Bobby Puleo on Cellar Doors

and if it's loud I mean it's [ __ ] New York what are you going to do you know I mean but you're originally from Jersey right yeah yeah you've lived here a while yeah I just kind of floated around my friends places okay and then I went back to SF in '98 cuz I was still riding from Mad Circle I had bought a I had bought a car I drove that out to SF I got a place in SF for like a year and then went came back to New York in '98 it's a lot of traveling I mean it was like maybe not at the time what I did you know like I had I had money from skateboarding and I had a car and I was just getting paid to skateboard so it was like [ __ ] it I actually drove back to New back to New York from SF with Rob Welsh and Tony Mirana and Nel there oh wow Tony Mirana rides for anti-hero or or used to he was like one of the later anti-hero guys in the golden Ara of anti-hero he's like kind of the last Golden Era like anti-hero guy and he one of those allterrain skaters or uh yeah kind of more like transition guy okay but he was from Louisiana crazy ass dude what's up with all those guys though like you know I only started recently skating transition like more in a more concentrated way cuz like like I said you know Long Island's flat we didn't have a lot of skate parks the parks we had were like those modular whatever and then but then we would always like Gilgo Beach or what was it one is it Nickerson Nickerson Nickerson Beach Long Beach there was Baldwin which I guess is still there even though they took out all the ramps then we had yeah just like prefab kind of like city was there yeah Oil City right all those spots but you know you couldn't if you didn't have a car you couldn't get there really yeah but anyway like none of those guys from the Bay Area they like they didn't wear pets they didn't wear helmets well a lot of them are not from the Bay Area first of all like how did they not just blow their knees out and like they're just that I don't know their reflexes aren't that good I don't know it's just like kind of punk and like you know cuz I've been putting on pads lately and it's like such a game changer it's I think that was like the thing with concrete it was like it comes out of pool skating right and pool skating is either like I I guess it gets to a point with pool skating like you could be in and out of that pool in 20 minutes so it's like [ __ ] it why even put the pads on and then there's the punk aspect of it you know which I understand as like you know I'm 35 now when I was younger you know helmets are dumb and whatever but now I'm like I don't want to be brain dead or well you know terrified of that I I think too like with that realm of pool like concrete skating yeah it back in in the day a lot of guys were coming out of skate parks right I'm talking like 70s ' 80s era skate parks and where pads were like that was what you did you put on pads and now fashion a lot of the guys are coming out of a street discipline where you're just more used to running out of a trick or you know whatever it is plus a lot of these guys are limber and you know I mean I I I I can't imagine the day we see like Julian or or you know did it just not fall a lot no you just ran out of it and tumbled you know I'm not a transition skater so I don't I don't really know yeah but you're you're pretty Adept at the smaller transition stuff you're very technical you obviously know what you're doing in some sense I mean it's a lot of it is just being able to run out and Tumble out of your trick and and the other thing is that when you if you learn skating vert well vert is a different animal yes but if you learn skating vert with pads on on you learn how to knee slide and then that knee slide becomes a reflex and then if you don't have pads on and your reflexes to go to your knees you don't want to do that so it's a lot of it is learning how to run out of your tricks you know and Tumble and not go to your knees but then I just like do the shoulder check I mean the shoulder check is like another kind of like smaller transition thing where you're you're your the coping is close to the ground so you're going to just go right to your shoulders with larger transition you can kind of like slide on your [ __ ] back whatever it's wild and they did have a ramp at Oil City as I mentioned but I mean that was the slickest thing it was almost it was almost IR ironic that it was called Oil City so you went there yeah I went there like twice yeah it's so and I was like is this a joke like Oil City yeah yeah where was that like uh technically I guess it's uh oceans side or Island Parkland par On the Border I don't know if you know the comedian Tim Dylan but from out there Dan whis too Weiss Dan Weiss you know Dan Weiss yeah he was like an oil I mean I knew I knew some of the guys from like the Special Sauce connection like I you still talk to Brian Davis uh Dan think wies BR yeah yeah he's originally a Long Island uh um an Upstate guy though isn't he is that right maybe not mightbe not be right I mean they like when they skated in the early '90s maybe yeah I don't know about fleein but yeah I only recently learned from Brian that like he it was Ray like Ray fretch I used to hang out with um Dan king that's how Dan King right right like I that was my like you know conduit into kind of knowing about skateboarding and stuff like that although I was never in the industry where where is Dan King from he's from Long Island Huntington Huntington yeah yeah that's where I thought so he knew like all the people he knows like everybody from there and then we didn't know each other on Long Island but but then when I moved to Greenpoint in like 2009 we just connected organically and then we skated a lot and then we ended up knowing a lot of the same people but yeah yeah like uh in the early '90s I guess having like a camera was not a common thing and Brian Davis told me that him and Ray fretch were like the only ones who had a camera so they filmed like all the right right right right whatever footage that they had at the time and they had to like edit it on these old programs and stuff and Ray I guess still does his Wheel Company PR fider little FID right yeah I bought some wheels from him a few years ago yeah but yeah they're all really nice guys like very normal yeah I think I might have met him through Autumn yeah and good skaters I mean Dan Frink always ripped yeah and yeah he has like I don't know if you ever been to that tea place it's really nice and there's a Savers right there which I like great spot across the street that bank the little Bank to ledge the bank to curb where you got to oy up the banks and then there's like a little curb on top it's right across the street from the Savers that's hilarious yeah I was just there going to check it out yeah it's in that doctor's office parking lot across like looking at the Savers it's across yeah what is that route 25 or something uh yeah Hamstead turnike yeah you ever skate how much of Long Island have you skated not that much it's a big place yeah I've only skated a few things out there I feel like kind of turned my back on skating out there I mean it's it's difficult big and a lot of the same Suburban kind of just loading docks yeah whatever but yeah you want to jump into the stuff yeah so yeah like I said I'm just uh you know the idea of the article is pretty much just trying to figure out like when seller doors started appearing in New York City particularly and then you know I can't really wasn't able to find out why from like a structural standpoint a cell door would be slanted or sloped versus flat uh it seems like it has to do with flooding and maybe like if it's at an angle obviously less water get in maybe the prevalence of that at a certain time came about because certain areas were on a flood plane whatever it also could do with just uh convenience you know kind of like in cuz they're obviously going down into basements right and I also thought maybe in some cas is like the size of the hole like the hatch itself yeah maybe that made like a flat one privative in some way I've heard them called bulkheads people in like up in uh uh Boston call them bulkheads I never heard that around here they were called sell doors obviously it's then the other thing is like seller and basement like which one is which you know well I