Can a Store Force You to Show a Receipt Before You Leave? - Lehto's Law Ep. 5.65

hello welcome once again to Latos law I'm Steve Leto today we're to talk about what is probably the most requested question or topic I've had thrown at me in quite some time and that is when you're shopping at Walmart or Costco or Sam's Club and you're about to leave the building they ask to see the receipt to prove that you bought what you're taking out of the building can they do that what is the law on this what if you were to refuse these and other questions have been asked and it's funny because this is actually a hot topic and I never would have thought of this as such a hot topic because you know a number one I'll admit I'm not a member of Sam's Club or Costco I've been in them with other people who were members but I've been asked for a receipt before walking out of a Best Buy last time I bought something big at Best Buy's I was walking out the door the guy walked over said you know he said receipt class the receipt and I walked out it didn't bother me that much but I've had people tell me they get stopped at Walmart and I don't spend a lot of time in Walmart either there's another grocery store I go to this closer to my house but I've been in a Walmart before and I've had people so you know that Walmart is one of those hit or miss things some of them do it some of them don't but it's it's one of these questions I guess is that you know you just spent a lot of money in a store and you are walking out to your car thinking this transaction is done and somebody walks up this is may I see your receipt and underlying that I guess is a natural feeling that somebody's accusing you of something like you don't trust me do you think I stole something but they tend to do it to everybody at least the places I've been at literally check every single person as they went out the door so there's a couple different ways of looking at this but the first thing you have to realize is that the store is a private entity it is not the government so a lot of people want to start thinking in terms of constitutional issues does somebody have the right to detain you do they have the right to search you they or the right to seize you these are all things that the federal government has put restrictions on the actions of government actors and of course that applies to the states now as well but that's again state actions so you know a police officer walking up and questioning you is very different than a greeter Walmart or a baggage check person at Costco or whatever you want to call these so first of all don't even think about constitutional issues because the transaction we're talking about which is you being in a store purchasing things and walking out and having an employee of the store ask you may I see the proof of purchase that's not a government action so the constitutional issues don't arise here so the next question is of course what right do they have well there's there's going to be a division here because some of the stores I'm talking about our membership clubs so Sam's Club okay to shop at Sam's Club you've got to join the club and pay some dues and agree to some rules and I don't have a copy the rules with me because I'm not a member of the club but I've heard after research I did on the internet that Sam's Club specifically has rules internet says that they can do this and if you don't like their rules you don't have to join the club I haven't joined the club Sam's Club has not offended me by asking to search my bags I've never shopped theirs I'm not a member okay I've been with people who are shopping but I haven't heard shopped there so they've never offended me and if I were to join the club and they asked to see my bag and as part of the rights and rules of that club you got to put up with those rules and if you don't like those rules either ask them to change the rules or get out of the club okay so when it comes to the the shopping clubs that ask you to do this if it's in their rules they have the right to ask you to do it and there's nothing nothing you can say about it really I mean you can complain you can see I think it's a bad business for you guys and they're gonna say well we are also interested in keeping our costs down and we're trying to illuminate we call it inventory shrinkage or loss and that is people stealing stuff and if you aren't stealing stuff congratulations but we're trying to help you because when we catch someone else stealing stuff and we can put the stuff back in our shelves and maybe make this person go away it won't drive up your costs when you shop here so that's what they're gonna tell you so that's what the shopping clubs now what about the non shopping clubs you know the places just have their doors open to the public come on in a shop you go in there and you look at the price and a product you go I want to buy that product you take the product up to the counter and you'd have a cache your skin or you scan it yourself depending on your thoughts on that and then you pay the money you get a little piece of paper and and that transaction is complete you now own this thing that you just bought with this money as you're walking towards the door an employee the store stops you and says may I may I see your receipt now at that moment in time and this is interesting I found attorneys on the internet who said just keep walking just keep walking what