Church Splits? | Doug Wilson

so Doug's new right thing to say I think my church is beginning to split my husband and I know of meetings being held to test support for those who wish to split from the current eldership our loyalties would lie with those wishing to split is it lawful for us to participate in these meetings okay so flying into a situation like this blind not knowing anything any of the details I would say taking the law of averages probably not okay okay it's if you're having secret meetings about dividing from the eldership that doesn't have a good look just on the face of it although I could construct a situation where it would be lawful it would be lawful and appropriate okay it usually doesn't run that it usually doesn't run that way so how about what would be the circle or how would you conduct yourself in such a way that you could go to one of those meetings and so the criteria the two criteria that I would say would if if you could answer these two questions appropriately then it will it could be lawful to participate in the meeting one is what is the magnitude of the issue how is it the color of paint in the church a nursery is it the fact that the associate minister has too much of a nasal tone and is preaching and you know in those cases it it doesn't rise to that level you don't organize a revolt over things like that if if the session is gone has gone wobbly on something like the reavoice issue you know or homosexuality or you just heard that someone's some lady is going to preach the following Sunday or yeah and you think how on earth that has happened so the magnets a issue that rises to a certain level of magnitude that's one criteria one of the criteria the other one is have less drastic means of appeal been made to the existing elders if they have and they just clam but they'd say you know where the religious professionals don't bother us if they're not open to input from if they're not open to honest open lawful input from the congregation and if it rises to a certain level then have all the secret meetings you want okay so so your your churches let's go with the reavoice thing your church is actively embracing or refusing to stand against something that is right I'm pretty destructive you've tried to have the conversation with the elders the elders just aren't entertaining it then it does seem like you for you to begin meeting with Congress about well what's what's our plan going to be that's a legitimate option let's say let's say that the question is this is the one that I would normally hear would be the church just isn't ministering to me the preaching isn't doing it and I don't see the pastor really ministering to me and I feel like we're just dying on the vine yeah I'm not feeling I'm not being fed by Christ anymore yeah yeah so the issue there it seems to me has to do with one of my daughters said there's a difference between not being fed and going on a hunger strike you know there I would run an inventory before are you tweaked about something did someone hurt your feelings are you backing are you withdrawing because are you not hearing Christ are you not being fed by Christ from a preacher that fed you weekly for five years and now it's just happening not just not happening anyway the chances are outstanding that something happened that jaundiced you okay now if let's say you've got a point or let's say the spirit left the preacher and that's the kind of thing that if you had to do something I would try to leave the church you know it's quiet a way is that's not something to organize a revolt that's really not something to organize around because you can even if you're not personally annoyed or angry at the person as soon as you have a meeting over that issue and the personality is the issue you're gonna get people joining the revolt who have all the wrong motives and they're just gonna make a mess do you think you should have spoken to an older before leaving in that situation yes I think I believe that you should leave like a Christian so if you go to the eldership and say I believe that the Lord is calling us to to another place to another fellowship but we haven't made our final decision yet I'm willing to receive counsel and hear what you have to say on this basically be as open and as honest as you can be I've had people leave our church in a god-honoring way and I so I would have no complaint about their decision-making process and they came straight to me and they talked to me and it's really easy to say god bless you guys but if someone lets a sermon got a little too close to home and someone got their feelings hurt or the wife got their feelings hurt and they used to sit in the second row and then three Sundays later you see they're halfway back in the church and then then then they're all the way in the back row and they're in the back row for a couple of months whatever's happening it's not spiritually healthy even even if the ground for leaving is legitimate it's not being done the right way do you think there's some sort of ecclesiastical equivalent of the doctrine of the lesser magistrate so so in the civil order we don't have the right to just revolt against our civil government right there's the lesser magistrate the sheriff or the governor or the mayor yeah so in bringing a concern to the church you really you you need to work through the church leadership unless the church leadership has out now disqualified itself or out-and-out rejected all Appeals so if if someone says I've got these concerns we love the people here we'd rather not leave and you and this family goes to their parish elder and says could you this concerned at the at the session meeting and and give me throw throw me a rope or give me some help and if he says no I'm not gonna do it and then you're kind of stuck you're kind of stuck but I would check every I would check every door I guard your heart when you're leaving a church it's your heart that means guarding probably and and you would change the way you leave on if the if it's because you have you see sin and the leadership it's one thing if you see lack of giftedness in the leadership it's a it's a right and oftentimes christians think that in order to justify leaving I've got to find sin somehow uh-huh right and that's why these situations escalate so so that I can justify leaving now you could leave you can leave a church in a non schismatic non divisive way there's no requirement that you go to first Memorial as opposed to second Memorial right there's no bill you and you if you leave in a godly righteous way you're not being divisive at all but if you think the only reason the only grounds you could have for separating from this congregation is if somebody sold their soul to the devil then you start finding how the ways in which they did and you make things up and then you're the problem okay thank you

Channel: Canon Press

Views: 4,454

Rating: 4.8987341 out of 5

Keywords: doug wilson, canon press, church split, church splits, douglas wilson, ask doug, question, answer, answers

Id: X82231-Tmzw

Length: 8min 9sec (489 seconds)

Published: Fri Jul 05 2019