BIG BLASTERS - FATED #105 feat. @mbXtreme, @Palsteron, @CrouchingTuna

welcome everyone to The Faded connections Path of Exile Community podcast this is episode number 105 and I'm hyped to be discussing all the topics Path of Exile tonight is a special episode because we got some blasting boys who are always eager to jump onto the latest to train in terms of meta builds in terms of money making strategies and uh yeah before I blow be it at length without getting anywhere let's get in the guests for tonight and Fade Out this beautiful music that I prepared and uh wow every single time it jumps anyway still working out the new tech as we go let's uh welcome mbxtreme how have you been doing hello hello hello yeah I've been doing great I just had some nice meal and now I'm ready for uh some part of excel talk I got my coffee ready all right beautiful 30 degrees outside you can see if it like yeah amazing dude that's that's great it's great I like the weather I'd love to be there as well and we get of course also palestron welcome welcome how are you doing hello how's everybody doing glad to have you on and last but certainly not least we got a familiar face with the name of crouching tuna welcome on the stream how are you doing hello I'm good man how are you I'm pretty okay I'm pretty okay trying to not get too bitter about the the terrible terrible rips that I die this week but I'm happy I'm happy we're playing soft course so that's great um well you still care about rips even though you're self-core well I mean they're when they're upsetting yeah yeah I mean I'm only 93 I shouldn't be caring about it because you could get the XP back pretty quickly yeah yeah I don't know I try to not lose the being upset about rips I guess I should that that's the first thing I should switch off going to softcore but I try to keep that because I need that when I eventually I'll return to hardcore yeah of course otherwise you just you don't care about dying and then you die all the time then you just become one of us degenerates like like honestly I never play hardcore right and but I really get upset if I level an odd character you know and I die before blood aqueducts you know I'm like really like getting like the feeling that I need to like delete the character and re-level it just because I died before blood out you know like even though I don't even play hardcore but it just like it gives me like this build is bad you know we need to like restart it hmm that's crazy on average okay you also like adjust your resistances and like use all the affixes that are open on the items for crafts and stuff like that because I mean I've not seen software players do that usually and that's usually why you die because if your cap resists and you get I don't I don't but I still stand by the point just don't get hit you know and sometimes you get hit and yeah you gotta start over again I guess exhibitionist cat there I like it yeah he's actually a special guest she doesn't know yet but I hope it doesn't should I put them out though no I think cats are fine yeah cats are awesome dude also we're uh we're on YouTube right so I think I think we're a little bit more liberal there I see Pastor on this dropping in and out trying to fix a last minute prep with his camera I suppose but we're also still waiting to hear from Valor Mage um you guys have been checking out the new Torchlight thing that has been uh that has been revealed today you want to talk a little bit about that like maybe make it interesting for for people who are more Path of Exile players maybe you get something you want to say about that my back up torso Infinity is like a is like a blast of fun it's like uh the builds are just crazy so yeah it's like it's like one of those games that it's in constant development so it's gonna get better and better as it progresses yeah it's just gonna be just gonna be like a blaster fun you play some really op stuff like the developers just make absolutely broken stuff I think so that's pretty much like the Highlight for me go in play some crazy [ __ ] and then wait for the next season so it'll be just nice to have like more and more games to play so we're not just like you know uh playing four months path of excel at a time although like of course people will want to engage in path of excel as much as they want to per season but it's nice to have like various games that you could just jump and enjoy for you know however many hours every season so that's cool definitely but like for for someone who comes from path of EXO likes to play Path of Exile is there anything oh God I see palestron is jumping in and out we're gonna have to get him back in everything good on your end we're good now yeah I think it's good now it should be I don't know what happened sorry no no worries I'm just worried that like yeah for some reason it doesn't work should be okay okay so last couple times work well no worries we're still figuring my question was maybe you got an answer for that as someone who plays mainly Poe and hasn't checked out Torchlight infinite what specific like itch is Torchlight tickling for the for the poe player who is looking for some variety for some other games to check out it's like it's not exactly for people who want to have something different than Poe as much as people who want to have like puree but with all the friction gone kinda like it's just so much smoother all the quality of life you would ever hope for in Poe is just given to you kinda um that's the game which also makes it I mean that's an upside and a downside right like pewy has its charm which Deutschland has a completely different like stylistic thing going on obviously um there's also a lot of downsides with like mobile um like uis and stuff like that but in general I think deutschlight is a breath of fresh air um it was really good cool build making if I think about normal stuff that starts as a mobile game it has a lot more complexity and it doesn't shy away from um making people think so yeah it's really fun everything's broken and that game it feels like the uniques are broken the builds are broken they want you to make broken stuff yeah yeah they really do it really feels like almost everything is like just pretty good and also it's not it's not insane that like the game is easy because it gets it gets uh like the difficulties like disgusting when you get to like Uber bosses and path of Brave and that kind of stuff or like super Juice Maps like things things scale out of control in that game yeah um to like so like a really humbles you you know you go in there you like doing like whatever much damage and then you realize that the requirements didn't beat the next thing is going to be like 100 times what you're doing so it's like yeah yeah I had the same like unlike the the newest player basically right the the one with the least amount of experience so I literally just jumped in and it's actually a lot of fun and they do have actually some some Target dummy in the town you know so you can actually activate that and you see on a screen like how much DPS you're currently doing so I would wish that for Poe as well right and the power spikes are insane so let's say I have like okay I'm like next to McKnight build right and we have like five million DPS here a quick one upgrade and all of a sudden you're 50 mil DPS you're like bro what the [ __ ] you know and then you you're like okay now I'm strong enough I can finally text on this like seasonal boss I go in I just shoot all my damage that I have and this life part doesn't even move and then I somebody told me like yeah you're probably like five six hundred million DPS to fight that ball so not like bro what the hell you know so it really has some insane scaling and uh but yeah the power spikes are ridiculous in that game like a couple new items and you have like I don't know like 200 times the damage that you had before and all of a sudden you can like Farm crazy 100 and then it keeps on scaling even harder and harder and harder and uh yeah it's it's very interesting at the breath of fresh air basically yeah and here we're gonna get uh in our fourth guest we haven't seen today yeah hellstrawn finally here yeah did you try uh I'm extra no it's fine yeah it should be fun though I don't know if it doesn't drop again yeah yeah uh Hey guys how's it going glad to have you on let's directly delve into some Path of Exile topics because I'm really curious to hear what you guys are have found out in Crucible so far and like I mean let's let's just start by giving people some context what starter build do you play how far did it take you and how well did it work for the mechanic uh who wants to go first I see tuna is really eager to share I started uh impending doom cultist it's a good build um it got me pretty much to everything I wanted to do so like completed the whole Atlas and stuff on uh on my starter system like usually focusing a lot on like going speed mapping early I don't really do bosses on them aside for like my watch my first two watch stones so as a soft core handy I just bought the first two uh about the last two watch zones on day one uh you know for like Maven and stuff like that Maven and we're out there and then I just started uh basically like doing like uh the standard stuff like start doing Expedition and then I quickly pivoted into um I did Expedition and then actually I did that for like a few days and then I pivoted into like Harvest basically but uh I I pretty much already like I found like some like cool interaction stuff like day two so I I already liked day two I wanted to like try that out and I tried that out and it was like kind of scuffed so now I was like stuck with a build I was like half broken because I was trying to make like the new uh you know the like the shamula thing the recovery stuff um I think the back I think is what it's called right yeah the one that actually lets you regen based on chaos DJ yeah yeah so I I try to make like a build around that and I was playing uh molten strike with the uh with no fault Soul gain prevention and then I went tainted packed and it was working right but I I quickly figured out that because of the mechanic um had monsters with damage reduction my leech instances were like kind of getting scuffed because of that because then it's like you'd expect to leech a certain amount of damage from a monster but if he has damage reduction then you're not leeching that amount of damage so essentially what was happening is that like my points were outlasting my leech instances I was basically like inflicting like millions of damage back onto myself and like one-shotting myself uh every like second map or whatever right so yeah that ended up being pretty scuffed so then I just turned that into lightning strike poison and uh and yeah that was like my second build which was like really early on but since I had like uh such an early like you know I was like oh [ __ ] this is insane I wanted to try it uh so I re-rolled off like the occult is really fast but into that and then that ended up being my main build since I couldn't really afford to buy all the gear back oh God but I mean it was like a lot of fun experimenting with that stuff I usually like rush rush like getting a belt uh but this time around I just decided to mess around with the new stuff I think it was pretty fun for both me and my chat so rambling on about that but yeah no but it's great as a streamer rambling is what we're doing okay yeah that's what we're here for it as a streamer you're also often like foremost Entertainer and only gamer saying right like I mean you're there to make fun stuff happen and if you happen to to make also game accomplishments happen that's a nice bonus on top but obviously you want to scout out the new features for sure uh yeah maybe MB extreme what did you start the league with is it the classic UK ignite I wish you would have done that but I always say I tell people all the time once you go EK ignite you just don't go back the problem is the build overall feels like so incredibly strong in like all content that okay you play okay ignite you have like a good time and then you're like okay let's play something else because okay I've played enough of it right that you play this build you're like ah EK was actually better so you're like okay let's try another build you know you keep on trying other builds at the end of the day you could go back to EK ignite and say like okay this is overall just the best build you know uh but I just played so much EK ignite in the previous two league so I said like this time around I'm gonna do something completely different I'm actually gonna start melee and um one skill that really interested me for a long time was like rage Vortex I played the last time I think an expedition League or something when it got released and I had a lot of fun with it and that's why I said you know what I'm gonna start Ray Schwartz Express and it was actually quite fine but there is one major downside it is buggy like it is not only visual buggy but it it's like um let's say you have like this um a certain height of a map you know that is like a bottom side and you have like stairs and there's like an upper layer and so on you know and the problem yeah elevation yeah this one's worth and Bridge Vortex is always on the lowest elevation so as soon as you go on a stair or in a little mountain or anything like that you don't see a race Vortex anymore you just but it still does damage yeah most of the time not always though oh wow so it is it is kind of like a bit weird like I had this like feeling that it just doesn't deal the damage that it should do and some people in chat also told me like yo there's apparently a problem with like this elevation thing that it doesn't always hit but in the other hand sometimes it's like really hard to to see where your rage project is going you know this is like this kind of killed like a lot of the the fun of the build I would say just not seeing where it's going because it is a very visual placing ability right and yeah then I decided you know what I just gonna re-roll into a Shockwave Cyclone Slayer which worked out pretty well and the good thing was it shared like 90 of the gear of the rage Vortex character right so I said like okay you know what I'm just gonna level up the Dual list real quick um go Slayer throw in all the rage Vortex gear just swap the um the ax that I had with rage Vortex to a staff so I can actually use Shockwave and that actually felt pretty pretty good so I actually I think Tita killer also had it on on the list of like good League starters like Shockwave cyclone and I really felt that and um after a couple days I was like okay then let's move on to the next build and the next big build that I played was like Specter Shield throw um especially with like the the option of this like Empress vigilance with like a thousand es you know and this is scales insanely I made a POV like 1600 crit multi is absolutely ridiculous until a point that uh I just sit here and started to chance and uh ours went by thousands of thousand chances and the [ __ ] just didn't want to like chance into unique and then I was like you know what 10 000 chances later I'm just gonna play something else let's let's forget about the shield existing you know I was working hard on the base of the shield imprint Forge everything you know I thought actually the chancing is like the easiest part you know yeah there's this this is really big video by Captain lanceable chance of and it's probably a great topic to go into but before we do that let's just quickly give a palestron a chance to let us know about his League start and it was I mean we already tested it before it was really smooth um the only thing that was new was kind of like the Pathfinder stuff so I was just like hoping that they didn't like there's no bug in there like all of a sudden your life less don't work or it doesn't work like intended or something but it it worked just like I thought and it was [ __ ] broken we came out of campaign and had two two thousand life region at like level 68 or something pretty normal [ __ ] and yeah it was just smooth sailing from them I don't know um gotta be careful with that Thief script oh yeah yeah but but then I uh so I just unlocked everything uh farmed up like I don't know 80 divides or something and then I re-rolled into cast and crit rolling magma with the stacking rolling magma OE mods and you can basically have like one rolling magma cover the whole screen and it was pretty crazy huh and uh that's what I'm playing right now just clearing some Legions put the guide out like a few hours ago and uh yeah after that move on to the next so you need to see that but yeah uh do you guys watch the the captain Lance video about the chancing where he calls the chance orbs the quit game orb like every time I was like dancing I had his video on like Loop you know and he's like complaining about your head stops I'm seeing a chance cow or a chance I mean it's stupid yeah it was always stupid right but it just needs somebody to actually get hurt and post a video about it yeah and then maybe to do something about it um I mean what can he do right is like it's fine but the problem is that like um basically like you know we had like a way of like actually getting skill trees on the uniques and then they they they patch that out because obviously it was unintended but obviously then people are still going to want to be wanting to do that so I don't know it's kind of like it's an unintended mechanic that you're able to chance these crazy passives I think onto a unique so yeah uh like it hasn't really been a problem till this week because of how strong those things are right like you know what I mean well there has been a problem always in in terms of if you wanted to chance a unique it's been a problem but so far you were able to like just go around that and be like hey I don't want a chance a unique but now with the interaction that you can by chance and get specific um notables from The Crucible that you wouldn't otherwise not be able to get is it like it's a completely different pool if you spawn the tree on the unique rather than chancing the the unique on a base with the existing tree yeah it's a different Dynamic right in in that like people have like actual true incentive to chance something just like you did with like eternity shroud or whatever right yeah but that that just like uncovers the problem with chance orbs right you can just make a chance or like one click there's no nothing against that right like you just have to make it a little bit less functional like you can you can just make it so chances work on non-normal items right like talked about it a lot on on the last podcast and like the easiest solution would be to just implement the bench graph right and then you could easily easily like the benchcraft costs an orb and a scour and like no you don't need them you can but you don't even need to do that right you just make it like six links it's like it stops at unique shouldn't be a problem right is there like any problem if it works on none normal items which answers I guess it would increase the value of the chance or if it would yeah then you make it droplet that's right they have to make it dropless then that would have implication for contract and map prices that are priced and Chancellor but I'm sure there's a way around that right I'm sure there is yeah so you mean that the the chains orb is actually re-rolling a rare item into potential another rare item which would be chaos or kind of and could turn rare you could just you just Spam like a few things right until and it stops at unique yeah yeah the biggest problem right now with the chance orb is that you have to right click the chance orb then apply it to the thing and then right click the the scour that and every single application is four clicks or somebody else mentioned this like you can make chance of just something interesting to get and you can make it rarer than for example kios orbs or something and just make it a higher chance then you actually like oh I found a chance or let's throw it on there and it has like let's say a 1 in 50 chance to become uh decent unique or something right instead of like spamming thousands like there's a lot of ways to fix it I don't see any reason why not I think part of the issue as well is obviously like Why did um what is that prophecy have to disappear you know like they could have been like brought back or in not in Prophecy form but yeah yeah you know what I mean like trusted treasure was a cool was a cool thing I don't know so it could be cool to have like a tragic treasure orb or something but I do know I I understand like I think what you're gonna say is they probably didn't want that in the game at all well they have the choice either we remove trash or treasure or we add on every unique or heavy base that has a good unique we need to also add a [ __ ] unique that's my point right like you make you make chances a little bit more like Trash to Treasure orbs but not like guaranteed just like yeah don't make them thousands of clicks right yeah yeah they need to reduce the amount of Clicks in this game I think it's something that we can all agree on yeah they're getting there though they're getting better at it okay um yeah I I wish they put more attention to it because some things you know are excessive like um you know we're talking about chances but we can also like point out things like um you