Can Mary Sues Have Flaws?

question of the evening can a ray have flaws let's find out perhaps the most contentious issue an author of faces throughout the early adventures into fiction is the concept of flaws or more precisely adding flaws into their main characters in fact this topic is such a major issue that finally understanding the nature of character flaws and attaching meaningful negative traits to their own beloved darlings could be considered a rite of passage for aspiring creatives why because after spending hours to days or even longer perfecting one's super cool main character from the number of syllables in the name to the hair gel style they use for their unnaturally spiky hair because of course you made an anime character adding crushing or downright debilitating flaws can feel strange like intentionally taking a hammer to a ming vase and then calling it a masterpiece after all your character is cool charming witty pretty and powerful why should one maliciously mar one's already marvelous character with unsightly flaws the word flaw here referring to a dramatic flaw in one's personality or in this case the personality of the character one that causes significant blowback in relation to the narrative or otherwise prevents the character from achieving their goals for example lady macbeth's tireless ambition which pushed her husband to commit murder for the sake of power leading both to very tragic and unhappy lives because the unfortunate reality is for many creatives it can be difficult to comprehend that the perfect character is ultimately imperfect and this exact dilemma is what often leads many a starry-eyed writer down the primrose path or the vile marry sue and this is what likely led to the widespread misconception that mary's sues are characters completely devoid of flaws while this can be true it isn't necessarily true the more accurate assertion is that mary sues are normally devoid of any meaningful flaws now the next question might be what exactly is a meaningful flaw without tumbling too far down the lord lovecraftian nightmare that is the mary sue a summary description would be that a mary sue is a genre of character that stems from bad writing bad writing commonly produced by fledgling inexperienced or undisciplined writers a character to whom the laws of the universe bow break and bend all to obey said characters desires a constant universal exception to the rule within their own universe tv trope is a website dedicated to the exploration of writing tropes from movies to television to books and more though it should be noted that the site is mostly pieced together by observing noticeable patterns in media rather than any sort of scholarly or academic study something that may lend it more credibility since these observations are quite often made by fans and media enthusiasts rather than a gaggle of pompous academics enthusiastically snoring their own flatulence here the tropes are identified and given titles like the five-man band or anti-villain and this of course includes the mary sue so to quote tv tropes about the mary sue she is not bound to the rules of the universe whatever the setting may be nobody will ever comment on the possibility of what she does they'll just assume she's that talented they'll just assume she's just awesome the most readily accepted and accurate example of a mary's suit is the legendary lieutenant mary sue of paula smith's a trekkie's tale the story that named the beast although relatively short the piece helps to highlight this exact problem gee golly gosh gloriorsky thought mary sue as she stepped on the bridge of the enterprise here i am the youngest lieutenant in the fleet only 15 and a half years old kevin kirk came up to her oh lieutenant i love you madly will you come to bed with me captain i'm not that kind of girl you're right i respect you for it here take over the ship for a minute while i go get some coffee for us mr spock came onto the bridge what are you doing in the command seat lieutenant the captain told me to flawlessly logical i admire your mind captain kirk mr spock dr mccoy and mr scott beam down with lieutenant mary sue to rigel 37 they were attacked by green androids and thrown into prison in a moment of weakness the tail mary sue revealed to mr spock that she too was half vulcan recovering quickly she sprung the lock with her hairpin and they all got away back to the ship back on board dr mccoy and lieutenant mary sue found out that the men who had beamed down were seriously stricken by the jumping kohlrobees mary sue less so while the four officers languished in sickbay lieutenant mary sue ran the ship and ran it so well she received the nobel peace prize the vulcan order of gallantry and the trial famadorian order of good guyhood however the disease finally got to her and she fell fatally ill in the sickbay as she breathed her last she was surrounded by captain kirk mr spock dr mccoy and mr scott all weeping unashamedly at the loss of her beautiful youth and youthful beauty intelligence capability and all-around niceness even to this day her birthday is a national holiday of the enterprise so what can we take away from all this well first it should be noted that smith's work should be considered mere example rather than a definitive study of what a mary sue is or isn't so keeping that in mind we can take a look at three significant lines that show three significant traits often associated with mary sue characters and to do that i've decided to summon the tutorial demon to help explain thanks ld okay let's see according to my research this story takes place in the star trek universe the fleet being referred to as a reference to starfleet the official space force of the united federation of planets officers are asked to take on a variety of important tasks ranging from exploration to diplomacy to military engagements and therefore starfleet officers are supposedly an elite class comprised of the best candidates the federation has to offer under normal circumstances characters within the star trek universe must undergo difficult testing just to be considered for the entry exam to bring this around to the topic at hand a trekkie's tale is packed with exquisite examples of moments often connected to a mary sue's reality warping tendencies where the good lieutenant mary sue breaks the established rules of the star trek canon as mentioned paula smith mocks several traits but the top three could arguably go as follows the mary sue's prodigy status the mary sue's universal attractiveness and the mary sue's lack of meaningful flaws first let's address her prodigy status to quote here i am the youngest lieutenant in the fleet only 15 and a half years old now according to star trek canon this is completely stupid i mean so utterly improbable that it breaks into great star trek lore almost as badly as the walking extinction event beckett mariner to put this in perspective john the card was the top of his class and an accomplished officer before being chosen as captain to the uss enterprise aka the flagship of the federation where he would become an icon for federation excellence even the esteemed captain picard didn't qualify for starfleet until he was 18. therefore being not only a graduated officer but a lieutenant at 15 is canonically ridiculous and to cap this one off here's what tv tropes had to say on the matter she will always be superior to the canon characters regardless of what canon has established they can do or whether it makes any sense i mean they're genius characters einstein level prodigies and then there's lieutenant mary sue and next we have this little gem captain kirk came up to her oh lieutenant i love you madly will you come to bed with me universal attractiveness is a core element of a standard mary sue men love her and women definitely want to be her unfortunately paula smith's work only addresses the superficial elements of this nifty little trait making one's character a koi comely maiden catching the attention of strong handsome men might be a little self-indulgent but it isn't a universe-breaking anomaly if you recall the mary sue character bends reality to