Blue: Hello everybody, and welcome to
another episode of detail diatribes, where today we're going to be spending some time
talking about the world design in a little video game called breath of the wild!
Red: Yeah! B: Uh, and i'm joined by Red, uh, who will
help me, uh, explore the the wonderful and very terrifyingly old world of hyrule.
R: Howdy everybody, I'm very excited to talk about legend of zegend today. Let's have a good time.
B: the lego of zego R: lego of zego!
B: So I have played breath of the wild through
twice, we've streamed it - um, Red, you have other experience with the
zelda franchise besides just, um, our breath of the wild streams - uh, is that correct?
R: Yes. Twilight princess, my one true love. uh- B: twilight princess!
R: um, and I'm tangentially aware of, you know, most of the stuff about it - pop culture osmosis
has done me proud in the legend of zelda space. You know, everybody knows about link and-
and zorda and all them jazz and - yeah, so, you know [laughs] I I'm pretty much-
B: lonk and zarbo- R: [laughs]
B: yeah- R: lelda and zeldo
B: so today we will we will be engaging in a little bit of world design analysis to see that,
uh, the version of hyrule as we have it in breath of the wild is old as f[HYAH]ck
R: yeehaw B: [laughs] uh, so we will be
conducting a rigorous academic analysis, uh, thereof. First things first I would like to
give a huge thanks to the youtube channel Zeltik, uh, he is a legend of zelda youtuber who does all
kinds of videos on theories, lore, analysis of, uh, breath of the wild and all the other zelda
games and his, uh, zelda theory videos were an inspiration in my process of putting this video
together and also a lot of the visuals that you'll be seeing - all the fancy b-roll - that's all
his so if you like what we're talking about here and you want to learn more, uh, there is a huge
community of zelda theorists out on the interwebs, but we've got some recommendations for where you
can start with Zeltik if you want to follow on some of the stuff we're going to be specifically
talking about in this one, so thank you Zeltik - R: (woo!)
B: - for being great and for giving us your permission to,
uh, to use your theories and your footage and let's- let's talk about this game.
R: let's just jump into it! B: yeah, the timeline of zelda is very complicated
but what you need to know for the purposes of this video is that there are three things: at the very
beginning is the legend of zelda skyward sword. R: Mm.
B: -and then there's literally every other game- R: [laughs]
B: - and then at the very end of the timeline is breath of the wild.
R: Yup. B: Everything in the middle is just a mush that
you can rearrange and it doesn't really make a difference but the very beginning is skyward
sword, the very end is breath of the wild, that's all you need to know. [laughs]
R: we can refer you to the brian david gilbert legend of zelda unraveling timeline
unraveled video from back in the old days, uh, of like two-plus years ago.
B: An absolute classic. R: absolute classic, uh, I wouldn't recommend
using it as a rigorous academic reference but, you know, it -
B: yeah. R: yeah. uh the gist, as you've correctly stated,
is skyward sword is the very first legend of zelda game. It is the one that originates the
characters of link and zelda as they are going to iterate throughout history. It- it creates
ganon as, uh, like a- an instance of this god of evil or something - demise -
B: the demon king Demise. R: yeah that guy - who you fight in a featureless
mirrored plane because everybody loves doing that, and uh -
B: [laughs] R: sassing of skyward sword aside, then there's
a whole bunch of other stuff in a nebulous and unclear order that branches at least three
times and then at the end it's breath of the wild. Every game ends up in breath of
the wild somehow. Because the time break~ B: yeah, like, everything before breath of the
wild is the era of myth. It's all like, yeah, we have legends of this stuff, but like, ehh??? So-
R: the LEGEND of the legend of zelda! B: [laughs] the legend of the legend thereof-
R: because breath of the wild has a 10,000 year gap wherein all the other sh*t happens, but yes.
B: yes, so breath of the wild, uh - the map is very big, uh, it is full of references to
older zelda games. These are not necessarily the same actual locations, but they are cutesy
references. So for instance if you've done the eventide island side quest off in the bottom
southeast corner of, um, of the map, this is an homage to link's awakening - a game wherein link
wakes up on a mysterious island called Koholint, uh, and has to wake, uh, the - the great whale
deity, the wind fish to- to escape. Uh, the entire island is a dream, it's not real -
R: Mm. B: - but here is an island in breath of the wild's
hyrule that's basically koholint. It's got toronbo beach, which is the name of the beach in koholint-
R: huh! B: - and there's Koholit rock, which is a slight
corruption of the name, and that's a thing that they do a lot, is that they'll have names of
things that are references to all their- to other things, but like, a letter is changed, a syllable
is different, it's- it's a very, you know, simple, uh, trick. So, you know, we've got koholint, but
it's - it's not really the same Koholint, it's just a reference. Similarly, uh, mekar island,
uh west of the great korok forest is a reference to the first dungeon from the original legend of
zelda game. It's not strictly the same location, it depends on on how much you want to buy into it,
but it is a very cute reference where there is one burnt out tree surrounded by-
R: Ohh! B: - four smaller trees on an island that is,
uh, just, you know, it's a cute reference. R: Yeah!
B: There's nothing really more to it than just - than just the stylistic
continuity and the visual echo, uh, but it is cool that it exists. Uh, mekar island is actually named
after makar who is a character from wind waker - R: Oh yeah…
B: uh, a - a little - a little korok fellow, so this island
is actually right next to the great korok forest, so there's - it's references! It's- it's not like,
you know, strict like "this was the thing that was here" - it's just - it's, it's references.
R: yeah, so- so these would be like kinda non-diegetic callbacks where it's like-
B: Yes. R; - in universe there's no reason for
this to be the same but it is anyway - B: Yeah.
R: so it's - it's like… it's - it's like poetry, it rhymes.
B: Yeah. R: Yeah.
B: basically no one within the - the world of breath of the wild would recognize these
as references to the other games, um, it's only something that player can really process.
R: oh my god! why has nobody made a meme of, like, link's starting one of them flashbacks
and then just snapping back to one of the older games! [laughs]
B: [laughs] R: does the slow zoom on his eyes and then
it's like [hums the Lost Woods themes from Ocarina of Time]
B: [laughs] R: HYAH
B: he looks at the temple of time, accidentally goes feral and turns into a wolf again
R: [laughs] Aw, dangit! B: so there are a million of those, those two
are pretty illustrative. But as we- we move forward there's a lot of lore within breath of
the wild that is unique to breath of the wild that conveys how insanely old this game is, and
this is not a comprehensive list, otherwise we'd be here for - for literal months but-
R: yeah, yeah. B: immediately, like, the - the smallest scale
of time that we really work with in this game is - link, right now, the time that the player
is playing as, versus a hundred years before when the great calamity happened. So there's
an immediate 100 year time jump between, you know, link and zelda running around as- as
kiddos having a great time preparing for the great calamity, great calamity happens, link is
asleep for a hundred years, events of the game. R: "asleep," quote-unquote.