know like Legion for example yeah yeah I mean not even not even just like yeah I like clicks are obviously just excessive in PE so yeah I mean I think I'm the only person that actually likes chancing an item like I remember I once against the Headhunter it was like 55 000. that was brutal it was really brutal but I think the main issue here obviously I'm like one of a kind when it says like okay I like torturing myself I sit here for five hours pressing 10 scholar you know I'm fine with that sometimes I even have like some kind of fusing hours you know where people come to me give me all their fusings and I'll link their chests and then the next one and then I just click like 30 000 times like I'm fine with that you know but the problem is the prices go insane you know like um for example I think right now it's like one Divine for like 250 scourings and if you know from your head like but actually yeah yeah it's like 250 260. it went crazy downhill when people started changing the emperor's vigilance right and now you think about like I need probably four divines for like a thousand scour chances and if you know may the second the average for Emperor's should be around like 20 to 30 000 if you're not like super lucky right and then now think about that just the without even the effort of chancing The Shield would cost you around about like over a hundred divines of materials then you're really wondering like can I even afford that you already want to get myself into that I think the best way is like get a good base try your luck with like a two three thousand if it happens it happens if not then just play another build or just don't use this kind of item but but the problem is that there's so much work involved at the start to get the right tree and you have to get that one before that you're already so deep into it that you're like I have to make this work now [ __ ] it's like you know what I did I picked up the shields I beat them I got a good I got a good base put them together I split them and I just sold them to you guys yeah suckers away I'm still winning the base Shields I thought you meant the the unique Shields no the base I'm still waiting for my plus one power charge profane one thingy yeah but yeah like for the void battery totally um are you gonna chance it or are you gonna sell it of course I am yeah well I'm gonna sell you I can't I can't use it because nobody can play with that [ __ ] but yeah I'll tell it um but yeah I was like super hyped when I really got the bass together with all the five notes on the tree with all the imprints and stuff it was like a lot of work right and then I was like okay now let's quickly chance it and we have the big Shield you know and this was when when things really went downhill really went downhill you know I was like okay actually chancing is the hard part not like putting a passive tree together this is like the bad part about it the bad part is also when you like so deep in already you don't want to give up right it's weird yeah yeah okay no let I just want to say um it's weird how they chose to make it so hard for uniques right when most people in endgame actually play mostly rares and rares kinda seem to be better than uniques most of the time but it's so hard to get trees on uniques for some reason which kind of was weird I don't know yeah it seems like a really good decision yeah I really would love to hear like a a detailed outline of their thoughts in regard to that like it would make sense in like the D4 it would make sense right because D4 everybody's like orange gear right but in Poe like orange gear is not that crazy so making it so hard to get trees on on legendaries and uniques or whatever it's [ __ ] crazy I don't know yeah especially the fact that you can't like reveal the tree on a unique basically with the map encounters makes little sense to me I understand but you need like a special encounter to combine uniques that that's maybe okay right but the fact that you could you have to bring it into an end game encounter to First reveal a tree on it that's a little bit weird seeing that you can also progress it like as soon as it has a tree you can progress it in normal Maps just like everything else yeah it's so common right the geodes or whatever they're called yeah I think like the major problem is you can add a tree to Unique right and you can merge uniques but you there I don't think there is a forge that removes a tree from a unique item what you would do is like you go in you you put a tree on oh it's a wrong one I remove it with the next four to add another one that can reroll my own item but this doesn't work so my first idea was like void Forge you know there is like explicit physical and Chaos modifiers in the tree so and with the um tailoring orbs with the enchant on the weapon um you can actually get this to like 800 50 this extra element so it's really crazy yeah you can like scale this right but in order to do that you first need to have one and then just you know in trade League void Forge is about like I think like 10 divines per item so what am I supposed to do have one good rolled one and just buy every void Forge from the market and just watch it together and hope and you can't no you that's that's a problem you can't even merge them because there's almost no chance that you get a new mod right it's like just the two Mods together so they just merged the mods yeah they just merged the mods like there's it's very rare that you get a new mod like uh however it's called permutation organization mutation yeah it doesn't even do anything how it works yeah it's not even the same as like re-rolling right so and you cannot also here's the worst part right with uniques especially rare Unix is the grid also matters right the the notes can't move so if you have a line down and at the end there's the note that you want and you're like oh at tier four I want this other node then you have to find another uh unique weapon that has the tier four not only exactly the tier four you need it has to be exactly in the same position because they don't swap position ever so it's it's just it's impossible literally impossible you you just buy the bass you roll and you hope for the best and if it's like two mods you want if you get super lucky you can maybe hope for a third one but there's no way you get a perfect one it's impossible you have to chance and with stuff like wait Forge that you can't chance you're just a lot it's it's important just to Doom the weapon yeah and on top of that for a content creator you kind of want to have a build that people could technically replicate replicate when if they have enough currency right it's like it's the same you remember like accuracy stacker with precursors yeah yeah okay so there's there's four precursors in the whole league with 24 accuracy right okay so two people can play the build nice right it's like you want at least for people to be able to replicate it if they have the currency right even if it's expensive you want them to have the chance but you just can't with those the same with like like void battery and stuff like that it's like man you're basically condemning people to uh like chance stuff yeah it's a chance prison yeah just chance it man I mean to be fair there's like cycles that do that for profit so maybe you could just buy it for under div but yeah like when it comes to something like void forged you're screwed um unfortunate bit of a shame I mean yeah you know how it is with these mechanics they're so good but you're just like it's you just have such a hard time interacting with them sometimes yeah by Design which obviously I feel like it's like oh we intended this stuff it's like yeah but it sucks getting one month extra time to like make it as good as possible right and like within with that two or three days of playing I'm like I would have done this different this different this different this different and all of a sudden we have a leaked mechanic that has so much potential and nobody's playing it because it doesn't even drop loot so I mean you're not really there to to level your tree like if you're not like in that to just say oh I'm gonna pick up every base I'm going to try to get like some good notes on it right how many people are doing it people want to play a leak mechanic and they want to have some Loot on the floor some currency drops maybe like a Divine orb and whatnot you know and if they don't drop anything then people just are 90 or 95 of the player base will just not interact with that thing the thing is though like the fact that most people don't interact is actually a a good point that you can get a lot more out of it so for example like people don't do it so if they now want to get a crucible tree and you're somebody who does sell bases you're just so I'll give you an example right on my first Strat I I started with like 10 divines or something and I I put a ticket bow into every single one of the crucibles I had for like 300 Maps or whatever then I put them in uh two quad tabs right and I I try to sell them and right now I already sold half of them like I'm just saying random ones I started at 50c some of them actually had to reprice because they sold for like multiple up the vines at the start I got insta whisper thread and I priced it down to like 30C now in total I made like 17 divines right now half of those bows sold right and if if you like calculate the time that it needed me to do that it's like really really good it's really good and then that that was like Thicket Bose I didn't have any idea about like Angela kite Shield uh what's what's the issue I'm sorry yeah and uh and the prophecy wand yeah so much better stuff out there and that was just think it pose for plus one for toxic rain plus one for EA a little bit of attack speed right like think think about the good bases now you can make so much currency it's just that people don't want to engage with it right and it's annoying because you have to like price it in bulk and stuff and you have to carry that ticket bow in your inventory yeah it is annoying it is kind of annoying yeah but there's another thing that they could have done better but question to you are you still doing that I'm still doing it yeah I'm I'm now doing it with the shields but also something I will say is that gem XP this league is actually pretty shitty so I actually stopped leveling offhand and now I just put the the weapon bases in my offend so they're not as annoying in my um and if you do auto equip and you press X and then you pick it up it just picks it up right you don't even have to interact with it so that's what I've read so yeah my only gripe with the mechanic is essentially that like um yeah I really want to interact with it right like but the problem is like I love making my own my own stuff like if you have like a rare weapon like a rare bow or or a rare Shield or anything like that mechanic is amazing right when you're making your Shield oh it's so nice yeah and then your Shield is made and then like yeah you can pick up a staff like uh bake it put it in a dump dab but that's that's that's all right it's a little mechanic there should be a little more yeah it's like it's missing a little bit yeah I don't know and and the gameplay itself for me is is very lacking in the fact that like you know I'm just mapping and I bake it and if like if a unique spawn is just like okay this guy's gonna like gonna take a while to come just gonna move away because like the uniques are just ridiculous yeah they're insane maybe it's because I'm like playing like eight mod maps normally right so they can just get just insane but yeah they're pretty easy Once you have a gear up it's actually pretty easy but like if you're doing really hard Maps then it sucks yeah yeah it could be pretty rough did you have also like this problem with like certain special encounter scaling because for example I kill a map boss in a tier 16 in let's say two seconds okay then I opened this like three modded Essence and I'm like okay six seven seconds to kill that then I see an Essence that has like six or seven Essences inside I'm actually scared to actually click on that because I know this is harder than a metamorph and like the comparison from a map boss to an Essence monster to a crucible monster like everything is like involving a league mechanic they have like ridiculous scaling on that even up to a point where I said like because I started with like Essence like many other people did right but on my Cyclone for example if it had Max three Essences I was opening it if it had more than that I was not just I I just ignored it and moved on because I said like I'm probably gonna take a minute to kill that thing it's crazy actually yeah there's a bit of like disparity between between stuff like that for sure like killing map bosses is a joke in comparison to yeah some of these encounters for sure like it feels like rares are just tankier than my bosses these days oh yeah yeah and not just one like it used to be it's like half of them feels like yeah pretty much yeah there's a lot of arch nemesis or former arch nemesis mods that uh work together to make things pretty tanky and unfortunately those are also present on the rares from The Crucible so yeah you can feel that especially if you play a chaos build on big start and there's like you know exactly when it's like weather immune you're like okay yeah for sure I'll skip this one okay yeah or extra life this is like really easy to say like yeah the crit mod the crit mod also still exists right the basically they just can't be crazy yeah it's what the [ __ ] all right I mean that's the thing it's like um people like you you get like you know like as you progress you kind of forget about like the early League troubles you have but then when you restart again you're just like oh [ __ ] now I remember how it was you know and then you're encountering these Rays again and I think the balance is a little bit off it's definitely a little bit strange right now like the like Yeah The Encounter balance between like my bosses and rare that puzzles should be harder like I mean I think that was a design decision in the past where they were like yeah we don't really want map bosses the hardest thing to be in the map because we don't want people to uh feel stuck on their map progression because you need to kill the map boss to to get map drops a lot of times especially early on yeah but you're not ready then for the next month if you if you can't kill the boss right like you're just not ready like it's literally the map boss just kill it right I think like I would wish that the game would be harder on its own I mean this is like a a bit of a weird take but for example in the current pace of the game I feel bad if I haven't cleaned the entire Atlas within the first three days of My League start on the five link where I'm thinking like should I actually be able to do that you know like it just feels bad like the first thing I want to do in League start for me at least is get your four void stones and actually Farm tier 16 Maps or T14 Plus or actually 260 Maps uh right away you know and I the problem is like where would you draw the line because if you're like a little bit more casual approach then you need like probably a month now to actually clean the atlas but I think like the game is only hard in at League start and once you get like a halfway decent build going then everything that you like complained about early is just like doesn't matter anymore anyways but it's probably just a weird take no I mean I could play I completely see that but um the problem with the game is just like early progression just feels rough because of things like that and I think it's just simply because of like how many multipliers can stack on top of each other to create encounters which just don't feel um like you're not actually feeling like you're you're fine like you're fighting something and it doesn't feel like you're engaging in like combat like in a way it's just like which is what they're trying to design or trying to be like okay so there's these rares and they're going to be strong and they're gonna have these mods and they're gonna interact differently with different builds and stuff like that but really what it often feels like is like like Daddy long arms flicker strikes for you and he's got like 74 stacks of Soul Eater and just slaps into the next [ __ ] Dimension right it's like yeah and it doesn't feel meaningful or fun in any way and that happens these days I think a little bit too much uh which is like my observation is someone who just usually has no trouble with like early progression right I think I think Poe tries to be like this tries to get a little bit of that in right like what D4 for example sometimes says with like uh actual gameplay right where you like position reposition stuff but I don't think pewy has the tools to do that it's just not the game for that like you don't have you don't have that flexibility in the game like enemies are just not made for that like you don't have the the cooldowns to do that and stuff like that right like it's not that kind of game so yeah the fact that they try just kind of makes it just feel weird it's also especially because like they can design rares under a microscope and be like okay in in a specific encounter this rare feels fine to to play against right but then all you have to do is roll Onslaught and attack speed on your map yeah it's over and it's just it's just over right like it's just yeah and then like you have like other multipliers which stack on top of that and then other multipliers again and then it just becomes like what people are complaining about right which is just these monsters you're literally creating these monsters that are are just present because of all these multipliers that you can stack on top of each other and you can also you can argue like oh just like roll the map or like just chaos it or whatever right but I mean we're getting to a point where like uh you're doing Reds and you have to follow your Maps everyone has to go through that right and you you value your maps and you have like very little outcome or any sort of agency over what the hell is going on in there uh unless you're like um I don't know I like yeah you could say like all more thoughtful players would just like not run that map or whatever right but I mean I think most of us just run it because we're on League start we have limited resources we don't want to use chaos orbs on our Maps we just want to violin progress our Atlas so we that we can get to our like favorite slots map pools like it's it's you know it's like a universal problem um amongst players I don't speak for hardcore players but yeah I think it's also that the the mods used to be a lot more like vanilla um back in the day and you had a lot of mods that were like useless for your build they were like okay that's free right nowadays I feel like if you corrupt the map and you have eight mods six of those are definitely not free they're all just screwing you over right and then there's maybe two mods maybe one mod that doesn't do anything like maybe no region doesn't do anything because your life tap and whatever um but then there's like one mod that's like in between but it used to be that half of the mods didn't do anything because they were so specific but nowadays it's like yo 60 of the auras gone 40 cooldown recovery right affects everybody because everybody has guard skills right stuff like that it's like yeah and then and then the the cherry on top is then you click Alters yeah then you click Walters yeah yeah then it's over managed and then you just click on meteors and you just pour it loud yeah that's gonna be it for me for today just play Mage butterfly fit I need to step back if you just keep moving like as long as you don't backtrack I mean I don't know if you if you have that skill to never to like I Loot and stuff right and it just like that the the flasks Auto activate if you have the model made it right all right and you just Loot and then true and also if you have like if you're if you build it has a lot of like you don't see what's happening on the ground right yeah so you don't see the meteor even coming um I'm not the type of player that really like plays the game by like like you know like looking at what's going on like oh you know like oh there's meteors falling out I better move you know like I'm kind of just like thank you when I play puree I'm like just running around I see loose tiles I look at my overlay map like but it's it's great like it's great like that so so a lot of these things are just like I don't even see the meteor popping I'm picking up my chaos swords and then they're just like boom yeah a different approach on this whole arch nemesis thing do you like the way it is actually right now where you say like you have 10 rare monsters nine are okay and one is an Omega tank because it literally counters your build right um what would it be if if they would just have like Global damage reduction so it's the same difficulty for any build that you play no matter if you play chaos no matter if you play lightning strike or ignite or whatever so like overall damage reduction so it literally feels that all 10 rare mobs are equally defensive so I mean I want to say I I don't actually hate the fact that like one of ten rares is like gonna be hard right like there's this hard encounter here there I was just I guess I was just saying that the boss