Lee Kuan Yew is here as Singapore's founding fathers served as Prime Minister for more than 30 years until 1990 he now serves as Minister mentor to the current Prime Minister his son at age 86 is regarded as an elder statesman on the global stage whose views are widely sought is in the United States for meetings in New York with people like Henry Kissinger in Washington with people like the chair in the Federal Reserve Ben Bernanke and the president the World Bank Bob Zoellick will also receive a Lifetime Achievement Award from the us-asean Business Council I am pleased to have him back at this table to get a worldview that he is highly regarded for understanding the dynamics of the world that we have come from and the world that we are going to so welcome thank you um where are we you think in terms of a kind of world order we have gone through the in the 89 and 90 the collapse of the Soviet Union the collapse of the Berlin Wall then we had the United States engaged in the Middle East in a long war that continues then we had the global economic crisis so many people say what is going to come out of this well I see the imbroglio in Iraq and Afghanistan as distractions it's not going to change the world whatever happens to Iraq or Afghanistan because the major changes that are taking place is the recovery of China until release extent of India the places they occupy two centuries or three and a half three centuries ago before Western colonization blanketed them three centuries ago they would between the two of them 60 percent of the world GDP just the population and the production that you put out China's again on the growth path she is now a number of WTO she knows that every year she is growing faster than anybody yours and can do that for another 20 30 years because they've got such an enormous number of workers back in the West in the hinterland 8 9 percent 10 percent no trouble at all but after that and they reach a ceiling where the labor is concerned and they got to up increase productivity but by then in 30 years they would have an economy in not per capita but in total terms bigger than the USA which means they've got resources to build up political strategic and other influence and in fact in anticipation of that people already treat her differently because they know that this is going to be a big fellow around the block this is a watershed I mean the world order that we knew was dominated by the Caucasian people's Europe technology sailing ships and aircraft they conquered the world industrialization globalization global industrialization personal agenda globalized and American is the extension of Europe with a difference and she's more embracing other races the 20th century was the American Century but first half of the 21st century a large part of it will still be the American but I believe the second half you have a share top places with China and also with Indian make space for them too you have said in a speech I read just today that the relationship between the United States and China based on what you just said has become the most important global geopolitical issue yes or condescension yes how they both handle it from the shiny side in a very pragmatic almost cold-blooded in pinnacle fashioned on the American side that's been some vacillation first China's and adversary strategic adversaries and China's a strategic partner and China's a stake holder than China's not carrying his weight but I china wants to be as in the famous words of Bob Zoellick neither president of World Bank and they want to be a stakeholder because Bob Zoellick coined that phrase in Singapore I think well I mean whatever it was it was you know and the Chinese were wondering what that meant they didn't know what stake over there they now know yes they look topic dictionaries Avedon to get much out of it they discuss it with friends and I'm one of the friends so I said to them well that means although you're not a shareholder in the company you have an interest in the company because you sell to the company and if the company goes bust you've got no customer and if you've got no customer your trade will go down and you have unemployment so you have an interest in keeping that company going and they have an interest in keeping you going because you are a good customer you're good producer for them cheap goes cheap products and good quality well there's great hope that they will become more of a consuming economy and will become more of a saving account you point that out the Chinese had 4,000 years or 5,000 years of all kinds of catastrophes earthquakes floods famine invasions where the central government failed entirely and you can know nobody can help you you've got to help yourself let me tell you this anecdote I was having my game left shoulder from golf being massaged by a very superior Chinese master who attends with their leaders and they sent him down to try and fix my game shoulder and he fixed it in three weeks so we had to chat because I have 45 minutes on the couch what can I do so there was a flood up the Yangtze River so our now you you've opened up you get lots of relief supplies he looked at me puzzled this is you don't understand the relief supplies will arrive in Shanghai the floods will prevent it from reaching the villages and each village knows that is going to happen from the other time and up on a little hill they keep the rice the salt and all the essentials see so that they will survive such a calamity and that habit just like the Japanese have the kit underneath their bed for earthquakes that is their habit of surviving so they stuff the money under the pillow as banks run trustworthy or gold and that habit is not going to change and have it take a long time it would take