- The first time Jalen Rose
met Chris Webber they were 12. Jalen told Chris "You've got the sorriest "game I've ever seen." And the way Rose describes it, he and Webber should have been
rivals from that moment on. While Jalen was "taking two
public buses across town at dawn" to attend Detroit's
Southwestern High School, Chris was starring at the much fancier Detroit Country Day private school. Rose was a well regarded
prospect but Webber got more hype as well as
Michigan's Mr. Basketball title by a wide margin over
the second place Rose. Envy could have come between them instead, when Webber signed
to join the University of Michigan's legendary
1991 recruiting class Rose followed him because the two had become such close friends. Chris and Jalen stayed
tight throughout college, but the end of their wild ride at Michigan and the extremely complicated legacy of the Fab Five recruiting
class has driven them apart. The seeds of this beef were
planted in the early 90s it took almost 30 years
to reach full bloom. (classic piano playing) Beef grows on trees I guess? I don't know who writes this garbage. Anyway Rose and Webber were
the two Michigan born members of the Fab Five, a Wolverines line up that revolutionized
the style and structure of college basketball,
made important statements about amateurism and capitalism and was really good at sports. The feisty point forward and
the smooth yet thunderous big man were leading scorers on a squad that made back to back NCAA
finals under coach Steve Fisher. Webber became the first
pick in the 1993 NBA draft at the time a rare and impressive honor for an underclassman. He'd go on to an excellent
Pro career earning his first All-Star selection in Washington where he played alongside fellow
Fab Fivesman, Juwan Howard. He then rose to truly
elite status in Sacramento before knee injuries slowed him down. Rose like Howard went
Pro after junior year and became a 94 first round pick. He had some very good
years on some very good Indiana Pacers teams.
(violin plays) Webber and Rose both left
the league in the late 2000s and both quickly transitioned
to television careers that are still going strong. It sounds simple when you
paint it with broad strokes it sounds like they should still be friends, but we neglected some stuff. One crucial thing happened and most of what I just told you
officially didn't happen and it all has to do with Chris Webber. Thing number one: The timeout Michigan's 1992 NCAA Tournament
run was an exciting surprise they were a six seed with
five freshman as starters and while losing to Christian
Laettner, Grant Hill, and the Duke Blue Devils
in the final did hurt. People were mostly thrilled
that the Wolverines made it that far. '93 was different. Michigan
entered March Madness a favorite and upon reaching the
final they fully believed they would take down fellow
one seed North Carolina but, down two in the closing
seconds Webber committed a now infamous infraction. Well first he traveled but
that didn't get called, after that Webber dribbled
up court got trapped right in front of his own bench and
attempted to call a timeout even though Michigan had run out of them. The resulting technical
foul extinguished any hope of Michigan winning it all. Coach Fisher and Webber's
teammates were quick to console their star big man and they insisted he wasn't
the reason they lost, that they wouldn't have
even had a championship to lose if not for Webber's brilliance but Webber clearly took the collapse hard. The scenes of him walking off the court and facing the media
afterward are painful to watch and there wasn't much time
to resolve this grief. Webber boldly declared for
the Draft just weeks later. - I've decided to turn Pro, this decision that I felt was necessary for me to keep going and move on. - He began his career with
the Golden State Warriors while the remaining four stars spent
another season at Michigan. This time falling in the Elite
Eight. So that's thing one. Thing two didn't hit
Webber until years later and it may have never hit
if not for a car accident that had nothing to do with him. In February, 1996, star
recruit Mateen Cleaves visited Michigan and
the team's stars took him out on the town. Returning from a party
Maurice Taylor lost control and rolled his SUV breaking
the arm of teammate Robert Traylor and
sparking an investigation as to what the Wolverines had been up to that night with a recruit in tow. An inquiry by the NCAA and the university didn't reveal anything monumental but later reports uncovered
that the players had been at the home of well know
Michigan booster Ed Martin. Which led to further investigations and eventually Steve Fisher's firing. Then the feds stepped in and discovered that Martin was running an