found out that uh New York City makes a distinction because there was like all these people in the 19th century living Underground kind of Legally and then they're like well a baseman has like half of the space above the curb right and then a Cellar below the yeah and then you it's illegal to this day to live in a seller but you can live in a basement basement really has to do with like light stuff like that right right right and then also randomly like I don't know it's uh I feel like it's Soho you know like there's like the it's like a celor type of material steel and then they have those bulbs in it diamond plate yeah oh the bulbs that that you can that are transparent and you could see like you can get light through yeah it was like for workers to get light yeah yeah yeah well I've been to uh you know there's in um there's especially like in uh the winter there's certain sidewalks that you'll walk past and if there's snow on the ground this is very rare yeah but if there's heat coming out from that space and sometimes you'll see them on the sidewalk or on at least like this part of the building like you know closest to the to the wall of the building there's heat generating out of it there would be the ability to melt the snow underneath sometimes bakeries would have their ovens down in the basement and there was this one spot uh in Bushwick that operated uh they would bake bread under there and that oven was underneath the sidewalk and and uh the sidewalk would always melt so really interesting yeah but it's crazy like I'm sorry I should I shouldn't say the sidewalk would melt the ice on the sidewalk would melt that would be a very trippy yeah um but yeah I mean I have like these questions could just roll through them see how many we get through all right so uh do you recall the first time you saw someone skate a cell door well I mean the first time I saw anyone skate aell door was me because I had one in Clifton that was on my way down from my route from my high school and I would just roll up it and roll down it because I was I talk about it in my uh my out there I feel like I've seen that and I just would roll up it and I would try and go from the door onto the curb onto the step and then I would try and like make it off this is like you just came up with it like the idea of riding up it on your you didn't see it in a video no no well no I mean it was a slanted object so I was mimicking a bank you know it was like and this was in like the late 80s I guess yeah late ' 80s a long time ago yeah but it was also right across the street from my elementary school too so like it was always there and it was like when you were a kid I mean just like any just like now you look at something you're like I could skate on that okay or I could you know whatever yeah but then now this is interesting uh Mondo Vision comes out in ' 89 okay and I had just done this piece on you did a great job with if you watch the Mondo Vision Video Mark has a well that's not true actually I'm not sure if the clip is in the Mondo Vision video or if it's in death balda downtown okay but in death Bal downtown Rick and buddy got access to some unseen clips that were in that were not in Mondo vision and Mark actually rides up a sell door in I it might be the one on Center Street I never really like sat there yeah the one that's got the chain across it now you know what there might be scaffolding across it now I don't know if it's exactly that one I never sat and tried to figure out exactly which one because they were also there was a lot more of them back in the 80s and 90s they're slowly being like kind of disappeared yeah that's what the thing is it's interesting how that happened you know but um and that could have everything to do with like just the spaces being converted into Living Spaces and accessibility and security and blah blah blah totally but um but anyhow plus those things I'm sure eventually will rot you know if they're especially if they're from a certain time period yeah because I've seen photographs for instance on Lafayette on Jersey Street there's a public library uh it's it's only a two block stretch of Street goes from Crosby to I guess malberry and there's a wheelchair ramp leading up to the library and that wheelchair ramp back in the day I saw a photograph from like the 1940s and on the other side of the wheelchair ramp was these giant slanted sell doors also there's a photographer named Danny Lion Okay and Danny lion shot a lot of lower Manhattan before the Trade Center was built [ __ ] and that whole neighborhood used to be called like um it used to be called little Armenia oh it also used to be called uh like the electronic Center or radio I think it was called radio row but it was where most of the electronics were sold and all that yeah well J&R is like a survivor of that right yeah it was more like where the Trade Center was exactly like that whole little Zone and they bulldozed all of it to put the Trade Center up but Danny lion if you look at his photographs there's like tons of crazy skate spots that are no longer exist you know all the buildings end up finding about that photographer uh just through like being interested in New York City history you know these photographs are from like late they have to be from like the mid to late 60s cuz construction starts down there probably as early as 67 68 what an interest I mean sometimes of course like you know you'll see like you said old photos and I mean that's a whole like interesting kind of fantasy like the spot that you could have skated totally before skating oh totally yeah yeah totally yeah I remember seeing I don't remember which interview you were doing but I watched a bunch and you mentioned along the Eastern Edge oh yeah yeah yeah and there's stuff in there that's no longer I watched it and um that's Pepe Torres Ian from yeah uh uh Mike V okay yeah they skate like near the uh it's still there the seport museum sure and those ballheads were there yeah I was looking these old photos in the same do they don't ride up it it does have like some stuff on it but that's like an original that's original throwback from yeah not a reconstruction really old not steel plated yeah well that whole neighborhood somehow got spared down there uh and that that neighborhood was Mafia controlled the South Street SE Port the Fon fish market and yeah has super crazy history super crazy history so cool but um all right um so that's that's great um do you remember when you started skating seller doors in New York City well I think the first clip I ever well I first of all I got to I got to go back to the question you asked before you looked at traditionally videos I would say probably the first Clips coming out on sell door is coming out of Philly just because Rick and those guys had you know access to filmers and uh that stuff was like readily I mean that the whole city is filled with cell doors it's crazy but um it but uh yeah I think the first clip I might have ever had on a door is I think I Ali into a door that's no longer there on South 6th Street next to the Williamsburg Bridge okay and it's like off some stairs into a door mhm and that is might be in my Infamous part I can't remember okay but I'd also have to go back and look because I can't remember yeah no worries but that's like probably 98 99 so wow a long time ago yeah so so in terms of like filming stuff on doors you know it's yeah it's you know a legitimate door like there was also like those those Subway grates that would prop up and those were similar like diamond plate style but obvious obviously it's not a slanted seller door it's a popup you know door I never got into like pulling up stuff well I never did either but the way I got into that was uh Keith huffnagle actually showed me how to unscrew them and pull them up and we used to go down and walk around the subway system oh my God yeah like Lower Manhattan yeah it's crazy that's Terri but that's all like pre 911 stuff you know like when it was like there was no like threat of like you know getting arrested for terrorism or whatever smoking in bars yeah smoking in bars killing prostitutes yeah yeah all right so uh was it the is it a four ply magazine you did an interview with oh I have no idea what was what was that I read this interview from last year and you said that yeah probably I think four