Bill Wiese - Once Saved, Always Saved? Part 1

i'm bill wiese on november 23 1998 god gave me a vision that changed my life forever i spent 23 minutes in hell because of that my wife and i are on a mission to share the truth about hell because it will affect where you spend eternity and how you live life now one second after you die it's too late too late to live a life of purpose too late to change your eternity or someone else's the question is what will you do with the time you have here on the earth welcome to living for eternity we're excited about today's broadcast we're going to discuss something that's very controversial today we're going to discuss what some call once saved always saved or eternal security can a christian lose their salvation or perhaps better stated is can a christian walk away from their salvation can a christian fall into a sinful lifestyle no longer willing to repent and abandon their faith and were they a true christian in the first place right we will examine the scriptures on both sides of this debate today that's right you know and there's good scholars on both sides of this issue and you know there's scripture on both sides also but the thing that troubles me is the those who believe in eternal security um they're dogmatic about it and you know i don't know how you can be that dogmatic because there are about 13 verses that seem to indicate you cannot but there's about 50 verses that seem to indicate you can sure but you can walk away you can walk away or forfeit your uh salvation or forsake your salvation so that's enough scripture to cause us to walk more in the fear of the lord to me and not be so dogmatic on that one on that side so what bill can we agree on i mean today maybe just to start out what can we agree on um i would say we could agree on salvation how how we are really saved right right yes we are saved by grace through faith so that's there's no works it works ephesians 2 8 9 it's very clear titus 3 5 and some others very clear we're saved through by grace through faith not by our works so we're making that clear but works should follow once we are saved and what about the person that does not have works following exactly that's what we want to cover today so we cannot earn our salvation we've established that right okay very clear okay so so the the one to believe in eternal security they're saying our eternal security is a result of god keeping us not us maintaining our own salvation so that's the trouble they have it's like you are maintaining your salvation if you're looking at the works you're doing you know and so they're saying you can't do anything it's a free gift and that's true it is totally a free gift but what about that person that truly got born again they're saved but they start compromising they start playing around with sin now sin is lures you away it's deceptive and now they begin living with their girlfriend uh doing things that are sinful and they're living in a sinful state for years and they're not convicted they're not uh yeah they don't repent they don't have no conviction to repent right so there's no works that follow but yet they're mouthing and saying they're saved and they truly did get born again say they really in their heart got born again now the eternal security would say they never were saved in the first place exactly but would that be the case for every single person i don't know how you can draw that wide blanket blanket yeah over every single person that they were never saved in the first place plus what about the backslider right i mean there are those that backslide and like you said sin hardens it deceives and it dulls a person so why all the warnings in the scripture about you know deception about you know my brethren don't fall into error you know do not be deceived you know the the epistles especially warn us over and over right do not be deceived there's many many warnings says we're going to look at some of them you know this topic is really extensive you know you could go on for days without but we're not going to cover everything but we're going to try to cover enough that it'll um leave us with you know the fear the lord fear the lord bottom line walk in the fear of the lord okay well which scriptures you wanted to start with you had some in james that you were talking about okay we're not earning our salvation it's not by works but works should follow because we are a new creation in christ we've been born again we have a new spirit and a new heart so right so what would some of those be well starting with james 2 14-24 i'm just going to read this what does it profit my brethren if someone says he has faith but does not have works can faith save him but some will say you have faith and i have works show me your faith without your works and i will show you my faith by my works and then he says that faith without works is dead and he goes on was not abraham our father justified by works when he had offered isaac his son upon the altar you see then how that by works a man is justified and not by faith only so you can see that that it's works should follow once we're saved so for the person has no works you either never were saved or you did fall away abandon your faith is the way it looks to me in the scriptures as we're going to go through some of these and like jesus said you'll know them by their fruit right that's right that's right so there should be evidence of salvation right following now let's go through a few scriptures that they will say the eternal security will use okay here's this the first one says first john 2 19. they went out from us but they were not of us for if they had been of us they would no doubt have continued with us but they went out that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us