DEMIS HASSABIS: Wow. So full house. It's great to be here and it's a
real privilege and honor for me to introduce Denis Villeneuve
to Google and to Deep Mind to come and talk to us about
his amazing new movie, "Blade Runner 2049." So I'm sure like many
of you, "Blade Runner" is actually one of my favorite
films of all time, probably my absolute favorite. And it's actually one
of the main reasons I got into AI in the first place. When I saw it when I
was a sort of teenager-- young teenager-- it
made such an impression on me and how amazing sort of
AI was portrayed in the film. That's why I ended up putting
my whole career on it. And I'm also a huge
fan of Denis' work-- "Sicario," "Arrival,"
"Prisoners." I'm sure you've all
seen these films. He's an amazing film director. So I was so excited
to hear that he was going to take the helm for
the new "Blade Runner" film. So welcome. DENIS VILLENEUVE: Thank you. DEMIS HASSABIS: So
how did you approach sort of trying to do a
sequel to something that was so iconic with all
the legions of fans out there and something that
they're such big fans of, how did you approach that? DENIS VILLENEUVE:
Well, first of all, I have to say before I start that
I feel very humble in front of you, everybody, because
you are all experts in science and in AI, most of you I think. And me, I'm just a filmmaker. I'm just saying I don't
think I have something. I'm happy to be with you
to share my experience about the making of "Blade
Runner 2049" with you today, but I don't think you will
learn anything about your field. I'm feeling a bit nervous. But about the-- no-- first of all, when I heard that
Ridley Scott, Andrew Kosove, and Broderick Johnson from Alcon
were starting a project that will be a follow-up
to the first "Blade Runner," the first
time I heard about it, I said to myself, whoa. What an insane, strong,
beautiful, great, bad idea. Because it's like, like
you, the first movie is, by far, one
my favorite ones. It's a movie that is linked to
the birth of my love to cinema. I mean, where I started
to dream to be a director. So it's like a church. And the thing is
that what convinced me was the screenplay, when
I read the screenplay, when I had a chance to
read the screenplay. The screenplay was written
by Anthony Fincher, who was the writer of
the original movie. He came with a very strong
idea, very strong poem. And then he worked in
collaboration with Ridley. So it's-- from the start,
that secured me a lot, the idea that both fathers were
at the helm of the project. And then Michael
Green came on board and made a very
strong screenplay. And from there, all the pressure
was before I took the decision. Because I had a talk
with Ryan Gosling at one point that we'll resume
the spirit of the journeys. We said to ourselves, both
together at the beginning when we decided to do it,
that our chances of success were very narrow. And to accept that, that
no matter what we will do, we knew that we
would be compared to a masterpiece and a
movie that everybody loved, and that people will come in
theaters with baseball bats. And by the way, I am a huge fan. If the movie had been
done by someone else, I would be the same. I would go the theater. And knowing that, it
gave us-- and when you accept that, you accept
that fate, then you become free. And it's a very-- so you are not bound to
success or you are not thinking about the
result. You are thinking about creating
a pure artistic act. And I think everybody shared
the same pressure on the crew, from Roger Deakins to Dennis
Gassner to all the people that worked on the movie that. We all felt that pressure. And the only way to work on that
pressure was to get rid of it by accepting that fact. Yeah. DEMIS HASSABIS: So
Ridley, how much creative input did he have
once the filming started? Did he have a strong
idea in mind already? DENIS VILLENEUVE:
Ridley, at the beginning was supposed to direct it. And he didn't for a simple
reason, that he was too busy. He has scheduled a lot
of projects in his mind. And on the other
end, Harrison Ford-- let's face it-- is
no spring chicken. I mean, he wanted to shoot soon. The screenplay was ready,
Harrison loved the screenplay, and so that's where
I came on board. And so the input
of Ridley is huge because he created
the screenplay. He wrote the screenplay
with Anton and Michael. So that's huge, the
birth of the ideas. From there, when I met
him, to get on board I needed his blessing. That was one of my, let's say,
conditions to get on board. I need to meet the man, look
at him in the eyes, and say, is it OK? And he was very gracious,
