BUILD A BETTER "FROSTY T" FORGE BURNER!!! Part 1

hi guys welcome back to the shop I'm pretty excited about this next series of videos because it's going to be some good hands-on content and that's something I'm kind of lacking on this channel I'm not trying to become the next YouTube star anything like that I just enjoy making videos because I enjoy making knives and stuff like that so yeah so this series of videos and it's probably gonna be simply like three I don't know for sure maybe more we'll see I was going to be on replacing this old thing this is this has been my Forge for the last 18 years and I have not used it constantly over the last 18 years but this is the only Ford's that I've had except for a brief period where I was using a coal Forge this is an old Valley Forge and tool brand and believe it's actually a farrier sport and that's when the burners are aligned in this direction as opposed to lengthwise and so it's designed to have be able to put two horseshoes side by side in there and I actually was a farrier for a time when I actually ended up not hot shoeing so I didn't really I've never really used this for its intended purpose it works for a lot of different projects but when it really comes to blades over the length of I don't know eight inches it really starts to break down especially if you have a blade that's so long that you have to heat treat in the Forge as opposed to my 18 inch limit in my kill and a recent experience with that really sort of pushed me to make the decision to replace this I wanted and needed a new forge set up for a while but I just been getting by with this it's time to at this point it needs realigned lots of different things but it's just not really designed for what I do mostly which is nice and so it's time to to make this the secondary forge and build a new more efficient better design Forge for what I do so I'm happy to bring you all along with that so let's take a look at the type of burners we're going to use because that's going to be the first step in this whole project so as you can see I carefully cleaned on section of the table here and we're going to tear into this box I got a number of pieces from supply house comm which is a great online resource this is all stuff you can get at your local hardware store so as we get into this I want to talk about burners really quick and my extensive online education of Forge burners taught me a couple of different things and it caused me to arrive at some different conclusions so we have a couple different pieces here all right now the type of burners that I'm gonna be making are called atmospheric or venturi burners or both I don't know I'm not an expert I'm just making this up as I go along largely and so this particular design is what's commonly known as the frosty tea burner because there's a guy goes by the handle of frosty on some of the forms that I guess designed this and lots of other people have replicated it there's actually some videos online that you can go watch which I did to help you understand how to put this burner together but before we get into the actual burner itself part of what I learned there more of what I learned is sort of how these burners work and essentially all venturi burners have some sort of tube body they may or may not have a flare on either end and some jet of some type shoots the fuel mainly gas propane gas could be natural gas into one end of the tube and out the other end a tube or excuse me a mixture of fuel and air exits and this is the side or the end that exits into the internal forged part of the forge and it's ignited in there now this whole venturi thing doesn't actually start to work in my knowledge until you actually light the fuel air mixture on the other side of this whole system because what happens then is the mixture expands and creates a different pressure a lower pressure which actually sucks or moves the fuel air mixture down the tube and at that point it's a continued operation continuous operation and therefore you have a venturi burner that's that operates as long as you shoot fuel into this end and so forth and so that's a very basic concept hopefully I explained that correctly but that's the basic concept behind these burners not to be confused with forced air burners where you have some sort of powered source of air that is pressurized like a blower or something like that and it forces air into the system those are great - and generally used for applications where you need an easier way to get extreme heat such as melting steel and that kind of thing which which is not the application for a force so these should do just fine now the frosty tea burner that's called that because part of the primary part of the burner is a pipe tea now these are 3/4 inch pieces of pipe 8 inches long this is 3/4 by 1 inch and so basically screwing together a couple of pipe fittings you have the basic body of the burner and the way the frost the tea burner works is we're gonna put a hole right here to install the jet assembly in which the fuel shoots down into the main body of the venturi and this is the end that it's going to be ignited in the Forge there are two things that this design of burner does not have that I would like to see mainly one and we're gonna correct that one thing I'm going to add that one thing and that is air flow control and nozzle adjustments so the Jets are going to be using this burger is an assembly of some fittings and a MIG tip for a welder a MIG welder point 0 to 5 is what