Biblical Unitarianism - A Hijacked Religion - Kent Ross and J. Dan Gill

[Music] can Wow we have here one of the things that I guess we kind of want to ask you a little bit about we we often hear the term the word Unitarian and sometimes we hear the word biblical attached to that of biblical Unitarian from your work in theology and from your work in church history give us a picture what are we talking about when we're talking about biblical Unitarianism well do you want to talk about just biblical Unitarianism or Unitarianism and universalism which is where many people get things confusing for you well unitarian universalism is the first thing i think we don't get across because the unitary had a good start it was it was a attempt to break away from Trinitarian language and we find that in what george Hunstanton williams referred to as the radical Reformation that there were those who who felt luther didn't go quite far enough though at times he himself was thought to be maybe suspicious of the Trinity and in fact we find many of those in the Reformation that struggled with the Trinitarian concept although they never went away from it completely and then we had for instance john calvin who became so strongly in support of the trinity that he would resort to the violence of seeing that service was killed Wow no I heard a panel just recently that left about surveyed is's death but to think that this was and in fact I believed to be instituted through the magistrates by John Calvin seems to me to be an indictment of Calvin Wow but the Unitarianism was a very frightening concept because it was thought to be heresy well of course what is Harris frightening to the Orthodox fuzzy to the nicely because that was the way it had always been as they assumed but when we say the heresy it's a good question as to which ones are Harris heresy is it fact that Jesus is God truth well not according to the scripture so the one who says that Jesus is God may be indicted in fact that's the heretic not the one who says that God is one which is what Unitarian said God is one now the problem with that is that over time especially as it came to America but also as it was in England we had this universalism that crept in with unitarianism okay and so the unitarianism got away from its biblical roots and blended with humanism until they were very hard to separate and soon universalism or humanism toleration became the key word and Unitarian as a theological concept while it was still there became almost a non theological just waned and it just waned yeah in fact we have the opportunity quite a few years ago of traveling with a Unitarian Universalist tour group to Unitarian sites over in Romania especially but they were also in Poland and it was very curious to me because as we sat down and I think I've told you this story before but we sat down the first day we gathered and we gathered from all over the place we were having come from Georgia from California and I'm not sure where else but we gathered in Budapest and we were in the hotel at this told the break up into groups and introduced ourselves and so my wife and I were together there and introduced ourselves to the lady that was sitting with us and she said to us she said I'm the president of our Unitarian Universalist Society she said of course I'm an eighth and suddenly I began to appreciate the fact that she felt like she could be unitarian universalist without being a believer in God who was the basis for a Unitarian belief yes so became very confusing and and later on as we travel through the countryside and visited Unitarian sites there was nothing universalism about it except what had been drawn from humanism and now placed upon the Unitarian sites Wow but they had nothing to various historic so the various history nothing about universalism involved in those early you never was no I never was isn't that it so Ken when we're talking about unitarian universalism sometimes referred to as you use yeah even by themselves I thought that today is what someone in the public might most be familiar with when they hear the word Unitarian they think Universalist Universalist Unitarian but universalism was not actually part of parcel of original unitarianism knows it no no journalism was a whole different story ultimately a whole different picture because we could go go back and you need to go back to so scientists and and well priestly even later on show this identification with a one God and and so that that's something we've discussed earlier but the now when you say Unitarianism people today automatically put that with universalism and think of themselves well they really don't believe in much of anything which is maybe a fair charge may not be but my point is that that is not what Unitarianism originally meant was all about yeah that's not what it was about well in fact we were privileged to go and attend the 200th anniversary of Joseph Priestley and it was a No Unitarian well he was she was now I wouldn't call him part of the same understanding but but he had similar beliefs sure and and the man who again coined the term the radical Reformation one of the premier historians of church history George Hunstanton Williams is is the one who invited myself and Anthony buzzer knew who was familiar to come up to this 200th anniversary celebration so we traveled up to Pennsylvania and met in the little chapel there with all of the priestly descendants and they filled the little church where we were well as soon as we walked in George Hunstanton Williams who was sitting on the front pew saws and immediately asked us that we were on an really uninvited guests to come and be part of the program because he said you really are the descendants of what priestly believe his own family have gone away from this and become Trinitarians Wow but he said you are the descendants of what this man believed so there is a segment of unitarianism that is not Unitarian Universalism and that needs