very gentlemanly. He welcomed me, said that he
was happy that I would do it. And he basically give
me all the elements, the genesis of what was
behind the first movie, all the sources of inspiration,
the background, the context of the first
movie, and what was behind it. But for this one,
he said, it's yours. You're totally free. If you need me, I'll be on
the other end of the phone, but otherwise,
you're totally free. He gave me what we say
in French carte blanche. It mean it's my movie,
it's my responsibility. So if you don't like
it, it's my fault. And it's the only
way I was able is to work with Ridley behind
me totally impossible. He was away at the time. He was doing "Prometheus,"
very far away. I was very-- only way I was-- and for that I'm very
grateful because that was very generous of him. DEMIS HASSABIS:
So did he already have this idea in
mind when he was doing the original film of a sequel or
what the sequel would be about? When did that come about? DENIS VILLENEUVE: I heard
different stories about that. I remember he told
me that at one point, the original "Blade Runner" was
born at the time where there was "Star Wars" and
"Indiana Jones," all the birth of those sequels. And I know that Ridley really
loved the first "Star Wars,"-- in fact, he was
traumatized when he saw it. He was like, oh
god, it's so good. So I think there was
an idea at the time that he could have done a
sequel with that character. He knew that the
universe was bigger. It's just that the way
the production ended, it was not possible. It just took the
skills of a producer at the outcome to be able to-- it was like basically
the rights of the movie were in kind of a no
man's land, a war zone. DEMIS HASSABIS: Right. DENIS VILLENEUVE:
It was a kind of-- DEMIS HASSABIS: So
what process did you go through to make
it your own universe and your own story? DENIS VILLENEUVE:
That's the thing is that it took a lot
of time and meditation to be able to make my-- It's a thing to make a movie. It's a lot of work. But to take someone
else's dream, to take someone else's
characters to aesthetics, it's like-- so the way to do it is I
started by saying to myself, it was for me 2049 as a kind
of love letter to the original "Blade Runner." I mean, we decided-- I said we because I started
right at the beginning to work with Roger Deakins. I brought him on board
quite early this time because I was doing finishing
"Arrival" at the time and I needed his input,
his wisdom, his ideas right at the start. It was such a huge task,
so I needed a close partner from the start. And we spent several weeks
in Montreal in a hotel room with a storyboard artist who
started to draw, to interpret, to transform the screenplay
into a movie there together. So I will say that
by far, the movie was Deakonized from the start. He had very, very strong
input in the movie. The idea was that when I
am working with someone on a story, I always try
to find an intimate way to get into the
story to where I have to create an intimate link. And one of them, it's going
to sound trivial for you, but it was huge for
me, aesthetically. It The climate in
the screenplay was different than the first movie. It was more like there was the
idea that there will be snow, there will be winter present. And I mean, as a
Canadian, there's one thing I know
about it is snow. That I can deal with. And it has a strong influence
and strong impact on the light, on the atmospheres. And so to approach
Ridley's universe through the lens of something
that is so familiar to me, it helped me to define what I
will keep from the first movie and what I will end,
and what I will create different to make it my own. And climate was a strong
thing, I will say. DEMIS HASSABIS: Yeah. I mean, it has such
a strong style, the first "Blade Runner." I mean, one of the
things is the landscape. And one thing I always found
interesting about it was this juxtaposition between very
modern technology-- obviously, the replicants
themselves, flying cars-- but also combined with quite
old technology, like pay phones and even the Voight-Kampf
machine was very analog, right? So you have this
sort of combination of analog, quite old retro
things and very modern things. DENIS VILLENEUVE: As
I was doing the movie, sometimes I was
feeling I was more doing a period movie
than a sci-fi movie because you guys are so ahead. You make our lives very
difficult to make sci-fi films. It's very often-- and there's a
lot of work that is done today that is virtual,
that is abstract, that for storytelling
and also technology make a job of detective