I'm starting with and that's going to sit in here essentially the center and shoot the field out through there now let's talk about jets for a minute or the the fuel delivery system part of what's genius about this design is that because of the various fittings that were selected for this design there's there's minimal drilling milling or metal shaping required for the basic design of the thrust ET Forge now I went and researched a whole bunch of different designs and there's a myriad of different designs of Forge burners using pipe fittings are not using pipe fittings any number of different things okay and quite frankly they all probably work relatively the same and you can use whatever design you want but for me and my purpose is my budget what I'm trying to do with the burner this is the one that I settled on mind you with a an additional piece that I'm going to add like I just mentioned what I was saying about the the fuel jets you don't have to use a MIG tip there's different Forge burner designs out there in which you simply drill a very tiny hole or a small hole of the appropriate size and do say the end of an eighth inch pipe cap something like that you can make your own Jets the reason one of the reasons why I chose this design is because I didn't want to fiddle with making my own Jets I wanted something that was a specific size and quite frankly joining very small holes is rather difficult especially without machinery such as a lathe is that kind of thing so that was my personal preference the main thing we're gonna have to do with this particular burner is to drill home the top like I mentioned earlier so what we have here essentially is an 8-inch pipe threading on this end of the fitting here and then we have a quarter inch flare fitting on on the other side and the way that has to go into this piece is it has to be threaded down this way straight into here and this needs to be quite straight because we're gonna come back and thread out the hole on this side that will accept the mig tip and so this whole assembly threaded together it's going to fit down into here so without further ado let's get right into the first thing we have to do is determine where the exact middle and/or center of this pipe tee is on the top here and honestly the simplest in most accurate way to drill this hole would be to stick this assembly in a lathe and drill it like that unfortunately I don't have access to a lathe at the moment and I'm impatient so I want to get it done probably most of us don't have access to a lathe but more of us probably have access to a drill press and I would honestly recommend a drill press be used in in doing this now one thing you can do is by a short three quarter inch nipple and then a three quarter inch flange and screw those together and that gives you a flat surface that you can easily clamp and hold this thing flat one of the problems that I have right now is the parting line on this casting right here is sticking up and it's keeping this from sitting flat that's going to be a problem when we go to drill this in the drill press so I need to fix that right now so this is nice and flat I think with some judicious application on the grain or I think I can fix that up pretty quickly though so you can see right there hopefully that I carefully use the flat surface on the grinder it's not focusing sorry to take off the little nubs from them on that parting line right there and it seems to be sitting nice and flat I'm going to use a pair of calipers here to determine the middle of this whole piece here you can also use a ruler very if you're careful so we have two inches six hundred seventy thousands so I'm doing math on camera here that would be one inch three hundred twist so one inch screen or 35 thousandths let's go ahead and lock that off here and I can come back over here and carefully scribe where that is and that gives me the center of my pipe T okay so that's where the hole is going to go now hopefully this parting line is in the center at the top of the apex of this piece and I'm going to check that when I get to the drill press and I'll show you how to do that but for now I'm going to assume that that is centered and I'm going to put a center punch mark right there where we're going to drill that hole if I can get it in the right spot here okay that's where I want it all right okay so that's where we need to drill our holes so the size of hole we need is for a 1/8 inch pipe thread and that happens to be a twenty one sixty-fourth drill bit which I actually had to purchase online because I don't actually have one it's the way I'm going to do this on the drill press is simply by clamping this portion in such a manner that I can hold on to it but that it's going to sit nice and flush on the drill press table so that shouldn't work pretty pretty well just carefully here and make sure to keep everything straight so let's head over to the drill press now prior to this I came and checked the level nests or I should say the squareness of this table as close as I could this is an old drill press it's a little wobbly but this table is still nice and square and you want to double check that before you go to drill this just to try to keep everything as square and straight up and down as you possibly can to check like I mentioned a second ago we want to check and see if that's really the apex of this piece of pipe fitting where I put that right on that parting line the way to do that is to bring your drill down until the