to be it's very important that there's a distinction made because bless their hearts Unitarian Universalists don't believe in the blood of Jesus atonement don't believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of the Living God in fact going back to this tour when we were over in Romania the the leader of the tour he was a Unitarian Universalist of course but he also was sympathetic to our understanding of biblical Unitarianism you use that and we'll come to that later but he asked me he said he said Kent he said why don't you stand up I here in the bus while we're traveling we were going from point to point and he gave me the microphone and he said explain a little bit what you mean by Unitarian well of course I I stood up began to try and explain what I believe it's a biblical picture of what Unitarian me and said what I believe that then put Jesus in the plan of God and there was amazingly blank looks because these people had no idea of the biblical part of Unitarianism Wow well can't am I right then ensign when we're talking about the word Unitarian we need to understand what is being member that because in the early days of the Reformation Lutheran a Calvin days and so on and during that era there were those faithful Bible believing people who though in a minority certainly questioned this concept this teaching of God called Trinity they it didn't make sense to them it didn't seem biblical to them and and they questioned it and it began to take a stand and as a way of expressing their view that God is only one individual about two or three one individual and that Jesus Christ is his truly begotten human son they used or the term the Unitarian was used regarding them as in opposition to the Trinitarian they had nothing to do with universalism at that point so then later on them the notion of universalism came along which says that everyone eventually will universally be safe and on I D I think but even even that concept of being saved would be not understood oh god I understood I say okay but that this didn't the universalism and that as we're talking about it really didn't get going well until one into the 1800s until we come to the America especially yeah because the radical Reformation I mentioned that George Winston Williams coined that phrase for us there was of course the Lutheran which was the first break with the Catholic Church then there was also a Calvin's break there was also than the breaking in England there was also the Catholic counter-reformation but he always represented the radical Reformation sometimes just called the Baptist's but that was that was not a very clear term and and he tried to define that within there's the spiritual icers the Anabaptist themselves and then what was called the evangelical rationalist and the evangelical rationalists he loved the Italian anti Trinitarians who moved up into Romania who moved up to Poland and in Poland we find a strong Center in Cracow where there was an actual Unitarian University wrong that was eventually destroyed when a king who came in who did not show the toleration there's that word again toleration which the Trinitarians denied to the Unitarians well okay we cannot tolerate this because the deviation in that theology caused the shaking of society hmm and we have what is called the Magisterial Reformation which is where the magistrates worked in conjunction with the Church theology ministers but they work together to maintain a stable society but those who broke away from that we're seen as disturbing Society and if we're especially at that point if we're going to break from the Catholic Church we can't have these little side things breaking things up we've got to stand together and we ended up trying to destroy those not tolerate them who deviated from what we felt was correct so not only was the Catholic Church then down on these these poor Unitarian folks but even other Protestants also were exacting a total against felt they had to I felt they had to it's interesting someone was characterized somewhat unfairly that Catholics burned them Protestants drowned them yes but in either case there was executors this is terrible yeah and in reality when you take a look at it from a unbiased I think scriptural standpoint those Unitarian folks were really onto something weren't they well yes I think they were but they were also even at that time good citizens yes so it's it's I think fair to say then that the Unitarians from early Reformation days and forward were good Christian Bible believing very devout very sincere folks who were were looking at this understanding of God being one rather than two or three felt very strongly about that felt that Jesus was his truly begotten human son born of a virgin but the Bible isn't that amazing it and the universalism thing that kind of got going in the eighteen hundreds which was long after them it would it be unfair to say that they they kind of hijacked that religion what when we took the universe at the Unitarian perspective and that is equal point that's a good way to put it they hijacked I don't know that they intentionally did that I don't know that they understood what they were doing but it did take away from the concept of biblical Unitarian that's why when when we began to feel the need to to make ourselves known we were very careful about trying to decide how to express that well what what do we want to be called now many of us have gone by the title Church of God but who were we as a body well we were Unitarians but we avoided that term for a long time because of the Universalist money as a Association it's universally a different issue there yeah and so we finally came up with a term that we generally now hold to a biblical Unitarian essay because our Unitarianism while we are tolerant of others it is based on what the Bible says it's not a humanistic thing it's a biblical thing and it's very solidly biblical although many would declare it heretical yeah they