are they gonna do tackle you well that's an interesting thing because you then get into a gray area and you say but wait a sec see what right does the store have to even challenge me at that moment in time and I'll tell you that the reason they have the right challenge is a lock called a shop keepers privilege and this will vary from state to state but I checked and in many states have got this look it up on the internet double-check your state but in Michigan it's actually not called shop keepers privilege but it's msel 620 917 as part of our revised Judicature act and basically what the law says and I'll read it to you so you don't think I'm making this stuff up but a shopkeeper has the right to detain you if they reasonably suspect and do believe that you have stolen something so you cannot sue a merchant or a library by the way supplies to libraries for any conduct arising from a person suspected of removing or of attempting to remove without right or permission Goods held for sale in a store or library materials no library if the merchant library agent or independent contractor had probable cause for believing and did believe that the person had committed or aided or abetted in the larceny of goods held for sale or of library books and so on and then damages for or resulting from mental anguish or mental anguish or punitive exemplar gravida damages shall not be allowed a plaintiff unless it has proved that the merchant library agent or someone used unreasonable force detained the plaintiff an unreasonable length of time acted with unreasonable disregard of the plaintiffs rights or sensibilities or acts was intent to injure the plaintiff so let's suppose you're walking up the door and the person says you know may I look in your bag and go now well the the merchants agent could to say the fact that you wouldn't let me look in your bag leads me to believe that you may have stolen something and I believe you did steal something so stay here while I call the cops now you might not stay there other call the cops but of course they'll follow you out to your car get your license number and call the police police are gonna show up and get involved and who knows what's gonna happen at that point now here's the thing I like to tell people there are arguments and fights not physical fights but confrontations you can get into that you might win somewhere down the road the question always is is it worth pursuing something if you're gonna win something it's gonna be such a pain in the rear end it's not worth winning do you really want the police coming out to your house saying hey we need you to come back the store with us bring your bag bring your receipt and we're gonna figure out whether or not you're a shoplifter and figure out why you wouldn't stop and we're gonna watch some tape and we're a sit there and watch a bunch of tapes of you walking around the store and what you put in your bag and so on are you gonna win that argument probably especially you didn't steal anything but the point is is it really a difficult say sure look at my bag okay so I know that you're thinking you're saying Steve but there's got to be more to this it's got any more of this well there could be more to this and I'll give you an example let's suppose they didn't ask every single person let's look in your bag but they only stopped women we inspect the bag of every single woman walking through here but we don't expect a mess or we pick a race go to play the race card they pick a race I'm not gonna say which race II just pick a race and say every single one of those people that walks through here we're gonna check their back no one else or we're gonna pick on short people it's Randy Newman song every single short person that walks by were to check their bag believe it or not all the things that has described you violate the law of Michigan called the Elliot Larsen Civil Rights Act and many states have got their own Civil Rights Acts that add often protections that weren't found otherwise at the state level or possibly weren't even offered at the federal level at the time and the Elliot Larsen Civil Rights Act for him it's a bunch of things in a bunch of different settings one of which is what merchants can and cannot do and they cannot treat their customers differently based on race color age height weight kid you not and a bunch of other things but but the point is that that you have to treat everyone the same so if the person is checking the bags at the door is checking the bags of every single person they're not breaking this law they're not breaking that law okay now if they did that's another story altogether but let's suppose you're just a person you know say they ten people in front of ten people behind you they checked all 21 people they check the receipts ten in front ten back plus you is twenty one they're gonna say well we've got the right to do this and it's it's shopkeepers privilege and the thinking is that you walked into the store without whatever it is in your bag and you're walking out with whatever is in your bag and they just simply want to check to see if it matches the receipt and if it matches the receipt no problem but if you don't want to show it to him why would that be alright are you hiding something so while researching this I came across a fascinating case and I'm not saying this case is necessarily indicative of what is going to happen in any given