecked hatred will never be allowed to repeat themselves I lost my son to that very hatred so I understand it in my core similar to other expressions of race IAL and religious hatred all Freedom loving people all those who truly believe in the ideals that this country was founded on and continue to strive towards must stand together in the face of this disturbing increase in hate across the country and across the world an outpouring of support for the Jewish community and public condemnation of these heinous acts by Interfaith and Community leaders and elected officials and all backgrounds is the exact type of action that we need to take to confront this form of radical evil unity in the face of intimidation is how we are effectively uh going to resist hate in all of its forms these actions seek to divide and intimidate us we must show that we will not be intimidated that we will not falter when our neighbors need us the most that we are United against hate and we choose to love instead irregardless of our political ideologies or our ethnic differences as Dr King once said in I quote returning hate for hate multiplies hate adding deeper Darkness to a night already devoid of stars Darkness cannot drive out Darkness only light can do that hate cannot drive out hate only love can do that my community in metropolitan Atlanta is home to the largest community in the Deep South the largest Jewish community in the Deep South and it is no stranger to these incidents of anti-Semitism I recall participating in a press conference with Interfaith leaders our local law enforcement and elected officials the Anti-Defamation League and the council general of Israel to the southeast to condemn the appearance of anti- uh anti-semitic vandalism and white supremacist symbols that were uh definitely expressed in our neighborhoods and our communities while the reason for our gathering was very somber it was uplifting to see so many different people from so many different faiths and backgrounds all come together to make it clear that this is antithetical to what our community and our society stands for Dr nadell I've had you before me before and it's good to see you again can you please discuss some of the schools or the communities that have built strong interracial and interreligious connections and relationships in the aftermath of a racist or anti-semitic incident and what building those connections looks like and why they're so critical and imperative to Healing so what first of all thank you it's wonderful to see you again what really stands out is how at the personal level change can happen so for example at the um the University of California at Berkeley which is a campus that has been royed as these campuses have also been royed a professor of Israel studies and a Prof and a faculty member from Middle Eastern studies sent out a joint letter pleading with the campus to speak in a civil tone they these are two faculty members who do not agree politically on what is been going on but they got together to write this and then it was sent out to the entire Community it is those kinds of actions that we need to be applauding and we need to be elevating and uplifting and as I said before they just don't tend to make headlines thank you so very much and I you'll back my time thank you Miss mcbath Mr Good you recognized for five minutes thank you madam chairman uh uh Miss Mill uh September 21 a Penn student was taken in custody after are bursting into a Jewish organization's morning prayer service shouting shouting anti-semitic comments destructing property and so forth on November 10 after the October 7 Hamas attack Penn issues an apology for a display of light projected on the campus buildings with anti-israeli messages including phrases such as from The River To The Sea Palestine will be free and Zionism is racism on November 15 Department of Ed announces that Penn is under investigation for possible civil rights violations of title six and then just two days ago another Pro Palestinian March happened on the edge of campus with pen uh property being graffitied with offensive messages such as F the IDF inata the Arabic word for Uprising and so much and more uh there is a deeply troubling tendency by many on the left as already been expressed in this hearing uh in the in media Academia among elected officials and even some on this committee who try to somehow conflate or equate anti-Semitism with so-called islamophobia it's troubling that it seems that it's only Jews or Israelis who when they're attacked or victimized somehow become the oppressors or instigators of those attacks in the eyes of leftist or some on Penn's campus specifically it's wrong to suggest that anti-Semitism and islamophobia are equivalent problems in this country as noted already in this hearing Jewish hate crime is the most predominant hate crime in this country today Miss Miguel specifically uh again just this past Sunday night there was another march on the edge of the UN upen campus and anti Israeli March has there at any time since October 7 been an equivalent larg scale Gathering of crowds in support of the slaughter of Muslims or the elimination of an Arab or predominantly Muslim state has that happened on your campus or anywhere near your campus that you're aware of since October 7 Congressman any Act of hate i i find I ask specific question has there been any large Gathering uh you know uh uh in support of the slaughter of Muslims or the elimination of Arab states on or near your campus that you're aware of since October 7 Congressman not that I'm aware of there have so you would agree then it would be immoral or dishonest to treat the two as equivalent problems on campus meaning anti-Semitism and islamophobia that there's equivalency there on the scale of the scope of the problem on campus would you agree that would be immoral or dishonest to equate the two Congressman I I abhor all acts of hate would you agree that it's immoral or dishonest to equate the two that the problems are equal on the on your college campus or other college campuses any re any evidence of that effect Congressman I abhor all thank you Dr Gay uh on October 8 nearly three dozen Harvard student groups authored a statement holding Israel responsible for the Moss attack on October 18 a Jewish Harvard Business School student was surrounded accosted and shoved to the ground while walking near and filming an anti-israeli Pro anti-israel protest on November 10 uh when you condemned the use of the phrase from River to the Sea over a 100 faculty signed a letter criticizing your resp response to that criticizing that phrase or condemning the use of that phrase a Harvard Crimson survey of the class of 2022 said that showed that 93% of respondents viewed president Trump as unfavorable 6% of students said they were conservative 34% of students viewed favorably the Palestinian boycott divestment and sanctions or BDS movement uh currently Harvard is being investigated by the Department of Education for title 6 violations of civil rights uh title 6 as you know prohibits recipients of Federal funds from discriminating on the basis of race color or national origin a title six violation would occur when institution has allowed permitted or created a hostile environment that targets someone based on the race color or national origin we know of course that Harvard has a history of dividing People based on race uh based on the Supreme Court's decision and students for Fair admission uh vers Harvard does Harvard actually teach anti-Semitism in classes thank you Congressman for the the question no we do not and we condemn anti-Semitism and Harvard at Harvard there is no place for anti-Semitism as you know Harvard received for over the last four years 3.2 billion in federal grants and contracts uh during the 2021 school year Harvard received 104 million through title four why should Congress continue to invest money in Harvard when Harvard clearly violates title six and helps Foster a hostile Jewish hostile environment for Jewish students we are committed at at Harvard to ensuring that all of our students Thrive that they feel safe and secure well apparently 100 professors who 100 professors who sent that letter to you criticizing your condemnation of anti-semitic remarks don't agree with that and your students your institution is clearly producing students who are sympathetic to a terrorist organization don't you think that's a misuse of taxpayer dollars my time is expired I yield back Madam chair thank you Mr good Miss Hayes you're recognized for five minutes thank you first I would like to frame my comments in the basic idea that I condemn all forms of hate I don't think that there's any splitting hairs there uh that does not make me radical left it makes me human to think that all people should feel safe in their environment in the wake of October 7th of the October 7th Hamas terrorist attacks in Israel there's been a dramatic Nationwide rise in reported anti an Semitic event incidents especially on college campuses anti-Semitism in this nation has been on the rise for at least a decade the ADL found that the number of anti-Semitic incidents in the US increased by more than 35% from 2021 to 2022 and we've seen those numbers Skyrocket in the last two months a few weeks ago at Central Connecticut State University in my district a racial slur and a swasta CA were written on the ba on a bathroom stall in a campus on on campus we should all be working to find solutions to this problem not doing what we're doing here today in this committee the Biden Administration released the national strategy to counter anti anti-Semitism earlier this year the strategy seeks to increase awareness and education in schools communities and the workplace about anti-Semitism this includes having the United States Holocaust and Memorial Museum launched the first ever us-based Holocaust Education Research Center to promote effective Holocaust Education as a history teacher I know the immense power of Storytelling and how healthy dialogue is H and how healthy dialogue is imperative to finding common ground I would also like to make the point that teachers professors Educators do not enter this confession to hate any group of people I'm happy to hear that all of the people on the panel list responded to the question by my colleague that you do not collect data on the conservative or liberal views of Faculty I'd argue that that would be unconstitutional I would also like to know in the case of Harvard you had a very conservative notable Alum who was invited to join your advisory committee so diversity of thought is important and all those views should be welcome on any college campus president Mill what steps has the University of Pennsylvania taken in the history to ensure students have an understanding of the history of anti-Semitism in order to address the rise of hate on your college campus I appreciate the question very much uh there are a wide variety of things we do at Penn we are very proud proud to be home to uh a very strong Jewish studies Department with uh faculty members who are expert uh uh like Dr nadell on the history and uh manifestation of uh anti-Semitism many students are taking those classes we are proud to call pen home to the cat Center for judaic studies which is a a world resource um in historical materials about uh judaa and anti-Semitism and uh many centuries of History actually uh and many of our faculty and staff and students participate in programs at the cats Center through their fellowships and education and we the third thing I'd identify and there's there's more to say uh are we have many student groups uh that engage with one another across uh lines of uh disagreement uh and they to talk together usually with the leadership of Faculty to learn from one another and from The Faculty which is exactly what is supposed to happen on a college campus I also want to acknowledge the increase in islamophobia after the October 7th attack not so-called islamophobia but islamophobia palestin Palestinian students on and off college campuses have been target targeted president gay in your November 9th open letter to members of the Harvard Community you mentioned specific steps that you are implementing in connection with your ongoing work with the anti-Semitism Advisory Group specifically you mentioned work being conducted at the office of equity diversity inclusion and belonging I'll also just say that 18,000 complaints have been received by the Department of Education Office of civil rights the same office that my colleagues are trying to defund 48% of those have been sex discrimination 32% disability uh discrimination and 177% based on race or national origin we have a problem we need to welcome and and embrace diversity in this country and teach young people why it is important to have a full understanding my time has expired and I know I'm going to be gaveled out so if you can just submit that question for the record I would appreciate it and thank you all for the work that you are doing I'd be happy too thank you thank you Miss Hayes um Miss steel you're recognized for five minutes thank you Dr Fox for leading this important Hearing in October I introduced HR 5933 the deteran ACT to bring greater transparency and accountability for institutions of higher education accepting donations from foreign entities this will this bill will pass house hopefully tomorrow and I'm hoping that Senate will take it up the the invol involvement of hostile