Christian Apologetic: Creationism | Esther Dhanraj and Sanjay Dixit

[Music] press the bell icon on youtube and don't miss another update namaste and welcome to the 5 pm show today this saturday and today i have today i have a very interesting presentation for you and this is part of our christian subversion syndrome series if you remember that series that we started initially in fact we had this discussion with esther dhanuraj who is with me today welcome esther how are you doing i'm doing great sanjay ji thank you for having me on the show we had this discussion initially with the bhutiji and then we had a talk from my aram and today actually in the series proper this is the second episode of that series and this focuses on the most fundamental idea of christianity and that is creationism now let me not define it for you because esther is there and i leave it to her to guide you through this presentation that she's going to make and then we will all ask her some questions and be ready with your questions from now on start subscribing straight away to the channel and listen to the presentation very carefully and ask questions that's it okay esther all yours namaste viewers uh i am going to be presenting creationism uh and this is the most fundamental apology take of christianity and this is a little intense subject and i have uh put together a presentation for you just so um you will be able to follow along as i'm throwing out jargon and you know a lot of technical terminology so i hope just stay with me and i hope you'll understand what i'm trying to say so before i start sharing the screen let me just tell you that the the reason i call this the most important the fundamental uh christian apologetic is because you demolish creationism and the rest of the doctrines automatically collapse that is how important this fund this doctrine is so that i'm saying apologetic and i'm also saying doctrine in this context i'm uh using them alternately uh it i'm meaning the same word so let me start sharing my screen and so uh creationism that's the most fundamental apologetic and let me define uh creationism for you uh it is defined as the taking of the bible particularly the early chapters of genesis and genesis happens to be the very first book of the judeo-christian bible uh taking the early chapters as literally true and as guides to the history of the universe and to the history of life including as a human being down on this ppt are you showing a ppt uh yeah i'm trying to show the people i said share the screen so share the screen then there will be some options yes yes yes yes so yeah can you see the screen now okay okay okay so that's creationism let me go over again so that's creationism and the most fundamental apologetic and the definition of creationism i would like to call it as something that can be defined as a taking of the bible particularly the early chapters of genesis as literally true and as guides to the history of the universe and to the history of life including us humans uh on this very earth this is also genesis also happens to be the beginning history of of languages how languages came about and how races came about so anybody who takes these verses these chapters from the genesis as true literally true uh that's how we define creationism and people that subscribe to that theory are creationists and i will come to that in a little bit but let me say at the outset that genesis story is the basis for salvation there is no genesis event there's no disobedience of adam and eve there's no disobedience there's no original sin which is another doctrine very big doctrine and no original sin there is no need for salvation and no need for salvation no need for jesus so that is how important genesis is that is how important genesis is for salvation and salvation is important for the standing up of christianity so and salvation comes into play only if the genesis creation account is taken literally as long as it is read literally the need for salvation and the fulfillment of that need in jesus makes sense um of course there is a problem when you read the genesis account literally the age of the earth is just 6 000 years or under 10 000 years but if you take it metaphorically then the salvation event would have been a wasted event and if it didn't i mean if these uh creation event did not happen then the salvation event is fabricated the doctrine of salvation is fabricated in either case uh i would suggest the doctrine of salvation and the doctrine of creationism can be totally discarded so you see the link between salvation and genesis account so the list of i mean genesis also has the list of uh what day what was created so day one it's light day towards the sky day three land sea plants and trees uh were created then day four sun moon and stars uh then day five sea and sky creatures day six land animals including humans and then god was tired and rested on the seventh day uh but interestingly i just want to throw in this fact here according to christianity the day of lazing around is holier than the productive days but also the uh coinage work is worship also comes from the same place that christianity comes but that's besides the topic so uh the why am i okay so how was creationism born initially it was truly an american phenomena it did not come out of the borders of america so creationism was born out of the denial of the evolution of species through natural selection so this was against darwinism so it was an almost exclusively american phenomena and for a long time it remained like that confrontations between creationists that is people who subscribe to the literal reading of the early chapters of genesis their confrontations with uh followers of darwin's theories that took place throughout the uh 19th and 28th centuries especially in the united states and in 1925 at the so-called monkey trial john scopes a teacher in dayton ohio was convicted for teaching his children his students the theory of evolution you see until 1925 there was no need for this doctrine so as a result of you know several scientific discoveries and advances especially in the field of biology the theory of evolution gradually gained acceptance i'm not going into the details of what happened in this uh the monkey trial uh but just to give you a gist of where it started and how late how recently it started so soon all these scientific