stories quite boring. You know, OK, I'm going
to find something. You take a keyboard and-- So its like, there's nothing
more boring for a director than to shoot a character
in front of a screen. DEMIS HASSABIS: Yeah, exactly. DENIS VILLENEUVE: And
so the screenwriter had a brilliant idea. I loved this idea because
it created a landscape that allowed me to create
an adventure, which is a thing I can talk about. In between the first
movie and the second one there was an event, an EMP, that
created a blackout, which is that humanity lost their data. The digital world went-- I'm sorry, guys. But it happened. And so the world in 2049, we
went back to analog technology. So we went back to an analog
world, where they rely only on real, on concrete-- not
concrete, what's it, [FRENCH],, translator? Something that's tangible,
tangible technology, analog technology. And that for me was a blessing
because it allowed my character to travel, to open doors, to
enter rooms, to meet people, to-- DEMIS HASSABIS: Get
away from the screen. DENIS VILLENEUVE: Get away
from the screen, yeah. DEMIS HASSABIS: Fantastic. DENIS VILLENEUVE: And I'm about
to make another sci-fi movie. And my goal is to try
to avoid screens again, to try to be in contact
with reality more. DEMIS HASSABIS: Fantastic. So another really
important, I think, sort of pillar of the
atmosphere in the first film was the music. I think the Vangelis score
is kind of an amazing score and actually created a lot
of the feeling in the film. How did you approach the
music for the new film? DENIS VILLENEUVE: It's a
very, very important element. it was such iconic score because
it was like the landscape that we all saw in
the first movie that were so dystopic and dystopian
and dark and depressive. But on top of it, you had that
beautiful, melancholic, poetic, very delicate music with
those dark spectral drums that created the kind of
religious feeling on top of it. And we did a lot of
exploration with music. But when you do a
"Blade Runner" movie, you cannot go very
far from the CS-80, which is the original
synthesizer that Vangelis used. And I insisted, and at one
point I had to put my foot down. I said, OK, we are
going in that direction. As much as Roger
Deakins and I tried to make sure that some
of the parts of the movie would be very
close aesthetically to the first movie because it's
still a detective film noir. It's a "Blade Runner"
movie, you have to be in that kind
of aesthetic zone. And it's the same for the sound. So we worked very hard to
create a soundtrack that would be as close to the sound
effects like in the first one and. At the same time, have
that kind of melancholia that is so beautiful and
that very specific sound. Those CS-80s, they are beasts. They are really impressive
machines, very delicate. And I'm very proud of the score. I must say that's
the thing that-- when you make a movie-- I just finished a
movie a few weeks ago. I have no distance. But there are some
elements of it and I know that the score,
Ben Wallfisch and Hans Zimmer did a fantastic job. DEMIS HASSABIS: Yeah. I can't wait to hear that. So it sounds like you're a
big fan of science fiction. I mean, you say you're doing
another science fiction film. But it's interesting that as an
AI practitioner, often in films portrayal of AI and
robots is sometimes negative and antagonistic,
with some notable exceptions like the robots in
"Interstellar," TARS and CASE. They were fantastic. So I hope you produce some
films with a positive image of AI in the future. But it was interesting,
in the original "Blade Runner," the replicants were-- maybe they were the
heroes of the film. I was always thinking do
you feel like Rutger Hauer and Roy Batty, his character,
was actually the hero? DENIS VILLENEUVE:
That's the thing that I think got people
confused about the first film, is that Harrison Ford was at
the time Han Solo and Indiana Jones, was not a hero. He was a dark hero, anti-hero. And that was very
confusing for people. No, definitely, the replicants
are a mirror of ourselves. They represent our anger to
our maker, our human condition. DEMIS HASSABIS: I think one
of the things that we all fell in love with in the first
"Blade Runner''-- and I'm sure you're continuing
in the new film-- is it's not really a film
about technology, in some ways, right? It's actually about
philosophy and deeper things like consciousness, identity,
and what it means to be alive, mortality. I think that's
what it was about. DENIS VILLENEUVE:
I will say again that we respected that
spirit in the second one. The technology is there to