just kind of feels flat because it feels weird to encounter a rare and that's going to be harder that there's the map boss and it's like it just Falls over that's I guess what I think I actually like how they do it right now it's like one of those rare mods is really hard so it kind of stands out um it would be nice if it also had more loot but that's I guess hard to do especially with magic find in the game and stuff like that but yeah what do you think tuna yeah I mean like the thing is um I've always loved like hard encounters and like scaling difficulty and that kind of stuff uh it's just that it's it doesn't feel right like in in in Poe like it's it it doesn't it just never really felt um it just it just always felt like it sits there's so much variance in what like defenses you can build and the the mods and all that kind of stuff it's just impossible for them to design it feels like an encounter that feels fair for everybody and every build obviously like you should be you know building defensive kind of stuff stuff like that but um I don't know I don't know how it is like I I'm just a player I can point out problems but I have no idea how any of this stuff is like solvable right just complain yeah I mean that's what we're here for like I would say I don't mind the the rock paper scissors system and you know I think that's a lot more interesting if monsters have like Elemental mitigation physical mitigation chaos mitigation life region or like the inner block or something like that because it has it creates a different landscape there's more Nuance to the fights rather than just Monster having a generic damage reduction and no matter which character of the characters that you have you take into the map it's always going to be the same I kind of like that there is variation but in terms of like map Boss versus mobs in the map I definitely feel the balance is way off and while I think it's it's okay that the map bosses are not always the tankiest monster in the map it's it's definitely way off that like half the rares in the map are so much more tanky than the map boss and so much more dangerous and like what fuels into that also I think is the fact that when you fight rare monsters you barely ever feel like you're fighting the monster but you're just fighting the arch nemesis mods on top of it right with the map bosses every map boss has their own little distinct mechanics and and it would actually warrant a longer fight with the map boss because they're interesting but outside of what you just said the example with the the pimp slapper just flickering on top of you yeah that's the monster doing that that's cool right like because it you see the monster and you kind of expect oh it's gonna flicker on me and kill me unless he does it from off screen which is really unfortunate but it's it's not the arch nemesis mods doing that but what really upsets me is like most of my deaths nowadays are to Crystal skin and because I couldn't see it before it works it's like you kill the monster and especially I'm playing anime weapon Summoner for those of you who don't know I'm playing a guardian and what I found out and I didn't know that before this league when your minions hit Crystal skin monsters the crystals spawn under you and not under the minion that hit which is like so mind-blowing because the monster literally says spawns Crystal things uh on hit or something the longer the encounter as well the more crystals it spawns so if you're killed with low DPS it's just it's just like spawning like hundreds of little crystals under you he drops loot you go walk and then it just all blows up at the same time is it like horrible and on my brain occult it's just one cast one Crystal it like monster dice exactly is it like the the one chaos thing that spawns when the monster died that they explode or is it like this like on these these purple crystals on the ground whenever you hit them they spawn underneath you and then when the monster dies they all explode yeah okay okay but there is this other one this is like so annoying there's like lightning turrets yeah when you see this monster and they spawn below you I'll usually skip those mods they got heavily nerfed right because they they followed you through the entire map like last league and stuff but it's still if I see that rare monster and it's like in essence I'm literally like I attacked this out like seeing those things spawning eyes like I I don't I don't need these Essences I'm gonna move on because it's like so annoying if you don't kill it fast like you just like oh my God and this combined with meteors and stuff yeah for loud man goodbye next map I think one thing I'd like to add on to like though like uh rare argument though is I'm usually fine with like rares being tankier or like unkillable for me but one thing I really don't like is when I wear um ignores your defense type right oh yeah there's a there's it's one thing to like walk up to him and it's like oh he's tanky as [ __ ] but there's another thing to walk up to him he slaps you and then you melts over him and it just says like oh overwhelms or or like has some kind of penetration or some [ __ ] and you're just overwhelmed Fizz is insane yeah oh it's like oh I guess I should have moused over him before fighting him yeah to know that he was gonna ignore my defense during the legion yeah while breaking the legion open yeah so it's like it's just really awkward right like I know like yeah it's like if you build a more layer defense or whatever it would have been fine um but especially with the with this lean mechanic like how how how much damage they just seem to deal it's it's like it's really difficult right like to to deal with um all of these things that's one of my biggest gripes right now is that it feels like with most of the deaths that I die there's not enough room for counter play like the only appropriate counter play would have been to slow down by a factor of 10 and just really Tiptoe Through the map and read every every modification or every modifier and every rare monster and every blue pack before I start fighting it in order to avoid dying like specifically with the crystal skin uh the the other one the Executioner right where you said I don't like when my when monsters deactivate my defense the Executioner deactivating your region above 50 I don't agree with that mod at all I don't think that should be in the game but I don't have a problem with it being in the game besides like disagreeing with the design because it has a clear visual tell and every time I see that red circle I know exactly what I'm getting into but with the crystal skin I never see it before I die to it it's like literally always gotcha and then you're just true and the the only way to tell it beforehand is to most over every single thing and the game is Just it has evolved past that in the past couple years it feels like they want to dial back the game to like eight years ago when that was the way how you play the game is like really careful and read everything but the pace at which the game is played is just not compatible with reading yeah it's just not compatible yeah no I totally agree I totally agree but at the same time it's like um you know it's also like just incompatible with the way we play a lot of the time but it it does affect everybody in that like um like even if you're like a very meticulous like hardcore player or player even in soft core right that like really cares about all these things builds defense and that sort of stuff like yeah you can get through the game fine and you probably like be hearing this thinking like oh what are these guys complaining about you know I got my like Giga chat build or whatever it's just but it's a it's like it's not just like a US problem like it affects everybody and if it affects us it affects like yeah yeah that's the thing right but if we if we notice it it's mostly gonna be all the way down the chain for people who I don't know have a lot harder time yeah yeah and it's especially really bad early right like as we said like when you leak start unless you're like using some crazy broken mechanic um like yeah like maybe like the the regen stuff from uh from past France talks to Green ballista build but I can even tell you that like I had a friend that had 150k armor on a jug and I guess it was kind of bugged at the start of the league but like you'd probably mechanic and he'd get one tapped as well yeah you completely get one type of overwhelmed overwhelm is completely yeah because it's just like oh they're just ignoring my armor yeah so like my plan what I did is like I was like I was like [ __ ] this I'm making a character has zero armor as like captivation I converted like 85 of my Fizz um to to Fire and then I just and I just got 85 Max Fire Res and then I didn't die you know but before that it's like dude I had this tree I don't know how the unique dude the tree looking unique dude from The Crucible mechanic right um that like slams down or whatever uh I had him in like a tier six map right I had 2500 region I had poison on the map mod poison right which is not even bleed or ignite he hit me one time and he got through my Degen and my HP went like this right through through my 2500 regenerate a poison not even a bleed or an ignite or anything crazy right like it's yeah what are you gonna do they're just they are they just felt like the the balance is just off sometimes man yeah but I think like overall I think armor is like pretty overrated like oh well like I think like the tankiest builds are usually those that just convert all the physical damage taken as element or chaos and just ignore the fact that physical even exists you build High Resistance and these are like the tank his characters like I feel so bad if I have like let's say a character like 60 70k armor and they still die but that wouldn't have happened if I convert all the physical into like fire and have like 85 arrests I'm like okay I'm fine like because armor has like a different scaling right it's like very effective against like small hits but if you have like a super big hit and in comparison to like fire resistance I got 10 000 fire damage I have 80 res okay I get two thousand that's it you know I don't even care how big the head is how small it is there is just a fixed damage reduction that comes from the resistance which doesn't really apply to armor because it's calculated differently so if I just say like okay physical damage and we have like a lot of Swords I remember we're back like 10 weeks ago I always had like this this Transcendence when I played a lot of transcendence builds you know um I really wish I I had the option to get like 100 physical damage taking as element chaos whatever and nowadays we do actually have so many sources that it is easily possible especially with like um the cloak of flame or whatever it's called the lightning coil yeah so you have the option and those builds are just in my opinion the tank is built and this is like it feels like 10 times better than like a jug with like 100k armor honestly lightning coil and Logo flame were so huge for right side of the of the tree builds it's insane like building determ and granite flask on like Ranger side builds was always cringe as hell it was like oh [ __ ] um you kind of had to but it just didn't feel good right like and and honestly what I feel like is unless you do Abyss or Expedition which have a lot of physical damage I feel like Ellie is like what kills me every single time it's like physically um physics chaos is super rough nowadays like that's one of the scariest map mods and stuff like that what's new with this patch right yeah exactly yeah but but it rarely feels like I actually died to Fizz um Fizz damage so I think on the left side you still go armor red it just just it's just too easy not to right but uh if you're on the right side yeah like I've been I've been grinding with lightning coil ever since it changed um lightning coil test to pay it um if you have helmet slot free you get another 16 from Craft plus implicit pretty really good it's just good and then if you if you're gonna get period of elements into the build then Watchers eye options are also there right so you can get 100 pretty easily yeah do you have chaos rest in your character or do you have like nowadays I have to know this yeah you gotta like last week I would say I would be fine with 30-ish chaos res last League unless I um I run a lot of like altars are obviously still rough on 30k hours but it was it was doable but nowadays it's like I want to get as close to capped as possible yeah ASAP because I feel like the game is more or less it feels for me like Bounce Around you not having chaos rest that's why it's so rough but I feel like every time I have a character that has actually chaos right even if it's zero it's like it feels like way better yeah it's like yeah let me tell you a little breach you know and you don't you know you don't have chaos right you're probably just gonna get one Ted by some chaos and then you have chaos resident all of a sudden charola Bridge turns into the easiest preach ever and then Ash comes back to be the the worst one with his shock and stuff but yeah I'll say this though poison is rough right like poison or that's pretty bad I have poison so there's a new mod that um like a new Crucible mod your poison immune but uh bleed is longer or whatever immune restoration exactly and uh your poison immune yeah and then and then when it was poison I was like okay do I even need chaos anymore I don't know it was a lot better um so I think what I'm I'm doing from here now is like arakali is my go-to big Pantheon it's like the 10 reduced damage taken over time and 40 Rise Against damage over time um so that helped out a lot I I usually do that on almost every build now so I tried to get freezer immune and stun immune from somewhere else so I have a free Pantheon yeah I just figured out today when I was building my bleedball Gladiator on POV I found this Mastery it's like I'm revision Mastery I think it was and it literally says if your helmet has more armor than evasion your bleed immune and the opposite if you have more evasion than armor on your helmet you're a poison immune and I'm going to be wait a second I'm just gonna buy like I don't know like a nightmare basket and I'm like poison immune like what you know exactly it's the same that's also insane for leveling by the way like I had that on my leveling tree and if you you can be bleed immune you know like in act four these annoying bleeds or Dominus right um You can get that before with the onslaught wheel and it's just dude it's a game changer you don't have to re-roll your fascal at the time right because you want to upgrade your flask so you can't constantly roll corrupted blood and bleed Immunity on their heads at least yeah not a leak start it's really nice yeah it's really really good higher than poison immune because uh poison is something that rarely ever kills you maybe in I'm actually I'm actually not sure anymore if that's true nowadays I don't even know like corrupted blood is still Enemy Number One but I would probably I would probably say poisonous about is dangerous as bleed if not even more honestly and maybe I'm somewhat biased because I often play characters that do get easy access to chaos resist hmm but like I also had like a Pathfinder with like the with the the new like enduring life flask and and they it's like insane you have like really two three four thousand depending on your flask and your tree and the poison gets through yeah one single voice mistake and I'm like bro I'm detaining my life always how what the hell he does nothing believe does almost nothing yeah even if you have that much more um it does more damage right like 270 but honestly I never feel bleep but poison is like as soon as my character stops reaching I know I have a poison I don't even have to check because there is no nothing in the game no detail is that hard than this maybe maybe the Searing X are like uh burning ground they leave that also hits like a truck you know you gotta have the you gotta have the penalty on there yeah I gotta it's it's crazy um yeah I don't know like I often get a decent amount of armor and like get someone who comes from Hardcore always already while leveling I try to roll a granite flask with increased armor and all that so like for me the physical hits often don't deal that much damage but when you curse of vulnerability from like the map or from a random monster and then you have that 20 ish percent chance to be inflicted with the bleed from the hit the armor does nothing against the bleed right so you get hit by a hit that didn't look that big but all of a sudden your life goes like I definitely want to wanna deal with bleeds as soon as possible whereas with poisons I always feel like I got a little bit more leeway to to regen through or to uh I don't know poison unless it's Stacks is super okay whereas uh with bleeds like one bleed can already make your day end so that's why also very willingly do use the The Shield MOD that you just brought up in The Crucible yeah that one's huge the mod that gives you recover three percent life on spell suppress it's basically like elevor at the helmet but you get it on whatever you want it's cracked yeah it's like spark Mages don't exist anymore like I think like 10 of mobs don't exist anymore because of that one honestly like um once you have like a mod like that you realize how much [ __ ] is actually a spell yeah yeah it's like it's really it a lot of stuff that it's like just uh completely upset by that for sure but I don't know I never really have too many problems with like small hits outside of like very early it just the problematic stuff always ends up becoming like the the big old slams I was wondering and be extreme you didn't get a chance to speak while we were on the topic uh the moment to moment counter play I mean you you talked about building around challenging monsters and and certain threats but do you feel there's a good moment-to-moment counter play like gameplay wise in terms of positioning or in terms of like doing the right thing at the right time in the map rather than building your build in a way that it doesn't threaten you I just have the complete opposite approach like the thing is like my play style will never change I'm like tuna I go in I press buy clear but you know and I want to like recharge I want to like listen to music or whatever I would just want to kill monsters I don't want to read the text you know I mean if I die I die I mean constant death portal fixes that usually right but honestly the way I think it's like yeah I know um I just want to build my character to counter everything that could harm me for example like I have like a list you know like ailment immunity stunned immunity corruptive blood immunity bleed immunity poison immunity this this this this enable this right and when I create a pub I'm like okay I'm working my way down you know how do I get this this this okay voice the immunity how do I get this okay I need this monster three I need an innovation helmet so I'm going to try to figure out my build that it literally doesn't need any counter play because it kind of like does everything basically right which is hard to build obviously and not like the cheapest thing especially on League start is like impossible to do but as I'm just building today my my bleep Gladiator I'm literally going down the list and say like before I even start mapping with the build I want to like check everything but it could that can actually become dangerous for me right so I'm like okay last character I had problems with poison I need poised immunity okay I figured that with that Mastery I just got my checklist and now at some point you should have a character you go into map and you don't really care what's gonna happen because you will counter or you thought about all of these things beforehand because I just I just want to go in I want to kill monster I want to pick up the loot and don't worry about that this monster is bad and this mod is bad and this is like terrible so I will never worry about my culture play unless it's like a boss where it actually needs like some kind of like dodging skills I guess yeah I mean on that note like it's crazy how people don't buy up especially early there's synth belts with um immune to bleed or immune to poison red you can get them pretty damn early I bought I think on day three um a belt i-86 with bleeding cannot be inflicted 10 Le damage and eight percent movement speed for I think I don't know 50c or something right it's crazy like you can get bleed immune poison immune you can also get a ring implicit if you have a unique ring red stuff like that there's definitely ways to do it which is so rare you know like yeah I mean you you don't make it yourself you just yeah exactly but this thing is actually rare but this is like all the things I kind of missed the days they know like the classic method build you know oh I'm rescap negative 60 chaos I don't care 4K life good job that was Acro that was when Acro was a thing though that you can't do that anymore yeah Echo was uh and nowadays you have like even in soft Court there's this palette of like this this this this this and I need to like figure out everything and to be honest like I think self current hardcore builds nowadays are like very similar there is like some small adjustments if I think back like how the Classic