Christine Caine | Listening to Our Bodies and Learning from Jesus | Dr. Anita Phillips

on a day when I'm struggling with something in my everyday life or some pain that seems to have been going on for a long time or an unanswered question I remind myself that there is a map of my body in Genesis 2 and that if my God can do that he will be able to do this other thing widely recognized as a thought leader at the intersection of mental health faith and culture my dear dear friend Dr Anita holds degrees from the University of Maryland and Regent University and has completed a post-doctoral fellowship at the John's Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health listen you have got more degrees and training than almost anybody I know so you know Dr Anita I I love you so dearly and you've spent your career looking at the intersections of mental health spirituality and culture just some very light subjects there and um you know would you talk to us just a little bit about how you see these three things uh working in tandem with one another well they are all absolutely connected just like our bodies are absolutely connected you know at no moment would you ask someone are you breathing right now or is your heartbeating right now we would never consider that right but we're so used to studying ourselves in Parts but we know that our circulatory system is delivering oxygen to our respiratory system and everything works together and so our faith our spirituality our um emotional and mental health and then what's happening in our bodies are all working together and then the cultural perspectives that shape us impact all of those things as well and so by saying I work at this intersection is really just saying I'm looking at the whole person and that's not something that we're used to doing I just need to jump in there okay why wouldn't we be used to doing that I mean this is all your world and so I'm thinking I'm not educated or trained in that world but I would think that's a no-brainer is it not an you would think so but we're not educated I know but we're not educated that way first of all right you got mental health professional psychiatrists cardiologists respiratory Specialists we're not trained that way we go to school we major in one thing and we get really deep into that one thing and we can start to have tunnel vision and not recognize how much it's impacted by other things and I think that we do the same thing sometimes as ministers as well we are looking at the spiritual perspective and that's what we're focused on but then we can fail to realize how much our spiritual lives are impacted by our bi by our biology or by the culture where we live and we study the context of where for example scripture was written but we don't always study the context in which we're reading it we're not aware of how the different pieces influence one another and so it's okay for us to specialize in what we specialize in and understand our role but instead of worrying about whether we're right or wrong I think we all need to be looking at how our perspective is limited and then connect with other perspectives to see the whole picture so when did it drop for you that all of these things are connected because you could have easily with all your psychology training you could have just gone down one trk I could have but my brain just doesn't work that way so I'm really fortunate God gave me this crazy brain and I've have always had a gift for identifying patterns in disparate places so when I was I think about 14 when I first learned the that E equals MC s means that if you move a solid object at the speed of light squared it will turn into energy essentially it disappears and when I saw that formula and learned that in science class my first thought was oh that's the scientific explanation for the Rapture because the Bible says we will be changed in a moment in a twinkling of an eye that's light so I was like oh light squared our bodies would be moving that fast means they would disappear so maybe that's how the Rapture happens and this scientist just labeled the process but God would have had to have built a process into his creation to make this happen like I was like 14 and that was my thought in science class that day so I do have a bit of a r you to because I'm trying to think of 14 maybe I was trying to fix my braces or something I don't know what you were doing Rachel in 14 literally I'm just thinking like at 14 I was trying to figure out like how do I make my hair not be frizzy and Dr is like oh the Rapture here's how it's scientific like we like you are so much smarter than me and I'm so aware of it it's just a weird thing I got going on I'm not neurotypical and so I do identify patterns a lot but I also then grew up in this incredibly spiritually focused environment my mom was always talking about God and scripture in ways that went beyond rules and behavioral regulations but she really believe that there was an explanation for everything in the spirit realm and that we should look at everything that God made and the things that he did and so she helped to shape that but that was a cultural element right so my mom is what we would call afro indigenous she's part black and part native American and so even her perspective on God um being larger and connected to Creation like I hear the indigenous American influence in the way that she talks about God I didn't understand that at the time but I do now and so that's how culture got pulled into my perspective because different cultural perspectives emphasize different aspects of God's character and that's why only together can we know the depth and the breadth and the height and the width of God because everybody has a piece and so I find culture interesting as well because it influences what we pay attention to and what we prioritize over other things yeah you know one of my favorite things about the way that you connect dots and the way that you communicate is the way that you DEC compartmentalize things that that we as like a broader culture we are so insistent on compartmentalizing I feel like sometimes compartmentalization is even celebrated like oh I can just leave that at the door and be fully present here for this and but what we're saying is I'm ignoring this whole part of myself