Boston Public Radio Live From The Library With The Metropolitan Chorale

ahead on boston public radio parental burnout a mere two-thirds of america's mothers and fathers feel it oh my god are you among them then suffolk county district attorney kevin hayden will discuss his new plan for handling arrests at massive pass and how his office is handling young kids attacking people in downtown boston who he says are too young to prosecute undocumented immigrants may soon be able to get driver's licenses in massachusetts cali crossing will join us to discuss that and 1 million covet deaths with barely a mention all that ahead on boston public radio 897 gph [Music] live from npr news in washington i'm corava coleman the labor department says u.s hiring was robust in april it says 428 000 new jobs were created and the monthly unemployment rate remained at 3.6 percent president biden travels to ohio this afternoon he is scheduled to speak about the u.s economy and job creation from member station wvxu tana weingartner reports biden will visit a manufacturing plant in suburban cincinnati president biden will tour the global headquarters of united performance metals in hamilton ohio just north of cincinnati the company deals in specialty metals and alloys utilizing processes like additive manufacturing biden is using the stop to talk about his efforts to create manufacturing jobs and make more products in the u.s he'll also call on congress to support the bipartisan innovation act a mashup of separate house and senate measures aimed at making the u.s more competitive especially in areas like semiconductor manufacturing ohio made headlines earlier this year when intel announced it's investing more than 20 billion to build two such chip factories here for npr news i'm tana weingartner the u.n says it's working to evacuate more civilians from ukraine's besieged city of marupal hundreds of people have escaped this week but the u.n warns more people are trapped there are questions about what information the u.s shared with ukraine when it fired missiles at russia's main warship in the black sea the moskva sank last month after the ukrainian strike pentagon spokesman john kirby says the u.s routinely shares certain limited intelligence with ukraine but he told cnn the u.s did not offer information about the russian warship we did not provide specific targeting information about the mosque to the ukrainians we weren't involved in their decision to conduct that strike and we certainly weren't involved in the actual execution of that strike he says it's not in the interests of anyone for the conflict in ukraine to become a war between the u.s and russia every day more than a dozen people in the u.s die while waiting for a new organ and people of color are disproportionately affected npr's amy held reports a new initiative aims to combat disparities and save more lives a consortium of medical schools at historically black colleges and universities is seeking to make transplants more equitable improving access and providing opportunities for black medical students school kids and the broader community to learn more about transplants and become a donor black americans make up more than a quarter of those on the wait list for a new organ they are three times more likely than white americans to develop kidney failure the number one needed organ in all transplants are increasing up nearly six percent last year with more than forty thousand performed but to even be considered for one recipients have to make it onto the wait list and historic patterns of discrimination like getting to a doctor to make the referral can be an obstacle amy held npr news on wall street the dow was down 110 points this is npr good morning from the gbh radio newsroom here in brighton i'm henry santoro residents from summer of somerville can once again sign up for free cab rides to access food and medical care through its taxi to health program the program uses funds from the american rescue plan and it provides residents with free cab rides to grocery stores food pantries farmers markets and pharmacies in somerville and its surrounding cities and towns the program is administered jointly by the council on aging and the office of food access and healthy communities residents can book rides directly through the city or they can request vouchers to use in the future and rides should be booked at least two business days in advance they say cape cod community college is getting federal funds to inspire the next generation of cyber stars the funding from the national security agency or nsa will help the college offer cyber security programming for middle school students across the region during a science camp that's taking place this summer four c's president john cox says that cyber security is a booming industry right now and he's excited to show the possibilities to the next generation in sports the bruins are hoping for a win tonight against the hurricanes the bees are down two games to none in the playoffs red sox open a weekend series with the chicago white sox at fenway tonight first pitch is at 7 10. and dust off that fancy hat the kentucky derby is tomorrow in the forecast sun clouds low 60s today it's 61 under a partly cloudy sky in boston right now i'm henry santoro this is gbh news support for npr comes from npr stations other contributors include fisher investments fisher investments is a fiduciary which means they always put clients interests first fisher investments clearly different money management investing in securities involves the risk of loss it might be cloudy outside but it's nice and sunny inside the boston public library thanks to jim marjorie and boston public [Music] he radio to brady i am marjorie egan you are listening to boston public radio 897 gbh and we are broadcasting live as we do every tuesday and every friday from the boston public library where today we're going to have a little concert at the end of the show we are and thank you all for coming by the way we really appreciate it i have actually a few programming announcements to make before we start we also streaming live today on youtube.com gbh news but i would suggest you not just do the streaming i would show up we have a hell of a show we do we have the d.a of suffolk county we have cali we have sai montgomery in studio with a brilliant new book called the hawks way we have margaret marshall the former chief justice of the supreme judicial court who obviously made the first uh decision in america almost 20 years ago embracing same-sex marriage we're going to talk to her about what impact she thinks this row overturning we'll have on that and finally the brilliant metropolitan chorale they're not just going to sing today several times marjorie they also have a taft dancer tap dancing on the radio i know it doesn't get much better and final programming announcement which we're really excited about on monday we are joined by dr anthony fauci first time we've had him on the show and i know i speak for marjorie we are thrilled first the new report out this week from ohio state university found that two-thirds of parents in this country meet the criteria for parental burnout that's two-thirds i know what you're thinking we're not talking about run-of-the-mill tiredness that comes with being a parent this is real true emotional and physical exhaustion to the point where the world health organization recognizes it as a syndrome it's worth noting the survey was originally done in the winter of 21 which was not the easiest winter in recent memory even still we thought we'd open the lines to you parents out there and kids to hear how you're juggling it all and what you're doing to separate the parent part of you from the person part of you if you're managing to create any space at all that is are you feeling totally fried what would you bring you back to yourself give us a buzz or a text at 877-301-8970 again that's texting or calling you can email at bprwgbh.org and tweet us at bos public radio and i'm going to beat marjorie to the punch the story on this in the new york times the least surprising part of the study 68 of working mothers say they're burnt out well just 42 of working dads said the same thing i wonder 877-301-897 are you surprised by the numbers admittedly it was mid-pandemic no no i mean i i mean it's really there's 24 hours in a day right yeah you got to work at your job eight hours you're supposed to commute back and forth you get up in the morning if your kids are little you gotta either find if you know get them to daycare which is a big production you know you got to get the food for the daycare all the stuff for the day you got to pick them up in daycare on time you're sitting in rush hour traffic at five o'clock in the afternoon trying to get to the daycare on time or the after school program on time where they charge you you know by the minute if you're late right so if you're 10 minutes late you're up to 10 bucks i can add up if you're late every day then you're gonna go home make dinner well no don't leave that if you think you get you'd pay every minute and if you're 30 minutes like they take your kid to dcf that's right and that's the end that's right that's the end of the game so no it's just it's just i always i always i'm a big fan of gloria steinem big feminist leader back in the 70s you know what gloria steinem never had kids children exactly so a lot of her uh you know her prescriptions about how we're going to solve things with the helpful husband they just uh haven't worked out that way so i'm not surprised at all and by the way there is i am been rhapsodizing for days about this great piece by a woman named jessie klein k-l-e-i-n she writes for the cut which is in new york magazine this is from her uh from her wonderful book about uh motherhood and talking about the heroic journey of being a mother we always talk about odysseus you know everybody's out there they're fighting the wolves they're fighting the big armies they're fighting this while the mothers are at home taking care of the kids she talks about how the real heroic journey is at home where the exhausted overwhelmed mother is trying not to really just throw the kids in the closet and walk out of the room forever you know so it's it's great stuff i love all this stuff our number is 877-301-8970 when the show's over if you're wondering where you are on the scale of burnout parent this ohio state university attached to it are ten statements with which you agree not at all a little somewhat they're like item one i get or feel easily irritated with my children who would say i don't feel that did you when you were kids i think you're irritated all the time i feel that i am not the good parent that i used to be to my children i wake up exhausted at the thought of another day with my children i have guilt about being a working parent which affects how i parent my children on and on and on eight seven seven three zero one eighty nine seventy i knew a woman once actually knew her fairly well who said to me once when her kids were not little but they were college age she called me on the day that her kids were about to return to college and she said to me on the phone free at last free at last god almighty i'm free at last who was that it was i it was you yes it was well you know that's that's the thing i love my children you're crazy about your kids you love your kids but it's constant exhaustion frustration patience never ending patience it is really hard to raise to raise children i think that's one of the things i i am feminist i'm a big fan of the women's movement but i think that's one of the things that we failed to consider that raising children is very time consuming and still then as now is mothers who are doing most of it well you know i'd like to say by the way our number's number eight seven 877-301-8970 three zero one eight nine seven i have to say my experience as a father when my kids were young they're now 28 and 30. it was very different i didn't feel burnt out at all and it's amazing totally relaxed not stressed that's really what that was that's right totally fine well you are the dad and not the mom oh whatever eight seven seven three zero one eighty nine seven can i have help from somebody for a second moving this uh comrex screen a little bit eight seven seven three zero one eighty nine uh seventy let's start with rachel in framingham hi rachel hey rachel welcome to the show thank you so much guys i love your show and this is an awesome topic thanks so much for taking it thank you um so i i'm a visiting nurse in metrowest my um so my job obviously for the pandemic was pretty crazy it was kind of exacerbated by the fact that i had two small children and at the beginning of the pandemic they covered out here in much of west daycare for the kids but that only lasted about two months and then after that my one child could i could afford daycare for one child but i was a single parent i couldn't do it for both so as a result my eight-year-old would be in the car with me while i was going to see patients doing homeschooling from the car from the car he would be on in the back of my car running internet off of my cell phone doing school while i was going in to home pages that wasn't stressful at all was it rachel as a result to say that my children and i are attached to the hip probably in a crazy way of that it's probably not healthy for anyone it's an understatement you know my my eight-year-old at the time is now 10 and it's like dealing with a little adult you know because now he's seen more medical crisis than you could imagine and it you know he he's used to being with me in a work environment so it's just like you know trying to send him to any sort of normal child thing is insane thing is a home nurse rachel i've often read enviously of other countries where after uh moms give birth they send nurses to the home to check on how mom's doing with the newborn baby wouldn't that be a wonderful thing any sort of anything that anyone would do for a mother with a newborn baby in this country would be welcome yeah don't worry they're not doing it anytime soon rachel thank you for a great call here's a text from 7274 we have only one child and both of us have relatively flexible jobs given that we are toast so one kid with relatively flexible jobs eight seven seven three zero one eighty nine seven and for this great jesse klein piece which i'm gonna be quoting all day she talks about how you know you're not really supposed to admit a lot you're supposed to be in this you know oh my god the messiah is born and i'm just in bliss all the time and she says you what you have to do is swallow the pain and frustration she says no one wants to know that after your mother finally placed you in the crib she walked out of the room and screamed into a blanket or cried in the bathroom or drank a bottle of wine or all of the above no one wants to know that if she rocked you and sang you the tenth lullaby of the night she was fantasizing about putting you down walking out the door and never coming back a mother's heroic journey is not about how she leaves but how she stays well that's pretty good texter from 89 19 said my husband was a teacher i sang it when he left too so apparently it's not just uh of recent 877-301-8970 training of our toddler i did find myself googling how to get a new family these people are honest amy and worcester you are next on boston public radio live from the boston public library welcome hi hi how are you excellent how are you uh better now so i left my job in january i was a middle school principal and i left my job in january totally burnt out um my child would you know really bear the brunt of my frustration and my burnout um i was easily irritated the very first uh indicator you talked about and once i left i have the energy to go outside and play with him when he comes home from school i can i'm making breakfast in the morning i can't stay not working forever i will be going back to work but um it's just been such a nice relief from the craziness of the last two years especially in the education field do you feel screwed though that you had to give that up to be able to not be stressed by your other responsibility yes it has been i i have said to multiple people you either get to work or you get to enjoy life you don't get to do both yeah and that's it's irritating and it you really feel robbed especially in you know right now i'm door dashing that's what i'm doing for you know just to make some extra money and it's no stress it's easy but um yeah it's it's it's not fair it's not fair to families especially i'm a single parent on top of it so well if you lived in virtually any other western democracy you wouldn't have quit your job to do that by the way but i guess we all know that amy thanks for the call by the way i totally blew the punch line from that person said their toast no when about the the husband her first text which i missed was when my kids went back to school every september i sang quote it's the most wonderful day of the year all day and then she went on to say my husband was the teacher i sang when he left too so sorry that i buried the punch line there eight seven seven three zero one eighty nine seven yeah by the way we didn't intend this to be a serious thing but it is true every call every text everything in these stories is in great part a function of the inability to get accessible affordable child care you know why don't we take to the streets about this why don't we put up with this in the united states we just had a opportunity to get a bill passed that would have enabled people to get to pay seven percent of their income that's it seven percent of your income for child care were there was there a march in washington about this no there wasn't i mean that but i was in buildback better back better but exactly which went down the streets why i mean think about that how now that impacts your stress level your financial forget we never had that we had a child an increased expanded child tax credit right that disappeared once again another example of something we had that is now going on i'll say one thing for the french man they try to take two minutes off their work week they are taking the streets and by the hundreds of thousands we just get kicked in the pants all the time and we take it there's something really oddly passive well let's see how we react to roe v wade by the way too let's see let's see i hope it's i hope it's different but i'm not sure it's gonna be enough elias is complaining that we're not uh that we're always talking about the moms instead of the dads but the truth of the matter is that he may be very