Soft Core build looked like compared to the classic hardcore build you know they were like big Parts like they were a part really apart right but nowadays I think you can like 90 of softcore builds you could technically play in hardcore in the other way around I think that's because I think like one big factor would be that a lot of hardcore players don't play hardcore anymore but just play their playstyle and softcore instead yeah but you go ahead palestron totally that and also so back in the day I remember it other than acrophase Acro defensive layers would sacrifice so much of your damage to get it would be like if I get armor back in the day it would be weaker and I lose like half of my damage Grace wasn't as good to be fair evasion was always decent but it was nowhere near where it was right now so if you went out of your way to get a defensive player now you're sacrificing half of your damage sometimes even more whereas nowadays it's like I'm sacrificing a flask slot and an aura which maybe gave me like 15 20 more damage and that can be actually not die other than like instead of one every five Maps I die one every 50 Maps right that's crazy that's like you didn't have that back in the day back in the day was acrophase Acro was super efficient and everything else was super inefficient so the the like logical conclusion was that all software players took that one defensive layer right um the the casino defensive player and everything else that just didn't take but nowadays there's so many options and builds can scale so high in terms of damage the people are like actually wait I have enough damage for whatever content I'm doing now let's get some layers on top right but it's like if you level a new character like usually level 24 you got your first debit genre you play like an adult you usually take a Melody I always get I always go Purity yeah but you usually just go your damage Aura first right yeah and since since the the major um defense mitigation patch might festive whatever it's either period of element for ailment immunity early on or determination and nowadays like race is actually Grace is actually in my opinion better than details I really like crazy yeah Grace is so good we're leveling yeah yeah okay definitely during the acts yeah I still like yeah I probably just use the determination early on but overall what I want to say is like you have like a character and if you don't invest heavily into like mono reservation efficiency you can maybe pick two to three hours where it used to be like three offensive hours right I need like probably I need every every damage right like almost none of my face builds are using Pride nowadays because I think like oh I'd rather have determination I'd rather have like a defines Banner Herald of Purity is fine enough it also have like at least like two defensive Aura and then we check and we feed in add damage all right no it's like it's crazy cool that you say that actually because I was like the other day I was looking at some of my pobs and I was thinking why isn't pale so out of favor nowadays I think one of the big reasons is for the Watchers eye and pale you actually need to run pride and then you kind of run actually low on other auras which is kind of just a random thought but yeah just pop them in yeah no it makes sense I also wanted to quickly add something you brought up the synthesized belt implicit and what popped into my head is like of course I'm animate weapon Summoner so I want to use Darkness enthroned right for the ghastly eye jewels and then something I wanted to highlight real quick is that I had a chance to avoid it has been buffed to up to 100 increased effect of soccer to the best tools on a perfect one and a well-world Abyss Jewel can have up to 50 chance to avoid bleeding as well as and poison red poison poison avoid shock all of those so you with one perfectly rolled Jewel in that belt socketed if the belt is perfectly rolled you get 100 and even if the belt is not perfect and the Jewel is not perfect you could still get a meaningful amount and like cap out the rest you also don't need them corrupted Jewel yeah you also no you don't even need that and you don't need a perfect roll you just need the the evasion Mastery for 30 [Music] um uh bleed chance to avoid and poison chest avoid sure if you're in that area of the tree that's definitely something you could do but uh universally I mean I I corrupt so many jewels looking for CB and stuff like that I'll always have like one with like you know 23 reduced effect of curses or something like that so it combines really well with with the mods from the abyss jewels in the build just wanted to highlight that in case people are unaware really good belt now hmm and you get a big thing is also that belt always like you can easily get that from the lab Runners already with a lab enchant red like you can buy them usually for like um a few divines with lemon chant whereas normally if you want to build an enchant you would pay like 15 divides or whatever which is really rough fair enough I actually never looked into that because I always run the Uber lab myself for the enchant no because it seems to be like such a marginal buff that I'm I'm never ready to pay a premium for it yeah but the thing is like it's not the same lab it's either like I don't know I'm not a lab rather I actually hate lab but it's like you have to pick like in the the gift or the tribute of the offering whatever you put in if you get like belt and chance helmet chance and whatnot right and usually when you go like for those services for the leopard chance then 95 the running helmet chance because they can do bulk selling right if you're really like if you go to lab Runner and say like hey I want you to enchant my belt then they're charging literally like 15 to 20 divides yeah or one and chance right but if you buy a stygian bias and you already know what enchant you want you can get it for like two divines or whatever same with some of the darkness and Thrones right that's what exactly it's basically like a free seventh mod yeah I just if I want to start crafting on a stitch and buys I usually just check which belts exactly and then you pay like one or two divines and you have the enchanted belt because you know if you're crafters and it's really good belt and you say like I wish I would have Enchanted you're gonna pay like 15 devices yeah it's crazy yep well I guess you could just like run bulk labs and whenever you don't get the enchant you want you just put it onto a random darkness and throne and put it up for sale yeah that's what they do yeah yeah it's a really good Wild Card build for enchanting just like there's a couple of helmets like the the crown of the inward eye or whatever it's called the helmet from Cirrus that people just enchant all the enchants with because they know no matter which enchant it is likely someone's gonna buy or human Circle it is also like the most common helmet actually yeah absolutely yeah so I think we've we've cried enough about the game and the gameplay but the challenge and the Monsters uh what are your currencies making strats this league are you all uh into beasts because like I figured that I hate selling beasts I hate telling them it's yeah I know it's consistent no mem no matter how overflown the market is dude I've seen people make so much money with that but I just can't be [ __ ] to sell that I just want to blast Legions I don't care seems crazy but Legions are Legions are Beyond actually uh we did Beyond test and um you get like 90 per map um on a sexton which is pretty good um and the maps are like two minutes so pretty consistent Money free money for I think how many Atlas passive points five yeah 12th which is pretty pretty decent returns especially now being able to just travel across the tree if you if you're on the blue side also like uh that's just just the currency right just to think the currency not even counting how much like daily debts or other currency that's so I think Beyond this actually right now pretty undervalued at least for now Telly's done bad though if we're not talking about daily orbs telegrams are fine but yeah Delhi mirror is really down bad oh yeah for sure like um feels not so good at the moment the best the best way to use it right now I feel like is to get to five rewards real quickly get get like free Daily Mirror um from the chance and get like one or two Deli orbs per map and just like I always quit at five that's exactly it yeah um and if you go Legion you stop at seven so it's like yeah I mean I tried daddy mirror it just it was okay it was really bad I was getting like seven seven rewards in strand seven or eight which is really good you know seven or eight rewards and Strat is really good it was getting like averaged like one or two deadly over super map if you're not blasting these maps in like a minute one or two Deli orbs it's just awful right it's like 14 chaos what am I doing right and it's like yeah so Ellie's actually pretty good deli's actually pretty good to just slam on uh one ring path right now because you get really a ton of chance I think you get to like 75 chance or something and then the the notables mostly just suck anyways on Delhi so it doesn't really matter like I can't remember is there other than the plus one on map completion there's like not a single good daily notable I think so if you're talking about like um whereas like Delhi orbs yeah yeah Deli orbs or Deli Ops are still cracked right like friend of mine is just like spamming skitterings all day and just yeah I did that for for a little bit it's really good money but it's it's scaring orbs yeah are you still from Delhi a lot of money I literally just blocked out every other league mechanic and just run daily mirrors you know with the uh stream of Consciousness because I icba like Choosing My Maps you know like I could go gamer and I have like in 10 Maps I usually get like eight daily mirrors and I think like if you're just mapping without like really focusing on daily just no juice yeah just like do your Cemetery doesn't have this on top and at the end of the day I can easily bulk sell my all the deli orbs for like seven eight divines extra or something it's just like a little bit problematic with the um Casa jewels in my opinion because the majority of like the the value of a cluster Jewels are all item level 84 that you don't get in a normal tier 16 map so that brings me back to the memories remember when we had like this oh you can still get them though you can still get them yeah from the rares from rares you can get them yeah if you got a few yeah yeah so I really miss those like watch Stones the unique watch stones from Cyrus and stuff where you had like plus one map level and you had like this t1900 daily you know where you're literally dropped like item level 86 plus stuff in the map and stuff that was like really cool I kind of missed this like opportunity to get like plus one area level and so on or if they would just scale the map level from like 83 to 16 to like 84 for example so you have like higher chance of getting actual 86 items and and stuff like that would be quite nice actually yeah but if you want to farm cluster tools just just do like uh [ __ ] some locker room I think that's what they wanted people to do to be honest which kind of sucks I ate some black room but yeah everybody does but yeah like down to like 27 chaos so it's like a crime to not run them like what you gonna do with like wave 12 in your profit like I remember I was just testing my SSD character I just throw in a simulacrum because I like you know when you farm dailies you have like not only the the stuff that drops from the rewards it's also like the deli orbs and the amount of simulacrums that you're farming which are super bad money actually because like one Divine gets you like I don't know like six simmers nowadays and I just throw them in because I wanted to test it you know yeah and like literally wave 15 or so I just dropped like a prime coding resonator you know the four socket one sells for like 35c or whatever you know oh Simo is paid like like racist profit you know it's like not running seamless is actually a crime but like I do this like every time but I cannot force myself ever leak to do like a 60 Sims or 100 Sims project because it's so boring but it's still like if I'm literally desperate for current see I buy a couple Sims and I'm just going to run them because it is like free money like all the time but it's so boring you know it's like the first like 50 waves there would be a way to start and weigh 50 for example or wave 20 so you only do 20 to 30 then maybe it would be interesting right but the first like 15 waves is like white tier Maps you know like this it takes like a minute per way for like 40 seconds or something it's like the bad part about it I guess that's a good thing to say for like anybody that's that's like just starting the league and has a build that can even go to like wave 20 20 23 even when does when does the id4 stuff the stuff start to drop I think that like wave 20 is when it starts right yeah like if you can make it to wave 20 you're already making money like in simos so it's like a good way to like not even read it's probably less than 20 yeah I mean the price of Sims don't really matter at like you you don't do that many you don't burn through that many Sims so it's not really like it seems are not worth it because they only cost 40c right it's like the difference is like like let's say you do two sims per hour which is pretty standard right uh the difference between Sims being 4dt or being 100 C is like negligible right like what do you make per hour seven eight divines right if you're doing XP and everything right now um because XP isn't worth that much anymore I mean what's that like 120 C gonna do per hour it's like that's not gonna make or break it so just because simos are like cheap doesn't mean that they're worth it but but then again symbols are always worth it like simos are always money it's like yeah you're crazy so but you're saying it's more about the time that you're not spending it's about the time you are spending it it doesn't matter it's like they're always worth it if they were right now 100 C they would still be cracked right that's what I'm saying yeah it's just a little barrier to entry that's all yeah I'm gonna test that if you say I don't even need to get to wave 20 I'm sure I can make some money doing it I mean with 20 you'll you'll get there if you fall asleep even yeah because I think a lot of people have like this misconception that they think that Sims are only worth it if you clear away 30 in the entire thing which is just not really true because it's actually not even worth it yeah no I think usually if you hit like the wave 25 like usually you have like this one wave that counters your build let's say you have like an ignite build and all of a sudden you have like this 80 fire rest whatever and you feel like hey if cozy spawns I need like three four minutes this is where you have this model like 25 or so you just leave it up the next Sim because like instead of like spending four minutes or five minutes for this one wave because they're so tanky you could already be like wave seven on the next Sim on the next Simo yeah and since the barrier to entry is so low like the lower the barrier to entry is the more worth it is to skip right like um we're obviously not talking like a geared out Venom jar or a sparker right like that it doesn't matter where 30 is the same as wave 23 right but if we're talking like more leak start or mid budget it's definitely worth like skipping once you see that your characters falling off and just doing the next one on Amazon yeah yeah remember we don't have to fight through all the first waves again that are not worth it doing well think about it this way a lot of bills that fall off at around 25 26 waves 25 to 30 if they have to fight through right when it gets that tanky they could in that time go from 1 to 18 or 19 or 20 again where they are in the money again and and it starts somewhere around 10 where you start making like good money right so so it's like yeah it's not a question now yeah sometimes I do test my build and just upload a complete uncut simulator from 1 to 30. it's usually a video about 32 minutes or something and then you would think about like okay if I go to the middle of the video I should be wave 15 because like half the time right but it's not true in the middle of the video you're usually about 20 22 yeah exactly so the last 10 take you longer time than the first 20 for example yeah so it's like it's really once you hit like a hard mod like you when I played Poison concoction you have like this extra chaos modifiers literally just this one wave was like three or four minutes where I could do like seven or eight other waves in the next one so is that if you can get yourself to do this like boring process of doing simulacrums there is just no way you're not going to make currency and you have on top these like these like Cherry drops where you could say like hey technically a three passive voices and one passive voices sometimes a sick megalomaniac which is sometimes Niche but some megalomaniacs go for like I don't know like a 50 device or even more if it has like awesome combination also ever since they made uh they gave uh the new recipe for scarabs scarabs are way better way easier to sell now and way more valuable like all of them have value with growing hordes especially right like all of them have value it used to be that I I hid scarabs right well I'm doing symbol like the shitty ones and now it's like no they're all just like money whenever you get a Scarab node like one Scarab node usually pays for the symbol yeah it's insane so yeah it's all about just how fast you clear them that's why once you clear them not fast enough you just you go again you drop two two Guild of uh herbs and you've made back those who yeah it's broken especially like yeah like being able to swap gilded scarabs like if you're doing scaring orbs that's that's what you do right you take all your yielded scarabs and you swap them over to um you know gilded div or Gilda's exped rather query stuff like that yeah ambition same with Deli warps as soon as we go to harvest where we could actually change scarabs and change daily orbs and change all these like Stacks this is when like everything became valuable but I do agree with like this character thing because even like the most useless one or the one that you take for like growing hordes and just throw them in for extra quantity you know yeah yeah they're just recycled that bad stuff and I think that's really good because like honestly there's like I don't know like 30 different scarabs and there's like five or six that are good and the rest is like whatever you know it's like not existing but now it is so it's pretty good I agree I like it which ones like Expedition scarabs for sure are good for the people specked into that gift card scare reps best area different scares sort of thing Beast Cherry I just used that I was surprised to see earlier like rusted beasters scared 1C only and the the polished is like two and a half C or something like that not even that much if you think about it that guarantees please cherry on every single map and everything is also still money right reliquary is it is it but I think nowadays with Mage blood and this like Chase uniques maybe it is but no not really the other queries worth like I think seven six years yeah oh that's definitely worth selling yeah Ambush is quite valuable I think with all this like Atlas passive notes with like double drops from chests and stuff like that it's like pretty good Harvey's pretty whatever wait Legion no nobody wants Legion I think the Nerf star Business League by the way like um tin floating but man like I did like there's like 150 Maps I dropped 10 uh fracture whatever what are they called let's drink shards yeah yeah I dropped 10 fractury shards damn that's not good full Jews or Sexton yeah with this well it's like full juice it's literally just Sexton and Polished Scarab right it was just [ __ ] that sucks I think fashion show should be more common if you ask me what our friction watch these days like five dividers or something six or seven I think I'm not sure correct plus three they're like 29 or so so divide that by four and it's roughly the price I'd say but yeah I need to check I don't know how much they cost I wish they would have something like an optional crafting bench where you could just fracture a fixed modifier for five fracturing orbs on the crafting bench because it's like RNG thing you get like a really expensive at least 10 or so I just matter but give me a chance that I can I that I can choose you know how bad it feels if you have like this this one like let's say you have like a perfect 179 merciless Mod on your weapon you're like I need this you know and then you end up lecturing like 13 fire rest the item is dead because you cannot like imprint it back right because like no you cannot imprint back fractures a friend of mine actually made money um making Jewels like large cluster Jewels right where three of the mods are good outcomes and then you just like fracture an orbs them and then sells them for like 20 divines each or something right which always has to do is like chaos spam over and over until he gets at least figured outcomes and he almost never breaks right you make pretty crazy