so that I can be present in this right how how would you tell somebody to begin um the decompartmentalization [Music] I think that it begins with focusing on being in your body now I know that sounds all F FR but one of the things that really has been necessary to this unnatural compartmentalization of ourselves has been a disconnection from our bodies and whether that means keep on going goal chasing achievement chasing no matter how tired you are you know the whole I'll sleep when I'm dead what we're really saying is disconnect from what your body is telling you about what you need and keep going instead or put your feelings aside and just trust God we're being told to disconnect from our emotions and that that will help us with our faith well emotions are bodily experiences and so we have to disconnect from our bodies in a way to ignore our emotions and so when I say reconnect sit with be in your body just taking the time to listen to what this space that we live in is saying and doing and trying to communicate to us that we'll actually start to notice that a lot of things are happening at once I I can quietly listen until my own heartbeat is audible to me until my own breathing is palpable to me and realizing all of those things are happening at once because our discontent really is about this internal battle where where we're going to give our attention rather than a holistic approach to how we need to be well so I don't know if that answered the question you know I think I I I love all this and I'm thinking um your new book in The Garden within you know the Garden within you um and congratulations Miss New York Times best seller and it is just and and so deserves it I mean I got to read an early manuscript and have had the privilege of having so many conversations with you so I cannot wait till Book 2 3 4 five because it's like it is endless from you know the woman that at 14 knows what EMC squ means let me just let me tell everybody there are a lot more books to come a lot more but as long as I've known you um Your Capacity to see things in Scripture that once which is just brilliant gift of a teacher and and prophet and pastor and all the things but um once we we see it it's like oh how could I never have seen that except we've spent thousands of you never having seen it so you know this book in particular um just the way you draw God's kind of intricate you know God God's design um of humanity and how it Mar uh mirrors the Garden of Eden I mean the way you draw all of that I I probably I think I very seriously have read your book at least four times because it's just got so much in it and um I recommend it to everyone because the fact is that what is it that you see or found about Eden that really has affected your own Journey towards spiritual and mental health and that you hope is helping other people through this book for me when I realized that the Garden of Eden and Gardens in general were actually God's lesson plan for how we're supposed to live literally spiritually emotionally mentally and biologically I was so Changed by that the idea that questions that we're asking now about mental health and illness and wellness that God knew we'd be asking those questions in 2023 and God wrote an answer for us during creation like every single thing we need really is already here he did give it to us and so it inspired my faith in so many other areas because on a day when I'm struggling with something in my everyday life or some pain that seems to have been going on for a long time or an unanswered question I remind myself that there is a map of my body in Genesis 2 and that if my God can do that he will be able to do this other thing so it it just brings me back to Baseline about how huge and magnificent God is oh absolutely and everyone's gonna have to get the book to see the diagrams yeah you have to but you got to see the the the illustrations and and but Genesis chapter 2 really does both describe Eden and how our biology works Works which helps us know how to be well and one of the challenges is that we always want to figure out what one scripture means it only means this it can't mean anything else it's blasphemy if you say it does and it's like how can you limit God like that it's it's very powerful I mean I I okay one of the things that I mean there's many things but one of the things you really bring out is the importance of our emotions as we're tending to our hearts now I'm Greek so I get it okay so for me we're passionate but when I came particularly into certain streams of the Protestant church it was almost like I was I was told to put those aside that that was just a Greek cultural thing Christine and you know just because your family's all my big F Greek Wedding and very loud and very expressive um but sort of a almost like a more reformed and civilized view of God is that I would put all of those things away and I wouldn't feel um and it's almost like your your books giving me permission to feel and to go oh oh it's okay to be my big F Greek life and God wired me up this way and actually they say things you know that that wiring actually um helps me not only connect to God but but really uh can show me when something's wrong or something needs tending to I think I found a lot of that I found it's okay to be me by reading your book yes yes all of us are created with our emotional lives at the center and that always throws Christians off cuz they like no your spiritual life's at the center but when we realize that we are Gardens and Jesus gives us this in the parable the se he tells us that the SE goes out to sew seeds and that the soil is the heart and just in case we think he's making some strange metaphor he goes on to clarify by describing the different soil types in terms of emotion he talks about the Stony ground being having joy in it first when the seed is received but then when anger gets in there the plant is is destroyed and anxiety weeds growing out of soil that has fear in it I mean he's using emotional descriptors so we know that Jesus is talking about our emotional space so we receive the seeds into our emotional space and when we think about our Salvation experience who gave their life to Jesus stoically for whom was their salvation experience not emotional who came to the altar like yeah