B: so there are a lot of things from the pre-calamity time just a hundred
years ago that are, you know, in ruins now, but in cutscenes and stuff and flashbacks you'll
see it before. Uh, they're - basically the whole game is like this. There's stuff that was, you
know, it was not ruined before the calamity and now it is. It's like the most modern of modern
things, um you can imagine in- in terms of zelda time. But going slightly further, um, down in
the southwestern corner of the map there are gigantic statues in the desert
that- that nobody understands- R: Aw, love it.
B: - and one of them is missing. R: [laughs]
B: [laughs] uh, in the gerudo desert there are seven statues of legendary heroines, but the
eighth one of them is not with the other seven. The eighth heroine is over the gerudo highlands on
the opposite side of a ginormous mountain range, but her sword is not with the statue. The sword
is buried in the rocks at the top of the mountain! R: Haaa.
B: so the questions are, why bother to move the statue when you could have presumably
just destroyed it for a lot less effort, uh, and then also - how? question mark?? [laughs] so-
R: well, not to flex my expertise, but I will say that the last time something really big had to get
moved, we used… twilight realm portals~ [laughs] B: ohhh, yeah
R: and it was a whole ass bridge! So, you know! B: kind of a whole deal.
R: Hmm! [hums x-files theme] B: Quite possibly! I mean, the- [laughs]
R: [laughs] B: there are - there are legends
within the the gerudo, um, desert, uh - people talking about these-
these statues that- that have their own sort of mystique to them, so
it's - it's a known quantity to the the people of the gerudo desert. Uh, you-
link is tasked to go find it because it's like- R: Right.
B: "yeah, we- we think there's this eighth statue out somewhere in the highlands but no-one's
actually seen it"- and of course you can find it- R: of course-
B: because no one is as insane a climber as link R: [laughs]
B: uh, or insane enough to be a climber like link. But it's just- it's
a cool thing! It's like, yeah, there's a statue in the mountains, the sword is missing, it's stuck
in the top of the mountain somewhere. When did this happen? Old enough that no one knows how or
exactly when, but recent enough that people still remember it. So that's just- that's just cool!
R: I'm not saying the statue came alive and stabbed that mountain-
B: [laughs] R: - but I'm not not saying it didn't do that.
B: statue's cursed, get it out. can we break it? nope, nope, get it out.
R: [laughs] B: move it.
R: scooch it. lure it away!! [laughs] B: yeah, exactly. Um, further, uh, we- we can jump
back to 10,000 years before the events of breath of the wild because the great calamity that we
experience from the hundred years ago time skip is actually the SECOND great calamity.
R: Mm hm. B: the first one was ten thousand years
beforehand, and this is the legend that, uh, that impa, uh, will tell link about as he
is starting to- to slowly piece together his- his poor amnesiac memories.
R: Yeah. B: and, it, you know… ten thousand years is a long
time! But this is still [after] all of the other zelda games so there's all of this lore where
the- the sheikah, the ancient sheikah created the guardians - uh, those little spidery boys,
uh - and the divine beasts to fight the great calamity ganon. After the victory hylians are like
"wow cool we beat ganon… now there are these giant death machines, they're scary, get rid of them"-
R: Mm hm. B- so after the first calamity they bury all of
the divine beasts, they bury all the guardians, and then when we get to the second
calamity 10 thousand years later, king rhoam is like "augh sh*t"
R: [laughs] uh huh! B: uh, zelda's like "hey dad can we please
excavate the divine beasts otherwise I think we're gonna be really screwed-"
R: "no! goddess magic! get back to your training!!" [laughs]
B: [laughs] so then they go through all the effort to excavate all that stuff, so the- the guardians
are- are ancient, ancient tech. Still comes after all the other games! [laughs]
R: [laughs] B: so, uh, lots of- lots of weird old
stuff! Might be some- some breath of the wild two stuff in here, but I'm not
gonna say too much to- to date this video. R: [laughs]
B: uh, we'll see. Next, uh, is a really cool detail -
R: Oh! B:- in hebra peak a mountain range in the- the
very far northwest of the map that has a perfect circle carved… into it… somehow…??
R: Mm. B: [laughs] it's not, uh, it's not anything
man-made and it doesn't look like it would be a meteor. Um, popular theories are that the
work of tearing a perfectly cylindrical hole through the side of a mountain that
creates a sort of glassy almost obsidian texture on it…
R: ho ho ho! B: …from possibly having melted the rock is
likely a result of an energy beam from the divine beasts. So at the end of breath of the wild, if
you've completed all four divine beasts quests, they- they train their lasers on hyrule castle and
they blow some mondo ginormous blue and white and black energy beams at the castle.
R: Mm. B: and it seems likely, given what we know about
divine beasts and how insanely powerful they are, that the wound through the center of hebra
peak was a scar from the first battle against the great calamity-
R: Oh, I love that! B: where a beam seems to have
missed and just… torn a hole right the f*ck through hebra peak! [laughs]
R: maybe that's why they buried the divine beasts! [laughs]
B: that is quite possibly why they buried them! [laughs]
R: you know, I- I gotta say, I- I've always gotten some serious ghibli vibes from
breath of the wild. And it's quite intentional, like, I mean, the art style, the visuals, you
know… the- the character designs even - it all very much kind of resembles a lot of the classic
studio ghibli movies. And I think the theming of "there was an ancient war with incredibly powerful
weapons and now we're trying to kind of move on and be all pastoral and cool but…
B: [laughs] R: "…you know, there's big craters that you
can see from orbit-" and sh*t like that - um - B: yeah!
R: there's a lot of that vibe, and I, uh, this is the first of these where I was
like, "oh, okay, so like… the naüsicaa parallels, the- the castle in the sky parallels,
they're just THERE. All right-" B: oh, yeah. Absolutely.
R: "sick!" I knew I liked this game for a reason. Hell yeah.