money I don't know if you can still do that um he did that on uh 12 passive minions and he did that on uh I think 12 passive lightning or something I can't remember but yeah so degenerate yeah foreign I think it's awesome like every every one of us knows like these weird people who are never sharing their strats they do the same thing every league and it's just super profitable but once they share it it would be completely useless I think that's [ __ ] wild and funny yeah usually usually those people share their threats when you found something even worse or even crazier and yeah then they share it yeah I'm going this next time you could have my old spread messages no fast crawling still so mad profitable like sitting in your hideouts and the spamming flasks until you got decent combination of tier one and T2 mods I believe it yeah I think something like that always retains value because there's just so few people who are willing to do that consistently right most people would rather play the game I was surprised how much money I made day one just like picking up id4 flasks it was actually kind of in just like selling Jade Granite Quicksilver for like 10 chaos each was crazy also a Divine Life flask now with Pathfinder yeah true Pathfinders just like the base yeah have you guys found any good use for the uh Eldritch gateways or the gateways on the tree in general um the atlas passive tree I mean I know there's the the Eldritch gateways are actually kind of useful if you want to play a tree on the left side and then go on to the right side to pick up the eater yeah that's like the I think that's the only thing I've done the problem for me is always with the gateways is it's two points that do nothing and the small nodes on the tree are actually pretty damn good yeah yeah so often like if I have to travel four or five points right and I save three points it would still be better to just travel there because the small notes are pretty good also like in endgame you always want to go up top anyways for the smaller so then so then the question is like where it's was it actually good are like some of the best on the tree yeah even exactly the chance to duplicate map so it's more for me to think about like getting that early when you don't have enough passives and then later just I'm taking all the small nodes anyways I don't like packing my maps with all these different things like if my maps are not rainbows it's like two colors and then the rest is like just travel notes right like ones travel notes yeah yeah like what I'm doing is try I don't want to be doing like yo that'd be cool if I have like Legion and exped spawn once in a while it's like nah I just want to be like Legion and then yeah have like boxes to press or something so you just focus on one mechanic or like yeah like usually I wanted to yeah and then just like because because if I'm like trying to min max the mechanic I will be buying like sextants and stuff and that's that's where the bulk of the profit would come from right like 80 or 90 of your profit comes from that so why would I spend time doing other [ __ ] right yeah I just want to run as many of that mechanic per hour there's always one mechanic that's better than the other and you would rather run more of that and also have map compilation so you get the invitations and stuff so it's like yeah yeah exactly yeah right so packing the maps to full takes too long and then you slow down yeah and then you also get some progress towards the uh invitations and you also get more free daily mirrors if you open another map and stuff like that so yeah they also like this this problem that since we do have the atlas tree and since we can scale our favorite League mechanic which is great you know but it just feels like that if you have if you find a leak mechanic in your map and you have inspect into it it's okay yeah yeah that's what you do you just go down and you block every single leak mechanic that you have inspect into because you know yourself you wouldn't do them anyways because you know why would you and this is like good and bad at the same time because honestly I I like before we had this Atlas passive tree and you and you could block your um your stuff I think like Rihanna's like bad taste you open the map and actually what you want to do is you want to kill the monsters in the map kill the map boss God open next but on the way you have like every single leak mechanic and doing those next to each other you're like I need to do it because it would be like wasted currency if I don't do it because it's like extra loot extra monsters blah blah blah you know but you end up taking like four or five times the duration of your actual map just doing site mechanics and at some point you're like hey let me just like I don't want to have any Lead Me Kennedy just let me go into my map kill the map balls go out have fun you know and I don't want to see blight over there Legion over there Abyss over there it's like frustrating a little bit you know but to be to be fair I guess maybe I'm just remembering but you already skipped a lot of mechanics before it like because they weren't worth it it was just more about balancing and now it's just about like make your own map so yeah I think I think overall it's good right I don't know how we you would even balance that otherwise I guess I mean either it feels not worth doing the mechanics about the tree or it feels uh not worse to enjoy them at all yeah yeah yeah like for me the best notes and yet the [ __ ] trees are the ones that block leak mechanics like honestly yeah yeah I love those as well how many leak mechanics do you block I mean there was this whole math example when that was first introduced that like the best way to go about it is like to block six or seven or something like that do you end up blocking more I mean that's very very weird I mean it just depends how many points do you have well someone worked it out numerically like there is there's nothing to be worked out numerically there like it depends on what you're farming right I think yeah so good uh if yeah for example uh pastor and I are playing like Legion right now and the percent chance to spawn an additional Legion is like um it's like affected by blocking mechanics right because you have a higher percent of spawning in and on top of that if you take like the extra response so you can have like a map where you you force like two but you get like four right so in those cases it's good but if I just want to do Harvest I just put the Harvest on a map device so or this accident I don't have to block anything so I could just use those points on like adjacent nodes or or duplicate nodes yeah also if you have like two or three mechanics that you do at once for example I don't know Essence strong boxes or Essence Expedition or something um it gets it's worth more because now it's two percent chance for this and for this right um so there's way more to it right and it's also like how many points do you have sometimes it's like like you don't you don't have to block a mechanic to not do it you can also just walk by it right so you don't have the points yeah you just don't do it so if you don't have the points because you need to take another cluster it's like okay so I'm not getting the chance but boohoo right like for example uh a node let's say four percent chance to get a Daily Mirror right that's a good note right for one point but two percent chance eh right so are you actually gonna block something else if you could invest that into something else you don't need to block it right it's just two percent more chance to get other stuff so it's like I don't know people people like it there's no like blank way to say this is like worth this much it's completely different it always depends I think I think what you're referring to I think what you're referring to is a dude who worked out if you wanted all mechanics no no yeah if your occurrence rate basically yeah as many mechanics as possible in your map which is just completely bogus for yeah of course it doesn't apply practically to any like real gameplay situation yeah that's that's fair to say yeah I think um I think the Alice is in a pretty good State though in terms of like allowing us to run the content we want to run and stuff I think I wish the TP would only take one point if the TP would only take one point like the portals that would be insane yeah that'd be cool for sure but I definitely I definitely think like the Salas is uh it's been really a highlight of the last few leagues yeah and I think it's really been like the thing that's been holding it together because I don't particularly feel like you know uh yeah sanctum was great but I don't particularly feel like the mechanics have really carried the last few leagues but um the really it's just been the atlas um my only gripe right now is that like it's been some time now that we've had this Atlas And it'd be nice to get some sort of like some some kind of like shake up a little bit um but that's I think a symptom of the fact that like the lead mechanics themselves are not exactly uh popping off in terms of like oh I need to I want to do this [ __ ] you know yeah like like it used to be sort of like I don't know the last three mechanic that I could think of that was like super super POG that I had to farm it was like it's even hard to think but like probably like old tomatoes like think about think about it this way 3.17 the tree came out right like what I would have loved is okay 3.17 Arch M nothing to add right 3.18 okay now there's like three new Sentinel clusters and we're gonna phase out like torment or whatever Right 3.19 comes out sanctum and they're just like sanctum in the game but the problem is they just stopped adding League mechanics so the atlas just kept being stale right so yeah figure out a way again where they could Implement that the atlas would be hype as hell or or make it like rotations where um the atlas tree looks different and you just have certain amount of lean mechanics cycle in and cycle out right every League yeah but this is like the big problem I had this like discussion so my stream so often the problem is if you say you earn Expedition ND and all you care about is Expedition and there is this one League where Expedition doesn't exist you would just not play it because yeah there is no Expedition that's true no so that is awesome yeah um and you always have these like kind of people like I think that Kobe black member is farming Delhi since daily League like the last 10 leaks trade every League daily I think there is a league where there's no Delhi he would be like completely lost man you know so you kind of like do that kind of stuff either you know but I think I think a lot of things has to do even though tinfall had a bit but puree too you know think about when is the when was the last leak mechanical in core and I'm not talking about um decor it was actually Expedition afterwards Scourge what happened to Scourge I mean now we have Beyond Scourge you know but the league mechanic itself is gone then we go over a 317 arch nemesis in out in out I think they still want to slowly get it back in you know like this kind of thing but the leak mechanic itself how it worked is gone Sentinel gone then you had Lake of Calandra the tablet gone you know like since 3.15 which is not a sixth League nothing went core and I almost guarantee you that this league mechanic [ __ ] will also not go core so I'm thinking like it's all like testing testing testing we all know eop2 will save everything you know and uh it's going to be great and whatnot but I don't think or I don't believe that this league or next League or the league afterwards is gonna be anything super crazy I don't really think that they I think the best time to actually get mechanics League mechanics into the game right now to get them into the core game to revamp the atlas passive tree because they need to do that then you know so think about it this way like it's like ultimatum I think most people loved right it's so simple and it was just fun right um I think Sentinel was mostly beloved right like recombinators were nice but I I thought about this the other day even if recommodators weren't the thing I think I would still like Sentinel quite a bit it would still be top five for me great blasting mechanic yeah tons of rewards directly no delay now Calandra I could do without right but I think Calandra the lead mechanic itself was shitty but the base game being shitty made it as shitty as it was right like I think the lead mechanic maybe could have been saved but whatever let's leave that out but then we also have forbid sanctum which people loved so there's like three leaks that people absolutely loved where before you could definitely feel that um after a leaked it would feel out how did people like it and if they liked it they put it in now it feels like they don't they just blank it don't do it anymore so so I I agree that it could be that it could also just be that they want to focus now on making League mechanics stronger than they used to maybe that's why we like them so much because they shake up everything so much but they just say afterwards we don't want to deal with the balance and we're just gonna sort of like rotate it out and make it a fresh experience every single time right that could also be the kids I mean for ultimatum they specifically said they're waiting for a good time and place to make it come back in a way that makes sense that kind of makes sense yeah exactly it's it's already kind of in the game right like if they bring it back it's well but think about it another way um how impactful those things were like for example they have to bring back Sentinel and recombinators how are they going to bring back recombinators and balance it without being your period second thing think about uh Sanctum another item slot right okay that's power [ __ ] as hell Crucible bring that back trees on your weapon your shield and maybe your helmet how are you going to balance that there's so much power creep on proper power creep but I think I think my theory where they just like discard them afterwards and they just want to make everything fresh is more likely than them bringing all of them back yeah I mean we're getting into the phase of like I think the mechanics are mostly becoming like and I talked about this as well like with my chat a bit but like it's hard power and I I'm like I know people are like very divided on this my opinion on our power is that it's good because in a game like Path of Exile you can't really keep adding power onto the game without without breaking the game really like and getting to the point where everything has to be blanket buffed again or whatever the hell so I think the way that they're just tackling power creep just by giving us like something really cool and Powerful every league but then taking it away at the end of the next League but uh I think like still like when you compare like the uniques we have now um the items we have now compared to I don't know say like 312 or something like the builds have been stronger stronger than they've ever been yeah uh outside of like uh head under self-curs of course right um but yeah I mean like obviously they buff monsters to compensate for that too so it doesn't really feel like that but once you get to like end end game things do get pretty pretty powerful like in every League we have as long as we have like a powerful system to engage in I think it'll feel fine as long as like that system itself is like pog um I feel like the problem that I have with it I wish they whenever a league is over they would put it in the main game and then rotate an old one out because I I feel kind of bad engaging with the lead mechanic so much like I did in sanctum or in Sentinel like I was super all in on it but then my knowledge kinda is lost immediately which kind of feels bad to me it's kind of like it was always the way where you engage with the lead mechanic you know next League that's going to pay off there was a lot of times in the past where I was super engaged in for example Heist or something um or or Delhi before where you learn a lot and the next League even though you have to have like a scare up for it or it's a lot less chance you knowing that mechanic will get you like a lot of currency right because you you now understand and that kind of is kind of missing right now so I wish they made it so it phases out slowly but they phase out older ones first right I wish that was kind of the the way they went about it but yeah yeah I was gonna say that it then has to compete like the new league has to be stronger than the old league but that's not exactly exactly true because when something goes core then it occurs also far less frequently than the new league right so if we now had sank them at a 10 spawn rate then you know the people who don't like this league and who Miss sanctum would still have something to do in the game but at the same time it wouldn't like have to compete in terms of rewards with The Crucible that you kind of have to make actually the leak mechanic always superior to everything else because this is the main point why we enjoy the new league because there is new stuff to do right so what happens if you bring a leak mechanic that is not that engageful and that is Crucible like honestly like if I ask 100 people hey how do you like Crucible like oh wait is that the league we can't like they don't even like they never interact with it so they feel like hey if I don't play the leak mechanic I'll play standard do I want to play standard no so let's wait for nextly so they always they are like forced to make the the card League mechanic as good as possible mostly like outshining others so people actually come back and play the game right and they there's nothing wrong with it I feel no absolutely not but I I always be the most interesting the most rewarding yeah but I think those failed this time around I don't think so like look at all the new builds like there's zero chance I will ever play Rolling magma again in my life like yeah 100 degree like but exploding look at the builds right look at all the builds that are now possible like there's like 30 new builds because of The Crucible trees yeah it's not like whereas other league mechanics are more obvious because they're in maps and they're in your face it's now about like build making and while I get that some people don't care about builds it's like it's just as other people don't care about crafting right so people know about crafting so in crafting leagues they don't get it's like it's like a cycle but the lead mechanic is still there it's just different right it's still there it's just not like a mapping mechanic quote unquote I I 100 agree with you but gameplay wise I think it's just not there right it's not enough yeah there's definitely something missing but I'm just saying that playing standard is just I can't agree because like yeah the amount of crazy builds that are out there is insane like there's so many ideas where I'm like shocked nobody has done it yet it's insane yeah this is because like a lot of people are not this way like if you're like newer to the game let's say this is your third league for example when do you actually start making your own builds when you actually start figuring out wait a second I could combine this in that item that actually happens maybe after like a thousand hours in the game probably two thousand hours after you copied like 10 different builds and you start working on your own steps you know so this will not apply to the majority to probably 95 of the player base that are really willing to say like I'm gonna Open Pub now I saw this like one extra Crucible Note 3 and I had a weapon with this so I need to build around it this is like I'm not even I'm not even saying like they have to make their own build but it's just like even following other people's builds like there's there's so many skills that are viable this league that will never be viable again because we see that GG doesn't do these balancing passes right like there's skills that have been like rolling magma like when did you play Rolling magma like never it's impossible realizing music I've played it with Cyrus blazing Salvo I mean it's not terrible but you wouldn't play it right and now it's insane on with the new foregrate stuff like that explodey told them right there's so many new year things and that's just the surface of it right at the end of the leak there's going to be 20 new builds that you can play yeah yeah but sadly probably only this league because next League yeah yeah but that's still a unique thing this league so it can't be standard right if it's gone it's at this league yeah maybe they're implementing all these crazy things to see what build enabling stats would be worth implementing in another maybe is to make more skills viable I mean we always hypothesize about them like testing things for going into Poe too they're testing threshold Jewels got them potential threshold Maps yeah but then they remove like a [ __ ] out of threshold Jewels back in the dish stop okay maybe just making space for new ones maybe yeah exactly like spark Nova but I still think like the base game itself isn't that a box though that yeah now I have it on Helm enchant yeah and you get a dual circuit yeah a minus three approach is fun with this amount of of insanely strong Jewels it's like every build kind of has to have like 