whatever I mean if you say so I I'll try this Jesus thing sure I'll change my whole life lay down my sinful habits and restrict myself why not we were like yes we something stirred our hearts to believe there was more peace over there more freedom over there healing less pain it was an emotional decision for every one of us and that's why we have to remember that Jesus wants to be in our hearts and then we get them in our hearts and then we scramble to live in our heads and it's because we are all being influenced by a culture that even in Greek culture where emotion is Express emotional expression is okay but when it comes to decision making it's supposed to be excluded totally totally and so that's the part is that people want to say well it's okay to feel but they it can't be um involved in your decision-making but it is involved in your decision- Making Science has proved that biologically 90% of our decision- making is infused by our emotional state at the time including that salvation decision we all made and that that is actually guidance for us that it is our hearts and our emotional space that actually makes us distinct from every other creature not our why do you think we've been especially in some streams of the church world trying to quench the emotional side like why well one culture so we have to look at the cultures that have most influenced Western Christianity we're talking about British culture Dutch culture German culture not exactly like love them all but not exactly your most like em expressive dho people right and so that influen our culture influences how we see God and so if we think that being stoic and not expressing emotion is the right way to be we then Shake shape a God that looks like that and then we say this is the God we should emulate and so very early on early church western church fathers Incorporated a lot of Plato's perspectives the philosopher Plato and the stoics and their view was that emotion was problematic that it was irrational and so the earliest definitions of Christian Perfection were infused with stoicism and with Plato's work and so that said if you are going to be perfect you put emotion aside and they made that the definition of Christian P um Perfection or one of the definitions even though Jesus was incredibly emotionally expressive in public he expressed intense emotions he described them he tells the disciples in Gethsemane stay with me I am sorrowful unto death he asks for company he cries at lazarus's tomb he's flipping tables in Jerusalem and the temple I mean Jesus is super emotionally expressive super intense in public never repents never backtracks never says wow I shouldn't have done that and it's so we're not even looking at the Jesus we're saying we're going to be conformed to but he showed us how to live the perfect human life and that involved expressing his emotional pain even when he knew that the outcome was going to be victorious he still expressed of the process he knew Lazarus was G to be raised from the dead but he cried he knew that he was going to be raised from the dead but he still begged his father to save him from this ending from this death so Jesus never failed to Express the pain of the process even when he had faith for the outcome all of our cultural limitations on how emotions should play into our lives could be freed if we would just really pay attention to Jesus yeah I know I know what it's like to be on the other side of your Brilliance for the first time so I can like feel one of our listeners being like Oh my gosh there's so much like it's it's like sitting in front of a fire hydrant with with ADD cup because you have this like spiritual gift of connecting dots and reading between the lines when we don't even know that we should be it's it is so it's so freeing to listen to you and I know there's a phrase that I've heard you use before when you said it's not complicated it's just hard I don't know if I read it or where I heard you say it but that that stuck with me so much um the first time I heard you say that and so to to our listener who feels maybe a little bit overwhelmed because there there is so much truth in what you're saying how would you help them begin this journey and and simplify because like what I'm not telling you to simplify I'm saying like make us uh make it not complicated because it is it is just hard yeah when we have believed a certain thing for a long time or we're really invested in a perspective I mean if you've been restraining your emotions or beating yourself up for having emotions for your whole life and then suddenly you find out oh my gosh I didn't have to be doing this and I don't have to do it anymore that is jarring and that's the hard part and so when something is hard like that we complicate it instead well could that be correct maybe not let me find let me look up let me read and it's like no it's right on the page there it is and so I think what I would recommend is when something seems very complicated to ask yourself what's hard about it what hard feeling is involved do you feel afraid that if you Embrace this very clear obvious truth it's going to mean losing something valuable or walking into an ambiguous situation or being unsure for a little while because when I say it's hard it's usually meaning that the transition is going to involve some emotional pain so when you're looking at all the complications which is US Gathering all the facts and making liabilities and Pros and cons list and all the things that we think make it complicated stop and ask yourself emotionally what's hard about this because once you see that piece then it's like h i don't need to do another analysis on whether I need to be in this relationship or not it's just a really hard thing to walk away I don't need to do another analysis on whether God called me to do X Y and Z it's just really hard for me to embrace um that God would choose me like what is it that feels hard just go straight to that we're all just pausing because it's like yes and amen which is very really but at what point should we be for one of a better phrase I don't even know if I'm going to get corrected by you right now but managing our emotions is there a place for that what we want to do is have our body our nervous system which is responsible for our