plus sounds about as you mentioned you know um like your skate generation was heavily influenced by vert skating yeah yeah yeah and that you tried to emulate that in the streets um like were you drawn you were just drawn to seller doors specifically because of that vert influence well yeah that and also we we had them available okay you know so it's like okay so there's not a bank if it was like an asphalt Bank you would skate it it's not an asphalt bank but it's a sell door and it's just as skat as a bank so like any type of wave type yeah any slant whatever you know but there were some weren't there like some indoor concrete parks in New Jersey at some point or was it Maryland well Cherry Hill but that was like 19 1980 this is a long time ago yeah yeah I I was not skateboarding back at that point yeah all right um and there was there was a there was an indoor park in Long Island I think yeah or I don't know if it was indoor or outdoor and there was also one in Woodside really they had a they had a skate park in Woodside I did not know that that was like going that's going back too like 1979 or 1980 yeah um I think that was on like Roosevelt Avenue or something that's crazy hey I think that woman left we might be able to go back inside I don't know if that [ __ ] up your flow with the video no I mean if you want to transfer I mean whatever we could just keep going are you okay you're yeah yeah totally totally okay all right it's also like kind of quiet in there and I don't want to be like kind I like okay yeah yeah I mean if you're okay no no totally fine all right so uh could you say like what section or sections of New York City did you frequent most often to skate seller doors well it was always lower man hand at first at first yeah because that's where a lot of them still were yeah you know for instance oh oh I sorry I had a clip in I had a clip in uh my five flavors part okay skating the seport uh the museum door really yeah what' you do on that I do uh I think I Oly over the island when that was a parking lot now it's a child's playground it's like a playground and uh I oy over the island I do a 360 flip and then I oy up the stairs and then I oy into the door W yeah that was a line in five flavors so that would be my first clip and that's 96 97 yeah that that might have been filmed in '96 might have came out in 97 might have come out in '98 I can't remember exactly the trajectory yeah but yeah that so that I mean it seems like I mean from my perspective it seems like you're the you know Pioneer of celor skateboarding well in New York yeah you know obviously Rick and were there like did it spread did other people at the time like in the late '90s where other people like hey Bobby's doing that maybe I'll there was other people who I where I would skate a spot and then other people would come up and do a trick on it after I kind of like yeah you know whatever broke it in but there was also there was like for instance that door that I was just talking about on Center Street obviously that thing was there and people did tricks on that you know Huff a lot of people did tricks on that cuz that thing was on the way from like say Supreme to the banks okay you know so it was like as you're going down you hit it you roll up it whatever maybe there's a photographer a filmer with you and you want to try something there so it's not like it was like it's not like I invented the [ __ ] you know it was always there it was just like what you what you stopped and tried you know because a lot of it was just routes from to and from like the banks yeah or if the banks was always in the Meetup spot and then you went and skated like you know um World Trade Center or you know whatever the pyramid Ledges or well pyramid Ledges were a little bit later maybe that was my time yeah yeah but uh you know I mean pyramid Ledges were they were always there but it was like then it became like a spot where like you know kids were doing I'm talking like kind of like '90s before yeah gotcha but uh yeah pyramid Ledges were they were always there but there was just like you know uh other spots like World Trade Center had great white marble benches out in front of it um really and uh another spot we skated was across the street from the Federal Reserve there was like this long ledge there there was just you know little little things they called them uh there was another spot with these like little curb Cuts mhm and I can't remember the name of the spot but yeah there's like footage of like Ron kigi there in like the early '90s javet Center you know whatever oh I love the Javit Center I mean it's like it was kind of like a n javet Center downtown the court the courthouse there was also the Jacob Javit Center Convention Center which is up the plaza yeah that's that's uh that's in Hell's Kitchen but there's a javitz federal building downtown in lower Manhattan that had a bunch of stuff around it it's still there that's sick yeah it's across from blba oh wow yeah that's called not the courthouse with the drop right on the opposite side that's called the that's the Javit cour not know that yeah yeah yeah that was like where I went when I was a teenager we would just go to the banks walk down Water Street pyramid Ledges Veterans Memorial yeah veteran that used to be different too that was like that that whole Plaza used to be configured differently right it was like in the photosynthesis right build did that yeah yeah yeah right correct where he and we would always like look for we were like well this is got to be it but it's yeah yeah I don't know when it change uh so it was just the way that you found them was just like kind of they were there the on the way okay all right uh let's see so I mean would you say like before like in the late '90s early 2000s before there was like the aggressive way of gentrification that skating Celler door was not popular in New York City not popular like you know like it became kind of a thing like genre yeah yeah I I mean it was you know you're talking about uh well there's a little bit of two two things that I guess go into something like that a there was way less skateboarders yeah B you had if you wanted to do a trick you had the banks you know so was that mhm it's like am I going to like try and skate this object that's much harder much harder to skate on yeah you know possibly making way more noise lot more noise yeah I could [ __ ] chip my teeth on this like you know whatever you know it's just slightly you know and then there's that element like that it is a much harder kind of like thing to navigate through yeah for sure so it depends on like you know you know it is what it is like kind of thing all right but uh in terms of like the gentrification aspect of it I mean it's you're just talking about the community just growing larger in terms of like more skateboarders yeah you know the other thing is that with something like that you know there was once once a space becomes popular more people want to come here and skate it m there's also like you know the stigmas involved in New New York like it was a dangerous place so you know like people didn't come to New York to you know whatever yeah but um yeah so it's just like you know skate tourism to a certain extent was a lot different but you know the Bones Brigade came here in ' 85 and skated the banks and yeah but it didn't it didn't take like I remember being like at the banks at the whatever the banks Jam or whatever it was called they had that in like 2003 4 5 yeah and I always thought like man the big Banks the big Banks when they had like skape objects there oh yeah yeah yeah and I was like man if these guys like you know cuz they would I guess flow fly people in to do the contest and stuff like if these guys lived here and they skated here all the time they would like put all of us out of business like basically cuz they just kill it like California but then turns out that that's not really true cuz there's kind of like this aesthetic approach to skating in New York which is almost as important sure as the tricks that you're doing sure sure sure you well there is that element yeah yeah but for sure like when I you know I just ended up randomly coming to like Williamsburg in 2006 or 7 and then I was like oh this is so cool there's like all these skaters and I was from Long Island that's where a lot