Celtics Coach Joe Mazzulla Reflects On Last Season's End, Tatum & Brown and His Team's Mindset Today

welcome to the old man of the three with JJ reck and Tommy alter brought to you by 342 Productions this is episode 176 Joe moula uh the return of our coaching series I so enjoy doing these coaching series and for me it's really interesting to get sort of Inside the Mind of a coach and all that goes into coaching um and we talk with Joe about x's and o's a little bit um but Joe is a big on on mindset and we get into a lot on mindset both as a coach and how he sort of uh views the mindset of players and and kind of connects on a on a granular level with each player uh based on mindset um full disclosure I flew up to Boston on Friday to interview Joe sat sat in his office uh had a lovely chat pre and poost interview um had no hint whatsoever that any trade was about to go down and then of course Sunday we find out uh Drew holiday is going to the Celtics uh so I don't necessarily think uh we missed anything um but we didn't get his reaction uh of course and his insight to this trade uh so we don't have that we covered the Damen Lillard trade and the Drew Holiday trade extensively on the old man in the three things on Monday with the guys from the dunker spot uh if you want to hear uh a longer version uh and our and our our full analysis of those two trades uh you can find the old man of the three things on Amazon music you can find it on the rry Plus app uh so go give that a listen uh for that show by the way I have a little bit of an announcement for that show The Old Man of the three things uh which comes out every Monday uh look we have to do uh 44 is episodes of the old man of the three things uh we are excited to announce that dunker spot guys are going to do half of those shows with me and Tim legler Tim legler one of the goats in NBA analysis has agreed to do roughly half of those episodes so you guys will be getting uh some amazing NBA analysis every Monday during the season from myself the dunker spot and Tim legler uh you can subscribe on Amazon music Amazon Prime 1ry plus whatever uh old man of the three things please go check that out we're excited to bring you those episodes for those of you who watch the show on YouTube uh as normal we will continue to put out uh a couple breakout videos one or two breakout videos from all of the old man of the three things episodes uh on Mondays uh on our YouTube channel uh so go hit subscribe on that uh on the trade wanted to get into Championship odds for a second and this segment is is brought to you by draftking Sportsbook um so I want to look at how these odds have shifted because to me uh the Celtics and the Bucks were already tier one Championship contenders tier one uh I had them along with the Lakers the Suns and the nuggets as my five teams that I felt had the best chance going into this season to win a championship and there's a number of other teams that are in that tier two I probably put the Warriors right outside tier one um but those five teams to me I I I think are are built the best for a championship as of right now interestingly enough the next three teams with the highest odds on draftking sports book Denver Nuggets plus 500 Phoenix Suns plus 600 LA Lakers plus 12200 next team after that Golden State Warriors plus 1300 so the draftking sports book tends to agree with me or maybe it's the other way around I'm not sure and then of course you add this two amazing players Damen lard one of the greatest players of all time going to the Bucks to pair with Giannis uh incredibly excited about the pick and roll with Giannis I don't think Giannis has ever had a pick and roll partner like Damen Lillard and of course I don't think Damen Lillard has had a pick and roll partner like Giannis uh Dame's ability to stretch the defense bringing the bigs higher bringing the pickup Point higher what is that going to do that's going to create more space for Giannis in any sort of roll scenario and we all know Giannis is a willing passer great playmaker uh to me this trade it benefits Dame it benefits Giannis Giannis will be even more efficient than he's been uh by playing with Damen Lillard uh so their offense is going to have a number of options uh you can run an inverted pick and roll Dame screening for Giannis uh which you know they've done in the past I don't think anybody as good as Dame has screened for Giannis yet in his career uh that's how good Dame is and then on the Celtics side um was really high on them post porzingis trade they essentially traded uh Marcus Smart for Drew holiday and added porzingis I mean that's one way to look at it right when you think about how they've played over the last two seasons when they've made these deep uh playoff runs of course finals in 2022 and and game seven of the E Conference Finals this year um their lineup optionality is really interesting to me really interesting uh they can play small they can play big uh Joe talks about that uh during our interview uh playing those two bigs together another thing he talks about is is uh sort of the shot variance and shot selection maybe looking a little different than it did last year as he looks to exploit some switching matchups and getting porzingis getting Tatum getting Brown uh more postup opportunities so for both these teams just really really high I I and and the Blazers I think got a great return but the Bucks and the Celtics are the beneficiary of this uh of course uh when the odds open on DraftKings sports book um the Celtics opened at plus 500 the Bucks open at plus 6 650 uh following the the Lillard trade uh the Celtics State at plus 500 the Bucks moved to plus 390 they were the favorites and as of right now following the Drew trade these are the two co- favorites to win the NBA championship both both at plus 400 on DraftKings sports book um equal odds as well plus 180 to win the Eastern Conference Final I think the real loser in this trade the real losers I should say in this trade uh are the Miami Heat uh of course who didn't get Damen Lillard and the Philadelphia 76ers so the Portland Trailblazers executed two trades where two of the teams that were contending for the Eastern Conference last year they lost out right you know there wasn't a three- team trade as I suggested last week where Drew ends up in uh Philly with maxi and James Goes to the Clippers and you know picks and players gets rerouted to Portland that didn't happen uh the Bucks and the Celtics got better and uh it just got reported that uh James Harden might miss media day so to me the Heat and the Sixers are are the real losers in this trade uh I don't see a scenario outside of uh you know health and injuries where uh the Celtics and the Bucks aren't the two best teams in the Eastern Conference this year uh that's how good these two teams look on paper I'm not saying the players and the teams are losers I'm saying they've lost in this scenario okay there's a big difference they're not losers Joel embiid is not a loser okay Jimmy Butler is not a loser I'm not saying that want be clear download the draftking Sportsbook app now and use code JJ to sign up new customers can bet just $5 and take home $200 instantly in bonus bets only on draftking Sportsbook with code JJ the crown is yours gambling problem call 1800 Gambler or visit www.1 1800 gambler. net in New York call 8778 hope Andy or text Hope NY 467 369 in Connecticut help is available for problem gambling call [Music] 8887895118 partner Golden Nugget Lake Charles Louisiana 21 and over age varies by jurisdiction void in Ontario see Sports book. kings.com basketball for eligibility terms and responsible gaming resources bonus bets expire 7 days after issuance eligibility and deposit restrictions apply lots to get into with Joe Missoula uh love chatting with him uh really really fascinated and and known Joe now for uh a year and uh we get into all of that in our conversation uh let's get to our interview with Joe Missoula all right let's welcome in Boston Celtics coach Joe Missoula Joe thanks for doing this man oh I'm excited thanks for having me um little background first so we were supposed to do this in July and as I was flying up here this morning I was like you know it's fitting we're doing it now this weekend in particular um because it was a year ago I'm telling my perspective on this it was a year ago I was coming up to Boston had this trip planned uh my wife was at of town I was going to take my kids to my best friend's house in casset and uh I called Austin a and I said hey dude can Sunday morning can we go play golf at uh at Old Sandwich he's like absolutely would love to host you Friday night I get a call from Brad you had been named uh interim head coach Y and you happened to join the force and try to convince me to come join the staff and I feel like most of that 4 and a half hour round of the subsequent lunch was us talking about what my role would be and all this stuff and maybe I did ask you this but uh those few days from being named interim head coach to the start of training camp media day all that stuff what were your emotions what was going through your head during those those few days well first I thought we had a chance at getting you and then we go through the clubhouse to walk out and you're like so when does training camp start and I was like uh Monday and it was Friday and so I was like this guy put all this thought into w coach he doesn't even know when the season starts it was it was try Camp started Tuesday I what did you need be here it was a Sunday morning you go Sunday was Sunday yeah and you go Tuesday and I go huh I was like he ain't coming no it was funny because I caught myself mid round and I I I I wasn't wasting your time I was no I knew you were I I gave it some serious thought and when you called me when