Bob Fishman: Jewish Convert - The Journey Home Program

again good evening and welcome to the journey home every week on the journey home I seem to uh emphasize our program to our uh TV viewers but I want to take this special time to greet those of you who are listening to the program either via the Internet or shortwave around the world and remind you that you're an important part of the program you call us you send us an email we have received email email from as far away as Japan and Australia during the program so I appreciate all of you who are listening and for your constant uh very kind and supportive comments to our program the journey home program focuses on our journey of following Jesus Christ Our Lord wherever he would call us and as each guest each week emphasizes that brings them full home to the Catholic church and that's true of my guest this evening who was brought up in the Jewish faith and he will share about his journey to the Catholic Church first finding Jesus and then full home to the Catholic Church Bob Fishman lives in Montana and uh I think his full story is available on tape which you'll see information later if you'd like to order that but the theme for tonight's program is the Jewish roots of Catholicism and these are uh truths about our faith that often we take for granted maybe we're not aware of but it was in studying the Jewish his own Jewish roots that he was awakened to the truths of the Catholic faith so remember to call us with your questions at 1 800-221-9460 or send us an email at journey home ewtn.com Bob welcome to the journey home program thank you very much it's great to be here and um before we get started I just wanted to say that I really appreciate your show and I appreciate the hard work that you guys do in Sharing stories because it helps um bring people to the faith and it really encourages me and I think you're a hero in the faith and I just wanted to say that well thank you Bob and I I think tonight is a uh I don't know if the viewers always recognize that this is a very special moment for our guests because you have the opportunity to Proclaim What the Lord Has Done in your life to a whole lot of folk that are watching or listening but it's a great opportunity for you to share the beauties of What the Lord Has Done and as usual Why Don't We Begin by asking you to share your early spiritual journey for the off okay um my journey began both my parents are Jewish they have been all the way back there was never a break in the family and they were not religious Jews except that they went to church or went to Temple about twice a year went on rashash Shana and yam kipor and other than that they didn't really go they didn't know the Bible very well and um my religious training as a youth consisted of me getting Bar Mitzvah where I I studied and I went to Hebrew school for about a month before I was bar mitzvot and then after that really there was nothing did you have a faith in God growing up at all I did I had a I had a faith in God but at the time it wasn't really defined it wasn't like Orthodox Judaism my parents just said we're Jewish that's it you know and I was allowed to study um other philosophies the only philosophy I couldn't study was Christianity and I would ask my mom how come Jews don't believe in Jesus and she would always say the same thing I don't have to tell you why this is my house these are my rules and I don't want to hear it not in this house so I didn't study Christianity and I wound up studying Buddhism and Hinduism and different faiths like that which they had no problem with but when I was 17 years old I decided I wanted to know the truth about Jesus and I had caught most of it through Christmas specials and you know things that were on TV but I never really knew the life of Jesus and so a friend of mine got me one of those little green New Testaments and it had a green cover it said New Testament psalms and Proverbs and it fit real nice in the back yeah yeah fit real nice in the back pocket and I took took took that home and he had told me read the words in red because that's what Jesus said so I thought okay I will so I started reading it and I thought you know I don't see anything so bad in here and I couldn't understand it um why more Jewish people didn't accept you know what was written I didn't see anything blatantly offensive or anything and about that time I graduated high school and I joined the Navy and while I was in the Navy I was stationed um in boot camp and I ran across my first born again Christian now I'd never heard about you know Born Again Christians or anything and he came up to me and he used to leave tracks on my locker and on my bed and stuff like this and he was convinced that I needed to be saved and I used to ask him what do I need to be saved from and he'd say well just read the pamphlet and I'd read it and on the back you know it would show um are you saved check yes or no and it would have a box in if you you know the the the picture next to the no box was this little guy burning with flames coming out and I didn't want to be part of that so I of course checked yes and handed it back to him you know are you saved yeah the idea of Eternal damnation did not appeal to me so I gave it to him and um and he started to get on my nerves more and more so I began going to Temple and I studied with a young Rabbi and I said listen I just want to answer this guy's questions and also my own questions and I want to know from a Jewish point of view the Prophecies of the Messiah and so I studied over 300 of them and we looked at words we debated over meanings we debated over the word virgin you know in Isaiah 7:14 and different things like that but on an overall picture it became clearer and clearer to me that it had to be Jesus it couldn't be anyone else from the L line of David from the tribe of Judah you know born of a virgin born in Bethlehem will suffer for our sins it had to be him and so I I decided that I have to follow Jesus I didn't know how now I got transferred from boot camp to Pensacola Florida right in the middle of the Bible Belt and um