emotional lives to be healthy enough to regulate it so when we talk about regulation because people are struggling with this CU people are embracing emotions they'll be like you're right emotions are good but they're not facts emotions are great to have but control them you know it's like there's this butt at the end we just can't believe that really this is okay but again just look at how Jesus expressed himself that being said when I talk about regulation emotional regulation think about the water system in your house when everything's running well there it's regulated I can turn it up I can make the water more intense pressure intense when I need to I can turn it back down sometimes I need the water to be cold and gentle maybe I'm washing something that's a delicate item sometimes I need it to be hot and strong I'm scrubbing something on I'm scrubbing the kitchen floor or a greasy pot so my capacity to regulate the water in my house is great and everyone knows what happens when it stops working when the shower suddenly goes from hot to cold really fast or you can't get the pressure you need that's how a lot of us feel with our emotions like they're not doing what we need them to do at the time we need them to do it but I want you to think about regulation like the water system in your house the plumbing system and not control because control is how I approach something that is inherently bad that I must brace myself against and that's not how I feel when I turn the shower on in the morning that's not how I feel when I'm filling the pool I'm just utilizing water in the way that it needs to be utilized at the time and so if you are disregulated then that might mean that when something upsets you you have a hard time returning back to a state of equilibrium as would be healthy it's you maybe you stay heightened and so instead of trying to control that what we want to do is learn how to increase our nervous systems capacity to regulate it so now you'll have to get the book for that um but sometimes if we've been traumatized as children especially our regulation is damaged and that is a literal biological effect and not a I need to think my way out of this effect and so we may need to um do the work that's necessary for our nervous system system to heal and that's not just trauma therapy but also rest the amount of rest the amount of um activities that we're allowing to demand um be demanding on us whether we take time regularly to do some deep breathing spend time in nature get the sleep we need the nutrition that we need the relationships that we need to be in that are healthy all of those things contribute to the regulation of our emotions but the key is that it is a biological process that Reg ation not a thought process you can't think your way there okay so in the Garden of Gethsemane when they come to take Jesus and Peter pulls out the sword and cuts off the ear what is that what when they were in the garden at the most heightened moment of Jesus's pain Jesus is so present with his emotional pain we know he's sweating blood that is a physical manifestation of fear the emotion of fear coursing through one's body so Jesus was very present with how he was feeling he said he was sorrowful unto death the Bible describes him as sore amazed in the King James version which means terrified he but he never tried to escape that space and he went to his father fully feeling all of those feelings in the meantime the three disciples including Peter who were closest to Jesus fell asleep in the Book of Luke it says that Jesus found them sleeping for sorrow and so they attempted to distance themselves from their emotional pain of hearing their savior just a Stones throw away crying with strong crying in tears do you think they didn't hear right the Bible says strong crying in tears they had to have heard their savior crying and now they have a their emotional pain was so great that they went to sleep I have slept for sorrow I'm sure the two of you have had an experience where you SLE for sorrow so they they that was an escape mechanism they couldn't scroll their phones or binge net so they they went to sleep and in going to sleep they did not watch that's in that segment Jesus says Watch and Pray watch means remain aware and then pray they didn't watch they didn't want to be aware of where they were emotionally they didn't want to feel that so they went to sleep and then when they woke up they easily Peter easily was entering into temptation because he had not stayed emotionally aware and allowed himself to be regulated Jesus was regulated he expressed it he let it out he was honest with his father about it the he did not try and escape the blood pressure that was opening up the blood vessels and letting blood out of his forehead and God sent an angel to stand with him because what do we need more than anything when we're scared company comfort someone yeah company and because his his disciples were overwhelmed by their own sorrow he received the comfort from an angel Paul writes that Jesus was heard in that moment in that he feared and every place in scripture where it says that a prayer was heard that prayer was answered so it's like if Jesus still got crucified then how was his prayer answered he was heard in that he feared he needed comfort in his fears and so God sent an angel to keep them company and when we are with another person or entity that brings us peace our body calms down that's why it helps us have people that we love close to us when we're scared and we feel better because they hold our hand or hug us or look Us in the eye and so once Jesus was regulated he stands up powerful walks out of the garden says I am he and people and the soldiers are slain by his voice and Peter's cutting off ears and flying all over the place not because emotion is bad but because he wasn't willing to be emotionally aware and emotionally present and so then when the pressure was on he reacts and then Jesus just puts the E back on because he's like I know what he's regulated which is do you think light of what's Happening all around the world now and just it's so overwhelming it's Relentless you know we we had Co we've got Ukraine war we've got what's happening now in the Middle East I me it's just this nonstop do you think people are sleeping