exhausted and burnt out but the the bulk of it in most situations is on moms not on dads well well i want to challenge you there i mean i don't think that's fair because having spoken a lot of dads myself of young kids playing golf every weekend it's really it's taxing you miss the kids and the mother or the co-parent or whatever seven seven three zero one eighty nine uh seventy by the way this is for you marjorie jesse klein was on fresh air with uh terry gross which obviously this is one oh my god yeah i have her podcast i'll have to listen to it because i absolutely love jeff i'm in love obviously with jessie klein i think she's she talked about the heroic journey of the mothers you know it's not going outside it's going deep inside and getting inner strength and i think she's really nailed it emily and newton you're next on boston public radio thank you for calling hi hi so this uh issue made me think about when i oh i guess i should turn off the volume um when i was 19 i lived in venezuela for six months and it was such a stark difference in the way that they live because the aunts uncles cousins grandparents everyone lives close by yeah and so no one was expected to be raising children by themselves and i just i feel like for all the moms in particular who are so stressed out like you're stressed out for a reason we're not supposed to be living so isolated in the way i mean they could not believe that i had a dad in one state a mother in another state grandparents and other states they just they just thought it was crazy and so you know i just think we probably didn't evolve to live to have the two parents struggling to raise their kids work do all this stuff by themselves so when my kids were little there was an i had i was very fortunate to have a network of moms and we all stepped up and helped one another so i just i just hope that anyone who's feeling so stressed out just you know has some just go is gentle with themselves because there's a reason you're so stressed out and they should be stepping up to do a lot more you know you raise you raise a great point i mean the people that i know with young children who have family nearby is a totally different existence because the grandparents can babysit which eases financial strain and also the you know the all the emotional strain you go through of first bringing a kid to daycare first having a nanny that you don't that you don't know and who's taking care of the kid it really the we the nuclear family is not good for a lot of things and child rearing is one of them yeah but can i be with emily thanks for calling can i be a broken record there are a lot of uh nations that don't have that culture that venezuela as emily said or japan has for example and that's where government steps in to fill the hole so for the most part we have neither with some exceptions now somebody just said that oh uh martin answered am i why don't we take to the streets she says to me margie we can't take to the streets because we're worked to death and we feel that if they keep us working forever we can't protest anything because we will be too exhausted that's a very good point thank you very much let's go to colleen in easton thank you for calling colleen hi um this is my first time calling but i listen all the time well thank you for both i just wanted i just wanted to chime in and i'm a working mother of four but my younger two were in college when the pandemic hit and i just need and that was it was stressful raising four children and working not in a pandemic and i just need a shout out to all those parents of young children who were raising their kids i cannot even imagine what it must have been like or what it must be like and the fallout from that to the schedules and you know it's it's no wonder that parents are feeling stressed because it's stressful in normal normal yeah exactly so you made a great point calling a neighborhood with lots of kids and and i just would watch these parents and marvel and say oh my gosh this was a really good time in my life for a pandemic to hit because my children were so much older yeah colleen great first goal thanks for watching sadly all the the the research is coming in that we really overestimated the danger of sending kids back to school we would have done been much better off have we sent the kids back to school earlier because the learning loss was awful the trauma was awful and there's a fear that it's not going to be caught up on now before we take a break let me read this text from 7775 a parent of two kids for 18 months bart when my adorable but rambunctious son was a toddler more than once i googled quote how do you know if your kid is a sociopath it's not just people with small kids when your kids are in elementary school the stress and pressure don't change much mine are nine and ten but then but then from nine and ten you can look forward to the teen years right where your kids are the biggest jerk going from the age of 11 till about the age of 25 and you have to worry about drinking drugs sex all those other things so it just never it just never ends we're getting our stories and solutions to parental burnout often newly published studies showing two-thirds of parents in the united states show signs of chronic burnout it's such a big deal the world health organization jim he's recognized this as a syndrome anyway we're going to keep taking your calls and texts after this break the number 877-301-8970 you can email us at bprwgbh.org or tweet us at boss public radio we are broadcasting live from the boston public library [Music] the world's newsroom is following events in ukraine we don't want to see vladimir putin feeling as if he is in a corner we were sleeping and we heard explosions the ukrainian anthem starts with the phrase ukraine is not dead yet our coverage from ukraine and stories from all around the globe it's on the world this afternoon at 3 here on gbh news 89 7 support for our programs comes from you and the british international school of boston committed to helping students achieve academically personally and socially through global learning opportunities space is available for the fall learn more at bisboston.org and the mass general cancer center working to define the future of cancer care with innovative research and clinical trials that provide access to tomorrow's therapies today learn more at mass general dot org slash cancer [Music] welcome back to boston public radio jim browdy rodriguez live at the boston public library and streaming on youtube at youtube.com gbh news but trust me today you should be here if you're just joining us we're talking about a study out of ohio state that confirms we've all felt over the last couple of years working parents are approaching surpassing in some cases clinical levels of burnout is the kind of exhaustion as one clinical social worker put it where you've been quote giving and giving and giving and giving until you're totally empty we want to know if you're empty give us a call i get a couple of good 877-301-8970 from dads paul says hi my daughter just got out of the terrible twos she turned 23. that's pretty good ernie says and this is a great point isn't some of it self-imposed i'm just two years removed from having 15 games and activities per weekend with three kids that's a big thing too and when you get to the teen years it gets even worse because if they're playing sports after school then you're trying to figure out how to get your kids tracked meet while you're supposed to be at work and how you get to the soccer game and how you get to the practices and then it becomes a carpool nightmare and i mean it's just um it's hard i guess that's obvious no that's a very insightful point i would agree with that i think there's a consensus it is really hard and jamie and bill ricka you are next on boston public radio thank you for the call hi hi folks hey do you want to uh uh long time listener i want to thank you for the uh great guest commentators you have on regular i feel better and informed about the world uh every time uh you have such great guests on thank you so do we uh what's up as far as the the parenting goes i was thinking about how the public tax system affects that and i'd love to have a discussion about how our tax code could better support parents but there's one thing that makes me hesitate to do that and it's something i hear you guys say all the time what you say ex-billionaire why millionaire didn't pay any taxes but that's really inaccurate what that actually means is they didn't owe any taxes so i think your argument is really with the irs or with congress for how they set up the tax code well jamie you're you're a much more charitable person than i one we don't know because we don't get their tax returns who's creatively legally using the tax code who for example uh the former president you may have heard of him donald trump said when he got hundreds of millions of dollars in refunds he was complying with law you buying that from mr trump i don't know we have no as you as you said we have no way of knowing and if they were doing anything illegal and not obeying the law to win in terms of uh all their taxes and they should be audited and okay jamie thank you i'm rushing off of this only because this really is a little far afield for what we're talking about what's also ridiculous with all due respect to uh jamie uh i mean that in the nicest way jamie i'm just whatever eight seven seven three zero one eighty nine uh seventy is the number here's a good if you need a sort of a a support group my husband and i were pastors from 1509 serving neighboring churches when our third child was born after an insane trip with all three to the grocery store i dreamed up a new support group the po'd for parents outnumbered and one need only have one child to belong i think it's an excellent idea people should join get sports equipment 877-301-8977 make breakfast make sure school clothes are ready make sure everyone has their inhalers by the time i got to work i'd already done a full day's work and was exhausted my husband would get up early to watch an hour of tv and spend an hour in the bathroom facebooking we are now separated but somewhere in the line he asked what happened to us well i got a good one to it from 7551 when i had my son the best advice i got was from a co-worker it was this it's okay to look out the window and thinking about jumping just don't do it that made me feel normal ashley you're in new hampshire you're on boston public radio thank you for calling hi hi thanks for having me thanks for calling my first time calling listen to you guys a long time i'm uh i'm a mom of three i was so fortunate to have my third kid six months before the pandemic hit and um my job closed a week before shut down so i was actually stuck at home with my three children for the first time since having them and i really struggled with learning how to do remote learning keep the house clean do not run away and it was it was a lot and i have to give my husband credit he was he was all hands on deck but i don't think that we give stay at home enough credit and i will say that i ran back to work at the first chance i got and the biggest challenge was finding child care because there was no child care available especially for the two-year-old so what'd you do what'd you do well i cobbled together a system that was a precarious house of cards that was part nanny part um flexible work cycle with my husband's job part grandparent and part two day a week daycare and honestly if it didn't work when it was what we had to do and it was uh super stressful because if the kid was sick one of us had to stay home even if it was just a runny nose because of coded policy and um we were on a waiting list to get into daycare it was crazy i don't know how people do it so how you doing now sort of hopefully we're coming out of the other end how are you holding up um you know i'm i work i work in boston i live in new hampshire i have a four hour long commute round trip 10 to 11 hour work day and three children so i've been better you know ashley before you go in a moment of seriousness while margie and i both ugged when you said a four-hour commute is the four-hour commute in on some days at least not a a respite that you feel you actually was welcomed oh i get to listen to you guys i mean i think horrible i i moved here from los angeles so i thought i was used to it but i think you guys win ashley you're a good one thank you uh glad you made your first call we really we really appreciate it eight seven seven three zero one eighty nine seventy by the way yesterday we were talking about or yesterday ten minutes ago we were talking about are people gonna rise up on the abortion front and a someone from an organization called boston red cloaks wants this to know they're going to be walking slowly and solemnly from the make way for ducklings in uh obviously in the common the great nancy sheeran sculptures to the state house for 2 p.m speakers join us if you're ready to fight for abortion right so i would say you could listen to the show be at the show and then join them at the state house if you so choose 8773-189 70 is the number brian from brian from east boston thank you for calling hey brian hey how you doing um yeah i just wanted to comment on the fact that i i i literally i've had some terrible roommates when i was in college but the two children four and seven that are in our house are the hardest roommates why is that and not only that they're they're not paying their bills you give them anything to eat and it's all over the floor and they don't clean up after themselves yeah it takes them so much time just to get their shoes on to get out of the house so but i've had some terrible obnoxious roommates but these are these are definitely well you just have to choose your roommates more carefully next time brian that's the bottom line brian thanks for your call we appreciate it you know it's so funny i'm surrounded by people with young kids people downstairs to me their kids are a little bit older now but you know so many times i hear them in the morning and mom's out there saying get in the car get in the car get in the car get in the car get in the car get in the car get the guy like 20 times before the kids finally get in the car and the guy across the street from me he's got like a a two-year-old an infant and every morning he's trying to carry the two-year-old out to get in the car to go to the daycare wherever they're going under his arm with the kids kicking and screaming and carrying on that's pretty good yeah i know it and of course as many people have pointed out it never ends because you think you're going to get rid of them when they go off and they become adults and sometimes they refuse to leave jim hey by the way you know we should say as an antidote to this doesn't fix everything it's a small touch a little later in the show we're going to take your calls on what you can do for your mother on sunday on mother's day but up next we're going to talk to suffolk county d.a kevin hayden about his expansion of services over sentencing programs at massachusetts avenue and melania cash boulevard and also these attacks by some very young kids uh against uh people on boston common in downtown crossing you are listening to boston public radio 897 gbh we're broadcasting live as we do every tuesday and friday from the boston public library [Music] here in massachusetts we like to think we do politics better than other places but have we really lived up to that ideal i'm adam reilly tonight on talking politics we speak with the editors of a new book that asks whether massachusetts exceptionalism is real or bogus plus a.g candidate quentin palfrey joins us to talk about his candidacy and his push to keep outside money out of that race talking politics tonight at 7 on gbh2 and online at gbhnews.org support for gbh comes from you and speak easy stage presenting the inheritance matthew lopez's tony award-winning play which chronicles the lives of three generations of gay men in a changing america now playing more at speakeasystage.com and safety insurance cyber attacks aren't going away you can talk to an independent agent about cyber coverage from safety insurance safety insurance they'll help you manage life's storms even the cyberkind welcome back to boston public radio jim browdy and rodriguez we're live at the boston public library you can watch us streaming on youtube as well youtube.com gbh news earlier this week interim self-accounting d.a kevin hayden announced plans for an expansion of the service over sentences program for people arrested around mass and cass program seeks to point people with substance abuse issues and mental illness towards treatment and hopes they can circumvent jail time that could just make their problems worse the d.a will explain it better he joins us now by the way as you know the da's running for reelection uh challenging him is ricardo arroyo he will be joining us on may 20th d.a hayden it's great to see you thanks so much for being here good to see you again thank you pleasure thank you very much district attorney for coming in so let's start with this story about this um this mission hill k-8 school where there was a apparently years of of kids sexually abusing each other and bullying and stuff that went on for quite some time the school's gonna close now i guess but what what i'm wondering about it is is um how do we know that this is unusual if it's gone on there for years and nobody seemed to know about it and what is going to happen if anything criminally with anybody involved up there sure well first of all obviously i i think the entire situation is horribly tragic um to discover and learn that these sorts of things have been going on for so long um and apparently not maybe revealed or known at the level that they should have been so we are reviewing the report um and looking uh into what if anything will do uh our primary concern is whether or not there was mandatory reporting requirements that weren't followed appropriately so as as far as you know at the moment as you're investigating that i guess we're led to believe no one ever reached out to the police no one ever reached out to the suffolk county diesels you've only been there a few months but i mean based on your research there was nobody reach out to anybody except officials in the school itself as far as i know no the first i learned of it was one that became known in the media you know i want to follow up on marjorie's question we asked the same question of mayor wu about this when she was with us the other day this is what troubles me most obviously we're deeply