suit its needs so the mary sue version is less of a matter of charisma or physical attractiveness and more a matter of morality to put it simply characters who love or befriend the mary sue are either good guys or redeemable characters who hate the mary sue are evil or jealous to again quote tv tropes if they like her they sing her praises if not they will gripe about her and thus be portrayed as evil and jealous this little quirk is often paired with the mary sue's ability to warp personalities of canonical characters for example mr spock came onto the bridge what are you doing in the command seat lieutenant the captain told me to flawlessly logical i admire your mind suddenly spock the ever stoic vulcan is easily impressed and instantly begins singing her praises captain kirk changes from respected starfleet officer to a lust driven fiend barely able to contain his own hormones in other words even the most dastardly villain can be redeemed and the most noble character demonized for the sake of the mary sue as tv tropes puts it characters previously established personalities change in reaction to her proud arrogant gimps suddenly acknowledge her superiority in everything reckless youths would listen to all her advice responsible leaders will defer to her instead villains will obsess with her to the detriment of all else and next up flaws which should bring us right back around to uld as stated before it has become an all too common misconception amongst critic kind that mary sues are devoid of weaknesses or otherwise negative traits and unfortunately the lie of the flawless mary sue has been told so many times and for so long that in the minds of many the lie has become absolute truth in fact the issue has become so black and white that the mere presence of any flaw can be said to disqualify a character from being a mary sue at all but while some mary sue characters are without flaws flawlessness is not mandatory even paula smith's lieutenant mary sue is not completely without moments of weakness to quote in a moment of weakness lieutenant mary sue revealed to mr spock that she too was half-vulcan recovering quickly she sprung the lock with her hairpin and they all got away back to the ship at first glance this might appear to bolster the claim that mary sues are indeed flawless after all the telemary sue's so-called moment weakness had no negative effect on either character or story in the star trek episode the drum head we learned that starship crewman simon tarsus lied about his heritage on his starfleet admission form stating that his parental grandfather was vulcan an allied race to the federation instead of a romulan an enemy race to the federation we learn here that lying on one's admission form regardless of anything else he may or may not be guilty of is a serious offense to quote simon tarsus himself now it's done isn't it my career in starfleet is finished it doesn't matter i lied on my application and that mistake will be with me for the rest of my life considering spock was apparently ignorant of lieutenant mary sue's familial background we can infer that she too lied on her application to starfleet just like simon tarsus lied on his and since tarsus was certain that his career is over either via broken regulation or negative social stigma we can conclude that a similar fate certainly awaited lieutenant mary sue there should have been considerable consequences perhaps much like tarsus even career ending consequences but they never happen this is how the author translates flaws weaknesses or wrongdoings for their beloved mary sue these character flaws rarely prevent the characters from achieving their objectives and any mistakes they do make are quickly forgiven forgotten or actually help the merries to achieve their goals because let us not forget that lieutenant mary sue's so-called moment of weakness just unveiled his secret origin making her more mysterious and hypothetically more intriguing not to mention that this little aspect allows her to mirror spock's own half-vulcan heritage as tv tropes puts it she almost never does anything wrong in the rare instance that she does it's usually a a way to disclaim her being a mary sue by introducing a single imperfection that has no bearing on anything anyway and b designed to show her smarts by making her feel instant remorse and she'll be easily forgiven anyway sue i'm sorry i just shot marvin in the face marvin's friend it's okay i never liked him anyway but that little explanation focuses on america's alleged failings mistakes and so-called moments of weakness and failings aren't flaws when a character is written properly failings organically arise from flaws so what about a mary sue's flaws if a mary sue has flaws they usually take one of two forms informed flaws and fake flaws and form flaws or flaws told to us during the story but we never actually get to see these are usually stapled on by the author in a laughable attempt to disguise their mary sue as a normal well-rounded character the author might have the quirky best friend of the quirky main character informed the audience that princess mary sue is terrible at cooking but we never see her attempt to cook anything for example in house md everyone claims that dr house never visits a patient but he does and more or less every episode or in game of thrones were told that walden frey's daughters are said to be infamously ugly but when we see the characters they just look like they forgot to put on makeup that morning fake flaws are flaws that we see over the course of the story but the reason these flaws don't count is because they're not narratively significant in other words they may be flaws but they aren't core to the character's personality they won't prevent the mary sue from achieving their goals nor do they significantly impact the narrative to the point that said character must overcome these flaws before they prevail in other words these flaws never present a critical problem and so the mary sue rarely if ever suffers any negative consequences for said flaws again just like in form flaws they simply exist so the author can peddle their substandard craftsmanship as acceptable tell us their character is flawed and well-rounded when we know full well that they're truly an imposter tv tropes again breaks this down perfectly she may be flawed but these are all informed flaws this usually happens when the author is actively avoiding these common traits but doesn't know how to do this realistically this usually leads to flaws that never actually hinder the character or make her look bad if it's something that makes her darker and edgier like substance abuse or nymphomania we never see any of the drawbacks of it if she's a klutz that makes her a cute clumsy girl sometimes it's a flaw that has no relevance to the story like being a lethal chef in a story where she never has to cook and sometimes she'll even complain about her awesome power or stunning beauty or special place in this world for no other reason than the author realizing that the character can't look too perfect except she usually forgets to write in the circumstances that would actually cause someone to react this way in other words lieutenant mary sue is just super special awesome and again tv trope seems to agree relatedly there is no effort to her skills she never actually trains or learns anything to become more powerful she just wins a superpower lottery or is a freakish natural learner or is just inexplicably awesome this is more or less why the marysue's domain of origin is fanfiction where the author is free to live out their personal fantasies in the world they adore with the characters they admire and what could pose a more delectable a temptation than the freedom to be perfect unfortunately the result is a character plagued by a list of unrefined creative choices a product usually made for an audience of one the author but the question persists we've talked about the hollow flaws mary sues are often plagued with so again what exactly is a meaningful flaw well let's explore this idea a little closer let's take a look at one legitimate mary sue character created for