one two generations of affluence and then it may happen in the cities and it's not going to happen in the countryside you say this about America as well you talk about the Chinese as having having patience and they have persistence and they have discipline and they have organization but you say America has something special that will be part of the inevitable competition it is its resilience and more importantly its creativity yes of course look it's not just American talent that gets you here you're just 300 million people and they got 1,300 million and there are very many more able people but you are attacking all the adventurous minds from all over the world and embracing them and that they become part of your team now I don't see to two million Indians and half a million other peoples Japanese careers and others becoming part of China first the language is so difficult yes secondly the culture is not embracive how do you fit in what should the United States do as it looks at at the inevitable growth of China as a dominant player what would be a wise foreign policy I think because you have two or three decades before it reaches its full strength no I think because you have two or three decades before it reaches its full strength even in three decades it won't reach its full strength in three decades its per capita is still about one third of another time its gross domestic product but the for it to reach America standard of living and standard of technology will take more than a hundred years so should the United States do while it has the position it has now I think make sure that they feel that they are accepted at the top table make sure the China feels like it's accepted at the time yes your place is waiting for you when you make it but you've got to play by the rules of the game and the key really is whether the next generation this generation understands it they know that they have no chance competing against the West America especially in technology and especially in military technologies absolutely no chance let me build a aircraft carrier to guard the shipping lines where the carrier oil and other is the first time where the Chinese are growing but dependent on the world for his resources but they're going around the world signing up contracts in Iran and in Africa absolutely but before that is all within the Chinese Empire they don't have to worry about the rest of the world this time they have to worry about the rest of the world because without the resources the oil cayenne horn nickel it whatever the growth will stop will they be able to create the domestic demand that's necessary as they fund exports reduced slowly but in the meantime that's keeping the economy going by enormous expenditure on infrastructure in the West high-speed grows high-speed railways have ports telephone lines bringing water from the south up to the northwest added and dry huge enormous mammoth projects that keeps it going will India have an advantage some argue because it's democracy and China is not let me put it this way India were as well organized as China it will go at a different speed but is going at the speed it is because it is India it's not one nation as many nations it has 320 different languages and 32 official languages so no Prime Minister in Delhi can at any one time speak in a language and be understood throughout the country you can do that in Beijing so in the end do you think that system will change in Beijing I think it will have to change as the people get more and more urbanized today is about 40 percent urban on less than 40 percent Oban more than 60 percent rule when you reach the tipping point and 60 70 percent are urban with mobile phones PDAs you can download anything you want send any messages you want it's already had its effect I mean these this one earthquake in the oldest nobody would know about it except seismologist to say were such an earthquake took place here immediately SMS all the Chinese knew the world you and they had to go public and the Prime the Prime Minister took a Plane full of Pressman and went then tried to comfort them and show them that there be so you're saying that communication and and technology and the flow of information will have an impact and impendent and the urbanization if you're in a countryside that's different you can be isolated but when you enter together in an urban center and they are planning ten urban centers with 40 billion people each that's their plans on the plans on the greater scheme of things forty billion people in four mega cities always you know you can cause the meeting anytime you want she's gonna write anytime you want so it's a different world therefore you have to pay attention to what people think and today they are watching the internet very carefully because they know what of what the average person and it in the cities are thinking now what are they afraid of where is their fear of it's not afraid they just do not they just do not want to lose control we also they afraid of control no they are afraid that they will lose control of the situation in the old is way back in Mao's days everybody is dependent on the state the state is the only employer and everybody has what you call a hookah hookah sir a residence permit and if you lose your job because your auntie the governor for you're a crook or whatever you've had it there's no other employer but today there multiple employers all come so people have options yes absolutely and that means the government has lost control over the people I mean they can be entrepreneurs they can they run their own businesses shops whatever it is but are they moving towards some form not a Western form some form of more participation in the political process they are opting