for foreign entities in our postc secondary institutions is one of the biggest threats facing colleges and universities question number one is Dr corn blood um in September 2019 then secretary divos opened the section 117 it's a foreign disclosure section investigation into MIT that has not been closed what what concrete steps that has MIT taken to address the lack of section 117 reporting so let me say and thank you for the question we have cooperated fully I can't comment on an open investigation but I have to say we have greatly increased our reporting to be fully compliant so it's not that all done yet but we it's still under investigations as I understand it okay a study released just last month by The Institute for the global study of anti-Semitism found that from 2015 to 2020 institutions that accepted unreported money from Middle Eastern donors had an on average 300 more anti-semitic instance than those in institutions that did not present uh gay Miguel and corn BL any of you can answer this do you believe foreign nations with views hostile to Israel would desire us students to Echo their views I I think Dr Gay can start thank you for the question so we have alumni all over the world and those alumni through their philanthropy support student aid scholarships cuttingedge res research one thing that their philanthropy does not do is influence how we run the university how we enforce our policies or how we keep our students safe okay thank you for the question at Penn we we of course follow every law and regulation about donations um from individuals in other countries uh beyond that we do not accept any gift uh that would compromise our mission or create any sort of conflict of interest so we have a very elaborate vetting process and uh we have declined gifts where we have a worry that would be inconsistent with our mission uh and we're very clear about this yes thank you so all funds that come to MIT in any form or for open publishable research we retain full control over what research is conducted uh we also have an extensive internal review process for reviewing foreign gifts um we also adhere to all federal laws and we see these reviews through the lens of National Security Economic Security and importantly human rights thank you for your answers and I hope that's really true uh president bangil that from 2014 through 2019 pen received a total of almost $300 million in section 117 funding are you aware of the amount that was given by Qatar were any of these donations conditioned on the inclusion of a pro Palestinian C uh curriculum or Pro Palestinian events are you aware if any of these donations were conditioned only for pro Palestinian professors I I appreciate the question I want to repeat that we follow all laws and we accept nothing that is inconsistent with our mission um of teaching research and Service uh and we would never accept conditions on gifts my understanding uh is we are we have taken no government gifts from the government of Qatar we have a small number of alumni in Qatar who have given some gifts for annual annual gifts to schools very small number but almost $300 million Congressman that that figure uh as of funds from Kar is is not one I'm familiar with that's I that's not what my information tell exctly how much you received from Qatar in section 117 funding the data I have yes I am aware of our 117 filings um I've I've maybe I can follow up with you afterwards that's not consistent with what I understand our 117 filings show which is no government no gifts from the government of Qatar and a very small number of annual gifts from alumni living in that country country Dr Fox thank you very much and I ill back we'll look forward to a followup uh Miss Stevens you recognized for five minutes it is absolutely essential that the committee on education and Workforce have a hearing about Rising anti-Semitism in the United States of America and what is unfolding on our college campuses and particular as we many of us have the where were you moment on 9/11 I have the where were you on 107 moment uh when I woke up to the news of the horrific and barbaric attack on Israel and what we learned that unfolded that day in horror uh my thoughts went to our college campuses and what would happen on our college campuses particularly as uh Jewish students have felt persecuted and attacked and their families have been concerned for a multitude of years um and I I want to say that it is it is incumbent on us uh to let Jewish students know uh that they are supported and that they belong and we know that the role of University presidents um encompasses a lot of things and in my home state of Michigan and in my home District at Oakland University our uh University president Ora pescovitz wrote a very compelling oped and she said one of my roles is to decipher and distinguish between protecting free speech and tackling unlawful harassment and I was wondering if our University presidents could chime in on how you balance that and and uh do that distinguishing and also that enforcing to make sure that we do not have unlawful harassment or the incitement of violence on our college campuses would you like to start DR corber oh yes sorry uh yes so thank you for raising that um you know college campuses are um a crucible of ideas where students are side by side and it's part of the education to hear things that they become that they feel are uncomfortable but to be to be absolutely clear speech can become a form of harassment and our policies make absolutely clear that harassment is punishable speech that targets individuals or again as we've heard incites violence on our campus or crosses the line these cross the line into harassment this is taken very very seriously and we obviously know that you're subject to the clar ACT and I adhere to its its r rules and and and clauses and look I we have now data from the ADL that says that since 107 we've now seen a 30 388 per increase in in anti-Semitism and we we have to one call out anti-Semitism but two make sure that we have the right anti-hate laws in place and it's important for us as a Congress to be partnering with all stakeholder groups but something else along these lines um and and maybe I'm sharing sharing this as a fellow student of the humanity someone I I hold a u Masters in philosophy and so a lot of times it's what's the question not necessarily what is the answer and I by the way Dr nadell I I hail from American University two people graduated from my my class in '06 so we need to have the proper place to exchange ideas and and have the space to ask have questions what happens when we remove Humanities what happens when we when we allow for government to dictate what is being taught on our college campuses similar to what we're seeing in Florida and in West Virginia what risk does that pose particularly when we talk about the proper teaching of History may I take that yeah you know it's interesting coming from a majority stem institution as I said um I can't even think of a place where it's more important that our students also learn Humanities have a humanistic perspective we all have to live and work together as people and in order for us to be successful when I think about the technologies that are coming down the road we want our students to understand the moral implications we need to do both we need do both and and and we will continue to call out anti-Semitism as members of Congress and and push on this topic five minutes is certainly not enough and I I call on our committee chair let's have a a hearing about affirmative action and what the Supreme Court ruling has now done to minority students and minorities being able to to join institutions of higher education let's have a hearing about islamophobia and let's talk about anti-lgbtq practices that are affecting the mental health of students on college campuses thank you and I yield back the representative of Michigan M McLean is recognized thank you and thank you all for being here today I listening to listen to your opening statement and we all talked um so passionately about what was happening on the college campuses as it pertains to anti-Semitism is absolutely unacceptable and I appreciate that however talk is cheap and we really need action so what I'd like to talk a little bit about about today is what actual action items not lip service but action items have happened so I'll start with you president gay under your leadership Harvard has done little to condemn hamas's Brut brutal murder of women and children promote Israel's right to defend himself or protect Jewish students from harassment for example I'm curious what action was taken from Harvard when a Jewish student was mobbed on your camp campus last month action not lip service action ma'am so this specific incident um I've communicated with I've communicated about publicly so as you may know that is an incident that is currently under investigation by hupd and the FBI and when that when that investigation is complete address I'm move on to my next question do you have an action item or not as at this time was any action taken any action I can't share more about um will these students intimidating Jewish students just because they are Jewish be expelled from the University I'm sorry I didn't catch your question will the students who are intimidating Jewish students just because they're Jewish be expelled you're describing conduct that sounds like it would violate our policies against bullying and intimidation and harassment and if that is the case addressed our policies another question why did you allow protesters to occupy University hall for 24 hours and not only were these students not punished but two of your Deans provided them them with food and promised no disciplinary action would be taken and that was reported by the Harvard Crimson I can assure you that we have very strong disciplinary processes and where conduct violates our policies we did violate your policies we have disciplinary processes underway so is there an answer to that or not we have disciplinary processes under way so was any discipline action I I love the lip service I do and you academic I love that I'm looking for an action item yes no was anybody expelled any action item and if you don't know that's okay too we hold our community to account I'll policies thank you president Mill under your tenure swastikas have been drawn outside residence Halls where Jewish students live the the hillow house was broken into Jewish students urged not to wear symbols of their ethn ethnic ethnicity and those same students harassed when they go to collect kala for Shabbat I will be submitting questions for the record on outbreaks of anti-Semitism at upen and I look forward to your response because obviously five minutes is just way too short of an answer but I would encourage you to give answers we deserve answers answers people deserve answers not rhetoric action items it is clear that the jewi students on all of your campuses are afraid to be themselves because you have refused to take real action there's that word action against anti-Semitism right lot of rhetoric no action I strongly encourage all of you to look at the Holocaust learning experience set up by Morris Life Health System in Florida to teach lessons from the actual Holocaust in to students in fifth through 12th grade this program has trained hundreds of teachers in two short years and has gone a long way to teaching students about the harm anti-Semitism has in our community Harvard upen and MIT I think yall could learn a little bit about this with the remainder of my time I will yield to miss stefanic Harvard receives funding from foreign entities in governments which support its Middle East studies Department correct we receive funding from a variety of sources because we have alumni from all over the world but that is correct right the Middle Eastern studies Department we receive funding from various sources yes or no are you not aware where the Middle Eastern studies Department receives funding we receive funding from various sour asking you a yes or no question you are under oath in front of the United States Congress you were giving lip service provided to your attorneys it's a yes or no question Harvard receives funding from foreign entities and governments which support its Middle Eastern studies Department correct we have alumni all over the world and we benefit correct philanthropy yes the answer is correct we receive support from our alumni from all over the world from individuals and what amount of support is that reported to the federal government I'd have to actually look at our filings you don't know as the President of University you don't know not that particular number it's $1.5 billion over the past three years are you aware of that I don't know if that is the correct number but that's the number you've shared has Harvard reported all of the federal oh my time Miss Manning you recognized for five minutes thank you madam chair for years varent anti-Semitism has been on the rise on College campuses and sadly since October 7th the October 7th Hamas terrorist attack campus anti-Semitism has skyrocketed on your campuses and all across the country it is shocking it is pervasive it is threatening and it is stunningly visible the fear Jewish students are facing is real and it's Justified Jewish students are trying to get an education while entrance to the their classes are blocked by protests outside and inside classroom buildings