a big budget product rey from disney's star wars because of course when discussing abysmally written characters all roads will eventually lead to rey that and she just may be one of the most infamously sewish characters in cinematic history and there are a deluge of reasons throughout the sequel trilogy as to why rey has earned said infamy and why she has more than earned recognition as a mary sue despite the many flailing flaccid attempts to prove otherwise however for the sake of argument we'll concentrate solely on rey's supposed flaws of course the valiant knights of rey have galloped to her defense by smugly hoisting a mountain of informed flaws upon her back like a camel beneath the hot sun each one normally supported by head cannon fan theory or supplementary material seemingly written for the sole purpose of fixing the narrative hindenburg that is the star wars sequel trilogy in other words most of these tend to be imaginary not present in the movie or too inconsistent to be called traits let alone dramatic character flaws for example the argument has been made that rey might be gullible or naive but over the course of three movies she only ever falls for one pivotal lie that vin is a member of the resistance and this is important because believing this lie changes the course of her actions and the progression of the story compare this to the other instance of rey believing kylo renslay that her parents were in fact nobodies when in all actuality her father was the sun clone of the evil emperor palpatine a revelation that might have been a significant plot reveal but it changed nothing about rey's chosen path at least when luke skywalker learned that his father was darth vader his goals shifted from a desire to defeat the empire to a desire to defeat the empire and save darth vader when rey believes spins lie she decides to face down the first order dealership and most importantly leave jakku for the first time since she arrived as a little girl rey believing finn's lie ousts her from the ordinary life and into the extraordinary one on the other hand when rey thought her parents were nobodies her goal was to fight the first order but when she discovers that her father was the son of the evil emperor palpatine her goal was to fight the first order and the emperor in other words rey goes from fighting bad guys to still fighting the same bad guys hypothetically had the revelation caused a twist in relationship dynamics such as outing a trusted friend as a secret enemy then the case for raised terminal naivete could be made for example your father was an admiral in the imperial fleet after the emperor's death they were relentlessly pursued by the republic eventually your parents were forced to leave you behind on a backwater desert planet the assassin that killed your parents was not sent by emperor palpatine he was sent by my mother leia organa such a revelation would have meant rey had fallen not just for one lie but several rey would be too trusting especially of those she saw as friends not to mention it would put her at odds with leia which could potentially develop into a change in rey's allegiances after all if the good guys assassinated her parents and lied how are they any better than the first order rey believing the lie would keep her on course as champion of the resistance but knowing the truth just might give rey all the reasons she needs to explore the dark side of the force and embrace her tyrannical bloodline however instead of looking into each explanation i've chosen to focus on the one example that has remained relatively consistent across the board rey's constant obsession with family and in all fairness this trait is technically present within rey's character the term character here obviously being used as loosely as possible in fact were more or less introduced to rey yearning for her parents to return a trait allegedly detrimental enough to rey that many believe it should serve as a saving grace against the rampant forces of evil who dare degrade her with a designation of mary sue as forbes puts it when ridley says that her character's obsession with her parents adds to the brilliant hopefulness she's right but not because it isn't a weakness that grief of being abandoned and orphaned as a yoke around her neck something holding her back in many ways that she has to overcome the article in question centers around rey's flaws and argues that rey is in fact not a mary sue because she has one that flaw being the obsession over her parents also i'd like to point out that even forbes notes that a major character flaw is present so that the character can eventually learn to overcome it this will be important later granted forbes does attempt to redefine rey's obsession as grief but while grief may be something that drives a character to act recklessly or commit an uncharacteristic crime character flaws are permanent they're not an emotion that goes away over time they are a core element to their personality something the character struggles with to an extent that said flaw must be overcome in order to accomplish their goals within the story for example the godfather's sonicollion was famous for his temper it was a core element to his personality when pressed he was very quick to anger and this element of his character would eventually lead to his assassination but anger the emotion was not his flaw sony corleone wasn't constantly angry his flaw his fatal weakness was his inability to control his strong emotions in summary sony corleone was wrathful and because he never overcame this flaw his wrathful nature would eventually lead to his demise despite forbes peculiar claim grief isn't actually a character flaw and so could never be rey's character flaw instead hypothetically speaking the flaw would be the weakness causing the emotion however obsession over parents may not be the best argument for race cite either while obsession can take the leading role as an undeniably dramatic flaw and it could be argued that in rey's case it is one we see her display according to the rather overt messages of the star wars sequel trilogy this isn't entirely accurate after all as some might point out one of the most favored elements of rey much like a very bottom tiered dungeons and dragons character is that she's almost completely devoid of backstory or lineage other than her supposedly having parents and being abandoned by them at some point and even though in reality this is the writing equivalent of a child handing you a blank piece of paper and claiming it to be a drawing of an invisible castle the assertion remains that this is totally genius because rey being an absolute nobody shows us that one does not require special blood and that anyone can be a hero see it's not a bug it's a feature leaving aside for the sake of argument that luke skywalker already proved this very idea since his achievements came from hard work training and dedication and not from his father the journey to become a hero is a journey rey undertakes even if you just take the events of the force awakens and considering rey's actions over the course of the movie a more solid assertion for rey's supposed flaw would be an obsession with identity waiting for her parents is a desire to be part of a family becoming an instant attack dog for bb-8 is a desire to be a guardian joining the resistance is a desire to be a hero their relationship with finn and bb-8 is a desire to be a friend training with luke skywalker as a desire to become a jedi and how can we ever forget rey taking luke's last name to signify as she'd finally found the identity for which she had been searching rey even more or less confirms this obsession herself to quote rey i need someone to show me my place in all of this so even if given this level of generosity and we allow rey to claim this obsession with identity as a defining character trait does it really act as a significant character flaw to reiterate a tragic character flaw has three main qualities the flaw is central to the character's personality in other words not a background flaw that just pops up during comedic or non-critical events the flaw also