case but this is a true case and the case was published by the Michigan I'm sorry was unpublished later I will explain that nuance to you because it's one of the things that annoys me the most but the law in Michigan but the Michigan Court of Appeals put out an opinion unpublished March of 2012 and it's a case called Sarah's stalker versus Kohl's department store and Sarah stalker filed a lawsuit against Darryl Duncan who was a loss prevention supervisor for Kohl's and this is a fact that they admitted plaintiff shot lifted from Kohl's she stole something from Kohl's and Duncan who is a employee of colas pursued her into the parking lot a tussle ensued a tussle ensued that is the quote from the case a tussle ensued during which plaintiff tripped or fell or was pushed and she broke her collarbone plaintiffs sued defendants for assault and battering intentional infliction of emotional stress negligence and negligent hiring and training and again the facts of the case are she stole something made it to the parking lot where a confrontation occurred between her and a security person and in that confrontation she fell to the ground and broke her collarbone and so she sued Kohl's for the physical injuries that resulted from her falling and breaking her collarbone and the trial court threw her case out and that was upheld by a court of appeals and they point out that the shopkeeper's privilege doesn't necessary protect admitted shoplifters it was just designed to protect people who are accused of shoplifting but accused wrongfully of shoplifting and there's another concept in the law that says that you cannot benefit from your own wrongdoing and Andy I'm not gonna read the whole case because there's actually a lengthy opinion but the trial court determined that the wrongful conduct rule barred plaintiffs claims the rule is a common law doctrine that precludes a plaintiff from maintaining an action that is based in whole or in part on the plaintiffs own wrongful conduct so the thinking is if she hadn't gone into the store that day to steal something she wouldn't have been in the confrontation in the parking lot where she got her collarbone and broke him but again I'm not saying shoplifters deserved other collarbones broken I'm merely pointing out that that's the harsh reality of the of the law shining down on somebody who was accused of shoplifting so again when you're in the store can they ask you for the receipt well of course they can but can they force you to show it to them if you're in a membership club where you pay dues and agree to rules you probably have to according to those rules and if you refuse they can probably kick you out of the club then you ask yourself which is more important to me my righteous indignation or am i belonging in the club or I'll save some money but we're talking about the non clubs where anybody can walk in the door and buy stuff and then walk out the door they have the right to ask as long as they're not doing it in a disc in fashion they have the right to ask and then the question boils down to do you really want to make that stand be the one that you fight over because if you say no and you'll keep walking and they might say gee that's unusual behavior for somebody who has stolen something I'm gonna try to detain that person without a breach of the peace and if I can't detain them to get their license plate and have a police officer drag him back here so we can straighten this all out and you might win that argument but will it be worth your time in trouble probably not so here's the question again can they ask for it and can they prove you know can they force to show it to them probably probably but again you know this is the kind of thing where I honestly think if this offends people if it offends people instead of taking your time and harassing the person who's asking you assess their job maybe walk over the managers say I don't wanna let you know I'm going on record here I'm a good client I buy a lot of stuff I'm a good customer and every time I get asked did I steal something today and then treated like a shoplifter it annoys me just letting you know that and if enough people checked in and said that maybe they'd reconsider it but I have a sneaky feeling they'd probably done studies and the studies probably show this saves the money so that's the answer they probably can otherwise questions or comments is always fire my way talk to theater bye bye

Channel: Steve Lehto

Views: 555,686

Rating: 4.4069734 out of 5

Keywords: lemon law, lemon law attorney, lemon law lawyer, michigan lemon law, Walmart, Sam's Club, Costco, https://youtu.be/fIgwUZvIyVI

Id: VOiVKAWfKrA

Length: 14min 50sec (890 seconds)

Published: Mon Jan 21 2019

Reddit Comments

[u/DrZangief]

lol 5:06 and 6:30 are hazy interpretations of pretty clear jurisprudence. They don't have a reasonable belief and refusing a search isn't probable cause. Most jurisdictions have a set of things the shopkeep has to personally witness in order to reasonably suspect shoplifting and "refusing arbitrary search" isn't one of them. I'm sure this guy knows all of these things but he's actually obfuscating a pretty straightforward issue.

This is why I hesitate to make videos trying to explain the nuance of a difficult issue. At 10:00 he says "why won't you allow a search do you have something to hide?!" which is a sentence I've never heard a criminal lawyer say before ever.