illegal gambling operation and had made payments over the years to several Michigan
prospects and athletes. Subpoenas led numerous players, coaches and their family members to testify before a grand jury in 2000. Rose, like some others admitted
to accepting small amounts of cash from Martin, but
was left basically unscathed by the legal proceedings. Not the case for Webber,
despite Chris having been especially close to
Martin since his youth, and prior reports of
big money changing hands nothing stemmed from his initial testimony but in 2002, Martin finally
plead guilty to charges that included loaning hundreds
of thousands of dollars to Webber and others. Federal authorities thus indicted Webber for lying to the 2000 grand jury. He initially claimed innocence but eventually admitted to
taking money and plead down to criminal contempt
avoiding a prison sentence. NCAA and self imposed sanctions pushed Michigan basketball to scrub its past. The Wolverines officially
vacated a ton of wins from the Fab Five era, pulled
down their final four banners, and removed Webber's name
from individual record books. And there were future sanctions too, a short post-season ban but
also a 10 year dissociation from Webber and three other
players directly implicated in the Martin scandal, no
contact, no business, no nothing. So yeah, the Fab Five
legacy is complicated and it's primarily because of Webber. We should acknowledge that
Webber's payment scandal probably wouldn't exist
outside and unjust system wherein big time college
athletes receive none of the money that they earn for
their schools but I digress. Anyway, memories of the timeout
didn't really dog Webber once his career moved past
the immediate aftermath Webber became comfortable talking about it he spoke to SI for a big
feature just weeks later and he didn't hear much about the incident once he entered the NBA. Partly because he became a star so fast, partly because he found
new drama in the Pros. With time Webber and his
family could laugh about that humiliating final
moment as a college player. The Ed Martin scandal
was a different story, before confessing in his
eventual plea agreement. Webber was adamant about
fighting the charges and equally adamant in his
disparagement of Ed Martin. Rose and Webber had grown apart as friends in different cities
often do after college, but Chris lying and then lying
about lying was according to Jalen the final blow
to their relationship. But they were still in the league. Rose didn't broadcast his feelings and Webber certainly wasn't gonna talk about that stuff even years later while signing with the hometown Pistons. There are photos of the
two of them together during Webber forced
dissociation from the school, and they even appeared in
some of the same t.v. segments discussing the Fab Five's legacy. While Rose insisted that
no sanction could undo the success of those teams he was clearly bothered by the manufactured distance and the fallen banners. When the final four
came to Detroit in 2009 Rose and Jimmy King pushed
for a Fab Five reunion, but Michigan wouldn't
let them do it on campus and Webber decided not show up. And then there was the 30 for 30. Rose produced ESPN's 2011
documentary on the Fab Five which is excellent and worth watching. There were rumors that
Webber initially agreed to participate but ultimately
he was the only important member of that team not to. Instead the movie depended
on the other four stars, and Steve Fisher, and upper
classmen like Rob Pelinka, all talking about Chris and his mistakes. Toward the end, a school
administrator implores Chris to apologize. - Chris simply needs to acknowledge that he made a mistake,
apologize for those mistakes and I believe that it
would have an enormous impact on our ability
to heal this situation and move forward in a very positive way. - It feels kinda unfair but
I mean that's what happens when arguably the central
subject of a documentary refuses to be in it. While Webber maintained his distance, Rose kept the flood gates open. In 2013, the Wolverines went back to the national championship. Rose, Howard, Jackson,
and King planned to attend the final against Louisville,
and on a Grantland podcast Rose begged Webber to show up too. Chris was the elephant
in the room making any potential reunion weird. Webber did show up separately
while Rose, Howard, King and Jackson cheered together in the crowd, the elephant in the room was
upstairs in a private suite. Later that year Webber's
10 year dissociation with Michigan finally ended. But the banners remained in storage and it was still Rose
doing all the talking. He didn't quite say
Webber should apologize but he did say how he would apologize if it were him in Chris's shoes. And on another podcast
episode he and Bill Simmons recounted Webber giving