of I should move there yeah a lot of a lot of skateboarders when the revitalization of well there was also 911 there was no real reason why you wanted to live in lower Manhattan right don't get me wrong the East Village is a totally different animal but the 911 event pushed a lot of people out of Manhattan uh and you know myself included even though I moved out of lower Manhattan in 90 99 okay I actually went from Uptown to lower Manhattan to Brooklyn by 9899 I had I was living in Brooklyn was kcdc there at the time kcdc I think starts in 2001 yeah but I don't remember I could be wrong about that I could be totally wrong about that don't quote me on that no no it's okay but uh yeah I don't remember pry sure you're right 200 it's either 2000 or 2001 yeah and there was a whole wave of people you know the other thing is that Williamsburg Waterfront you know Bedford Avenue that started to get gentrified way back in the 90 early '90s I remember like the dudes from uh there was a lot of Art that had had spaces there Kenny sharf was out there way back when uh They Might Be Giants this band They Might Be Giants filmed a video on the on the waterfront there this is like 91 uh buty Williamsburg was still like a that was a no man's land back there and it was the the Williamsburg was a bad neighborhood back then it was like really renowned for murder heroin stolen cars that was my understanding I used to be on that uh official New York Forum okay okay when I was a teenager yeah and I would get like all my info about spots cuz my only thing like we would get on either the bus or the L and go to you know like I said Lower Manhattan or we go to Flushing that was it you know I didn't go to Brooklyn I didn't know anything about BR I was thought it was like that's where you go to get murdered well Atlantic Avenue you had a stop on Atlantic Avenue Broadway Junction which back then was like [ __ ] and I was like you know little little white kid so I was like I don't know if I'm going to be able to handle myself or whatever but we' see the video of you and other people skating that like you know Park that it's like a DIY on the waterfront right with the volcano all well the name for it was skanky town oh my God because it was written on this concrete skanky town and back then that was like well you know that used to be a a railroad terminal where the freight would come off the ships and they would load them onto the on to the tracks there and there was like it was called Brooklyn eastern district terminal and Kent Avenue actually had ra road tracks that ran down it it was similar to like the elevated train on the West Side Highway or on 11th Avenue oh The High Line The High Line and the the reason they put the high line up was because they used to run Freight down 11th Avenue and so many people got hit by trains there that that's why they put they elevated it damn and that they used to call 11th Avenue the Avenue of death kind of before Queens Boulevard which was due to you know vehicular traffic it's like all these old people trying to make the light they can't make the light so sad but now you have like 30 minutes to make that light but anyhow let me just say this um so that spot on North 7th Street yeah when Brooklyn eastern district terminal went out of business it became an abandoned lot and there was like homeless people living down I shouldn't say homeless well I should just say people living down there cuz they were building their own little shacks and living back there there was there was also interestingly there was a leaking hydrant back there so there was like a water source which is kind of crazy it was a leaking fire hydrate in fact one day I went back there and there was a dude taking like a full bird bath oh my god with the water coming out of that hydrant but you guys drink out of that thing uh you know it was like not deadly if you did but I you know I don't I don't ever remember myself drinking out of it but it was just like a leaking hydrant yeah and uh and it worked because it had to work because that was a fire you know and there was plenty of fires down there I remember one day I went down there and all these Shacks had burned by some probably somebody smoking whatever yeah um but yeah I had friends who found a dead body down there my God yeah in fact one of the owners of kcdc nebit nebit and uh this this guy um Chris found a dead body it floating in the on the banks of the of the East River St Harley yeah yeah but you know otherwise it was normal the other thing is that Kent Avenue kind of before this mid90s had like [ __ ] Street walking prostitutes down that's like where you went to get a prostitute amongst other spaces but also like in the '90s you know especially when I would come in from Jersey through the Lincoln Tunnel which was rare I usually I mean I definitely did go through the Lincoln Tunnel especially like when I was a kid kid with my parents like if we went to like Madison Square Garden or the you know not really the Yankee Stadium but um we would come through Lincoln Tunnel and it was like at night it was like prostitutes everywhere it was insane it was like a strip club except outdoors and you know people conducting business cuz these women were like scantily clad pretty wild how long was that like a DIY there anyway it called skank well yeah before skanky Town skanky town and it was like I said it was written in like spray paint on the side on the concrete uh but before that it was a it was a pretty famous graffiti spot okay yeah it was like uh and I'm sure those guys had the name for it but I don't remember what that was okay cool but um yeah I think I mean that got that got kind of started to go through the re now it's a state park yeah I saw that so it made it very nice I don't know like exactly when that happens but for a long time there was a point where we were skating there pretty regularly they had bulldozed the pyramid and the quarter pipe M I'm sorry the volcano and the and the quarter pipe and then I had built like a slant ledge way further back down towards the end of it oh you made that yeah good but those people who were ever you know commandeered that revitalization Pro obviously the state yeah at one point they made it inaccessible you had to hop this crazy iron fence actually the fence that's still there oh man um and uh yeah one day it was like if you went back there you were getting tickets from the cops and I know number of people that got so that was like kind of like our main spot cuz by that point 2001 even though it was already going right the banks was sort of well after 9/11 the banks were done yeah they parked I mean I remember going out to the banks after 911 and it was just filled with destroyed cars like that's and also became like a little bit of like a poli well Police Plaza it's right there became this like Fortress you know area where it was checkpoints and yada yada yada all those barriers up there yeah no like literally checkpoints like police check points and you the banks were done like I mean Lower Manhattan was done it was filled with [ __ ] dust and you know yeah it was you did not want to go down there it was a terrible terrible time but yeah so yeah I mean I get it digressing but the what I remember is the yellow ledge was like that was where the white hotel is yeah that thing was awesome so was like go to kcdc maybe skate the ramp and then and then skate the yellow ledge yeah and then I don't know later maybe McCarron park for the black little yeah in front of the bathrooms well you know I'll say this there's there are a few doors in Williamsburg but it is not the mecca of sell doors there are a few yeah and usually those doors are you know they they pop up around places of industry or industrial style buildings Philly is a different style it's a different story and there and there's plenty of there's plenty of spaces in New York the five burs that have doors on apartment buildings or you know residential buildings but then you're dealing with the people who live there yeah and they're usually not too happy they're usually not too happy yeah so oh that's so fascinating all right uh I mean let's see do seller doors represent anything more than like an urban transition obstacle like excuse me do they serve as like markers of a skater's creativity or like some kind of urban credibility or