Brexit: Rod Liddle and People's Vote's Tom Baldwin on 'betrayal' - BBC Newsnight

we have still not left the European Union questions one that seems to pervade the better or worse everything our politics is currently about some will see it as betrayal some as respite rod little who voted for brexit says he predicted on the evening of the referendum result that we would not leave he blames what he calls the establishment Tom Baldwin is a leading figure on the people's boat campaign former adviser to Ann Miliband and believes we'd be better off taking the mess we're in back to the people welcome both I wonder about the timing of your book rod you've called it the great betrayal when we're about to leave well we're three months away from leaving probably with the hardest brexit that anyone imagined I know that that fear lurks in all remainer hearts but I don't think that that's what's going to happen the books called the great betrayal because we were meant to have left on March the 29th and we didn't at three years almost for the government to try to do what the people had asked them politely in that referendum what they might do and it hadn't worked and the same the same dynamic is there right now yeah so when it had worked what is this great betrayal we had a a prime minister who God knows tried for three hearts deliver brexit we've got an incoming PM who's promised a fixed date you know and a hard what I said but what's he said it's the same narrative as before so this idea of no deal which was brought up by Oh which was brought up at resume when she went to Brussels and when she went to go she ate his task and and Europe it was a paper tiger and it was a paper tiger because all the time back home Philip Hammond would be saying there is no possibility of a No Deal there is no possibility what do we have now Boris Johnson stays solid date October all the people in the or eg all the wreck cities who didn't vote for it stop brakes it happen what I do it's in the book possibly but just to go back to that other point about Boris you know Boris has said very ferb we leave we have to and has raised the prospect of No Deal and then at other times has said there is a million to one that we will leave with no deal in other words it's a paper tiger at mornin look I mean I think a lot of people do feel betrayed by the last Ria's and brexit I think remainders and leavers feel betrayed by what's happened embrace it because what's being offered now where it's a revival of trees amazing deals or lipstick on that pig or an accidental slide into No Deal which i think is a real prospect it's both for a million miles away from what was promised in 2016 the thing that you voted for on that basis you've got a kind of mis-selling scandal here you've got something which is not being delivered which was promised you've got Parliament divided they can't decide on what form of exit to go ahead with you've got the country divided and the solution is to be finished democratic crisis it's more democracy not less well course the latest opinion poll from you have suggested in 57% of the population want to leave in some form or another interesting this yeah you can you can you can slice and dice and slice and dice it in different ways you quite polls in your book as well as showing up there's now remain majority now I mean if you're so confident about this let's put it back to do the people voted I mean I don't think this is about what do you call it well what's what's the what's the phrase you give to the people's web these days of course it's a people's row because I usually vote as well but the people have been let down yeah you call it tell people at be mature date here by the politicians let the people decide this and sort this mess of bracing like clearly the perhaps it hasn't been the problem brexit hasn't been the problem we're the proxy do you want brexit what sort of great students it hasn't been the problem the ineptitude of the politicians and also the deliberate betrayal by some of those politicians included quite a lot on the remain aside that has been the problem there's been no inherent problem as breakfast now I would leave with no deal I would prefer to leave as no deal than to leave with the deal which the ER Jia's vote unity here because you're delighted that we haven't Breck stood yet and you're delighted that you can get angry about it because that's your currency you can get my point is that I'm angry because we haven't left the people trying to represent the people that's why I've written the book that radu angry that they have left to say that our main argument was that all leavers were basically racists and xenophobes I'm sorry I said you pretty much say that the remainer argument is that all leavers basically racist until I say that was one of the that was one of the big tropes of the elect of the referendum campaign didn't work very well obviously telling your the people you want to vote for you that they're thick racist uneducated and even worse than any of those things old didn't play very well but it has helped some of the MPs to a swayed to their fears of going against the public vote use would you describe yourself as a racist because many see you that way well no obviously not but I I am used to going on BBC programs and being accused of such things yeah when blowing themselves up in town Labour MP Kate or small same job Jesus interview at every possible juncture show the BBC's your writing great betrayal it is that all brick cities are portrayed as racists and then you're saying postal voters in Peterborough thought they were ticking a box to choose a Tarka dal or a brinjal bajji I suppose this last comp will be considered a racist it is consistent casual racism not casual racism to do with racism why do you say it's about voter fraud in Peterborough which happened particularly amongst a Pakistani community and it was organized by a man who Tarek machmood who was sent to prison for doing exactly that so get a grip and why is it go on top is it then Rob to sort of defend rod for say he's a paid policy's paid a lot of money by Rupert Murdoch and the Barclays brothers to be a sauce guard or what he calls the establishment the trouble is you are you are this damn straight right wiggly wiggly when you wrote as many points out that you wanted a Islamic fundamentalist to blow himself up in Tower Hamlets because it would be a decent distance from the rest that where the rest of us lived was that the people was it white people was it rich by a serious point as you well know sometimes yes you do not know in comedy you do not understand it wonder when it's so consistent when it's week after week the ball that you spew up has to be who you are this kind of star pile why would you mention black mp's female labor and bees one week and Tower Hamlets the next week and the people who are chicken tikka boxes a real problem you cannot but help it that there are seventeen point four million people out there who are distressed they're distressed at the betrayal and one of the things that most distressed about is the way the BBC's behavior the last two you said you seen portrayed as xenophobic and racist I'm simply using your name I mean either game I know yes you're doing it again yeah know what catch what I said I speak what I think is the truth and what I think people like to hear Tom your argument that we have to go back to the people's vote is exactly the noise that left us all in this ridiculous position you don't accept democracy we've had democracy we've had the vote look when you're in a democratic crisis like this when NPS can't decide what to do when the country is divided I don't know I'm not I'm not a huge fan of her friends I spent 2015 general election opposing David Cameron's reckless decision to have a referendum I'm not jumping up and with joy at the idea of an but I do think this is the only way to solve this crisis it's the only legitimate way to solve this crisis no I didn't started working for people's vote campaign last year people who are infected with the people's vote come on top with a very very few exceptions are people who voted to remain I mean and what I want to get is more and more people like you rod who believe that there's been a great betrayal and I want people to recognize now that your whether you voted leave or remain the only way to sort out this gigantic mess is to put it back for people trust the people be a Democrat rather than hide behind establishment are the big proprietors of the newspapers that you work for the democracy the democracy is spoken but you won't listen to it and you wouldn't listen to it a second time either and if you wouldn't listen to it a third time and of course the next vote of course wouldn't be quite as simple as that it would be bitterly Mae's deal it would be Boris's deal and another deal or leave or stay and you know that it wouldn't be you know that it would be gerrymandered so that the people who actually do trust our democratic system I don't think Peterborough is a system of voting fraud I don't think I don't think there's people who didn't speak English as you put it who fought their vote to take gearbox of a Bombay aloo but that's exactly what happened in other places around the country in Birmingham before their ordinary curry there was literally no there was not that was a joke you don't get jokes okay on that final thought we will end very much

Channel: BBC Newsnight

Views: 95,996

Keywords: bbc, newsnight, news, interview, rod Liddle, betrayal, the great betrayal, EU, Brexit, democracy, referendum, politics, People's vote, second referendum, sunday Times, columnist, racist, racism, divided, Tom Baldwin, The spectator, emily maitlis, no deal

Id: PM4HN7TeDvA

Length: 10min 28sec (628 seconds)

Published: Tue Jul 16 2019