Rose the cold shoulder at the NBA Finals. In 2014 Rose kept
addressing Webber publicly as a sort of spokesman for
the other Fab Five members. Since the whole line up
hadn't truly been together since that fateful night in 1993. And he went further in stating firmly that Webber should do right
by his teammates Steve Fisher and the now deceased Martin and apologize. In 2015, Dan Patrick finally
got Webber to respond a lot, he talked about the time out and how it was addressed in the 30 for 30. - I've always embraced the timeout I know that the Fab Five
documentary makes it seem like, oh my God I'm so
scared to talk about it. - [Narrator] And he discussed
that documentary as a whole. - Did you like the Fab Five documentary? - I love the guys and I just
think it's just so much missed. - [Narrator] He insisted he'd been down to participate in the doc
but that he'd been kinda ambushed by the interview requests. - They called and says, hey
we want you to be in a doc, I said, heck yeah I'll be in the doc. (stutters) Well, what's going on? He go, well we're wrapping up next week we need to get you,
I'm like wait a minute. - [Narrator] And he insinuated
that Rose had put himself and his fame above the
legacy of the whole Fab Five. - A lot of people after they retire or when they're looking for a job or when they wanna be relevant. - They embellish. - It's really no, yeah and
you know my whole thing is it's always been about us five you know. - That is a lot. Jimmy King called the bit about the belated interview
request a flat-out lie. And Rose came back swinging,
I'm just going to read this. One dude traveled then called timeout. One dude lied to a grand
jury and hasn't apologized. One dude tried to circumvent
the documentary to HBO One dude ignored multiple
request from everyone involved after agreeing to participate. One dude played like
Obama and sat in a suite during Michigan's recent title game. One dude slandered Ed
Martin after all he did for him and his family. One dude is not in contact
with the other four which is all good. One dude has been doing a
rebuttal doc for four years. One dude clearly is delusional
and still in denial. So that is also a lot when it came back to Chris is October 2015, he was adamant that he didn't wanna talk about Jalen anymore. - [Doug Gottlieb] Where are you with Jalen in terms of your relationship? - [Chris Webber] Wherever it was. - Wherever it was, I mean
you know the last time-- - I mean Doug we ain't talkin bout that you ain't getting that
interview (mumbles). I'm talking about Wake Forest. I don't talk about him. I talked about him one time on the Dan Patrick
show and that was it. - But by this time Rose
was promoting a book. A book that told stories
of Webber snubbing him and the other Wolverines
during his NBA days. Not calling people back,
flaking on free tickets, flaking on hotel rooms for his friends when he made the All-Star team. And about the documentary,
Rose claimed he had initial buy-in from Webber
who then flip flopped and decided he didn't
wanna talk about his past. Only to go pitch a separate
documentary to HBO, Rose even went into greater
detail about the time Webber cursed him out at the NBA Finals. And finished a long section
on Webber by once again asking him to own his
transgressions and apologize. That really seems to be Rose's
main issue in recent years. He has blamed the continued
burial of the Fab Five legacy on Webber including coach
Fishers lack of recognition. Because he's on t.v. Rose gets
asked about this stuff a lot and he always puts the ball
in Webber's court saying, he's still haunted. - I think that something that emotionally still plagues him in a lot of ways. Come home big fella the
Fab Five brothers love you, the University of Michigan loves you. Let it do what it do. - [Narrator] In the
meantime he's out here breaking the play down
on national television. Dan Patrick got C-Webb going again in 2018. Webber said he talks to
some of the other guys. - I talk to Juwan like
every freaking other day. Ray and Juwan I talk to often I haven't talked to Jalen in a while. - [Narrator] Said his
feelings about the time out have been mis-characterized. - This whole thing of
(mocking) he doesn't know he can't come back, he so hurt about the time he's crushed, and mentally he can't
be with all five of us. Like I don't, you know. - [Narrator] Tried to explain
his seating arrangement at the Michigan Louisville Final. - And everybody was saying, well Chris went up to
his suite he couldn't, well on paper I still was
banned from the school. - [Narrator] And seconded Patrick's hopes for a Fab Five reunion but blamed Rose's
trolling for the tension. - Because I've been trolled,
I think like no human in the history of sports has been trolled by someone that consider