create a more dynamic story, but it's not in the
foreground at all. I will say it's there to
be exciting, but still the core of the movie
is about humanity and what it means to be a human,
how as humans in some ways we are programmed ourselves
from our education and from our genetic background
and how can we get free and can we get out of the road? Can we get free, get
rid of that background and have more freedom? That's the way I see
the movie right now. The movie's about broken dreams,
too, which is very melancholic. And there's a
beautiful melancholia that was the main
thing I was trying to project, to have the same
kind of beautiful melancholy. DEMIS HASSABIS: Yeah. I mean, "Blade Runner"
seemed to suggest that the difference between
replicants and humans was sort of the emotional,
empathetic side, right, and this idea of memories
and having episodic memory and memory of your past. And I guess another thing
it seemed to suggest was that the longer
the replicants lived, the more emotions they
would sort of develop, so hence the termination date. But I don't know if you're
exploring this in the new film, but what if they do live longer
and they do develop emotions and feelings and empathy? Would there be much
difference, in your opinion, then of retiring a replicant
and killing a human? DENIS VILLENEUVE: But
in the first movie, the thing is that they
had a short-term life, they developed anger
toward their maker. And in the second
movie, I can say that, of course, like the
screenwriter used to say to me, is if a company
developed an iPad that was able to kill
people, you would try to find a solution
before selling another iPad. You would try to find a
new way to create them. So definitely, they
are new replicants in the movie that have been
with a longer lifespan. Because if you think about it,
if they didn't add a longer lifespan, 30 years later there
will be no more problems. So it means that they are
they created a new line of replicants with a long-term. But that didn't solve
all the problems because there's always
that strong pressure, that strong anxiety that
came from conditions. If you are human or
bioengineered human, you're still dealing
with the fact that you don't know why
you are in this place, and the fact that-- also, there's a lot of
factors that the replicants are basically
designed to be slaves. So I think that in
the second movie, it's more about being
considered as a real citizens. That is one of the main topics. DEMIS HASSABIS: So
as an artist, do you feel that there are
some aspects of humanity in being human that could never
be simulated artificially? Would you say? DENIS VILLENEUVE: Help me. OK. It's like the
complexity of humanity, that struggle to get
rid of the voices that are coming from the
past that I think we can't recreate with AI. The fact that my weakness right
now, how do you recreate that? And those weakness are
a very complex product of the education I
received and the gift that I received from the
parents through the generations. It's your problem. DEMIS HASSABIS:
So I mean, I think the last scene of "Blade
Runner" is probably I would say one of the greatest
scenes in all the cinema with Roy Batty. And he Rutger Hauer sort
of releases the dove into the air as he dies. What do you think
that symbolizes? I always thought that symbolized
that the replicant felt he had a soul. Is that what you read from it? DENIS VILLENEUVE: That's
the way I read it, too. And it's a beautiful image. And what I love also
about this image is that it came
from Rutger Hauer. I love it. I love it when actors
bring strong ideas and when an actor is
like totally engulfed, totally imbued, totally in
position of his character. Good actors, strong
actors, they can become muses, and they
bring strong ideas. And I had the same experience
with Ryan Gosling, who brought some very strong ideas. And there are some
scenes that I'm very proud in the movie
that, honestly, one of my favorite scenes
is a Ryan Gosling idea. DEMIS HASSABIS: So you like
your actors to improvise. DENIS VILLENEUVE:
I deeply love it. I'm from the documentary,
where the thing I love about documentaries is
that you put your camera in life and suddenly, sometimes
life organizes itself. There's an accident in
front of the camera that creates a strong cinematic
moment, cinematic poetry in front of the camera. And the way I find it back
in fiction is with actors. And there's nothing
more exciting for me than when an actor comes on
set and says, I didn't sleep. I have this idea, and I
have to try this idea. That I love. And I know that it's the