serves as a major obstacle hindering the character from achieving their narrative goals for example macbeth's constant paranoia leading him to suspect his friends of treason preventing him from living the comfortable life he desired as a powerful king and the flaw must eventually be overcome before the hero can succeed for example jetley's character from hero is obsessed with selfless revenge against the king and so spends 10 years preparing only to realize that his selfish desire would return china to a constant state of war and he eventually overcomes this selfishness for the sake of peace to summarize a truly dramatic character flaw is narratively significant which means it hinders the character from achieving their narratively stated goals a narratively stated goal as used here refers to the character's main goal within the story a gold the story's plot or plots normally revolve around this can include anything from the main goal for example luke skywalker fighting to defeat the empire to side goals an example being luke skywalker training to become a jedi knight this does not include informed goals which might be stated by the character but does not connect to the story an example being luke skywalker wanting to enroll into the imperial academy this was certainly a goal but not one that became narratively significant and unless we get a movie following luke skywalker's life at st palpatine university it never would become narratively significant which means even if luke possessed a flaw that would bar him from the academy the flaw in question would not be narratively significant unless it also stopped luke from defeating the empire or becoming a jedi dramatic flaws are also often traits likely to be targeted by the temptress or in some cases the tempter for example anakin skywalker's overwhelming hubris was exploited by then chancellor palpatine in order to manipulate skywalker's fall to the dark side and here are some instances of anakin's dramatic flaw on display mace windu you are on this council but we do not grant you the rank of master anakin skywalker what how can you do this this is outrageous it's unfair how can you be on the council and not be a master or to again quote anakin skywalker don't get me wrong obi-wan is a great mentor he's as wise as masayoda and as powerful as master windu i am truly thankful to be his apprentice but in some ways in a lot of ways i'm really ahead of him but before we dive into this question let's take a look at another trait that many claim acts as a flaw for rey which also happens to be shared by none other than luke skywalker impulsiveness there are several examples of both characters acting without a solidified plan or without thinking things through acting on emotion rather than intellect but while luke's impulsive nature works as a dramatic flaw it never does for rey let's compare and for the sake of fairness we'll restrict the comparisons down to each respective character's first movie a new hope and the force awakens and for the sake of clarity a definitive act of impulsiveness as referred to here as one where the central character in question is presented with a critical situation and chooses to act either entirely without a plan or with an incomplete plan in a new hope luke skywalker along with the rest of the group found themselves trapped on the death star the planet-destroying space station of the evil empire it also just so happens to be the place where the empire is holding the honorable princess leia once the heroes discover this fact of very thirsty luke skywalker puts together a plan to rescue her for purely noble reasons of course on the spot luke comes up with the plan to dress up as enemy soldiers and simply walk their way into the prison where princess leia is being held all with the intention of walking her right out however they immediately get caught and things quickly regress from there luke and the gang once again hunted by imperials found themselves sworn by stormtroopers and forced into a garbage compactor where they were nearly well compacted alongside a fetid sea of odious imperial refuse and ryan johnson's equally odious ego they only managed to escape thanks to their droid friend archer detou who successfully negotiated their release then again their escape landed them right back into a firefight a firefight that ended with obi-wan kenobi mentoring close friend to luke skywalker slain by the empire and this was in contrast to obi-wan kenobi's original plan which was to have luke and the others remain behind while he prepared the path for their escape a plan by the way he would have succeeded at achieving if it wasn't for luke to summarize yet again luke's impulsive actions directly resulted in obi-wan kenobi's plans going wrong they walked into a highly secure prison the situation inevitably dissolved into a hopeless firefight which they survived by escaping into a swamp of garbage all resulting in the death of obi-wan kenobi and one needlessly violent catastrophe after another the only victories they achieved were handed to them by the empire to quote leia they let us go it was the only reason for the ease of our escape they're tracking us the empire allowed leia to escape in the hopes of tracking her back to the main rebel base and spoiler alert it worked now let's compare this to rey from the force awakens one of the most notable examples of rey's impulsiveness throughout the movie is her decision to steal the millennium falcon by this time rey along with bb-8 and a former stormtrooper named finn are on the run from the first order our mustache trolling villains for the evening the millennium falcon was raised second choice after the first order blew up their first one not to mention we get this little exchange when our heroes board the falcon finn you ever fly this thing rey no this ship hasn't flown in years well granted they do have a rocky start ticking off ray proceeds to expertly outfly a squad of train first order pilots in a run-down ship she's never flown before with her magically impeccable piloting skills not to mention that taking the million falcon in the first place is what eventually draws them to han solo so the rest of the movie can happen to summarize ray's impulsive actions led her to discovering a hidden potential in the force allowed them to escape the first order with bb-8 and magnetized them to han solo who then luckily provided our protagonists with a sorely needed link to the resistance when luke acted impulsively he lost a hero in obi-wan when rey acted impulsively she gained a hero in han solo luke's plan erupted in a miserable conga line of misfortune showing us that luke was still unrefined and immature that he acted with his heart rather than his head while rey's plan resulted in making sure the audience knew how totally awesome she was showing us that rey is super talented competent and don't need no man because luke's impulsive actions became a detriment to their goals one could easily categorize this trait as a flaw for the character however because rey's impulsive actions never harmed her journey and in fact often resulted in rewards one would be hard-pressed to label this trait as a character flaw and yes this includes the time rey decided to on a whim walked to the back of a bar and found anakin skywalker's legendary lightsaber that time rey desperately messed with the ship's controls to save finn from a weird tentacle monster which ended up working by the way and the time she instinctively decided to use the force powers gifted to her by the unholy gods of convenience to escape confinement so how does this all tie back to rey's supposed obsession for identity gaining the rank of rey's supposed dramatic flaw well it leads us to ask the following question does rey's obsession for identity affect the story a simple question but the answer will help us separate a fake flaw from a real one a real flaw being not only one that affects the story but presents a major struggle for the character and most importantly is narratively significant meaning it plays a major role in the makeup of the story this can range from the nerdy protagonist's social