all the successful people into the communist system that's it that's as much politics John Simon calls it the three representatives so whether you're an artist whether you're a businessman whether you're an activist I could anybody who's got the extra drive to contribute for Greater China come and join us coming out of a global economic crisis even though the United States is a dominant country there it is forced to look to build and to engage and build coalitions on a whole range of big issues and there is never now a guarantee of unanimous support it's hard to put together for example sanctions against Iran the Iran is a special case Iran got oil and gas the Chinese desperately needs any oil and gas Russia is playing a game with Iran Russia does need oil and gas but Russia wants to cut the u.s. down to size and remind the u.s. you need me to run the war with the Chinese they have they are doing their calculations I think in extremists they must know if they bug the world it was the Russian says all right clearly I would bet 5050 that a Chinese will also say so the Russians say well it will engage in sanctions the Chinese will follow they would not want to be the odd man out and be held responsible what if the United States would find another partner another supplier of energy for Iran hahaha no in place of you yes well you find well that in the Middle East and Saudi Arabia in her not possible not buzzer wrong but I had a Chinese diplomat say to me that they would be they would welcome that that if in fact they did not have a necessity of needing Iranian oil they would go along with sanctions because they don't think they need your inordinate Arabian are denied you didn't or do need a goal or orders and it all they all they can find anywhere yes of course for the to fuel the economic growth are paying at 8% absolutely tell me about Russia and what how you see Russia today well look I'm doing a little bit of business in Russia yes I'm also a member of the Board of Governors of the scholar Koval Business School invited to join it by Medvedev was now the president so I speak as one who is a semi semi Russian colleague I would say they would do enormously data if they could get their system right the systems not as functioning a lot less functional as it should be because it has gone haywire you have lost control over the various provinces put in the standard bring it back to the center but it's difficult what do you think of the relationship between Putin I bet it everybody knows that mr. Medvedev is a very friend of put in and also knows that mr. Putin is a very powerful fellow and mr. medve that is working through a very powerful men called silly walkies who are all from the FSB this is something which is the former KGB yes I mean so I would I would not miss it mr. Medvedev is a highly intelligent man he's a good friend of put in and he sees no reason why I should want a class reporting and mr. Putin will return to be president another day I would say the probabilities are high but you also said in this speech they read that their capabilities of Russia are limited the capabilities are limited well they've got enormous er a nuclear arsenal but what else the army is very different now there are force they're building new fighters but I mean their Navy yes and their population is declining is alcohol drugs and pessimism if you're you're every more Russians died and Russians are born because people are not optimistic in America people are optimistic and see right now I bring a child up until you bring a child into the world but when your life is so harsh and from time to time it gets better when the oil price goes up but that's a good moment er you have a different view of the future so what's the point of this what about Japan back to Asia I think the Japanese need an overall terms of that political system yeah and in terms of their acceptance of immigrants their birth rate is one point the fatigue fatigue theory is just slightly higher than ours well one point two nine nine one one three and you're shrinking but we are a small population so we are then we can make up with any numbers from young bright Indians bring bright Chinese young bright Malaysians and all the people around the world and some released as you we now have Ukrainians serving in our army our citizens because there's a Ukrainian Xin Singapore yes of course Russians to East Europeans and Britishers were married our local girls and British women who married Singapore men but Japan does not want immigrants so they are stuck today they have 3.2 working persons to support one adult in 20 55 they love 1.2 percent to support one adult and immigrants has been America's strength absolutely but my new immigration of the highly intelligent and highly hard-working very hardworking people if you get immigration of the food Pickers you may not get very far huh I met some a Chinese delegation recently who's here in the last couple of weeks and I said to in a very important member of the government at the highest level but very important what are you doing here he said we're trying to get highly brewed educated Chinese so go back yes yes of course go back and I said well what do you say to them say to them you'll have opportunity and I say to them the homeland needs you that's what he said that doesn't sell what sell is you can leave anytime you want and I allow your children special educational facilities and all of you can keep your American green card or passports and networks well I'm not sure it'll work but they'll go back and and test the waters some but will you'll go back stay maybe because for the older generation you're emotionally tied up but will your children stay no they're the upbringing has been here and they go