I was there about two days and a roommate came in and I said you know I've been thinking about going to a church and he said brother Bob have I got a church for you and I said really he said yep come with me to church I said okay now I didn't know but it was a Pentecostal Church Pentecostal holy Rolland spirit filled and I thought okay I'll go and he said I want you to sit with me in the front row and I thought all right I'll sit in the front row so I sat in the front row and I heard music and I heard preaching like I had never heard before and I saw people dancing and jumping and clapping and I thought you you know this is great no wonder there's so many Christians if this is what a church service is like you know cuz I'd never been to an actual service and at the end the pastor gave an altar call and I was already ready to receive the Lord so he said would you like to accept the Lord and I went up there I said I certainly do he said you know have you repented I said yes I have and uh then he asked me a question and he said have you ever been baptized oo now that that was something I'd read about but I'd never heard before you know never thought about doing so I thought okay you know but I didn't bring a change of clothes he said that's all right we have a gown you put it on and we'll we'll dunk you now I didn't know you should get a video camera make potato salad invite the relatives you know all that stuff I was just in your case that might have been a little awkward anyway yeah yeah and it was G you know it was something Jesus did so I wanted to do it so I got baptized and I came out of the water and I was dripping with the innocence of God I was on fire and they said have you ever received the Holy Spirit and I I said I don't even know what the holy spirit is it sounds good you know so they prayed over me they laid hands on me and um and I felt powerful I felt power rush through me and I knew that God had touched me and I was Dripping with it and I did what every good Jewish boy should do I called my mother less to say she was less than enthused I called her up and I said mom guess what I did she said what I said I got baptized there was silence and she said what you have done is like taking a knife and stabbing me in the back and I said Mom how can you say that you're not even religious you go to Temple maybe once or twice a year how can you say that and she said you broke with tradition you are not my son and she hung up the phone my Christian high soon left me and I began to hear other things like you know brother Bob now that you're saved your family's got to get saved especially your mom because you don't want to see her going to hell and I didn't and I actually believed what they were telling me as the years went by I patched things up with my mom to the point where we could talk not about Christianity or religion but we could talk and uh I went from the Pentecostal Church to the Assemblies of God church and then into non-denominational churches and while I was there I learned a great many things and I tried to share with my mom all the time about you know um Christianity and about how Jesus is the Messiah and it didn't work nothing I couldn't get through to her and I'll tell you more about my mom's story later on in the program but at that point in my life I decided I wanted to know what truth was and it was difficult because so many faiths had told me their way was the true way I had churches that I had gone to who would say this is the truth this is the absolute truth you're in the right Church stay here this is it and other churches would say this is the truth and I didn't know what was true and I was really questioning it and it had to be confusing with no Christian B ground at all the very first church you enter has a very specific Pentecostal flavor and then you go to others and other churches and that certainly is confusion um before we move on the theme for tonight uh which was an important theme to your present life now I think it's one of the topics you like to speak on and that is the Jewish roots of Catholicism and I'm wondering at this point as a sembly of God Christian uh what were your views both of your Jewish background and of Catholicism it was really interesting because my my Christian faith and the people I hung around with would tell me now that you're Christian you no longer have to be Jewish don't be Jewish anymore my Jewish friends were saying now that you're Christian you're no longer Jewish so I was caught between a rock in a hard place and I didn't want to give up my Judaism simply because I was a Christian because all the early Christians were Jewish you know Jesus was kept the law practiced Judaism and I wanted that too but I was running into a lot of problems and um a lot of people telling me things that you know you that I could keep or I couldn't keep or their version of judeo-christianity as they saw it and it was starting to rip my heart apart because I didn't know what about the Catholic church was that on the horizon at all the Catholic church I heard all almost exclusively anti-catholic things from no matter what church I went to and it wasn't done in a way that was mean it was done in a way where they'd say brother Bob I'd bring up a Catholic question and they'd say oh that's that's what the Catholics believe you want to stay away from them they didn't answer me they didn't say you know like they'd say things like well they're Idol worshippers you know they worship Mary and stuff stay away from them you know stick with stay with us that we're we're the right Church and that was really hard because um I got a misconception of Catholicism almost to a point where I was afraid to open up a Catholic book you know I was afraid someone might see me from the church and think oh no you know I'd be counseled for deliverance or I'd be you know called on the carpet and they'd say why do you have that Catholic book in your house you know and um so that was a that was a scary thing because isn't it true you're talking about the different truths of each Church you visited that each one has its own litness