can't get away from that respect it's perhaps another time then we can discuss the ramifications there that came out of the Reformation itself well because the Reformation was not one but five distinct movements uh-huh that would be interesting that is good the one comment this universalism thing I said I also have a little anecdote to share my wife and I were traveling in South Carolina Charleston beautiful city and it just happened while we were there that they were having festival days or anyway that many of the old buildings in Charleston were open and you could walk in and visit and they would typically be someone there to to welcome you not to tell you about anyway so that we noticed that there was a Universalist Unitarian Church there well we'd never been inside a Universalist Unitarian building or anything else in our life but anyway so we moved sound goats that we went and were met by two two ladies who welcomed us to the church so we we began to talk delightful ladies very Verte and wasn't much like I'm sure it was the case in your yes your trip in Europe no I'm the bus but anyway these these very nice lights we had talked to us about their church and its history and the building and so on and I began to realize as we were looking around just by looking at the building and looking at the windows and different things that church originally which went way back was a true Unitarian biblical unitarian church very biblical based in the beginning even New England in New England that was true - yeah way back way back but now this universalism influenced this now we have the you use as it were gonna tear in Universalist their Universalist Unitarian and the ladies have began to talk to them about and I said well have you are you aware of biblical Unitarians and there were some what would that be and I said well that's people who believe that God is only one and I said but are very biblically based and it's all about the Bible is all about Scriptures and what Jesus said and what the Apostles said in someone from that perspective and they they just looked at it's very puzzled had never heard of that said so it seems like a biblical Unitarian would be a noxee to them doesn't work it says it what do you mean they have been an extended so I think it really true Unitarianism was a rather hijacked as it were and nowadays the word Unitarian has been colored by the universalism connection and that's what's important yeah that when we speak of our Unitarianism it is with that phrase biblical unitary Wow because we don't deviate from the Bible right we hold the Bible in very high honor that it is God's word that Jesus his son died for our sins we don't have any quarrel with that but we insist on the Bible and not humanism and then when we're talking about things from that biblical perspective we run into that question that you were raising in an earlier discussion that the notions of God is multiple multiples of anything is really not a scriptural concept and even many who would indicate a Trinitarian we've got acknowledged that it's not truly a Bible concept so actually the the true Unitarians the biblical Unitarians both of the Reformation and now are a I think unique and wonderful people more dedicated to the Bible perhaps than most folks might be out here yes and and I think that when people come to truly understand what we're seeing because oftentimes I can't hear what we're saying for what they're thinking huh yes because if you're not for instance a Trinitarian you must be out there you must be a haircut ever automatic say that's right but we're not trying to say that we're just not Trinitarians were Unitarians but it is exactly based on the Bible and we would stand and discuss Bible with any of them as long as we can use biblical language it's when we get into non biblical terms it's when we get into what the council said it's when we get into what the church told us we believed yes that we say no let's go back and see what the Vice they would must say and when we get back to the Bible we find that God is one there's something - what he said I love it and that's of course the homonymous right and here o Israel the Lord their God the Lord is one always has been one and that's wise will be yeah that's why Trinitarian Christianity has such a difficult time doing any evangelistic work with Jews or for that matter Islamic peoples huh yes because both the Jews and even Islam believe that God is one one individual is three yeah Unitarian as you and I would use it today we're thinking in terms of something that is acted very biblical very scriptural advised and an understanding that relates to the teachings of Jesus the teachings of Paul the teaching of the other parts of the teachers of all the prophets of old but that's not all that's the we use that term Unitarian today most people don't hear what we're saying but they lump it in with the Unitarian Universalist heinousness which is a totally different concept from what you and I understand Unitarianism to mean we insist that Unitarianism needs to be coupled with the term biblical well thank you so much I you know what I think of in these perspectives I'm rather proud to be able to say I'm in that tradition of one God believers one God Bible believers who who took their stand even in the early days of the Reformation that's right and even now here we are still saying this understanding of God as one is wonderful all right thank you so much indeed that so we can do this I've enjoyed it a lot and we surely will

Channel: 21st Century Reformation

Views: 3,130

Rating: 4.9402986 out of 5

Keywords: J. Dan Gill, Kent Ross, Church of God General Conference, COGGC, Atlanta Bible College, COGCAST, Joe Martin, Monotarian, Reformation, 21st Century Reformation, Anthony Buzzard, Restoration Fellowship, Joel Hemphill, The Hemphills, Sean Finnegan, Christian Monotheism, Kermit Zarley

Id: hfdusNazVy8

Length: 22min 52sec (1372 seconds)

Published: Sun Dec 30 2018