troubled by what we know or believe happened at mission hill is if the suffolk county d.a and the boston police knew nothing about what was going on within the school and let's assume that's true for the moment then how do we know that there's not another mission hill at another school where things are being covered up in-house where kids are being abused in one fashion another and what do you do to try to assure that that isn't happening going forward we don't know dewey i think that's a question that you have asked the boston public school department so what do you do but what do you do about it i mean i assume the fact to me when i read the story and i read that some parents uh district attorney were complaining to the school and didn't understand care uh uh get the fact that if you're not only if you're not getting satisfaction if you are getting satisfaction if a crime has been perpetrated against your child then the person to talk to is the cop or the d.a i mean there's an education gap there clearly know that you should be filling am i not right about that no i wouldn't disagree with that that's exactly what they should be doing any parent that is concerned about uh crimes being committed or perpetrated against their their children should be reporting that to the police and or our office so is there some program that either the new superintendent we don't know who he or she is yet the superintendent's office you are planning to do to educate parents be happy to engage in that we we do some probing around that like now you see and things like that that inform people about what their rights are and what the what's available to them so and there may be prosecutions here last question about mission hill there may be you're looking into whether or not there are crimes that merit prosecution correct we are but we i i have caution we're not we're not an investigation stage we're reviewing the report fair enough talking to d.a kevin hayden so there's been a lot of media coverage of these young kids going after people in downtown crossing and boston common we have michelle wu was on wbz tv last week talking about this group of kids that were kind of running around not behaving themselves here she is these are children who need support and services and they're connected to adults who also need to have some accountability we're looking to make sure that when we do know about specific identities in people that there's a very closely targeted intervention to provide those supports so what's happening with these uh kids involved in this well first of all running around and not behaving themselves would be an understatement yeah that is true this is a um a series of violent attacks that have been going on for a long period of time since the middle of march along with other serious crimes that um that these young children have been committing um so uh we do have uh two juveniles that are of age who have been arrested and charged in a series of attacks and other incidents um and there is also anyone who's read the media has heard i think there's an eleven-year-old that's involved as well a girl and um that is uh beyond our purview um for the new per the law the change in the law um and so it's my understanding that the department of uh the dcf has become involved and substantially involved but i don't know much more than that and for kids that are older like the 13 year olds what are the options for services for them a juvenile is arrested it's always tragic it's always heartbreaking it's always difficult to deal with we never want to see it right our first response is always intervention and services and prevention for kids that are brought into it into the system um and in this particular circumstance uh had that happen at the outset that's exactly what we would have been looking at unfortunately in this circumstance uh things got out of control uh it got to the point we were looking at a series of violent attacks uh and we were faced with a unfortunate and extreme measures of having to actually arrange and charge these individuals can you confidently say i mean one of these attacks at least was uh what a suffolk count a suffolk lawsuit and i think it was getting punched in the face or in the on the comment by the eleven yeah how do you sure are you and the police able to assure someone on a nice day like yesterday or maybe even today that wants to walk through the common that they're safe and that that's not gonna happen to them well we can never ensure that absolutely obviously i i will tell you that since uh since we've gotten some control over this situation that the uh violent incidences in downtown boston the area have gone way down meaning it was pretty much the same set of kids doing this over same shade of kids yeah it's been two violent incidents in the last seven days i think as opposed to prior to that it was a daily occurrence sometimes multiple times a day you know i was a reporter for a long time for the boston herald and covered a lot of crime stories and i always remember thinking lots of times you'd get to the house where there were kids that were involved in some kind of trouble maybe they were a little bit older um you you weren't in the house for too long or you didn't talk to mom for too long or maybe dad if he was around or to realize that there was a huge problem in in this house and thinking wouldn't it be wonderful if there were some opportunities for whole families you know we don't do enough for people that are living with very difficult either mental health issues or substance abuse issues or poverty issues you know like this violence of these kids doesn't come out of nowhere no these these children are dealing with in all likelihood very deep-seated trauma um that is has been probably prevalent from the very beginning of their life um that holistic approach to intervention and prevention and treatment for the entire family and to address um the entire cycle that um is going on is an approach that was used before back when i was in the disc attorney's office many years ago um i don't know if it's not being used now um it it is expensive but it's also necessary you have you have uh an entire family that needs support that needs services that needs access to um the opportunities that can hopefully prevent these sorts of things from happening you think the services are there i mean marjorie goes out of her way i have to say almost every opportunity to talk about the commitment and quality of work of social workers who are underpaid undervalued work with dcf but are the resources i mean you've been in around the system as the d.a the sex offender registry you ran and here now are the resources there to match the rhetoric i think they are i think that that the people that need the services though ultimately at some level have to want it uh they have to be willing to come to the table well you know that's a perfect segue to they have to want it they have to come to the table they need intervention almost the exact same words that you and mayor will use around these kids appear to be what at least the policy is including in your office around this sort of re-emergence for lack of a better expression of mass and cast before you tell us what you're doing there could you tell us almost i assume everybody listening either here at the library or home or at work or in their car knows what happened when mast and cass was shut down and what the efforts were on mayor wu's behalf to find places for them where are we in early may of 2022 at madison cast before you tell us about some of the crimes you're trying to deal with sure i think where we are in terms of where we could be i don't think we know yet i think that the mayor and the boston police my office everyone has done boston public health commission done an extraordinary job of trying to lay a hold of that problem um i just actually just drove by there earlier today and i think that everyone shares the concern that are we with the weather returning and sun coming back are we going to return to an explosion of the problem that we saw before it's i think it's too early to tell um what we have determined to do is uh dedicate um 400 000 resources in conjunction um with the sensing over services organization in order to provide um treatment alternatives for people down there um who need it and who want it and we're focusing on the both hot the highest risk and the highest need people that are down there when you said sentencing over services you meant services over sentencing a second ago so that people don't think you're i did so and this is just understand what does that mean in english i mean i assume this is non-violent offenses is that am i right about that those who have this diversionary sort of care and what's available to that person uh what's available to that person sure so it's through north shore mental health um and there are we're going to have uh both uh service providers and the coordinator that are going to be working with people that come into the system they can voluntarily uh place themselves into uh treatment programs to hopefully deal with their addiction problems or mental health issues quite frankly they go hand in hand almost all the time right um and in so doing be diverted from prosecution be diverted from sentencing and hopefully get the treatment they need hopefully understand what brought them to that location in the first place and hopefully help them to understand why it would be best and most healthy for them not to return and if they voluntarily select that option they're prosecuted is that is that what you do is that it depends i mean there are still certain situations where we where we might divert the case but if if a high-risk kind individual is arraigned and chooses not to avail themselves of the services yes they before you were not the d.a i assume everybody knows you became the d.a you're appointed by the governor after rachel rollins was elevated to the u.s attorney's office you were not there when sheriff tompkins uh made the offer of some of his facilities right down there that i think was respectfully responded to by most public officials but never embraced and the primary argument against it and please correct me if you think i'm misstating it was a jail is still a jail no matter how you design it no matter what it looks like no matter how inviting you hope it to be what's your position on whether or not uh uh you others should avail themselves of sheriff tompkins offer i applaud sheriff tompkins for the the willingness and the boldness to um suggest such an approach um and i think it's something that is still there it's still an option and it should still be reconsidered we have to consider every option and every lever and every mechanism and every avenue of treatment and resources to deal with mass and cast well you know what i thought when a serotoxin was taking so much criticism people that want to get three months 90 days of inpatient substance abuse help or inpatient mental health help can't get it for the most part if they forget if they're at mass and gas if they're just living in you know wellesley or something and i do think that was kind of uh that was sort of shunted aside three months of of help is a big deal but but everybody seemed to be against the idea because of the jail part three months of help versus uh a week or two weeks of help is a big difference and um i fear that maybe some place too much emphasis on the fact that it was the jail at the end of the day it was a building just like this is a building um and i fear that the the definition of that building might have curtailed a really good opportunity so you think it should get a more serious look you seem to be saying i don't see why not because again you can't afford it you know your insurance won't cover you for a certain level or there's not enough beds or you're waiting you know you're ready to go into treatment today but they tell you well we can't give you treatment until friday and friday comes you don't want to go into treatment anymore it's a big problem those beds um and that building is still there there's no reason not to try it we tried um another building down there that just got shut down because there's too much violence going on there tried it's been shut down for now it might be reopened but i think we need to try everything we're talking to suffolk county district attorney kevin hayden um so the something called the youth violence strike force arrested a brockton man in roslindale who had a loaded firearm which was later described as a ghost gun so two questions district attorney tell us what the youth violence strike force is and what a ghost gun is so the youth violence strike force is just a division with the ma within the boston police department that is dealing with um uh people that are associated with gangs and and high-level at-risk youth um and or adults young adults that are in um involved in criminality so that's what the utah strike force says ghost guns is a very complicated issue it's not necessarily people hear about the 3d printer and they go oh this gun is just made on 3d printed that's not really how it works so most of the gun is provided through alternative sources it's sent to you you go somewhere you buy it it's a kit and then there's instructions to use your 3d printer to to create various pieces that then go together with whatever you've bought that makes the gun that's with no id that's really what it is no id no way of tracing it no serial numbers no nothing dangerous because those pieces are plastic dangerous because those pieces erode over time dangerous because um they're not the greatest guns to begin with and they can also eventually pose a risk to you as well when you're firing it if not used appropriately you know i noticed in the story talking about the arrest of this man with a ghost gun that there were three men in the car when the officers approached them and the officers recognized the three men as people who already had firearms cases pending and one of them was wearing a gps ankle bracelet so it did seem as though the ankle bracelet and the pending cases did not deter their enthusiasm to be out on the street armed no it didn't we've had some more incidents the way with this shooting in um uh chinatown was somewhere people already had the the prior history you know uh we're talking interim the district interim is the right word is that what you are in the interim is that what the i'm the district attorney okay we're talking a district attorney of suffolk county who's running for re-election uh in the uh full kevin hayden you know i want to spend the last few minutes on a case that is really putting me and i assume everybody over the age patrick rose uh pled guilty to essentially being a serial sexual abuser uh he was uh credibly believed by the police themselves 20 plus years ago to have sexually abused the kid uh they let him stay on the force for a mere 20 years ultimately became the head of the patrolmen's association union because he was allowed to stay on the force correct me if i'm wrong at any point that'll essentially enabled him to become a serial abuser as opposed to one-time abuser to your credit the victims the survivors were spared from having testified by the guilty pleas you negotiated with him however here's the big however we discussed this with mayor wu last week there was a cover-up in the police department there was decisions made by people in the police department leadership that allowed patrick rose the serial child abuser to continue to have access to kids as a cop in the city for two decades the fear i and i hope every fair-minded person has is that with this guilty plea and by the way making it sound like i'm criticizing you i'm not at all i think it's good you got a guilty plea that there is no vehicle for ever opening this case uh mayor walsh would not disclose any of his internal file uh interim mayor uh janie disclosed i think 13 of more than 100 pages we asked mayor wu the other day she said she'd speak to her people at the police oversight thing where are you on whether or not the public has a right and is right to demand that public officials let us know who knew what when and who did what what to enable this guy to be the worst kind of criminal sure i you know i was at that plea um and uh it was also with one of the survivors a week later at a ceremony in our office where survivors were honored for their bravery and for their fortitude and for what it takes to get through these sorts of cases they are always tragic that one in particular was absolutely heartbreaking i will be frank in saying to you that i don't know that much about the circumstances in terms of what was or wasn't provided or what that cover-up was if any um but it's certainly something i'd be willing to look at shouldn't these fight i mean it is not credible we only have a minute left in my estimation with all due respect to mayor janey that 80 plus pages had to be redacted to protect the identity of the survivors of course you protect their identity but 5 6 of the document not available to the public don't you think it's important that we the public know who is responsible for enabling this guy for two decades from my standpoint without seeing those documents knowing what was redacted and why it was redacted and not knowing what the issues were surrounding the victims i really i don't know i just don't know that much about it i apologize well i hope you i would ask is it respectfully before you're back next time i would hope you take a look at this because i don't think i'm speaking for just me i think it's terrible this guy was accused in 1995 resigned in 2018 and the negligence enabled him to abuse other children that's the tragedy it's kind of like the catholic church kind of thing we only have 10 seconds are you having any fun in this job or is this like a nightmare no i'm loving every minute you are i was built for this there you go i was built for this had 25 years of experience prosecutor criminal defense attorney nine years of the sex offender registry board um that's fun too the sex offender registered yeah that was real fun no i i honestly believe um i was called for such a time as this i'm built for it i'm loving every minute of it we're glad to see you we hope to see you again soon kevin hayden that is kevin district attorney of suffolk county is running for elected full-time and we've got his opponent ricardo arroyo he'll be joining us later this month up next we're going to talk to gbh's cali crossley about the bill to allow undocumented residents of massachusetts to get driver's licenses and about kareem gpr the first black openly gay u.s press