something like that I don't know I I I don't know I mean yeah it's like yeah I guess you could kind of say like you know it's it's much like graffiti yeah you know you go into a bad neighborhood right and you get a tag off it's like your cred you know but you you never approached it that way no I mean you know I definitely at one point I would go into neighborhoods not looking for cell just looking for anything you know to skate um but that wasn't motivated by like credibility it was just motivated by like Uncharted territ Territory and and getting you know understanding a lay of the land just you know whatever but uh and you did that like on your like on foot on both bike foot skateboard whatever R I used to ride trains to the end to the last line and get out and Scout my way back you know kind of cool yeah all right um I guess I don't know this is kind of in line what we were talking about so I mean to my mind seller door skating became popular between like 2005 2015 thereabouts sure and again I believe large part that's due to your efforts uh do you feel that you know when it when the rise in the cell door skating the popularity was there like do you feel like the meaning of skating a Celler door somehow changed you know when there was like people you know it's like back here pool skating yeah it's the same thing it's just it's just it's a it's a sub genre I guess at this point obviously the pool is has is the origin of kind of like transition skating where the cell door is not but it you know if you wanted to compare it to like you know Wasteland you know let's say Phoenix Arizona or Las Vegas uh you know that sort of like the the be all and all or the bad lands Sala like you know flying planes you know it's like this is where the ultimate object there to a certain extent I don't want to say ultimate but you know cuz you could like look at handrails as another like sub genre skating there's people that only skate hand rounds you know or ledge skating or whatever it is you know U Flack round whatever it is yeah you know it's like um Plaza skating you know you could like we could be sitting here talking about love Park uh that Plaza in LA radio Korea or whatever the [ __ ] it's called um you know you you know we could be talking about like public plasy you know um so it's like you know it's like being being like in the 90s like oh you know he has all his tricks filmed at Love Park must be a Philly native must be in with the crew to not get his [ __ ] stolen you know whatever em similar yeah em is similar you know the the kind of like uh the the but but New York and the seller door thing is like it's just more about you know it also has that like [ __ ] Urban exploration thing kind of kind of like you know down the beaten path or off the beaten path um so did you observe it like cuz I mean I kind of did anyway like I don't know you know I don't know if I'm the word is like a dirty word but I kind of saw like Celler door skating becoming like a hipster skating thing and I I was like you know that's cool it was fun I did it yeah you know but were you like why are they doing this or no no obvious it's obious why they're doing it you know like it's cool it's it's interesting it's like you see a spot and you're like I mean the and again the obvious answer is that you're and skateboard this has been the Allure you know or the lore the L The lure to skateboarding is that you want to do something cool and when you're skating on an object that's not made for skateboarding it makes it that much cooler you know you're manipulating your environment you're you're you're thinking outside of the box you're looking at things differently you know so it's like it's obvious why you know and then there's like a hundred different ways to skate any object you know so it's like well if he didn't do this I'm going to do this on it you know it's like but uh you know I I sometimes I approached it like Graffiti Writers where it's like well I'm I want to be my I want to be the first to get my name here you know and then it's like and then if the spot pops off it's like you know whatever there I guess there is some like bragging rights to it and you know I've always said this like I you know it's like if you listen to Lance Mountain talk he'll always be like I'm not a good skateboarder yeah I've heard him say that but he but he is yeah he is he's an incredible skateboarder but you know my whole thing was like well I can't like kickflip tail slide the pyramid Ledges but I could tail slide this Sellar door you know that no one's going to find for x amount of years years and it gives me like kind of a little bit of like a you know like this is my [ __ ] you know so it's like and I feel like we're kind of past now even like the uh whatever like the ABD and all that [ __ ] like well you never pass the ABD but you know you wouldn't say so uh well it's different times yeah but at the end of the day if it's already been done it's already been done it's like that's like saying like and you're right we are we are past it but you know it's like if you take a classic beat you know like A Tribe Called Quest beat and then you lay down a track over it right it's like well you know like what the [ __ ] are you doing right somebody has ownership of that well to a certain extent it's like you know granted tribe call Quest probably sampled it from right X Y or Z but you know I'm saying like it might depend on the spot too cuz like let's say you go to a famous pool right like two two two guys are there they both do a front side air well that's different a front side you know it you're getting into like yeah I mean there's like technicalities but like Mike Carol says it best like if Eric C already did the back nose blunt on that ledge in you know like let's say down hubba yeah you know yeah you could go do it you could do it but it's already been done you know and it's like at a certain point this is getting into like you know kind of dark territory I'm just saying like it's it's you know but I'm curious about that because I feel like as I get older too it's like yeah you don't care but it's like gives a [ __ ] you you know skating skating and style is the individual part yeah as much as you know finding the spot yeah but maybe that's a matter of opinion I mean it's it's it look that will always be a thing in skateboarding like who did what first right whether you want it there or you don't want it there you know um yeah for sure and you know now we're getting into like we could potentially get into like revisionist history we could get into history in general you know like do you want us do you want to not recognize the past or do you want to recognize the past that's up to you yeah it's it's you don't need it for the advertisement or you don't need it to get a paycheck you know it's like a it's like a it's just something that people will always sort of like yeah talk about you know I heard for instance I heard these these guys talking about pool skating yeah and they were like oh younger pool skaters just want to get old quick so they can kind of like fall into the like I did this kind of thing you know that's so funny but you know it is what it is it's just you know it's it's you know but yeah I mean I'm personally like I always try to like mix up what I'm doing even if like I have my own thing in my head of like I already did this and then I don't want to repeat myself that much well then there's that too you know what I mean cuz a lot of people can kind of like can build career off what they have done which is fine you know I'm not I'm not taking away you know it's same thing in graffiti or same thing in pool skating do I want to see salba front side carve the light and grind the death box hell yeah I do you know I don't give a [ __ ] right it's it gets down to like certain people yeah you know do I want to watch the 16-year-old kid do the same carve over the light and death box as Saba not really maybe not you know same thing with do I want to see like another you know V ja filling yeah I do because I love that you know got uh so it's like it gets just gets down to like Personal Taste and yeah you know I feel like there was a period of time in skating where you know technicality was like you know held as the high standard well yeah but then you know as as that started to get to the boiling point it's