Damon left in the middle of the season I gave that some serious thought too um but I caught myself mid round cu Austin goes what what other golf stuff do you have coming up and I go I'm playing Pine Valley on the 17th yes and I and then I was like I looked at you and you kind of were like oh this dude it was a good time I knew you weren't wasting your time like I I thought it was an authentic I appreciate it look like the decision to go into coaching is hard like there people go into coaching for different reasons you know and so it it's it's definitely a choice that has a major impact on every facet of your life it affects everybody especially when you have wife kids um and so just the fact that we got to spend that time together I thought it was it paid off in the long run and I think it'll make for like a better conversation today for sure for sure so back to your emotions back to your you know it's funny that it's I I never do well when I have a lot of time to think like that's like where I'm not great um in some areas and so the fact that got the call boom training camp in four days it's almost like you go into like survival mode like you just you don't have time to think about anything except like what's the most important thing right now you know like this training camp you know we had our coaches Retreat and stuff and like I drew up the practice plans like a month ago and then I deleted the document and it's like we redid it yesterday whereas last year it was just like all right we're just these are the most important things on day one like we we're just doing that um these are the objectives and so it's almost like you just kind of went into like you don't have time for anything other than figuring out what's most important and going from there so it actually kind of helped me a little bit in year one of like if I went into a situation in year one and I had to think a lot I think it would been a little bit like ah do we do this do we do that um so it wasn't too bad um I think it was more about how was it going to affect my wife my family cuz I get home I get home it's like 10:00 uh I had to meet with Brad and um you know she's upstairs like making the bed and I walk in I just have a look on my face and I'm like you know we're the interm coach of the Celtics and she was like shut the f up and I was like no we are really and like she didn't even know what to say um and uh usually when something like that happens and it kind of throws into your family like it can be negative but I think that situation from that moment on the entire year it brought our marriage closer and our family closer and I thought it that was like the coolest part is she from New England too no she's from West Virginia okay all right got it got it so you're you're you're you're saying because of the timing it actually was a benefit so your head wasn't spinning at all it wasn't spinning at all like I knew I knew I was going to struggle like I wasn't sitting there saying like oh I'm ready I got this all figured out like I was like okay like I know I'm going to screw up here I know like I I'm not going to be perfect I know we're going to practice isn't going to go great some days but I think what made it a little bit more comfortable was I had been here for 3 years I had a I had I had built relationships with the players with the organization I had worked for Brad as an assistant and so I was able to use a lot of the data that I already had to kind of just go forward um so I wasn't definitely like I got this all figured out I was like okay like this is going to be really hard um but I tried not to think too far ahead like I was just like I'm only going to worry about now to training camp ends and then when training camp ends we'll just figure out like the first 20 games and then we'll see what happens like I didn't know we were gonna how do even know how many what we won like what was our record I have no idea 5 no I'm saying that that like 20 game Mark we were like we were on that run had no idea that was going to happen like so it's almost I think you were 18 and two weren't you some something like that but like it's when you have no expectations it actually makes things a little bit easier sometimes as opposed to having expectations and then your expectations not getting met so I just sat in on your post practice uh Jiu-Jitsu session with your Jiu-Jitsu coach and he talked about managing expectations and I I want to touch on that in a little bit okay but I do I do want to get to one other thing during this sort of period of time which is basically uh if we're being honest you can you can Define crisis however you want but in some ways uh there was a there was a crisis your team's coming off uh an NBA Finals uh appearance uh the head coach is is been suspended um this Young Guy's taken over and I think part of being a head coach uh is is Crisis management and so how did you sort of approach the crisis management part with the players with your team I think the first part was like just be as vulnerable as you can right up front and I was just like I just tried to be as vulnerable as I can like listen I was behind the Ben Co behind the bench coach I'm an interm um I don't have any experience being a head coach but what I do know is I've built great relationships what what I think I've built relatively good relationships with each person in this room I know who you are as people I know who you are as players and I know what type of character you have and so I'm going to rely on that more than anything else and we're not going to be able to move forward if you got if the the team as a whole the locker room doesn't drive the engine for this and I'm going to do my part I'm going to do my best um to fill in the gaps of you know where I think I can help um but we don't have the transition without the those guys and so I thought I had to just like just be as vulnerable and open as I can I love that approach there's a there's a humility that's required in doing that you know what I mean yeah I mean you know they're really good at what they do like they play the game at a really really high level yeah and at that time I wasn't really good at being a head coach in the NBA cuz I had never done it so like why would I go in with the expectation of like we're going to do it this way and we didn't necessarily you know we we work together but I I 95% came from the car ctor uh of our locker room like the guys that have been here a long time the new guys that join like that that's kind of what I leaned on so we're going to get a little bit into your background in a second but you had been a head coach before yeah at Fairmont State at D2 School in West Virginia um but you go from being the fourth assistant to the head coach in the NBA of arguably one of the two most visible well-known franchises uh you know potentially in the world in terms of basketball but certainly in this in this country and there had to have been some surprises like there there's the obvious stuff like I got to figure out the X's and O's I got to figure out the defensive offensive strategies and philosophies and all that um what what surprised you the most about being a head coach what were like the hardest adjustments you had to make B by far the hardest adjustment was like people gave a [ __ ] who you were like I just couldn't understand why that was something and you know the head coach of the Celtics but that's what people would say all time like so I get that now like I understand that it does come with a a different type of platform and and you know so like the fact that we're here today is like a huge step for me so like the hardest adjustment was I just became I'm an emotionally guarded person I'm I'm an introvert um you know it's funny I was saying I was telling this yesterday to our organization is you know I I I wasn't like standoffish I was walk by people I would say hi like I built good relationships with people but I got to a point where like I would come in through the service elevator so that I could come in on 5 R and just go straight to the film room and I go straight to the film room to the court back into the film room and then take the service elevator back this is when you were an assistant yes like and like I was just doing my job staying out of the way and like I think Al Horford said this to me one day he was like yeah when you an assistant like I I wouldn't even look if we were on the court I I would never I wouldn't talk would never talk I would only talk to the people I was assigned to working with I didn't like do anything except what I was supposed to do and you know then I go from like just hanging around the facility to now like every I'm running the facility and it's like and I wasn't quite ready to take ownership in that department yet because it was like I was going to have to let myself go emotionally I was going to have to put myself there a difference between being vulnerable with a locker room full of guys that you're working with and then being vulnerable with an entire organization and being vulnerable with the world and I wasn't ready for that part yet and that was hard yeah so so what what's I mean I I would it's funny cuz I I'm I host a podcast and I go on television and you know I certainly out there and I opinionated often I'm naturally very introverted and it took years and years of like personal growth and evolution and honestly I think the biggest growth that I had in terms of that was when I played for the Clippers and high pressure more responsibility big Market um you know a visible team and it was like a it was in some ways a matter of survival a m you know it was it was like I I have to evolve as a human um but it's not it was not an easy process yeah what's what's been in terms of this Evolution because you're sitting