secretary following the exit of jen saki that's of course biden's press secretary kelly crosby up next listening to 89 7 gbh boston public radio live from the boston public library [Music] [Music] i'm frank oglesby voice of the t the doors are opening for smart conversation with jim browdy and marjorie egan on boston public radio local perspective local voices welcome aboard boston's local npr funding for our programs comes from you and the boston pops this spring at symphony hall you can enjoy film nights broadway stars a gospel performance and a celebration of the musical legacy of duke ellington and billy strayhorn tickets at bostonpops.org follow a robotics team as it unites a town and teaches its young residents that they can overcome obstacles and chase their dreams don't miss big dreams in umatilla saturday at 6 on gbh 44. trusted local news this is 89 7 wgbh wgbh hd1 boston online at gbhnews.org boston's local npr ahead on boston public radio journalist and naturalist sai montgomery joins us at the library to discuss her new book the hawks way encounters with fierce beauty then former chief justice of the massachusetts supreme judicial court margaret marshall who wrote america's first decision embracing same-sex marriage joins us to reflect on the impending end of roe v wade and what it might mean from same-sex marriage we'll fill our boston public library studio with an amazing musical concert the metropolitan chorale of brookline joins us with a preview of duke ellington's sacred concert all that more ahead boston public radio 897 gbh [Music] live from npr news in washington i'm lakshmi singh the united nations says it is evacuating ukrainian civilians from a massive steel plant in the besieged port city of mariupol npr's joanna kisses reports from southern ukraine that the civilians are sheltering in tunnels underneath the plant along with hundreds of ukrainian soldiers the massive steel plant is the last ukrainian holdout in mariupol which russia claims it has occupied russian bombing and shelling have destroyed nearly every building in the port city the un's humanitarian chief calls mariupo a series of bleak hellscapes russian troops have reportedly pushed into the steel works tunnel to attack ukrainian soldiers there there are reports of heavy bloody fighting the wives and partners of ukrainian soldiers fighting in azov stall are pleading with the u.n to also evacuate the fighters they are staging protests in the city of zapporija where azov stall evacuees are taken joanna kakissas npr news zaporija ukraine in the united states clinics and groups that provide support to people seeking abortions or bracing for a change in the nation's laws if the us supreme court's leaked draft opinion takes effect young women and black and latino women will be among those disproportionately affected should roe v wade be struck down npr's yuki noguchi has more those who get abortions in this country are also among the most disadvantaged young and poor people and racial minorities poor access to sex education insurance health care and contraception contribute to disproportionately higher rates according to the most recent data black and latino women receive more than half of all abortions about a third of abortions are performed on white non-hispanic women the same people in those populations are also likeliest to lose access to abortion if the supreme court's draft ruling stands that would also trigger state abortion restrictions or bans across about 25 states yuki noguchi npr news hiring in the us is still going strong underscore by a new report today that shows the economy gained 428 000 jobs in april the government's monthly assessment of the labor market also shows the unemployment rate defying rising consumer prices supply chain disruptions and rising borrowing costs npr scott horsley takes a closer look at how wage is fair average hourly wages in april were up five and a half percent from a year ago certainly those wage gains are good for workers but they're also a potential source of concern for the fed the fed is worried that employers may try to offset the cost of higher wages by raising prices and that would make inflation which is already at a four decade high even worse npr scott horsley a day after a sell-off the losses continue today we see the dow down more than half a percent more than 200 points of 32 800 won this is npr news good afternoon from the gbh radio newsroom in boston i'm henry santoro after a week away from schools for april vacation the department of elementary and secondary education has released new covid in the classroom numbers yesterday as they show more than 10 000 positive cases over 8 000 students have the virus and over 2 000 staff members tested positive this week and health officials say that's double the average of the past two weeks but and it's a pretty big but those weeks did not include the fact that it was in fact april vacation deci officials say the highest number of cases are in boston public schools followed by newton pittsfield worcester springfield and framingham and the clouds are showing up just in time for the weekend boo temperatures will drop back to the mid 50s today with a chance of scattered showers then rain will linger all weekend and the part in the thermometer won't move that much either tony gosher with the national weather service says that weather might start to clear on mother's day the day will trend drier as we head into the afternoon sunday afternoon though temperatures are still a bit on the cooler side slightly below average for early may with high temperatures about in the low to middle part of the 50s and if you're playing the long game right now the forecast shows that we could see 80 degrees by the end of next week everything will be blooming then in sports the bruins are hoping for a win tonight against the hurricanes the bees are down two games to none of the playoffs and the red sox open a weekend series with the chicago white sox of fenway tonight first pitch 7-10 boy would it be nice to win a series support for npr comes from npr stations other contributors include angie formerly angie's list dedicated to helping homeowners tackle home projects from everyday repairs to dream remodels reviews pricing and booking are at angie.com or on the angie app i'm henry santoro this is gbh news houston bradley i am marjory egan you are listening to our number two of boston public radio 897 gbh we are broadcasting live as we do every tuesday and friday from the boston public library i want to say one thing i was going to tell you that we're streaming on youtube but i'm not because if you choose youtube instead of getting down here as quickly as you can during the lunch break we had the metropolitan and gabrielle goodman their soloist and this incredible tap dancer rehearse for a couple of minutes i am telling you if you want a great lift on a friday of a very bad news week i would suggest you get down here 1 30 at latest for a spectacular half hour not that you're not going to be good callie i'm sure you're going to be uplifting too uplifting let me tell you she is in any case uh we're joined now by that bernie kelly gbh's kelly crossley here with reflections on a post row america and so much more cali of course is the host of under the radar with kelly crossover which you can catch sunday nights right here in 89 seven at six she's also the host of basic black sheriff's friday which is tonight at 7 30 on gbh2 kelly it's great to see you thanks so much for being here great to see you and marjorie yeah thank you very much callie so kelly you like me you were a young woman when robie wade when i'm silly young woman i don't know what you're saying all right we're still young women 1973 i was anxious to get your reaction to uh this leak uh from alito about the plans that the supreme court apparently has at this moment to overturn roe well i should begin by saying that this is the subject of my commentary on monday so they're about full of reaction but um first of all i don't believe that's the draft i think that's it yeah and um i would be surprised if there was even any minimal change to it so having said that i think it's been interesting watching a lot of very young women freak out like they've never lived at a time where they had to think about this um here are some statistics that just you know give me pause one in every four women have had an abortion their ages 15 to 44 and half of them are black and latino and so we're about to see some uh closing off of access and people forced underground now underground is going to look different than it did back in the day when people were literally going to back alleys but it's still going to go underground and you'll still end up with folks that perhaps don't have medical expertise to be helping you i think the other thing that is interesting to note that i didn't know until this came up is that half of the abortions of the the ones that we just said one in four women are getting are medical abortions and now they're trying to shut that down in various states which you know if the whole principle of this was founded on privacy you just can't get any more private than reaching into people's homes and mailboxes and all of that um having said all that i have been impressed in an interesting way by listening to uh some of the people on the um anti-choice side who are so delighted that this is happening and two uh comments stand out to me one by a woman she was just so happy she said this is gonna i'm i'm happy i'm waiting to welcome the babies um by these women who didn't really know that they wanted to have them at the level of naivete about the circumstances of these women is shockingly shocking and then to this morning i heard on npr a man say i've been praying for this and praying for this and um and so the reporter said you know with respect what do you say to uh about these women what's going to happen with these children that are born from a situation where women had no choice and he said i believe that you know someone will step up and provide see it can't be someone i have deep respect for a woman whose name i'm sorry i can't remember uh years ago who was virulently anti-choice and she set up a system to gather up these children that we're not going to be taken care of i'm not talking about adoption agencies i believe that that's high-end i think there's all kinds of kids that are going to be born that no one will take care of we've seen the result of that as it is yeah um and it's going to be horrific and then meanwhile all these people that are saying this they're not yelling at their representatives to support child care the extension of the this you know the child care extension act any of the stuff that would provide for the children that you so desperately believe need to be here or strengthen legislation to go after deadbeat fathers who don't give a dime to the support of the of the children and the women that they had created these children with you know i used to think that you know i've heard many many people say you know it comes down to people just hate women i used to think well that's kind of an extreme expression i am now thinking looking at this legislation which provides no exemption for women of um rape and incest you fundamentally have no idea what that emotional and physical impact of that woman would be you know none nor are you aware of the circumstances of women who with no choice have these children and they end up in the the pit of poverty and then you complain about now they're dragging on all our resources because they want to have some women and children um you know support from the government i mean this is ridiculous pick one and support it all the way through yeah who was the guest we had on the other day martin was a you that talked about how uh gorsuch alito kavanaugh thomas and uh and coney barrett live in a bubble i think it was chuck todd it was chuck thought yeah and and you know if you didn't i don't know what life is like well to be sort of just unfeeling i mean i'll repeat this again but it so stung me that amy coney barrett who is the mother of seven children had no conception about how difficult it is to give up a child for adoption like it was a cavalier thing so i'll carry this baby for nine months and then i'll give it up for adoption like it was no beaches that's what she said at her hearing that's what she said in her hearing and i thought how could you be lack basic empathy or not understand as someone who's given birth five times she adopted two of her own children it's given birth five times you have no understanding i mean and lower the point as a person who's adopted you understand you know how much it costs how much of the support is all the regulations all of that it's not something that people just you know wander into easily i mean it's it's just shocking to me on so many levels and and the low-income women and the the women of color who are caught in in this well it's mostly poor women that do have abortions and most of them are mothers right so they know exactly what it means to not be able to feed the two kids you already have or care for the two kids you already have or get a job with the two kids you already have and now you find yourself because birth control does fail right uh pregnant yet again and no you cannot take care of a third child and i want to be clear so i'm not misunderstood um i am not mocking anybody's faith you know because i am a faithful person but you know god helps those who help themselves you need to provide some support for backing up you know what you believe so sir you can't say somebody somebody somewhere is going to take care of it and what are you doing if you believe this is you know what needs to be done it's also important to say that catholicism which is often we have six catholic justices was okay with getting rid of pregnancies up until the so-called quickening right through 1859 when they changed their mind and the southern baptists were okay with abortion right through the 1970s they changed their mind after integration right because they figured oh talking about unborn babies would get them more support than talking about let's put have these poor little black kids stay in their integra their segregated schools i mean it was politics not some deep-seated faith that caused the southern baptist convention to change so to me there are some people of faith who sincerely are absolutely they're all about the unborn but i don't think that's the majority and i certainly don't think that's the political motivation here and i'm sorry i say i don't think so either and it's it's really it's it's sad and it's in its um these are real women's lives that are caught in the middle of this so i don't know i mean i am i am destroyed i'm interested to see what these young young women are doing i'm watching all these movements of quote-unquote underground stuff going on that's overground that are preparing um to help women who are going to be um trapped without access and massachusetts because we live here is going to be you know one of the points where women are coming well depending let's be clear in the interim they'll be where women are coming but if you talk to carol rose who we did the other day the head of civil liberties union former federal judge nancy gertner we spoke to the other day if a republican congress which it's likely to be unless people rise up as a result of this and the insurrection and other things and a republican president in 2025 decide to equate a fetus with personhood they believe there's at least a decent chance even the protections in a state like massachusetts fall to the federal decision so we shall see you know we're going to we decided when we were thinking about you today we're only going to do one more horrible story and then we're going to talk about some upbeat things uh i want to play for you i thought a beautiful moment from joe biden this is on the eve of his inauguration and at that time 400 000 people in this country had died from cope this was the ceremony i assume you all saw it i hope you saw it at the lincoln memorial reflecting pool this was obviously in january of 2021 here's biden to heal we must remember it's hard sometimes to remember but that's how we heal it's important to do that as a nation that's why we're here today between sundown and dusk let us shine the lights in the darkness along the sacred pool of reflection remember all when we lost well we haven't remembered always lost we have not uh uh done this as a nation it was 400 000 then it's a million in the next few days and i was struck by the fact despite the incredible pain this has caused millions of families thanks to the work of people like alex goldstein with the faces of cove with a brilliant uh twitter page that celebrates the lives of many people who are lost but obviously can't cover them all it's almost like this is a temporary blip on the screen and we have dr fauci with us talk about perfect timing on monday are you amazed how little acknowledgement of this unimaginable pain this country has given since biden gave that speech i am amazed i'm constantly amazed i think it feels like for a lot of people an out-of-body experience and it's one that they just have disconnected from i mean there are so many scenarios that that just keep me focused on how horrific it is but the one that comes to mind is a dear dear friend of mine whose mom got covet and you know they you know caring for her whatever she dies they're go in the middle of covet so they're having to do the only two people can come to the service you know all the horrible stuff that you had to do goes through all of that horrible enough you've lost your mother this was not supposed to happen all this happened and two weeks later her father gets it and then he dies oh i just have no words i sent her a note at the two year anniversary of this and said you know there's this will never be over for you and you know there are many many more examples of that but this just it just stays with me this is real i am shocked by the number of people who are still in hospitals i've seen the documentaries and the reports who are there about to take their last breath where nurses are and doctors are working around the clock for them and then say wow in that circumstance i will not take the vaccine and by the way we should add a million people have died by the way at least a million and a quarter people have died obviously a million or the reported cases and congress can't pass a bill to fund whatever is needed now and the beginning of prevention for what is inevitably to come next in any case we're going to move to a positive thing here's a little