awkwardness keeping him from winning the heart of the cheerleader through simba of the lion king and his tragic immaturity that prevented him from realizing the seriousness of becoming king made him reluctant to face his uncle despite murdering his father and kept him content eating the bugs while said uncle stole his kingdom so what's the answer rey's obsession keeps her bound to jakku waiting for her parents to return rey could have used her endless roster of mary sue abilities to quite literally do anything instead rey has exiled herself on a desert planet and squanders her potential all for the sake of quenching this obsession at first glance this does seem like a flaw rey chooses to allow this obsession to run her life but again how does this affect the story while simba's immaturity was prevalent before the main events of the lion king they persisted throughout the story and became a substantial obstacle for simba to eventually conquer if you recall simba's initial goal is to become king simba's immaturity not only made him desire the crown but also caused him to disregard the heavy responsibility that would come along with it instead fantasizing about all the power he would inherit in summary it's clear from simba's introduction that he shies away from responsibility this leads him to running away from his uncle's scar and then choosing to stay away and this culminates into simba's love interest nala urging his return and then simba rejecting the idea once again choosing a childish life of fantasy and fun over one plague by responsibility this dramatic flaw brought simba to his lowest point and similar to rey allowed his flaw to prevent him from exercising his full potential and while simba eventually conquered this flaw keep in mind that said flaw was not a background element but instead heavily influenced the course of the story simba's rampant immaturity and his readiness to toss aside a life of demands for one of leisure was equally significant to the narrative as scars planned to murder simba's father so again what kind of role does rey's obsession play in the story of star wars does it play a role at all well yes but maybe not in the way that some people hoped if you only go by the events of the force awakens we are shown that this obsession with her parents does appear to hold her back as rey says to bb-8 don't give up hope he still may show up whoever it is you're waiting for i know all about waiting for my family they'll be back one day her words to bb-8 are meant to echo her own state of mind just as she advises bb-8 to wait she too waits for her family's return again to be as generous as possible and working under the reimagining that all narrative elements were executed competently meaning that we'll be viewing each situation under the assumption that rey isn't a mary sue and that her story both fits the established lore of star wars and flows logically rather than like a frankenstein's monster of approved events crudely sewn together narrative wise this obsessive focus on her parents serves as the same obstacle as luke skywalker's uncle owen something forcing the character to remain in place despite wanting more luke voicing his ambition to leave for the academy and rey looking up into the stars possibly wanting more or possibly still just waiting for her parents which would actually negate the symbolic gesture of her looking up into the stars as a way of telling us that she is pining for more and thus relegate the obsession to a mere trait rather than an obstacle but again assuming the narrative elements were ideal let's assume that rey is staring up into the night sky because she's longing for adventure as the story moves forward and the narrative evolves we see rake quickly begin to connect with bb-8 and eventually finn and this is where it becomes clear that in order to keep ray's hypothetical flaw consistent and give it the best chance possible to meet the criteria as ray's dramatic flaw we'll assume that the core nature would be obsession but for identity for example rey you're okay he's with the resistance he's going to get you home we both will and suddenly a lifetime dedicated to waiting for her parents broken in an instant the moment people drop into her life that she can make a real connection with granted we do get this little exchange ray i'll drop you two off at panema terminal finn what about you rey i gotta get back to jakku but after meeting han solo assisting in their escape bypassing the compressor being entranced by stories of luke skywalker the horror con solo and his holographic star map her desire to wait on jakku suddenly vanishes why because ideally after everything she had done until then this would be the point where rey finally has a taste of achievement a potential place of belonging and more importantly an identity and so the focus on the finding of her parents never comes up again for the remainder of the force awakens had her flaw been an obsession over her parents as forbes claimed the assertion that this trait was a flaw at all dissolves right along with rey's initial desire to return to jakku of course when han solo offers her a place on his ship she turns him down but she seriously considers accepting the position before clinging back to the familiarity of jakku actually keep this in mind we'll be coming back to it in a bit luke skywalker also suffered this reluctance to leave familiarity behind after expressing a desire to join the academy luke is offered to join obi-wan kenobi on his journey to save princess leia to which luke refuses to quote obi-wan you must learn the ways of the force if you are to come with me to alderaan to which luke responds alderaan i'm not going to alderaan it's late i'm in for it as it is listen i can't get involved i have work to do it's not like i like the empire i hate it but there's nothing i can do about it right now while this yearning for familiarity might seem like a flaw this base reluctance is quite common in heroes in fact in the hero's journey it's normally titled the refusal of the call to adventure so why is han solo's job offer the moment when rey first refuses the call and not the moment she meets finn because between unkar plut's thugs the first order's chase and the incident with the gangs the moment han solo offers her a job is the first time rey has actually had the opportunity to refuse and refuse she does so what does this mean it means that rey's reluctance likely doesn't stem from a flaw and just as luke skywalker chose to return home until he learned that the empire killed his aunt and uncle rey would consistently choose to run away and cling to the familiarity of her past that is of course until the first order attacked forcing her to make a choice luke could have remained behind to rebuild the farm and rey could have continued running however when the critical moment arrived both decided to fight back furthermore if one were to suggest that rey's refusal stem from a hypothetical flaw the next question would be in what way rey's main supposed flaw is an over-obsession with her parents or with identity but even if you added impulsiveness to the list two traits that again if we're to be generous are the most prevalent negative traits within rey across all three movies these traits wouldn't cause rey to flee under the presented circumstances remember when rey refused han solo's offer she decided in that moment to cling to familiarity rather than embrace the unknown to quote rey you're offering me a job to which han replies i'm thinking about it and then rey says if you were i'd be flattered but i have to get home i've already been away too long if you recall the context of rey's retreat from moz's castle she had just found the legendary lightsaber of great war hero turned galactic oppressor anakin skywalker maskanata then takes a break from being annoyed by han solo because if you're a woman in disney star wars you will of course eventually be assigned a man to be annoyed with and informs rey about her destiny which is no doubt confusing to race since she's one of the few heroes outside of dungeons and dragons to find her destiny in the back of a tavern