tests of what it means to be a true Christian and each of those sets of criteria can be different and conflicting from each of those different churches you were visiting that's exactly right like baptism is a great example the Pentecostal church I was baptized in baptized in the name of Jesus only the Assemblies of God church I went to said that they baptize in the Trinity the name of the father Son and Holy Spirit both churches said they had the truth both both baptized different ways and both were convinced that I needed to be re-baptized if I was in either one so you know it was it was little things but they started to add up and I I got to a point in my life where I was like pilate what is truth anymore what is it is that what got you started to consider the Catholic faith uh the Catholic faith well let me let me show you here I'm going to put this on this is called the yamaka by by the way it's a yamaka some people call it a skull cap some people call it a Kea but it I call it a yamaka some people call it hide your bald spot right yeah to hide your bald spot and this is a Talis if I can get it on here there we are and uh the talus is a prayer Shaw a prayer garment and Orthodox Jews wear one underneath their clothing and then over their clothing as well there were two and they would take they would take the uh long portion of the the Talis and touch it to the Torah as it was being passed by in the congregation similar to us as Catholics when we walk by holding the word high they do that in the Jewish temple too and the people will take their TOs and touch it and then kiss it maybe later you can tell some of the symbolisms that's on the be interesting sure how did this get you started I had moved to California and um while I was in California I was deciding what church to go to and I was torn apart inside everybody had the truth and I had learned enough scripture that I could tear up someone's religion or I could build it up you know so if somebody told me they were Baptist or they were uh whatever denomination I could either encourage them or I could discourage them based on scripture and I used the sword like a dagger and you know the word of God like a dagger to hurt people instead of to help them and I reached a point in my life where I didn't know what truth was anymore and I didn't I was fed up with Christianity for a time being I was still Christian but I didn't want to go to a church so I prayed you didn't lose your faith in Christ no but I prayed because I was I said God please just show me teach me and God spoke into my my heart of hearts and said I want you to return to your Jewish roots and I thought okay I will so I looked up in the phone book I looked up an orthodox Rabbi because I didn't want any rabbis that were on The Fringe or anything I wanted the real deal the guys with the ringlets and the beards and the whole nine yards so I looked through the phone book and I called him up and uh and he said come meet me and I met him and I told him I said listen I believe Jesus is the Messiah and he said I will teach you Jew Judaism as long as you promise not to teach Christianity to my flock and I said you have a deal no problem I will do that and I went and I learned beautiful things I'll share one of them with you according to Orthodox tradition there is only one time when uh a person can ever touch the Torah the Torah is the first five books of Moses on scroll form and it's rolled out and and there's only one time in your life when you can touch it they use a pointer to read from it because the the Scrolls themselves are expensive and they don't want the oils of your fingers to deteriorate also they want you to use a a pointer to read with and they don't want you to accidentally run your finger over the name of God but there's only one time that you can touch it and that's when you're a little tiny baby and they take the baby into the synagogue they unroll the scroll and they take the baby finger and touch it to the scroll and then they take the same finger and dip it in honey and then let the baby suck on it so that the baby will always know that the word of God will be sweet in his mouth great tradition and I heard that and you know stuff like that blew me away and I started reading of Jewish Mystics and I didn't even know Jews had Mystics and I maybe describe the audience what a Jewish Mystic is a Jewish Mystic is a rabbi who writes writes about prayer or writes about mystical Judaism to a point where it's almost like Rapture and that's what I discovered in my searches I had come across books by St John of the Cross and St Francis and even though I wasn't Catholic these saints were incredible to me they talked about really communing with God and I wanted that I wanted real Christianity not just play Christian and um when I read these Jewish Mystics they talked about Rapture and Union with God and I thought oh man they're talking about the same thing that these these Catholic Mystics are talking about that St John of the Cross was writing about and I thought you know maybe there's something to this Catholic church because I couldn't give up the idea of Jesus being the Messiah so I went to my Rabbi and I said Rabbi I loved what I'm learning and I loved learning Judaism and thank you but I can't deny that Jesus is the messiah and I have to I have to return and he said all right you know go go your way and I did and I went home and I opened up a phone book and I looked up a Catholic bookstore and it's a bookstore called Catholic Footsteps in Hisperia California and I called them up and the owner is a guy named Victor clo I didn't know it at the time but he's a nationwide apologist okay and I called him up and I said listen I've been filled with anti-catholic stuff I'm a Jewish Christian and I just want answers to my Catholic questions and he said write them down so I wrote down a list of 20 questions I called it Bob Fishman's top 20 and they were everything from why do you worship statues why do you worship Mary all the usual stuff that you hear you know and I just wrote it all down and went down there and he helped me