here now agreeing to do a podcast with me thank you but what's sort of been the battle Yeah in in terms of evolving into someone who can lead a facility lead a locker room talk to the media um speak on on the good stuff and the bad stuff so I think the first battle is like one thing I'm conscious of is you never want to become like a storyline or or be attention and so like when we first when you first asked me to do the podcast I was like I'm just not ready yet like you start how every action I do now is going to be perceived in some type of way right so you try to be as thoughtful as you can of like does is this action drawing attention to me personally or is it drawing attention to the Celtics or is it drawing attention to my family like you know so you you have to ponder each decision make sure that it's drawing attention to the right things um the other thing that's a like a balance is like I never want to become something other than like just a guy that coaches the Celtics like it's the NBA it's about the players it's about the history it's about the tradition of this organization I never want to be I don't even want to think about being like that and so and don't get me wrong it will never happen so um but I still like think about that stuff like you know I don't want to I don't want to draw attention to myself um and so I think that's the first part right is like how can you maintain a level no what like I when people say like they're humble like I battle with pride I battle with insecurities I battle with stuff but I like to try to understand what humility is and I never want to like lose sight of the idea of humility I'm fascinated by this but I hate when people say like oh I'm I'm humble it's like I'm not I'm not humble in every area of my life like I'm fascinated by this for a second so so for the for the listener the viewer we are going to get into a ton of basketball stuff um Joe and I we we were talking beforehand and it was a halfway therapy session and I I'm curious about that because we were talking about insecurities earlier yeah the insecurities what did you learn about your own insecurities in your one of being a head coach oh you have that they you without even you can't control if they're going to come up and what I learned is like it's the same thing with fear like one of my friends um who I talk to a lot I texted him one day and it's like is it like why do I feel a level of fear heading into this game and he was like it's not the fear that's the issue it's the fear to towards the fear it's like panicking that you are you should have a little bit of fear and that's what I was telling you about that book War by Sebastian Junger it's like like everyone who does something has a level of fear it's like it's what you do with it it's how you leverage that and so like the that those are going to come up they just naturally are they do for me they do for players they do for they do for everybody and it's more about like leveraging those uh and how you use those as strengths and that was like some one of the things that you know I learned and for me what give me an example of that so so how would you like as a head coach yeah going into a game playoff game whatever could be a regular season game I I would get fearful or not scared but I I that fear that you're talking performance anxiety that we talk performance anxiety what we're talking about right I get that before regular season games just like I would before the playoffs so how how did you go about L how do you go about leveraging that performance anxiety so I struggled more with the postgame and what I learned is like because I like if I let somebody down that like that bothers me and so like if I make a decision by my standards that I feel like I let one of my players down or I let the team down I can't sleep at night and so like I had to get past the fact that like every decision you make as a coach is not going to be perfect like you can study the film all you want you can memorize scouting reports you can build your substitution pattern you can have your play call frequency by quarter you can have all this crap figured out and at the end of the day I'm a human and I'm going to do something I'm going to like go against the preparation at some point or I'm going to trust the preparation it doesn't work and it's like I had to be able to live with the philosophy that like every decision I make is just not going to go well all the time and that was like an adjustment period because in like everyday life you make a decision and like there's really no consequence to it like you know and so but in in maybe your wife gets mad at you and you can you can ignore that like you can you can just ignore the text for two hours sorry Chelsea um but like during the game you make one decision then you're sitting there saying like damn like yeah everyone's talking about this decision in the fourth quarter but I screwed up a decision in the third quarter that let them go on a 80 run and that's what cost us at the end of the game so it was learning how to live with that I'm not perfect and I'm not going to make the best decision every time yeah very fortunate to uh listen in on your your post Jiu-Jitsu U debrief with your coach and something he said and I won't spill all the notes I took on that meeting but I he talked about you're never going to achieve Perfection so we were talking about man managing expectations right you're never going to achieve Perfection the goal is just to work towards it yeah not to achieve it the goal is to work towards Perfection but you're never going to get Perfection you're never going to make like did you feel like you had a perfect game as a player I never had a perfect game Doc used to always talk about basketball is a game of imperfect yeah right yeah what's funny is like the games that we won I felt like I did more dumb [ __ ] than than the games that we lost it was like I remember there was like five games that we lost where I was like personally I was like you know what like we didn't win but like I felt like I coached a decent game tonight and then there was like five games that we won where I was like thank God our players played well cuz I did some dumb stuff during the game and no one's going to know about it cuz we ended up pulling the game out you know so like it's funny how like you look at it from different sides of it so yeah it's definitely that like you just make so many decisions and you just have to surrender to the fact that like there's a percentage of them that aren't going to go well yeah it's really actually fascinating um a little background uh for the listeners uh you played at West Virginia for Bob Huggins you went right into coaching you were an assistant coach for two D D2 schools in West Virginia Glenville State Fairmont State then you went to the g-league for a year with a ma red Clause returned back to Fairmont State as the head coach uh and then mov to Boston as assistant coach of course you're now the head coach but um I don't know the answer to this and and and this is not just for the liser but what what were you doing at the D2 level allowed you to first get a g-league job and then to get an NBA job uh I tell you caught caught a mean break and so uh we went to the final four in 2010 Brad was coaching the team Ronald NORAD was the point guard on that team Ron uh was working for the Celtics he leaves the Celtics and I think he goes to Northern Kentucky and at that time Northern Kentucky was either division 2 or they had just turned division one and they couldn't qualify for the div the tournament yet I think and I was at Fairmont State and we like right in The Sweet Spot of like being able to get in the door with uh low with like low D1 recruits and I'm sitting there in Indianapolis and I see Ron walking with an NKU share and I and I I said something the effect of like that's the dumbest decision I've ever seen in my life I like you left the Celtics to go to to college cuz I was like in college trying to get to the NBA and uh he kind of laughed and like we built a really good relationship out of that um so he ends up leaving one of the colleges that he was at and taking the head coach at Long Island Nets uh and he calls me and he's like I want you to come be my assistant and so I'm an assistant at Fairmont State and I'm like I don't even think twice I just leave probably should have um then like two weeks later he's like I can't hire you anymore so then I like I don't have so then I'm not at Fairmont anymore and I can't go to Long Island with Ron and credit to Ron like he I don't know like the channels that he called but you know he put me in touch with like Scott Morrison who's now in Utah and uh Scott ended up like intro you know introducing me to him interviewing and so that's how I got to Maine was like first seeing Ron recruiting uh building a relationship with him him hiring me then getting fired before I got hired and then you know being able to go to Maine with Scott Morrison so this was your Your Big Break was a relationship break it wasn't it wasn't because you were doing some crazy [ __ ] with your with your team I I doubt I was I mean I don't know like we were I was coaching in a gym with like 500 people we were like you know 14 and eight and um but you know I think it's about relationships like I think more times you can you can sum it up is but it really comes down to like who do you know who do you invest in and and vice versa like like you know Scott and Ron like invested in me like Ron took a chance on me Scott took a chance on me without um you know even knowing me because of Ron and then this organization took a chance on me because of that yeah you you you know this because we've talked a bunch you know there's a there's a somewhere in in my heart and my brain there's