nevertheless maz like any good agent of a frustrated dungeon master offers her a second call to adventure urging her to accept her second-hand fate leading to this exchange moz the saber take it to which rey responds i'm never touching that thing again i don't want any part of this she says echoing the feelings of many in the audience rey retreats when confronted with the revelation of her destiny fear of the new weight that has been suddenly dropped on her shoulders and of course fear of leaving behind the comfort of mundane familiarity in short this isn't cowardice and this isn't the result of some supposed obsession this is rey refusing the call to adventure this is luke skywalker refusing to rescue the princess with obi-wan kenobi this is the matrix's neo allowing himself to be captured by the agents this is gladiator's maximus rejecting marcus aurelius's request that he take the crown of rome this is the patriots benjamin martin saying no to war against britain even if ray's impulsiveness were at play here she would very likely accept her new identity without a second thought especially considering how fascinated she was with the resistance and the stories of old after all how could we forget rey's excitement when she's told that finn is a resistance bad boy to quote rey so you're with resistance i've never met a resistance fighter before or how excited she became when talking about bb-8 to finn soon after to quote rey again bb-8 says he's on a secret mission he has to get back to your base or how she went full fangirl upon meeting the great han solo in the words of rey this is the millennium falcon eurohan solo this is the ship that made the kessel run in 14 parsecs and this doesn't include the list of adventurous nonsense you'd already gone through up until that point like rushing in to say bb-8 or chasing down finn or fighting the first order and this is only from the force awakens in summary rey's so-called impulsiveness always pushes her into action rather than away from action oh and if one were so to believe that rey's flaw was an obsession for mr and mrs palpatine perhaps one should remember this exchange between moz and rey maz you already know the truth whomever you're waiting for on jakku they're never coming back to which rey cries without rejecting the idea as if she had known all along that waiting for her parents was a lost cause but refused to accept the truth as the old saying goes actions can speak louder than words hinting that it was not her parents specifically that she wanted it was an identity a place where she belonged if one were to still not believe or the trait in question concerns identity rather than just her parents moz outright tells the audience that this is the case moz you already know the truth whomever you're waiting for on jakku they're never coming back but there's someone who still could to rich rey mutters the name luke and then moz responds the belonging you seek isn't behind you it is a head moz gives rey a new hope in luke skywalker she tells rey that luke can help her find the identity she had craved for so long and while rey may run upon meeting her destiny and despite her having the choice to accept her destiny or flee once again the movie still ends with her on an island standing face to face with the galaxy's greatest hero besides maz is a woman in disney star wars it's her job to be right but this leaves us in odd territory because putting together what we see and what we're told whether the trait in question is an obsession for her parents or for identity it becomes clear that whichever it might be it isn't actually a dramatic flaw or even perhaps a flaw of any kind remember mary sues can in fact possess flaws they just lack narrative significance as mentioned before amerisu's flaws are often either in form flaws i.e simply told to us without being present or fake flaws which are present but may not be a core personality trait or serve as a major obstacle or must be overcome for the hero to achieve their goals if you recall a dramatic flaw fits all three like how the hubris of sherlock holmes caused him to underestimate irene adler during a scandal in bohemia leading to one of the few times holmes failed to resolve a case and his underestimation of adler forever cast her as the one woman who beat sherlock holmes confidence is a key trait of holmes character but can occasionally devolve into overconfidence and said overconfidence prevented holmes from completing the case during the scandal in bohemia and did have to be overcome before the detective could succeed sadly in this particular instance holmes failed to overcome his dramatic flaw and although he solved the case he failed to achieve his goal of resolving the case now let's return our focus to rey keep in mind that flaws affect the story by becoming obstacles on the road to victory so again how does her obsession for identity affect the story again giving the story and characters as much leeway as possible the obsession pushes her to endure living alone on jakku waiting for her parents i.e waiting for her identity to return and it pushes her to help finn it pushes her to seek luke skywalker it pushes her to connect with kylo ren if not a flaw what role does rey's obsession with identity play within the context of her character all things considered and again viewing events and story progression in the most generous light possible rey's obsession with identity is her motivation and more importantly her goal now some might say isn't fighting the first order rey's main goal within the narrative well no defeating the first order may be the overarching goal of the disney sequel trilogy but it isn't rey's main goal in fact rey doesn't fully commit herself to fighting the first order until the last jedi you know after she beats up luke skywalker for being a stupid stupid man and speaking of luke in a new hope luke skywalker's desire was to leave tattooing behind and live a life of adventure whatever that might have been and we hear luke clearly vent his frustration over his current circumstances with this line luke if there's a bright center to the universe you're on the planet that it's farthest from let's again assume for a moment that when rey placed that helmet on her head and stared up into the night sky at the beginning of the force awakens that she too longed for adventure in a similar fashion to luke remember both characters are apparently pilots and then there's the confrontation between luke and his uncle owen luke and if these new droids do work out i want to transmit my application to the academy this year owen you mean the next semester before the harvest luke sure there's more than enough droids owen harvest is when i need you the most it's only one season more luke skywalker yearned for something more and would have seized any opportunity to leave the old desert planet behind even signing up at the imperial academy the only thing stopping luke from pursuing his desires was uncle owen now let's look at rey even if he were to take rey's wonderlust as they desire to leave she refuses to do so and whereas luke was stopped by his uncle rey was only stopped by herself which ultimately means that venturing into adventure wasn't her primary desire her desire for identity was oddly enough the most definitive piece of evidence for this is rey's potential fall to the dark side the one that's hinted at in the last jedi as luke said to rey you went straight to the dark and you didn't even try to stop yourself which leads us to bilbo teeth ray the corrupted mirror image of normal teeth ray we see in the rise of skywalker a version of her who had embraced the dark side because she had found belonging in her identity as the main villain's granddaughter this particular scenario was only possible because rey so eagerly embraced the darkness and why would rey so readily reach for the dark side when luke learned to resist if this were a well-constructed story and again going by what we've been given the logical answer to this question would be that rey discovered belonging within the dark side presumably because of her blood connection with palpatine after luke