point of the drill is just barely touching the top of your material and you can move your material slide it back and forth on the table of the drill press and wherever the apex actually touches the very tip of your drill bit as you move it back and forth to sort of zero that in that is where the very top of your circle is in the center of that particular radius and as luck would have it fortunately that is very very close if not exactly where the center punch is already F so we'll go ahead and drill it nice sharp drill press soft steel pipe fitting drills very nicely what a pleasure alright so there we have our nice clean hole and we're ready to go ahead and put our eighth inch tap in there and the way I'm going to do that is once again using the drill press to line everything up of course you absolutely don't want to turn the drill press line or anything like that but to use it as a almost like an inverted lathe of sorts this would be something you would do on your lathe if you had one available as well you'd put your tap in the tailstock and and go ahead and and probably not under power but you would line it up and that would get things nice and centered so I'm gonna use the drill press in a similar fashion hopefully have enough length here lift them to my table up a little bit there we go okay grab my tap magic cutting fluid tell you what there's nothing quite like the smell is tap magic if you ever use it for it's it's a could be a gateway drug I'm not sure anyway put a little bit of that on there to keep your thread cutter nice and happy you'll notice like I took the second or vice grip software which I probably shouldn't have done that yet I'm gonna need a little hold onto this but I'm just gonna put the drop the chuck down there and start this I already barely just grabbed the threads there I want to keep this kind of press down just by hand so that I have that flat surface and that's what's gonna keep everything trued up and I'm just gonna work this down with downward hands pressure and start those threads like so a pipe thread is tapered and so you're essentially always cutting so you reach the end of your taper so I've got started I've got a few threads maybe one thread cut and I'm gonna keep going it's it's cutting nice and easily you know with that cutting fluid it really really helps something to keep going as long as there's minimal resistance you ought to make sure that you get these threads started good before you go to messing around generally speaking when you're tapping a hole you want to back off half a turn you know every turn or so to break that chip up otherwise you run into issues but I'm meeting very little resistance here probably due to the softness of this material the cutting fluid and this tap has literally probably never been used before so I'm going back to threads off here again not again for the first time actually we kind of see what we got going on here looking good so yeah we tapped all the way down through and I'll probably want to tap about halfway up with the the tap itself just to get sort of that general what's the word sighs I'm not sure I don't want to go over at the top man you stretch the imagination but I want to get a little bit further up there so as you can see that's going on nicely by itself go up a little further here and because like I say this is tapered so we're cutting it's actually making the hole slightly more so it's something wider which is to accommodate the nature of the tapered pipe thread for our fitting so I think that's probably adequate I've met about 1/3 of my tap left and I think we're good there so if I have any issue with the depth of my brass fitting imagine I can come back and tap some more if I needed to but I think that's going to be more than adequate when we move the tap here redneck air compressor and go ahead and move on to the next step sorry the lighting is not the greatest in here but anyway checking the threads there with this eighth inch pipe thread on our fitting it's it works just fine and it threads down in there and as you would expect on a pipe fitting it it snugs up in there because of the tapered nature of the threads and so the next thing I have to do is get this back out is to thread the inside of the eighth inch pipe thread side of this fitting to accept our big tip no thinking about how to do this and I think I'm going to employ the drill press again just because I want to make sure that those threads are nice and straight and just to note of the MIG tip a lot of these affect the actual plans for this I believe is 0.03 5 35 thousandths size hole I started with where I'm starting with a 25,000 sized hole because based on like I said my extremely extensive research online I believe based on my altitude that is the the better sizes okay back of the drill press here got my quarter-inch 28 tap which is the finer the fine thread of the standard quarter inch threads and I'm just going to chuck that up here and then let me move my table up here like say I'm just going to use this whole set up here as a method to true up or make sure that everything's straight because if you got your nozzle pointing off to one side whoops in your burner that could cause performance issues and of course we don't want any of that once I get some pressure running with the tap hopefully that kind of pushes it down yeah kind of pushes it down straight so now this is where you need three hands obviously but I'm just trying to keep this from turning I'm not really trying to hold