sound from the state senate yesterday this is as the senate by a veto proof majority passed a bill uh granting driver's licenses under certain limited conditions to people who are here undocumented here's the announcement 32 members having voted in the affirmative eight in the negative the bill is passed to be english and it also passed it also passed in the house by veto proof majority so even though the governor told us like several weeks ago and said repeat again yesterday he wasn't convinced there was enough protection against this being a vehicle to allow them to register to vote which i don't believe it is and the sponsors don't believe it is apparently he's going to veto the veto be overridden but i have one question on this advocates for choice including marjorie and me went out of her way to cite the polling that shows that 69 of americans uh didn't want this to happen that the supreme court is yet again out of step with the typical american i'm sure you saw the poll this week massachusetts is split down the middle 46 in favor of granting these licenses 47 against so how do you respond uh to if we were taking calls today someone would call and i respect that call saying well you're trumpeting the supreme court should do what the people want the people in massachusetts don't want this at least the majority how do you respond to that point of view well if people are aware of of what the the bill actually says it's it's really foundational for a lot of people here who are done undocumented who are working okay so people may know the statistics about the undocumented and the immigrants who are holding up our economy it's a lot of people that's that's so we're all resting on the economy that these people are working for and so the question is do you want them to get to the job or not i mean that's really well and you're benefiting from their work this is exactly what you know a big basis of this bill was all about is that they're trying to work the other thing is now we have all the law enforcement people who've come around and said i don't want to be going to these the sites of these accidents because people were too afraid to to go get um driver's license and driver's training because they're undocumented so there are ways that the bills they have to reconcile some of the details of it not only know who the people are they have to present certain kinds of documentation you just can't walk up and do that and you know there are folks who are on the front lines involved more than the rest of us with people who may be in these circumstances who are saying it's both a safety issue for all of us and a reality for us to respond to so that is all i can say what i would say is that probably most people don't know the details of the bill because if you're just looking at it as a you know and you don't know it and you're like okay so we're now giving a lice dress willy-nilly giving driver's license what's next to undocumented do i have anything as a citizen you know what do i get as membership you know has its privileges as american express used to say well yeah what am i supposed to be able to get out of that they they don't have to be documented i mean that's a question that has to be answered so they are attempting to answer all of that by the details of the bill by the limitations of the bill by the boundaries of it and there you have it um governor baker is saying that he doesn't want because we have a state in which if you have a driver's license be used to register to vote to make certain that those protections are in place other folks who are working in that arena say they are and they will be strengthened by this so that's how you respond to it um and i wonder if this is a situation that reminds me of it feels like a long time ago but it wasn't when we started talking about supporting gay marriage and the divisions and how people felt about it and then at least a year later you go back and you all the people who are like oh it's gonna you know hell raining it's over we're dead we're doing you know that didn't happen so nothing's going to change some people's minds until they you know have lived with it for a time but i don't think you know um unless there is a racist tinge to it i don't think that people saying hey as a citizen i should have more benefits than people who do not who are not citizens i mean you have to hear that that's a that's a real thing we're talking to the incredibly color-coordinated color crosstalk how about that ring i have never seen you should hold that ring up so people can see that isn't that amazing that is one impression thank you i go out of the public i try to uh as opposed to some of this you mean thank you it's so i didn't say that but jim looks fetching today okay fine i think he changed his t-shirt from yesterday i did change yeah very nice um the new white house press secretary first black woman first openly lgbtq person she's going to replace jen saki i think jen saki's going on cnn or something no msnbc i don't know if it's 100 clear it's pretty close to 100 she might have been going to cnn plus but as we know nobody's going to cnn plus so uh what do you know about this corrine jean-pierre she's been around a while if people um what was the and i just can't remember it was on the move some no the the grassroots organization advocacy group move on thank you move on dot org she was often a spokesperson for my daughter yes so i've you know if you think about it you probably saw her more than imagine and she was very good at you know articulating the position of whatever the organization was was supporting at that time so i mean she has all the requisite skills she's very smart um i i also know that you know her partner is suzanne malveaux of cnn i don't even know that yes they have a daughter they live in d.c that's been you know it's a long-term relationship wasn't she what was she a congresswoman or something no no she's a white house journalist yeah oh that's why i know her name okay okay that's why i know it um and um anyway so you know that's so she's pretty much it'll be interesting because i think the worst thing that could happen to her is be compared to jen saki who's just like you know whip back to the you know and she's taking some rhythm that's a hard job that's a hard job especially when you make yourself available every day yeah which is what sake did and by the way the trump administration people did in the beginning until they're embarrassed and is it guys you know there's nothing that joe biden can do right in the eyes of the american people every single thing he does gets 30 the economy's atrocious even though the great job numbers again today the one legacy who knows what's going to happen in the next two years and what he does after that he didn't just talk the talk about putting people of color gay and lesbian people trans people in positions of power this guy has delivered big time on that promise and this is yet another example of him honoring his commitment and i i think changing the country because well i would i would underscore that and say that you know for all the people who are saying this is just another woke and by the way people who are still saying that you're behind so stop it but um this is just enough this is another woke gesture don't really understand the impact of having somebody in the position you know where it becomes an ordinary situation and you just you become accustomed to it which you should because it should be and that takes on a whole other weight that you just can't even um those of us who often have not been in those positions can quantify but many people can't so the impact of that you know if he did nothing else just to have put people in place where they are interacting with folks who for the first time are seeing and normalizing remember all those kids um that parents said the only president they ever knew was barack obama and the parents had to say well that's not really actually what's been normal yeah you know yeah and and seeing them in the white house i mean you had all these black families talking about that was a transformational woman speaking of uh of first we have a little sound here actually uh from the first black woman to serve on the international space station jessica watkins is she talking about the legacy of black women in space here she is i think it really is just a tribute to the legacy of the black women astronauts that have come before me as well as to the exciting future ahead okay quick reflection if we can kelly on uh oh well i mean this is amazing here's the number that just stands out out of 248 astronauts who have visited the space station only seven have been black um i mean i just know the names of you know a few who were pioneers of course that's geon uh bluford but mae jemison of course for is just fabulous i have to give credit to my the other sorority that made jemison as a part of not mine a little bit i think it really does those numbers yes yeah so what time what do you give on a sunday night it's a whole hour really about looking at you know sustainability and and preservation the first piece is about eco villages these are very deliberate communities that come together built on the foundation of living in a communal space but also everything is built in to foster and sustain sustainable living it's really quite interesting um and we have you know some local communities here in massachusetts that we're talking to folks who are living there it's quite fascinating people are excited about it and the second is this app that got started in europe called too good to go um we've heard a number like loving spoonfuls love them there are so many other so many other places where they're trying to preserve food that gets wasted this is at a very different level this is like at a ground level um and so they partner with like food convenience stores and small restaurants anti-waste so at the end of the day those places assess what they have that's too good to go and package it and you they resell it for an extremely low amount of money so like imagine 12 really good bagels for four bucks um you know that kind of stuff and it's just become very very popular in boston they expanded to boston not long ago and um so those two pieces together there are ways to tackle some of this we just got to keep kept keep looking and and trying to find them it's great to see you as always thank you so much holly crossing this host of under the radar with charlie crosstalk if you can catch sunday nights right here in 89 seven at six o'clock she also hosts basic black which you can catch tonight 7 30 on gbh2 or the gbh youtube channel thank you very much callie coming up journalist and naturalist sign montgomery joins us to share her encounters this is an incredible story with birds of prey from her new book the hawks way encounters with fierce beauty son montgomery is next you listen to 897 gbh live from the boston public library [Music] emergency pandemic rental aid is starting to run out in cities around the country and people are having to make really tough decisions our tenants are having to decide between buying food for their children or their elderly parents or paying rent and that's a real tight squeeze why evictions are up sharply this afternoon on all things considered from npr news today at four here on gbh news 89 7. our programs are made possible thanks to you and legal seafoods you can celebrate mother's day at legal seafoods and dine on dishes like their baked stuffed lobster location information and reservations at legalseafoods.com if it isn't fresh it isn't legal and newberry court a full-service residential community in concord massachusetts for person 62 or over committed to creating an active independent lifestyle more at newburycourt.org or [Music] public 978-369-5155 coming up in about 25 minutes former chief justice of the state supreme judicial court margaret marshall who obviously wrote the decision on gay marriage we're going to talk to her about that and whether it's at risk as well because of the abortion decision a little bit later the metropolitan chorale is going to perform live here and they are spectacular but first a single mistake handling a raptor journalist the natural assigned montgomery writes even one you know well may provoke it to bite you stab its talons in your flesh or both sounds good to me that's our new fabulous book out this week it's called the hawks way encounters with fierce beauty here to tell us about these dangerous and beautiful living dinosaurs is sign montgomery science obviously a journalist naturalist new york times best-selling author bpr contributor two other things i will say about her we've been talking to you for years i think we've met you once ever yeah in person here she is we are so happy she is and secondly secondly we know she's thrilled because she's a great author to be at the library but i know it's disappointing you are not at a library that had to say peeps diorama like your hometown library in hancock is that upsetting to you simon no it is not at all but it is my pleasure to present to both of you um not the key to the city because we don't have a city and we don't have any keys because our doors are always open but um you can be honorary uh residents of houston we've got hancock new hampshire population 1700 come to our hancock market um and there you will meet everybody who hangs out can we hear it for that we didn't thank you simon and thanks to the people of hancock for their generosity your latest book i mean you've written so many great books but this latest one i i think a lot of us i didn't know anything about falconing on this one harry potter i think there was some falconing in harry potter or something so tell us how you got involved with these hawks for your friend uh nancy cowan if i'm pronouncing it correctly my husband howard mansfield heard an advertisement on the radio and i think 2005 that a new school was opening up endearing new hampshire not far from us in hancock and it was the new hampshire school of falconry and he knew right away that i had to to go there in fact i was nancy's first student and i brought with me my friend celina jakoyne and it was the most amazing experience we meet her she spoke with us a little bit about falconry and handed us each a bird of prey i had on my glove jazz a gorgeous harris's hawk big big animal um mahogany eyes that looked like they were devouring the world and great strong yellow feet tipped and ebony talons zalinda had a lantern falcon and my instructor chose a peregrine falcon who within the first five minutes of our meeting bit her in the face she we're walking down the street three middle-aged ladies holding these birds of prey one of them bleeding profusely onto the sidewalk and the next thing we know someone pulls up hands nancy a dead bird from the back seat which i thought she was going to feed to the to the hawks but was going to eat for dinner and i thought what have i gotten myself into what is this but you know i'm i'm i've been a vegetarian for like 40 years and if i see a squirrel hit on the road i'm like sick for the rest of the day but i was working with hunters these birds are hunters and once i looked into the eyes of this gorgeous majestic creature i felt like i was holding on my glove wildness itself and i wanted what that bird wanted and in that way i had hoped that i could become a worthy junior hunting partner you know sign montgomery we have talked to you about many of your incredible relationships with uh uh animals i mean is octavia was the name of the octopus i always yeah octavia the soul of the octopus is one of the great inter-species books ever and octavia was the octopus you had the relationship with essentially is that okay we were good friends you were good well you're good friends and the tactile connection between you and i mean just i've never read like this in my whole life you make clear in your book this is unlike the relationship between human you and hawk or any human and hawk is unlike any you've ever experienced and loved but you love this so describe that relationship which as you say is not reciprocal in lots of ways and why this is okay with you and why you loved it not just okay with you yeah well i've i've had a lot of animal friends including octopus and usually through gentle touch you can become good friends with these creatures i mean pigs and dogs and um even i got a rhinoceros to run over uh roll over once by touching i mean it wasn't it was somebody's rhinoceros it wasn't like a wild rhinoceros don't try this at home but um but a hawk is totally different and it was more alien to me i think than than even an octopus even though we're more closely related to birds um who are the descendants of the theropod dinosaurs and then we are to octopuses because we go back our last common ancestor with an octopus is half a billion years ago when everybody was a tube so um when i meet a new animal um i'm just open to whatever it is that they want they do not want to be touched they do not want to be stroked so right away the normal way that you kind of get to know somebody once that you've convinced them that you're not going to hurt them normally the way you get someone like that to know you is through touch but they don't want that they want something totally different they want something totally different from what i want they want to chase and capture and kill and eat prey that is the thing that they love to do and they want you to help facilitate that behavior do they right otherwise you have very little to offer them so and why i want to know why i want to know once i want to know why that's satisfying to you when there isn't the reciprocity and then you have to tell us what you did to the rhinoceros to get it to roll over i'm afraid to ask but uh why is that satisfying to you well to me so many of the other relationships that we have with with people and animals um is sort of transactional you know um the greeks had four different kinds of they named four different kinds of love and one was filios from which we get the word philanthropy the friendship love and you expect reciprocity from your friends and arrows is you know the romantic love when you expect your husband or spouse or partner to love you back and storage our children we expect them to love us and they expect us to love them back but agape the highest form of love that the greeks identified is the kind of love that um in the bible we feel for the creator and the creator feels for us it's not res it's it's not reciprocal it's not transactional in unless you know oh lord won't you buy me a mercedes-benz but um that kind of love is tremendously freeing