with every one of those questions and I learned about tradition I had never known that all the churches I was in was you know it was in the Bible if it's not in the Bible we don't believe it you know and that was it I never knew that we had writings from the guys who were students of Paul students of Peter and John knew what they looked like and I thought this is incredible this is a whole side of Christianity I never knew all I ever got was Genesis to Revelation and that was it you know I never knew about these guys and when I learned that's when I thought oh man this is beautiful you know the Catholic Church isn't a bible-based church the Bible is a Catholic book you know Catholics were a church way before the Bible was even put down and I thought man I have to I have to become a Catholic and I went through rcia and after rcia I came out and I decided to do what's called the Grand Slam you know baptized and I got re-baptized because the church wasn't sure you know because of when I was baptized and how I was baptized if it was right so the my father said just do it again so I said great I want to anyway you know I and uh I did and I became Catholic and um I still love learning and it's every day it's beautiful you know in the church well might be good for any uh of our audience has just turned in it sees you sitting there to describe again uh what this symbolizes for you maybe now what this symbolizes for you what it did then and what it symbolizes now for you well back then it symbolized for me um a return to my Heritage and a return to where Judaism is this just what the rabbis would wear what all Jewish men would wear who were orthod not all all Orthodox yes during prayer times they didn't walk around town like this but during times of prayer they did and one of the reasons was because it separates you from the worldly stuff you know it it you're doing a holy act and when you put this on you're you're becoming holy you know you're realizing that you're not just playing games you're not thinking about football practice or volleyball or where you got to take the kids or what's going to be for dinner you're doing something holy and they they prayed and that sense of Holiness um got enrooted in me something I never had and I only felt it again in the Catholic Church you know when you realize when you come in and you're kneeling down and you're praying in front of the Blessed Sacrament or whatever that is Holy you know you're not thinking about what you got to have for din what you're going to make for breakfast who's coming over all that you're separating yourself you're becoming holy and this now that's what this reminds me of and when I put this on when I give talks and I I'll put this on and I do it because people identify it with Judaism and it's um it's just beautiful well there's probably a parallel with this of course to the robes that priests wear absolutely absolutely and that maybe gets us into the topic which you've chosen for tonight that is the Jewish roots of Catholicism talk a bit about that because I think many of us are aware of them or we take them for granted well as we all know Jesus was a Jew you know and if you don't know surprise because there are some people who still for some reason don't believe that but Jesus was a Jew and um he studied Judaism and he practiced Judaism as did all the apostles as did all the apostles and the Jewish roots of Catholicism everything we do in the mass with the exception of the crucifixion was a Jewish custom was Jewish the whole idea of a priest the first time we ever hear about a priest is in Genesis when and the first time it's ever used is describing melchisedek as the king of Salem and he was a priest who offered up bread and wine as a sacrifice unto God the other priesthood is the levitical priesthood which um offered up animals flesh and blood for our sins Jesus combined both took the flesh and blood from the levitical and which was his own flesh and blood by becoming the Lamb of God and the um wine and bread of the melchisedek tradition and combined it into the ultimate priesthood I think something that I became very aware of as I was making the transition was recognizing that when Jesus was training the twel in the midst of the 150 of the disciples that uh their jewishness was assumed and presumed it wasn't never abandoned and maybe it became very clear to me that that's the reason why much of that Judaism and jewishness isn't um itemized in the New Testament documents because it was something that was just obviously clear that's right to all the early Christians and one thing I love especially about the Catholic church is that you don't have to stop being Jewish when I got married to my beautiful wife Karen I have to give her plug cuz she really is beautiful but we got married in the Catholic church and I was able to wear my Talus and yamaka walking down the aisle and I I loved it you know no other Church could I do that in you know um the non-denominational churches would say you can you know be any denomination as long as it's not Jewish or Catholic because if I went in and prayed the rosary they wouldn't let me do that a lot of times but and if I went and dressed like this you know unless I was doing a Passover or something like that they tell me to take it off so but um I I love the fact that the Catholic Church allows me the freedom to you know um to to do Jewish things I mean everything we do from the procession with the book it's the same if you go into a temple now and see a Jewish service they walk around the room with holding the Torah High you know it's the same thing the profession they have readers who read the whole thing of reading the the Liturgy to the congregation is a Jewish custom and especially all of the details of the Last Supper oh the Last Supper the Passover be you know that is the you know what's amazing to me is that John had an incredible Revelation and John the Baptist standing on the Jordan knew that Jesus was the Lamb of God you know we hear that term but a lot of times we don't think about it why a lamb you know a lamb is an innocent creature