it hold the vise grips all that much so I'm gonna keep the vise grips from turning get some downward pressure and just start turning that Chuck by hand and as you can see it appears to be going relatively well okay so we've got a threaded down and there probably plenty deep for the depth of the mag tip threads and they grab that really quick here and check that Theory nicely threaded okay so I want that to seat down nicely you can see there's a gap right there maybe you can see that so I need to cut some more threads pretty happy with that so another thing I wanted to point out is all the materials for these two burners including the fittings to get the propane line onto it was under $50 and so if you're looking to build a burner or get a burner you really don't have to spend a whole heck of a lot of money to get a serviceable burner for your Forge I've seen these same burners for sale for close to a hundred dollars on different online locations and in my opinion why would I ever spend that kind of money when I can take literally about half an hour and 25 bucks and make the same thing so that's just me um so anyway we just need to go ahead and screw this fine little assembly now I don't know should I should I seal that right there I don't think I really need to I think this copper this copper tip and this brass fitting will mate up decently I think if I go ahead and tighten that down snugly I think the nature of you know the brass and the copper a little deform it just enough to provide the tight fit and worst-case scenario you know it's it's right it's right there anyway so I'll just keep an eye on but I don't I don't think I need to I don't think I need to seal that no I don't want to tighten that too much strip that baby out and it wouldn't be any good but that fit to fit down there nice and tight and like I say with the soft copper made it to the brass I think that'll be just fighting like that you can probably try to put some kind of pipe sealant on there if you want but I'm not going to do that right now so then simply need to install the fitting into the top of our tea and again this is this doesn't need any sealant cuz that's not a pressurized at all I simply just a mechanical spot to hold this in I'ma guys tighten that down super hard because we don't need to so that's the that's the top of the burner right there the jet in there is probably not quite two-thirds of the way through that diameter very close to half and we'll see if that all fits together and works for my particular elevation and pressure I'm thinking it will so like I said I've got a quarter-inch flare right here and I just need to get that hooked onto some propane gas go ahead and put the body of the venturi burner on here which again is a three-quarter inch pipe nipple eight inches long and you could go from anywhere from my understanding from six to probably ten inches but the eighth inch just seemed to be a good length based on my purposes and I'm gonna stick this flare on here recorder to 1 inch flare again if you're going directly into the forge you really don't need a flare in my in my knowledge but for the purposes of testing this I'm going to stick that on there and there you have it in essence that is the frosty tea burner and that literally took me about 20 minutes to put together even while filming this moving the camera around and stuff like that and I can see the parts that you see right here is probably $20 and then I got some additional fittings to try to get it on to some propane gas and so you're looking at more like 25 that's pretty cheap for a four-burner no let's see how this thing works so literally the hardest part of this whole Forge built or I should say getting the yeah the hardest part of this whole thing for me was to find the appropriate fittings to get from this quarter-inch flare to my propane source which is off of that 3/8 flare you you'd think that there would be a simple fitting that would go from quarter-inch flare blah blah to it 3/8 but I was not able to find it and if you are then more power to you but what I finally did is I bought a couple of these fittings one for each burner and this is actually quarter inch pipe with and it's an inverted quarter inch flare no inverted it's backwards because it's the same thing as this right here so that really doesn't help if you can find a proper female quarter-inch flare that would be awesome I I couldn't so it has the proper threads but what I had to do is I had to go and didn't show this on camera but I don't recommend I don't I'm not recommending modifying fittings but in my situation I went and drilled out with a standard bit that fit in there that inverted flare so it would match the angle here and on final assembly I'm probably going to wrap these threads with some appropriate pipe tape so that that's sealed on their own normally the flare fitting seals right here where it meet match matches up and you wouldn't have to worry about that but since I have modified this slightly like I say I'm not recommending that so don't go home and do that but anyway it screws on there now and I can use this this fitting to get from from here to here now I have some other fittings in the mail that are not here yet so I actually had to rob a couple of things off of my existing forge forge fittings just so I can go ahead and try this thing out so I'm going to tighten down this fitting right here this quarter inch pipe onto this quarter inch flare and it's very funny because all these different fittings