same with Roger Deakins. We tried to create to be ready. We storyboard
everything, it's planned. But we always keep
a space on set to make sure that the actors
have the space to recreate something that was not planned. It's always linked with
the scene, of course. But there's nothing
more exciting for me than that, an idea
that I was not expecting, that surprised me. I call it the chaos of life. And that's why I think
that computer generated characters are always-- most of the time,
they are created by people behind the camera. They cannot create
that spontaneity, those accidents that bring
sparks of life and that surprise. And that's why we are becoming
so surprised and excited as an audience member. That's why cinema can evolve. That's where cinema can
evolve is when we capture life in front of the camera. And there are several moments
like that in "Blade Runner 2049," and those are
my favorite ones. DEMIS HASSABIS: Yeah. I can't imagine that
film without Rutger Hauer sort of improvising
those last lines. DENIS VILLENEUVE: Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. And that's one of
the reasons also why I love real sets, a real
environment that we constructed the sets and-- DEMIS HASSABIS: Because it
stimulates that in the actors, probably. DENIS VILLENEUVE: The actor
can focus on his interior and not on trying to imagine
and to be in relationship with something that is virtual. That's why I don't
like green screens. I like real environments. DEMIS HASSABIS: Yeah. Fantastic. Well, I'm sure there's many
questions from the audience. We should open it up to the
audience now for questions. Please. We should have some
mics around the place. AUDIENCE: Am I allowed to ask
a question about "Arrival?" DENIS VILLENEUVE: Yes. I think so. AUDIENCE: Or will I get bounced? So yes? DENIS VILLENEUVE: Yes. AUDIENCE: OK, great. So "Arrival," amazing. That was my baseball bat moment. The Ted Chiang short
story, "Story of Your Life" is so impactful, so beautiful. But it's so tied up in
language and the written word and the way that he sort of-- I don't know who's read it, but
go and read it, it's awesome. But the way it's tied up in
language and the written word is so complicated. How did you approach turning
the story of time and language and how it affects the
mind into something that you could put on screen? DENIS VILLENEUVE: You know what? When you do an adaptation,
it's a very violent process because there's a
brutal moment when you need to destroy the original. I don't know if you will read
all the short story from Ted Chiang, "Story of Your Life." It's a little
masterpiece, it's a gem. And as you rightly
said, the way you play with language
and time, it's so beautiful and so
clever and so brilliant. And to do a movie out
of it, it's like-- First of all, when I read
it and a producer offered me to adapt it, I didn't know
how to because I said to them, it's a fantastic story. And there's a movie
there, but how? Because it's a story about
a repetitive process, an intellectual process. And to find a cinematic
structure out of this, it took screenwriter Eric
Heisserer that came on board and created this idea
of creating a tension-- a geopolitic tension--
that was making it maybe a more accessible story. And that was the key. Then the rest was
a long process. The challenge of
this movie was really to make sure that--
because basically, it's a teacher that meets
students and they are teaching a language together. So how do you make
this a dynamic story that will not feel repetitive
and that will stay? It took a long time in
the screenwriting process, even in shooting and the
movie transformed itself-- not the main story,
but the process to find the right rhythm
and the right elements. It's not a simple question. It was a puzzle to make,
by far the longest editing sessions of my life, the
most complex sessions. And it was not a given
at the beginning. It was very, very
difficult movie to do. Yeah. AUDIENCE: Well, thank
you for doing it so well. DENIS VILLENEUVE: But that's
a very huge compliment. Thank you. Thank you. AUDIENCE: There are, I believe,
at least six different cuts of the original
"Blade Runner" with, in some cases, noticeably
different endings. Did that make doing
a sequel difficult? DENIS VILLENEUVE: Yeah. Yeah, that's a good question. The thing is that basically,
I stood between both fathers because Harrison Ford
and Ridley Scott, they still don't
agree about that. And I found the answer in
Philip K. Dick's novel, where the characters-- I love the idea that they are