B: yeah, so the divine beasts are- are conveyed to be powerful within the lore of
the game and being able to- to carve an entire empty cylinder through a mountain with an
errant blast is… pretty yikes! [laughs] R: and the fact that, like, that's not even
noteworthy enough that it's, like, survived as legends or whatever! Like nobody in the area is
like "oh yeah that's when Vah Ruta shot a laser at us!" you know, it's not noteworthy-
B: yeah! R: -because this world has so much
happening in it! And I feel like… sometimes when you're world building it's tempting
to fill the world with information, but it can be more telling what the world has forgotten. You
know, what- what wasn't actually noteworthy or what wasn't able to survive as long as it did.
Like, that can really make the world feel bigger and more mysterious. Because if you can forget
that a laser carved through your mountain, like… B: [laughs]
R: how much other stuff do you deal with on an average weekend, you know?!
B: yeah, yeah… uh, hyrule has been through a lot! R: yeah! [laughs]
B: …as we will continue to see! R: and it's always full of blonde children for
some reason! [laughs] always at the center of it! B: exactly! [laughs] uh, and the sheikah knew
that there would always be blonde children at the center of it-
R: heh heh B: so after they- they buried the divine beasts
and the guardians, the sheikah thought ahead and, realizing that they always have to make this
poor kid prove himself, they made 120 shrines, uh, and hid them throughout hyrule - or not
"hid" but- but placed them throughout hyrule- R: right.
B: - such that when the great calamity would return, they would
be there to… kind of, uh, train the hero, but mostly test the hero? [laughs] to make sure
that he was good enough to really be the hero? uh, sometimes putting the hero in more danger than some of the- the minions of the calamity??
R: hey, if you get a dud link then you'll get a new one in a generation or two anyway… [laughs]
B: [laughs] exactly! yeah, um, so, uh, the shrines are some- some first calamity tech. Lots of
stuff from the- from the golden age of the- the technologically advanced ancient sheikah.
But aside from the sheikah there's another civilization called the zonai who are a very old
long dead civilization from thousands of years before breath of the wild, but they're not so old
that they've shown up in any of the other games. R: Ahh.
B: uh, they're spread all over hyrule, they're a very clear, like, aztec-maya parallel…
R: right- B: -insert, uh, civilization. Nobody in the game
itself nor in the irl zelda community understands a goddamn thing about them!
R: [laughs] B: there's maybe a ganondorf connection
but it's very unclear?? All we know is that it is OLD. [laughs]
R: Gorgeous. All right, so what's the general vibe with these boys?
B: There- so there are a lot of ruins spread across the map, uh… the picture that, uh, I- I
have here on the left of our little slideshow is from the faron region, um, a very kind of
jungly like- very, like, strong maya vibes part of the map, where there's a lot of, um, decrepit
buildings, um columns knocked over, statues of- statues of owls, statues of boars and statues of
dragons, which is possibly a triforce connection… R: oooh!
B: - with wisdom, courage, and power. Uh, yeah, um-
R: Ganon is typically a pig, so the boar thing does… kinda fit.
B: Yeah, yeayeayeah. R: [vague sounds]
B: there's some stuff there, yeah- R: yeah, and owls! There are owls in the old games
too, and they're usually, like, helping you out, like, with advice and sh*t-
B: Yeah. R: so- yeah, all right, yeah. We've got
wisdom, power, and I guess that means link gets to be the dragon? F*ckin' sweet.
B: the- dragons are… dragons are a staple, uh, in the zelda games, uh, they- they've
appeared in- in many different forms. R: Yeah, that's fair, that's fair.
B: but there are three of them that show up in breath of the wild - there is the- the dragon
farosh, uh, the dragon dinraal, and the dragon, um, naydra, who are elemental, uh, of the
three different components of the triforce. R: right
B: one of them's green, one of them's blue, one of them's red…
R: Ah, yes. Yes. B: what more do you need? [laughs]
R: [laughs] Classic! B: uh, and they just kind of exist, so,
um, so the dragon farosh spends a lot of time in the- the faron region, uh
- names are, of course, similar- R: yup
B: hanging out by the- by the zonai ruins. Um, there are also, in much better shape,
three labyrinths spread across hyrule- R: Hoah??
B: that just… exist in the far distant corners. There's one down by, uh, gerudo,
there's one in the hebra region, and there's one, uh, up northwest, uh, off the coast of akkala. Um,
just gigantic-ass, like, minotaur-type labyrinths- R: Hell yeah.
B: - that are built with these styles of architecture that have a lot of these
same design motifs with these- these, uh, owl faces, pig faces, dragon faces, uh, these swirly
designs, all the same kind of patterning and architectural texturing, um, to make it clear
that this is some zonai stuff, so there's, like, some maybe weird connection of the zonai and the
sheikah having worked together, because there are sheikah shrines in these zonai labyrinths?
R: Oooh! B: It's weird! And no one understands it, and
that's one of the coolest things is that they- they created a- a pure mystery to put in
the game! So like, the first calamity, like, all that's like pretty solidly, like, we know
enough to understand what's going on with the lore and the guardians and stuff… but the zonai are
just a complete wild card and that's really cool!! R: [laughs]
B: it makes the 10,000 year old stuff that we know about still feel old because
it's juxtaposed with this 10,000 year old stuff that we don't have a clue about!
R: yeah! And it makes the world feel bigger because this gives us something grounded in the
worldbuilding that has basically nothing to do with our heroes and the main arc of the story!
Like, they might have a connection with it, but if so they're not like… you know, there's
none- none of the sheikah people we talk to know anything about them or mention them at
all, you know? It's like, they've got this whole civilization that clearly rose and fell and did
its own thing and has barely anything to do with what we know about the main plot. Like, even if it
does end up getting connected to it, it's like, it still feels huge and unrelated. And that's good!
B: Yeah, that's really cool. R: That makes the world feel
bigger than just the main plot, and that's really important for worldbuilding!
B: it's- it's really well done. There's also one place i forgot to mention. There is a- an area
called the typhlo ruins, uh, in the north, uh, just uh north of the- the great, uh, korok forest,
that is an area of zonai ruins that is shrouded in a magical darkness that cannot be broken-
R: Whaaaat? [laughs] B: so all you can do is take, like, a torch
in there! You cannot see anything, you have to light all the little torches yourself to find
your way, it is… ruins shrouded in an impassable unbreakable magical cloud of darkness.
R: oh, some kind of… B: how??
R: …twilight realm, you could say? [laughs] B: question mark??
R: [hums X-Files theme again] B: confused lovecraft noises aaaaah??
R: [laughs] aw, man B: mysterious colors unlike anything ever seen
except the mysterious color is black because it's- it's ancient shadows
R: yeah, unlike anything seen because you can't see it oooooooh
B: imagine a place that is so old the sun has not seen it in ten thousand years.