10 Jewel slots nowadays because like forbidden flame yeah you have like storm shroud you have like this new um visual thing where half your spell suppression you know you have like Grand spectrums like I could easily like every build that I play right now I wish I would have like 15 Jewel slots because I was so powerful in this game every second build on pure ninja that has forbidden Jewels shouldn't have forbidden jewels they should just have like crit multi under Jewels everybody's missing crit multi and everybody goes for these like mid-tier forbidden flesh from inflamed Jewels it's crazy yeah but now even like with the with the adaption to the Grand spectrums which I think are amazing with like minimal friends you can't you can't run them so you can't run them yeah but this costs like three Jewel slots for being flame flesh you want to have a Watcher's eye you want to have a storm shroud you know and you're like where where is the space do I need to run like all voices to fit in like a rare Jewel with corrupted blood you know it's like it's funny on some building now you think like uh I need a cluster just because I need an extra socket yeah exactly like literally today when I made my blito I'm like I need more Jewel slots so I opted off like okay less live I need to pass down here because I need this you know I need another large plaster Jewel just to get two Jewel slots you know so yeah and that pisses me off though because corrupted blood exists that she needs to go yeah it is annoying I mean bro like not everyone can take the mastery like Invasion builds like I don't know I don't know it's like it's kind of annoying like I don't like these binary like you lost lol you know like it's like I'll get a jewel like I don't know hmm yeah I mean that's kind of the same as with the investing into mechanics right if you make them not good enough then No One's Gonna feel it's worth investing into a mechanic if you make them too good then people don't feel it's worth to to run a mechanic if they're not invested into it in the same way I'd rather have a world where you know I'm struggling to get enough Jewel sockets because Jewels are so powerful and I have to decide do I put like a rare Jewel or this unique or that one or like a pair of forbidden Jewels yeah because I only have so many sockets I kind of like that pressure I don't mind that too much another question I wanted to quickly ask out a curious curiosity well undoubtedly this leak has a lot of effect on the way how the game is played from an economy since a point of view or from a build possibility point of view so it does permeate the league but how do you feel in general about opt in leagues like mechanics that don't really do anything I mean this Hook's also a little bit back to the balance that we were talking about earlier where map bosses feel like they're non-existent versus the league specific mods which mobs which often are stronger than Pinnacle bosses and they're in your map but a reason why they're so strong is that GGG has decided at some point in the past we're going to make all the leak mechanics or most of them opt in so like you have to click the thing in the map and that makes it so that people can't really complain if it's like really hard because it's optional you don't have to do it so the last leak that I think wasn't completely opt-in I think was betrayal that that's how far it is back right like everything else was always you click something in a map or you walk over something or you interact with something in a certain way and otherwise you're playing standard do you think that that's generally a good thing do you would you like to see more more um more mechanics that permeate through the game without opt-in or do you think that's that's the right decision so so you can see a clear pattern for example from Reddit saying this league mechanic is like standard right which is just not true on the surface level that I think um in general it would be better for us not to have opt-in to like basically just like I don't know throw the league mechanic over people's head so they can actually see it right like with the new builds it's like hey we have new builds here that's the league mechanic right um but people don't see that without you showing it to them right so I think opt-in in general is worse however opt-in is the safe option because now if your lead mechanic sucks and everybody can't opt out out you're screwed right so they go for the safe route but the better version would always be you have to engage with the league mechanic otherwise people don't even understand what's going on right like for example like this league is standard and then on the same vein everybody posts like explodey totem pages right like time standard I'm just like do you understand what you like what do you mean so it's like I think opt-in is generally worse but it's it's so unsafe like if if you if you don't have your league mechanics on point you're screwed yeah but I think it goes back to again the the mechanic side of things like the The Crucible trees that [ __ ] is amazing that's like like one of the coolest things we've gotten yeah forever I think it's cooler than like any of the mechanics we've had since yeah like I can't think of the last one that I like better than this in regards to like build diversity and being able to come up with cool [ __ ] new interactions because that's that's fun as hell as a build Creator but in terms of like I'm in the map I click the thing I wait there um and then I spawn [ __ ] Exodia you know that's that doesn't feel good that's actually yeah like and that's that's why people are like oh it's standard because because it just doesn't feel good but like I completely agree with you on the build side of things yeah about this like standard talking right this obviously people have access to Crucible trees and they most likely have it on their current thing because hey you have a web that has a crucible treat let's slap on something they made it that the first note cannot break you build basically right so you're safe just throw it on see what you get right maybe it's cool maybe you level it up but the thing is like playing standard in that case if you're not engaging with a league mechanic you see this like Forge and you run past it because you don't want to check you don't want to stand still you don't want to channel you don't want to respond [ __ ] Exodia like these unique monsters you know you don't want to deal with that [ __ ] so what you're doing is playing the new league without the new league besides having a crucible Tree on your weapon and this is referred to I feel like playing standard if I'm not engaging with the league mechanic so there's like two separate part of things if you say like the board power part or actually doing something with League mechanic and honestly that would be two easy steps to fix it right first of all make like buttons like four buttons 25 50 7 500. you go in there you click this thing and then monster like spawn do a small animation where lava goes up attack once respawn and that's it you know I don't want to like the main problem people have is like this channeling and then there's like a volatile the poison ball can fly in your way and you're like oh [ __ ] I need to get out there you stop you move away from that oh League mechanic spawns because you left the circle this is like weird right the next thing that I would do to make it like more interesting imagine if we keep the channeling Pace right imagine every let's say 20 of your channel you're gonna spawn like a daily reward you know like on the bottom side or let it be Legion let it be anything like um a treasure icon you know yeah and every 20 you get another treasure icon plus one on the first one you have rewards yeah the longer you channel the more rewarding it's gonna get so people gonna go there and they're gonna be like oh [ __ ] I got a currency thingy I'm gonna go 80 said this time around you know so but then you kill the monsters and even if you don't interact with the mechanic there is something that drops anything like we have this Tech in the game with like um delirium for example where the stackable rewards we have the same with Legion with the same with like uh blight chest like do some just add something like that in there and I guarantee you that people would play The League mechanic even though if they are not interested in actually forging their weapon and doing that kind of things but if you put in a league mechanic where there's like literally No Loot dropping 90 will skip it because they say like I cannot get a Divine from it like yo I can get it if I Forge 100 bows and maybe one of them has the tree but it sells for three divines which then feels bad because you cannot afford the imprint the split piece because then you're losing out on another three divines because you could split the trees and sell it twice you know like this is like the main problem so these two things I would say I would say would be an easy fix an easy solution and that would bring more people to actually use the link mechanic I think I totally agree with that yeah it has to have both components it doesn't just have to be like it has also has to have currency here's something though that I always hate about new lead mechanics and that is true for every single lead mechanic but one ever right why were they so so they had ultimatum Lake right and they learned a valuable lesson there which was like what six seven weeks ago they learned that it's really nice to be immune while you're choosing stuff right oh yes please why was that not a lesson learned that you literally used on every lead mechanic ever like whenever I have to do betrayal right and I have to like choose stuff it's super annoying right and that's the same for this time if I have to I didn't see that on my ballista build I just put down my ballistas everything around me dies while I charge right now I charge if stuff goes at me I have to like like what do I do it's so annoying it's like why is this not a feature on literally every lead mechanic ever that has some kind of choice in the map I don't understand because like Monsters get aggroed from like two screens away they just come at you it's like [Music] I I don't understand this is something I will never understand like they they literally hit the jackpot with ultimatum it's like this is the way to do it and they're like nah it's like I don't know I will never understand okay well it has weird never understood implications for group play go first tune up please hey imagine you just took like ultimatum which is practically like this league is a circle you walk in it you see the thing you click it imagine you just they just tick that and then they put the Sentinel tree and it just it would be like literally the best league ever yeah it'd like actually be like everybody would love it yeah it's it's so like a three ten percent increased uh charges per I don't know yeah whatever like yeah there's so much like it was just too little this lead mechanic is just too little as much as I'm defending it right there's obviously like so many holes and especially since this is a four month leak right if I remember correctly yeah like the the gameplay like in map what I'm doing uh it's like right now it's all brain stuff like I'll build this that I'm working towards this tree whatever but then like when you're just like you have your build you're done you're happy you want to farm uh you want to kill some monsters it doesn't feel good at all in that regard unfortunately I was kind of hoping that after week one or week two we get like like it was in sanctum we get another content yeah a little extra but I don't know I don't think it's gonna happen anymore be holding my breath for too long now yeah yeah that's a really unfortunate one I I also expected that you know with the sanctum I thought they were setting a precedent there that they're purposefully like keeping something to add to the league that just is some exciting one like because what happens a lot is The Blasters get to the very top end content and explore everything really early but if you keep back some of the content then you get everyone into the league first everyone gets on the same level first with the help of the content creators and if they then add on something like with sanctum the the um unique relics right that a lot of challenge runs and stuff like that then you got something that is new for everyone two weeks in whereas normally like someone who plays full-time would already be done seeing everything and Export everything after two weeks yeah I like the I like that yeah I mean there's obviously upsides of downtime signs to that approach you know purposefully holding back content but I feel like this patch could have really used some and it's kind of scary seeing that you know this league is going to go on for four entire months until after exalcon and all we've gotten since patch 321.0 C was uh was bug fixes and acknowledgments of bugs or things not working properly but the developers haven't been sharing any thoughts on you know how rewarding the league is how much friction it offers is there's no where we're currently discussing how we could make it more appealing to people it feels like they're already sort of done with it I don't want to think that I hope that there's still some adjustments coming to make them more appealing for other people but at this point I feel like it's already like if they wanted to just add generic rewards similar to MB extreme suggestion or what I just showed on stream uh never sings tweet uh in the beginning like after the launch weekend had a very similar suggestion with uh currency on the bottom and I mean it's really intuitive we already have the reward symbols from other leagues right that could be just something like that I think that the biggest problem is just for many people the the overwhelming build possibilities are great but they're not compelling enough as like a carrot on the stick at the very end they're too far off to Warrant engaging with the mechanic in every single map especially because the average return seems to be so bad which I guess is completely fair if you look at the very top end of power that is provided by the league but I I feel like a good League always has these two components right like something long term to work towards and something that rewards you for engaging on a map to map basis yeah I agree for sure and that's just currently sadly not the case true true well we already brought up some simple improvements that could make it better for everyone well what are you guys expecting or hoping to see for Poe too or for the expansion that will be revealed at exalcon I'll go first real quick because I have this Theory where um similar to how betrayal brought back three beloved leaks from before and tied them together right we had einhardt and Nico oh you're so coping right now oh my God you get einhardt bringing back please sure you gotta get Alva bringing back incursion and Nico bringing back delve and it all neatly tied together in a package because like for the entire game that changed the way how we play and how we think about the game I'm just hoping that they bring back some of the the classic leagues of the past year or two that we all have been missing in a system that makes sense and honestly if you think about it it's not so far off because Last Exile con they not only revealed Poe 4.0 AKA poe2 which we didn't know that they were going to reveal that they said beforehand we're going to talk about upcoming patches expansion stuff like that but first they hit us with the real Banger poe2 is going to come it's somewhere on the horizon and then on top of that they announced 3.9 which had metamorph which is a rather merely right something on top but 3.9 was one of the biggest expansion with like five new end game bosses the four different influences on items the awakener or the the the Eldritch exalted orbs um not Eldritch uh the conqueror exalted orbs and so I'm just hoping right like I mean they gotta have some sort of big banger for the next League that they're revealing no way next league is not going to be insane yeah right I think that's why this league is like feels so like nothing's there because I I don't want to be like insulting towards the devs if there was like a huge group working on this but it kind of feels like there was a very small team working on this on this league and they probably had like all the all the back end stuff for the passives already there and they were like all right let's just put it into like a into this but like it doesn't because you know it's like you're seeing the monsters they're kind of like re-skinned a bit the map that you go into it's like you could have had like one guy do that and it's even like closest bottle and stuff like from the forge monsters yeah like I really don't want to be like toxic towards them but like yeah it feels like they probably have like 99 of the team working on something else with this one I just hope they finally um they finally like put in the last step and remove like soft coined hardcore and just give us like ruthless full-time yeah actually it's like some more yeah I wish they would introduce uh like uh our HD real hardcore and I would die IRL when I died yeah yeah I prefer that exactly yeah glad we're on the same page like I'm not so sure about that like I personally think they're not gonna do [ __ ] until Poe too no they're gonna make them 22 I think they're gonna make it bomb because they know their eyes are on them for uh for Exile con I do believe that it's gonna be sick yeah it's gonna be crazy yeah it's gonna be it will make sense yeah Eldritch currency level thing I think I have another copium I think there might not even be a 3.22 but that we're not going to like 3.5 right that they're going to be like hey we told you guys beforehand we don't want to hold back all the quality of life features and new systems no no no way tp2 is at least like a year away end of the year right I think period is actually done because because they've said that they wanted pure2 to be playable by xl.com right soon and then we're gonna have it in December like I'm telling you it's kind of I think it has to be Christmas right like Christmas is it's gonna be this year they're not gonna push it out of like March or something right and that's not cope like it's it's it's soon man it's sooner than people I think so I think yeah it could even be next League dude but I highly doubt that no I don't I don't know the snakes they don't have enough time for him to test it because they actually do want to have a beta right so it has to be like sometimes after after Excel con but it wouldn't surprise me like if they just came out and said like yeah like the game's done yeah right that's why I think that it just feels like the last few leagues haven't been like like all there right we've I think we've all felt that like it's like something's missing it's like we know what they can do it just feels like we haven't been getting that lately I mean that was working 110 on uh I think that's what they [ __ ] up in arch nemesis right like they they try to do something with their B team that they shouldn't have right like rebalancing rares is like super intricate because it affects the whole game that was always my my thing I thought like they probably could have pulled it off but I don't think they thought about it enough for it like I think I think um that's what the whole arch nemesis stuff was about so yeah I totally believe that when you talk about arch nemesis you gotta you know it had like no quality of life it doesn't even have a search or like any functions right so it was super obscure also yeah completely like yeah but I think it's true was amazing though like I have to give him that one yeah I mean it was the atlas passive tree right it was amazing it was insane completely carried yeah so you think they're gonna bring like back um because you said a three League uh package they're gonna bring back a central ultimatum Sentinel ultimatum uh for Ben sanctum dude can you imagine I wish they would also bring back glasses that would be great I mean what if they would just let's go and make such a good alternate build your own dungeon system release everything at once you just like this is officially the last League before part of excel two you mean like Legacy snap everything do whatever you want just have fun you know and then you have like Legacy items Crucible trees Sentinels recombinators oh my God every Power spike in the game what if what if what if Legacy 2.0 like in 2.6 dude it's just like oh my God unnerfed items yeah give me legacyist dude Legacy 2.0 it just like get like Legacy chaos 1K live get like some Harvest like um what is it tailoring warps on it like you know increase Life on Top I don't know if we're gonna bring back the 1K life counts even though it wouldn't even be strong by today's no it was strong but in 2.6 it was strong but now it wouldn't be strong at all it would be like it would be decent yeah just give me shape shifting and Java song and I'm fine like honestly yeah I mean it's a highly speculative topic you know there's there's not really much we can say with certainty about Exile con but I do think it's safe to say that it's gonna be big I mean it's not just gonna be like a simple League there's gonna be they have gone and said that they're not doing any big end game expansions