back to China and they say well obviously regimented society papa greenback so no there's no comparison I mean you do and there's chalk and cheese yes between the two societies especially for young children who can see how independent American children are can grow up and become anything you want beatniks if you like or need to use a little expression or whatever in china and you come out like sausages yes exactly sir so will the Chinese be able to say one of the things that you point to in terms of this relationship between this competition you say China and the United States will have competition but they must avoid conflict sure no I think both sides don't want calm they don't want color China wants to spend time focusing on its internal development its economic development china wants time to grow to grow if there's going to be any conflict that's postponing for 50 years but inevitably at some point as China grows it's going to want to be the dominant nation in the world because they'll have but it is not going back to town China or Han China where they were the only dominant power in the world this time they're going back to a world where there are several dominant poles that's as inventive and more creative than them so we're looking at a multipolar world yes absolutely we'll never go back to sort of the kind of thing that we had between the Soviet Union and the United States no there'll be the US by Bashara the Indians are going to be themselves they're not going to be anybody's lucky they may not be as big as China and GDP then you also suggest they've got to develop a manufacturing yes of course you're going to have Europe would be an economic force it will not be a strategic political or military force because they can't get together your foreign policy it's inevitable that they can never get together I'm not saying it's inevitable but if you look at them that's too 27 different nations I mean they won't accept one language although they all use English as a second language but you tell them that in Brussels you speak as a French or English or either your language or English which is what is actually happening in committees the absolutely refuse so how long will let the subject to disappear I don't know it may never happen take a take Singapore yes you have said that you have sample has to maintain its relevance yeah it has to be a place that people want to invest in it has to be a place go ahead it has to be a place that's useful to the world otherwise it wouldn't exist and that's what you had created since the founding of the modern car city-state we have made ourselves relevant to the world and how will you maintain your relevancy by keeping on changing you cannot maintain your relevance by just staying put the world changes there are shifts in the geopolitics and the economics of the world we're going to watch it and we're going to write it yourself with them as the self comes as the way you write the sir we are keeping our links with America with Japan with your they grow brought us to where we are and you're not gonna have to choose sides no other nation left Italy refused to choose sighs bummer we will not choose sighs between America and China or between China and India but I just read today and announcement by your sovereign wealth fund in Singapore of a bike over what 1.3 billion dollars in new investments none coming for the United States going to China to India to Brazil and forgotten where else that's just 1.2 billion out of 300 billion is just but none to the United States mostly going to but yet all the great countries yeah but the United States at the moment is in somewhat of her unstable state is the dollar going to decline what he yes it is cheap but supposing you buy and the deficit screw and bam melaka is unable your federal federal chummy's unable to draw enough liquidity out of muck and you got hyperinflation Wow it record down and you've lost money so everybody is hedging and this is a very so they're heading by looking at other places too everywhere you tell me tell me where if it's not the United States there's no way to go right now we go to the parties of the euro you know we're not going to very little to Japan Australia New Zealand the RMP the Chinese UN is a highly controlled again little cooperation when you go down and you're not quite sure which way is going to go whereas in the u.s. you can look at the figures and can read the federal reports every time they make a decision and you can make your guess you also said the China and the ice age they both have to change their mindset yeah what did you mean that well for the Americans you've got to cease to think in terms of the Chinese as of they are today the Chinese as they are today people who have been suffering for very long time especially on the ball and will feel that the world is cruel to them and therefore they are very edgy the Chinese yeah if you talk to Chinese leaders now those over 60 all with Russian SF second language line in 20 25 years time you're going to meet a generation who are now in the lower ranks for being to America and Britain and Europe and will be english-speaking and have different models in their minds and they will know that they are not going to be the sole power in the world whatever again because it's a globalized world and they know that they are dependent on the world for their growth the resources learning so they're going to be part of the world yes before I mean before meaning up till the time when they're called British and the others colonial eyes them in a partial way everything grew within China whatever they needed they captured territory then they found global markets george HW bush invited them to south america he was the US represented before