doubting about themselves. The cops, the blade runners,
in the Philip K. Dick novel, they are sometimes
saying to themselves, maybe I should do the
Voight-Kampf on myself because this morning, I'm
not sure if I'm human or not. And I love this idea. I love the idea of
keeping the question alive and to walk the
fine line of doubt. It's a thing that reassures
me from the start. Hampton Fancher wrote a story. The story of "2049" is
basically walking this line, is Deckard a replicant or not. And I love the fact that
he stayed on the question and not giving any answers. So if Ridley Scott was sitting
here, he would look at me and say, what the hell
is he talking about? But me, I love the fact
that Deckard is doubting about his own identity. He's unsure about that. That I love. That for me is like what a
part of the movie is about. DEMIS HASSABIS: One
of the questions I want most wanted to ask
you, actually, was could you clear up the 30-year
mystery I had of when I used to spend
hours arguing with my friends about was Deckard a replicant? But then the
director's cut seemed to confirm, in my
opinion, for sure, with the unicorn in his dream
and then the unicorn origami. So are you going to answer that? But then you show an
aged Harrison Ford, so then now it seems to suggest
either the replicants can age or he's not a replicant. DENIS VILLENEUVE: You
have to watch the movie. DEMIS HASSABIS: Right. So do you actually answer it? DENIS VILLENEUVE: The
thing is that, honestly, the thing I can say
without giving any spoilers is that I think that at the
end, questions create vertigo, questions like why am I? One of the reasons
I love sci-fi is because it allows you,
in a very dynamic way, to approach
existential questions. And those existential
questions bring you in contact with
the unknown, which creates a beautiful vertigo. And I love this feeling. And is Deckard a human or not? For me, I love the question. The answer is less
interesting for me. DEMIS HASSABIS: Yeah. You want to keep the tension. The tension is a big part of it. So I mean, I've read
interviews with Harrison Ford. And obviously, it's
famous that he apparently didn't like the original. But is it just that
different interpretations of the original, is that
what the argument was about? Because presumably,
he does like it because he's starring
in the sequel. DENIS VILLENEUVE: I think
that Harrison, from what I understood, and I don't want
to put words in his mouth, but if you are asking me,
from what I understand, he felt that a man-- a human being-- falling in love
with an artificial human being was quite poetic and strong
and beautiful and rose a lot of questions than two
androids-- not androids-- replicants falling in love. He felt it was less interesting
for him, the idea that-- And I think that for him, when
he shot the movie as an actor, he played it as a human. I mean, he has a
different reaction. He has different qualities,
he has different-- and it drove him
through all this. So when he learned later that
he was maybe a replicant, I think he said, what? And he still to this day--
but yeah, love it together. I mean, I think they
had a tough shoot. I think that they deeply
respect each other and-- DEMIS HASSABIS:
Maybe that tension is what made it so
great, actually, the tension between the two
of them, the creative tension. DENIS VILLENEUVE: Yes. Yes, definitely. DEMIS HASSABIS: Well, listen. I think that's all we've
got time for today. But I'm so looking forward
to seeing the new film and maybe getting some answers
or some more questions. DENIS VILLENEUVE: Exactly. Thank you, everybody. DEMIS HASSABIS: Thank you. [APPLAUSE]
CS-80 ....
Unzips ...
Soundtrack discussion starts around 13 minutes into the video.
The CS-80 is a brilliant, warm synthesizer. The CS-80 is warm in spite of the cold nature of similair synthesizers. It has that in common with the solina strong ensemble, an entirely different sound but similar in their warmth. The sounds that the CS-80 are capable are very heartfelt and emotive, Vangelis made a brilliant decision using it to score the original Blade Runner.
Well, didn't Hans take over anyway? How do we know if this is relevant or not?
not happy with arturia?
Just throwing this out there but Lorne Balfe did an amazing job scoring Ghost in The Shell and a score by him would’ve been awesome
On a related note, is anyone else excited for Deckard's Dream?
The synths used were mostly virtual (if not all). A modified version of Zebra and Diva. Both from UHE.
Hans Zimmer has been using Zebra with special modifications in all his films since The Dark Knight.