so they're saying see if a person departs they were never a saved person in the first place and that's true for the most part i would agree with that and in that context john is talking about there are many uh antichrists in the world today right right so he's kind of discussing it in that context also right right it's true addressing false teachers or right but still does that mean that every person that was ever saved that was you know proclaiming to be saved that uh they never were saved in the first place yeah and that's what they would claim eternal security people would say they wouldn't we're never saved right but does that mean all that's what we got you know and and also it doesn't negate god's faithfulness god is always faithful he can keep us from stumbling and he's we're kept by the power of god it says though through faith right right isn't that in first peter 1 5. we're kept through faith well we're not going to exercise any faith if our hearts condemning us because we're living in a backslidden lifestyle where's the through faith part now right with that verse so you know there's god's part and there's man's part we have a part to do so um you know if you want to label that maintaining your salvation it's just called flat old-fashioned obedience and it's all through the scriptures scriptures right right so but here's another one uh first peter 1 5 who are kept by the power of god through faith for salvation who are kept by the power of god so they're saying seek god is the one keeping you i know notice it says that's what i just said right faith right but this is the verse they use so again and then ii timothy 4 7 paul said i have kept the faith so there was his part exactly yeah to contin continue another one is jude 1 24-25 now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you faultless so again that's one they would stand on and saying see he is the one keeping you from stumbling uh but god is perfect though in what he does his part is perfect right we don't argue with that god is faithful and his part is perfect but we still have a part of coming to him being in relationship with him calling out upon him you know following him and obeying him so we have that part to do we do there's always our people god doesn't force us to do these things we have a free will right john 6 37-39 says all that the father gives me will come to me and the one who comes to me i will by no means cast out this is the will of the father who sent me that all of all he has given me i should lose nothing but should raise it up at the last day well that is true god will not lose anyone that comes to him what about the one that departs from him there you go i mean yeah he will not cast out anyone who can't come that's right he's faithful he won't cast you out but does that mean a person cannot depart and walk away from the faith and abandon his spirit exactly well it comes to me it says right and then john 11 26 says and whosoever lives and believes in me shall never die okay so some of those people would say those who believe in me see bill it's faith in jesus only it's nothing else you're adding to it what would you say it's not just believing only you know jesus said my mother and brethren are those who hear the word of god and do it there's our part it's not just believing in encompasses more than just yeah i can believe that because the devils believe and tremble that's right james 2 19. so it's works that follow if you're not doing what god says then you're not saved but and but that person can depart exactly well the believing that just summed it up believing means more than just mentally assenting to the fact that jesus is god right and that he's the way to heaven you have to make it a heart belief which would result in actions that's right and after you're saved not to earn your salvation not out of performance but you should be changed that there's now fruit you know there's now evidence that you're saved okay what about this one in john 10 28 and 29 that they that they uh talk about go ahead you read it um neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand no man is able to pluck is a able to pluck them out of my father's hand so they say see you're in jesus hands and the father's hands so there's nobody that can get you out of both her hands and that's true that's true i agree no one can pluck you out of god's hand but can you walk away from god can you depart and walk out of his hand and the reason why that indicates you can because the word pluck right maybe read that definition okay pluck which is how the king james words it or snatch is the same greek word in first thessalonians 4 17 when it's talking about us as believers being caught up or seized or snatched away it's taken by force so something external has to snatch you or pluck you you can't say that about yourself that i you know no one includes me it doesn't include include you you you can't not pluck yourself that you know what i mean out of a situation or out of it you can't snatch yourself yeah exactly he's talking about no one else can snatch you away from him that's true exactly but that word snatch alone means to take that by force or c's yeah an external someone that's doing it that's indicating an external so we can't they can't use that that well even ourselves no one see that's what they try to say so i think that's a faulty um logic just by the definition of the word pluck or snatch right so that one doesn't stand okay what about romans 8 38 and 39 the famous for i am persuaded that neither death nor life nor angels nor principalities nor powers nor things present nor things to come nor height nor depth or nor any other creature shall be able to separate us from the love of god which is in christ jesus our lord well that