discoveries and advances just through the trust the creationism as soon as fast as it took birth and in 1968 the united states supreme court declared the anti-evolutionist laws in force uh in several states as unconstitutional so i mean you can imagine from 25 1925 to 1968 until united states supreme court intervened there were something called anti-evolutionist laws which means do not teach children students in schools evolution so in 1968 the supreme court declares all such laws as unconstitutional so uh what what are the i here i have in 10 points summarized what are the fundamental beliefs of creationists so stay here closely with me so the first point is god created in six days all of life including homo sapiens and man was created in the image of god adam was the first created uh human being and he was created from earth's dust and god breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and the second belief is god gave adam the primeval garden of eden to tend and he commanded adam not to eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil and this came to be called the forbidden tree the forbidden fruit and what was the penalty for disobeying god death god saw that i mean that belief is god saw that adam needed company so he created animals anticipating they would be sufficient but soon god realized that he was wrong he found adam was still alone so what does he do he puts adam to sleep took from him a rip and created a new companion eep thankfully at least uh this time he foresaw that um this guy adam would soon need something more than just company so he created an eve instead of adam jr and god also foresaw that soon they would both disobey him and as a penalty for their disobedience he would have to bring into play guess what marriage and conjugation between man and woman reproduction and especially motherhood for the woman and toiling for his family for the man so you see you see that uh thinking how marriage is a sin is a result of sin how conjugation between man and woman is the punishment for human beings so i mean luckily this this is not true so uh but still this is what at least half uh half of america believes so the fourth belief is adam and eve were persons of innocence initially meaning they had no knowledge of their own potential to procreate soon he yielded to the temptations of a talking serpent and adam joins her in disobedient disobeying god and together they eat the forbidden fruit they both suddenly become cognizant of their bodies and and their being their very being and they covered their nakedness from god move your ppt it's not moving it's stuck on the first slide yeah yeah it's oh it's stuck on the first slide itself uh what are they following then stream yard how do i do it sanjay i mean in that same you share the screen yeah i'm moving it i can move it on my laptop i shared the screen and then you share the screen uh share the app that's what i i it's exactly what i did can you can you see that can you see a different uh slide now not yet oh yeah yes do you see that yes yes you can you can see that okay i'm here i'm on this yeah i can see it i can see it so uh right now i'm on the fundamental beliefs of creationists the six days of creation god gave adam the primeval garden of eden can you see that slide yes yes okay yeah so can you see the fundamental beliefs of creativity okay okay so uh these are the six uh beliefs or the ten beliefs of uh creationists then the fifth point is the fifth belief is immediately as soon as adam and deep covered their nakedness god recognized from their covering that they transgressed which means if they had not covered themselves god probably would not have known that they transgressed or they disobeyed him and went ahead and had the forbidden fruit so he proclaims he comes out he jumps out at them and he proclaims their punishments for the woman he declares pain during childbirth and subordination to man and for the man toil and sweat for his subsistence his and his families and for the serpent because the serpent is another important guy in this whole story who tempts eve so for the serpent he says crawl on the ground and eat the dust of the ground and be crushed under the heel of man and the sixth belief is some time later god saw his initial creation attempt failed miserably so god couldn't prevent man from being what he made him to be which is human so man utilizes his god-given god-gifted free will god regretted making man and giving him free will so god couldn't foresee that man would use it someday but he's still so which is why he goes ahead and gives it to him so in this uh course by now they have multiplied and uh god continues to regret yet uh he just uh excuses people but on one um one fine day he finds only one family uh and a limited number of animals worth preserving and and he drowns the rest of them in a worldwide flood so the third the seventh belief is uh there were other events such as the tower of babel which is the basis for the languages of the world and point number eight the belief number eight is all of this is recorded in the bible and who who was the inspiration behind the bible god himself so and this is all this creation event of god is recorded in the book of genesis and genesis is a historical account and this the whole event is the basis for the need for salvation and salvation comes how only through jesus christ so um do you see the next slides on jj next slide okay yeah no yes okay okay so all christians regardless of their denominations are creationists even though they acknowledge the ten points that i just shared they are divided on two aspects of creationism one is on the basis of the day of day of the word day which is yom y-o-m and then the second division is on the basis of the process involved in creation what what process did god adopt to create what we see today so anyway divisions excuse me divisions are nothing new to christianity i would say divisions uh had been more fundamental than the most fundamental doctrine but having no consensus on the very doctrine that is the mother of all christian doctrines that is truly frustrating for the christians and entertaining for me of course so and let's see on the basis of uh day how are they divided so genesis uses the hebrew word yom for days of creation and creationists are divided on what the bible authors meant by yom so did they mean literal 24-hour