like well where do we go from here right you know it gets crazy yeah and then it's almost like so difficult to even understand what's being performed if you're watching it well you know I me you have to be really well versed in skateboard to understand it yeah yeah yeah well that every skateboarder should always be well versed in yeah I mean you should language but it's like someone else outside of skating for example can appreciate like a a simple beautiful movement yeah versus like something that's you know got three or five components to it yeah here's a better example like if you if you're not well versed in the the language and the history right you know and all of a sudden you come out with a you know it's it's like I said it's not detrimental to maybe the check you're receiving from your sponsor cuz they only really care about content to a certain extent and maybe they don't know but it's like if you shoot the same exact photo that somebody shot 15 years ago there's going to be a group of people that might look at you and be like what the [ __ ] are you doing you know like didn't don't you know this right you should maybe and sometimes like with skateboarding the concept of common knowledge you know it it it and I'm not trying to like say it it's it's a it's a uh it's an earmark of intelligence but but um it's like if you don't know that then and granted there's kids that might that might not know it you know but I think with something media out there now yeah and I think with something like skateboarding it's just always been built in but we're also talking about a slower you know uh um a slower uh progression towards a pinnacle and then also like you just said media is there's thousands of different ways to get your information but you know that's the other thing is that with all this information you have access now to everything that's ever been done in the past you know so it's like right the history is longer I mean I remember up until 2005 probably I knew every esape video and memorized some of them yeah yeah yeah you know and you like wanted to emulate what someone did in a video like in a place you've never been to I guess I guess an even better example is with with graffiti writing yeah let's say you start to write graffiti and you write like scene s e n and you're like like you didn't know that there was the probably one of the most famous Graffiti Writers who ever wrote scene yeah I'm not aware of it in the ' 80s in the in the 70s in the 70s and ' 80s and you go out and you do this dangerous spot and you write scene and you're like all the other Graffiti Writers are like what the [ __ ] like that's not cing UA that's some kid who doesn't know that there was a you know so you've like essentially just kind of like clowned yourself and wasted your own energy and your freedom to a certain extent you know obviously skateboarding is slightly different but that's a sort of better analogy you know where like if you don't know your history you could potentially and again it's never like wasted energy but no you know but it's hard to define a future if you don't know the past honestly yeah and when it comes to like you know the desire to have some kind of creative or individual expression then you should probably know you know what happened before also like exactly obviously art is a great another great example like you don't want to be work that ellworth Kelly made in the and or whatever you knows I had a logic teacher in college tell me like you know you got to you got to learn the rules before you can break the rules and I kind of I stuck to that as a skater and you know I try to uphold that but you know whatever I'm not going to be critical of anybody have you ever seen uh have you ever seen the the uh I think it was in skateboarder yeah Mike Caroll uh damn look at this chick's hair or whatever that is on her head oh wow it's like a [ __ ] giant there must be a lot of hair under there damn that's crazy so um it almost looks like a [ __ ] puffed up balloon it's insane anyhow um Mye Carol came out with like I think it was like the nine dos and don'ts of skateboarding okay and it kind of slid under the radar this is like maybe 1999 mhm but you know once like love letters came out you know Jeff kind of like stuck stuck to that kind of thing like yeah there's no rules but there's rules know you know again I'm not saying like I have I have a one beef with that which is like I'm not good at Tucky Indies like it's really hard to do and then I'm like you know you problem yeah it is my problem but like when if you do like a non tuck me whatever that's called stink yeah like it's called stink does it have to look like [ __ ] maybe maybe not it depends on the parts well you know there there are Indian you're talking about strictly Indie airs or front side airs front side front side airs is not an indie air first of all excuse me and there are people like re Simpson who does a sick stinker straight leg in the air but the the stinker front side air is completely different the go-to is like Tony ala first of all he's the origin of the front side air and the sick front side air okay and then like look at John Gibson like the beh it's always behind the knee yeah you know anything above in front of the knee but when when there's like but a front side air is a front side air if you could do a front side air you're stoked I mean that's how I feel about it cuz you're like I'm flying in the [ __ ] air who cares and then like why well you're getting into the realm of performative audience-based you know kind of like but there's some Conformity there where it's like you have to do it a certain way well why you know it's he's saying you more you should do it yeah it just looks better it looks better I mean I can't argue with that you but anyway and this is where we get into like the uh the performer and the audience yes you know that's true because it is a per it is a performance base performance and there's totally a difference like every skater probably knows like you do the trick you feel like it was the best thing you ever did and then you see the video and you're like damn that does not translate any trick you know you it does not feel like what it felt like when I was doing doing it all right so um you mentioned in the that same interview from last year that like something that there's a difference between let's say riding your board A to B and then like uh just spiritually skateboarding or something to that effect okay you know and I wanted to ask if if you do consider your relationship with skateboarding in some way to be spiritual well I would say like based on I don't remember exactly the context of that question but I it's just like have you someone asked you like have you been skating lately and you're like yeah like you know to and from here and there but not like in a spiritual sense yeah yeah yeah so so a lot of it you know the way I look at skating is like you want to reach this like it's a it's like meditation yeah so when you meditate yeah you could sit down for [ __ ] 5 minutes and not your thoughts are all over the place and you gain nothing from it like with skateboarding it's like you go skating and you achieve like a certain satisfaction from it and from that satisfaction you gain a certain like peace you know I guess that's probably like what I probably meant because I've always gone skating with the aim of like achieving something or learning a trick or you know doing a trick or you know just being satisfied a lot of it comes down to satisfaction but yeah that's what I would say like it's probably that but yeah cuz that's how I feel about it I feel like it's for me a meditation again as I get older yeah it's a safe thing for me to do sure to like clear my head or whatever and also it gives me an opportunity to develop a relationship with my surroundings yeah you know what's funny about that interview is when he conducted that interview I think it was around October of 2022 yeah and at the time I had gotten hired to work on this like outdoor uh job for uh a friend of mine who owns a painting like a mural painting business yeah and I was it was like a full week's worth of work and it was just as like the weather was turning yeah in October like from like summer to kind of like colder and I remember I wasn't skating that much during that time