is true no one can separate us from the love of god but no notice it says also nor any other creature not yourself some other creature so it's all these external things again no powers no angels so you know it's all external things trying to take us away from it nobody can take no one can exactly but you can take yourself away exactly free will the free will that comes back to the free will okay and then what about this one john 17 12 where they said uh those that thou gave us me i have kept and none of them is lost right and so who is he talking about there that's john 17 12. you go to john 18 8 9 this is jesus again he says let he says as they're arresting him he said let these go their way the apostles that were there that the saying might be fulfilled which he spake of them which thou gavest me have i lost none so he was talking about specifically the apostles and he said to those arresting him let these go their way in other words don't kill them let them go he wasn't talking about them dying spiritually but physically and he was just focusing on just the apostles because he says except for i haven't lost any except for the son of perdition right judas yeah so so he was talking about just the apostles and just their physical life so can you draw it to the conclusion that it's also talking about spiritually not just physically and not in the context yeah take it out of that and and it's possible it could be but i don't know i mean it's not clear that it's not talking about only physical and owning the apostles okay interestingly clear okay so i know there's a lot to cover and we don't have a lot of time um okay what about this one that they the ephesian scriptures that they use um and grieve not the holy spirit of god whereby you are sealed unto the day of redemption right now where are you at i'm on ephesians 4 30 about being sealed oh yeah and then ephesians 1 also talks about the word sealed as uh in the strong's number 4972 uh i can't even pronounce the word but anyway it's to mark to put a mark on an object to show possession or identity or security so see they're saying that god's got his mark you're secure in him well you are marked by the holy spirit is what it's saying is when you're saved you have evidence that you're saved by the holy spirit you're marked with the holy spirit and that is true 100 but does that indicate that that is eternally secure because you have the holy spirit is it saying that that you have eternal security so yeah and he's talking about like in ephesians 1 about your inheritance it's a guarantee for your inheritance but can we freely disinherit ourselves yeah or walk away and you know that's the question i think and you know they would say oh no you can't how do you get unsealed well what does that word mean it's you you know it is saying you're his right it's saying can you walk away from being his i mean it just again it's all coming down to that point so let's continue um because i know then there's a lot of scriptures that indicate they were never saved in the first place is what a lot of them would say right right right so if you want to go through those real quickly i know we don't have time to go through all of them but um which i know just pick up romans 8 9 it says you however are not in the flesh but in the spirit if in fact the spirit of god dwells in you anyone who does not have the spirit of christ does not belong to him so it sounds clear and simple right so they weren't saved in the first place right and it says he that saith i know him and keepeth not his commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him that is first john 2 4. so those are people that are they were never saved in the first place but there's a lot of people that can be deceived and think they're saved right right right but their point is that that person was never saved in the first place correct you know and that that this scripture is saying that saying that yes which i agree so there are a lot of people that were never saved in the first place right they may be mouthed it they confess jesus they mentally ascended to the fact that jesus is the son of god you can mentally ascend to that and say yeah i can believe that jesus died for our sins i believe that but then go live your own lifestyle and sinful lifestyle not really repented you know and repentance is a requirement for salvation jesus said in luke 13 3 unless a man repent you shall all likewise perish and many other scriptures about repentance so this person never really repented they just mentally ascended so i agree that's a good point yeah and then this one in matthew 15 13 through 14 every plant which my father has not planted will be uprooted let them alone they are blind leaders of the blind and that was obvious because jesus was speaking of the pharisees right right so they're obviously they were they're not saved yeah they were never saved right in the first place so there's there's many more scriptures on this never being saved in the first place i understand that and that's probably most people that are living in a sinful lifestyle they never really were saved in the first place so i think it's rare for a person to really be born again to fall away and to the point to the point where they're they've abandoned their abandoned their faith i think it's rare but it but it is awesome it just seems to be possible from the many warnings okay and then okay what about you know the ones that say you can walk away i know they use the term lose their salvation you don't really lose salvation like you're gonna lose a set of keys you're good you know you would depart from the faith or walk away from your salvation and something to think about also is if god will allow people to choose hell with their free will why wouldn't he allow