and that's pretty much why cuz it's so innocent it'll come to you even if you're holding the very knife that'll be used to slaughter it it'll still come and the Lamb of God was a symbol that he would take away the sins of the whole world we they would Jews the priesthood would Slaughter Lambs for sins for just a family for just people or for the Passover meal itself and here was Jesus who said I am I am the Lamb of God and I'll take away the sins of the whole world and John the Baptist caught it and John the gospel writer caught it and you know it's an unbelievable and all those different details of the of the night in the upper room all expressions of that Passover meal what about Mary how was that in your trans how was she in your transition I got to tell you honestly I had trouble with Mary and I'll tell you because um is common for well as a Protestant you know we just believe that Mary was more like a birthing vessel kind of thing and as a Jew we really didn't acknowledge Mary as you know we acknowledge she existed but that was about it you know because we didn't believe her son was the Messiah you know so um we didn't I I had problems with Mary and I prayed about it and God gave me a revelation and I'll share it with you and when I say he gave me a revelation I don't mean the skies parted and a voice came down and stuff I don't mean an understanding you're right an understanding in my mind and he gave me an understanding and I don't know how many of you have seen on Raiders of the Lost Ark or whatever but they have the Ark of the Covenant there and use that as an image in your mind but the Ark of the Covenant was so holy that God gave Specific Instructions as to how it should be built every single detail from what wood to be used from what metal to be used from how to hold it how to carry it what goes in it every single detail and he didn't only say it once he says it twice and he wants the people to do this and they build the Ark of the Covenant and inside of it they put the remnants of the Ten Commandments the staff or the rod of Aaron and a piece of Mana which sustained the the Israelites throughout the desert and then they covered it up and that Ark possessed incredible power AR armies who held it you know won their victories and God even said look if it starts to tip or if it starts to fall don't touch it but one of the people we know the story they're they're riding in an ox cart they're they're holding the ark and they hit a bump and the thing starts to tip somebody sticks their hand up to grab it and Bam struck dead and we say oh that's not fair that's not well God told them don't do this this is a holy thing don't mess with it it's so holy you can't even touch it lightly and King David when he recovered The Ark in Jewish tradition every seven steps did a little dance I call it the Jewish twostep every seven steps he did a little dance and he said I got the ark back he even had a fight with his wife who came down and said King David you're acting like an idiot you know stop that and he said you don't understand honey we got the ark back we got the ark back he knew there was power there and if there was so much power because the things in the ark were touched by the Finger of God how much more power would there actually be in the Finger of God and not just the finger but the hand and not just the hand but the arm and not just the arm but the body and the head and how much more holy of a vessel would you need to hold that and that's what Mary is to me and that's why I believe we should definitely honor Mary and that's who the early fathers saw because they addressed her as the ark saw her that so there's that parallel and for your own confirmation that you received within your own heart understanding Mary we just going to take we'll take a break we'll back just a minute with your questions for Bob Fishman about his journey and we also talk a bit what your the Lord has called you to do right now be with you in a moment thanks welcome back to journey home my guest Bob Fishman has shared his journey from Jerusalem to to Rome your journey of finding Jesus Christ and then becoming a Catholic and for those those of you tuned in just before the break he was wearing his prayer Shaw and yamaka a little bit which was a key point in your journey ER symbolizing uh not the rediscovery of your of your Jewish roots but trying to disprove Christianity at one point and that drawing you to Jesus uh and then bringing you into the Catholic church and what you say you got the three things all at one time three three sacraments y we call it the Grand Slam there you go but um I I would like to uh clarify sometimes I tell people that I was re-baptized in the Catholic Church and that's not really a correct term what it is is that the baptism that was given to me in the Pentecostal church is not a recognized baptism and um so really I was baptized for the first time recognized not recognized because it wasn't using the the traditional biblical formula of the Trinity and that was what put it into question right and and it's a traditional custom you know and and uh I I an accurate form it's an accurate form let's take our first email we have some emails we have a caller waiting so let's go to the first of our questions it is our understanding that the correct term when one of the Jewish faith becomes Catholic is that that person completes not converts this helps us in our greater appreciation that our Catholic history has its roots in Judaism will you comment on this thank you and welcome home well thank you very much from the novo Paul and Melanie Paul and Melanie thank you um yes it's been called a lot completed Jews is a term that I've heard a lot and essentially it means that Jews who have accepted the Messiah sometimes they're called Messianic Jews um sometimes fulfilled Jews um so it the the terms get get batted around a lot but I believe that it does complete but there is also an inner conversion and I don't mind being known as a convert I like because God literally converted me and to convert means to turn around to and and I totally turned around