they sit in classes disrupted by protesters with bullhorns accusing Israel of genocide with students chanting long live the inata and by the way as we all know the inas in Israel included years of terrorist bus bombings and restaurant bombings that resulted in countless deaths of Jewish and Arab civilian ions Jewish students in College dining rooms are confronted with banners that say from The River To The Sea a phrase that calls for the end to the Jewish State and the killing of Jews don't take my word for it you can listen to the leader of Hamas who has been quite vocal about what that phrase means a Jewish student at Harvard was asked by the professor to leave his class because the other students weren't comfortable having their discussion in front of that Jewish Israeli student Jewish students have been pushed spat upon punched and told not to leave their dorms for their own safety during protests a Jewish student in my home state was told to rewrite a paper he wrote that supported an Israeli view of the conflict or he risked failing the course and Jewish students had their class interrupted when a professor told the students that they were going to take a break so that all the students could go with him to attend the anti-israel protest on campus this intimidation humiliation and exclusion of Jew Jewish students is simply unacceptable it would not be tolerated against any other minority group and we need University presidents to do more to protect Jewish students president gray you and I have talked about anti-Semitism you have told me your your goal is to eradicate anti-Semitism at Harvard that is a lofty goal but will you commit to doing everything necessary to keep Jewish students and faculty safe and be able to participate in the full range of Harvard's learning experiences the short answer is yes thank you and will you enforce all the codes of conduct against students and faculty who violate those codes and will you communicate those codes and your intention to hold students and faculty accountable absolutely will you Endeavor to reenter the conversation about the Middle East back to a place of fact-based exchange and evaluate your course offerings and your faculty to ensure that you have intellectual diversity and multiple perspectives about Israel and Zionism including professors who support the right of Israel to exist and support the right of Jewish people to self-determination in the Middle East studies Department absolutely committed thank you and will you commit to work with Jewish and Israeli Scholars to make sure Harvard has full range of lectures and scholarship described as described in Dr Nell's testimony education is the path forward here so I understand that you have condemned the phrase from the river to the sea but I also know that the Harvard School of Public Health has a course called the settler Colonial determinance of Health that introduces students to the concept of settler colonialism and its Health Equity implication it uses case studies in the United States and Palestine and talks about poor health outcomes for indigenous and other non-settler communities president gray are you aware that Jews were indeed indigenous to the land of Israel and have lived there for 2,000 years I do know about the long history in Israel so what is Harvard doing to educate members of the community about these phrases and other false accusations that Israel is a racist settler colonialist AP paride State given that Harvard is actually teaching courses with the underlying premise that Israel is a colonial a settler colonial state we have faculty we have outside speakers who come and over the last couple of months in particular have have been providing more insight into the nature of the conflict and the ways forward and obviously we have more work to do and that's part of how we're going to eradicate anti-Semitism on our campus sadly my time is expiring but I'd like to follow up on that and other courses at Harvard and I'd also like to follow up uh with Miss McGill about how her students felt her Jewish students felt after the Palestinian writers U meeting and whether they in fact felt thank you madam chair Miss Miller you're recognized for five minutes thank you Dr Gay when Harvard allows foreign students to enter the US on a student visa you are responsible for ensuring that they uphold our American values of free speech and free exercise of religion Harvard can expel students who are here on a Visa if they commit acts of violence or threaten violence against American citizens which would terminate their student visas Dr Gay has Harvard expelled any foreign students who are here on student visas for threatening violence against American students our International students are an enormous source of Pride for Harvard and part of our strength as an institution and we hold those students accountable weell anybody we hold those students accountable to the same set of disciplinary processes that we hold all of our students accountable to so you have not expelled anybody I'm assuming your non-answer is an answer to the students they now know you have not expelled any foreign student for threatening the Jewish students Dr gay if Harvard found out that a student organization was taking money or taking money from or coordinating with a foreign terce organization would you immediately suspend that student organization so our student organizations are recognized on the condition that they comply with Harvard policies when they violate those policies there are repercussions thank you DR or Miss Migel today you said that you defend free speech at upen and follow the US Constitution to determine your speech guidelines would you allow president Trump who is a graduate of upen to speak at upen if a student group invited him yes that's excellent I'm sure president Trump will be happy to hear that you would welcome him on the upen campus Miss Miguel earlier this year a former upen student told the house Judiciary Committee that she was forced to undress and change next to a grown man with male gentia 18 times a week in the locker room Miss Mill do you think it's appropriate for youen to force young women to change in a locker room with biological men against their will I appreciate the question uh at at pen we follow the rules of competition and if a student complies with NCAA rules they can compete for pen yes this is a clear violation of Title Nine you are violating the civil rights of your female students and you will be held to account for it Miss Migel as president of upen can you give us some insight into why Joe Biden was paid almost a million dollars by upen what were his responsibilities when he is at upen did he teach a class I appreciate the question uh President Biden was a professor of practice at University of Pennsylvania for a little over two years my understanding is that his salary was $400,000 a year we also had uh Mr Jeb Bush as a professor of practice at University of Pennsylvania profess uh President Biden had a wide variety of uh uh obligations he was inbl different class exactly did he have he was he held seminars he was in many different classes he interacted with thousands of students over the time he was there he invited uh speakers the goal of the center was to enhance for $400,000 Anonymous student anonymous Chinese donations poured into up pen after your University hired Joe Biden and he appeared to have a nosh show job the house oversight committee is going to get to the bottom of this and I yield the remainder of my time to Dr Fox thank you very much um president McGill on Sunday I received a letter from the Wharton Club of Israel outlining their efforts to secure a briefing for you and other leaders of your campus by representative of the Israeli Defense Forces we have seen significant efforts to deny the seriousness of hamas's attacks Terror on October 7th so I assume providing your campus leadership information about what actually happened would be helpful as you addressed the explosion of anti-Semitism Unfortunately they said they were informed by your office that briefing will not happen this calendar year that leaves the impression that you don't want the information president McGill will you commit to getting a briefing schedule before the end of the year from the IDF Madame chairwoman uh I I do not in any way deny the brutality and barbaric nature of the hos attack on October 7 we in Congress have had a briefing and seen the films I receive many invitations I I do have to attend into my calendar um uh Dr kros will you uh hear what these people have to say I will hear what anyone who wants to give me information wants to say thank you I I yield back Mr Bowman you're recognized for five minutes thank you so much uh Madam chair and thank you to our Witnesses for being here really appreciate you taking the time and sharing your experiences and expertise during this uh very difficult time uh quick yes or no question do you all feel that education globally is very important in addressing the issue of anti-Semitism you could just shake your head or or say yes yes absolutely education's key okay thank you for saying that um I'm asking that question because you know a lot of this conversation has been framed around uh you know holding students account accountable for their uh threats or violence towards Jewish students as they should be held accountable absolutely and some of it has been framed around you know additional punishments of course um but there's been a lot of political pandering discussed here without the action that goes with the accountability and the condemnation that must happen when we see anti-Semitism as it raises its head and what I mean by that is is I introduced something called the Great replacement Theory resolution and I wanted us as Congress to condemn the great replacement Theory the great replacement theory is a white supremacist theory that says Jews blacks and immigrants are looking to replace white people in America I introduced that da last Congress it passed along Democratic lines I don't believe any Republicans voted for that particular resolution in addition my colleagues on the other side of the AL continue to look to cut funding to the Department of Education which will be critical to helping us fight anti-Semitism in addition we have discussed already cuts to the office of civil rights that my Republican colleagues support that also is critical to fighting anti-Semitism I would also have ADD cuts to the Department of Health and Human Services as part of this conversation so absolutely we must condemn absolutely we must hold people and students accountable but how do we get into the mud and do the real work of fighting anti-Semitism without investing in education in the way that we need to invest not just at the higher education level but in our K to2 schools as well I'm a former K to2 educator for 20 years I taught Elementary School I I was a dean in the in the in the high school and I was a middle school principal for 10 and a half years our kids read The Diary of Anne Frank I've had students who have gone to the Holocaust Museum I still have students in my district from the Bronx black or brown visiting the Holocaust Museum becoming educated and wanting to learn more talk to me about the need not just for you all As Leaders in higher education but every single person in this room's responsibility to fight anti-Semitism and anti-hate in all its forms and I just want to add we have an original sin in our nation of slavery and discrimination that sin continues to evolve as as segregation separation and a lack of understanding and empathy of knowledge of each other can you just speak briefly to all of that we'll start here and go down down the line yes thank you Congressman Bowman um this actually Echoes what I had said earlier which is it's every single one of our responsibility and this is why I am heartened by the full MIT Community taking up this problem it's a human problem yes person to person so I appreciate what you had to say about this I want to add that I'm so glad that you raised K through 12 because everybody here is talking as if what has happened on the college campus happened day noo and those kids came to campus and they never had an education before so we need to be teaching about anti-Semitism not just the Holocaust anti-Semitism and racism in America and our kids live in segregated communities so you have white kids living with white kids black kids living with they NE they never interact with each other they don't go to school together they don't know each other so of course hate is going to be a major part of our society if we continue to have segregation in our communities in our homes I'm sorry please Congressman I uh so appreciate what you asked asked and I I I I think one of the thoughts I have is that the immediate action is very important and the calling out of the hateful action and for the longer term it's an all societal education uh obligation as well as every one of our responsibilities to be fighting anti-Semitism thank you Dr gay thank you so much for your question we have spent a lot of time here talking about the importance of accountability for behavior that crosses the line we've talked about how important it is to denounce language that offends our values as should but it's as we should but ultimately the path forward is education it's education about the history of this hate and this bigotry it's also education about how it manifests in the in in