day or did they mean an infinite indefinite period of time so they are divided on this basis and they fight and on the basis of pros uh basis of process there are two subdivisions the young earth creationism and the old earth creationism now young earth creationism is the literal reading of genesis which promotes that earth is 6000 to 10 000 years old and it claims that the bible is incompatible with the idea that humans share common ancestry with the other life forms on earth and they also argue that evolution is a direct threat to christianity so how did it begin it began in uh the 17th century with an irish archbishop named james usher he was a professor of theological controversies at trinity college in dublin so he made a guess of 4004 bce as a starting date of creation event and he made this guess by how adding together the genealogies mentioned in the old testament now old testament has a whole lot of chapters dedicated to who begot whom so there are so many begats quote unquote in the bible so he added up all these genealogies all the way back till adam and eve and on the basis of this he fixed 200 4004 bce as a starting date of creation and by the same calculation he fixed 2349 bce as the time of noah's flood still somebody else picked up the same calculation and this guy is john lightfoot and he's a vice chancellor of cambridge university and he supplied the exact time and date to us which is october 23rd 9 00 am 4004 bce is when creation got started creating now that's the uh young earth creationist and who are the old earth creationists and how did oec start it originates in the liberal reading of genesis account incorporating the evidence of signs so the oecs what did they do they saw that so much of compelling evidence was uh coming to the front for front and they couldn't deny it it was so compelling that they couldn't deny it so they had to come up with some theories and you would be surprised how many different theories they came up with and these guys accept some um create i mean evolution unlike the young earth creationists they accept the scientific evidence for the age of the earth and they say they also go with microevolution and they reconcile somehow uh the special creation of god with the old earth in i mean the old earth in the sense signs how by interpreting the six days of creation in genesis to be of unspecified length stretching them out to fit the results of scientific studies and the second way how they do it is by separating those special days by indefinite gaps i will get to that in a minute so these guys have uh for four different basically four uh or five i mean intelligent design is a whole different school but i would put it as four different uh categories which is progressive creationism gap creationism evolutionary creationism day age theory and intelligent design so what is uh progressive creationism the this oec model of the universe argues that the fundamental pattern of creation is progressive and it's also called concordism because it seeks harmony between science and the geologic record and the biblical creation texts which is genesis and it argues that god intervened he intervened to affect the the vertical uh growth of the species so as to obtain macro evolution over a period of approximately 600 million years and miraculously somehow god created new species at key moments in the history of life and millions of years separated the miraculous appearance of various kinds of living things just don't ask me how this theory goes uh there is all you find is just pseudoscience in this but again we are not getting into uh the rebuttal at this point so next is the evolutionary creationism so these guys they try to reconcile christian creationist beliefs and scientific understanding of uh cosmological geological and biological evolution they claim that the hebrew god the god of the old testament and the ghost and the god of the new testament which is jesus and the ghost of the christian god which is the holy spirit uh who is claimed by christians to have been present from the very beginning so together these three created the universe and they created life through an ordained and sustained design reflecting evolutionary process and this view contents that the christian creator got established and maintains the laws of nature and they also say that evolution is a planned and purpose-driven natural process and he then the image of god and the human sin but gradually and mysteriously for no space no specified reason they just manifest it so that is evolutionary creationism for you next is the gap creationism these guys accept that the scientific evidence for the great age of the earth which is 4.6 billion years and the universe which is 13.7 billion years is strong and they accept that they cannot deny it so what do they do they try to reconcile with it how they claim that creation happened in two stages listen to this with billions of years of gap between the two the first stage happened in verse one of genesis in the beginning god created the heaven and the earth that is the first stage of creation happened then and then in verse two gap of untold length is there uh there's a there's verse the verse goes like this the earth was filled with void and it was formless so they say that the these this expression void and formless allegedly i mean it corresponds to this gap uh so between verse one and three is words 2 where god is actually missing and verse 2 is billions of years of gap and what was god doing at this time he was probably caught up in some domestic issues in heaven this is when actually if you see the diagram below this is when lucifer falls into sin god judges the earth and between words one here and verse two here so this is a long gap of an indefinite uh unspecified period so this is when uh lucifer falls now don't ask me where is all this mentioned because uh it's not mentioned in the bible it just has to be uh taken as as the interpretation that has come down to us so in verse 3 he returns from a gap of how many ever years and for whatever reason he decides to go on a creation spree for the next six literal 24 hour days and this starts in verse 3. so he goes creating and recreating and remaking of the heavens and earth because then the account takes you into several uh accounts at least two accounts of creation so what what are they saying the current living creatures