us to depart from our salvation or depart from the faith and reject him with our free will you know i think that's the biggest argument against eternal security is free will free will because that's a good point because many people and jesus said in matthew 7 that most are going to hell on the wide broad path and narrow is the the gate or the road to salvation and jesus said few find it so many are going to hell few are going to heaven in jesus words right so god's allowing that so why not allow us to get deceived by our own free will harden our heart get so dull that we reject and abandon our faith now i would say it's rare because if we're truly born again again we have the holy spirit right you know he's going to be working with us convicting us yeah our heart's going to convict us he's going to send people over and over to the backslider god loves his kids he's waiting patiently for them to repent right right like the prodigal son right right he he long suffering he's long does bear with people that are backslidden he will work with him he'll send people like you said and pull them back but there there are people that do depart from the faith by their own will they want us and they they play around with sin to the point where they're so deceived and so hardened they no longer that's the dead at all and that's why the warnings paul gave exactly and we'll get to some of those but okay let's just read two scriptures in the old and then we'll go to the new testament these are old testament but i just want to read these ezekiel 18 24 says but when the righteous turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does shall he live all his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned in his trespass that he has trespassed and in his sin that he ascend in them shall he die okay that's pretty clear so he was righteous doing righteous things but it will not be remembered if he starts diving into sin and so forth then you get a second scripture that supports that jeremiah 8 5-13 says when why then is this people of jerusalem slid back by a perpetual backsliding they hold fast deceit they refuse to return no man repents him of his wickedness therefore shall they fall among them that fall in the time of their visitation they shall be cast down saith the lord i will surely consume them says the lord so there's the backslider he's saying they'll be consumed uh yeah and they'll fall away it's saying no man repented so you have a choice to repent or not they fell away they could have repented and come back so again again to me that goes back to we must continue in our faith we must remain steadfast in the faith right let's go on with a few romans 11 19-22 says that will say then the branches were broken off that i might be grafted in he's talking about israel was broken off because they rejected jesus christ so the branches were broken off that i might be grafted in that's the gentiles well because of unbelief they were broken off the jews were broken off and you stand by faith you gentiles be not high-minded but fear for if god spared not the natural branches take heed least he also spare not thee therefore consider the goodness and severity of god on those who fell severity but toward you goodness if you continue in his goodness otherwise you also will be cut off to me that's pretty clear that's right now they say that's just talking about the jews and gentiles in general but how would that not be personal also yeah and that's how the word works it's very multi-layered a lot of times right so yeah he's saying that don't be high-minded you're going to be cut off just like they were and you have to have been a part of it to be taken away you had to have belongs right and he said you stand by faith so they were they believed these are believers okay here's another controversial one um is about like in mark 11 25 and 26 it says uh talking about forgiving or holding on to unforgiveness right so it says and whenever you stand praying so who's he talking to whenever you stand praying he's talking to believers jesus if you have anything against anyone forgive him that your father in heaven may also forgive you your trespasses but if you do not forgive neither will your father in heaven forgive your trespasses and how many people hold on to bitterness and unforgiveness and they are christians right right but that sounds dangerous to me matthew 6 15 says again but if you forgive not mend their trespasses neither will your father forgive your trespasses now the once they've always saved eternal security say that well that's just broken fellowship that it's not talking about losing your salvation because you're not saved by um by forgiveness by forgiving others that doesn't get you saved which is true but why did jesus point this particular thing out then and can you get to heaven if you're not forgiven you're not forgiven of a sin okay and then i'm going to read something because this goes a long way all right let me read this one first though because then this goes along with this verse okay with mark 11 25 26 also matthew 18 32 and 35 says then his master after he had called him said to him you wicked servant i forgave you all that debt because you begged me should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant just as i had pity on you and his master was angry and delivered him to the tormentors until he should pay all that was due to him so my heavenly father also will do to you if each of you from his heart does not forgive his brother his trespasses his brother so that's interesting he was he was forgiven of a huge debt that he could never pay back scholars say it was way beyond a lifetime of work that he could never pay it back and the master forgave him of that great debt then he went out and he some