before Poe too right and so I I doubted something like conquerors where we get like big end game bosses and new Atlas systems but I do expect something that adds on to the entire game and then it ties things together and makes it all better yeah and I mean certainly recombinators need to come back next week for sure yeah in some shape or form like maybe not as itemized recombinators but maybe accessible through the leak mechanic on a crafting bench or something like that I feel like the power of like recombinators and some of the extremely powerful stuff we've seen right we talked about borrowed power and that it's kind of good that it's only borrowed because that makes it so they can go crazy on it but even on some of the more crazy rewards I feel like could be offset just by Rarity right if it's just something that doesn't happen all that often I'm sure there's always a problem that you know the people who are super rich can just buy up all the all the recombinators yeah I don't think I don't I don't know like I think recommenders could be back in the game they just have to remove stuff that makes impossible items I feel like like for example the triple Temple gloves or whatever right um and like suppression on non-invasion basis and stuff like that yeah like 12 link weapons [ __ ] like that like as long as they fix that I think they could actually introduce it back but then again they already have such a problem with bloat that I don't see why and they want to also add new stuff so it's just uh I would like mac but at the same time I understand why they don't the problem I think is like um with the way you can like enhance your items you were basically never satisfied with an item which is probably like a good thing in part of excel right but if I think like let's take this just a weapon you know okay what do I want to have on the web like nice fish rolls for example like bleed bow okay but then I know wait a second there is synthesize so if I get like a bleed faster synthesized weapon and craft on that like why would I waste my currency in a normal bowl if I could craft in a synthesized bow now we get one step further where you say like okay I need a synthesized bow with a perfect tree to then start crafting because everything before that feels like kind of wasted you know and now you have like more and more things and now if recombinators are back and I know wait a second I could technically get spell suppression on an armor base or on an energy Shield base for example and I know this exists I don't want to spend a single chaos crafting on anything on any non-fractured spell suppression Val regalia for example right so as long as you know there is something better out there you kind of like never happy with what you have that was the problem with synthesis right it was like week one nobody had a good base for any crafting right week two there was better bases like two stat bases but you knew that around next week people would have a better base right and a better base and a better base and it's like yeah that is a problem that is a problem with the trees as well like right now there's a lot of bows lying around with like three good mods but there's not enough bows to complete them uh so are you gonna mirror them because you can't really do the the tree after you already crafted because you need the imprints to get the tree done so do you wait for your mirror tier item or do you do it right now do you have like a scuff mirror tier item that's like outdated in a week it's like that's always a problem now it's like also the same with like what the cat Master said you have this like groups of Crafters even you know that say like okay we are there's like five or six of these groups that are usually crafting all these mirror tier items they have infinite currency like really hundreds of mirrors all they need is the right item and then they have somebody like remember last League when they had this like change of synthesized modifier and they bought off every single imprint beast in the entire game and if you as a normal player would say like hey I could imprint this before I throw my awake no orbs together you know and maybe be lucky you go on the market you see the cost of an imprint beast and you're like yeah like YOLO whatever same is like with um how often did you try to Heist and chant your weapon with like increased physical modifier speed modifiers and so on yeah I think 99 of players don't even know that this orb actually exists you know and um I once had this and I had like one guy that was like a bulk seller right and I literally bought like I think 50 of these like what is it tailoring orb or what's the other one or yeah yeah so I bought 50 of those for I think 300 divines you know and then every click you do is like seven divides off the like down the toilet right and you're like I don't want to click I don't want to click I don't want to click because what happens all these like mirror tier Crafters they buy every single tailoring orb they can find because they know hey I'm gonna need it in like three weeks anyways if somebody has like this crazy one bass synthesized with all the imprint beasts and like you kind of cannot like really enjoy that basically it's a normal player bit you know no it's kind of like sauce yeah that makes sense but I think there's a solution to that if it's not itemized you know the same way as it was with Harvest I think Harvest could have easily stayed in the game it was great for new players if they had just restricted it to the act right I mean now they couldn't do it anymore people would be super upset right but if it had remained like right after it went away and would have been reintroduced as a crafting mechanic for up to item level 68 or something like that you couldn't make the best items with it right and in the same way if they bring back recombinators as a crafting bench it could also be limited by item level based on the encounter that you did so it would allow people to to make their mid-tier items without them feeling that they can't invest it on their midia item because it's not worth it on the mid tier item and like they should sell it instead yep I think that was one of the biggest problems with Harvesters like that all the valuable crafts were not worth it to use by yourself on your media item medium item but you'd always just sell them on TFT I mean that's awesome that's also kind of why I think I really like having like trade systems where there's certain things that you can't trade for example like Expedition still the currency you can't trade anymore so you're still incentivized to actually do the vendors right um or like in sanctum where you actually wanted to farm your relics it's not just like okay I'm gonna Farm up 50 divides I'm going to buy a plus one uh sanctum Relic or whatever it's like no no you can have as much currency as you want buddy you can have 50 mirrors lying there but it's not worth as much as if you actually play the game and farm that yourself right um so that's kind of cool I think I think like a mix of that is really cool because then it's not like like you can have something that these Crafters don't have you can have a plus one power charge with like 12 Cold pen or something that they will never get they have no chance of Ever Getting but they really would like to have it right they can have like all the mirrors in the world it doesn't matter you have something special right which is pretty cool and this is what I hated so much about it I love this so much like yeah but then you have a relic with like the best example is like um stat stacking you have like one that's like two to five fire damage per 10 strands and you're like oh [ __ ] I have this cool red like I'm gonna make a build around it like how many of your of your followers and whatnot can actually replicate the build because they don't have the Relic on top of that what I really hate is if I'm grinding let's say Mage plot for example right I know a mage bot sound like 200 divides I know I can Farm up 200 divines and at some point I can get it you know even though it's expensive it is a lot of like farming involved and everything but I can get it at some point the problem with this like relics is I was playing the league like a complete month I was doing sanctum sanctum sanctum sanctum and all I was hoping for is like a plus one power charge Relic or a plus one frenzy charge Relic or like a stat stacking really never have I gotten one but you could also you could also play it the other way around it's like well that's not what they wanted you to do right they didn't want you to get that plus one Partridge they wanted you to say oh I got this deck stacking Relic now I can now have a lot of power for a deck stacker and then you roll a deck stack right so it's just the other way around basically you you were like I want this I deserve this but it's it's like no the game just gave you something else and you could have adapted right so you can also see it from the other other side I guess yeah like this Relic that I got with 17 increased stun threshold I see I mean it's gonna yeah that one for example yeah I had really like five relics where I said like plus one frenzy plus one power any kind of set staking I don't care if it's fire lightning if it's index I don't care give me something a relic that I could build around and after one month consistently doing sanctum I haven't gotten a single one until I decided for myself I don't want to do it anymore like my entire tree was like about um having more options at the vendors because the vendor could also sell you a Sanctified Relic right and almost like getting coins and double drops and whatnot and and I was after a month I was just frustrated so frustrated that I said like I'm not gonna touch this leak mechanic anymore because it pisses me off because this this this guy has what I want to have and I just cannot get it and this is like I can definitely see this like account bound thingy but I also hate it in a path of excel environment because somebody else is always going to find what you would like to have because yeah but but you can buy everything else in the game right it's just this one thing that's like special right and that's like but everything else you can still buy so it's like I don't know I think it mixes up things in interesting way and you probably got the Sanctified relics that you were talking about right no not at all for one that you didn't get a perfect sanctified Relic I wouldn't have made a build with it because nobody could have replicated it I had a movement speed Relic that I wore all league and I had a minor reservation Relic I swapped between those and I had one like Legion crib multi those were all the ones I used I'm not gonna use [ __ ] deck stacker and then somebody doesn't have that Relic if they do like half damage [ __ ] that [ __ ] you know what's even worse about it is like the leak doesn't go core and your build is literally dysfunctional in standard after it might standard you can wear it right you can still wear it wait the relics don't exist anymore right they're deleting it wait really are they still on the characters I think wait actually they were they were gone no I'm pretty sure they're just deleted them now no rip yeah so that's my reason I would have never made a deck stacker based on The Relic because I was like well it's just gonna fall apart and the build doesn't work anymore in standard but the best thing I think was actually getting keystones on the Relic this was like one of the best things and I still would love to have this one in the game because how often is it that you have like a character you're some kind of duelist you know and you would really like to have early overload but going there no way close you know maybe you want to play for example remember like Ci jokes you know like um these kind of like molten Strikers whatever like have fun being a Marauder specking all the way up to CI and the only current way that we have is like um there's one chest from Toyota right the skin of the Lords is like literally like the almost the only kind of way to get a keystone if it's not like on The Crucible tree you know but this option gave you like such a build variety because you could anoint a keystone that you wanted on a relic and I think this was actually a very very good adaption to the build easy solution your belt can now anoint the Keystone done you can use invocation with um Crucible trees not everything not not every Keystone is available on the trees sadly because I was like hey I'm playing bleed bow so what if I get Resolute technique on my bow that would be insane guess what there is a wrestle ever attacks yeah some some you can't get on certain item types yeah some you can get them casters some you can only get them but I got Mage pain so I did saves a lot of points to get spell suppression kept you know but or on my uh on my old taxi Rift I would like to have Ellie overload but Ellie overload doesn't exist on both so also interesting thing I found out is there's a weird thing where tags on so so for example right on rolling magma I really wanted the bow mod with reduced chaining range because reduced chaining range means that they bounce way faster which is way more overlaps for it but but since it also since it's a hybrid mod with arrows fork and additional time it's an attack tag so even though the reduced chaining range doesn't say anything about attack the whole mod doesn't work on spells and there's a few mods like that on the on the yeah that sucks in the other way it would be way harder to get a perfect tree if literally every node can be on every single item and then you get like not speaking sharp nail ballistic note on your Void Forge and you're like bro what the [ __ ] am I going to like it's just annoying it's annoying for classic bills in a way like you you have to go kind of dagger or want you can't really go though a lot of the time because you can't get that spell mod but yeah true yeah that reminds me something that I'd only noticed like a while in is that some of the combo notes that have an upside and a downside the the upside is actually Global whereas the downside is local and like yeah specifically the base crit and crit multi where crit multi is global the gang crit multi you lose bass grid but you don't care about the bass grid you don't care it's just on your web yeah those are huge yeah I didn't understand that in the beginning but now it's like uh I look at a lot of things a little bit differently but yeah we're already at the two hour 20 minute Mark I don't wanna uh also one thing I just want to mention oh yeah one thing I want to mention just for the for the boys is uh because people were surprised that um about the rolling magma build because I stacked three times the moderate that you can actually roll it on helmet the pedb doesn't show all the mods that can roll on helmet just FYI there's mods that you can roll on helmet but it doesn't say there your name yeah the fire the fireball model isn't there for example yeah but one thing since I watched your video you said that these key Stones since you were running like three times the magma AOE one right on your weapon on your shield and on your helmet but you said these mods were multiplicative with it because you said in your video like 700 more AOE you know and you say like okay I have those I have like this 100 more AOE mod three tabs and I'm like bro it's 300 no 700 what the [ __ ] no it's like it's crazy you're like it's multiplicative and I'm like what the [ __ ] why would that be more duplicative it doesn't make sense what else can you do what is multiplicative and breaks the game completely there are a few mods I mean yeah I can yeah we can talk about it but there's a few things like that but otherwise it would say double right like there's a difference whether it says 100 more or double right if it says double that static it doesn't stack but 100 more and another 100 more is always multiplicative if that makes sense it's like you know how yeah yeah sure you know how double damage is different than a hundred percent uh than like 100 more damage right you can only get double damage to 100 but the more damage you can stack in stack and stack yeah it's basically but yeah yeah tuna just uh posted this in our group chat to show the bow or maybe that was already a while ago I am oh that's the is that the Evo yeah plus one Dex gems minus three base grip but 100 Global crit multi 20 reduced area effect but 60 increased error of effect if you killed at least five enemies recently so it's always up when you are farming and then you don't really care about reduced AOE when you're single targeting and level 10 fists to lightning support damn dude that looks really good only for modernity imagine cool stuff yeah but your your boat is two percent crit it looks kind of sad but yeah it's it's crazy it's insane it's 100 Global multi it's like okay so the ball just has like 100 how much is the expression okay 135 multi on a bow it's like hmm okay synthesis explode you know you up for uh bow spark with uh the new stat stick bow with like a quiver with 80 broad speed just get like 350 price speed are you ready yeah I mean I'm sick actually oh yeah we do hail and then you can get like uh because on 200 you can get uh skill effect duration and stuff yeah and on that bow you can also get the crit multi mod with minus and [ __ ] like that yep I know it's like cheesy but I kind of want to play Bose they're so good this league yeah it's disgusting like Vengeance Cascade you could make some really cool like uh like uh both character yeah yeah uh there's all this funky stuff though so like it feels kind of bad but um I mean I already did like no soul game prevention molten strike they threw the league with tainted packs yeah yeah well I don't know is there like did you do it with the hate Forge or well no no I didn't know like but it was like basically like the duration is good enough to just clear a whole map walking around just clicking the button so yeah because I had like the helmet the shield and the weapon yeah pretty good like but it's multi-strike sucks I don't know people are already hyping it but they I don't know I don't like it either I literally just put on like lightning strike and I felt like I did more damage and I cleared like a screen away dude lightning strike I mean I played I at least started lightning strike last league and I don't understand why people say it's dead it was already good last League even without benjinkus kid yeah it's pretty good that's literally the fact that you can't hit single targets twice anymore with like both the the hit and no you're still you can you still can wasn't there like some sort of bug no what do you mean no the bug that they fixed was that you can hit three times yeah yeah but that was like two times instead of three basically well you hit three no we've been doing so we're back right it's like yeah no but like the third hit like you would never get that it was very circumstantial like if so it was like if the target was moving uh away from you or some [ __ ] like that then it would happen once in a while where you'd hit for three times but essentially um I think lightning strike is just good now because you can you can actually leak start it and you can grab the strike the attack wheel yeah yeah and get additional projectile which is what you were kind of missing and if you end up getting like the two projectiles on helmet you're already like at six broads right you're talking Pathfinder poison lightning strike with the yeah I mean you can you can play it as like Raider right technically like you just play it Raider LED lightning Striker it's just gonna be good but I think um French Cascade definitely put it over the edge and Adventure Cascade is going to be gone next League like we all know it but the thing about it I wonder if I actually know that because like they they seem to signal that they know what they're doing before the league with engine Cascade it kind of felt like they knew what they were doing and they still put it out so it kind of feels weird if they now Nerf it knowing what they put out so I I don't get it was it like intentional or because it's so obvious broken [ __ ] for a league maybe maybe I don't know because it was still time like because it's like a 100 more damage than the wind right like yeah it makes no sense that but it makes no sense that they make it at all right yeah but they already like they nerfed everything on about nemis right like with Fireball with um KB interaction with creeping Frost with costing arrow and then they're like yo but here's Vengeance kid make no sense also if they intended that to be there only for a league as something to play with they could have just easily made that a crucible passive right they didn't need to implement the different road on the actual tree that's accessible to everyone yeah but I think it is better this way because how much do you have to invest to get Venture kiss Kate it's like two golden oils and and or like let's say like whatever 50 chaos yeah so everybody can Farm it and everybody has it besides if you would say like this is a tier 5 Crucible note then how many people are gonna have it probably the one presenters with a lot of currency because the [ __ ] costs like 20 device to start things off and nobody ever will be able to replicate it and benches Cascade is so strong and it's available on the tree and you don't