come from the second phase of creation and that creation culminates in the creation of adam and eve just a few thousand years ago and how do they account for the fossil remains they say the fossils represent creatures that populated the first stage of creation and of course as i said it's not mentioned anywhere and this view does not accept uh the common ancestry of all life forms uh and i mean they simply say that they're all they were all created in their present forms wait until you get to the most ridiculous uh explanation so that that is the gap creationism a gap between verse 1 which was the first stage of creation and verse 3 where god returns to start his second phase of creation and we all come under the second phase of creation next we have the day age theory so by the time they got to this stage by the time they had to come up i would say i would stress the word had because they had to so by the time they got to this situation the predicament of theistic evolutionists was like this so the so-called divine revelation that is the bible indicates a universe and earth that were formed in six days right and then they have to profess a certain allegiance to this revelation they cannot deny this to be called christians they have to but on the other hand they cannot deny the scientific evidence of at least six billion years uh at least they cannot deny it anymore in the face of all the scientific advancement they did so for several centuries but not anymore so now how do they harmonize the biblical event with the evolutionary scenario the harmonic matter model is what is the day age theory and actually the basis for this view is the interpretation of the hebrew word yom and it is used throughout the old testament and has a variety of meanings at least that's what the interpreters say uh and some of those meanings include uh under undefined indeterminate period of time rather like the english word day in their day and age something like that so the day age theories whose task it was to harmonize their belief with science took the word to mean long periods of time so young is taken uh to be indefinite period of time for this in this context but i want you to note that this differs from the gap creationism so gap creationism posits a long gap between verse one which is the first stage of creation and verse two and then the sixth creation days are taken as literal 24 hour days so um then some serious young earth creationists uh came together and they said these day age theories are heretics they're blasphemers because yom the word occurs some 2282 times outside of genesis in the entire bible and each time each and every time they argue it meant literal 24 hour day so young earth creationists just do not agree that this the earth that we are living on the universe it could be more than 10 000 years old but it's very interesting how they account for everything that we see today so then this pseudoscience called intelligent design so the last quarter of uh the 20th century was marked by an appreciable uh of creationist ideas so creationists tried to adapt in the light of these setbacks that they had sustained against the supporters of the theory of evolution so the process of adaptation produced neo-creationists and they had to adapt the what do they advocate intelligent design and they adapted to such an extent that in the current statements that they put out there are no references to god and the bible those words are totally absent and no reference to even divine creation so the theory holds that certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause not by undirected process such as natural selection so it also defends the hypothesis of the intervention of a so-called superior intelligence which is like intelligent design so uh this is actually interesting because um they say that look we have dropped the words god we did away with the bible and our id theory must now be taught in schools because it's science uh it's not god or it's not bible so it's not religion anymore so our explanation is science and true enough today many schools in the west in the christian west teach in their biology class they teach creationism instead of evolution so we will get to that also so they present these intelligent design uh theories they present the darwinian theory of evolution not as a scientific theory but as an ideology or a natural philosophy and therefore they say that this is unfit to be taught in schools as science and they insist that instead their theory must be taught so that's the neo-creationists who came up with this intelligent design in the face of the scientific advancement now i want to show you some of the most ridiculous apologetic arguments of young earth creationists i i told you right how do they account for fossils and uh you know how do they account for the rock strata that indicates millions or billions of years of erosion and all so this is what they do they they actually all this gave them a big uh setback so they needed to account for all these arguments and they say that i mean actually here also there are two groups one group is totally unbothered it says we're not bothered by the dating methods they're simply wrong uh the other the other group says that um the other group actually comes up with some arguments and what do they say when science says that different rock strata indicate millions or billions of years of deposition and uh erosion they say that the geological and fossil record was created fully intact god created the universe a few thousand years ago in such a way that the geological and fossil record was fully intact can you beat that so they have tried to explain every observable phenomena in nature that scientists have discovered by saying that god created the earth a few thousand years ago but created it in such a way that it appears to be old this is called the appearance of age theory and to me this is the most ridiculous theological argument for creationism so moving on when science has said that fossil zones in the layers of rock suggest millions of years of successive origination an extinction of uh species they explain that god created the universe with an appearance of age in such a way that the uh that the [Music] uh uh just a minute okay this is just another instance of creation being given the appearance of age the fossil is just an appearance creation being given the