Chelsea Handler investigates her grandfather's rumoured Nazi affiliations!

comedian author and talk show host Chelsea Handler was born in New Jersey to a German mother and a Jewish American father famous for her biting humor and dry wit Chelsea has written several best-selling books and currently hosts the series Chelsea Lately Chelsea resides in Los Angeles where she has lived since she was 19 years old I am the youngest of six children my father's name is Seymour Handler and that means he's a big Jew my mother Rita stoker was German she came over to America when she was 19 for the first time and she passed away probably about six years ago my father I guess made a deal with my mother when they had children that they were going to be raised Jewish so I connect with my Judaism or the Jewish side of my family more than anything else but my mother's parents came from Germany and his name was Carl stoker and hers was Elizabeth stoker my grandparents on my mother's side I grew up with my whole life I remember being a little girl and having my grandfather Carl picked me up and carry me around and they just had this fun sense of humor and he was a very very big strong man with big strong hands my grandfather served in the second world war as a soldier whether or not he agreed with Hitler he was work serving in the German Army and then he was taken as a prisoner of war at some point to America where he stayed for several years and I believe he was in Montana and when he went back to Germany he was very eager to come and take his family and move them back to the United States my German grandmother Elizabeth definitely spoke about her life during the war way more than my grandfather did he never spoke about it we constantly joke in our family that you know we come from a line of Nazis I mean it's partly a joke but I kind of believe it's true I don't believe him a Nazi but I'm so obsessed with that period of time since I was raised Jewish I'm very curious to find out what my grandfather's involvement was during the Hitler years since my mom has passed away and since both of my grandparents on my mother's side have passed away there really isn't that much information available to me who's at the door the big baby hi so I think my brother Glenn is probably the one out of our family who knows the most history since he's so many years older he had more experience with both sets of grandparents whereas I don't so if I ever have a question or want to know an answer he's definitely the person I would ask hi Glenn what up Chels I came across across some pretty interesting stuff that um I think you're going to like about our family history actually I don't know if you're going to like it but I want you to look at it let's hop on the computer all right okay type in ancestry.com oh see I started a family tree okay here's a grandfather click on that and that's your grandfather's birth certificate really what does this say so this is the town he was born if you look up top okay so that says what is that name of that town let me show you something else it's a memoir written by Grandma stoker in 1966 it's in German though yeah you need to get that translated she was she wrote this in 1966 about the war we don't know here's a mention of Adolf Hitler de Erica Adolf Hitler degrund bear this Reich Third Reich okay well that's not all Trails I want to show you something else this is uh this belongs to our our grandfather [Music] okay well that's a Shaka with Carl Stoker's name on it October 1935. so what is this His Eye Is this his identification identification I'm presuming to the German Army could be Chelsea you need to get that translated too well then I can take this and I can take his birth certificate and go to Germany Alfie design [Music] I'm very very eager to have my grandmother's Memoirs or diary or whatever they may be translated because I think that would be really interesting and then um opening up that green leaflet with a swastika on it I kind of knew that was coming I knew he was in the war but it's very chilling to see so I know what I find it's not going to be pretty so I think that me being Jewish it's going to be pretty mind-blowing going to a place where Jews are persecuted seeing that booklet makes me wonder what kind of Allegiance my grandfather had to the Nazi party [Music] so I'm starting my journey in his hometown bakum Germany to find the truth [Music] I've sent the documents Glenn gave me to German researcher Andrea Ben Schneider so she can translate the Memoir and look into that booklet the Memoir is I think going to give me a lot of the information or the answer a lot of the questions I have and I'm hoping Andrea can tell me exactly what that green booklet means and what it may say about any sympathies my grandfather might have had with the Nazis hi hi great to see you we're getting together at a converted Factory in nearby Haruna which Andrea tells me holds some significance in my grandfather's life where what is this place oh you will find out in a sec it's mentioned in right here oh as I promised you here's the translation of the the documents written by your grandmother oh my gosh this is amazing let me point you to a couple of passages that are of particular interests like this one about your grandfather that was around 1936 through a mediation of an acquaintance your father found a position as a draftsman and he started working in his first position with the flotmen so and this is the floodman hall oh yeah [Music] oh it is yes so actually what