to experience that kind of love to love a hawk simply for being wildness to love it like you love um a lightning storm or a waterfall to love it like you love the ocean or a sunset just because it's there and it doesn't have to give you anything just being in its presence is a blessing and that's when i feel with a hawk on my arm we're talking to sai montgomery her latest is the hawks way encounters with fierce beauty so you talk about being the hunting partner of the hawk and how you have the heavy mitt on and the hawk lands on your arm why why does the hawk need a hunting partner and why does the hawk stay on your arm well it doesn't desperately need you as a hunting partner some some species of hawks do hunt with fellow hawks that harris hawk the species that that i write about the most who i knew the best um one of whom lives on our street by the way we have we have a harris hawk living with my my friend falconer henry walters right on our street they do hunt cooperatively but if you can demonstrate that i might be able to scare up some game when i'm walking through the understory i might make a little vole dart out and the hawk who is now perched in a tree knows that i can be of use to to to them then they will be interested in you and the same thing with dogs most hawks would not like a dog in fact they'll scream at a dog like i hate you i hate to stand in the in the tree and just hurl abuse of the dog but if the dog has had an opportunity to point to game and if the hawk sees like oh that that dog is pointing out something useful to me it goes into the file folder in their brain hunting success hunting success and now they're not going to scream at that hawk anymore now i mean not that dog anymore they are going to watch that dog and they'll learn it really fast so i want to add a third question to marjorie's list about when the hawk uh lights on you what is that glove called there's a name for it isn't that was their name for the globe gloves or falcon wrinkles that was my third question thank you for humiliating me i'm kidding the third question is when it like when you had that first experience with jazz and it's on your arm why didn't didn't it i mean this is why didn't it eat your face i mean why does the hawk decide until it gets to know if you're of use to it or somebody is you or him or her as you would call the i'm sure the hawk why doesn't it attack you i don't i don't get that part well sometimes they do that yeah but why don't they in all cases since they don't know to that you're as i say of value to them well when you start um your relationship with the hawk you can offer it food on your glove and it'll come to you it'll come to your glove um to my horror this the food is often like baby dead chicks cut up and you know some of my friends and family have been chickens i've raised them in my office sitting in my sweater and i really had to get over this you know these are these frozen dead baby chicks and they're cutting their heads off and it was very hard to get get past that but my my desire to be near the hawk and to learn from it was was so strong i could get past the disgust and and horror of the decapitated chicks but explain to i mean you mentioned one of your neighbors is a falconer so the hawks fly away to get their prey and then they come back so obviously they have some kind of relationship with the person that's the owner so talk a little bit about that well the hawk if if you've been able to show them that you're a worthy hunting partner and that you can be trusted right before they've had all they want to eat you try to figure out like when should i call it out of the sky to my glove and you call it out of the sky to your glove with a bit of food oh you you whistle or you can just sometimes you can just slap the glove okay um hold up a chicken well you have a tiny bit of a chicken their eyes are amazing i mean they can see this from very far away their eyes are twice the size of their brain i know that is well let's get to that yeah i couldn't get over that but go ahead so they can see like the little chick head even if they're you know hundreds of feet away they see that you're holding something delicious and so they'll they'll come to you and um they have little anklets on them called justice and so if the hawk has is done hunting or you're done with a training session you can hook them up to the dresses and then bring them bring them back to the house but you know if you make a mistake or if your hawk just decides you're useless or if your hawk decides something is more interesting than you they can fly away they are so not your pet they are so not under your control at all but when they live with the neighbor where do they live um at night they sleep in a an aviary called a muse okay and they're safe there from uh raptors you know like owls who might want to eat them and and warm um and in the morning he comes and and feeds mahud um and and they go out hunting together and they do this several every day several times a week i think whenever they whenever they can yeah the thing about the harris hawk is they're a southwestern species so they really hate snow and no one likes to fly in the rain yeah so you know if it's raining if it's snowing you know they don't at least power sox don't want to go anywhere so they're just hanging out at home so i'm sorry go ahead simon there are beautiful photographs in this book too by the way who took the photographs beautiful t is drawn back my friend she's like four inches away i know let's talk right actually well actually even closer my favorite photograph is a beautiful profile of your now late friend unfortunately to whom you dedicate the book nancy cowan with this with this hawk on her left shoulder it's a beautiful profile of both but the takeaway from me is what you just mentioned i couldn't take my eyes off the eyes of these hawks first of all when you said a minute ago uh sai montgomery that their eyes are twice the size of their brains you mean that literally yes yes correct yes so you can extrapolate if that was in a human being it'd be like the size of a watermelon or whatever yeah we would have eyes if our eyes were bigger say an owls our eyes would be the size of oranges that's incredible so describe the eye of the hawk and obviously how valuable it is to it in doing what it does which is be a predator a hunter yeah they um because they're flying creatures your eyes need to apprehend your environment in greater detail and more rapidly than our eyes do and we're primates so we we care a lot about our vision right you know and our other senses are relatively weak we can hear okay our sense of smell is terrible but compared to a raptor we are mr magoo they can be hundreds thousands of feet in the air and see over an area of like two miles in exquisite detail and they probably see colors we can't even name the numbers of receptors they have like a million um light receptors in their eyes we have something like 200 000. um so what they see like when when we from an airplane look down and we see broccoli you know when we see trees it just looks like a bunch of broccoli to them they can see each individual leaf and probably in colors that we cannot describe and they can also see with great rapidity so a hummingbird's wing which looks like a blur to us they see slow individual wing beats oh my god your last book was on hummingbird speaking what was the name of the hummingbird book or people that was it a hummingbird's gift that was a beautiful book so so if if we see a hawk somewhere you know we're out with our little dogs we should be keep our eye on the little dog and the hawk yeah particularly um the first i think the first prey item that the peregrine falcons left let uh hunted when they were reintroduced to new york city was unfortunately a chihuahua and not a pigeon so yeah little dogs if you see a parent overhead i would take your dog in but you know what um our uh border collie was hunted although not attacked by a great horned owl a border collie a pretty good sized dog i know 40 pound well actually that was tess so she was more like 30 pounds but um great hornells hunts skunks and she was black and white because she was a border collie and my husband was out and he saw this like thing like a giant cinder float out of nowhere while he was taking tess out in the evening and it swooped down and you could they all thought you know that looks like a delicious go no it's not a skunk and it left wow wow i don't think i'll be going to hancock anytime the honor that was bestowed on us slime montgomery i'll tell you i mean this is pretty unusual stuff though i mean i'd never like i said except for the harry potter things i i'd heard of you know falconers but i mean i didn't really know they were existing up there in new hampshire or anyplace else well it's because of nancy that the new hampshire school of falconry was was founded and who goes to the new hampshire school of falcon well right now alas since since she died um the the school is going to move somewhere to massachusetts and one of one of her apprentices is going to be able to practice you know teach people falconry there um but gosh it was i was so lucky to be her first student and i was so lucky to keep coming back and back and back and i would bring friends of mine friends of mine from the aquarium would come and it's just the most amazing thing to see this this living dinosaur come flying toward you on purpose to land on your glove and to eat your face i ask you this almost all the time when we're talking about some wild skin are you not scared i know you love everything that is breathing and living we're not going to ask you about the rats we were talking about yesterday because i know you love them too are you not petrified when this damn uh bird is flying down to your glove that you're holding up with little food that you're its next food you're not nervous about that i am petrified oh you are a cocktail party with humans of course so how how heavy are these birds when they land on your on your forearm they're pretty heavy well you'd think that you feel them i mean actually smack onto your glove with their big claws right and you feel the squeeze but it's not from their weight so much as from the velocity yeah that they're coming at you so you could be knocked right over well i mean i don't i don't think i'd be knocked over because i was ready i was ready for it but i understand why people some people would not be happy to see a raptor coming closer well yeah um our kind our ancestors the australopithecines um when you and i were in college we probably i'm sure you've heard of raymond dart's discovery of the tong child which was a young hominid who they thought was killed by a leopard when we were in college but then that fossil has been re-examined it was not killed by a leopard it was killed by a huge hawk [Music] what'd you do to the right now i'm totally serious about this what is the rhinoceros way like three thousand pounds they're big animals yeah so first of all i assume everything you say i take it facebook you literally got it to roll over and it's back i did what did you do to the rhinoceros well first i do want to reiterate this wasn't a wild rhinoceros i i used the technique that um worked on my pig christopher hogwart and will work on people if you know them well enough okay you rub their inguinal region excuse me what's that i don't know about it it's kind of um where your legs join your belly not all the way under there because you're not getting that from here no no but um they they like being rubbed there and they just flip over in poor sign bliss like a dog yes like a dog like a pig i mean everyone seems to like that even can i tell you something margie and i were talking this you are amazing i mean not only your relationship with other species but this book is so terrific and gives such insight in ways that i couldn't even imagine you're amazing sign it's great to see you in person yeah thank you very very much thank you for watching our t-shirts i'm very happy about that sam montgomery's journalist naturalist and boston public radio contributor her latest book is the hawks way encounters with fierce beauty and she's written so many terrific books which you will enjoy thank you again simon next time you're here if you uh in person if you could bring that uh domesticated rhinoceros oh sure yeah and do it we'd love to see the technique say it's great to see you okay coming up we're going to talk about the people absolutely we're going to talk to former massachusetts supreme court judicial court chief justice margaret marshall on what the road decision could mean for us here in the commonwealth and of course you may have heard her name many times before because she was on the massachusetts premier district court when gay marriage was passed listening to boston public radio 897 gbh she wrote [Music] may is finally here which means it's time to throw on the short shorts get outside and live it up i'm james bennett ii from the gbh news culture desk bringing you the drop a monthly roundup of the can't miss stuff in boston we're talking a benefit for ukraine relief concert presented by the boston philharmonic and decidedly sauced shakespeare discover all that and more with the drum available now at gbhnews.org the drop support for our programs comes from you and the office of the massachusetts state treasurer the unclaimed property division is holding unclaimed funds for the citizens and businesses of the commonwealth you can see if you have unclaimed money at findmassmoney.com and sunbug solar offering solar and battery storage renewable energy solutions for your home or business to learn how you can build a more resilient future you can visit sunbug solar dot com trusted local news this is 89 7 wgbh wgbh hd1 boston online at gbhnews.org boston's local npr [Music] welcome back to boston public radio i am jim browdy she is madriga and we are at the boy whoops boston public library turn on your video gym as we continue to try to make sense of the supreme court's draft decision and many people think essentially its final decision on roe v wade and abortion in america it's clear the implications may be big for many things women's rights reproductive rights and beyond what other seemingly several rights could fall joining us now online is the former chief justice of the massachusetts supreme judicial court as you know almost two decades ago she wrote the decision embracing gay marriage here in massachusetts i have to say one of our favorite guests through the years chief justice marshall margaret marshall it's great to see you as always thanks so much thank you jim and marjorie it's great to be back again yes thank you very much for joining us jim you have to turn your zoom camera around because no one can see it oh sorry about that okay so there he is there he is so justice marshall um tell us what you make of the alito leaked opinion about roe v wade i had two initial reactions the first was stunned that a draft opinion had been leaked it just doesn't happen and so i immediately had empathy for chief justice roberts because the chief justice does not want anything like this ever to land on his or her desk and the second was as i started reading the draft opinion i was shocked at the language that justice alito is using um there are many ways that one can write an opinion but particularly when a justice knows that an opinion will be deeply divisive to large parts of our nation whichever side it is at least it has been my practice and i think on the supreme judicial corps some of our most controversial decisions one attempts to pay respect to the other side but you know um roe was egregiously wrong from the beginning yeah well you may not just you may not agree with [Music] the reasoning of the opinion but it clearly wasn't egregiously wrong from the beginning those are terms that we have used only with some of the great mistakes that the court has made the zlat scott decision the plessy against ferguson saying on racial issues separate is equal not separate is unequal the decision upholding the internment of japanese citizens in the united states i mean those are egregious from the beginning this was not an egregious from the beginning so that was number one number two two of the justices of course who i respect a great deal were justice luther ginsburg and justice sansa day oh con sansa de connect o'connor and it seemed to me that justice alito was almost singling out his anger his vitriol um at not only justice ginsburg because of what she had said about the royal opinion but justice o'connor and planned parenthood against casey which was a later decision which in some respects attempted to flesh out in a different kind of way the reasoning behind well against wade and so i was left with a feeling about why is this man so angry and why is he spewing his vitriol you know across this nation it seemed to me the least kind of thing that i would have expected uh in a justice who had been assigned to write a pretty controversial decision now this is assuming i mean we now know from chief justice roberts that this is authentic i assume when he used that term he meant authentic in the sense that justice alito had written it of course it's not the final product you know draft opinions go through many many many drafts um and i don't know why or by whom it was leaked of course but even an initial draft this is unusual in my estimation you know i'm sorry i just want to i'm so glad you mentioned alito's seeming anger and the and the almost rage you could feel coming through the opinion and his lack of concern for the other side i just want to read a brief excerpt from what you wrote in 2003 about legalizing same-sex marriage which i thought was beautiful you said marriage is a vital social institution the exclusive commitment of two individuals to each other to it nurtures love mutual support it brings stability to our society it fulfills yearnings for security safe haven and connection that express our common humanity that's what you wrote about marriage in a beautiful way and with none of that kind of rage that i felt anyway coming from justice alito i think marginally in addition to that i you know i don't go back and read my opinions over and over again they're not what puts me to sleep every night you should they're pretty good margaret marshall trust me we have gone back and read them thank you um but one of the things that i think i've tried to do even in the goodreads decision and in other decisions is to say we recognize that they are different views on this right i mean there's a recognition that's there were many people who found um you