and I understood and I learned about the faith and it was a total conversion in my spirit too and in my heart and so um although many people call me a completed Jew and things like that I am a convert and um and I thank you for your question you know for many of us evangelicals uh we hear the same thing completed Evangelical similar thing because and I think it's we like that emphasis because because it's not that we were abandoning or have abandoned our Evangelical backgrounds it brought us to Jesus Christ that's right praise God but we see a movement to the the entire gospel if you may or a fullness of the faith that he delivered to the apostles and essentially I know that's in our discussion that's the way you see your own journey and that's why for example we've had David Moss in the program The Association of Hebrew Catholics the emphasis being that a Jewish convert does not have to give up their Judaism that's exactly exactly right and the Catholic church is one of the only or the only church that I know of that lets you still do that you know and doesn't make you feel like you have to bury it and um I it's good to see a Resurgence of that no let's take our first caller this is alen from Maine hello Alan what's your question for us tonight good evening um I always wondered why it is that the Jews don't believe that Jesus is the Messiah and why are they still waiting for him to come and God bless you and welcome to the church well thank you very much thank you oh this is one I get a lot why don't Jews believe in Jesus it's one I even asked and I'll tell you um in the old days it was because the Jews had two different concepts of a messiah they believed in a conquering King they knew that there was Messianic scriptures that referred to a suffering servant but they also knew that there was a conquering King one who would slaugh B their foes and and the lamb would lie down with the lion and all of that stuff and they wanted that and when Jesus came along and became the suffering servant rather than you know the Conquering King who would slaughter their enemies the Jews wouldn't accept him also nowadays the reason a lot of Jews don't believe in Jesus is because they don't study their own Judaism um I knew Orthodox rabbis who believed that the late Rabbi schneerson out of Brooklyn New York was the Messiah is that right mhm he was a rabbi who uh was Orthodox and did many great things and wonderful things but he had no Sons to pass on to and um they believed that he was had Messianic qualities I shouldn't say that they believed he was the Messiah but he had Messianic qualities and then he passed away a few years ago and um you know it's like why in my heart of hearts I know it's Jesus only because I studied and because I had to prove it to myself because I was trying to prove that he wasn't the Messiah and if you look at all of them and there's a bombardment of evidence it can't be anyone else yeah so I definitely let's take our next caller this is Fred from Pennsylvania hello Fred what's your question good evening Marcus good evening Mr Fishman my question is everybody believes in God there's no question about that isn't that true well and and if they do well any any decent religion right that believes in God and if that's true why why do they question God's uh ability to do whatever he wants and when he decides to pick the Blessed Mother to be the the mother of uh Jesus Christ why do they question it I can't understand that okay thank you for a lot of times I think people question first off um there are a lot of people who believe in God granted and there are some who will take that belief and go deeper it's one thing to say I believe in God it's another thing to take that belief and do something with it to really research it because I know as a Jew you know and my family my my parents they believed in God but they had no real um conviction no they didn't they didn't study and um that's a shame because there's so much Beauty in the teachings of the church in the teachings of the faith and people can learn that and and really grow deeper and deeper inside uh yeah to say one believes in God can be an extremely abstract oh yeah I mean even Satan believes right reality yeah the demons what kind of a God uh is he a judge or is he a loving God uh is he a father is he a master right you know there's the distinction uh I've been told between uh Islamic understanding of God as a much more as a master uh slave relationship versus a father-son relationship that we'd see within Christianity that's right um so just saying one believes in God but the the man was asking given the reality why don't they accept Mary well that's what it is it's it's really one more of many truths uh that take study that take understanding and I would say most of the reasons that people uh reject the Catholic understanding of Mary is because they've not taken a chance to examine what the church teaches on that what his history has passed down to us uh even the scriptural texts uh about Mary let's take our next caller this is Bill from Missouri hello Bill what's your question for us hello thank you so much for taking my call and thank you for this wonderful program uh I'm going through a similar Journey right now myself and um I'm investigating Roman Catholicism uh versus Judaism and my question is um now that you have converted to Roman Catholicism do you continue to observe any of the Jewish feasts um and how did you make the journey from Sabbath to Sunday that's very interesting to me okay Bill thanks for calling I really appreciate you calling yes thank you Bill and good luck with your journey too U may God be with you I I get this question often too um I'll answer the Sabbath part first I had trouble with that also because I didn't understand why Christianity changed it to Sunday and things like that until I understood when Jesus was saying I am the Sabbath you know I am the rest you know my yoke is easy you know rest in me and that's what Sabbath means to rest you know and I once I understood what Jesus was saying and then understood why the Christians changed it