floatman was about on this Factory was about is that he invented a kind of a sledgehammer which which made it was a big revolution in in the mining business okay but Mr flotman was one of the biggest Nazis here in town really yes and um he had joined the Nazi party actually in 1931 already so two years before Adolf Hitler actually took over the power so he was really behind the system behind the ideologic of of the Nazis so if flatman owns this Factory that we're standing in today right and he was a Nazi Enthusiast and this is where my grandfather worked exactly so that makes my grandfather what [Music] Chelsea Handler is in herna Germany where she has just learned that her grandfather Carl worked for a notorious Nazi now she wants to know if that means Carl was a Nazi too um we do not know what your grandfather had to do in order to be employed here so um that's not so easy to say oh okay I think I just got the chills somewhere so is this a memoir or is this a letter to someone I mean what is it this is a memoir it is that your grandmother starts out that that she's writing this as a request or for two of one of her daughters but it doesn't just give an Insight in the life of your grandparents but it also gives a wonderful Insight in the life of Germans of like what people went through at the time after the first world war before the second world war so it's a wonderful piece of information oh okay so so this was the time Germany had had lost the first world war they had lost a strong leadership role in their country basically the mood was everyone was hopeless everyone was hungry there was hardly any employment your grandmother speaks about this quite nicely and began with talking about her own life in the 1920s the hardship was severe it had hit Germany the hardest because we had lost the War of 1914 and the country was head over ears in debt this was not living but vegetating we had as most people did not even a slice of bread to overcome hunger oh yes I can see my mother's head vividly when she bent her head over us her tears dropping onto our cheeks when we asked for a small piece of bread saying children I don't have anything that's really sad [Music] oh I remember my grandmother totally telling us how there was no food that must have been really hard to be a parent so this was going on for so many years before Hitler even came into Power that's correct because of the first world war so I'm sure when people are in that situation they're looking for anybody to give them hope for anything to change absolutely people were just desperate by 1933 some six million Germans were unemployed desperate for Relief they were hopeful when their Dynamic new leader Adolf Hitler promised change Hitler immediately reduced unemployment with massive work projects and as the economy rebounded many Germans like Elizabeth embraced their ambitious leader unaware of the atrocities to come Adolf Hitler the founder of the Third Reich controlled the fate of the German people Hitler spelled Doom for Germany but to honor the truth he also accomplished good things definitely in the years before the war started in 1939 yeah I remember her telling me that that everybody thought he had some great ideas and they were going to come out of their economic downturn and everybody was going to have money and food again right yes so you can always see why people got behind Hitler and supported him I mean you can't really blame them when they're coming out of a situation like that absolutely is there any stuff that's more I'm like personal between absolutely yeah she does indeed go more into details about what her life was like that was around 1936 and here you have the section where she actually talks about this time when your grandparents were first married we had a small music Chapel in our community where I played piano he played violin we were happy we bought a paddle boat it's about the weekend with the boat it was a wonderful time so in many respects I think it was a wonderful time for people if you were German and not not Jewish and then it says the happiness lasted from 1936 until 1939 when the war started right it seems like my grandmother's justifying in a way all the reasons why people were in support of him or why she was in support of Hitler but also white people the population were taken by him once you can really go through everything in your head that happened you start probably wanting to justify it to yourself as well just remember the nice things or remember the good things right so there's nothing really in here that talks about Carl my grandfather's kind of political standing and whether or not he was pro-nazi or anti-nazi that's right that's correct but I promised you also that I would look into the of that document you gave me oh yeah yeah what is that so I spoke with the expert and it actually turns out that this is the sign of the sa okay which is the paramilitary wing of the Nazis right this may be bad news I mean there is a swastika on the front of it so I kind of thought it might be bad news I set up an appointment for you with an expert his name is Ralph Pierre and he's going to talk to you about this and actually if you don't mind I would like to keep this and pass it on to him already so that he can evaluate the content okay perfect well thank you for doing that you're welcome thank you I can understand why my grandfather would want to work at this Factory I mean whether he was pro-nazi or anti-nazi which I still don't know it was a job's a job when you have to