they had called ambassadors and he had a liking for them they were good to him so since you you said was and they sold and he succeeded and they say yeah this is this is the way to get out of our poverty that was your friend done shopping it's yes yes yeah then they got into the World Trade Center as a member w I've just met Bob Rubin today and he and earlier I Henry Kissinger I told him that Clinton turned down to room key for this WTO right so he said to that's a great mistake because if you turn them down all they will do is to be a spoiler deal reverse-engineer audio pittance and you find generic products imitations on a hollow right now bring them in get them to observe the rules well that's a big if here you gotta get them to observe the room they are going to have to observe the rules and they will and they understand no because they're going to this they are making patience of their own now they want to open the markets around the world that should be a part of the global economy no no they are doing research almost in every sector now including life sciences here's which is something as Singapore got involved in very much with stem cell why did you do that well we figured out there were this smart fellow sir so forgive them whatever we do they will do in time and better but there are some areas where they will take a very long time to be able to do what we are doing and has to change the system from opacity to transparency from no protection for copyright the protection for copyright and rule of law there are two rules of law in China one for the ordinary citizen and the other for 76 million members of the Communist Party and the judges will do what they know what the leaders require to keep the country stable so would you look we've got all the big pharma companies in Singapore yes they're not in China they will sell them because you have protection you have rule of law you have protection of their everywhere doing joint research with them on the up on the effect of these new drugs on various types racial types of the population can you make an argument that a country who leads in technology and science it'll play along it will go a long way in terms of their place in the world yes of course that's why I think the US would still will still very powerful and considerable inventor and creator of new products when you look at the US and its relationship and its concern about oil and its politics in the Middle East you think it's a distraction you think that you know I'm not saying the Middle East is a destruction I think trying to make a country out of Afghanistan is a destruction there was no country for the last 3040 years they've just been fighting each other since the last King was chased out right how on earth are you going to put this little bits together it's not possible so therefore you do what I'm not an expert but in my simple mind it strikes me a few won in here and you won in Afghanistan not because you fought a Taliban but because you got the Northern Alliance to fight them exactly and you provided a northern alliance with intelligence and the capability is to bomb them and target them and they captured the self oh yeah but I may have got governance problems over there too that's all right but that's that problem why do you want to make it your problem so what would you do would you pull all the troops out and let whatever it happens to Afghanistan happens to Afghanistan it's not that threatening to the United States is that the argument I don't know about that because I think it cannot be more difficult for the analysis and heaviest troops stuck there that the Russians are a brutal ruthless so a lot of army people 120,000 of them were there but they had to leave yeah and we helped that because we supported them Mujahideen there the Mujahideen had a lot of support from around the world who wanted to see the Soviet Union take it but whether or not the Soviets helped them to get the Americans out I think the Americans and the NATO troops the NATO members are very skeptical of the outcome they even to the point of not wanting to send their troops in certain kinds of combat areas quite right yes of course because you got shot for nothing but those who argued that it if Afghanistan is abandoned first of all the world will say or people will say look you left Afghanistan once before after the Soviet said left and now you're leaving again the United States has to stand for something and it has to show that it's prepared to stay you know by that at all you know right yeah you must have a wonderful conversation with your friend Henry Kissinger no no no where do you and Henry Kissinger differ on an ah look a view of the u.s. role in the world I don't think we share does any difference is that right how would you define it I think the US can be a benign stabilizer of the world order a benign stabilizer here without the US this issue would never have grown you brought peace and technology trade and investments and each issue flourished that's clears happened in East Asia all that Singapore and North and South Korea absolutely through and you should know how do we do that in the Middle East how do we do that when you've got the kind of conflict that's taking place yeah you can't solve all the problems in the world ah some problems just got to be resolved and so what are your priorities for Singapore no for the United States wouldn't I be the priorities I cannot fit you know I'm not an American I do not calculate in American terms I calculate what Americans are likely to do in relation to what what happened to me yeah well that's that's why they listen to you that's why you're gonna see mr. Bernanke tomorrow and that's why you're going to see Larry Summers and that's why you're