just because they're overwhelmed do you think that's a big part of it it's like you know yes absolutely they're sleeping um they are drinking um more than just that evening glass of wine that some Christians say they can have they're drinking more we have more um diagnoses of depression have spiked diagnoses of anxiety disorders have spiked we have seen more people relapsing Who had who had been um had freedom from their addictions for a long time because we're trying to regulate how we feel that is a bodily experience and let me explain this if you are about this regulation because it's chemical when you are distressed when you are depressed and you feel like eating something what do you choose I ice cream cheesecake frien yeah right sugar no one has ever said I feel so depressed I need a boneless skinless chicken breast right now like if I don't get lettu yeah lettuce and some balsamic vinegarette right now I'm gonna lose it like no one has ever said that so we don't we realize it without realizing it that our emotions are bodily experiences and one of the ways that we try to regulate them is through chemicals so whether that's heroin or cheesecake we're trying to alter our body's chemistry in a way that brings us into another emotional state and that's what we call regulation we're trying to regulate the flow but you can do that more in a more healthy way you can do that by connecting to someone you care about you can do that by breathing exercises you can do that by going for a run you can do that by um sitting and meditating so making sure you drink water and eat healthy food there are other ways for me to connect with my body for that regulation do you think that um expressive worship is a part of that too absolutely absolutely and this is why it just makes me crazy when some members of the body look down on other members of the body who Express their Worship in what they would say emotional terms oh well that's just emotion again none of us even got saved without emotion right but yes when we sing together um first of all singing activates What's called the Vegas nerve I don't want to get too biological but this the nerve that is the longest nerve in our body and Central to the parasympathetic nervous system which helps us regulate our emotions is activated when we sing and when we hum it is activated when we um stimulate both sides of our bodies so like marching in place or Clapping Your Hands we call it bilateral stimulation that awakens that part of the nervous system that calms us and when we sing with other people our heartbeats sink up is this science this yes yes our heartbeats actually will come into syn if someone's singing in a choir and the choir singing in unison the heartbeat of the choir members will come into Rhythm what this is why he says praise me in song Praise me with the dance that it affects us physically and brings us into connection with each other so everything that God told us to do Make a Joyful Noise that's why I actually miss choirs because now like the worship movement kind of brought us into this like concert style when I was a kid like the choir was big and you didn't have to audition and we had congregational songs and so we just sang together and making that kind of loud noise awakens the part of your nervous system that helps regulate you laughing helps to do it and so that's why it's so good to spend time with people who make you laugh um making eye contact with someone who loves you a long hug 20 seconds or more activates that part of the nervous system and so we are missing out on the most important forms of self-care um by not letting it be relationship care or other care my most important form of self care is to get to my friend and get a hug like we were made biologically for relationship and so expressive worship is huge because it brings together movement because movement activates that nerve movement sound relationship connection it's all oh I can see another book right here I can see another book just on that that is so powerful actually on so many levels talk about it in this book but you're right there's so much more for that like why Sunday morning is so good for us at any other time We Gather so good for us I think we just need an entire season that is Dr Anita like just a whole season you can just take my seat like oh my goodness we'll all be here okay well we're gonna I know our time is up and I wish it wasn't but um we are definitely going to have you back I know Dr Anita we are like propel women we get to the point and here we are but we've all enjoyed this so much we're like oh oh okay that's it um but I I need to say that book about Sunday morning helping us wow you've got to do that that is just I am thinking about all of this okay anyway the fact is I want to say thank you I mean you're such a dear friend I love you with all my heart and um this conversation's been awesome to say the least but we've only just started but for everyone listening uh Dr Anita's details are listed and tagged in the description of this episode you have got to get her latest book The Garden within um it is it is life-changing I don't say use that phrase I haven't used it at all um on this series because but this book is so powerful and so profound so um keep up with her connect further she's a great follow so for all of our listeners we love you so much we appreciate you and thank you so much for joining us here on the Propel women podcast and I cannot wait to see you back here next week thank you so much for joining us today make sure to subscribe to this channel to get notified every time a new video is posted we are so glad that you're here and look forward to seeing you next week God bless you

Channel: Christine Caine

Views: 53,882

Keywords: Christine Caine, Christine Caine Sermons, Christine Caine Sermon, Christine Cain, Christine Caine A21, Christine Caine Propel, Christine Caine Podcast, Christine Caine Propel Women, Anita Phillips, Dr. Anita Phillips, The Garden Within, In The Light Podcast, Leadership, Christine Caine 2022, Christine Caine 2023, Propel Women, Propel Women Podcast, Christine Caine elevation church, Christine Caine Bethel, Jesus, Christine Caine passion, 32CC, 23CC, 2C3C, C232, CC23

Id: aBceX_3z8NU

Length: 32min 8sec (1928 seconds)

Published: Thu Jan 25 2024