guy owed him a small amount and he wouldn't forgive him that small amount so then the master said you wicked servant you were forgiven i gave you pity and forgave you of all that dead and you wouldn't even forgive him a little so i'm retracting the forgiveness i gave you and now i'm delivering you to the tormentors wow he's retracted attractiveness that's interesting so that supports then if you don't forgive neither father in heaven forgive you that sounds like salvation to me even though they say it's just broken fellowship where do you get that i mean that doesn't say that in the scripture it doesn't say it's only broken fellowship no so so it's just interesting god specifically pointed out unforgiveness because we're forgiven of so much and you know i know christians today that say you know they're they're we know they're saved and they'll say i just can't forgive i cannot forgive that person they really wrong me i'll never forgive them and they hold that in their heart now they're in dangerous ground to me see but if you believe in eternal security then you're more apt to stay that way but if you don't believe in eternal security you would think maybe i could maybe i could be delivered to the tormentors and retracted my forgiveness retracted like these verses so now you're acting more walking in the fear of the lord and you think maybe i better forgive them i don't want to take a chance and lose my salvation yeah exactly i mean see so with it it puts more the fear of the lord in you right okay i can see that we're gonna have a part two with this we have to have a part because there's so much to cover there is but we are gonna do it in two parts and no more but um yeah i really want to get to what i wanted to read and we'll pick this up next time but bill how would you wrap this up or how would you today just summarize for our viewers you know right you know i just wrap it up like this you know paul said in philippians 2 12 to work out your own salvation with fear and trembling why did he say that my wife and i you know would rather err on the caution side and walk more circumspect and end the fear of the lord you know believing you can never forsake your salvation can cause a person to perhaps you know live compromised in their walk you know if that person thought they may not make it to heaven because of their backslidden lifestyle then they might straighten up walk in holiness and continue steadfast firm in the faith now these verses we have presented should cause us to examine ourselves in the faith as stated in second corinthians 13 5. examine yourselves as to whether you are in the faith test yourselves this teaching is by no means complete however we can we have given enough scripture on both sides for you to consider you know the bottom line is if we say we are a christian we will walk in obedience and repentance to god if you are living a sinful lifestyle and refuse to change then you may be in danger of eternal judgment you know we should all choose to walk in the fear of the lord that's the bottom line now if you don't know this god you can get to know him right now and you do not want to take a chance with your soul because your soul is eternal you will spend it in heaven or hell and heaven is not our default destination there needs to be a purposeful act on our part you can do that right now if you're willing to repent and turn away from god and call out on him just say this prayer and it will change your life but this comes from your heart this is not just fit jesus in your life this is you're committing your life over to him just say this prayer say dear god in heaven dear god in heaven i know that i've sinned i know that i have sinned and i cannot save myself and i cannot save myself i believe you sent your son jesus i believe you sent your son jesus and died on the cross for me to die on a cross for me that he was crucified that he was crucified died and was buried died and was buried but rose again but rose again and lives forever more and lives forever more i ask you to forgive me i ask you to forgive me come into my heart come into my heart i receive you i receive you as my lord and savior as my lord and savior you are the son of god you are the son of god thank you for dying for me thank you for dying for me thank you for taking me to heaven thank you for taking me to heaven and i now confess and i now confess i'm a born-again christian i am a born-again christian going to heaven going to heaven in jesus name in jesus name amen amen praise god if you said that prayer you're born again now that's just the beginning there's a whole walk ahead and you need to get plugged into a good church and read the word daily it's really important because it'll change your thinking your mind will be renewed to the word of god now join us next for part two we've got lots more to cover on this and we thank you so much for joining us today yes we look forward to seeing you again god bless you this program is brought to you by the friends and partners of soul choice ministries thank you for your continued prayers and financial support which makes these programs possible for more information about other ministry resources please visit us online at soulchoiceministries.org

Channel: Bill Wiese

Views: 60,761

Rating: 4.7956557 out of 5

Keywords: 23 Mnutes In Hell, Bill Wiese, Hell, Afterlife, NDE, Eternal Torment, Supernatural, Bible, What Does The Bibe Say, Is Hell Eternal, What Is Hell Like, Is Hell Real, What Happen When I DIe, Truth About Hell, Does Hell Really Exist, Life After Death, Lake of Fire, Demons, SIn, Death, Suicide, Bible verses about hell, Once saved Always Saved, Have I Sinned Too Much, Can A Christian Go To Hell

Id: 1ErWLLfP9NA

Length: 29min 44sec (1784 seconds)

Published: Tue Aug 20 2019