to Sunday because that was the day of his resurrection you know that was the Fulfillment of all fulfillments you know the sacrifice had been made and now the people were delivered and um I loved this you know I still keep some of the Jewish Customs I celebrate Passover and I celebrate what I call hanant which um I hope I don't offend anyone here but Hanukkah and Advent fall very close and often in the same period of time so um I celebrated with my daughters uh Cara and Kayla hello but I celebrated uh an a holiday called hanavan where I would light the candles in the traditional Jewish style say the blessings and um observe all the Hanukkah traditions and then we would sit back and read an advent Story one for each night of Advent and uh and we do that for all the nights of Hanukkah as well and we combined the two and called it hanant and but yes it it you won't um if you are a Catholic and you want to celebrate rashash Shana or yum kipur or whatever you can do that without fearing that someone is going to say no that was bad don't ever do that again let's go to our next email it's from John Brooks Randall hello John thanks for sending us an email dear Bob two questions one how do you relate the Jewish understanding of the atonement with the Christian uh and two what did the canonization of E Stein mean to you oh first the atonement and then he sign okay well the atonement I believe that when that Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice for sins up until then we had the levitical priesthood and you know the Levites and slaughtering of animals and all of that stuff Jesus I believe was the final atonement said once and for all God came down and the reason I say the crucifixion was the only part of the mass which is not Jewish because Jews stoned people to death they didn't crucify that was done by the Persians and it was the most humiliating way for a person to die the most you know Exposed on the cross and with your accusers pointing up at you and laughing at you and spitting at you and all that stuff and of all the ways that our Messiah could choose to die he chose that way the most humiliating of all time and he did that because once and for all the atonement the Lamb of God would be slain and by his blood we would be saved and before he was crucified he said I will make a New Covenant with you this is my flesh this is my blood do this in remembrance of me do this he didn't say these are symbols he said this is the real deal guys this is a new covenant you know and so um I believe that Jesus was the ultimate atonement for our sins and I thank God every day for it what about the Edith Stein maybe explain a bit about about her but how did you that mean to you as um I loved it I loved it I know that there was controversy in both uh you know both camps because the Jews now that she was becoming a saint wanted her back as a you know the Jewish fold and the Catholic said well she died for a Catholic cause you know as a Catholic so she Should Be saint but and I'm so glad that our Pope is who he is one of the main reasons other than everything I've described as Wy I'm Catholic is our Pope I mean he's strong he's somebody who stands up and when he blessed you know took Edith Stein oh what do you think about John Paul's recent pilgrimage to oh the Holy Land I'll tell you what I was praying for him all every single day I'm like please dear God don't let there be a lunatic out there or anything else let him have have a safe beautiful trip peaceful trip even a private oh yeah private moments oh yeah and I I I praise God for that let's take uh let's take our next caller this is Valerie from M Missouri uh what's your question for us tonight good evening shalom shalom I am I'm not Catholic but I am a total Jew mhm I'm a Jewish by birth right from my mother but Christian by choice okay my one question I'd really love to meet you but my one question you are praying for Israel because we have to because Desa is a little boy and the syrians are insane we have to pray for Israel because the moment the Arabs get together then the temple of God will be built thank you for well I believe that um we have to pray for Israel and not just Israel as a nation but as a people the Jewish people pray for them and even though God has specific promises for the Jewish people and for the nation of Israel and things like that I believe that every day Pray for Peace not only there but in the whole world you know I love that prayer um by now sis St fosa you know have mercy on us and on the whole world you know and I believe that let's take our next email from Gina uh I would like to ask Mr fisherman about his tow cross that he is he a secular Franciscan or a member of the Brothers and Sisters of Charity very good I am a member of the Brothers and Sisters of Charity both my wife and I and this is a cross piercing a heart a lot of people think it's a spade or a shovel or something like that but it's a towel cross which was designed by St Francis and it's piercing a heart and um I I am a what does that mean for you and your wife being a it's wonderful because um again in the Catholic church we are given these opportunities to to live holy lives right where we are you know where we don't have to you know live in a monastery or whatever but we can belong to an order and live right where we are just you know live simply you know practice simple living and and do things that benefit the Earth instead of hurt the Earth and and benefit ourselves and I think um that that's a beautiful thing and a Beau another reason why I'm glad I'm Catholic U something else which I was wondering if a caller might ask but uh maybe I'll just go ahead and ask how's your family taken your journey well I'll finish the story of my mom because um uh uh towards the end of her life my mom contracted cancer and it was terminal cancer and um she was put into a hospice and of all places it was a Catholic hospice and I walked in there one day and there was a big crucifix on the wall above her bed and I said Mom doesn't that bother you and she said really I don't care anymore I'm just tired and I said