the present and what modern anti-semitic tropes look like and it's also education about how do you actually engage in civil Dialogue on really complex and divisive issues thank you so much I yield back um Miss Leto you're recognized for five minutes thank you Dr Fox to our University presidents yes or no have you established rigorous programs and rules to address and prevent sexual harassment and violence against women on your campuses yes or no Dr gay yes yes Miss Miguel yes yes yes thank you uh please bear with me because as a mom a daughter and a woman what I'm about to to Shar is hard an article from CNN which examines the Israeli investigation into acts of sexual violence by Hamas during the events of October 7th includes a testimony from a female witness of the Nova Festival attack quote they bent someone over and I understood he was raping her and then he was passing her on to someone else the woman who was not identified said of what she saw quote she was alive she stood on her feet and she was bleeding from her back I saw what he I saw that he was pulling her hair she had long brown hair I saw him chop off her breast and then he was throwing it toward the road tossed it to someone else and they started playing with it the witness added I remembered seeing another person raping her and while he was within her he shot her in the head this is just one of hundreds of accounts of sexual assault that happened on October 7th Dr Gay an article in the Harvard Crimson dated October 10th includes a statement from the Harvard undergraduate Palestine solidarity committee co-signed by 33 other student organizations at Harvard I'd like to read the statement to you quote we the undersigned student organizations hold the Israeli regime entirely responsible for all unfolding violence how Dr Gay do you Reon reconcile the blatant hypocrisy of allowing your students a forum to promote and celebrate terrorist groups that make the rape and mutilation of women and children a core function of their operations while at the same time working for years to combat sexual violence towards women and by allowing a month to pass before addressing with a real plan and Demon of the demonstrations and intimidations on your campuses what message is this and this delay conveying to your women on your campuses I can only imagine how terrifying it is to be a Jewish woman on any of your campuses just last night a Jewish student from MIT wrote to me that she felt fearful and was forced to leave her study group during her doctoral exams because someone in her group told her that the women at the Nova Festival deserve to die because they were partying on Stolen land now while I am grateful for your condemning of anti-Semitism in statements to your students and to this committee it's not enough there has been no real action to hold anti-semitic students accountable for their behavior they should be expelled the bottom line is that the buck stops with University presidents and all students should feel safe on a college campus especially in this case Jewish women as it would be terrifying to know and as a former administrator myself in higher education this is a major step backward in all that we have done to stand up against sexual violence towards women I have always defended higher education in this institution but quite frankly today I am embarrassed I Y back the remainder of my time to miss stonic Dr Gay did anyone contact you about flying the Israeli flag over Harvard Yard yes and the decision was made not to allow the flag to be flown over Harvard Yard it has been standard protocol at the University for years to only fly the American flag unless we have a visiting dignitary uh so the decision was made to allow the Ukraine flag to be flown over Harvard Yard that was a decision that was made by my predecessor as an exception to a longstanding rule so it was an exception so you made an exception for the Ukrainian flag but not the the University made an exception for the Ukrainian flag but not the Israeli flag that was a choice made by my predecessor um are you aware that there are stickers that are placed on Harvard University Dining Services food calling for Israeli apartheid it says warning Sabra funds Israeli apartheid and the murder of Palestinians is that acceptable I can assure you that we have strong disciplinary processes when there are violations of our rules and this is a violation of the rules I can't see that very clearly but are you not aware of the stickers being placed on the food items provided to Harvard students I do recall an episode like that and there are disciplinary actions ongoing going given students privacy and furpa which I'm sure you know well I will not say more about these particular cases other than to say that disciplinary processes are underway thank you Miss Leisure Fernandez you're recognized for five minutes thank you very much and thank you to the witnesses for being here and and I am struck um by the passion which we are all are bringing U because we know that the issue we're talking about today anti-Semitism uh white supremacy you know the issues that give rise to this the issues of hate uh need to be addressed what saddens me is that my colleagues on the other side of the aisle uh recently passed uh an Appropriations bill out of the committee that would cut funding to the office of of civil Whites by 25% we know that we must investigate these and hold universities including your universities uh or the universities in my home state of New Mexico accountable if they do not protect students from anti-Semitism they do not protect students from islamophobia if they do not protect students from the many versions of hate that we too often see in our community so I would urge and encourage and ask and plead with my colleagues to fully fund the Department of Education and the office of civil rights so we could go after those instances where universities fail to do what they're required to do recently I sat with students from New Mexico from the University of New Mexico to ask them to share with me so I could bring their stories here about what are you facing on our campus back home and sadly the stories I heard would make your heart cry they made my heart cry we heard from sefari students who are proud of the Heritage they bring with them having suffered through for their minds the Inquisition we heard from ashkanazi who parents and grandparents sorry they're lot young grandparents and great-grandparents suffered through the Holocaust and how there is a normalization they are worried about the fact that anti-Semitism is now being normalized and we all have a duty to fight back against that and one of the things that they pointed out is that there seems to be a lack of understanding of the history of anti-Semitism there seems to be a lack of understanding of the attacks on Jews over the centuries as we mentioned from the Inquisition and before that to the Holocaust to the latest that we are now seeing and the they said how come there isn't General curricula that requires it we talked about the importance of K through 12 understanding that we know at Harvard for example that you have a I believe a course on the Holocaust but what do you have for before you get to that specialized course like how are we making sure that all students understand that and you're Madam president if you could answer that I know you look like you wanted to respond you an excellent point so already in our curriculum there are so many opportunities for students to learn more about the relevant history but I think one of the things that has become apparent over the last couple of months is that we have to find ways of making that education more broadly available to our campus Community to all of our students and also to our faculty and to our staff and we have work to do on that for sure and because this idea that that they are that that Jewish students uh and that Jews are not indigenous to these lands I think it's something that needs to be pushed back against right uh and uh and some of these false narratives I think are really important and and I think one of the questions then is what do we do when there has been that loss of faith when students at UNM say we're being told we're not from that land right and and and students who have who are indigenous you know who share both uh you know heritage the Safari uh Heritage of the Zuni preo Heritage of being Latino uh who want to and deserve to be able to claim it all like I would ask and maybe Dr nadell uh or or I think you wanted to say something uh how do we regain that trust so what you're saying is really really important um we're making a real effort to educate our students on the history of the Middle East our Center for international studies has organized an online course um and really understanding the facts the other thing I do want to say though about your comments on the Holocaust as the last survivors of the Holocaust um are passing away it it it really um behooves us to make sure our students at all levels understand the history of the Holocaust and as you say this starts at K to2 not just once they get to us at University Dr Nadal did you want I I would just add that um the magical word online we can really reach millions of millions of people with online programs about this history thank you and with that my time is expired and I yeld back thank you Miss loer Fernandez Mr Kylie you're recognized for five minutes president gay a few months ago the foundation for individual rights and education released its rankings of how good colleges are at protecting free speech and out of 248 schools ranked harder ranked dead last number 248 in fact it was the worst score in the history of the rankings 0 out of 100 now you've quibbled with the study the methodology but you don't get to be dead last without there being some truth there and yet in the aftermath of October 7th including several times today you've repeatedly stressed Harvard's commitment to free speech you've certainly been more outspoken about Free Speech after October 7th than you were before I don't think there's any doubt about that so anyone looking at this objectively will see that you had literally the worst record in the country on free speech and it was only once chance of global the antifa started disrupting classes and harassing students that you suddenly became a stalwart for free speech do you understand why that's troubling to people respectfully I disagree with that perspective um and I don't think it's an accurate representation of how Harvard treats speech on campus we are committed to free expression um and making space for a wide range of views and voices and opinions it's thank you Dr G but I I ask if you understand why people are troubled and you proceeded to try to defend yourself which suggests to me that you don't really understand and haven't adequately tried to so I'm going to ask you a few questions and I'd really appreciate a yes or no answer if you could do you believe Hamas is a terrorist organization Hamas is a terrorist organization Senator Schumer in a speech a few days ago uh characterized October 7th as a vicious blood Cur premeditated Massacre of innocent men women children and elderly do you agree with that characterization that characterization is accurate and I have condemned the heinous and barbaric terrorist attacks Senator Schumer also said that when students on college campuses across the country who wear yamaka or display a Jewish star are harassed verbally vilified pushed and even spat upon and punched that is anti-Semitism do you agree with him that that's anti-Semitism I agree do you acknowledge that some incidents of that nature have been occurring on Harvard's campus I have been talking with students over the last couple of months and they have shared searing testimony about some of the things that they have experienced and I'm glad you've made that Outreach but if you were talking to a prospective uh students family a je a Jewish students's family right now could you look them in the eye and tell them that their son or daughter would be safe and feel safe and welcome on your campus we are absolutely committed to student safety and but I that question about your commitment I said could you look them in the eye right now the family of a perspective Jewish student and assure them that their son or daughter would feel safe and welcome on your campus we are taking every step to ensure their physical and their psychological safety so yes or no to my question though do you want to answer it I guess not answered your question if uh would you say that a person who is uh an avowed Neo-Nazi is someone that you would want to be part of the Harvard community those are not consistent with Harvard's values but at the same time we allow a wide birth for free expression question was would you want such a person who is an avow neonazi to be part of the Harvard Community yes or no those are not consistent with Harvard values so you would not want such a person to be part of the community those are not consistent with Harvard values would you want someone who has called for the eradication of the Jewish people uh to be part of the Harvard Community again those are not consistent with Harvard values where we are committed to making you want someone who has called for the elimination of the state of Israel to be part of the Harvard Community there is no place at Harvard for anti-Semitism but the elimination of the state of Israel someone