appearance of age and then science when science put out that light from stars take much time to reach the earth they said that the light from distant stars already reached the earth remember the gap in verse 2 so this was the time when light was traveling from those distant stars to the earth so by the time god got to the second phase of creation the light had already reached earth and then the most compelling argument of science is the radiometric dating according to uh the ysc's explanation they say that god could have created radioactive elements and their uh they're concerned related dotted products in ratios such that they gave the appearance that they had been decaying for an extremely long periods of time so for everything no matter what science puts forward the ycs reported just with one line they say appearance of age god created every single thing with the appearance of age for no apparent reason why did god have to deceive i mean that's another theological problem it uh another question it raises it says why did god have to deceive but again that's that's we are not rebutting here so we will not touch upon those questions now so uh what are the dangers of creationism why is uh creationism not acceptable in this world we have two prominent countries i mean i have at least put together here two prominent countries that have stood up against creationism uh although they are the very people that began all this uh all these they put out all these theories but fortunately there are some sections of these countries that uh strongly oppose these theories so the most advanced country at least that's what it portrays itself to be so united states lags behind the rest of the world in scientific understanding of genetics and evolution and uh i think um [Music] about five years uh in the census in the survey taken about uh almost five years ago it ranks 32nd in a survey of 34. uh narrowly beating turkey so in in their understanding of genetics and evolution and to this day you can actually find people fighting about whether abortion is illegal or illegal constitutional or unconstitutional so pro-lifers and pro-abortionists they have so and it's also the one of the largest and most developed countries and i'm sure this fact that it lags behind the rest of the world and under scientific understanding is embarrassing for a lot of americans um but this pseudoscience the uh intelligent design or the rest of the uh creationist theories uh it's not something to be laughed at and ignored because this is not an outdated scientific fallacy it's very much we know it is pseudoscience but it is promoted as science so it continues to invade policies and schools in the united united states to this day and even the top political candidates who have a background in sciences continuously promote creationism as a scientific fact for example ben carson he was the presidential candidate in 2016 and he holds a creationist perspective a pediatrician he's a very very reputed pediatrician and he holds the creationist perspective and in fact he uh stated it in multiple events public events and um he's not alone there's ted cruz there's rand paul bobby jindal so all these people they subscribe to the creationist views and considering that these people are at least ben carson has a science a degree i mean it's really sad disappointing and creationism is taught i think as of 2019 creationism is taught in schools in 14 different states nationwide so uh why is it why is this so important and why is this impactful uh why should we be bothered if they are teaching creationism in the united states schools the first thing is this is a day and age of age where we are connected all nations are connected so if children cannot be taught accurately the principles of science a generation of scientifically illiterate adults will be raised and this will impact the rest of the world because it is impacting their policy because even policymakers are creationists there so it impacts the policies of those countries which in turn impacts the international relations and uh there is an interesting court that i picked up from this journal article that was produced by published by oxford press and the article is called danger of creationism this is by paul f lurkin who is uh i think professor of genetics at washington state university so he says creationism threatens science education in the united states the threat comes from religious ideologies such as intelligent design that have never provided a shred of experimental evidence to buttress their planes and then we have another uh whole continent which talks about the dangers of creationism and this is from europe so i have to say despite the fact that creationism has risen in europe uh since what 1970s it has received nowhere near the support as it has in the united states probably because of the strict measures by the states like the one undertaken by the committee on culture science and education of the european council so this parliament assembly was so worried about the possible ill effects of uh the spread of creationist ideas let me pause here and ask sanji uh are you on the are you able to see the right slide committee of culture science and education exactly yeah okay okay okay so so i'm hoping the viewers are with me i know i'm going pretty fast because of the time constraints so okay so the parliament assembly was so worried about the possible ill effects of the spread of creationist ideas within their education systems and also about the uh the consequences the results for their democracies the impact it would have on their democracies and um so they agreed that if they were not careful and creationism could become a threat to human rights creationism a threat to human rights that's what they all agreed and uh this became the key concern for the council of europe so what did they do back in 2007 yes this is a little um old report but there's a lot to take away from this their whole understanding of what creationism can do to uh societies is very interesting to note in this report so back in 2007 the committee called on education authorities in member states to promote scientific knowledge and to oppose firmly any attempts at teaching creationism as a scientific discipline and to that effect the committee presented a report titled the danger of creationism in education so the aim aim of this report was to warn