okay is there anything I can do for you and she said no no and I used to say things like you know Mom you look good your hair looks good your your blouse looks nice you know anything I could and I'd be in and out as fast as I could you know it was like the smell of the place just chased me out and then finally I prayed in my car and I said God what can I do I don't want my mom to go to hell what can I do and he said to my heart of hearts put down the Bible tell her who I am and I said okay who are you and he said I am a god of the lonely I am a god of the Brokenhearted I'm a god of the friendless and I am a God who cares tell her that and I said okay so the next day I went in and I told my mom that and she could accept that and finally I said mom what is it about Jesus that you don't like and she said really it's the name name see ever since I was a little girl in Brooklyn New York that name has been a curse word and I can't hear it when you say it it sounds like the worst curse word there is do you understand and I said yes I do and I said can I use Jesus's Hebrew name Yeshua and she said I don't have a problem with Yeshua and so I began telling her stories about Yeshua meeting a woman at the well Yeshua healing a blind man and Yeshua healing a lame man and then finally at the end of her life she accepted Yeshua as her Lord and Savior asked Yeshua to forgive her of her sins and rested peacefully with Yeshua as she passed away in her SLE oh praise God the mercy of God Amen mercy God thank you for sharing that uh let me try and get one more email in before I ask you a couple other questions okay this is from Beverly uh Duan the Catholic church has such beautiful art churches statues sacramentals did this appeal to you or not and it probably a side note is what about that old First Command oh boy at first I you know cuz I was told all through Judaism and Christianity Idols don't make Idols graven images but it's a funny thing in our culture we have Hall of Fame Halls of Fame for basketball baseball and you go in there and there's busts of people and their stats and everything else and people who go there and pay money aren't worshiping Babe Ruth they're not worshiping Hank Aaron and when we have statues of our Saints where not worshiping them you know we're just honoring them and for a long time people didn't have books or anything else so statues told stories but everyone is called to be a saint some are good just like everyone can play catch or baseball or basketball but very few ever make it to the elite elite and why not honor them and if a statue or a likeness or something reminds us of what they did these guys changed the world and wore nothing more than sandals to do it that's a amazing in fact even from your Jewish background you would know that when you talked about the the construction of the Ark God very clearly told Moses and the and the Craftsmen to produce Angels that's right on each end of the Ark and so they're producing sarapin statues which there weren't to worship of course right but that would remind them of God's presence when Paul says you know God uh Jesus was um the image of God In the Flesh the word image there is icon that's where we get the word icon and I would like to also say for those of you who have problems with the Eucharist and are wondering about that it is where your flesh and blood gets to meet his flesh and blood and I love telling people that because that was such a revelation for me you know where I'm not playing games anymore but he's really there and I'm really there too and that's what makes me glad to be M of the oh it's a beautiful Myst Jesus said unless you eat my blood right eat my body and drink my blood you cannot have life within you there's a mystery there but that's statements of Jesus in red in red that's right uh couple minutes left talk a bit then in your journey from Jerusalem to to Jesus to Rome how has that Journey particularly uh now becoming a Catholic drawn you closer to your to Yeshua enriched me so much I mean um it has made me not only um examine first off examine my faith really what is it but also to deepen my prayer life and to read books about Saints guys who had changed the world and had done it you know in a and and written about it how to do it you know and and to deepen your own faith these guys weren't you were just like us they suffered in the same area as we do and to read something written in the third or fourth or fifth century blows me away you know so I love that and um uh speaking we were talking of Jerusalem um I know you have a Graphic for St Joseph Communications they are planning a trip for me to go to Jerusalem with my wife and if you would like to go with us please call them and uh you know and also the that's where you can get the tape the tape gives you more Fuller detail both of your journey as well as you gave a talk on the roots of je my full testimony and the Jewish roots of Catholicism as well as Defending Your Faith from a Jewish point of view you want to say hello yes I do I want to say hello to my beloved and you know sometimes when you least expect it God will blow you a kiss and he did with my wife Karen and Karen I just love you to pieces and my two daughters Cara and Kayla my son Justin and all those watching in Montana and in Connecticut thank you for all your prayers and your support and I love you and I'll see you soon Bob thank you very much much thank you for sharing your journey with us God bless you God bless just take take a couple seconds to remind you a number of weeks ago I mentioned that uh if you are interested in getting a pamphlet on reading the Bible and the catechism in a year it's yours for free uh I think they'll put on the screen the address of the coming home network that you can write to get a copy of that we're reprinting them now but they've been made available to you uh by a very kind donor so send if you'd like one and God bless I'll see you again next week h oh

Channel: The Coming Home Network International

Views: 25,554

Keywords:

Id: RNSWk_gKzy4

Length: 56min 26sec (3386 seconds)

Published: Tue Jul 08 2014