this uh deep burning desire to to coach someday and uh I think a lot about you know I write stuff down um I've got like plays and stuff but I think a lot about coaching philosophy how I want to talk to my team um how I would view endgame situations whatever like all the stuff that goes into coaching and in some of that how I view how I would coach right is is based on coaches I played for and my own playing experience if that makes sense what what is there anything about your playing experience is there anything about Coach Huggins that sort of influenced your coaching philosophy so I think the the the thing hugs really does well is build relationships and you know the one thing that I saw from him was and and you see a lot with him on the sidelines like he'll yell scream you know get in your face but he never brings it past the sidelines and so he has this he has the emotional intelligence to like coach the crap out of you uh push you to the absolute limit and the second the horn goes off and you're you're off the lines he's a father figure and when I watched him have that balance I was like that can be done anywhere because foundationally it's it's not about coaching it's about like love it's about building relationships and I really felt that like one of the reasons one of the things that Drew me to want a coach in the NBA was like can I take that formula and work to build those types of relationships with the with NBA players and I think that's the biggest thing I took from um 2005 St Louis final four in St Louis I've got to go because you know I'm up for a couple Awards or whatever my team didn't make it um and so one of the nights I went out and I I go to this bar with a couple other guys that are there for awards guys that weren't playing in the final four or whatever and huggy's there and you know I talked to him in the bar or whatever and I can't I think there was like a shuttle that was going back to the hotel or something and so the bar closes at like 2:00 in the morning and the shuttle's not there so we're all kind of stranded this is pre- Uber of course and you know none of us knew how to call a taxi I guess and so I I sat there on the sidewalk with with Huggy for like 30 or 40 minutes we both put a little skull in and we just like chopped it up and ever since then I'm like I'm a bob Huggins fan like he has that ability to just really really connect I didn't play for him yeah and and we just like had this sort of instant connection yeah like I think it's I think it's like from a place of empathy like I think when you you know like none of us are perfect right and like like that's one of my goals is to like just live a life of where like this is who I am like I'm not perfect I'm going to make mistakes and Huggy has for sure made mistakes but like when you make mistakes you're able to use those for like positivity later in life and apply those to relationships that you're in and so you know because you have a guy like hugs who's been through a lot he can relate to different people because the people that he's recruiting and coaching guess what they also made mistakes mes and so I think that's like a huge thing is like if we can get through the like the grace the forgiveness I don't condone like people like hurting other people or anything but like if we can get past the initial emotion of like someone hurting someone's feelings or something is a positivity that can come from there and hugs uses all the experiences he's been through to help the people that he's had and like I can give you a list of players on our roster and rosters before like they come from some really difficult situations and if hugs wasn't who he was he would not have been able to help them the way that he did yeah empathy is a powerful thing for sure um the the idea of openly admitting that you're going to make mistakes I I I really I I love that um Tobias Harris and I used to always he was a very black and white person and you know if something went wrong like or if somebody was doing something wrong like he just couldn't get past it you know what I mean and he and he in some ways we we were talking about perfection like he in some way and we I discussed this with him on the Pod so I'm not saying anything that isn't already out there but you know he in some ways like if it wasn't perfect it was like really bothering him and I and I used to live that way as well and and I found that the gray is is is like very peaceful it's very Zen and it's it's this idea of embracing the gray as a player you're going to make mistakes and I think sometimes as a player if you make the same mistakes continu not continuously but time and again uh there's a narrative that develops around you uh and I think it's the same thing for coaches right uh this coach is not great in this situation this coach is not great in that situation are you ever worried about narratives around you and like mistakes you make building to something that like you get now labeled as Joe Missoula the guy who can't do this yeah the only the only label I care about is what my players say in my family and so I don't I don't care about what the labels are what I don't want is a the players to believe them and B to to coach a certain way to where the players don't believe in what My Philosophy is and so you know you take an example of something that may happen in a game and I'm sure will bring it up or it's like you know I'm labeled as the coach that doesn't call a timeout yeah we're going to talk about this I figured you were so I might well I beat you to it right and and I'll tell you what like I I I stand by my philosophy what I where I have to get better at is the organization of my philosophy and that's why I didn't have time as a coach and so I still believe in certain situations a Time out is not the best decision where I wasn't good at as a coach was organizing my team properly to take advantage of that situation I didn't teach the philosophy well enough I had the philosophy but I didn't teach it well and so the narrative doesn't bother me what bothers me is I didn't do a good job of putting our players in the best possible position to succeed and that's a goal of mine heading into the season is like okay I've had one year I built some philosophies but now I got to double down on my teaching and I got to double down the organization and I got to make sure that I stand by the philosophy that we agree on as a team but then also that I do a great job of organizing our guys to put them in the best possible position yeah um I think it was the second game I called I had a Friday Sunday game in March I think it was the Knicks game where you didn't call a timeout yeah and I don't think you guys got a shot off because uh Tatum ended up catching the ball on the right wing with like two seconds to go and and then I'm obviously you know game four in Philly not calling timeout and just to review a little bit they score um we can talk about the help off the strong side corner all we want but they they Harden hits the three and there's time and I think there's a lot of coaches who don't call a timeout in that play because then they don't want to get the defensive unit for the other team right it could have been McDaniels it could have been DeAnthony Melton right they're all of a sudden they're in the game and you got Maxi in the game right so you don't call a timeout um there's also what you said after the game your quotes after the game you were talking about you know I trust my players I trust my players in that situation which again I 100% agree with um but I also think not for you necessarily but I also think for a lot of coaches um who sit there for four or five minutes throughout the course of a game live action no no dead balls right there's no control and I think for a lot of coaches they they like that control at the end of the game you know there's coaches that just want to call a timeout and I want to draw something up I want to be set I want to be organized yeah and so I think there's this like really tough balance to find between all of that yeah and when you talk about teaching that i i what does that mean specifically I mean I just did like I the philosophy's Right like there's I think there was 10 11 seconds 12 seconds or something like that 14 14 to start 14 to start if you were to tell me you can guarantee the ball in one of your best players hands with 14 seconds on the clock to go make a play you would take that every day of the week where I failed as a coach is we didn't have a 14c play we didn't have a 8sec play to go fast enough yeah so you're talking about in a practice throughout the season yes so like I have to get better at practicing that of organizing that of giving a you know an example of like hey guys there's 14 on the clock this is what we're going to this is when we have to shoot it by this is what happens if it goes in this is what happens if it doesn't and so like I said I had the philosophy but I didn't properly teach the steps towards executing it and I think that's where you have to grow uh that's where I have to grow as a coach but also there are times where you do have to call it um the one that sticks out to me is at home versus the Warriors where we're down three and there's no timeout and it's like bedum and smart kicks at the JB and it goes in and after the game c Steve cerr is like we really thought they were going to call it time right so there's like there's always the other side of that but we were more organized um and so it's just about it's just about believing in something but but then teaching it organizing it and working at it and we we just have to get better I have to get better at that yeah um that same weekend in March by the way you guys lose to Brooklyn uh after having a big lead and in the pregame and i' I think I've