who advocates for that is that someone you'd want to be part of the Harvard Community there is no place for anti-Semitism at Harvard you're not answering my questions very well Dr Gabe so I'll move on um you've said today that you're proud of Harvard's initial response the initial steps Harvard has taken in the immediate aftermath of October 7th but one of your PR predecessors uh Dr Larry Summers uh was anything uh but proud he said that in his 50 years of Harvard affiliation I have never been as disillusioned and alienated as I am today the Silence from Harvard's leadership has allowed Harvard to appear at best neutral towards acts of Terror against the Jewish state of Israel looking back is there anything you would have done differently in the aftermath of October 7th so to be clear about what I was doing on October 7th it was identifying whether or not we had any faculty is there anything you would have done differently had I known that the statement issued by the students would have been wrongly attributed to the university I would have spoken sooner about it but I was focused on action that weekend not statements well I appreciate you saying that but it's clear for me from your testimony uh president gay I don't think you're a person of any kind of prejudice yourself uh but you clearly seem to believe that you need to that the forces of anti-Semitism are a constituency that needs to be catered to I think that's clear from your silence from the carefully pared statements from the orwellian passive voice and unfortunately that message was heard loud and clear by the forces of anti-Semitism on your campus and has reverberated across American higher education and seeped into our broader culture so we need fundamental cultural Change on University CES thank you Mr Kylie Mr desna you're recogn for five minutes thank you madam chair U I want to thank the witnesses and just comment um I guess this is the best and worst of times from my perspective for this committee that looking at the panel and the positions you hold are not something that I could have imagined when I went to college many years ago so thank you for your vocations I mean that with all sincerity not your careers um Dr Gay I want to just mentioned last night I had a wonderful conversation with a dear friend who I started my friendship with with at your institution Gabby gords and I were both in state and local government we went to that program um and it was a wonderful experience and it was one of those examples of where uh Academia interacted with the real world in the world of action so I want to thank you for that Dr nadell um I wanted to talk to you as somebody from the Bay Area and very involved with technology for many years about its impact on our public discourse um um on hatred on anti-Semitism on racism I'm reflecting on a Berkeley Professor Michael Gold Harbor I think let me check yes uh he's the Cassandra of the internet according to the New York Times where 30 years ago he predicted that once people started to connect uh with technology that the sociology of reality and knowledge would change and I would say this hearing is a a comment to that so could you comment on social social media's impact on anti-Semitism and hatred uh both in Academia and as you see it in your research thank you for the question social media has been probably the most destructive force for spreading anti-Semitism ever imaginable um in C certainly in in my own lifetime um when a a pop star like uh Kanye West can uh put out a few messages that are anti-semitic and he has millions and millions of followers and in the wake of that Jewish students were also feeling terribly unsafe and insecure and we have seen this over and over and we have seen it harnessed not only from the left but we've also seen it harnessed from the right social media and various chat forms various different um platforms were used to create the unite the right rally in 2017 and of course the the the man who's been convicted of murdering 11 people at the Tree of Life synagogue also posted on social media that he wasn't waiting any longer and he was going in so it's been terrible and there's been so much really good research and writing on the subject matter in the last 10 years where I I'm thinking about the shallows from Nicholls car in 2005 where his research shows that globally our our skulls are actually decreasing because of how we ret conin and absorb information so all of this on the educational side and I'll ask um maybe starting with Dr Gay this is about the short-term political moment that we're in but I'm equally concerned with and I've had this conversation with the chair and the and the ranking member about what you see in education that our brains are changing because how neuroscience and everything we've learned because of research about how this works in the last 50 years but until the Congress figures out how we role in this in this C in this committee what is it doing to our to young people in Nicholas Carr's book in the chaos machine Susan Lynn a distinguished member of your faculty I just had a lovely conversation about her book about who's minding our kids I can't help but ask this question because it's part of the larger long-term problem that this committee really should be dealing with in a nonpartisan thoughtful way what do you see when it comes to cognitive development in your students so recognizing that I'm not an expert particularly on adolescent development or on social media um but will share an observation which is that um one of the things that's been laid be over the last couple of months is is how ill equipped the community is and has been to deal with dialogue in moments of Crisis and instead what is substituted for that is the social medication of dialogue it's intemperate it's ahistorical and just mean um and it's a way of engaging that has been deeply socialized through social media um and is reflexive for a lot of the students on our campus Dr corber just because I just finished a book uh reestablishing conversation by one of your faculty who talks about this yes maybe you can just briefly no I agree completely with President gay and I would say that you know social media is like a drug right it's addictive and it reinforces over and over again messages regardless of their truth and so as educational communities we need to strive for making sure our students know truth and speak to each other as human beings that beautiful thank you madam chair hopefully we can have a further discussion about that particular issue in this committee i y back thank you Mr Dan Mr Bean you recognized for five minutes thank you very much and good afternoon to you and good afternoon panelists thank you so much for being here and your testimony uh today uh there's a problem in your test testimony and I don't know if you know it you've testified that you value uh uh free speech so much that it doesn't uh harm very good thank you very it came off Madam chair um your testimony today you've all testified that uh you value free speech so long as it doesn't interfere or harm uh students you've said that you've created a a a very safe haven and and you value safety for your students the problem is the evidence doesn't support your testimony just uh as we started our meeting the videotape showed uh what's really happening on your campus uh says uh the America sees what's happening not only in your campuses but in campuses Across America and then just today we had some courageous students some of which are still in this room today courageous students that testified on your campuses uh contradictor contradicting your testimony that it's a safe space it's not a safe space imagine uh trying to be a Jewish student on campus and just going to the library going to class going to wherever on just being scared to death that's real that's real so these videos the testimony just doesn't add up here is some things that are we've seen America has seen uh there are these anti-jewish campus organizations uh called students for justice in Palestine they've been suspended and kicked off many campuses uh but none of yours since uh October 7th uh their purpose is to just harass and intimidate Jewish students into retreating from campus light Campus Life uh president gay there are numerous videos of students for justice in Palestine at Harvard they're known as Palestine solid solidarity committee uh assaulting intimidating Jewish students on your campus when Palestine solidarity committee took over University Hall instead of removing them uh your Administration gave them burritos uh president cornbluth in one of the most observed crazy campus incidents over the past two months a viral video went of a math professor at MIT handing his lecture over to mit's version of students for justice in Palestine the MIT for Palestine Coalition who invoked lies and just called for hatress and harm against Jewish students uh and he sat and watch this uh so here's your chance to tell America who's gotten fired what organizations you've kicked off your campus does anybody want to jump in and say uh we kicked them off or we've expelled students anybody want to jump in you've all also said that you value academic diversity but you have no idea how many of your professors are liberal or how many of your professors are conservative so how do you know if you don't know that that's a pretty important piece of information if you don't know that how do you know that you're academically diverse anybody jump in just go for it I just happened to have uh the Harvard Crimson which did a study uh of their uh professors on uh on Harvard campuses this is dated last year 80% of professors either identified as liberal or very liberal 80% of the of the faculty there versus 1% identified as conservative 0% identified as very conservative so 80% versus 1% president gay is that the type of academic diversity that you brag about at America's leading institution Harvard we seek to have a very diverse campus on every % versus 1% you would say that's diverse Madam chair I'd like to yield the remaining of my time to the gentlewoman from New York Miss stonic thank you Dr Gay according to the Hillel College guide the Crimson freshman survey and even Harvard's own education next journal the population of Jewish undergrads at Harvard has plummeted from roughly 25% in the 1980s to between 5 and 10% now why is that that is not data that we collect as part of the admissions process so I can't speak to those numbers or to the trajectory so what is the percentage of students uh who are Jewish at Harvard in undergraduate now we do not collect religious affiliation as part of the admissions process do you not rely on data collected by Harvard Hillel which you visited for for the first time after October 7th I'll just be honest with you when I was a freshman I enjoyed going to Harvard Hill L and had the opportunity to celebrate Shabbat dinners with my fellow undergrads the fact that it took you until after October 7th to go to Harvard Hill L is unacceptable yield back thank you Mr Moran you're recognized for five minutes thank you madam chair uh Dr Gay I'd like to direct my questions to you if if that's okay in an open letter to members of the Harvard Community that's posted on Harvard's website you stated the following uh quote anti-Semitism has no place at Harvard end quote he also said quot we are committed to doing the hard work to address the scorge end quote just a m just moments ago when representative Kylie asked you questions you reaffirmed one of those statements and said there is no place at Harvard for anti-Semitism will you now reaffirm those statements today with me yes good are these mere words or is Harvard willing to put action Behind these words we are acting on that commitment tell me how you're acting on that commitment in a very specific manner well to begin with the immediate actions that are focused on the physical security of our students in our campus there's enhanced police presence 247 threat monitoring coordination with local state and federal law enforcement and when necessary we close the gates of Harvard Yard so that outside actors are limited in their ability to use our campus as a platform when you talk about when you talk about outside actors let's talk about the inside actors so you've had a number of uh students and student organ G ations that have uh made many many anti-semitic statements in the past few months and past years frankly and it's gone uh in my opinion without any uh response from the University president gay a report by amch Initiative for the 2021 2022 Academic Year found that Harvard saw the most anti-Semitic instance that's 25 of any University surveyed you were Dean at the time correct sorry what was the date 2020 21 in 2022 yes I was I was de The Faculty of Arts and Sciences yes in 2022 after the editors of the Harvard Crimson endorsed the anti-semitic BDS movement which seeks the destruction of Israel a group of 49 faculty pinned a letter defending the Crimson editors did you ever speak out against BDS during that time the university and I am clear in our positions about BDS we do not support that position it's countered to academic freedom and at odds with the openness that is part of our strength as an institution well when you say you said earlier and you reaffirmed to me the statement there's no place at Harvard for anti-Semitism well those words really ring meaningless if those folks remain at Harvard that promote anti-Semitism would