provide a home for their wife so I'm not really that surprised by my grandmother so far and in this journey and research because she always was very honest about her feelings anyway as far as my grandfather Carl goes I mean that remains a mystery right now I'll find out tomorrow Chelsea Handler is in herna Germany investigating her grandfather Carl's possible affiliation with the Nazi regime I'm heading to the harness City archives to meet historian Ralph pior my grandfather's booklet with the swastika and his history working for an artist Nazi make me wonder about his involvement I know he served in the German Army but was my grandfather a Hitler Enthusiast first I need a clear picture of what the essay was the sa in Germany it's called storm up title is a bully boys it was a rowdies because the rowdies of the party they make a propaganda for Hitler so they weren't technically military or were they no they are kind of paramilitary groups right these are the brown shirts here in hand it's an original picture so Ralph tells me that the s Brown Shirts were streets policy terrorizing Jews and anyone else who opposed the Third Reich so how do I find out if my grandfather was actually a member of the SA first we got the livestocks book that's the symbol of the sa I prepared the translation for you okay we should also have a look at the at the place you heard about this phone before no no in frontenberg there was a labor service camp and your grandfather makes a sports program during his Labor Service okay created to curb unemployment Germany's Labor Service program was made mandatory by the Nazi party in 1935. in an effort to circumvent the Treaty of Versailles which forbade German military conscription after World War One Hitler offered the sports badge program at the Labor Service camps it taught Athletics and combat skills which were documented in each participant's record book promoted as Recreation the sports badge program was actually Hitler's way of secretly creating an army preparing men like Carl for war so everyone had to go through Labor Service correct yeah every young guy was forced to go to Labor Service okay that's a sports bet program was voluntary oh perks you can read the first sentences okay I hereby declare to the best of my honor and conscience that I am of German Aryan descent and free of traits of the Jewish or colored race I mean that sounds pretty racist yeah it is I am aware of the regulations for earning the sa Sports badge these are the tests that they would give these performance tests yeah the 100 meter the long jump the shot put the hammer throw so those are pretty innocent right I mean that's not military no it's athletic but physical strange and Purity and race were two sides of the same coin for the Nazis to even be part of the movement you had to prove yourself physically right sure well this says small Caliber shooting so that's militaristic oh well here is Dave examination March 15 1936 orientation terrain evaluation reporting camouflaging estimating distance so that's like front line training yes and so if if one wanted to opt out and didn't want to do the sports badge How likely you are when you were in a camp was 100 people and everybody says yes you are the only guy who said no I don't want to I see oh oh yeah no I didn't even consider that so that your grandfather makes the sports program is not a proof okay when we have a look here you see normally there must be a picture or a signature there's nothing and why wouldn't he have a picture or sign have signed it I don't know if it was a very important document for him documents don't show whether or not my grandfather was a member of the essay what documents would and where can I find that out and after Labor Service he went to military perhaps he must go to Berlin because there's a military archive okay so I need to go to Berlin then to find everything else I hope okay thank you very much for a good time Ralph I appreciate it I think looking at the documents about my grandfather and his and his time in the Labor Service it's a little bit foggy still if he was a Nazi sympathizer it doesn't make you feel good that you know when being a Jewish person that your grandfather who was German did participate in a voluntary sports program run by the essay so I mean I would just be interested to find out what kind of things he was involved in and what part of the military he was in you know was it more benign was it more kind of you know did he go and make you know was he part of like the Gestapo [Music] Chelsea Handler has traveled to Berlin on her quest to learn whether her grandfather Carl was affiliated with the Nazi party during World War II I'm eager to meet with military historian Roger moorhouse whom I've asked to look into Carl's service records I'm curious about my grandfather's experience in the Army and I hope to finally find out where my grandfather stood with the Nazi regime I've been trying to figure out whether or not he was sympathetic to the Nazi regime if he was kind of a willing participant just because of the circumstances or if he was a Nazi Enthusiast okay which is kind of important for me to know you're still in the right place I mean here where we are now is the is the German military records office which has all the all the records of German soldiers and Airmen through both world wars I've looked at some of the records here in in Berlin and I can confirm to you that he wasn't a member of the SS not a part Nazi party member and not a member of the sa well