used this on the podcast before in the pregame interview with you when we asked you about Friday night you said we just got outm and I was like yes I love this I love this when did you Embrace I want to talk about the three point sh but just analytics in general yeah and and not just using your gut and and your eyes as like the guide for everything when when did that start so this this is a this is a loaded question right that was the that game was when I felt like I let my team down emotionally because we didn't have the Brooklyn game yeah we didn't have we I two things are true two things can be true at the same time I don't know if you believe that but I I love to believe that of course so we did get out math and I let our team down emotionally because we didn't have the proper tools to handle momentum swings so from that game forward we started putting together momentum edits and we started studying momentum within NBA games and so maybe every other day we would have 10 to 12 clips of different pockets of the game no matter what coder it was where it's like this is why this was a close game in the fourth quarter you're up 10 with 3 minutes to go at the end of the third and you give up a 5 run now like being down five and start the fourth is way different than being down 10 to start the fourth and closing quarters ending quarters uh all that stuff came from that game and so I can easily say this now I'm kind of I'm I I learned from that one right so we really made a conscious effort I was like that's the game where I was like I really screwed my team but we did get out math and so I'm sitting in there and it came from so when I was a D2 assistant at Glenville my first year I had a counter and I I was counting possessions and a coach in the other league was like what are you doing and like I was just sitting there with like a counter possession go by get it and like I would do all the math from Dean Oliver's book at halftime and I would have it I would do it after the game and I would log The Possession and then I would do it every five games and so I was just literally counting possessions so that's that's kind of like where it started it's at the D2 level where you can do anything you want like you can do anything you want in division 2 like there's 100 to 500 people at the game never on the bottom ticker if you wanted to you know play five on four play five on four you would do it and nobody would care like so it was like it was that's where I like became creative and Innovative um and so that's kind of where it started who did someone prod you to count the possessions or you were just like you had read Dean Oliver's book and you were like oh let me let me just employ some math here coing philosopy read Dean ol's book and then there was a team in our league called West Liberty that dominated uh and the coach is now at Nova Southeastern and he dominates there and everyone in the league was trying to figure out how to keep up with these guys they would full C press the entire game they would only shoot layups and threes they would only Force turnovers they would crash Five Guys so like he was ahead of the game on doing what we're doing in the NBA now and I was like the only way to beat these guys is to like keep like figure out a way to keep up with them and so that's kind of where it started was like what are the mathematical advantages that these guys are getting by crashing Five Guys by pressing the entire game by forcing turnovers by shooting threes and free throws and layups like what mathematical advantages are they getting so it went down like this deep dive of like so I was in the conference for five years and that's kind of where it evolved for me I assume now in the NBA that within this organization there there's no push back to this philosophy I mean last year I I don't have the numbers right in front of me but I know the entire season it was you and the Warriors one and two for most three-point attempts three-point makes I don't know where you guys ended up on percentage but I think third I don't know I it was high but like I know it was one and two with you and the Warriors um and we we had Chris Finch on like a month ago and we we were talking about this because there there's um there's fans I think there's players too that kind of push back on this you know this notion of like threes and layups um but then also you having sort of Jaylen Brown and Jason Tatum and and giving them creative freedom to take tough shots and a lot of times those are M um so how do you how do you sort of communicate the philosophy of this is how we want to play and not only that just how do you hold people accountable if there is a shot or a possession that doesn't go the way that you want so first it starts with them like we have one of the smartest locker rooms uh a very aware locker room to how the game is being played how the game is evolved like top to bottom everybody just likes basketball and thinks basketball and I you know we've never really tal like we never talked about it I think we have a group mindset of like we're just going to do what makes sense and so and I would have individual conversations with each guy about like Hey how do you feel about this right like how do you feel about taking this type of shot in this situation and they would give their and say okay well you know here's how I feel about it like this is how maybe taking this shot like to me there's certain players in the league that even if they miss the other coach gets nervous so I was like if you pass this shot up you're you're letting the other coaching staff off the hook because they're they're just waiting to adjust like they're waiting to adjust and I said sometimes you have to take certain shots so that the other team starts thinking damn he just missed two in a row he's G like that's Jason Tan or Jaylen brownley he's knocking the next one down we gota be ready right and so I think that's a part of shot selection um but I'm grateful to the guys because they're smart and we just kind of have simple conversations about do what makes sense and heading in the last season you know we played double big two years ago I think heading in the last season Rob might have been out at the beginning of the year and so we chose to put Al at the five and X5 was on Al and so what do Bigs like to do help so if bigs help you have three two-on ones all over the floor and if you have two on- ones and you're playing small you either have a wide open shot or the guy next to you has a wide open shot so it didn't become like this where only like I felt like last year that was the best possible formula to put ourselves in position to win right I think so I think this is the is like the key point about uh to me at least about analytics and coaching is like uh or even philosophy in general it's like yeah I want to I want to play a certain way I want these type of shots but then to some degree you have to adjust to your personal it's funny you bring up Al starting the season at the five because in the conversation with Chris Finch we were talking about cat being moved to the five from the or being moved to the four from the five where he spent his entire career to that point playing in space yeah because the fives are always the help guy fives are in drop yeah now he's attacking a close out with a seven-footer and he's able to drive by and score or or get an open three and those opportunities they happen but not as frequently right because four man's going to switch whatever so I I I I do think there's a lot of it is figuring out like all right this is my team this is the best group I can put out there last year to start the season it was out of the five you guys played a certain way it ended up and it just took off like it wasn't like I came in the season like saying guys we're only shooting threes you come to the season got there's no that quota yeah I've had some players tell me like I got a quota right there's not a quota like you're not saying we need 43s no but I am paying attention to the sharp margin and so we'll go to come full circle to the Net game is like we were getting all layups and they were bricking threes and I'm sitting there going like this is not going to go well like because like if you get easy baskets what does the brain tend to say oh we're just GNA get these all night and I know jock V and I listen to a lot of his press conferences like he will double down on the math and double down on what makes sense and so they started the game two for 20 from three and we started the game like 10 for 14 from Two and I'm like we're screwed because they're not going to stop shooting now if they stop shooting then we're in good shape but they're going to keep launching and we're going to keep thinking that we're just going to get layups all night they're going to make their adjustment defensively when they make their adjustment defensively how can we keep pushing the pace to score and at that time like we didn't have the curveball of like forcing turnovers so like it was like half court execution transition execution so that was like sweet spot of like they're two for 20 from three we're 10 for 14 from two how's this going to go right and so they just kind of did it but what's funny is like this year that might not make sense for our team like with the addition of porzingis we have the chance to play small we have the chance to play double big X5 might not be an now you know we we don't know but because we the matchups like the matchups are going to be completely different this year than they were last year and so again like you you kind of start with the framework of like what makes the most sense because there's going to be natural mismatches on the court now when porzingis is out there if X5 isn't on him and so now it's about recognizing what