have different they're very and just so you know if you're not familiar pipe is not based on the outer diameter it's based on the inner diameter and pipes are different thicknesses called schedules and all this kind of stuff so just be aware of what you're working with has get a little confusing if you're not a plumber or something but all that to say I'm gonna try to make this thing work I don't know if this needle bombs actually any good anymore it doesn't really seem to do what it should but there is the Forge burner is earning and let's see what happens if we crank up the pressure so that's five psi it's amazing I can actually feel the suction of this venturi if I put my hand against here it's pretty cool that's a carburizing flame right there okay so this is pretty cool it actually works the design seems sound seems valid just out of curiosity I'm gonna go ahead and screw on this one-inch nipple that I have here and kind of see what that does to change anything so this actually adds more of a flair to this whole venturi thing and one thing I am noticing is that this is uh this flare right here or fitting is is pretty hot from operating right now that's fine that's gonna be right up against the forge in practice and of course the flame where it actually ignites is going to be extended down a little bit because of the thickness of your insulation in your Forge so to sort of simulate that a little bit I'm going to add this flare and kind of see what happens now again I'm going to turn it down to let about two psi that seems to be a little low that's two right there capped about four huh okay so I'm learning about these venturi burners as I build this now what I just did there is I added more length and apparently what's happened is it's not allowing the gas air mixture to ignite close enough to the venturi and create that lower pressure area and there might suck the fuel down so just by adding that little piece of pipe there I've destroyed the whole operating principle of this venturi very interesting so things like that that you learn along the way as you continue to build the Forge and the burner and all this kind of thing is going to be important so how is that going to influence my Forge build well at the very least I'll probably just have this spinning here maybe not even that fitting maybe I'll put the burner directly into the Forge and let the body or the inside of the Forge act as that expansion chamber to let the venture work I don't know we'll find out so I'm curious can I cut this nipple off half here and will it work - then I'm gonna try it okay so for experimentation purposes in sort of the test of parameters of this particular burner and went ahead and cut down a sick of Titan upon a little lesson half actually there's only about a quarter inch of pipe left to be on the threading of this pipe so I'm going to go ahead and screw that on it's just gonna add a little more length to this whole flare deal that we have blue and I just want to see if the burner will well cooperate with that situation give me a better idea what I need to do inside my Forge when I attach these to the new forge build some time to about 2 psi right now and you know what if this was inside of a forge where it could create a heat pocket to make that expansion possible this is very well might work but in open air right here it apparently is not able to expand that fuel air mixture close enough to the venturi body to actually make that whole venturi that whole thing happened okay so it's not working like this but it might work if it's in a in a particular forge setup I don't know now this so I can sleep at night I'm gonna make sure that this thing still works as is and it does the next thing we need to do is develop and I want to show you guys the idea I have for an efficient and useful air intake control system the reason that's important is because especially because I plan to do a lot of Forge welding and that kind of thing in this new Forge the ability to create at the very least a neutral flame and at times a carburizing flame is going to be really important and what that is is when you send that fuel air mixture into your forging this burning is heating up your steel as it does for forging or welding or whatnot if there's any oxygen left over that hasn't been burned that can and will react with your steel create scale things like that which will which is which is a new sense even when you're forging but it's a lot worse when you're trying to forge weld and that happens so the ability to control that air flow to let just enough oxygen in depending on the circumstances and what I'm doing but not any more than necessary that's going to be important so I'm excited to show that to you guys which I feel is going to make this frosty T burner kick it up a level and make it even more viable and useful that's going to be the second video in the series partly because my camera battery is about to die and probably because I want you guys to come back and watch another video so thanks for watching and have a great day

Channel: Fire Creek Forge

Views: 100,544

Keywords: blacksmithing forge, forge burner, frosty t burner, atmospheric forge burner, Venturi burner, propane forge, diy forge, diy forge burner, forge burner build, forge build, pipe fitting forge burner, fire creek forge, elijah williams, forge burner how to, forge burner tutorial, knife making forge, blade smithing forge

Id: gx0GqfX6jf8

Length: 34min 22sec (2062 seconds)

Published: Sat Jan 26 2019