that's good to know that is not necessarily a clean bill of health and you know there's there's Many Many Shades of Gray in Nazi Germany if you bear in mind that in a Nazi party membership was only 10 of the population and yet there was within the rest of the population there's an awful lot that that uh people that could be complicit and could have done some some awful things as well okay one way that we can perhaps get an insight into his sympathies is to look at his his military document this is uh your grandfather's Soldier which is his army paybook this gives you a lot of details about him and about his army career so this is a very good resource for us answering some of those questions okay this date here is important his war starts on the 22nd of September 1939 which is quite early this is only three three weeks after the outbreak of War does the date that he entered the war have any leaning towards how enthusiastic he was I mean do we know if he wanted to go into the war at that time not particularly you'd imagine so that it might it might suggest enthusiasm but but he's conscripted this is you know this is the draft so he really had no choice about this wow so he had to leave my grandmother with [Music] this next page here actually gives you details of his promotions in his military career that's the entire record that is okay uh he goes from private and then it's two subsequent promotions to uh private first class and then to uh Corporal so that's three three this is not the sort of career of a high-flying soldier Okay but that that could mean one of two things right that he wasn't a enthusiastic or B he could just not be very talented as a soldier that could also be the case okay uh also the regiment I think is significant he begins in the 196th artillery regiment the 196th was a unit that would be considered about fourth or fifth tier oh um so they'd generally be kept in the rear uh and then if you were particularly good at what you were doing you could find promotion to the front line you know Elite regiment okay in the case of your grandfather he doesn't seem to have done that there were a couple of transfers later on but they're they're into similar regiments surprising to me about these records is that is that strong pick all of us up with one hand and he was really athletic so it's just so surprising to me to see these records and it kind of that depicts him as a very average Soldier so do you think that this kind of represents a lack of interest on his behalf or a lack of Sympathy for the war because it doesn't really match what I know about him on the balance of the evidence we have here we've got him in a in a sort of third-rate division not with not much Frontline service he's not had an awful lot of um uh promotion so he's not sort of pushing to be promoted he's not um pleasing his superiors enough to be promoted um he's not someone who's showing any evidence really of being totally enthusiastic well that's good to know so in a sense he's he's one of those sort of the the floating middle in Germany you have a sort of an extreme uh one side who are who are very enthusiastic Nazis and you have another extreme who I would be oppositional and actively oppositional and what happened to the people that were really oppositional they weren't they were in trouble they would the find persecution and and most probably death in many many instances but it's that floating middle is quite important these are the sort of ordinary Germans who went along with the regime but that doesn't mean they were necessarily Keen Nazis there's a difference between the two when I was growing up and I was a little girl my grandfather specifically I mean whenever we brought up the war there was a definite sense of embarrassment on his behalf and so that led me to believe that he was kind of ashamed of any participation he had had yet I could never really tell what to what degree that participation was I think that that sense of embarrassment is is perfectly normal right in that generation of Germans because they had you know this sense of of uh Collective guilt for the crimes of Nazis but that that doesn't necessarily imply as you have inferred that that he he personally had anything to be ashamed of and certainly the record here doesn't suggest that he has anything to be ashamed of at all right I see so does this move on to tell us where he served in the war and where he spent most of his time as we said he starts off in 196th so he's you know primarily in Germany and more or less in the training capacity the only incidence of true front combat service seems to been the second half of 1942 he then is in it moves to the 12th artillery regiment but still it's still sort of third or fourth rank regiment and he is on the Eastern front so it would have been the area to the west of Moscow fighting the Russians fighting the Soviet Army yeah that was a pretty brutal time right it would have been very cold in the winter of 1942 and the combat would have been quite horrific that seems to be his his only real experience of of uh front combat which seems to be in the second half of 1942. okay so if he was serving front and he was fighting the Easter front I know that he was taken around that time as a prisoner of war but by the Americans yes so well um it shows you here your grandfather had a tremendous Stroke of Luck oh that's a nice Switcheroo Chelsea Handler is in Berlin she has just learned that her grandfather fought on the brutal Eastern Front against the Russians now she