type of shots are we going to get with the mismatches we create with our players that we have now and I think you just go from there makes sense what for for Jason who has been First Team all NBA the last two years one more thing on that so three years ago when Quinn was in Utah we lost to the Jazz at home like by 30 maybe can't remember this was like my either my first year or the second year with no crowd and I looked at the box score and they were launching and like we were like executing and I looked back and I was like not only did we get our ass kick tonight we got mathematically destroyed because they just dominated the shot margin and they dominated the three-point margin and so you have to pay attention to that yeah I I started to feel it more and more by like 2015 2016 like it just you would I would be in the middle of a game and this is when I was still playing with the Clippers and like you know we'd have four straight possessions uh Blake and CP would shoot mid-range shots and and let's say we made two yeah right and then the other team's coming down they have four straight possessions shooting threes and they let's say they make two right it's like an eight-point game turns to a 10-point game a 10-point game turn to a 14-point game and you're just like I didn't use the phrase we're getting out math but I was like yeah we got no chance yeah yeah it's like it's just a it's it's it's an equation it's funny too cuz the Rockets like that that that was one of the games I specifically remember that happening we were playing in LA and then you see like game seven against the warriors uh when when Chris was out uh I think that was 18 and they miss like 27 threes in a row it's like that's that's to me that's the anomaly yeah right yeah has that happened since no that's what I'm saying like team shooting 60% from three like or 50% from three on 45 like that that that to me happens maybe not on a nightly basis but it certainly happens two or three times a week yeah like the anomaly is like if you're going to buy into this strategy the anomaly is like I'm willing to I'm willing to buy go fully fully in on this strategy knowing that like once every thousand games you're going to miss 25 in a row Jazz I I can remember watching games with the Jazz where it's like they missed eight in a but like they're still kind of in the game and they're going to hit three in a row at some point and they're back in it yeah I mean so the challenge for me is it's a double-sided coin right like this is where my brain struggles this is where I struggle to communicate as a coach sometimes the effort like EXE the effort physicality toughness piece that gets you in the door like I I like I did a poor job of like um reemphasizing that sometimes throughout the year last year as the as the head coach and I think like what you emphasize as a CO like that was another adjustment was was like as a head coach it's like you are what you emphasize you know and so like I don't I feel like me personally like if it's effort physicality toughness that that's an admission ticket that gets you in the building like we shouldn't have to talk about that if you if you really want to win right like maybe a couple times you have to remind the guys and so I struggle with going back to that reminding that but it's like a double-sided coin of like there's the effort the physicality and the toughness which gets you in the door and then there's the execution approach about how are we going to manipulate this game and do both and so like it kind of goes back to like Duality like you have to do both you got to freaking play hard but then you also got to do what makes sense by the way I I'm I'm taking notes on some stuff to you say to follow up on and I'm also taking notes on stuff you say that I'm gonna then put in my binder later on and it might not work I don't know no no no but I love that your team is what you emphasize I love that you know that yeah yeah but listen that's a good but that's a good like Mantra I like that that's the that's the other interesting part about like when you're an assistant you spend seven years getting ready to be a head coach you build all these binders you have all these notes you go to all these coaching clinics you're like oh I'm ready I'm ready you don't know what I'm not going to coaching clinics bro you don't know what situation you're going to you don't know what situation you're going to fall into you don't know what 10 nuggets you're going to take from your 10 years of preparing and what you're going to do and so like I must have read you you emphasized 15 times from when I first started coaching to like the day before I became the coach and then like [ __ ] happens you just forget about that one little detail that you are or you emphasize and like and to me like what I learned about myself was like I'm stubborn to be like we're going to talk about defense on day one and then we're not going to talk about it again because it's just so obvious that you have to play it like if you really want to win you have to do it like you don't have a choice now we're going to drill it every day like if I have to come in every day and be like guys defense is the most important thing then like to me to me and I'm not saying I'm right I'm saying I'm a little wacky but to me it's like brush your teeth every day just common sense right like just you just do it maybe it's because I sucked at offense and I only played defense I think that's what it is I sucked at offense so I couldn't pay attention to it so I only had to play defense it was my only chance of like survival I feel like there was a decent amount of chatter about your team's defense dropping off last year yeah you still ended up with the number two defense in the regular season what were the areas where you know you look I'm I'm sure you watched a ton of film on last year as you prepare for this season but like what were the areas you're like all right this these are the things we didn't do well so again starts with me like I I so when I when I you talk about collecting data when I got the job I the the the final line of data that I came from this has been a top five defense since I've been here we know how to do that our offense has fluctuated throughout the season throughout fourth quarters it's fluctuated up and down since I've been here so can we keep this the stable like can we be top five in defense like we have been even before I got here and then can we like weaponize the offense and then can we get to a situation where like super well balanced so that was kind of like my thought and so like it failed at times because of my lack of emphasis because of my stubbornness to just be like why do I have to talk about that we should just do it um and so you know I learned that about myself but then I think where we weren't good was we put so two things we didn't force turnovers and we didn't have a curveball and that's what I learned about coaching um in the playoffs I learned two things in the playoffs and really at like the end of game playoff things is analytics do go out the window in the playoffs because the sample size is much smaller and so you have to find a better balance of like this is what makes sense but you also have to do this and so that's kind of like what that's like the number one thing I took from last year um was that balance right like I think they go out the window at some point um and then the second thing is like you have to to have a curveball and for for two years two three years we our curveball we didn't have one it was just like switch guard the ball and individual defense and that was better two years ago than last year um but you have you have to be able to go to something different during the game that changes the momentum and it's really really hard to just switch switch switch all the time it puts a ton of pressure on your team and so I would say we got to do a better job of forcing turn and we have to we we got to emphasize got to force turnovers we have to have a curveball interesting um for I was going to ask you before you you gave the uh Jazz I know you love that's the only thing I could do so that's why I like Joe I I sucked at everything 2010 final four Duke Duke won I remember so I gotta tell you this funny Duke story so 2006 we go to the Sweet 16 we beat Duke in DC and me being me like honory you know idiot kid at times like we're never going to play Duke again like I don't even belong here like we have a chance to go to Sweet 16 like grow up or out my teammate comes up to me he's like I'll give you $100 if you slap the floor in front of Duke's bench at any point in time during the game and I was like done I'm doing that and so at some point during that game like I think we go on a run I'm right in front of Duke's bench slap the floor Greg Paul drives right by me for a layup I would actually like to know if like there's probably some wacko Duke and I mean that in an endearing way by the way like just a true crazy who uh would be willing to go back to like the 1980s and find every televised Duke game record how many like every possession with a floor slap and then what the points per possession on defense because it always felt like every time we slapped the floor somebody would score I definitely felt that yeah I definitely felt that um uh for for Jason and Jaylen um you know again guys J Jason's last two years First Team all NBA Jaylen was uh all NBA last year as well um what's the next step for them in the evolution of their careers yeah I think one like just continue to grow as as leaders and as people and as players which like they don't get the credit they deserve for who they are as people I really believe that like there's there's like three reasons why I came in the NBA number one was I feel like there's the most