going to see all these American officials they want to know how you assess the way the world is working today and your central message is you got to engage you got to make the Chinese feel like they are a worthy part of the world community and you got to help them join the PTO and all the things they want to do know they're for each other I know they've joined but you got to make sure that you guys are treated fairly you've got to make sure that they understand membership requires certain obligations and the obligations start with responsibility but you also say about the United States it has to realize that most problems need an American participation in order to be solved yes absolutely absolutely so you and I had a conversation once about about a whole range of leaders and you said to me the man that you most admired of all the people you'd ever met was young chapter here that's what you don't hear don't shopping admired YouTube because he said Chinese 30 40 thousand of them to Singapore to figure out what you were doing am i right there's what was it you were doing that he wanted to see he was astonished when he came for the first time in 1978 to tell us to prevent my vietnam from invading Cambodia because they're doing it on behalf of the Russians then he found a Singapore which was contrary to what he was given in his brief yes he found a prosperous orderly society everybody owning their own homes and with a job so I said how did you get here so we educated our people and look at all these companies Americans Japanese Europeans they bring technology they trade our people will learn how to do things and because we're cheaper after a while we become general managers and company managing directors and we learn how to do that and become suppliers to them so he said oh you made use of capitalism to build any more egalitarian society everybody who's ever home I will do the same and he did he did he did he went back and you collect twelve special economic zones son Zhang Quan Chau Shanghai Italian and so on father caught sausages and has succeeded so he was the greatest man you ever met because no they understood because of the results he changed the nation and therefore he is a member of the old guard he fought in the long march he chased the KMT out across the Yangtze he led he was a victim of the Cultural Revolution yes but he was realistic he knew the system was not working he knew that they were going to end up down in the deep hole and he decided against though against all the advice of his fellow old gods that we would change near the brains and the power to pull it off yes and when he tried to stop him in 1992 from going too fast he went down to sunshine and said learn from all countries in the world and most of all learn from Singapore the order is good and they are a very prosperous society you could never had a moment that you thought Singapore was too authoritative have you not one moment my job is to get the place going and if everybody are decent life and a decent education and we are now the best educated people in the whole of East Asia our universities we've got three four universities fourth one coming up so the end justifies the means whatever it might not know is that the is were laudable everybody was the same as everybody was good education good health a good life and their children do better made it their means I had the consent and support of the population if they oppose me and they did not cooperate it would never you were in control of everything no issue were you no but the numbers of people who are opposing me including the Communist atom in the very early years me was Angus brings me to President Obama yes what are your observations about him he's a very great and eloquent man who could very persuasive and is very able and his appointed very able people into his all three positions and what impressed me most of it is repetitive appoint people with opposing different minds for instance on his economic team Larry Summers and Paul Walker and they're both very strong-minded people Larry Summers has look Martin much more influence in Paul Volcker yeah but whatever it is he's got to make the final judgment so he wants to listen to smart people who have different views that's one thing you admire what would you want to ask him what would you want to know about him but two things first that the 21st century will be a contest for supremacy in the Pacific because that's where the growth will be that's where the bulk of the economic strength of the globe will come from now if you do not hold your ground in the Pacific you cannot be a world leader the world leader must hold his ground in the Pacific that's number one number two to hold a gun in the Pacific you must not let your fiscal deficits and your dollar come to grief if it comes to grief in the in the short term and just a run on the dollar for whatever reason because our deficits are too big and the world the financial community the bankers and all the hedge funds and everybody come to a conclusion that you're not going to tackle these deficits and they begin to move their asses out that's real trouble and there is a risk of that perception today absolutely yes and then be lucky no sir and he's got somehow the other to clean up and sup soak up the liquidity but if it does it too soon you get into another recession but you cannot build up enormous deficits that allows all and do nothing about it people say oh this is hopeless here there's always a Treasury they can order there's always a Federal Reserve they'll make more money there no I can't do that they just print one more that will print money there's a difference so the deficits the looming deficit of the United States is what worries you the most because