know same-sex marriage unacceptable i mean there was a recognition and i have to say that um and i don't think i'm i'm revealing any confidences of the court the justices my the justices on who were in dissent uh the justices justice granny who joined me in a concurrence i think we worked very hard to make make sure that we were explaining to the people of massachusetts the legal basis for our disagreement there were no ad hominem ahead of term attacks there were no personal attacks um at least i hope they weren't and i i don't think that anybody has ever held up either my decision or justice hussman or justice cordy and said look at this language you know who are these people i i think it does such a great disservice i mean i revere the courts i revere the united states system of the rule of law it is a constitutional system that has worked with i mean with some major problems but we are the longest lived democracy anywhere ever i think in order to retain that democracy you have to have a reasonableness a kind of reasoned judgment we are not thugs duking it out in the public square well with all the respect justice marshall i think we are thugs duking it out in the public square we have an insurrectionist uh party that appears primed to take control with the votes of the american people of the house and the senate that same party and with respect to justice roberts has eviscerated voting rights and it's getting worse in the states and now this overturning of a fundamental right for women is is that not thug-like behavior in a teetering democracy to you justice marshall i stand corrected i was thinking about the 200 years you know and again if you're looking at from the point of view of african americans they would say there was thuggery from the beginning and so perhaps i was choosing my words and correctly but there were moments i mean long moments um where i think we have tried to reach accommodation with each other try to listen to both sides at least that's what i was taught in law school in fact one of the you know one of the ways you get taught as a lawyer is what is the best argument on the other side i mean you're always trying to listen to the other side trying to be respectful and i do agree with you as you know i come from south africa and i am deeply deeply disturbed at what is happening in this country i've always felt um you know so welcomed and so respected and so embraced by the united states as i have embraced the united states i mean it's it's been wonderful to me and i'm a very proud citizen i am very worried i'm worried about hate speech i i'm genuinely worried about hate speech because i know what hate speech leads to i'm genuinely worried about the attacks um on judges i'm genuinely worried i am profoundly and deeply worried about the attempts to remove citizens from the voter rolls i think that is an outrageous development i think it was heather cox richardson who said you know we're now having justices appointed from a minority of a minority of minority and again getting back to justice leader to say well of course you know women can now vote and everybody can go and vote and we can going to work this out uh in the voting field as opposed to judicial field when we know that there are serious attempts in this country to take away the vote i mean not only from african americans but you know from to kind to strengthen one political party the republican party to make it almost impossible to have a bipartisan system and by the way while i'm thinking about it i think one of the challenges that we have is that for so long i think we have taken democracy and what it takes to keep a democracy going for granted and i felt that particularly working in the state courts through my work as chief justice i had an opportunity to meet chief justices from many states from all 50 states and our territories guam and the united states virgin island puerto rico and so on and i can say i cannot i could almost feel it in my lifetime in 1999 when i became chief justice and i met for the first time the chief justices from other states some of whom were elected after very expensive campaigns like texas and some of them were elected in iowa or wisconsin i mean massachusetts is one of the few places that doesn't have elected judges and i would say that by and large judicial elections were rather routine affairs and i had many of those chief justices telling me that they actually approved of being elected i don't think any of the elected justices today would say that they have become so partisan so vitriolic so um awful and a lot of that i lay at the feet of the united states supreme court why because in all states we used to have something called a judicial code of ethics very important code of ethics that essentially said justices couldn't sit on cases where they had their wives involved in front of them justices even in elections couldn't say vote for me and i guarantee i will not uphold abortion or vote for me and i will never set aside a death penalty or vote for me and i will never allow gay marriage you were not allowed to do that there was a challenge to those codes of judicial ethics and the united states supreme court in a blistering opinion by justice scalia said oh we've got the first amendment if you're going to have elections you're allowed to say anything and so now in state of after state after state um justices judges when they're running for election including sitting judges are allowed to say whatever they want to say whatever they want to say fortunately you can't do that in massachusetts you know that is funny i'm sorry go ahead jeff yeah just endlessly and we love when you do by the way to show up times have changed for people who are not familiar with the history of uh justice marshall's ascension uh nominated to the court by a republican nominated for elevation of chief justice by another republican governor so i want to talk to you about the something else alito said in his decision he went out of his way to say i'm applying this this uh uh approach of mine and my four colleagues i'm paraphrasing obviously to unenumerated rights that only relates to the matter before us uh and uh theoretically saying to people not overtly but i guess indirectly this has nothing to do with other quote unenumerated rights a lot of people think that the reasoning that alito uses in this case justice marshall is the same reasoning this same group of five will use to ultimately overrule something like obergefell the obviously supreme court's decision long after yours on same-sex marriage do you think the way this decision is written assuming this is what ends up being the opinion come june does open the door to attack the right to contraception the right to marry whoever you love regardless of their gender are they all at risk yes and i'll tell you why one what he's when the united states supreme court in particular but any court says this is a one-off this is a one-off it you know we've got just this one and it won't be repeated anyway it is never a one-off bush against score if you go back and read those opinions the one that essentially handed the opinion to president bush all over those opinions this is a one-off this is a one-off it is not a one-off federal courts were really not involved believe it or not in an election state and federal elections so if um you know if catherine clark challenged something before bush against court would end up in the supreme judicial court catherine clark being my uh congressional representative my congressional representative would not end up in the supreme court in the supreme court would end up in the supreme judicial court since bush against court there's been tons of cases brought in the federal courts challenging how a state is running its voting so first number one do never believe when a judge says this is a one-off because we work on a system of precedence believe it or not second it's the reasoning of the court it is not what's what's the particular issue it's justice alito's reasoning and when he says um any such right that we recognize quote must be deeply rooted in this nation's history and tradition and implicit in the concept of ordered liberty all kinds of things are not deeply rooted in our nation's history and traditions let me say this as simply as i can one of the marvels one of the most impressive aspects of democracy in the united states is that the legions of people who were excluded who didn't have the right to vote who were not included in the constitutional negotiations who did not attend anything in philadelphia or boston or richmond or any place else who were not in the drafting group who were trying to push their way through as abigail adams did you remember her famous phrase remember the ladies well they certainly did not remember the ladies that was for sure um and over you know more than two centuries through hard work through lobbying through gumshoe work through talking on talk radio wonderful talk radios like this little by little by little excluded groups have pushed their way through precisely because they were not part of the deeply rooted traditions and so when justice alito uses that phrase it essentially in one sentence wipes out everything that we have achieved let you know i remind people that when i decided the same sex marriage case the united states had tossed that aside 50 years before a couple the same-sex couple claimed that they brought a case saying they wanted to marry each other they've actually went to united states supreme court people forget this and in a one sentence i mean the united states just dismissed it well that community of people who didn't have access to marriage kept on going kept on going for 50 years and believe me gay marriage was not deeply rooted in anything the fact that women did not lose all of their property when they married that was the deeply rooted in our tradition in history fortunately now when one marries a woman now he's a man you don't lose i don't lose all of my property i don't have to have the first house i bought in boston you know some 50 years ago i remember my wonderful lawyer who subsequently became a judge saying you know i can't just do it in the name of margaret marshall you have to use your husband's name i said i never used my husband's name he said well i just think in an abundance of coercion you better use your hand i mean we've come a long way you know i stand on the shoulders of generations of women generations of women and for a justice of the supreme court to say you know we're not going to recognize any rights that are not deeply rooted in our traditions in history i can't imagine what that feels like to african americans or to or to women i mean i feel it intensely as a woman so yes i am troubled now um one of the i think justice alito said this or perhaps it's a commentator has said well of course you know things like gay marriage they're so popular now well depending on how you ask the question we know that a vast majority of american people want to have access to some form of abortion if you ask the question do you think there should be abortion in any circumstances the answer is no for a lot of people in other words you can't go in at eight and a half months and say i want to have an abortion and so over time i think the court has tried to wrestle with um you know how to recognize um the deeply personal dignity of a woman who's pregnant at the same time recognizing at some point the rights of a fetus those are not easy decisions but most of what we think of of countries that are like ours in the sense that they're democratic countries you know have recognized abortion including the most conservative ones island most recently which surely must say something at least in boston when so many people in boston have either uh immediately came from ireland or have their parents grandparents great catholics great great parents coming from ireland again one the issue here is not can the state force me to have an abortion this may be very personal jim but i think you and marjorie know that i couldn't have children now you'd be surprised how many people assumed that i didn't want to have children or i must have had abortion i couldn't have children and yet i understand in some deep level that had i been pregnant i do not want the state telling me what to do i don't want the state telling me with whom i can share my life i mean i think that's where we should be one last point if i can of course yes you can cut me off this is this is something that i say to people there the united states was the only constitutional court from 1780 but beginning with massachusetts or 1787 beginning with the united states and a constitutional democracy in the sense that judges who were not elected could set aside uh laws enacted by the jury rep julian elected representatives of you know who passed a law that began to change first changed in germany 1948 was the first country that that moved to a constitutional democracy for obvious reasons many of the things that happened during the hitler regime had been passed through the german parliament but then by the end of the 20th century really every new country certainly south africa for example and many old countries like canada adopted a constitutional form of democracy now these constitutions differ but they basically in terms of the basic rights they're very similar right um to freedom of the place freedom of religion freedom of association you know the rights ones that we recognize they differ in two major respects almost everyone nobody has a right to bear arms just not in these new constitutions and almost every if not every new constitution has an explicit right to privacy now that presents a challenge for judges in the united states there are many people who suggest that the fourth amendment and the right not to have your home searched of papers you know having the british soldiers you know beat their way through the door and take rifle through your papers was a protection right to privacy but i think we could also understand that the developments of the inclusiveness of either government on technology have changed that reality and somehow american courts have to deal with that there is not an explicit right to privacy in the sense it is in other contemporary constitutions can we deal with that of course we can deal with it we've dealt with it for decades for decades not only in sort of you know who you marry and who you live with them but in a whole variety of circumstances we recognize that there's some the right to be left alone there's some area where the state should not have the right to intervene you convinced us justice marshall and it's wonderful to see you and speak to you again can't thank you enough for your time thank you sir and i have to say i was listening to your wonderful interview with say montgomery i'm a great uh you know great fan of hers and it was just wonderful to hear her talking to you as well it was a little tough for me to follow her because to go from i think you did it quite well just this morning margaret marshall thank you so much for being with us we really really appreciate it that was of course margaret marshall's changed the world massachusetts supreme judicial court chief justice who wrote the landmark decision in 2004 allowing gay marriage in massachusetts the first in the country and we're very very grateful for your time justice thank you so much for being with us coming up we have a real treat coming up we are going to have a live performance here from the metropolitan corral ahead of their show next week of duke ellington's sacred concert we're going to hear some incredible music and some incredible tap dancing that is next on boston public radio 897 gbh [Music] um hi john all right so i'm gonna start tapping on microphones [Music] no no i just wanted to make sure this was here i didn't know what it was there there was a special use for that oh dot org welcome back to boston public radio we're live at the boston public library and we're glad we are i'm jim browdy she's madriga and this is live music friday and it continues on boston public ready at the bpl by the way we're not supposed to do this till the end of the show but marjorie and i signaled to each other we couldn't wait any longer for this so with us today are members of the metropolitan corral they conclude their 2021-2022 concert season next sunday with a show at the first church in cambridge we'll tell you how to get tickets in a couple of minutes performing duke ellington's sacred concert with soprano gabrielle goodman who is here tap dancer ian berg was here in the boston jazz orchestra 15 piece big band we're going to get into the first piece in a couple of minutes first we're joined by the music director of this operation for quite a number of years lisa graham good to see you lisa how good to be together again in a couple of minutes we're going to be joined by soloist gabrielle goodman she's professor of music at the berkeley college of music i should say by the way that lisa teaches at wellesley uh gabrielle is a professor of music in the voice department she's performed both classical and jazz idioms with the syracuse symphony the baltimore symphony the baltimore opera the national symphysy a sympathy uh symphony and a few people you might have heard of like roberta flack chaka khan and patty labelle oh my god gabrielle it's great to have you as well as well as all the the members of your course hello lisa graham hello we are so excited we're great to see you so before we hear some actual live music here at the boston public library just tell people who may not know what's the deal with the uh chorus here the deal with the chorus is they're going to sing some duke ellington part of a work called sacred concerts he composed it between 65 and 1973 and these are just a few pieces drawn from a number of uh performances over those years well you have to go over there and lead them in a second before you go tell people if they don't even know i gave you 10 seconds what is this metropolitan corral thing that's a really good question what is it we're an audition choir we uh we're located in brookline we rehearse there we have a full concert season we're about a hundred members strong and uh we have made it through the pandemic and are performing live again for august you perform a lot at the all saints church right we do in brookline and in boston and all over the metro two of my favorite people narrated something for you at that church they were vaguely remember those people incredible well you're going to tell us more about it a minute again what's the first election we're going to hear we're going to start with the majesty