R: yeah. B: horrifying! let's move on
R: sun is like "ohh f*ck THAT. NOOOO"
B: yeah! [laughs] on the more, um, biological side of things, uh, not just
architecture all day long from- from good old blue, uh - there are also, uh, uh, we should
not forget the three giant leviathans, uh, whose skeletons are spread throughout the region!
R: [laughs] B: um, across hyrule in the gerudo desert
in the hebra mountains and in the eld- uh, elden mountains lie the skeletons of
three gigantic leviathan creatures. There are some- some sheikah shrines inside
them for scale. They are terrifyingly large. R: Yeesh.
B: Um, two of them are recognizable from older games, namely levias
from skyward sword who's in the elden region, and the wind fish from link's awakening-
R: aw :( B: - which is in the gerudo desert, um, but the
third is a complete mystery. Uh, even concept art that shows a little more clearly, it's- it's
not recognizable to any of the cetaceous deities that we've seen in zelda before. Uh, it is a-
a pure mystery theorized to be for the sake of the player being able to put themselves in the
utter confusion of what the rest of the world is, like- it's- it's cool that they do it in such
a way that they give you two, you know, anchor points, and one where you are just as clueless as
the rest of the people in the game. It's a really efficient way to go about creating that feeling of
"whaaaat?" so - it's unclear how long they've been dead, clearly a very long time! [laughs]
R: Yup. Yup. B: this is the kind of thing that - it could
have been in that last ten thousand years or they could have died, like, way in the middle
of the timeline, like, the wind fish, like, bit it in the middle of, uh, like, you
know, uh, twilight princess or something- R: Aww! [laughs]
B: the leviathans are cool! R: Yeah!
B: first time i came upon one, uh, freaked me out because I - I did not know what I was looking at.
R: oh yeah, I mean, there's - I think that's kind of the idea, you know, you run into a giant
skeleton, part of you is just like "oh, I don't like thinking about this."
B: yeah, and there are a lot of skeletons, like, you know, giant rib cages or
skulls, uh, scattered throughout the map, but these are - as far as I'm aware - the
only ones that are complete and identifiable, which makes it…… weirder, somehow! [laughs]
R: yeah, fully articulated skeletons are rare, but… you know, we're not gonna - we're not
gonna paleontology-splain this video game- B: [laughs]
R: -you know! [laughs] B: exactly. Um, and then when we consider
additional zelda lore, uh, breath of the wild's hyrule is ELDRITCH AS HELL.
R: yeeees >:] B: it is kind of insane! When we get past
the, like, yeah, the- the 10,000 years ago to the first calamity? That's like baby mode, uh
[laughs] compared to some of the things we're about to look at now.
R: Mm hm. B: It's- it's pretty insane. So, first
off, some- some easy one-two parallels. Uh, the arbiter's grounds from twilight princess,
where ganondorf was, uh- uh- attempted execution, and it did not work-
R: Ah, yes. B: uh, those are ruins in the gerudo desert!
They're barely poking up above the sands, um, but it's implied they've been buried ages
and ages and ages ago. Uh, the game barely acknowledges them - but they're there!
R: welp, time to start excavating! B: You can tell it's the same
kind of architecture, you- it says on the map, "arbiter's grounds"-
R: oh wow! wow. they're not even- B: yeah.
R: wow. I love it. B: yeah, no no no, no - they - [laughs]
shigeru miyamoto did not come to play! R: no, of course not! why would- why
would you leave people guessing when you could give them an "aha!" moment instead?
B: yeah, so there are some things that are, like, pretty obviously clear that they- that they
go, like yeah, here you go! Um, there's also, of course, very obviously, uh, the ocarina of time
gang is all here - the temple of time shows up right - as soon as you walk out of the shrine of
resurrection it's right there, it's clearly busted up but it's the temple of time! Um, there's
also castle town which, if you do some some cartography, castle town actually kind of
does map onto the great plateau, which is- R: ooh!
B: -pretty neat, and a rarity among the- the parallels we're going
to see here. There is also lon-lon ranch, which is the- the ranch where you get Epona from- from
ocarina of time, uh, that is burnt to sh*t, uh- R: aw :c
B: - but does exist, uh, in this game world, which is very cool! There's also, uh, you can literally
purchase lon-lon milk from hateno village. R: ha!
B: Whether or not it's the same product, uh, the lon-lon brand clearly had some
staying power over the millennia! [laughs] R: sometime in the last 10,000 years they
established the lon-lon dairy empire - [laughs] B: [laughs] exactly!
R: - its rise and fall almost more meteoric than demise himself.
B: yeah [laughs] from, uh, food conglomerate nestlon-lon
R: [laughs] they got in some trouble when they started selling divine beast
vah nabooris's [*vah ruta's] water to impoverished communities- B: [laughs]
R: but, uh, they pulled back and rebranded and now they're just a humble small town farm! [laughs]
B: yeah! So the the ocarina of time ones are fun because they're the most obvious but, you
know, like the arbiter's grounds - there's kind of not a lot there. Um, it is cool
because it is very clear and you can, like, see, "oh my god this is the temple of time and
this is that and that's that" but it- you know, that's kind of where it starts and ends. Um, so
it's great to establish the chronology, but these are very obvious - they don't really establish
that sense of- of mystery quite as much. Which is okay! It's good to have a mix of it, and that's…
you know, you can't have everything make no sense, otherwise you have dark souls which is…
R: [laughs] B: - famously, uh, impregnable lore, but it's-
it's cool, it's- it's a good thing that will, uh, you know, have players recognize that "oh,
like, this is still the same world and like, oh these things are still here after all this
time" which is cool, it's good to have those, like, anchor points in there.
R: yeah! B: one other thing from ocarina of time is, uh,
zelda's lullaby, which has appeared in other games too - but it is still a symbol of the royal
family, to the point where in the sanctum throne room area of hyrule castle…
R: ohhh? B: - the triforce emblem above the throne is
ringed with these three little musical measures that have the notes for zelda's lullaby, like,
carved and- and, you know, emblazoned in there. R: Awh!
B: Some of the notes are slightly in the wrong place-
R: [vague noises] B: - it could have been an art mistake, could
have been the melody getting a little bit, uh, a little bit shmooshed, uh, after millennia upon
millennia, but it is super cool that after all this time, the, you know, the song, the- the
theme tune of the hylian royal family is still zelda's lullaby.
R: actually- B: that's pretty cool.