when I was working but when the interview finally came out I was skating a lot more and I was like oh this makes it sound like I like I'm not skating well you're were busy with something yeah I was just doing something else so at the moment but yeah yeah and then after that I started skating again but you do skate pretty regularly or yeah yeah although I would say since New Year's mhm I got sick oh damn I got like a like a cold yeah you know not like [ __ ] deathly ill I just got sick and it kept me off my board and out and in the house for a couple days and then it got cold and the cold is a real deterrent for me like I don't like it and it's just like makes sense if I'm going to go out and kind of like feel like [ __ ] I'm like I might as well not even go out you know that was kind of like my attitude and it still is like today I'm like h i could go either way it's like you know but that's the thing like if I'm not going to get that satisfaction out of skin it doesn't make sense for me to do you have a pretty good gauge based on like how you feel the yeah totally totally yeah totally everybody should I mean I Do by this point you know and the other thing is like I've been skating for like [ __ ] 40 years or whatever the hell long time yeah yeah so it's like I do I need to go skating yes and no like you know it's like a lot of it is just like a routine yeah yeah yeah it's like meditation it's like a practice or like yoga or you know whatever whatever people do you know you go out mostly by yourself to skate or almost always yeah has it always been like that kind of you know there's definitely like simar Crews of people that I've that I've you know linked up with throughout the years you know it's like yeah this one person or this crew of people depends like if I'm skating for a company and they're trying to like do a video or like you know I'm on a trip or whatever it is you know I find it hard to talk to people while I'm skating know what I mean I mean it's a social thing but it has its moments I get like caught up in doing what I'm trying to do and like breaking out of that focus and like having a conversation getting back in I'm like [ __ ] man now I'm like sweat is dry yeah yeah I saw this kid the other day at the at that um Ocean Hill Park and he was wearing a Big Boy shirt oh you went down it's nice and I was like I was like holy [ __ ] I was so psyched to see somebody wearing a Big Boy shirt and I was like are you from Texas and he's like yeah and all of a sudden here I am talking to this dude he's trying to skate and I'm like telling him some [ __ ] wacko story you know I'm like man I should just shut up I'm sure you appreciated it yeah yeah yeah yeah all right let's see all right this is a weird question but within the realm of what we've been talking about but like in terms of making a spiritual connection between yourself your skateboard architecture uh does the Cellar Door somehow like activate that process in some way does it function again this is weird as like a portal like does the act of riding on a Cellar Door somehow like alter reality no no no nothing like that no it's I mean obviously the diamond plate is like a surface yeah you know some people Prov prefer super smooth marble okay you know the plaza of plasi or whatever it is the you know the bricks of the Banks I you know it's a very small you know the thing about a Celler door is that you got to like kind of like there's obviously a runup yeah you know a great example of a [ __ ] runup was the one oh that's the other thing I guess I'll address now there a lot of a lot of spots that I'll skate or have skated M over time they get renovated okay and the sidewalk gets fixed and a lot of kids will do a trick on a door that's like the sidewalk got fixed and getting up to the door is like a or any spot doesn't have to be a cell door yeah but you know there's a lot of unspoken sort of like things that go into stuff and again I'm not saying like when I did it it was so much harder but it's just different it's like different time periods and there's you know um is there some sense of nostalgia going back to the beginning like the Celler door that you first skated when you skated one now are you like taken back there in time in some way or no no no nothing like that no but I guess a good example is that that that going back to that South Street Seaport door yeah somebody had like bonded those two like yeah uh you know whatever they're called like um slats yeah slats that go across it and that made it easier to skate and when I skated it I didn't do that right you know so now it's like well you know what what where are we going have I ever modified a spot absolutely but I try to keep like as the most Integrity that I can okay one of the craziest ones was if you go back to my slap interview I have a nosebone slide on a on a like a what would they would call a Philly stair and there was like a flattish door that you had to OE on to in order to get to the stair it's just a single it's just like a a single photo it's not a sequence yeah but I had the door was so [ __ ] up that I actually had to Li lay a piece of plywood across it and I look at it and I kind of regret that but without that piece of plywood I would have never been able to the door was so like halfhazard or like you know sunk in a weird way I would have never been able to got gotten that photograph but you know it's like so um but yeah there's like you know certain spots have gotten modified and gotten fixed you know um a great example was the Crosby Street one where where I guess this is in my my V5 part oh yeah great part and I oi up onto a skinny stair it's on Crosby and spring mhm or Crosby and Prince Crosby and spring Crosby in Spring and it's in front of that like crunch gym now or whatever all the up onto that skinny stair and the SK the stair was actually rubber yeah and then I Oly up and I nose manual the ledge thing or the platform into the door right the run up to that [ __ ] spot was so [ __ ] up that I look back on that I'm like man I can't believe and it you know but I was determined to like get that because I because it was so [ __ ] up that I was like anybody who tries to do anything else on this after right is going to have to deal with exactly what I had to deal with and you know again we're getting into like the realm of like loow hanging fruit like you know if you made that like stair like wider and you fix the sidewalk you could do Al up kickflip nose manual right but just getting onto the stair was a [ __ ] getting onto the stair was a pain in the ass and then staying on the stair in a straight line to get to the nose manual was pretty crazy I find that often too with with a street spots it's like getting the approach correct is often harder than the trick abely you know that's like going back to pool skating you have to get the carve before you go over the light and the death box correct and that's understanding the lines of whatever it might be that are not visible but long story short and I don't know if that spot has gotten fixed but I remember at one point walking down Crosby Street and looking at the sidewalk and I was like oh they fixed the sidewalk so now kids are going to come and look at it and be like that's that's all he did on this you know and it's like uh you yeah blah blah blah yeah but you know I know and those who know know yeah and that's I mean that means something all right hey check this dude out where with the American flag oh just kind of crazy USA yeah USA baby but in terms of like I don't know whatever question you asked it don't get you know it's I mean yeah yeah it is what it is you answered it thank you and um different surfaces resonate different vibrational frequencies you know I that's a way I always I I realized it one day when I was like riding like either my regular board or my cruiser board I was like wow it's the rolling over a surface generates a vibration that goes through your feet up into your body you know it's like it's pretty interesting so it's like oming when you meditate see that or you you ever like have a cat you ever have a pet cat and they purr they're creating like this vibrational frequency you know it's pretty interesting which is like some people will say that's the kind of like the the life you know the uh the sort of like uh life vibration you know I