misunderstood company in the world and everybody just thinks because you make a ton of money and you play a really cool sport that like you're just supposed to be a certain type of way and those two guys amongst our whole team but like those two are as High character as you can possibly get and it starts there like that's why I really believe every single year we have a chance to win because of the character of our best players um and they're and then their work ethic like they're always opening to grow um and I think the biggest area of growth for them you know with our roster now is like how do they how do they express who they are as Leaders um and it's going to look different for each of them like I you know you saw Tatum say the other day like I'm not Kevin Garnett he's not but he's just as good of a leader in a different way and so we have to create an environment to where he feels the freedom to lead in that way and Jaylen took on ownership and Leadership with his defense in the Philly series and so like taking that as the leadership step of like okay like I know I can do this I'm going to be this now and they both have publicly said it like this is what they want to do so like they're they they grow every day um makes it really special to to work here I said this during the playoffs last year um and I and I didn't mean this in like a negative way towards either of them but I I talked about there there's an inherent redundancy um because they're both big wings who can shoot and handle there's not a lot I mean you could I guess run pick and rolls with them but there's not a lot you can do as like a tandem right like a like a two-man game right so like I I I think I use the example of LeBron and AD or Stephan Draymond or yic and Murray right and and so like are are there creative ways like where the two of them could like be in action together outside of the vet which is you know the horns yeah generally speak yeah I guess you you call it horns I called it V or V2 whatever but the horn set right so generally speaking I think most of the time you run that two of the two of them are one of the three people involved in that yeah two of the three so I think one I think there are creative ways which I think we to last year which I like that's why we saw a really great version of Jaylen was his growth as a pick and roll ball handler like his growth as a screener last year I think Tatum's like he grows as a screener every day um he's getting comfortable uh handling and pick and roll so like I think there are creative ways but I also think you have to have a curveball you have to have something else to go to and I think that's what the addition of porzingis will give us is like our shot selection is going to look different at times this year and if you look at our late game execution it's not that we're not trying not to execute it's that we don't have we didn't have a way to change the momentum of the game um because and like you have to be able to post you have to get to the free throw line you have to make really hard shots and so I think with the addition of porzingis he will take the pressure off of those two guys and allow the space and freedom for them to do what they do also give us a curveball of posting nail ISO and so it just changes what we're going to be able to do um but I think it frees them uh and I think he's going to make a big difference for us yeah um we're recording this two days after uh Dam Damen Lillard got traded to Milwaukee um you're you're sort of as a coach of a team in the Eastern Conference not not like talking about D but you're just like reaction to that like where a team who has you know won a championship two years ago like all of a sudden gets a Daman Lillard you know it's it's like what is what is that sort of feeling what is that chatter like in with with with the coaches I'll give you exactly what what it is he's a great player they're a great team we don't have time like we don't have time to worry about that and here's why I say that as a young coach like taking over the way I did I really I could say this like I really wanted the number one seed look how that turned out for the number one seed last year so be careful what you ask for is what I would say like I spent a lot of time like man we got to get the one seed like we got to get the one seed then we lost it and I was like ah [ __ ] like we lost it and then I was like okay well then it ended up like well the on he just went to the eight seed so like and so you end up thinking like you you just don't know like and I think like people don't say that enough like like what if we would have got the one seed and lost to the eight seed like I probably wouldn't even be sitting here right now so like thank you God for like protecting us from the one seed coach I had to tell you but you did lose to the e seed I meant as the as the one seed in the first round you know what I mean so like it's be careful what you ask for and you really don't know what you're so like to that really taught me something last year was like look there's so much at stake I just don't have I can't worry about what's going on around because then I'm losing sight of like what we actually have yeah I I I'm I'm I knew you were going to answer it that way by the way but I I I want to make because I every time I I can make this point I want to make this point because you see the you I don't know how much you're not on social media but you see on social media like this team's gon to be scary or like this it's scary you know James Harden scary hours and Brooklyn or whatever and you know I always tell people like the perspective as like a player or the perspective for for coaches is just like we we have to just control what we can control and if and if your best is better than our best you know it's all we can do right so the the the approach has just got to be like I gotta worry about my team I gotta worry about the locker room yeah I wasn't great at that at all the time I should like you can't control like we I we couldn't even control getting the one seed like we lost like two games and Milwaukee won 20 in a row so like there was nothing we could have done it's just if you go through like if you go through the season or these situations where it's like oh that trade makes them like better than us or like if we don't get the one seed we're not going to the finals it's like you don't know you have no idea what I do know is like we've had the best month of preseason since I've been here from top to bottom of Buy in from like our top players from buying of our second unit from buying of our young guys from our staff like when I I tried to come in this gym as much as I could over the last month and a half and it was just a different type of feeling and so like if I spend more time worrying about those things and not appreciating what we have one I'm doing the players of disservice and two like I'm not going to be as effective at what we do so like yeah they're going to be they're going to be a nightmare to play against but my job is to make us a nightmare to play against too and we'll see what happens when two nightmares play against each other right right kind of anecdotally to this um because you were you said the word curveball a couple times and you know I was talking about the two-man game and it's like Dam and Giannis joic Murray right there probably not like great answers to to how to defend that um when you're in a coaches meeting prepping a scout game plan for a regular season game or let's say you're playing the Nuggets or whatever versus a playoff game like how different are those meetings in terms of the back and forth and and just like the decision making on all right we're going to be in a drop you know it Warriors right Warriors finals you know you when you were assisted like we're going to be to drop this oh now we got to be up oh now we got to we got to switch like the back and forth on that I'm I'm just because I I never got to never got to be in coaches meetings and I'm always fascinated because all we get is all right here's the game plan you get like the final thing like there could have there could have been a fist fight in the coaches room and like we got to limp to the Brown's coaches meetings were like three hours so well three things one I love to debate and argue so like I'll sit there all day and screw with you to make sure we get get it right number two and I I would say one of the things I am one of the things I'd like to say I'm pretty good at is ignoring the emotion and being able to sit in something that I believe in and for like whether it's a playoff game or a regular season game like if a scout says we're doing this if it's not if it's not effort or anything else we're not making an adjustment because I know what the other side of that adjustment brings now there are times when you have to make the adjustment and that's where the curveball comes into but I'm willing to sit in an uncomfortable space a little bit longer because I know what the other side of the coin looks like because of our staff and the homework that we did so I would say that as like for a regular season game um for playoffs that's where I struggle with a balance of like what analytics versus what makes sense for this game you know this is what it this is what it says you should do over a long period of time against this team this is what this team is doing it happened in the Atlanta Series where it's like they weren't a great Point shooting team like statistically but when Quinn came he just completely changed the philosophy and they weren't going to stop shooting so it was like we're going to have to decide like the variance is going to take over at some point um so I think balancing the analytics to like what's happening in this three game series um is really