against certain tendencies it was not to hurt anybody's religious uh sentiments but they mentioned it at the outset that to want against certain tendencies to pass off as a belief as a science was their main aim and they were doing all this only because they were concerned that the effects of creationism would impact their democracies so some of the key points of this report are they agreed that the prime target of creationists is education because we know that it happens both in christian education and muslim education that catch them young is their agenda i mean is there a catchword so the the committee found uh realized and agreed on the fact that the prime targets of creationists is a prime target is education and creationism in any of its forms is not based on facts therefore its contents are inappropriate for science classes and it also they also agreed that a serious it introduces a serious confusion into their children's minds and what is the confusion it's between what has to do with convictions beliefs and ideals and what has to do with science so separating those two things was impossible for the children who were fed on these theories so the the committee also agreed that the intelligent design which is the latest and more refined version of creationism though it doesn't use the words god bible and divine revelation uh even if it is very subtle in its presentation is no less dangerous and though they claim that is the uh creationists claim to base their arguments on scientific rigor their methods are of three types purely dogmatic assertions distorted use of scientific quotations and the third is uh they get the backing from more or less well-known scientists and most of whom are not even specialists in these matters especially if you ever visit a website called biblical archaeology you would find that none of those people are um i mean they're biblical archaeologists now the the moment they say this is biblical archaeology as opposed to archaeology just the archaeology you should i mean it should raise some red flags so that's what they the european council thinks here it says that they got the creation is god backing from more or less um i mean less lesser well-known scientists and most of these so-called scientists are not even specialists in these matters so by these means what are the creationists trying to uh seek what is their goal of even at least the id theorists or the other creationists their goal is to appeal to non-specialists that is lay people people that do not specialize in any of these scientific fields and so doubt and confusion in their minds what do they achieve by that conversion i mean then they incline towards creationism then they incline towards oh god created this world in just six days so that that is their goal then the committee also found that the war or on the theory of evolution originates in forms of religious extremism which are closely allied to extreme right-wing political movements well i mean i know the uh right and left dichotomies do not work here but at least this is what the uh come the council came up with so the creationist movements possess real political power which is true we've seen people politicians like ben carson and ted cruz subscribing to these uh theories then uh the council also said in the report that some advocates of strict creationism are out to replace democracy by theocracy and then they went on to say that creationism develops modes of thoughts that are attacking the very core of the knowledge that we have built up little by little concerning nature evolution our origins and our place in the universe so and then they also said that just beware you know if we are not careful uh the way creationists are growing their tentacles it shows that the values that are the very essence of the council of europe will be under direct threat from creationist fundamentalists and they as i also already mentioned they also think it is a serious attack on human rights so uh for this is a completely complete interesting uh report uh so here is the link to that report i mean there are several more points that they covered but i i just touched upon the very important points that somehow relate to our nation our country so uh those of you that are interested i would just encourage you to go ahead and go read these the other points here so some um concluding thoughts i actually wanted to do this uh whole presentation by starting with what apologetics is and what uh how it originated and how it actually ties with what is happening in our country in our country today not just today throughout our history the distortion of our uh history or the fake narratives that they uh peddle so all these ties back to the definition and the purpose of apologetic so that's where i wanted to start this presentation but again we do not have that much time so i didn't go into that detail probably i'll present it uh one of these days what apologetics is actually but apologetics works only one way for the fundamentalist reason is a tool that only they must use and use it for what just to defend their pseudoscience and when the non-christian begins applying it or even for that matter a christian like me a former christian like me applies it for questioning their beliefs or for quitting christianity they will be told that scripture must be understood by spiritual wisdom and not by reason so the question is why even apply it to defend reason just simply say that you should take the council of the holy spirit to understand the bible but no they'll use it to come up with their pseudo science but when we do it they show us the scripture so the the doctrines actually the creationism is just the tip of the iceberg it may be the most fundamental thing but as you go along the other doctrines are so ridiculous so their doctrines first lock humans in the dungeon of ignorance and dogmatic fundamentalism and then they throw away the keys uh you might also hear them uh say this i've heard it so many times on the on the comments on my videos they say if our doctrines are so damaging then why are you even bothered they will only damage those who choose to believe it well here is the catch no fundamentalist is content with his or her own beliefs content i mean a fundamentalist will make sure that he imposes his own beliefs on others they're not merely proselytizing here they brainwash so they're not just