you agree we do not sanction individuals for their political views or their speech when that speech crosses into conduct that violates our behavior-based policies bullying harassment and intimidation we take action have any student students been expelled or disciplined for bullying harassment or uh these actions that you're listing I can assure you we have robust student disciplinary processes no no no no no I'm not I didn't ask about I did not ask about your process I asked if any students had been disciplined or removed from Harvard as a result of the bullying and the harassment that's taken place based on their anti-semitic views in the past months since the October 7th attack we consistently apply our policies so have any students can you give me a number has it been two 10 20 or have there been zero students that have been actually disciplined for their activity not their speech their activity students have been held to account for any episode in which they violated our behavior-based policies do you know approximately how many of those students have been held to account in your mind or is that something you're going to keep from public view I'm not asking for identification of students I just want to know how many PE how many students actually have been held to a disciplinary standard I'm happy to have my office follow up with some specific numbers if that would be helpful to you that would be very helpful I'm frankly surprised that you can't appear before this body having T going to talk about this issue and not be prepared to tell us whether or not any students or to the extent or how many have actually been disciplined for their anti-semitic behavior in the past months but you can't tell I can assure what I can assure you is that we use our policies we use our processes and we hold students to account for their behavior recently a coalition of student groups on your campus posted an open letter that placed the sole blame of the Hamas attack on Israel in fact in that letter they said quote that they thank you sir the gentleman's time expired I yield back thank you I like now to acknowledge myself for five minutes for questions I came across an opinion article in the Michigan Daily of U ofm student paper written by an anonymous source with Michigan in color the article stated in the opening paragraph The Following on October 7th Palestinians in Gaza launched a surprise attack on the col on the colonizing force of Israel one of the largest ever Palestinian Liberation operations in modern history they invaded Colonial settlements bulldozed territorial walls and captured Israeli soldiers although any violence is unconscionable the rebellion was unavoidable this makes me think of uh a recent um book written by Barry Weiss that uh seeks to Define anti-Semitism anti-Semitism successfully turns Jews into the symbol of whatever a given civilization defines as its most Sinister and threatening qualities when you look through the dark lens you can understand how under communism the Jews were the capitalists how under Nazism the Jews were the race contaminators and today when the greatest sins are racism and colonialism Israel the Jew among nations is being demonized as the last Bastion of white racist colonialism a unique source of evil not just in the region but the world whatever the role the Jews are needed for well that's the part they are forced to play and that's the part they are forced to play on your campuses which is why you're here today now I know this article did not come out on your campuses but this rhetoric is in lock step with much that we've seen on campuses today and much of the heinous uh attacks against Jews we've seen throughout the 19th and 20th centuries I want to ask for the record because many of us here on Capitol Hill here from our Republic and our consti that you are failing to create space where issues of the day are debated without fear of cancellation or aeriz uh are you all concerned about the anti-semitic rhetoric that we're seeing on these college campuses around the nation uh at each of your own and um I don't think we can State enough uh individually if you can give me maybe uh 15 to to 10 seconds um what each of you are doing just remind us of what you're doing on your college campus 10 15 seconds each of you please nothing okay great um some of your peers have turned a blind eye or even permitted anti-semitic speech by faculty students and Outsiders on campus the question today is again what you're doing about it I got silen a couple seconds ago maybe you've been given a couple um seconds to think about it um but I'll I'll make this easier would each of you commit to conducting a review of what is taught and promptly report back to this committee with recommendations on how to address these topics okay I'll take silence as a no um uh I want to uh to to uh to just say that I'm greatly concerned that students are are being taught to view certain groups as oppressors uh and and now apparently that includes uh Jewish people and uh the silence on my two direct questions I I think uh serves as as uh a glaring answer for your lack of commitment um for for standing uh standing in in opposition I fear our future and the future of our nation when oppression is is used so generally to Green Light reverse discrimination by people that hide behind your institutions and this institutional leaders uh themselves um so uh with that I'm just going to go ahead and uh and move on because I don't think you have any satisfactory answers for me um the house is currently in a series of votes and uh members need to be on the house floor as such the committee shall stand in recess until immediately following this last vote I urge my colleagues to return quickly to the hearing following votes and I appreciate the patience of our Witnesses and the audience I would ask that you all remain in your seats so our Witnesses are able to leave spe think e all now think chair put my I feel like oh good EX minutes you don't want to wait [Music] I well that wased thank you for the time a um like yeah it's on this side that's what that's what I was thinking good e for e e e get than e e e com e e for e e for for e spe e spe you okay W congratulations [Music] for for for spe for my guess is probably about 2:45 okay you got a little bit of time we're expecting to finish four votes 2:30 they're supposed to be finished on the floor at 2:30 okay and then they have been instructed to return this do you know if the Witnesses are over there I not know where we pered there well thank you I appreciate it e you spe to know for l you had a chance to leave e for for spe than you know you know what I [Music] mean Pringles thank you much welcome no e e e spe I like for out e name e e so J e about e for e e e e e right can i s i you're amazing two want I know she I remember when we got a gift for the study of brother brother think you cous brother C e you J way okay talk yeah very e need still good I guess might joural I remember this was yeah oh yeah you e I you got to stay down here e e just e e it's I said for okay committee will be in order I thank everyone for your patience while we uh recess to go vote um I now recognize U Miss Chavez darer for five minutes thank you madam chair for holding this unfortunately necessary hearing president gay McGill corn Bluth while I appreciate your testimony I am a bit confused in each of your testimonies you addressed anti-Semitism on your campuses in the present and future tense as if there's no underlying cause predating October 7th which explains why many of your students were at the were at the ready to harass threaten and attack Jewish students are we really to believe that anti-Semitism didn't exist on your campuses before the Hamas attack as presidents of the universities your jobs don't stop at fundraising and promoting academic success the cultures of your campuses have no greater influence than you and what you choose to prioritize and at an educational institution the most powerful mover of culture is the education itself the opportunities to learn about people's history provide students the best chance to challenge preconceptions biases and Inspire curiosity to understand rather than villainize at each of your schools there are numerous classes focused on Latino black indigenous and aapi history the existence of such classes is necessary speaks to your commitment to these communities the commitment to the amplification of those voices minority groups need their voices at the table the Jewish people make up 2.4% of America's population and are only 2% of the global population for the past 5,000 years they have act they have been enslaved lynched and systematically murdered during that same time they have relentlessly improved the course of humanity selflessly contributing to societies which eventually betrayed them and yet president gay your University Harvard teaches only two courses on the history and culture of the Jewish people at the undergrad level and one of those classes is focused on portraying all Jews who support Israel's existence as colonialist and racist compared to the roughly 125 classes Harvard offers on Latino black indigenous and aapi history the the discrepancy feels odd but you're not alone president Mill the University of Pennsylvania offers three classes on Jewish history to undergrads and president cornbluth MIT only offers two classes on Jewish history to your undergrad students this gives the impression that your Deans and professors view Jews as an exception that their voice as a minority group isn't worth amplifying this near eraser of Jewish history from offered courses is chilling to me Harvard MIT and the University of Pennsylvania offer its students an incredibly limited opportunity to learn about the 5,000 years of Jewish history it's no wonder so many of your students see Jews as having less Humanity than the rest of us in denying the Jewish voice a seat at the table in denying your student body Equitable access to Jewish history you have created a hostile environment for Jewish students if you provide your students real opportunities to learn about Jewish history at the same rate as you teach the history of groups there will be weight lists for those classes that would provide students the appropriate venue to discuss debate and learn it will inspire your students to have meaningful discussions amongst themselves about the full history of Jewish people president Gaye mcel and cornbluth you can assemble all the task forces you want and organize countless students discussions on the issue but I can assure you that your students especially your Jewish students those options come across as lazy and disingenuous none of you have presented Solutions which would address the causes for anti-Semitism at your schools in your testimonies I've heard no self-reflection or acknowledgement of failure president gay in your testimony you said that you you're Guided by a simple Mantra asking why not to the three of you I encourage you to think of one simple question why not teach Jewish history and Madam chair I will yield the rest of my time thank you thank you Miss shavez derer um a study a study from a 2021 study from Jay green and James Paul of the Heritage Foundation examined the social media feeds of 741 Dei Personnel at 65 universities those Dei staff interacted with almost three times as many posts about Israel as about China of those interactions about Israel 96% were critical while 62% of the interactions about China were favorable what is your reaction to the fact that the Dei staff on your campuses appear more favorably disposed to one of the most oppressive regimes in the world than they are to Israel Dr gay thank you um congresswoman our Dei office and all the Professionals in that office are committed to being a resource for the entire Campus Community um all of our students all of our faculty all of our staff their priorities ensuring that everyone feels a sense of belonging and they do that work motivated by a commitment to safety security to to well-being and not within an ideological framework thank you the time is up you can go next Mr comr you recognized for five minutes thank you madam chair many of our country's top universities and colleges are for sale that's a fact uh and our biggest foreign adversaries know it take for instance China and the Chinese Communist party they have used so-called confucious institutes on college campuses to spread CCP propaganda now we're learning about billions of dollars flooding into our universities and colleges from countries supporting terorist terrorists that hate what our country stands for for example the US Department of Education data shows that Qatar a key backer and Ally ofas is one of the largest investors in US universities it's given more than5 billion dollar to US institutions of higher education since 2001 Miss Miguel data from the Department of Education shows upen uh has received more than $1.5 billion dollars from foreign sources earlier you shared with representative steel that Penn does not accept gifts from the government of Qatar but has received gifts from alumni who reside in Qatar do you know the total amount of those gifts from alumni in Qatar thank you for the question Congressman comr we of course follow all of the laws and we accept no gifts that are inconsistent with our academic mission that would create any uh interference with doing what we do at pen uh what I know about qar is what I uh mentioned earlier