have to do anything just like you could literally sell a cell phone it's almost self-farm it with blight for example right yeah so I think it's it's not bad but what I'm thinking is like I think bows are in a really good state right now like with Ventures Cascade even more than before honestly and What's Left Behind is Melly because I leak started melee and yeah I feel like yeah melee is good if you put a lot of currency into it but early stages it kind of like completely gets [ __ ] on by almost everything in the game and I'm wondering okay now they give both builds or projectile builds basically uh Benji Cascade what are they gonna give merely to bring that back because people are like asking for melee boxes quite a while they're hoping for those kind of like Melee Buffs yeah since like four or five leaks or something I think the last League where merely actually got buffed was I think allegiantly with like the cyclone and whatnot where you say like oh [ __ ] dude this is crazy good you know with like impale and those kind of things and nowadays I mean if you invest like good cars like 100 device or something in the mail it build it it's still like it's really [ __ ] good but below that like a melee built for like six seven divines or something you know you're standing in front of the monster you need like a lot more defense but therefore you have a lot less damage and it's like less clear and the big more clunky to play until I just get like lightning arrow with like Adventure Cascade I said range I just shoot my arrows and people like Brazilian damage and you're like okay let's loot you know and you're like it is you know what's funny though like going back to Avengers kid like I just realized when you said that is Venture gasket isn't actually that crazy for already established builds I kind of feel like maybe they knew that because think about it this way the only skill the only bow skill that sucks with vendor Cascade is tornado shot it doesn't even work yeah yeah it does but well not like you would want it to right it's crazy to think maybe they're actually gonna Nerf tornado shot at the end of the league and Vengeance kid because like think about it this way lightning Arrow just got double damage and double clear basically and it's still inferior to the NATO shot like an end and end game same with ice shot and all of these other skills Venom gyre doesn't profit from it is still really really good right um that is great so so it's like what the [ __ ] is like so far away from from these other skills like lightning Arrow needs that much help to be on the same page it's actually just crazy so one single Target issue right yeah it's a single Target issue and it's still but it's still a single Target issue even after giving it double damage that just makes you think right that's crazy yeah I mean Tony shot is just mechanically insane but I I honestly think that like like if you if you give me the option now is I would rather play like I shot over tornado shot personally because of really yeah absolutely a bazillion times in the past five years because it's also like it there are skills that are technically really good and you know they're good but you just played them so often just say like I'd rather play something off matter that was like not that good but nah it's just it's just straight up like the clear is just better like um you should get like a lot of projectile speed on it and like you get like the helmet in China it's just it's just way better like because TS is like you gotta realize that it's still like uh projectiles I have no AOE components so once they hit a Target they either chain and once they chain then they just disappear right whereas like something like I shot you hit a pack and then one one Arrow will like hit half that back right yeah because it explodes behind yeah yeah and same same with like lining Arrow so for like clearing it's just so it just feels so much better to use like lining arrow and and the eyeshadow now and because of engine Cascade now the the single Target is also good so it's just yeah I would just I don't know like I'm I'm torn on it because the bills that I see like the turnership builds I see are just like they don't have enough projectile speed to actually yeah like 500 projectile speed for it to be amazing like that's the thing about like Aisha as well that like you don't need that projectile speed to make it as good but you still want a ton of projectile speed but like yeah but the thing is it's not really cost on the new shot because you have the Mastery so it's not like like you want the the now that the plus one Arrow uh synthesized on quiver is gone you want the 30 project of speed anyways right you want the 50 projectile speed from Essence in suffix anyways because it's 50 increase damage as well right there's like so many like double like you can get 200 project pretty easily and the 200 it feels already pretty good uh you go anomalous blood and Sand which is almost free right so it's like yeah I don't know like I feel like if you take all those steps to only shot is still just like what I guess what I like about tornado shot more than I shot and lightning euro is you don't have to aim anywhere whereas with lightning arrow and eyeshadow you have to vaguely aim somewhere right with the leadership you can aim next to you and it's still with enough projector speed still kills everything um anymore like because Avengers like that [ __ ] goes everywhere man once again maybe I'm wrong I haven't played it yet maybe I'm wrong and they come back does lightning Arrow have a Celestial transmog like MTX not that's true so yeah you know everything the good skills have Celestial transmog it is what it is you know transmog though just go automate on Herald effect and you don't see it anyways doesn't matter true true all right yeah any any specific builds you got your eyes on that you want to try out that you can disclose without messing the market up for you and be extreme maybe like tuna already said what he's excited about so I thought that would be a good closing round well honestly as of right now I'm really want to get this bleed bow going and honestly I think it for me personally I don't want to abuse any Crucible trees you know I'm obviously going to make a nice bleed bow with a crucible tree and added physical damage what not but I kind of know that reign of arrows right now is definitely better than like split Arrow just because The Crucible modifying and all this like scaling and whatnot right but I I kind of feel like I want to make a build that does all content and with the current things with The Crucible tree I think I get enough Bleak damage that I can actually do like uber boss with it it's not like anything special I just want to get one decent character tanky fast good damage where I can tackle on challenges and then later on go for like this super fancy because the way I think is like if I get the Lipo character going right now I can maintain this build for the next league and so on maybe League start because I I tried out the Snipes support gym right you get this like very early and the leaks start like the leveling phase was a breeze it was so freaking good because usually snipers only accessible through a Salem in endgame right but if you if you throw in a Salem with puncture you like literally one shot every single map like campaign boss you know act nine you just charge this thing up boss spawns soup you release the arrow is sorrow like the lap you know every sorrow face is literally a one shot and it feels so [ __ ] good so I really see bleedball being like very competitive as a league starter and they're really having a lot of fun with it so nothing actually too crazy going on but I'm gonna keep that for the later Parts like where we really go full out on any like fancy Crucible tree and try something that is probably only existing this league and uh yeah but for now like good old bleed bow really nice I'm actually curious about beatbo because I'm I'm yeah it's sad that that hasn't been a thing really for so long Forge there looks nuts too that [ __ ] is like crazy actually what about you pal what are you what are you excited about I can't share my next build but uh I can say it it will have Vengeance kid surprise foreign and it's not going to be a cookie cutter build as well and who of you guys is finally gonna make it happen to make conversion trap playable like somebody has to do it man you can do it it's fine there's no Crucible support for conversion trap like brexit that specifically before the league started right in response to your Tweet tuna yeah there's one that could be reasonably that was one for every skill that could be reasonably used as a main skill so there's none for conversion trip she said which is kind of a cell dude there's also there's also no lightning warp mod that's a that's a burned in yeah because it's a movement skill and I think oh Shield charge has one dude yeah dude I was just gonna say here charge Dash has a more trigger socketed spell everything is going to build around that dude and make my charge Dash build but like a chain hook Rampage build sounds fun as well doesn't it like what is it like a thousand percent increase attack speed on chain hook it's like no it's not every wait it's two pretend right and you can get a thousand Rampage is that where it caps so you can get uh 200 right something like that but it would be fun probably gonna be it's gonna be bad but just get the Rampage mod as well just get the chain hook Rampage mod and Rampage on on the same weapon run easy peasy end on the helmet and you just go to your wield easy imagine like 800 chain hook attack speed it's gonna be worse than the solid just go Shield charging Knight with like like that build always struggled with getting a text because it doesn't increase your ignite damage just go like that mod just solves it all you're just super fast make dual strike uh Soul Eater work that's cool wait it does what do you mean yeah but I mean make it I'll make it work yeah yeah that'd be cool yeah it's gonna be a lot of like fun Builders pulsory said before like the later the league goes on the more crazy boats come up you know and if like when it was just like exploding totem coming up it wasn't a leak starter thing like literally like I don't know like three four days somebody's like oh it's not Hillary right poison artillery like I I actually pure bead poison I'll tell you before the league started but I was like no shot it's gonna be easy to get I can't leak start with this right it's gonna be made and then I realize it's so [ __ ] common and it's just such a good leak starter it's correct yeah but then they come up with like exploded totems which is like what the [ __ ] so we're just like week two of the league right so now we're hitting week three so who knows what build comes up like next week so um yeah it's gonna be interesting if we're gonna like discover something crazy or somebody else is gonna discover something but things gonna happen you know maybe like some mono stacking since there's like some mono stacking extra cold damage Arc mod and somebody's like oh let's take Monitor and see what happens you know like I generally think you'll see some crazy Mana Forge stuff coming up like people have already done that with the Prismatic attribute stacking stuff but the multipliers on that [ __ ] is broken as long as like you figure out like the balance between you know like getting it to trigger consistently without it feeling like [ __ ] then it's gonna be insane and also spending enough Mana because you know how it is with Mana builds you've done a shitload of those mbx so it's always a pain in the ass but once you get it working it's like really strong the most annoying part is that so much support is like on hero now with Arcane search and it's like spell based and cast speed and stuff like that but you can get around that with like Wilma stuff theoretically yeah like I I don't want to spoil anything but you like you can do I mean yeah people already know you can do some sick [ __ ] for sure yeah search feels like [ __ ] though wait search trade well no like having lost surgeon like literally everything oh sorry except for Hyrule yeah oh yeah yeah that's true yeah I mean to be fair I've heard from people that the it's actually a buff for League starters because like the cast speed makes the skill feels feel a lot better more damage early is like meaningless it's just also an increased yeah also without like clusters and stuff you don't have that much Caspian on the tree so it's actually like a more multiplayer quote unquote yeah exactly yeah like Caspian is like super super strong I really yeah for sure I like the change actually I think like most people said they like the change I actually would have tried like I think ball lighting I would love to try like monostacker ball lighting for like League starter for next League Maybe will be pretty cool yeah don't want to play this league because it's a crucible support for ball lightning is non-existent yeah I'm just gonna play vanilla right yeah no I definitely wanna agree with the car speed feeling super good early like I said I started animation it would have been awful if uh if you played as necro but with um in the guardian you get the guaranteed Onslaught if you have five nearby allies so it feels okay right I use that and I use my divine blessing haste and a flask with suffix cast speed in the beginning of the map to wind up my 16 weapons that I got not quite there yet to get the level 25 for the 17 weapons but yeah I would have killed myself already and brought a new build if I had to cast that without the Perma onslaught you know what's funny what I just remembered I I looked up some custom credit Builds on pure ninja and there's people who still run Arcane surge synthesis rings on cast on crit because they don't know that they changed look at this so if you're one of those and you you hear this you've been called out classic all right this has been a continuous thing how do I say weapon wrong like what what am I doing like this has been put up in the past it's the same guy but like everyone says I'm saying rep and wrong what am I saying wrong okay yeah I mean we got no native speakers on the panel yeah it's weapon weapon weapon it's weapon what do you mean weapon exactly I'm weeping uh the weapon yeah you know I hate when people actually say um an avocado you know it's an avocado yeah it's a it's an event everybody everybody knows that I can't I'll get your weapon and you slice up the avocado would make a knife that's with my dad your major [Laughter] right so uh yeah I was gonna do like a little segment where people ask questions from chat but uh it doesn't seem like there has been a whole lot of questions there's a one that was about the blood Notch immutable Force interaction I don't know is there a lot to say about that I know there's a video by Captain Lance about it yeah the the I think it was first made by a void which is also content creator so dude in my chat he's a he's a pretty smart guy and um it's pretty op basically you're just like yeah you're just regening a ton of life with progenesis or um or uh petrified Blood Plus that Jewel and you basically immune to everything but one shots but what people don't realize by the way which I just did on my castle crit is immutable force is actually like stun Immunity on stuff like Cyclone even it's like you can't feel the difference with 900 or 1000 stunning stun block recovery versus being sudden immune you literally can't feel the difference the only skills where you feel a difference is stuff that you actually have to charge to fall like um what's called [ __ ] Divine IR or something you see that you get like you get back to to one charge and stuff like that right but on everything else you will not feel a difference not at all so for one Jewel socket you can be stun immune on most builds just even outside of that combo right just FYI just two more jewels to put in the tree that I already need right yeah no it doesn't it does stop the channel of cyclone for like I don't know you wouldn't even recognize it like I tried it out on on PVP and the proc rate is still exactly the same on Cyclone at least now I don't know I haven't tried it with I only tried it on my 5K live character I'm talking about a normal character right but you literally don't get you don't get It's like because custom crit builds always struggle especially assassins and stuff always struggle getting um stun Immunity on Cyclone but now you don't have to struggle anymore you just go one Jewel and you're fun yeah that's so awful that they removed the stun immunity from Cyclone yep they also removed it like it was on the tree on the cluster between Shadow and witch there was a the tolerance it's called now I don't know where they had the same name but you literally had poison avoidance bleed avoidance and stun avoidance there in the same place and now the stun avoidance is not there anymore it was so easy for me to get stuck well you have that immunity there you have that cluster now but it's now like um next to Ranger there's there's a new cluster with stun block recovery red yeah but yeah you wouldn't want to take that anyways you just take flask or if killed recently on boots if you want to but I think the jewel is really really good for like most builds yeah well it only targets like um let's say top skill tree builds because I was like hey I could put this in my on my dual list for example right but then you're like okay where is the First Energy Shield Mastery there is only like very far top side so there's it's not accessible for like two illustrations well yeah no but what I wanted to say is um if you use a beautiful voice just for stun immunity you don't even need that node is what I mean you know women but yeah like the the stun the stun Tech yeah it's a little bit weird um also you still get one shot as low especially if you go petrified blood you will still get one shot but if you can get project if you're Pathfinder and you can just go progenesis for the last 40 with flask effect then it's completely broken it's like insane you don't even have to go you're still full life you don't have to reserve petrified blood then it's completely insane yeah yeah well I guess we've addressed addressed everything else that's come up and we did talk a little bit about item drop balances not too much to say there I guess um and you guys have been going strong for the past two and a half hours so I wouldn't want to keep you here any longer unless you feel something that you still want to bring up but otherwise I think this is a great time to round things off I want to thank you all for coming onto the podcast it was a pleasure to discuss and uh you also did great making up for balor's obvious lack of sleep shout outs to Valor Mage probably there what the [ __ ] what what the [ __ ] no I received a message from Bella in the meantime I mean he's he's up he was just too shy to join late because he was like well don't want to be there for just the last 10 20 minutes right but um that was two hours ago no hard feelings there's literally one League where lightning air was actually good and Baylor isn't here that's crazy yeah but fair enough right so guys make sure that you support these awesome creators go to their their videos click the videos click the likes click the comments go throw them twitch subscriptions and all of that um I heard you guys have also been picked up by an orc independently from one another where uh you guys are posting some pogbuild guides and stuff maybe people can find that on the internet uh it's it's called Max role I believe and uh yeah there's probably going to be a lot of content coming there from you so looking forward to that uh yeah was great to have you on once again um for the people who want to follow the podcast you can obviously subscribe to be notified when the next one comes out there's always faded.fyi slash next that's a web short link that will forward you to the countdown to the next episode and I will update it right after this one currently it forwards to the countdown for this episode and then of course the next episode is already planned it's going to be 3 P.M on Wednesday uh that is the Wednesday the 26th of April and we're going to be joined by zizerin and Karen and maybe also some other people we'll see and until then I hope you have a wonderful rest of your league I hope you get like some great stuff done with the knowledge that you may or may not have gained from this podcast it motivates you to continues and uh yeah I try to make it as creepy as possible it's like Slender man dude well it's called Frightmare from from the YouTube audio library guys check it out awesome guy Jimena Contreras anyway until the next time man thanks for having us bye

Channel: CatmasterOP

Views: 24,670

Keywords: path of exile 2, ultimatum, gameplay, trailer, review, ascendancy, assassin, atlas, archer, arc, witch, best, class, 3.13, crafting, crackling lance, duelist, deadeye, delve, divine ire, delirium, ziggyd, path of exile, echoes of the atlas, endgame, elementalist, explained, ps4, flicker strike, fun builds, final boss, farming, gameplay pc, guide 2021, gameplay 2021, heist, highlights, harvest, hydrosphere, patch, 3.21.0c, 3.21.0b, poe, poe builds, poe 2, poe league starter, path of exile crucible, poe crucible

Id: ksONK3rHDWk

Length: 170min 10sec (10210 seconds)

Published: Sat Apr 22 2023