R: - you know what I really like? What I like about that is that… it kind of implies
that they've forgotten that it's sheet music. But like, if you make that the symbol of the royal
family around the triforce and then, you know, you don't think to pass down that "by the way
this is sheet music and if some blonde kid comes in here with like a musical instrument
point him at it and he'll figure it out" - B: [laughs]
R: like, you know, if you're drawing a symbol and you don't know what the symbol means,
then it's very easy to kind of just… maybe, like, put the dots in the wrong place. It's like, uh,
when people were, like, forging egyptian artifacts before they knew what hieroglyphs meant.
B: oh! [laughs] Yeah. R: Like it would just be random little pictograms
and, like, symbols and squiggles and people were like "oh it looks very legitimate!" and
then later it's like "wait a f*ckin' second, that's the entirely wrong kind of bird
and it's facing the wrong way!" you know? B: yeah.
R: um - so I think it makes sense that it would have been, like, all
right, the dots kind of go like this and there's kind of this pattern, but like, it doesn't really
matter which of these rings it goes on, right? And then it's like "oh but it does actually!"
B: yeah - yeah it makes sense how it could be corrupted over time. One possible counterpoint,
um, although it is not strictly speaking canon, is in hyrule warriors age of calamity - which itself
is not a canon game but a lot of people take the- the lore around it as canon, and the world
building, even if the events are not canon - um, terrako, the cute little egg guardian guy -
R: aw! B: it plays the zelda's lullaby song.
Um, so it is- it is implied in that game, not strictly canon, that it is still
used as a lullaby, which is really cool - R: Oh, yeah, I mean-
B: - so either- either option is, uh, is an interesting interpretation.
R: I'd say they're not even mutually exclusive! The song can have survived easily, but they might not necessarily recognize
that this symbol of the royal family IS - B: ohhhh- yeah they might not have- yeah
R: exactly, yeah. Like, they might have started as the same thing-
B: they might not have connected the sheet music to the…
R: right, right, yeah. It's like "oh we've got the triforce surrounded by this pretty pattern of,
like, lines and dots, you know? okay, yeah, cool, makes sense, you kind of put a radiant symbol
behind a throne, it looks really good, you know, very standard stuff" but then, you know, a
couple generations down the line you forget that the reason why those lines and dots
are where they are is because it's a coded representation of your royal theme music. Um-
B: yeah, it's- it's a very cool example of- of continuity, uh, in display, because we see stuff
of like, you know, here's a thing that has been dead for a long time and that helps us date what's
going on, here's something that's been buried for 10,000 years - but this is really cool because
it shows that there are still some, you know, immutable aspects of- of the- the lore in this
world that will somehow find a way to continue going on.
R: yeah. B: Or we can be silly and imagine that
every time hylia reincarnates as zelda, like, age of like, 13, 14, 15, she'll
just be like [whistle's Zelda's Lullaby] R: [laughs]
B: just like, idly, and the king is like
"write that down, write that down!" R: yeah! [laughs]
B: she just keeps randomly coming up with the song every single time she's reincarnated.
R: she gets born and she's just like "I have the weirdest song stuck in my
head! What the hell is that?" B: [laughs] exactly!
R: oh man. Shoutout to twilight princess's musical minigame - I like that all
the zelda games have, like, some kind of musical minigame even if it's not actually important
to the plot, and in twilight princess they have to account for the fact that for about 50% of
the game you don't have opposable thumbs, so - B: [laughs]
R: -you just have to wolf howl along with the melody, which is super cute.
B: Yeah. Yeah. R: Link puts up with so much
crap in that game, honestly. The man has the patience of a monk. Okay.
B: Yeah. [laughs] And now we- we start to get proper f*cking ancient here!
R: YES. B: So, um, jumping back to, uh, to way earlier
than- than twilight princess, than ocarina of time and all of that - the lanayru promenade in the
southeastern part of the map leading up to mount lanayru has the same architecture as the temples
in skyward sword, the very first zelda game way at the very beginning of the- the timeline.
R: Yes! B: it's got the same cubic stone work, it has
loftwing patterns, the- this- this picture of, uh, lanayru promenade, you can see this- this
loftwing shape. One of them has their face kind of broken off, but it's a picture of a loftwing.
…Those went extinct a very long time ago [laughs] R: aw :c
B: uh, so clearly it is - it is a stylistic continuity, um, rather than, like,
they just decided to keep sculpting loftwings. Um, that's another thing of, like, "what does this
symbol mean? ah, Iunno, put it on the - put it on the promenade!"
R: Mm. B: um, and there are also designs, uh,
around, um, lanayru promenade that have a- a stone, um, inscription, uh, pattern of
the goddess's harp which is a big plot device- R: Ah. Love it.
B: - so, um, really cool stuff that there's this monumental
basically parade way architecture leading from- from hyrule field over to, uh, mount lanayru,
which is the- the site of one of the- the goddess, uh, springs, and they- they adorned it with all
this cool stuff, so it's implied to have probably been made after skyward sword-
R: Ah, okay. B: - but not very far after skyward sword.
It's still kind of in the same realm of time, but it's cool!
R: yeah! B: it's really cool.
R: I was gonna say, so like, as I recall in skyward sword, like, obviously people remember the
flying islands gimmick, but there really aren't actually that many flying islands. Like, that map
is actually tiny, you spend most of your time on the ground. So like, this is the architecture
of the temples that were already on the ground, so it's not like this would have been some big
flying temple complex that fell and became part of the landscape, as cool as that would be, this
is probably just, like, either built shortly after it, or one of the temples from… the original… game
that was already on the ground and it just kind of has eroded a little bit? Like, that's the vibe?
B: uh… uh, holster that thought, actually! [laughs]
R: oh?? okay, all right! I'll put it back in the chamber, let's do this! [laughs]
B: uh, so next as- as we go up to, um, to the- uh- to mount lanayru, we'll
encounter one of the- the sacred springs in- in breath of the wild, there are
springs to wisdom, uh, courage and power… R: hohoho
B: and these are, you know, point for point the exact same as the skyview temple spring
and the earth temple spring in skyward sword. It's a colonnaded walkway with a small staircase
leading up to a little area where there is a small little lake leading up to a statue of the
goddess that you pray at for game reasons. R: yes~ perfect
B: one to one! The- the springs, uh, in breath of the wild are the springs in skyward
sword. They're- they're just still there from- from the surface. That's cool!