of god and that is the whole ensemble and gabrielle starts this in the most beautiful way rebecca klein and greg ryan take it away [Music] the beauty of god is [Music] is [Music] and we should know that the light of god is [Music] [Music] the wonder of god [Music] [Music] the future of futures the future [Music] foreign [Music] [Music] will do [Music] is [Applause] [Music] [Music] is [Music] [Applause] and the metropolitan corral they're going to do two more selections a minute gabrielle you want to join us up here if you can with lisa wow yeah so tell us what we about what we just heard so in 1965 duke ellington was commissioned to write a piece of music to uh consecrate the cathedral in san francisco known as grace cathedral he had written a wonderful piece called black brown and beige earlier in the 60s and it featured a piece come sunday which is iconic ellington sacred ballad and people were inspired by that the leadership they said write a whole extended work for jazz for for band and he uh that's where he added the dance number as well but this was not a typical duke ellington this sort of a departure for him gabrielle was it not it's a different treatment because most of duke ellington's work was secular it was it referred to romantic love and things of that nature and it wasn't based on his love for god and so uh this is different in that way okay this is different in that way of course you know he had the big band and he had wonderful singers like ella fitzgerald and sarah vaughan uh singing with them and but as i said before the music was secular and there was a lot of scouting so that that is something that was uh transitioned and brought into this kind of uh sacred element with the scatting and of course the big band along with the choir which uh duke ellen ellington integrated that into that and of course the tap dancing and he actually toured this piece all over the world not just the states but um in europe sweden london and westminster abbey and he used the local choirs and everybody's in sweden fantastic singers swedish want to singers by the way you can sing pretty well by the way i don't know that's what i'm curious about i mean roberta flack chaka khan patty labelle brian ferry i mean yes that you're like you were like 22 feet from stardom how much of fun or maybe it wasn't i don't know no it was one a great amount of fun i also uh did a show with michael buble called uh forever swing where i was ella and he was sinatra just on the precipice of his huge uh you know stardom and so i i still maintain a wonderful uh relationship with chaka khan and with roberta flack and we did a tribute to her i think that it's going to be aired on public television sometime this year where uh i and lisa fisher and people bryson uh sing the works of roberta flack the songs that she's done with um people bryson of course donnie hathaway and her her own music as well you know lisa was here about a month ago yeah yeah she's wonderful and we oh my god we had such a good time but i have cds you can find them on amazon and uh just google search gabrielle goodman and you'll find the cds out there what's it like singing ellington oh it's wonderful it's wonderful um it's uh it's intricate there are a lot of wide intervals and that's the distance from one note to the next which is great it's a great challenge for me which i really like before you sing again which you're all gonna do what do you think of the metropolitan corel i know you're in a tough spot fabulous and lisa graham fabulous yeah and there's a chance that we might have duke ellington's granddaughter mercedes ellington on the 15th on the 15th oh my god so what are they singing and what are you leading next lisa graham we will be singing come sunday that number that kind of kicked off the entire sacred concerts featuring gabrielle and then a nice arrangement for the choir to follow great you guys are going to come back don't put your microphones down loudly please put them gently on the table you may return very slowly nicely done you may return to your positions and once again here is the metropolitan corel with gabrielle goodman as soloist led by lisa graham can we hear it for them as their walk into their positions [Music] lord dear lord of love god almighty god [Music] please [Music] through [Music] lord dear lord abound [Music] god almighty [Music] [Music] through [Music] i believe the moon and sun will shine up in the [Music] clouds [Music] he'll give peace [Music] come sunday that's the day [Music] come sunday [Music] that's the day [Music] [Music] oh [Music] [Music] god [Music] oh [Music] up is [Music] r [Music] [Music] [Applause] come back up you two if you count there's another selection coming with a big surprise in a couple of seconds so lisa graham i was thinking when i was when gabrielle was describing what duke ellington didn't hear moving into the spiritual i don't know the history was it sort of like uh uh bob dylan going electric meaning people were his fans appalled or what was the root reception at the time yeah so this was an interesting time where uh extended movements sacred music and jazz was just sort of coming about and also at the crossroads of the civil rights movement and so ellington was able to to kind of bridge a gap between different faith communities different racial tensions and basically said i get to say to the world now what i've said in private on my knees and he was a man of deep faith and he he said this was one of the most important things he ever did and he he died just shortly after the last performance of the sacred concerts about a few months after so it really meant a lot to him personally and i think opened up a whole genre for others to follow where you know the the late night jazz of saturday night was kind of coming into the sunday morning service and you know uh breaching that sort of sacred secular moment and wonderful so gabrielle goodman and with the cds are online people can get them to make sure they know that you also teach at berkeley college of music i do i mean berkeley college music has become like huge yes it's like i mean is there any i think i think we have uh in the divorce department now we have eighteen hundred singers students wow yes it's huge they continue and what do you tell them about pursuing a career because it's very tough it is tough um you really have to love it you know that uh that the road is not always straight that there will be pitfalls and you have to love it enough to stick with it you have to learn the intricacies and all of the aspects of music the theoretical part of music and so many different and of course vocal technique and things of that nature and so and you have to learn how to be a show person and smile when when things are not so lovely you can just go you know but um but it's a business so get yourself a lawyer because yeah i mean it's you know it's really important to know at least some of the business aspects of it when you're going into this as uh having a career in the in the music industry is not just standing up and singing it's you know some of it is contracts every time i signed a recording contract i had to get a lawyer you know i i knew certain legalese but you know i consulted miss flack i said can you tell me about this clause you know did you really i sure did and she said well i can tell you about this but i also put you in touch with my lawyer who became my lawyer at the time so so you do have to have sort of a team to help you left one thing out by the way and you also i assume have to say that if you're ultimately as successful as berkeley grad john mayer don't be an a-hole i do say that i say don't be a jerk whatever you know because nobody will want to work with you if you're a jerk you know and so people have worked with me for a couple of decades that's a good point jim that's a very excellent point it's easier for men to be jerks than women though i would say generally speaking speaking of men speaking of men think of something that i think is is i haven't seen in ages and we got a preview of it before we have uh ian berg who's going to be tap dancing in this next song can we hear a little bit about tap dancing from ian or from somebody from lisa well tell us about it this this is a percussion solo ian you want to say something it's a percussion solo that ellington wrote originally for dancer bunny briggs um and it's uh to the tune of david danced before the lord so makes sense have a dancer and if you listen carefully it's the same tune as come sunday so he just dressed it up again and and added a few uh tap shoes you sort of look like a tap dancer you do i mean i hope so so why why tap dancing um so tap dancing and jazz have sort of like tap dance is a important instrument in the history of jazz music uh we were discussing uh earlier that like a lot of these big bands like the ellington band and jimmy lunsford's band used to have tap dancers that would tour i didn't know that yeah a huge important part of it um you ever tap dance on the radio before i have to dance on the radio have you really yeah by the way we heard you rehearsing and for those who say i can't quite get that believe me you will totally get it so so did you like start this when you were seven or how did it come about exactly when i started all right seven years old how did it happen on tv or what i had a lot of energy and my mom was like well tap dancing class could be it and then i walked out of the class and i was like mom this is what i do now forever this is like what i do for the rest of my life so it was like love at first sight yeah definitely wow so lisa can you tell us what are what will people be treated to we'll tell them in a minute how to get tickets what's happening on the 15th we obviously know a piece of it but what's the whole deal the whole deal is that we have like you mentioned before this 15 piece uh orchestra uh jazz orchestra uh angelo zubrero fantastic pops uh trombonist for the boston pops got us a killer band together two of our members are here today with us and so you'll hear the entire arrangement of sacred concerts uh it's actually a few pieces from each of the three different sacred concerts that he wrote over those years so it's uh it's a medley of course we'll hear uh gabrielle and and dance and we'll have a few just some popular ellington tunes as well by the band take the a train we have a featured soloist from our own choir going to sing all of me and um hopefully as gabrielle mentioned that mercedes ellington will join us and do a bit of performing herself by the way what does ellington do by the by the way you're going to describe uh in a second what this third piece is going to be and we will say it a second time but if you want to get tickets and you should it's the 15th sunday the 15th three o'clock first church in cambridge metropolitan corral with an e on the end.org tickets we'll give you that address again what are we hearing this time lisa graham well this is david danced before the lord and it's again the come sunday melody that you just heard but dressed up in some rhythm um and of course uh starring ian as the soloist he did mention though that he could share the stage with you if you wanted to know he and i danced many a time together i figured give thank you we have actually uh do you want to give that microphone back to gabrielle and so here they are the metropolitan corral yet again led by lisa graham with ian bird you say on tap or what what is he doing tapping tap dancing whatever you're doing here they are let's hear it from the metropolitan corral uh four two two [Music] [Applause] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] oh [Applause] [Applause] [Music] yes [Applause] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Music] oh [Applause] that was unbelievable we need mike on lisa please thank you here we go on the keyboard rebecca klein great to be announcing greg ryan on the base and of course ian berg and of course uh representatives from the metropolitan chorale thank you so much this was absolutely that was i've never seen anything like that in my life that was unbelievable unbelievable thank your mother ian burke for uh for sending you off to tap dancing school thank you so much for being here go see him thank you so much a joy to be here thank you so much gabrielle too and thank you for everybody for coming in lisa graham is the music director of the metropolitan chorale conductor of the choral program at wellesley college soloist gabrielle goodman she's a professor of music at the berkeley college of music and the voice department she's performed in both classical and jazz idioms with the syracuse symphony the baltimore symphony the baltimore opera the national symphony and a bunch of great stars including roberta flack and chaka khan and thank you as metropolitan corral they'll wrap up their 2021-22 concert on sunday may 15th at 3 o'clock at the first church in cambridge you can get tickets at metropolitan corral with an e dot org tickets thank you again very much for coming in you are listening to boston public radio 897 gbh what happens if abortion restrictions make motherhood compulsory what is it like to mother across borders or from behind bars and just who gets a chance to hear that most precious and piercing of names i'm melissa harris-perry and that's next time on the takeaway from wnyc and prx this afternoon at 2 here on gbh news 89 7. funding for our programs comes from you and northeastern university announcing the burns center for social change mobilizing students and faculty to solve persistent public problems burns.northeastern.edu and the boston speakers series returning to symphony hall for seven evenings of diverse ideas and world perspectives with new york times columnist tom friedman author eric larson and astronaut scott kelly bostonspeakers.org [Music] welcome back to boston public radio jim browdy and marjorie igan you know what's up we're at the boston public library i have two things to say one it's amazing that as soon as the chorale finished singing people are leaving don't they know we're still here yeah we're still here so thank you all three of you know whatever by the way is your name penny it's your birthday it's her birthday let's hear it from penny she's here now let me say one more thing if i may we love being at the library every day we're here tuesdays and fridays maybe more in the future tickets a friday afternoon free concerts with a concert like this and really at the library the library really doesn't get any better they were found this music can we need music now to get through our many travails you know we were supposed to spend the last 20 minutes which is now a minute and a half talking about uh mother's day gifts to make up for parental burnout which we started the show with do you want to share with people in the 60 seconds we have some of the worst mother's day gifts we learned about people i find this hard to believe people actually did this but apparently according to scarymom.com uh some children decide to give their mothers wiper blades for christmas i like that i think it's good for mother's day i like that or a pedicure with their mother-in-law i don't think that's a very good idea at all or a gold-plated pasta necklace did you hear about that jim what are your do you give do you have oh you have a daughter who's a mother i know she i have a my daughter is a mother you getting her something of course i'm getting well i spent the whole time quoting from the jesse klein article back before that i go to jessie klein entire book about uh motherhood and and and being a mom and also you want to give her some nice things for herself you know some nice things bath things beautiful skin creams beautiful candles like this here's from that scarymommy.com a gift card for a golf course my husband likes to play at i don't play golf of course obviously he used it let me just say this by the way we're tempting to have music here every single friday because we love it it makes us feel great going to the weekend i don't know if we have anybody booked for next week if we don't i've decided i'm going to yodel you know i i don't believe i've ever yodeled in public before i'm thinking a small gathering in cambridge i did once but we assume we'll have another musical performance next week if we don't i will uh i will entertain you yeah no no i heard you yodeling once in the car jim and i think it was very impressive it was a very impressive performance okay well thank you very much uh thank you very much people that did come down to the library we really appreciate you coming thank you all thanks for coming if you haven't had enough of us you can keep up with us by 24 7 by the way of our podcast call the course boston public radio on monday we are so thrilled at 11 a.m we're gonna have dr anthony fauci uh willis we are with us we are thrilled about that he's kind of the the guru of uh covert across the country also dr sheryl hamlin she's the abortion doctor from massachusetts we interviewed a few months back who's been flying down to mississippi to help uh get healthcare at the state's last operating clinic there we want to thank our crew zoe matthews aiden conley mackenzie farkas rebecca tauber our engineer is john the claw parker our executive producer is jamie bologna our engineers today at the library we're patel said patel and angela marrero thank very much to them and uh thank you jim well i have a couple of things to say but thank you for saying that by the way the good news for the audience i will not be yodeling next friday because red shades hip-hop artists will perform live here next friday and secondly we are so excited about having dr fauci on monday somebody we both admire greatly who has done amazing things for this country if you have a question for him you can either tweet it to bos public radio over the weekend or text it to our call and text line 877-301-8970 we'll check them all out monday morning we'll try to incorporate as many of them as we can into our discussion with dr fauci thanks to margaret marshall thanks to sai montgomery thanks to all of you for coming thanks the incredible metropolitan corral and gabriel goodman and ian berg and lisa grant this is a fabulous show we loved it thank you for coming have a wonderful weekend everybody i'm rodrigo i'm jim brown thanks again for coming in today i hope you can tune in on monday and as jim said hope you have a great weekend you

Channel: GBH News

Views: 48,829

Keywords: WGBH, GBH, metropolitan chorale, choral music, Sy Montgomery, Callie Crossley Boston, Suffolk County Kevin Hayden

Id: NERrPcRquKA

Length: 184min 11sec (11051 seconds)

Published: Fri May 06 2022