would agree with that um well kind of along those lines uh are there like well do you have a preference for a certain type of cell door well obviously the ones without the ridge down the middle ones without the what the ridge down the middle the bco doors like a flush one yeah yeah flush one is obviously but if that's what you got to deal with that's what you got to deal with and do you have a texture preference you like well the diamond plates are obviously fun it's like it's like people skating those like um you know those uh etched uh coping metal copings now you know it's that's right those are more popular now yeah just cuz it's like a funner sort of like experience yeah but obviously the thicker doors and a much like flusher place door is going to be quieter a lot of it deals with sound yeah cuz you don't want to Rouse the neighborhood right you know cuz once you Rouse the neighborhood you become the the sore or the nuisance and then you're also getting [ __ ] either fighting somebody or getting kicked out or whatever it is you know I try to go in and get out as without okay you know as little so like do you usually have like I want to do this I'll try to do that and then leave or is it like let me ride this for as long as possible it's a little bit of both okay you know yeah oh it's always let me try and skate this for as as quickly as I or as long as I can yeah um you know but New York has always been that that was always the thing like especially Midtown yeah Midtown it was like you're definitely getting kicked out at some point so you got to get in and get your [ __ ] if you got the the errant like hourong session at a spot you were stoked you know I haven't done that in a long time but I was always H very hyper aware of like the nuisance I was creating in what neighborhood you know obviously there's spaces like Lower Manhattan where back in the 990s it was like mostly you know uh commercial yeah so it's like you could be in there for longer but you might have to deal with the security guard right you're not necessarily waking somebody up but you're you're dealing with the security after 5 down there like on the weekend for sure but security was um okay let me see just a few more and then we can wrap yeah um I mean okay my observation is that your skateboarding is very focused on conveying a sense of flow you can correct me if I'm wrong yeah uh is your dedication to skating sell doors inspired by a desire to develop flow where it may not otherwise obviously exist uh what say that again you know how like you know a lot of Street skating is like a straight line yeah right uh okay I I think I got you like seems like your intent is to develop a type of flow well I just look at like I I look at the layout of a spot or a door and if it's like if it's a single trick then you're like okay there's nothing else there to do on this I'll just do this or if there's other stuff there then you obviously form the line it's like it's like with any type of skating you know if there's a line to be done then great do you prefer uh to avoid going in a straight line while skateboarding no I never it's never it's I I I don't make those decisions the spot kind of like you know the Environ I got yeah yeah okay so it's like if this one thing is over there and you got to cross the street in a [ __ ] diagonal to get to it or you know whatever okay but yeah and you know again like I never started out thinking to myself like I'm going to be the seller door guy I just like them you know yeah um and you're not you obviously have a much you know bigger repertoire than door yeah you're not but you know when I when I you know look at the skating of a Cellar Door you you come to mind excuse me I mean wow you know uh but goodess like I saw yeah it is good uh what is it Jerry Jerry morz is that how you say his name he did like a part recently that was like all and I was like that's that's dedication yeah and obviously like I don't know that I would ever do that to that extent but it's interesting to see somebody take that approach where they're like oh I'm only going to do Celler door yeah yeah versus like integrate that one thing into a bunch of other stuff yeah yeah but yeah um all right do you have like a favorite trick that you like to do on Cell doors no no okay uh have you ever sustained any unique or serious injuries skating one all right could you say that there was like one of the what's like the hardest seller door for you to access and uh was like skating it worthwhile well the one that I never got to skate was the one that Jerry back 5 across which one is that that's the one at the corner of Old Slip and William Street maybe okay or one of those streets down there yeah uh maybe it's not William but it's one of those Street maybe Pearl okay might be Pearl Street and um yeah it was just there was there was always a restaurant there and you know one could make the case that yeah Jerry's dedication to that was there was there was also residential buildings above it there was a lot of factors into that I just didn't have the I didn't have the the the wherewithal it was also a hard door to skate and I just never got a chance to skate it and now they're scaffolding around it you can't skate yeah but it's not a huge deal it was like you know the one that got away the the the time and energy to go to do that was just not worth it to me you know I was like I could I I don't need that [ __ ] you know um whereas some people maybe needed it right you know is that you're talking about you're talk again getting into that mindset of like ABD this one's never been touched so it is like the you know the the crowning Jewel kind of thing yeah um or the uh maybe not the the not the crowning Jewel but but you know you're getting into like holy grail type territory okay you know solidifying you know objects yeah but um yeah whatever but it looks fun as and it's definitely a little puzzle and that's what I like about spots is trying to figure out like where you got to go to get to like you got to avoid the lock and you got to avoid this crack you know the other thing is that that spot was hugely modified with Bondo it it needed to happen but you know me it's like I I'm I'm a lot lazier like I said not that I have never modified a spot but it's like I also don't have a car so it's like if you're talking about like hauling material over there to [ __ ] with it I don't I don't have that you know it's just whatever so you work with what you got yeah with some limitation with some limitation yeah do you find that the limitation is like rewarding in terms of the creativity yeah because you know like I said there's it's going to take more for that person to come up behind you and and then the other thing is that you're getting into like a little bit of like bragging rights where it's like well you used a sign I didn't use a sign right you know so it's like or whatever it is wondo [ __ ] you know whatever cement yeah so again it's like just little [ __ ] like that kind of thing do you still go looking for seller doors now no no no although I I still find them you still find them yeah I found one in Woodside the other day that was insane where at oh don't worry about it I know a little spot over there it's not a Celler door but it's like this little Bank uh-huh up against a wall near the LR I'll bring you there oh yeah yeah yeah I know it's it's it's the it's under it's the underpass yeah there's a couple of them over there it's so hard to skate I mean it's kind of like yeah it's very tight yeah the bank is pretty small it's like this High Yeah it kind of gets bigger yeah yeah there's the one that has there's ones that go right up to the wall and then there's the other one that has like a little lip a little lip yeah yeah yeah that one's cool all right man that's like Woodside Avenue and or no not Woodside uh I for whatever it is my girlfriend's mom Liv right over there okay there's like a weird side street there it's kind of cool yeah and then that school is over there as well yeah that school is like rare relatively new there's actually a couple schools over there that are relatively new but is that it yeah yeah good cool thank you yeah yeah

Channel: Village Psychic

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Id: rVPYR6Xniy8

Length: 72min 15sec (4335 seconds)

Published: Fri Apr 26 2024