wants to know how he was ultimately captured by Americans and we know that he is serving in the second half of 1942 in the in the Frozen west of Russia and in the middle of 1943 he's transferred from the 12th artillery regiment to the 242nd and they are stationed in the south of France so he swaps those frozen for the French review so he gets to go to San Tropez exactly wow that is pretty lucky so that's where he would have fallen into American hands okay which is a tremendous Stroke of Luck uh especially when you bear in mind that his old regiment on the Eastern Front was actually wiped out um a month before his capture in France in France so had he still been serving with the 12th um the chances are that that he wouldn't have survived and you wouldn't be sitting here really wow so is there any record of exactly where he would have been captured in the south of France we should hopefully have that in this file here that is the record of his capture by The Americans so he was captured on August 16th in 44 in Saint Raphael France correct and I know that he was taken as a prisoner of war to the states in Montana okay so um is there any more information on that on Montana what happens to him after this capture there should be details of that here in Berlin so it's something I can certainly look into here but I suggest you know the best thing is to head for some Raphael and try and find the place where he was captured no problem I'll go there I'm very relieved finding out that my grandfather Carl was definitely not a Nazi enthusiast so that was reassuring and I'm you know if anything he was just kind of a participant of a movement that was a terrible time but at least he wasn't at the helm you know that stuff had never really been confirmed through any sort of official documentation so it was really nice to see all of that [Music] where I didn't know that he was taken as a prisoner of war from the south of France so I'm intrigued to see how things went down and whether he resisted at all but I'm very happy that we're going to the south of France just because I brought a bikini even though it's not going to be warm enough I'll be wearing it so I'm heading to the French Riviera where my grandfather was captured by U.S troops I'm very curious to find out was he taken by force did he surrender willingly how did my grandfather's war end Roger suggested I speak with military historian Dr Steve Weiss who's asked me to meet him at a beach in San Rafael I hope that you have some information about my grandfather Carl I want you to meet me here because this is the most likely place where your grandfather was taken prisoner and captured on this speech really and in fact I was an 18 year old combat infantry Soldier who landed here on August 15 1944. and then you took him maybe somebody well absolutely what was it like when you guys came onto the beach where you were on boats we landed here 9 45 in the morning there are artillery emplacements around in the hills and your grandfather probably was one of the soldiers who was Manning cannons firing at us when we were trying to get across the beach oh wow we were very powerful well organized as contrast to the Germans who were not because they weren't planning to stay here and defend this area they were already leaving and so if my grandfather was here I mean were people just kind of surrendering or did you have to capture these German soldiers or did you kill a lot of German soldiers I would probably say a combination of all three but uh a soldier is not trained to surrender a soldier is to fight and I would imagine that your grandfather had a lot of emotional experience in terms of deciding whether to continue to fight or to surrender and I would imagine that in his deliberations he decided to surrender I always wondered what he must have been going through during that time I think a lot yeah so what would have happened to the prisoners once they did surrender once they were captured I have something to show you that will indicate what happened to the prisoners of War that's August 16 1944. yeah it says one day after the landings there was an American Military photographer on the beach as the German soldiers were being gathered as prisoners of War these are the big ships land the craft tanks they're going to board these ships and be taken to a prisoner of war campus wow this is amazing I can't believe you have footage of this so one of those guys is probably my grandfather one of those men could have been your grandfather just think he might be in this is pretty amazing thank you so much for showing this to me you're very welcome so how did you as Americans feel towards the German soldiers well on a personal basis because I'm Jewish it was all according who I met if I met I miss this a soldier we had a problem you could clearly identify the SS Soldier versus a regular German Soldier yes either by his uniform or his arrogance whereas the average German Soldier there was a fellowship but when it came to Nazis it was altogether different attitude I would imagine can you imagine being an SS Soldier and getting captured by a Jewish Soldier you can imagine what the world would have been like if they won being on this beach and knowing that my grandfather was here it's an amazing feeling I think he would probably be super happy to know that we know how he felt about the war and you know where he was captured it's meaningful family history for me looking today at that video and seeing the looks of relief on the soldiers faces was