R: I love it. B: That's super cool. It's got the same
architecture, same kind of like loftwing designs and patterns and stuff like that, and
it's- it's just neat! It's just really neat. So that stuff was there before the
events of of skyward sword, so, uh, lanayru promenade came a little after, springs
came a little before. So these things are OLD. R: this is… ADVANCED ancient
B: finally, uh, or almost finally, we get to the forgotten temple northwest of
the map in tanagar canyon where, in the game, link receives the cap and tunic and trousers
of the wild upon completing all 120 shrines, earning his spot as the hero of the wild-
R: yeah! B: - where he really should
have gone to beat ganon by now. R: [laughs]
B: poor zelda has been holding him out, uh, for… years! A century, at that.
R: "Link, I don't have that much time, but like… you know, if you need to, like, doll
yourself up a little bit… work out a little, you know… keep it- I've been at this for
like a hundred years, I can probably manage a couple more weeks, you know, just have fun~"
B: "link that hat is really fly but I kind of really need your help right now~"
R: [laughs] B: yeah, so in- in the game lore, uh, it's
explained elsewhere, uh, outside of the game in, like, companion books, uh, creating a champion,
art books and stuff like that - that the forgotten temple was used, um, in- in centuries
past to honor the legacy of the goddess's chosen hero, so hylians would journey over
to the temple to pay their respects to the heroes who have saved hyrule
from ganon again and again and again, and it just exists as an in-universe pilgrimage
site. Which is really cool that there's, like, this kind of thing that, like, people have caught
on to the idea that this is kind of a recurring process and so they- they- they have a space where
they go to- to, you know, pay their respects, to try to look out for any kids who- who look
about the right shape, uh, height and build and- and keep records of- of all this- this
cool stuff with- with heroes of- of the past, so that's really neat, uh, just- just in itself.
R: I'm sorry, my- my brain just latched onto the echolalia of you saying "ganon again and again"
because it's like, oh my god, "ganon" is just in the phrase "again and again and again"! [laughs]
B: [laughs] R: it was meant to be! [laughs]
B: yeah, no, exactly. R: wow, okay.
B: um, so… this is the sealed temple from skyward sword.
R: Oh! Well then! Well would you look at that!! [laughs]
B: yeah, so it's described in the lore as housing the oldest statue of the goddess, uh, and
the first giant statue of hylia that we encounter appears in skyward sword up on skyloft-
R: ohhhhhh? B: and later in the game, uh, as, uh, events,
uh, unfold, link sends the temple in the sky, uh, with the- the statue of the goddess hylia,
crashing down to the surface to imprison the demon king demise.
R: nice work, link. B: nice work link, yeah, uh, he basically - he
sends the- the- this giant temple crashing down to the surface, this- the statue of hylia was- was
up in the clouds on skyloft and then because of- of link doing plot things it came down to earth.
R: Right. B: So this is where that statue ends
up. It's the oldest statue of hylia… and here it is in the forgotten temple.
R: oh I love it. This feels like- B: Super cool.
R: - like we're playing zelda in the shadow of the colossus universe! [laughs]
B: yeah! yeah, no, it really does! R: yeah!
B: you get a very clear sense of time with this building because it has clearly been
renovated over the years to, uh, to expand it, to fix broken sections of the wall - there are parts
where some- some parts of the wall are caved in, uh, and- and plastered over with smaller bricks
over time, so it was clearly used and reused again and again. It's unclear if people still remember
that this was, uh, the sealed, uh, temple from way back when, um, but, uh, it is, uh, and it's
super cool. It's the same core architecture, it's obviously been expanded and changed but it's
the same fundamental setup. This building is one of the oldest things in the entire series. By
the time skyward sword… happens this building was already thousands of years old [laughs]
R: gorgeous. B: - and it was- it was built when hylia was
still, you know, incarnate as the goddess hylia on- on earth, before she, you know, she gave up
her immortal form to reincarnate as zelda. So this place is crazy old. It's where link
first, uh, picked up the master sword, uh, forged it into its final form, um, it's- it's
where link stepped into the ancient past to go, uh, to go fight demise, um, for the final time to
seal him away, because he has to beat him- he has to beat him twice - again, plot things.
R: yeah, yeah- skyward sword stuff. B: one of the other really cool things
is, uh, there is a plot point in the game where link has to go plant the tree of
life in the ancient past to help the dragon lanayru because the dragon is sick. In the
present of skyward sword the dragon's dead. R: Ooh.
B: So link goes into the ancient past, takes the seed for the
tree of life, plants it in the sealed temple, comes back to the present, gets the fruit from the
tree of life after it spent millennia growing to full maturity, takes it back into the ancient
past, gives it to the dragon and heals him up. And you can see in the forgotten temple and breath
of the wild, if you look on the left side of the temple, that tree is still there.
R: oh man! B: it's insane! It's in the exact same spot where
it should be, it looks like it was kind of, like, covered over, but the tree, like,
punched through the wall to get out. R: yes! good!
B: insanity. absolute insanity. still there in the exact same spot.
R: there's more time traveling I remember in skyward sword, but-
B: there's a lot of- there's a lot of time travel. So the gate of time is is actually
here, uh, in the- [laughs] in the sealed temple. R: oh!
B: it's not, like, here-here right now, um, it assembles with, like, magic and stuff.
R: of course, yeah. B: it was hylia's temple before it was the
sealed temple, it was so old that it is as old as the goddess herself… holy sh*t. [laughs]
R: I like the idea that, like, as they're building more of this temple complex around
it - but they've kind of forgotten that it was sealed on top of demise or whatever, they're like
"yeah there's some, like, evil in the basement, we're not really sure where it's coming from…"
B: so this this place is- is- is truly insanely old. It's- it's the oldest building, uh, as far
as where we are in the entire zelda history. It was around when the goddess hylia
walked the lands. This place is crazy old. R: yes… old as balls [laughs]
B: old as balls indeed. There is one thing, however, that- that might
be ever so slightly older than even this… R: ooh?
B: …and that is the breach of demise… R: hohoho!
B: …which is the area so old it is only implied, uh, in skyward sword's
prologue as the place where the demon king demise first came to terrorize the world, uh, of hyrule
before it was really even hyrule. He was said to have- have come out from- from, you know, this
chasm in the earth, spilling out with all of his minions to come do all this- this evil stuff, and
there is a place in the- the world of- of breath of the wild's hyrule called the breach of demise
that really looks like [laughs] a place that got- that got forcibly pushed upwards and- and spread
out. There- there's this chasm area where this whole jagged array of rocks that- that look
like two hands nestling with each other- R: ooh~
B: they kind of lace in, these big jagged peaks that got forced open.