is that I'm not aware of any government gifts and we have a few alumni in qar the number I have in front of me is about $2,000 a year from the donors that we have the private individuals in Guitar does pen have a policy to not accept donations or gifts from countries that Harbor support terrorists Congressman comr our uh we are Guided by the federal government on this matter and we follow all of the rules do Dr uh cor BL this report from the national uh contagian Research Institute and the institute for the study of global antisemitism and policy shows MIT received a total of $859 million from s foreign soures between 2014 and 2019 has MIT accepted money from Qatar so all all of our as I said previously all of our funds are for open publishable research we maintain full control over the research being conducted um I would have to get you the specific funding on Qatar um via the staff after this session it's publicly available information in the public record well does MIT have a policy of not accepting money from countries that Harbor or support terrorists so our review of all foreign money see is seen through the lens of National Security Economic Security and human rights so I say it no then uh do you we do you your University think it's a good policy to accept donations from countries that support Andor Harbor terrorist I've told you what our policy is thank you I ask unanimous consent to submit this report Madam chair titled the corruption of the American mind into the record without objection Dr gay how much money does Harvard receive from foreign sources that support Hamas or have links to terrorist organizations like Qatar Lebanon and the Palestinian Authority excuse me sorry Congressman Harvard has policies that govern the acceptance of gifts and contracts beginning with um uh respecting federal law which means that we don't accept gifts or contracts from entities that are on restricted lists but then we go further and um uh only accept gifts that align with our mission and that provide autonomy for our research and our faculty we have alumni all over the world and their philanthropy supports student aid and scholarships and cuttingedge research okay what does uh the Department of Education reports that Harvard has received more than $19 million from Qatar two and A5 million from Lebanon and more than one and a half million from the Palestinian Authority as of October 2023 as as University president do you think Harvard should be accepting money from countries that support terrorists again we have strict policies that govern the gifts and contracts that we accept comply fly with federal law and we will not accept gifts that do not align with our mission and retain so will you make a commitment to not accept money from countries that we know support terrorists we follow federal law the anti-Semitism on college campuses across the country including your campus has been shocking to witness and that's goes to all the witnesses I've asked questions to we we've seen the celebration of terrorism on all of your campuses including from faculty but when we see how much foreign money including from our most dangerous adversaries is going into our colleges and universities maybe we shouldn't be that surprised so you need to immediately re-evaluate the sources of foreign donations and recognize the poisonous effect that this is happening on your campuses thank you madam chair and I Y back thank you Mr com Mr Burleson you're recognized for five minutes thank you madam chair and uh thank you for the witnesses that are here today in response to the ongoing harassment of Jewish students including supporting a quote national day of resistance the Anti-Defamation League and the sent a letter to colleges and universities around the country urging them to investigate the activities of their local campus chapter of students for justice in Palestine several universities followed through with that and as a result um some universities um kick those chapters off their campuses um in in Sumit as Columbia University suspended the S SJP and the jewi Jewish voice for peace um what steps have your universities taken to address the the students for justice in Palestine Dr Gray Dr gay thank you for the question so as I indicated earlier I reject so much of the hateful and Reckless speech I don't want a long I just want to know what have you taken any steps like have you followed suit with these other universities to remove this hateful organization from your from your campus we do not punish students for their views but we hold them accountable for their conduct and behavior and any conduct that violates our rules against bullying harassment or intimidation we take action so your your answer is is no um does it not doesn't it concern you that your policies say that intimidation is a factor for for removal and yet this group clearly their their very presence is an intimidating factor to is Israeli students do you have any concerns I'm concerned about students who don't feel safe and welcome on our campus and wanting to make sure and I want to make sure that they receive all the support that they need and when other students transgress and violate our policies they will be held accountable thank you m McGill um can you tell me at your University have you taken actions to remove the students for justice in Palestine thanks for the question representative Burleson uh we uh have similar policies which is that uh any Stu any organized student group uh must comply with the rules of the university and if they have violated those rules uh they can be non-recognized okay and then Mrs corn Bluth same same question so as far as I know we do not have an SJP chapter we do have students who are um allied with you know or interested in advocating for the Palestinian cause but we are not aware of any national Links of that group the next line of inquiry has to do with the lack of reporting standards when it comes to these foreign contributions as was mentioned by my colleague I understand that Harvard and MIT are under um section s 117 investigations um a New York Post article just um recently revealed that MIT received over $859 million in foreign funding um I I think Harvard received similar numbers nearly nearly um you nearly $900 million um and as as was stated some of this money is coming from countries in the Middle East that have a history of large contributions to fund these academic centers called the Middle East studies centers are are you has Harvard taken any money to fund the Middle East study centers we receive support from a variety of sources and um our alumni are all over the world including in the Middle East who support our activities on campus well an analysis has indicated that there is a direct correlation between the universities that have received money um for these Middle East study centers and the activity of the SJP so I would I would highly encourage you to examine and and I'll ask I'll just ask it directly is it because of the money that you're receiving from these foreign countries that you're not kicking these this these hate groups off campus our donors do not influence how we run the university how we enforce our policies or how we keep our students safe than I yield the rest of my time to my colleague from New York Dr Gay does calling for the the genocide of Jews violate Harvard's rules on bullying and harassment the rules around bullying and harassment are quite specific and if the context in which that language is used amounts to bullying and harassment then we take we take action against it can you say yes to that question of does calling for the genocide of Jews violate Harvard's rules on bullying and harassment calling for the genocide of Jews is anti-Semitic so yes and that is anti-Semitic speech and as I've said and it's speech crosses into conduct and it's a yes I've asked the wit when spee conses when speech crosses into conduct we take action so is that a yes is that a yes the witness hasn't answered Madam chair is that a yes you cannot answer the question crosses into conduct we take action I'm sorry Dr Gay I have to cut you off of course uh miss Mr Williams you're recognized for five minutes thank you madam chairman have the unfortunate distinction of being a graduate of the University of Pennsylvania as well as visiting student at Harvard University for a year um the purpose of this hearing is to assess the health of our most elite and until recently esteemed educational institutions uh in this country we raised a question whether your institutions and others like them deserve to enjoy the benefits of Partnerships with our government research investment student loan guarantees taxfree status for the uh for your endowments funding for veterans to receive educations tied to their prior service like myself uh or their ongoing service it's been uh stated several times that this runs in the tens of billions of dollars across uh higher education uh perhaps even in into1 billion uh Dr Gay you've repeatedly in your testimony today have claimed that you believe in accountability uh that acts of hate are personally abhorent to you that you uh follow federal law that uh you believe all parts of your community must feel safe and secure and that education is the solution for anti-Semitism does this accurately reflect your views I've Express those views yes and those are your testimony today um how long have you been president of Harvard five months sorry five months what is your annual budget for the entire University yes about six billion pretty close to that six billion uh how many employees we have 19,000 faculty and staff and uh how long is the how large is the university endowment it is just over $50 billion and how long has Harvard been in existence 387 years 337 years 87 87 sorry I cut you by 50 there uh you've said that education is the solution all of you agreed actually that education is the solution for anti-Semitism yet your educational institution under your leadership and previous leaders is seething with hateful and threatening anti-semitic demonstrations but these are only as I mentioned these are only against the Jewish students no one else just Jews at your school yet uh you say you believe in accountability should the federal government keep shoveling money and privilege to institutions like yours that fail so profoundly in their mission your mission is to educate education's the solution you have 387 years and you've arrived at this place of violent anti-Semitism and hate why should the federal government continue to uh partner with you in in such a failed accomplishment or lack of accomplishment the federal University partnership is not only a critical source of the success of All American higher education well maybe we should redirect it to the ones that are because there are other universities that are succeeding I'm trying to get at the heart of if education is the solution you don't seem to be accomplishing that solution even though you've had a 30 387 year runup to Stamp Out anti-Semitism what happened is it leadership we have work to do to build the community that our students and our faculty it's I'm looking backwards I'm saying how did you arrive here if education is your mission and anti-Semitism is your result how did you arrive here let me let me help a 100 years ago Harvard University of Pennsylvania other Ivy League schools actually publicly and actively began restricting Jewish enrollment now I'm proud to say that Syracuse University in my district resisted this trend and did not Implement those kinds of uh um uh policies but today we actually see the fruit of those decision those decisions and it seems to me that the leadership that we need needs moral Clarity to understand the moment that we're in and I'm not really hearing that um frankly from anyone uh Miss Miguel how long have you been the President of University of Pennsylvania just just under a year and a half and the budget and employees there uh about 12 billion because we have a very large Health System we have about 45,000 employees the um the endowment please about 20 billion do you not have enough resources to complete your your mission your stated goal of Education we have many resources that we invest in the education of our 30,000 student students so if education's the mission and education's the solution how did youen arrive at this horrible place that actually I'm ashamed to be an alumni of your University I'm very sorry to hear that Congressman uh I'm not alone we have uh we have work to do I agree well I keep hearing that I think you have a need for leadership or need of federal intervention to cut off the resources that allow this continued field this mission that's failed to continue I you'll back thank you Miss how you're recognized for 5 minutes thank you madam chair thank you to the witnesses um for testifying today I want to just say how frustrated I am that this hearing is even necessary I would be naive to recogn not to recognize though anti-Semitism on our University campuses uh including my home state as you may know this fall two members of the Indiana University student government published a resignation letter due to the blatant anti-Semitism of the student body president according to their firsthand testimony this student body president was intentionally neglecting the experience of Jewish students on campus by not only refusing to meet or work with Jewish students but by actively ignoring the voices of those who tried to bring attention