really important and then like you said being able to have a curveball um I think I think that's kind of like what goes into it uh but you got to be able to live in that space for a little while and you got to be able to coach the emotion of your guys because they hear they see everything that's going on and sometimes most uncomfortable thing is to do what you should do right you have to be willing to say this like all right here's the game plan we're going to be in a drop yic and Murray and you can't after two plays Murray hits two pull-up jumpers be like [ __ ] why why are we in this [ __ ] drop right all right now we're switching It's like because my only thing with the adjustment is like listen we go through every adjustment plan you can once you adjust you're screwed cuz it like it could go well well screed no no no I know I know what you're saying exactly what you're saying but there's also the you should have the ability I think at times to like give different coverage to great players right you have to you can never give them the same the the balance is like how long do you live in that one space you know against different guys but like you said like there's also the long game like you know we'll take a look at like okay this is what we're going to do in the first three quarters but this is what you're going to do in the fourth quarter or like sometimes it's like you see the guy's sub pattern ending and it's like if if you're going to adjust now he's not going to be in the game for another minute so then you just adjusted not you know so like it's it's just a fine line and you're constantly assessing I think a lot of the adjusting also has to do with how you're what you're doing on offense like if you're playing if you're playing the game a certain type of way um I think that also plays into it you know so I'm probably an overthinker I think there's a layers that makes sense there's a layers of adjustment there but you have to have a package of different stuff to go to and I think if you look at us over the last few years like switching was Dynamite for us but if you were to look at our team over the last three years like what would you say our curveball was I I don't think you had one exactly and so yeah that that's what I learned yeah yeah it's interesting um we're going to wrap up here I I did want to ask uh just about Marcus um because you know we we talked about KP a few times and as an outside person right and someone who played against Marcus uh and competed I would use that term very heavily too oh yeah like competed against Marcus um it felt like the sort of that defensive identity um and in some ways like from the outside again the cultural identity and and uh and that sort of thing like he helped to really drive that and establish that for years and so like how how are you approaching replacing that uh with this group you don't replace it like I think that would be somewhat disrespectful to say like the guy's who's a defensive player of the year he's been the an anchor for our team for some time now you don't replace it you just reinvent you just new ways to be great like there's not one way to be great I always like other thing I learned is like out of the top five defenses it's like Miami gives up the most above the break in corner threes they're top in defense every year we give up the least we're top in defense every year so there's never one way to be great I think you have to build a mindset and then you have to build a system which what works for your roster and so there's no like coming in saying we got to replace this guy it's like no we got to reinvent to what our roster is but we have to also you know develop an identity and a mindset of what that's going to look like yeah um I want to touch on one last thing before we go and that's that's going back to the late game thing it was one of the notes I took when you were with your um Jiu-Jitsu coach and you guys were explaining to me the the procession of the kill right the procession of victory in in Jiu-Jitsu strategy and sort of getting closer and closer to the win is often times when you L when you lose because you hold on to it and you lose mobility and flexibility and I'm so fascinated by this in the NBA where a team can play a certain way for 45 minutes and then for three minutes they play a completely different way in a we'll call it a clutch game a five Sixpoint game whatever and I'm never surprised when they lose I'm never surprised and for a team like you who for a lot of the game is relying on a lot of spacing a lot of ball movement Pace Pace right to then slow down it just not just singling you out and your this by the way I said the same thing about the the 22 team like I I just it's always it's always fascinating to me that teams across the league do this yeah I mean I think you have to start with like I do think you have to have again a curveball and that's where I think with our roster now like you know late game also analytics go out the window so like we don't like the post but you got to get the ball close to the basket you got to try to get to the free throw line you have to you have to make tough shots not like you know what I mean like not come down and shoot like a fade away but you got to make a tough shot and so I think it is a little bit of a different mindset to like it's a free flowing game at certain point you know what what's the space of keeping it free flowing versus executing and so like I think we you know with our roster now I think we'll be able to give some different looks like to put some pressure you you have you have more options for the execution piece right yeah but we're talking about the mindset piece yeah and it's such a beautiful principle that like a really good friend of mine talked to me about that you know my coach came up with where it's like the closer you are to Winning is like that's right at The Sweet Spot of when you're about to lose because the energy changes you're hanging on for dear life and the other team is in survival mode and it's like who can make you know who can you know it's like and so I think you have to practice that I think you have to be aware of that um an eight-point game with five minutes to go is in the NBA with so many possessions and how fast the game is like you have to you can't be passive in those situations um and so I that really helped me that you know that principle today and you know it's something that we'll look to to look into more okay Joe uh last question the roback question reminder to our viewers you can use code Old on roback.com for 20% off your first purchase that's rhob bac.com code old um we didn't mention your dad who played uh and coached how did how did your dad inspire you as a player and as a coach I mean he mindset like that's the number one word um when I think of him that comes to mind was like mindset and he just brought it every single day uh he brought it to to the family he brought it to the community he brought it to the people that he coached and uh he taught me the the mindset approach where it's like if there's something going on it's because of the way you're thinking about it or you're not doing enough and like everything is about a fundamental principle to your mindset and you can't change until you change that and um what's funny is like and I think I've said this a few times I got this job as an assistant and he got diagnosed with cancer in the same week and so the duality of handling both of those things I did it took me until the playoffs to grieve it because it was one of the hardest things I had to go through without him like everything that I went through in life that was hard like marriage you know kids college mistakes I made he was there for and you know that was the first time where I was like damn like he would be here at every game and like this like this like we made it as a family like we're here like we grew up an hour away like this is the coolest moment and he's not here and like it like I grieved him a lot during the playoffs because of the emotion of what it means to what he did for me what he would do if he was here like I could hear his voice like after games like sh the [ __ ] up or like you're being soft or like figure it out out or like it's a mindset like it's it's that simple and so like that had unbelievable and that's like the number one goal I try to be for my kids is like if I give them anything it's faith and mindset it's funny I I I don't talk to my dad that frequently um I never have just not not like a call somebody on the phone type person um but I love him he's like my hero and I don't talk to Coach K who has had you know probably the second most influence on my life but the two of them I always I always say this like the two of them there's not a day that goes by where I don't think of something I learned from them yeah and apply it to my life yeah it's like that's the impact that the two of them have had on me oh like there's since he's since he's been gone like there'll be times where I'm just walking around I'm like God I really turned into this guy like I don't know if that's good or not yet but you're 100% right like whether it's a saying a thought like one of our action principles this year is figure it out and that's from him cuz he would never give an answer he would just be like just figure it out and I'm like you know what dad like this time I actually might need an answer like it's not going well for me um but yeah you're 100% right all right I love it I appreciate it uh Joe we're going to give you some Rob back here too all right I love it coach this has been awesome thank you thank you I had fun that was fun

Channel: JJ Redick

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Id: fShVcFTK6RM

Length: 73min 19sec (4399 seconds)

Published: Wed Oct 04 2023