It's not necessarily a hundred percent the actual breach of actual demise, but with a place
called THAT that looks like THIS it's hard to imagine what else it could possibly be instead
of the place where demise did in fact breach. R: yeah, I think there are- there are two
possibilities for that. Either it is not literally the place where demise breached, but that myth is
so ingrained in the collective consciousness that they see this big rift and they call it like "ah
yes this is where our satan analog poked his head out, that makes sense" - or it's literally
where that happened. [laughs] Either way- B: exactly, yeah, there are - you know
- some parallels to various places in, uh, in world mythology where it's like "ah
yes this… this story of whatever the hell, it happened over there on that hill, trust me,"
yeah, okay, you know, they invent that stuff after the fact, but still, uh, clearly it was
chosen for a reason. So it's wild to think that the location of the inciting incident in the
entire legend of zelda series is still here. R: oh I love it. I love it so much.
B: it's absolutely crazy. R: god, I'm hyped for breath of the wild 2.
B: and that is- that is all, uh, all I have, uh to say that, uh… this hyrule is- is so
old it is actually quite genuinely scary, because the game seamlessly blends the history
of the immediate past with the history of the terrifyingly much more distant past in a way that
allows the user to genuinely conceive of 10,000 years ago as recent compared to the history that
goes back tens of thousands of years ago. [laughs] R: yeah, and for context,
like, real world history… we're getting into fully, like, we- we basically
don't know anything concrete aside from like "oh we reconstructed this and- and, you know, we have
scraps of, like, this, and we found a cave that people lived in around then-" it's like- like- we
didn't domesticate dogs until 15,000 years ago, like that- that's how old it is.
B: yeah, yeah, like, we cap out at, like- like ten thousand, like, max. But like,
really, it's hard to get much further than, like, three. [laughs] maybe four.
R: yeah- yeah, ten thousand is like, oh yeah, stone age you know, we think we domesticated
the goat around then- yeah- something like that - and then 3000 it's like, okay, yeah,
we- we kind of know what's up then. KINDA. B: yeah.
R: even then it's like, we don't know where this civilization was! We think they
existed because a lot of their neighbors talked about them, but like, where? who the f*ck knows??
B: yeah, and it's- it's cool the game does such a good job of creating an internally consistent
timeline of events so the player can understand, you know, what happened when, what
came before what, and, you know, sure, the- the sheikah shrines are older than the game
by about 10,000 years, but they're not as old as the temple of time, which is not as old as the
forgotten temple, so even with, you know, strata upon strata upon strata of game history, it's
still distinct and it doesn't just settle into a mush of the ancient past because it's able
to draw on all of that stuff from older games and create an intelligible world lore that is
expressed through the game. And that's really cool, because not a lot of games can do that!
R: there's something very impressive about a game franchise like zelda of all things… taking
a concept that is ultimately designed to be the same game over and over again and creating
a world for it that feels so much bigger than just this same battle happening over and over
again, while also still being shaped so strongly by that battle. Like, I mean, I've seen a few
people be like, "hey, I wonder what link and zelda were up to 10,000 years ago when they had their
inevitable incarnations during the first great calamity, that would be kind of cool to
explore" - like it- it sure would be, but like, the fact that we don't need to know
what they were up to - we can just be like "yeah giant robots happened! smaller giant robots
happened! uh - somebody shot a laser through a mountain! um - you know, just little things!"
B: you can imagine, like, the ancient sheikah are like "okay guys, I know the legends say that this
one twink kid and his girlfriend the princess are gonna save hyrule, but do we really wanna trust
just them? We can build robot tanks for this!" R: it's like "look we can do that, we can wait
for the, uh, for for the amazing blonde duo all we want, but I'm just saying, we could also build
a giant laser robot shaped like an elephant. I'm just saying! We could try my way too, you know?"
B: and then afterwards it's like "okay, the the king of hyrule cut our funding-"
R: [laughs] B: "-we gotta bury the giant lizard robot tanks,
let's- let's just make a f*ckin' jungle gym for the kid instead-" [laughs]
R: "he said something about 'upstaging his princess' so, you know." [laughs]
B: yeah. So it's- it is really cool. And obviously zelda has- has been, uh, a franchise, uh,
that from its- its beginning in- in 1986? R: something.
B: you know, it's- it's been about exploration, it's been about discovery [TM]
R: [laughs] B: uh, and it's- it's telling that, you know,
breath of the wild's hyrule has been praised by someone or other basically every day
since the game first came out in 2017. R: Yup.
B: It is quite impressive that we are still talking about it because that is a lot of
time in, like, video game time, where it's always, you know, what's the- what's the hottest thing,
what have you done recently? And, you know, breath of the wild is not the oldest game, that's for
sure, um - but the fact that we are still having such involved conversations about how this game
did what it did so well - it's really impressive! R: well, I think one thing that we can kind
of key in on, that we've essentially been sort of orbiting for this whole conversation is
that, uh, previous zelda games were very linear storytelling-wise. Uh, and part of that was
definitely limitations of the medium. Like… B: yeah.
R: you know, older consoles, like - moore's law is a real thing, you know, computers
get way better every, like, 18 months, and in a lot of games it's like, you have an invisible
wall because you cannot render the world past this point. You know, I'll go to bat for twilight
princess, but that game is a straight line. B: [laughs]
R: - and there are like three locations you can go to at any given time, and one
of them is just a town full of people who yell at you for being a wolf. And it's like, you kind of
have this- this ludonarrative dissonance between "this is a game where the entire point is
to give you that feeling of exploration… but we have to put you on this railroad track,
basically, so like… you can look out the windows and see all that beautiful stuff out there, but
ultimately you have to do these things in this order," you know? You can't go to this temple
until you get this item that lets you get there, you can't do this stuff until you do that - and I
think that what breath of the wild did that is why everyone is still talking about it and why it's
so different from the previous zelda games is that it took the vibe of the previous zelda games
and then it made it open world. I mean, that was the whole selling point, but zelda was made
to be open world, you know? Like, every previous- B: The original was!
R: it was! Yeah, but at the same time it's like… it's 2d, it's got like four colors on the
screen, at any given time you're - you're like a- a little five pixel man running around and maybe
your hair is pink and I'm not 100% sure on that! And it's like, it had the exploration vibe, but
as things got more complicated they were really pushing the limits of what they could physically
technologically do, and that means you get games that are absolutely gorgeous by the standards of
the time, but like… they can render one room at a time, basically. Maybe two.
B: Yeah, no, exactly. R: And then with breath of
the wild they were like "okay, we've got the equivalent of a super computer
in every console, we can afford to do this-" B: "Let's go!"