skywalker lost his aunt and uncle the home he grew up in and eventually his mentor he was committed to fighting against the empire and committed to learning the ways of the jedi like his father before him in comparison rey's fight against the first order wasn't her choice she found herself involuntarily caught up in the conflict between resistance and first order considering she made the choice to fight after rejecting luke skywalker and kylo ren during the last jedi she ran to the only place left where she could find a sense of belonging the resistance and the last jedi ends with rey rescuing the resistance leading to the rise of skywalker's opening with rey having apparently fully committed to the war against the first order and if none of that is convincing enough let us not forget that the movies outright tell us that this is the case first mazda ray the belonging you seek isn't behind you it is a head rey also tells us herself when she says i need someone to show me my place in all of this also keep in mind that the original star wars trilogy signaled to us that luke skywalker's journey was complete with the burning of darth vader's body and celebrating the accomplishments of his goals the destruction of the empire and the redemption of his father as insulting as it was and again imagining the overarching story wasn't a completely incoherent mess the ending to rey's story only makes sense as a definitive ending to her hypothetical character arc if her main goal was the acquisition of an identity especially given that the entirety of the disney star wars horror show concluded with rey celebrating not the destruction of her enemies but finally finding her place within the galaxy to quote rey i'm rey ray skywalker so because there exists more evidence that rey's obsession is actually her narratively stated goal rather than anything else and because each act of impulsiveness acted more like a beneficial intuition rather than a detriment rey possesses no core character trait that adequately serves as an obstacle requiring to be overcome before her narratively stated goals can be achieved which in the end leaves her completely absent of any narratively significant flaws but what is critique without a little constructive suggestion after all it's simple to merely complain but can we in fact improve rey's hypothetical character or is she simply a lost cause well first because the use of the term obsession it's just an underhanded trick that valiant knights of rey utilize to disguise the most identifiable element of her character as a flaw and since it's more identifiable as rey's motivation the better term for rey's alleged obsession should be desire a desire for family a desire for identity remember a dramatic flaw must influence the narrative it must be a core element of the character's personality it must serve as an obstacle hindering the character from achieving their narratively stated goals and it must eventually be overcome before the character's goals can be achieved so how can we do this for rey well fortunately the groundwork has already been set so while a search for identity is her primary goal desire and motivation raise impulsive nature if we were to grant her that trait can serve perfectly as her dramatic flaw as mentioned before rey does show signs of impulsiveness however as previously stated said impulsiveness never served as an obstacle and often acted as a benefit ray rescuing bb-8 resulted in a possibility of attaining a small fortune of food and ultimately sparked the adventure that set her on the course to self-discovery from impulsively stealing the millennium falcon resulting in their escape from the first order and the discovery of han solo to impulsively bypassing the falcon's compressor during a crisis which ultimately saved their lives to ordering chewie to break down luke's front door that leads him to teach her the first lesson to on a whim walking out into the desert and facing down kylo ren to sailing across dangerous waters despite severe warnings only to make it there just fine and beating kylo ren to the macguffin ray's impulsiveness as it's presented is less of a flaw and more of a omnipotent sense of intuition like she'd already read the script or something so how would ray's impulsiveness work as a legitimate character flaw well we need not look any further than the previously stated example keep in mind one of the biggest problems throughout disney star wars is fault and how the writers placed it anywhere else except for where it actually needed to be ray rarely if ever suffers the consequences from her actions in most instances every time rey finds herself locked in mortal danger it's always the result of something outside of her control someone else's actions in other words someone else's fault for example rey's conflict with unkar plutt and the first order is the result of bb-8 not rey's direct action bb-8 was already being hunted by the order getting rey caught up in the crossfire when he convinces her to take him along yes rey rescued bb8 from a fellow scavenger but what followed was not the consequence of rey's actions in other words unkar plot's thugs and the first order soldiers would have gone after bb-8 regardless of rey's intervention in comparison when luke skywalker had his own confrontation with the zen people in a new hope his attackers were not sent by the empire nor were they hunting down r2d2 the sand people attacked luke skywalker because he was in possession of various valuables it was luke skywalker's impulsive nature that drove him to go in search of the runaway archer d2 on his own and without telling his uncle if not for the heroic obi-wan kenobi luke may will have perished out there on the hot tatooine sand but to better illustrate the differences between luke and rey let's see how the scenario might look if rey suffered the consequences of her actions rather than dealing with the consequences of someone else's actions not only would the fix be relatively simple it would provide rey with a dramatic flaw flesh out her character and streamline the story while also making it more coherent if rey had been required to follow the same rules as luke her encounter with a scavenger who initially captured bb-8 would have likely ended very differently the scavenger might have put up a fight when rey stepped forward to free bb-8 you know instead of just letting her have it like a simp as if rey were the bell delphine of jakku again assuming optimal writing conditions such as ray's mentor being established and clarifying the status of unkarplet's relationship to her other than creepy grump rey might find herself facing down the scavenger's brothers or friends after all a fully functioning droid would undoubtedly be considered highly valued merchandise in this scenario ray would fight the scavengers and win now one thing some may ask is if she still wins how is this any different than when she wins against unkar plot's thugs in the original movie this brings us to our next point why does rey step in for bb-8 in the first place in the force awakens there doesn't seem to be a reason she rescued bb-8 that makes logical sense from a character standpoint everyone on jakku is a scavenger and watching her compatriots hauling droids would likely not be too rare of an occurrence some may say she rescued bb8 out of compassion but after rescuing the droid she simply lets it go again she's even almost annoyed that bb-8 wanted to tag along the original scene is at the very least unclear so let's clarify the circumstances in this particular hypothetical scenario rey intervenes for two reasons one out of concern for bb-8 and two she dislikes unkar plutt and in this scenario bb-8's captor would likely work for him rey would likely know how terribly droids are treated by plutt and so steps in ultimately winning the fight and freeing the droid rey then would voluntarily offer to protect bb-8 until they find his master something she eventually decides to do in the movie anyway after some time rey would fight unkar plut's men again this time in far greater numbers with plutt leading the way himself but this time it isn't to capture