exactly what I wanted to see it kind of brings it all together about my grandfather and probably the way he was feeling about the war and it feels good [Music] I think also being here with Steve who's a Jewish American was kind of a great full circle for me also and I can say that I am proud to be a Jewish American thank you so much for coming and seeing me my pleasure [Music] hi Rogers Chelsea Handler all right all right Chelsea how are you I'm great how are you researching reception yeah well I'm usually wrong where was he taken do you know Iowa such a lucky girl Chelsea Handler is flying into Algona Iowa where her grandfather was sent as a prisoner of war she is about to find out how his time in the German Army came to a close race [Music] it's sad to think that my grandfather had to leave his young family back in Germany when he became a pow so I've arranged to meet with local historian Jerry Yocum who I hope can shed some light on how my grandfather's experience here transformed him from a defeated Soldier into the grandfather I knew and loved where this Airfield now stands is where the prisoner war camp Camp Algona was located so he would have spent two or years or however long he spent exactly here here in the living in barracks on this site oh wow you can imagine looking in the distance you could see up to 187 different buildings on a 287 Acre Site and Barracks that would have held up to 2500 prisoners so from Russia to the south of France to Iowa that's quite a journey that is quite easily yes many of the things that were in the uh the camp are now in a museum in Algona we'd love to show you if you'd like to go well I would love to see that well let's go okay who's driving thank you foreign [Music] cool well Chelsea we have documents in the museum that relate to your grandfather's imprisonment here would you like to see those yes yes yes yes yes service record oh my God wow I've never seen him that skinny okay so this Photograph here this is this is the first photograph when he was captured yes so this would be when he was processed so September 1st 1944 and then this would be less like almost a month later September 29th 1944. he looks very healthy uh he would have had good food regular some exercise as well as some work so how were they when they came here they were treated obviously much more humane you would expect than they would expect yes they would have expected they had been told by their government that they might be castrated they're told that they might have drug experimentation uh there were a word that there was a lot of turmoil in the U.S and this was basically I mean that whole brainwashing was sort of just to keep everybody away from America and thinking that America had any sort of good path right well that plus they want to keep them fighting they'd prefer if they didn't surrender wow that must be such a crazy thing to come over and not know if this is going to be like your personal hell or something completely different and the fact that it was something completely different is just so visible right in the photograph okay so what kind of work would he have done while he was here because this was an agricultural area they did a lot of farm work but during their off-duty time they basically had another life they were encouraged to write letters encouraged to use their artistic talents really we have some photographs here that might show what your grandfather would have been involved in to play this is these are German soldiers performing that's correct oh my gosh and here's one that also involves a little bit of music in the foreground is a Orchestra oh my God that's my grandfather there was a memoir that my grandmother had written she mentioned my grandfather played the violin wow that's so amazing that's crazy to think about huh all these soldiers I mean talk about gaining your spirit back after such a difficult time I can understand why my grandfather moved back to the U.S he loved America to be able to spend time with your comrades and the people that you served in the war with and then to come over and do a climate and situation that was completely disparate so that what they had just experienced is amazing without knowing the specifics of my grandfather's history prior to coming on this trip I don't think that I had as close of a connection with the German side of my family because I was always just a little leery of what their connection was in the war and I would be being Jewish and being raised Jewish you know I just assumed Germans were bad but that's the ignorance I feel I may have started this trip with although it's so Admiral to speak up there are times where you know he could have done more good than harm by not speaking up you could you know risk being killed having your family members killed having your children killed so I think for my grandfather it was a really tricky time to participate without rocking the boat it's been an amazing journey to Iowa thank you thank you for holding down the fort here thank you that's a really good life lesson for anybody especially someone who's as obnoxious and outspoken as I am to just kind of put your head down and trudge forward I don't have that I have a much bigger mouth than he did and so I have a lot of respect for him [Applause] thank you

Channel: Who Do You Think You Are?

Views: 714,737

Keywords: who do you think you are, wdytya, who do you think you are uk, who do you think you are BBC

Id: KpdiZUL1hmM

Length: 40min 2sec (2402 seconds)

Published: Sun Mar 19 2023