your friend it's tough. - [Narrator] He also went
on Sway in the Morning and said something similar,
that Rose had broken a code by making their issues public. - When he broke that code to what I feel further his
career that hurt me as a man. - [Narrator] And regarding
the trolling accusation Rose insisted he doesn't
wanna hash this conflict out in the media then he
hashed it out in the media. - I don't need to talk about
him to further my career I don't sellout I am not a media shill. I do not sell my soul in order to talk about sports on television. - [Narrator] And this response
to Webber getting made an honorary captain by Michigan
football coach Jim Harbaugh definitely seemed like trolling. - I'm elated by this
news, I'm not surprised by this news, and
respectfully it's calculated. - [Narrator] And that's more
or less where things stand. Webber says he wants to
reunite with the Fab Five and get the team's legacy back on track but he's kinda touchy and wants
all that done on his terms. Rose thinks all it will
take is Webber apologizing for his mistakes but he's
definitely not catering to Webber's touchiness
about those mistakes. It's frustrating that this
legendary fivesome fractured at what was once its tightest hinge. But I have faith that
these two will one day put aside their differences. They've both said that they
could be friends again someday. What will that take? Maybe its Webber finally
releasing a book or documentary that tell his whole side of the story. Maybe its Rose dialing down the heat a bit or the university relenting in its erasure of Fab Five history. Right now as I speak to you,
beef is keeping them apart. But maybe someday, maybe
by the time you watch this. The Fab Five brotherhood
will become whole again.
I love what SB Nation been doing recently on their YouTube channel. Their mini-series like Beef History or Rewinder are fantastic.
Honestly fuck NCAA. First they pay them nothing and then scrub their hard work of five seasons just because they took money from a rich dude who was willing to give them in order for them to support their living. and they ban them n shit? fuck em
Webber’s career spanned most of my formative years as a youth. I remember him as a rookie on the Warriors, his short stint on the Bullets, and his prime on the Kings. The video highlights a lot of the talks about Webber even back then. The dude was a bit fragile emotionally and mentally. I still remember he couldn’t get rid of the ball fast enough in crucial moments during his Kings playoff runs. He may say the timeout didn’t and doesn’t affect him, but I saw different on the court.
People talk about Shaq a lot when it comes to unrealized potential, but I’ll always have Webber as my first pick in that category. He had so much talent, touch, and athleticism. But he just seemed to have so many mental roadblocks. And bouncing around in the league until his third team to finally get it straight and near his potential says a lot. I’m not saying it’s all because of the timeout, but... correlation maybe.
16 minutes? tl;dw?
that was awesome.. best one yet imo
Damn that was good
loved the Fab Five 30 for 30
also loved Jalen since his videos with Bill Simmons
I listen to Jalen and jacoby. Been a day 1 fab five fan. Only had 1 Jersey as a kid and it was #5 Jalen Rose for Michigan.
Having said that, Jalen has been in the wrong here for like a decade. Yea C Webb lied yea and he may have lied about the Ed Martin thing. But that was a long time ago and y’all were young .
But if that’s your man’s , regardless if y’all fall out, you keep your feelings in house. People wouldn’t even know there was a ‘beef’ if it weren’t for Jalen keep talking about it. If you listened to Jalen and didn’t know any better, you’d think HE was the eventual hall of famer and former #1 pick. I’m sure C Webb has some diva ways, but we should not know it. Jalen has violated by putting ‘family’ biz on front street on his many platforms. He even went as far to bring up the time out
So for that reason, I don’t blame C Webb. Jalen paints him as a lost soul in search of himself. But WHEN Webber gets the nod for the hall it’s gonna remind people that C Webb is the only one who doesn’t even need the Fab 5 for his his place in b-ball history. Jalen forget this and talks like C Webb needs them (him). He doesn’t! And Jalen is a bit of a know it all and has an ego so when C Webb gets inducted I bet money Jalen will insert himself and the Fab 5
These are grown ass men. If Webber doesn't want to associate with people & places that left a black eye on his career anymore, that's his prerogative. If someone from your past transgressions kept bringing up this divide, wouldn't you just continue to ignore him? Jalen Rose is like the classmates.com ad that kept badgering you to sign up.