bb-8 for the first order is to take revenge on rey after all if a lowly scavenger girl could attack plutt's men without repercussion it would show the others that the oh so dangerous unkar plutt might not actually be so dangerous and so rey fights again note these guys would be armed with melee weapons it's clear that their goal is to punish rey not kill her she takes the upper hand at first proving her prowess once again but as the fight drags on she begins to lose and this is how finn finds her however in this scenario finn actually contributes to the fight and together they fend off plutt's henchmen plut of course making a practical retreat when things begin to turn and ray's favor rei and finn then have a chance to talk finn telling our would-be jedi that he's part of the resistance and that he knows where to take bb-8 this is when plutt brings in the big guns as in henchmen literally armed with blasters because in plot's mind the time for lessons are over now it's time to set an example and to him there would be no better way to set that example than with rey's death finn's soldier instincts would then kick in sensing unkarplet's men just in time for them to make their escape both know they're facing an unwinnable fight and so head toward a ship this is where they steal the millennium falcon and since encore plutt seems to have a stock of ships under his command in the original movie it wouldn't be too far outside the realm of possibility for him to send a few pilots of his own to chase down rey and finn in other words the daring ship battle still occurs but against brutish thugs flying second-hand ships instead of train first order soldiers flying pristine first order fighters rey finn and bb-8 encounter han solo like they originally do and they wind up in a battle like they originally do however it isn't two random gangs that han solo angered with his foolishness but if that's the case then who do they fight against well here's where the first order makes its return knowing finn had crash-landed on jakku we could cut to a very angry unkar plucked in the middle of lamenting not only ray's escape but the loss of the millennium falcon and this is when captain phasma shows up after finding out that plutt was the man to speak with and this would be when they struck a deal and where we find out that plutt places trackers onto each of his ships jakku is a relatively lawless planet a place where one can't count on the local authorities so a man whose business is selling valuable things in a desert full of thieves adding trackers to his ship would make sense lore wise that is how the empire tracked down the luke group if you recall and so in this scenario phasma agrees to provide pluck with the first order resources if plutt agrees to help them track down the millennium falcon which they conclude would lead them to the droid plutt gets rey while the first order captures bb-8 and finn back on han solo's ship it's plutz gang that arrives on one side and the first order soldiers who arrive on the other and so when han finds himself trapped and alone talking them down while finn and rey escape he is putting his life on the line for rey's mistakes instead of ray just getting caught up in the crossfire for hans you know add a hint of fatherly instinct for rey's supposed father figure rey's impulsive decision to rescue bb-8 and defy uncle plutt comes back to haunt her had she not rescued bb8 or freed him in a way that didn't tempt the wrath of unkar plutt rey wouldn't have had to run and finn wouldn't have had landed back right in the path of the first order the very people he was running from in the first place the first order may have never been able to locate bb-8 and han would have never ended up facing down two angry factions all on his own in a lonely hallway to summarize not only would this scenario give rey a dramatic flaw with great narrative significance but it would show rey as truly compassionate for saving a strange droid from cruel servitude under unkar plutt she would demonstrate bravery by standing against plutt's men rather than crumbling in the face of certain defeat and most importantly it would display these noble qualities in rey while also showing them as unrefined and hindered by her impulsive nature not to mention the immense benefit to the narrative instead of han solo facing down two enemy gangs the audience has no stake in it's unkar plutch and the first order two factions who have already been introduced who have connections with the main characters and whose motivations the audience fully understands and this brings us back to the question of the hour can mary sues have flaws the undeniable truth is of course they can the misconception that mary sears our characters completely without flaws revolves around the quality of flaw they possess mary sues very often possess flaws that aren't inform flaws negative traits we're told they have but are never shown like telling your audience that your character is terrible at singing without ever developing the opportunity to tie it back to the narrative or fake flaws negative traits that present themselves but don't properly impact the story nor act as an obstacle for the character often used as a cheap ploy to stave off accusations of mary's sewishness without having to chip away at the character's supposed perfection it isn't flaws that mary sues necessarily lack it's the presence of a dramatic flaw one that properly impacts the narrative a core element to the character's personality a significant obstacle to the character's path to their narrative goal and something that must eventually be overcome before the character can achieve success mary sues are in the end the tragic results of tragically bad writing so many an intriguing and promising character led to ruin by laziness and ego authors yearning to self-indulge so they forget to burden their darlings with flaws or staple on fake flaws that provide no value at all perhaps with the thought that adding significant flaws offer lesser authors in that their stories are better superior because of the dense themes or deep messages hidden within their work that the fundamentals of writing don't apply to them because their works are so smart giving very little respect to silly things that cause effect and continuity choosing instead to jump right into the big moments the big speeches the grand gestures the narrative twists never realizing that the beauty and the magic of all of these moments rest within the very fundamentals of writing in the words of bruce lee i fear not the man who has practiced 10 000 kicks once but i fear the man who has practiced one kick ten thousand times even bruce lee a man who became an icon in martial arts emphasized practiced technique he realized the importance of understanding and perfecting the fundamentals of martial arts and the fundamentals of writing aren't much different just as throwing one fancy kick wouldn't be much of a threat without practice big moments and grand reveals mean very little without the more mundane work behind them from shakespeare to george orwell to neil gaiman and beyond writers who have touched hearts and minds explored grand ideas and dug into the nature of humanity who have all added theme and message to their stories all follow the same basic fundamentals of writing each one knowing their stories needed structure and logic and foundation and each one very likely knowing that the truly perfect character is only truly perfect when they are not perfect at all hmm

Channel: Literature Devil

Views: 79,355

Rating: 4.973505 out of 5

Keywords: mary sue rey, OC, creative writing, Disney, Star Wars, Star Trek, Paula Smith, Trekkie's Tale, Luke Skywalker, Writing flawed characters, Mary Sue trope, What is a Mary Sue, Lower Decks, Beckett Mariner, Star Trek The Next Generation, Wesley Crusher, Original Character, Star Wars Reimagined, Rey Skywalker, Darth Vader, How to write a story, character flaws, The Force Awakens, The Last Jedi, Kylo Ren, Did Rian Johnson ruin Star Wars, Hero's Journey, Rey turns to dark side

Id: W7CtqvjdnAY

Length: 57min 15sec (3435 seconds)

Published: Mon Mar 15 2021