saying that oh you know if you follow this it's going to do you good no they're going to be persistent about it they're going to brainwash and not just outsiders the real threat is to their own children so they push their creed not just to the outsiders not just to their children they try to do that do this in public schools especially in the christian west and this is so related the next point that i'm going to make is so related to us so fundamentalists teach their children not only that hinduism is evil but also that entering their places of worship or even allowing their places of worship to coexist is a sin that leads the soul to eternal damnation that's their apologetic and fundamentalists also spend countless hours telling their children that hindus are the children of uh the devil and their practices are demonic i mean we see that happening every day on social media in our uh in our entertainment and also they view the difference between hinduism and christianity as an all-out war between god's word and human sins and they think that it is the calling of a divine calling of every christian parent to prepare their child for this battle uh we know that they failed to fathom and celebrate the complexity and variety of sanatana philosophy and instead they disparage the liberation as the philosophy allows as immoral unethical dangerous sinful demonic and they only pick up on our metaphors on our metaphorical part of our wisdom of our knowledge systems and attack it and finally uh our greatest ability to reason is turned into our great greatest enemy and they say that using our brains according to creationism will lead us to sin because it's when adam and eve used their minds to do what they wanted that is when they became sinful and that is what invited the wrath of god so stop using your brains creationism says otherwise it will lead you to sin just rely on the holy spirit always and wait for him to tell you what to do and they of course insist that uh you know evolution has robbed us of our humanity but if you actually look at it it's their twisted gospel that strips us of the very thing that makes us human which is reason so i would say that christianity is a mental prison with no hope of release and the the only escape hatch has been sealed off by years of suppression and christianity is fundamentally unintelligent commanding the believer to snub her own logic and cognition in favor of what a 3 000 year old absurd text of the bible so that brings us to the end thank you esther that was that captured a very vast canvas in just 45 50 minutes uh that was quite wonderful yeah yeah it went pretty fast i hope i made sense yes i think this is something that needs to be gone over again and again i think even the viewers have been watching would definitely like to go over this uh again and again so uh i don't see many questions coming from the uh yeah yeah the point that i'm trying to make is with all those different theories i mean just from the reading of what 34 words 31 verses the book of genesis has just 31 verses and out of 31 verses or 31 statements so to say there are so many theories over the last 2000 years they do not have consensus on even the most important doctrine and that is really uh really shocking so and and they are set out to challenge us attack us yes you're right so of course uh today we are not going into the rebuttal but uh at least you can tell us a few what is called the the the trump cards that you can use especially someone who's confronted with the proselytizer so what are the two or three catchwords that he can counter them with then we've got i think now we've got some questions after that i'll take those questions yeah uh i mean six thousand i mean first make up your mind what is it is it six thousand years old or is it 4 billion 4 billion years old so make up your mind before you even come out to talk to me about salvation and break it up break up when you say adam and eve sinned explain to me who adam and eve were explain to me the word sin so break it down for me so it's actually time to uh stop getting defensive and just put the right questions to them and the the first question would be okay your creationism this is what your creationism is let's let's take the two broad classifications one the old earth one is the young earth so tell me first is it the young earth or is it the older then then we will start our conversation okay so that would be the fundamental thing and of course then we can because if it is if it is if the creation event did not happen there's no need for salvation so what am i getting saved from if it's just a metaphor so if it is the old earth then there's no need for salvation either way there's no i mean if it is old earth so what was god doing in that gap of uh so many billions of years what was he doing and why did he have to suddenly appear in verse three and decide to start doing the creation again old earth or new earth salvation new earth is nonsense from the beginning because yes young yes but you would be surprised there are still big huge organizations subscribing to it there are museums uh set up in the us talking about young earth okay that's that's interesting yeah yeah that's right maybe we should present that uh museum sometime on your show okay you know as we grow into this series this just this the episode two in the first episode we had discussed the various cults and that was also quite interesting it came from mayaji now we have some questions from the audience and we'll take this these questions and i'll also remind the audience that we will also come up with detailed rebuttals of this in this very series sometime so let's have the questions [Music] [Applause] [Music] please tell some blatant lies of christianity to counter christians jesus came to save you so both jesus and saving is a lie in that sentence are both lies in that sentence quite right because the judeans did not have jesus and well they have same creationism no need for salvation also they didn't have need for salvation i think that comparison is also important how is it that their creationism does not meet jesus and salvation but this creationism needs that's it right next mithul panchal christianity can't even stand without old testament which is not christian at all it is later incorporated into the christianity yeah even though they do not they cannot stand without the