R: "we're gonna do it!" yeah, yeah - so they do a lot of very -
B: there was a lot of - a lot of hullabaloo in the the interviewing process and in the press for
the game where, uh, where Eiji Aonuma and friends, uh, developers were basically saying that "we- we
really went back to the start for this, you know, what made the first zelda game so good? okay,
let's do that" and it's cool that they not only basically threw off all their previous
design choices and said "let's go back to the very beginning and build everything around
that core feeling of discovery" - you know, shigeru miyamoto loved to go, you know,
running around in his neighborhood, climbing trees and and going in caves around,
uh, his home- his home neighborhood in tokyo. R: Right.
B: Put that feeling in a kingdom [laughs] and there you go!
R: [laughs] B: but- but at the same time they're also
making such informed and specific and precise use of all of the lore and the games that have
come before in order to craft such an intricate and interesting story out of these little - a
scrap here, a piece there, tying it together in ways that, if this was a stand-alone story that
- just in a vacuum - sure you'd get, you know, the- the first calamity, second calamity,
and you get a sense of history from that, but the fact that the zelda, you know, series is able
to pull on so much world's lore and assemble that into one space and have this strata of- of- of
game history is really really cool! And it is a unique asset of- of the zelda series that a
lot of other episodic yearly release games, um, try to build on but don't come anywhere close to
accomplishing because they try to exposition dump everything and hammer you over the head with
how cool it is, uh, whereas zelda, you know, breath of the wild, they- they give you almost no
exposition, they give you just the barest minimum tools to understand the world and then sets you
loose to go be a hylian archaeologist. [laughs] R: Uh huh.
B: It shows you the temple of time as soon as you get out of
the world, so it says "hey, look for stuff!" R: yup!
B: "you'll find it!" and then as you go outside the great plateau you'll see more things
and you'll realize like "oh wait, this is that, that's that," but they show you right at the
beginning like "hey, this- this is a new thing, sure, we're, you know, a million years in the
future and the world's been destroyed, but like… the stuff you know as a player is
still there, that world is still there" and that's cool! That's really cool design.
R: I think they- they did a couple things that I think are really good. One, they- they sort of
did a thing that I know that, uh, dark souls does, where if there's a big thing off in the
distance in the sky box… you can go there. And probably fight, like, you know, something the
size of a semi-truck there, but like, you know, you see something cool and it's really there
and you can go there, and breath of the wild does the same thing. And that's the other thing -
breath of the wild strikes a really good balance in making the world feel very big and explorable
and making you feel like you have the tools to explore it. Like, they do a couple standard
zelda things where it's like "if you want to go to the underground place- er, the underwater place
you maybe need a special suit so you can swim, if you want to go to the really hot place you
maybe need a special suit so you don't die" like that's okay, that's fine. That's fine. Most of the
other places you can get to by climbing and like… falling down cliffs a couple times.
B: Yup. R: And a lot of games with survival mechanics,
it's kind of like the game is punishing you for not being able to immediately find food, so I like
that it's like… you can cook! You don't HAVE to cook, but it's helpful!
B: Yeah. R: So it's like- and- and you can climb! But you
can't climb under all circumstances, like if it's raining and you're halfway up a cliff you probably
want to find shelter and cook up a nice meal, and it's like - the game, just by the way the
gameplay is designed, diegetically encourages you to, like, do real camping stuff you would
probably do in that situation, which immerses you! And that's really good, because if the
whole point is the feeling of exploration, it needs to give you two things: it needs to give
you the tools to explore, and a world that you want to explore, that you CAN explore but it's
still a challenge, so it doesn't just feel like you can… essentially beat the game by just running
around however you want, and- and, you know- B: yeah.
R: like, I mean, I love speedrunning as much as anybody, but like
you really get the full experience of the game by playing by the rules, essentially! And the fact
that it's hard to break the game really helps encourage that. You can't, like, skyrim-clip your
horse halfway up the cliff, you gotta actually climb! I- I like that! I really like that. Anyway,
it's a good game. I'm excited for the second one. B: yeah, no, it's- it's- it's- it's a really
great game, and the way that they do the lore is- is honestly a, uh- a clinic, uh- a master class
for anyone else, uh, who wants to do this stuff. R: Yes.
B: Um, so, uh, of course there is much more zelda lore to be discovered, that's so much of the fun
of it, so a- a huge thanks again to Zeltik, um, for letting us use his footage, uh, and letting
us build off of his theories, uh - if you want to learn more of this, all of the things we talked
about you can find in videos I've linked in the description to- to his channel - and if you just
google zelda theories you'll find a whole bunch of cool stuff, so thank you again to zeltik and
that is all I've got from me! So- I don't know, Red, what- what do you think about, uh, about
f*cky time in breath of the wild? [laughs] R: [laughs] I think that uh breath of the wild
successfully does what it set out to do, where it clearly wanted to create a world that felt very
old and kind of eldritch but not inhospitable, and I think they managed to pull that off, so you
end up getting this sense of… familiarity? Which is a big help because of you know all the familiar
landmarks, no matter how much or how little you've played of zelda, the whole place feels
fairly homey while also feeling kind of like… not hostile, I mean, you know, there are monsters,
but they don't actually feel like they belong in the world. It feels like a familiar house… you
know, in the dark, with a serial killer in it, you know? Like, you still like the house, it's
just- it's- it's the circumstances that are making it inhospitable and you kind of want to -
you're compelled to fix that, which is of course a core gameplay mechanic, so it's good that the game
design passively encourages you to do that! If you know a lot of zelda lore then it's just a treat,
you know? You're running around, you're like "oh, I was here in skyward sword, ten thousand plus
years ago!" and it… it kind of… I think it's one of those things where in-universe you can sort of
see this as like… if you don't know what you're doing, this is link, with full amnesia and if
you have played zelda games before, this is link getting weird echoes of all of his past lives.
B: Yeah. Yeah! R: It's like, "that tree is weirdly familiar,
why do I remember that tree?? That statue - I could have sworn it didn't used to have a
roof over it-" just like, all that good sh*t. B: Yeah.
R: I love it when the analysis of the game doesn't detract from the game, but
actually strengthens it and- and I think- B: Yeah.
R: They did so much work in the world building and the visual and- and
game design of breath of the wild that it just ended up working really well… and I am excited
for breath of the wild two and I really hope they can pull it off a second time! [laughs]
B: oh, I think so. That's why they're taking their time.
R: yeah. B: but that- yeah, they- they gave you a hyrule
worth fighting for in breath of the wild- R: Yeah!.
B: And that's why it works so well. So, uh - BYE! [both laughing]