it will strike at the heart of the u.s. global leadership absolutely absolutely I mean that's what happened right that's why we are in this recession global recession after Afghanistan and then Iraq questions were raised about America's credibility its respect in the world it went down correct or not you never bought it no it didn't go down it I think people were roughed up you know by saying you're either with me or you're against me yeah and we don't need you we'll go it alone you do need them you cannot go it alone and all that ruffled everybody up that was not necessary but this happened and it's water under the bridge and then the President Obama is taking care of that in terms of the way he himself that's all right but now he's got to prove by his actions that he can really implement this new policy of togetherness that's one thing but it seems to me you are saying that the most important question people have about America here a is it leadership and the most important thing they have about America's leadership is its economic leadership can it take care of its own house because China is growing at 8% in the second half of 2009 and it looks better and better as it goes down Chinese economy is nothing compared to the American economy because the basis wants you what you're stabilized but what the world wants to know or what the thinking part of the banking and financial world wants to know is that the Americans the administration and the Congress both Republicans of Democrats have the will to take tough measures to put this right even if it's not going to be done overnight but it is moving in that direction it was going to put it right okay how do they do that you we have created all this nice um you take health care it's not going to be done at the same price surely you're covering 40 million extra people so where's the money coming from now if the world sees that you're not making any provisions for that without letting it go and then says well this looks this looks as if the conch elected leaders have lost their will to confront the people with the truth is it more the Congress than the president both both are sir are you confident that the United States will do something about its deficit which is at one point three trillion dollars for the last well if I'm not confident and I have no hope of that I wouldn't be here simple is I be here meaning be in America and wanting to understand what you're doing and what is going to come out of this of your policies so I meet people who were in the administration or in the administration to understand the thinking the feel and the their gut feeling of what's happening what's the most important change a most significant change in your way of thinking about the world over the last twenty years that the impossible can happen I never thought the the Soviet Union will improved so easily and I never thought the Chinese would abandon the communist system and I'd move into the free market so readily it was unthinkable 20 years ago both has happened the world has changed and it's not clear exactly how it's all gonna know it it is not exactly clear when it will happen exactly but that it will happen now in the long term 5,200 years yes and the center of gravity is shifting to Asia must be because the populations there that the talent pool of 1.3 billion people as a Japanese the Koreans and the Vietnamese and the others so it can match Europe and America but that talent pool was inert did not have science and technology did not care about science and technology but now everything that you do Asia is doing you go into stem cell research we are going to the stem cell research Tania Singapore has to go do it in order to get into a field with the scientists cannot compete with us when the Chinese are in it in a very big way they are watching you and whatever you do say oh yes we were we will do that we are far behind of course but given time they will catch up they're enormous ly curious they are enormous Lee kiri not just curious they're enormously ambitious to catch up for good reasons and for good ends that you must ask them but I think the reason is they have to have a sense of frustration that they were down for so long let's make it now yes our chance and the United States to encourage them no you don't have to encourage them you just got to understand that ya know they don't want to be an honorary member of the West unlike Russia they're quite happy to be Chinese and to remain as such so when you tell them you ought to do this you ought to do that they say yes thank you and in the back of their minds we have lost at five thousand years have you that Beijing Olympics of you washing what was the message go back know 5,000 years and don't forget we invented all these things and we're going to go ahead and next 5,000 years is the only country where language has survived 5,000 years the only country by the present generation shares the same basic thinking as the past and they're very proud of it I mean you read who shin tau speech on the 60th anniversary I mean it's all translated on the web now what is it we have 5000 years of civilization we are going to get there and it's a rousing speech it may take us a long time as you can work very hard we will do it that's the move so you don't have to encourage them what you got to get them to understand is with it goes responsibility hungry Africans hungry sick other people this is a global problem you can't just take copper gold and your Hamlet you got to have a responsibility but the people's copper and gold your mining it goes with the job and they will have to learn that I think they're already beginning to learn that's what they're giving something back it's pleasure to talk to you again as always