to their issues and the concerns for the well-being of their Jewish students it's especially appalling when we recognize that 10% of Indiana University's student body is Jewish campus life in the United States has become a daily trial of intimidation and insult for our Jewish students a hostile environment that began with statements from Pro Palestinian student organizations justifying terrorism has now rapidly spiraled into death threats and physical attacks leaving Jewish students alarmed and vulnerable at least 124 anti-semitic incidents have been reported on campuses since October 7th and that's likely a severe undercount the response to this has been empty rhetoric words have been weak action has been slow no action has resulted in Jewish students feeling safe or welcome this is an example as why I'm an original co-sponsor of a congressional resolution condemning the support of Hamas Hezbollah and other terrorist organizations at our institutions of higher education we will not tolerate the creation of a hostile environment for our Jewish students faculty and staff on college campuses uh if you won't do it then we will take action ourselves uh Madam chair I'd like to yield the balance of my time to the gentlewoman from New York Dr corn BL does m at MIT does calling for the genocide of Jews violate mit's code of conduct or rules regarding bullying and harassment yes or no if targeted at individuals not making public statements yes or no calling for the genocide of Jews does not constitute bullying and harassment I have not heard calling for the genocide for Jews on our campus but you've heard transfer into f I've heard chance which can be anti-semitic depending on the context when calling for the elimination of the Jewish people so those would not be according to the mit's code of conduct or rules that would be um investigated of as harassment if pervasive and severe Miss Migel at pen does calling for the genocide of Jews violate Penn's rules or code of conduct yes or no if the speech turns into conduct it can be harassment yes I am asking specifically calling for the genocide of Jews does that constitute bullying or harassment if it is directed and severe or pervasive it is harassment so the answer is yes it is a context dependent decision congresswoman it's a context dependent decision that's your testimony today calling for the genocide of Jews is depending upon the context that is not bullying or harassment this is the easiest question to answer yes Miss Migel so is your testimony that you will not answer yes if it uh is if the speech becomes if the speech becomes conduct it can be harassment yes conduct meaning committing the act of genocide the speech is not harassment this is unacceptable Miss Migel I'm going to give you one more opportunity for the world to see your answer does calling for the genocide of Jews violate Penn's code of conduct when it comes to bullying and harassment yes or no it can be harassment the answer is yes and Dr Gay at Harvard does calling for the genocide of Jews violate Harvard's rules of bullying and harassment yes or no it can be depending on the context what's the context targeted as as an individual targeted as at an individual it's targeted at Jewish students Jewish individuals do you understand your testimony is dehumanizing them do you understand that dehumanization is part of anti-Semitism I will ask you one more time does calling for the genocide of Jews violate Harvard's rules of bullying and harassment yes or no anti-semitic rhetoric when and is it anti-semitic rhetoric anti-semitic rhetoric when it crosses into conduct that amounts to bullying harassment intimidation that is actionable conduct and we do take action so the answer is yes that calling for the genocide of Jews violates Harvard code of conduct correct again it depends on the context it does not depend on the context the answer is yes and this is why you should resign these are unacceptable answers across the board Mr Scott you're recognized for five minutes thank you um freedom of speech protects not just popular speech I've heard many of you refer to that can you comment on what speech is protected and what speech is not protected start Dr Gay speech is protected um and that ex that protection extends even to speech we find objectionable and offensive and and even outrageous it's when speech crosses into conduct that violates our very clear policies around bullying harassment intimidation now that it becomes actionable now when it's targeted and creates imminent threats of violence that can actually be criminal yes the title six standard isn't that it doesn't require all of that you're can to just have a um um you can have much less of a standard to create a violation of title 6 when do you know what is a title six standard for when speech violates title six and creates a hostile environment I cannot recite that from memory do anybody know from the kinds of things that would constitute a title six violation yeah hostile environment that prevents the students from uh attaining their educational um acquisition um students have a right to feel safe on campus uh with the standard of a hostile environment apply to all students or just Jewish students all students um Dr Miguel A lot has been said about some of the speakers that have been invited who invites the speakers Congressman it varies it might be a student organization it might be a faculty member it might be a staff member um it might be my office well does your office always control who the speakers what speakers are invited no there's no pre-approval process for the speakers who are invited it's uh quite decentralized and if some group student group invited somebody that the um university found offensive what happens well we don't prevent a speaker from coming to can C campus followed following the guidance of the United States constitution based on the views that we think they're going to express uh we sometimes condemn those views if they're deeply inconsistent with our values but we don't censor or prevent speakers from coming based on the views even if they're offensive and Dr Gay you said several students are are partic subject to disciplinary actions typically how long does that disciplinary action take to be completed so the process we try to move with all deliberate speed um but it varies depending on the complexity of the incident it could be a matter of days or weeks or could be a bit longer than that and the con the range of consequences vary but up to in including um expulsion from Harvard uh several comments have been made that the campuses are full of anti-Semitism and that's the only problem on campus can um the university president's comment on that it is not the only problem on campus um it's C it's particularly acute at this moment um and as I've mentioned before students have offered searing testimony about what they've been experiencing um but it's not just anti-Semitism it's also islamophobia and um and frankly just hostility to individuals who are visibly Muslim um or Arab or Palestinian um and then we also have other student communities that feel marginalized um not just in this moment but have been struggling to feel a sense of belonging at Harvard for some years including students of color M Miguel I would describe very much the same experience at the University of Pennsylvania as Dr Gay described and blood racism islamophobia anti lgbtq sentiment one thing if I might add about free speech on campus with these issues is that the best way to fight negative speech is more speech to have speakers and individuals who fight anti-Semitism and can speak to our students on campus thank you you back thank you um Dr Fox I want to think I Witnesses for participating in today's hearing protecting students from discrimination and harassment as to fostering a safe and welcoming campuses regrettably following the October 7th attacks college campuses have experienced a disturbing rise in incidents of anti-Semitism and islamophobia it's uh great to have the opportunity here directly from campus leaders on what they are doing to be more Pro proactive and prevent incidences of violence and harassment on campus and I applaud President Biden's leadership and the administration for actively helping Institution protect students as part of the White House's National strategy to combat combat anti-Semitism under the president's Direction the Department of Education has provided additional guidance to colleges and universities on how to uphold their obligation under title six of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and better address anti-Semitism islamophobia and other forms of discrimination on campus they've already opened over about 15 title six investigations and the recent incidences on campus since October 7th and finally as members of Congress we also have the responsibility to discrim to condemn discrimination as we see it and we should fully fund the office of civil rights so that they will have the resources to investigate these cases thank you madam chair and you're back thank you Mr chairman Mr ranging member um postsecondary education has never been held in such low esteem in our country as it is today indeed I I do not refer to colleges and universities any longer as higher education because it's my opinion that higher order skills are not being taught and learned and I think today's hearing indicates that I think Mr Williams was on to something in his line of of uh questioning about why are we here at this stage when you all talk about education being the answer to the problems now I want to remind everyone why we're here I started the hearing by recognizing the students we have in the audience today you're the ones bearing the brunt of the hate that is festering on our c campuses you're the reason we're calling attention to these issues and will continue holding College leaders accountable for failing to protect you you're Heroes and I thank you for your courage one of the students here today is Talia KH she's an undergraduate alumni of MIT and currently a graduate student there and she wrote a letter to the committee I request unanimous consent to submit her full letter from for the record without objection I encourage all the members to read it unfortunately I don't have time to read the whole thing but I want to give you a sample quote I'm a Jewish student the daughter of a Jewish mother and an Afghan Muslim father I'd like to bring to your attention my perspective as a Jewish student currently immersed in an extremely toxic atmosphere at Mi it unquote she goes on to describe a Litany of violence harassment and bullying against Jewish students on mit's campus and in action by the MIT Administration she then concludes with a plea for help from the MIT Administration quote unfortunately I have been put in charge of working to keep MIT students feeling safe I have been in put in charge of advocating for hundreds of frightened students afraid of Retribution I want to stop being told about the most recent antisemitic incident and feeling like I have to push and P push and push to report it even though nothing ever gets done this should not be my job Sally corn Bluth please let me be a student again it is your job to keep Jewish students safe not mine unquote Talia thank you for sharing your ordeal with this committee Talia happens to be a student at MIT unfortunately her story isn't unique to that campus horrific acts of hate violence and intimidation are happening at the University of Pennsylvania Harvard and institutions all over the country and institutional leaders are failing to meet the movement with courage Clarity or decisive action I also ask unanimous consent to submit for the record of Wall Street Journal oped from this past Sunday by Lance Morrow the oped is called quote the new anti-Semitism is the oldest kind end quote without objection this oped is cleare eyed about the threat we Face talking about the anti-Semitism of the post-war era Morrow said quote America's anti-s semi ites in those days were more fools than monsters unquote then he says quote the anti-Semitism that is poured forth onto the country's streets and campuses in the Autumn of 2023 is a different thing a reversion to a politics of aggressive Unapologetic hate of course the new Jew haters especially young people on Camp cuses think of themselves as perfectly virtuous what is a thousand times worse they think of their Jew hatred as righteous it's morally fashionable among them unquote and this brings me back to the beginning presidents gay Migel and corn blo you have real and important practical challenges the these are real students sitting here and they need to be protected but you also have a moral challenge it is fashionable among too many members of your campus communities to hate Jews it is ideological acceptable as you do the Practical work of protecting your campus you must also do the rhetorical work of changing hearts and Minds that's your job as a camp president that means being willing to risk your job to speak truth clearly consistently and unapologetically even when the Jew haters turn their hate to you we'll now be watching and I genuinely hope for the sake of our nation you will rise to meet the challenge without objection there being no further business the committee stands adjourned for e oh thank you so much all right

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Id: LoPUWpdsoxY

Length: 302min 8sec (18128 seconds)

Published: Tue Dec 05 2023