old testament they still discard it if you see actually see a lot of sermons these days they do not want to have anything to do with the old testament because the old testament has so much of violence and incest and they do not have answers to these uh all these things so for them the old testament is only for the so-called prophecies for uh a messiah so they pick and choose from the old testament but otherwise if they would if they could they would discard the old testament actually speaking but theologically they cannot they cannot they're tied with tied in with it okay and sharma got late in watching the show i'll watch the episode again please call astraji more and more as i feel that christianity is more dangerous than islam yeah it's a soft it's like if i can use bad words on your show it's like soft [Laughter] porn then where the wife of kind came from if yahweh knew that humans can be like him then why he grew the trees of knowledge and life on earth you don't want to ask questions of christians that they that you know they don't have answers to that's not even fair [Laughter] it's not fair so they've been battling for two they've been struggling to find answers to this question for the past 2000 years next whole pbd is same like quran fairy tales both are safe don't use mind otherwise you will be punished yeah yeah absolutely next core concept of original sin sin is fake fake still how many people follow them brainwash that's where the brainwash like i said they don't just proselytize they brainwash so they are not just handing out a hand bill or they're not handing out a bible and going away no they're coming back again and again and to brainwash you so if you tell a lie enough times it seems like the truth so that's what is happening here and also the fear tactic that the church is used to playing for so long next creationism is coming from the old testament only yes the event the event is there in the old testament but creationism as a theory is recent it's it was not there until the 1900s like i said in the 1925 um people woke up to whole you know oh we should counter darwinism otherwise we cannot survive so creation event is there in the old testament but not creationism so the moment you add a ism to it it becomes a theory a man-made theory actually church is very smart you know not just harbors but it also hires scientists you look at that [Music] god moment that stephen hawking hawk that god moment that was propagated by stephen hawking that was nothing but subtle creationism the god theory yeah yeah so yeah creationism doesn't come from old testament only the the christians made use of an event that is described in the old testament next question if in place of taking genesis account as literal and historic they take it as symbolic would it not solve the problem that's what i said if you take it as a metaphor then there's no need for salvation there's no need for jesus and that's why i said you demolish creationism and the rest of the doctrines like the original sin or the doctrine of salvation the doctrine of redemption everything collapses automatically so only if you take the genesis account as literal and historic only then there will be original sin for which salvation has to be uh done that is when the need for jesus arises it's all about how they interpret it it would definitely yeah solve the problem again our directive of creation has narayan brahma from whom came the rest is though not scientific does not threaten sanatana tradition will appreciate your comments now this is completely different you know because it relates to the different theories in sanatana relate to your state of your level of uh what is called level of your intellectual prowess so you can view it in different manner so they recognize that mankind is different people are different they come with different abilities and so that's how it is you can be subject you can be formless you can be with form take your pick it's a library yes yes you're saying something yeah i was saying also they like uh i think rajeev pointed out in his books they're called that's the difference between history-centric religions and uh non-history-centric religions christianity is a history-centric religion demolition it's history i mean prove that none of those things are historical and christianity falls automatically but uh sanathan tradition is not history-centric which is why whether ganesha exists or not as a historical person hinduism will still stand i mean sanatana philosophy will still stand that's the difference uh next shana kumar why was december 25th chosen as the birthday of jesus is christmas really jesus birthday who is jesus by the way you're talking about it so that's the more fundamental question yeah we have to first argue that mehta friendly atheist youtube channel has a series of everything wrong in the bible gives good insight of christian theology okay so that brings us to the end of the questions thank you very much yes sir you had a very enlightening session and we hope to continue on this path now we've got two more apologetics coming up and that is the original sin and salvation is it yes original sin yes original sin and substitution i would say substitution is somebody else dying for one's mistake one does the sin and the other dies for it the ridiculous substitution doctrine okay does it even make sense quite right thank you very much and thank you all viewers um i would like to say something sanji before we close so i would like the viewers to give feedback to this i mean i do i i know this is highly highly technical uh something that a seminary student would take about two or three semesters to read i tried to sum it up all in just what 50 minutes so i would like some feedback on the kind of uh presentation if if anybody understood anything at all so i would like that kind of feedback sanji that's right sure sure sure i mean i would change my method of presentation if this is not working a lot of comments coming up coming down so we will get the feedback so thank you esther once again and thank you everyone thank you for having us i

Channel: The Jaipur Dialogues

Views: 35,090

Keywords: esther dhanraj, hindi apologetics, apologetics in hindi, esther dhanraj latest video, esther dhanraj ex christian, Creationism, Christian Apologetics

Id: v_gGFnxATbw

Length: 71min 54sec (4314 seconds)

Published: Sat May 29 2021