- Without having been said, a lot of people think that they
need the latest and greatest laptop that's out there to be a hacker. - I think what's so great
about the world today? There's so much free stuff
out there, or low cost stuff. The barriers to entry are lowered. - What's the perfect hack
laptop to use for hacking. You know, you and I get this question
all the time and so let's, let's try to address this and
in that way people can get a better idea of what they should
be purchasing to start their career in cyber security. (upbeat music) - When I read stuff like this,
it makes me really worry. The UK is secretly testing
a controversial web snooping tool. Congress just voted to let
internet providers sell your browsing history. VPN providers flee India. They are pulling their physical
servers from the country as a mandate to collect customer
data goes into effect. There is massive
surveillance in Australia. It makes me really worry about
the level of snooping and data collection that
governments are implementing. If you worried about privacy, you probably want to get
a VPN, based on books that I've read such as this, How to Hack Like a Ghost,
written by a hacker or Extreme Privacy written
by a privacy advocate. Based on the interviews
that I've had with hackers, with privacy experts, with
OSINT experts and the like, I have come to the conclusion
that the VPN provider that I can recommend is ProtonVPN. This is a VPN provider
that I actually use. It's based in Switzerland. I think that's a great thing. Their software is open source. If you wanna enhance your security, I would recommend ProtonVPN
and I really want to thank them for sponsoring this video. Hey everyone. David Bombal back with Occupy the Web, Welcome, Occupy the Web. - Thanks David. It's always good to be back on your show and talking to you about
hacking and IT issues. - It's great to have you back. Just for everyone who hasn't
watched our previous videos, we've done quite a few,
I've put a playlist below, Occupy the Web is the author of this book, Fantastic book if you wanna
learn Linux from a hackers perspective, he's also got
this book Getting Started, Becoming a Master Hacker,
both fantastic books. Go have a look at the reviews on Amazon. You'll see that people
really like the books. So Occupy the Web. What are we gonna be talking about today? We're not gonna be continuing a Mr. Robot series in this video. What are we gonna be talking about today? - Well we're gonna try
to answer a question that both you and I get very, very often, which is what's the perfect
hack laptop to use for hacking? You know, you and I get this question
all the time and so let's, let's try to address this and, and that way people can get
a better idea of what they should be purchasing to
start their career in cyber security. - Now, Occupy the Web, I've got a whole bunch of questions here, but before we get into sort
of my list of questions, do you want to like
start the conversation? - Yeah, I've got a few
comments that I want people to keep in mind in terms of trying to buy
a laptop for cybersecurity hacking, and the first comment I wanna
make is that hacking is 80% the human and 20% the machine, right? So don't focus so much on the
machine as much as the skill knowledge that is required
to be a good hacker. With that, having been said, a lot of people think that they
need the latest and greatest laptop that's out there to be a hacker. It's not like a gamer machine. Gamer machines are very
demanding and they need to be the latest and greatest and have
the best graphics cards and the most memory and what have you as hackers. We don't require that. Our applications are generally
relatively small and simple, and so you don't need the
latest and greatest machine. What I would tell people as a
starting point is that if you can't afford the newest and best machine, go out and buy yourself, you
know, a five year old machine. That's if you can buy for
half price and get started. It's more important to get
started than it is to wait for the perfect machine because
really what you need to do is to develop your knowledge and skills, right? That's 80% and only 20% is the machine. A older system that will cost
you maybe a third of what a brand new system will cost you
will build your skill set and do almost as well as a brand
new state of the art machine. Remember once again, you know, we're running Linux and Linux
is relatively lightweight and the scripts that we're running
and the tools that we're using are not demanding. So let's try to get away from
the idea that I need to go out and spend an exorbitant amount
of money for a biggest in best machine, right? What you need is a machine
that's more important in developing your skills. So let's focus on that. Now, having said that, let's talk a little bit about
what you need in that machine. So the CPU, the brain of
the machine, the intel, the AMD, is really not
that critical for hacking, it's important, you know, it does, this does what it has to do. We're running your machine, but the speed of it is not that important, the faster those CPUs are, the more expensive they are
and it's an exponential curve, you know, the faster, So just to get a little bit more speed, you have to pay twice as much, right? But you can easily use a system
that's just a few years old and not quite as fast and a lot
cheaper and get just as much performance. And the CPU is really not
that critical to most hacking applications except password
cracking CPUs are not ideal for password cracking, right? You're, you're much better off using
say a GPU or using a GPU farm or using a cloud server
unless there's a really small, simple password. So, you know, even though the CPU is
used for password cracking, say cracking wifi passwords or, or going ahead and trying to
crack some hashes that you've gotten from another system, if it's a complex password at all, your CPU is just not an
efficient way of doing it. So investing a lot of
money in a CPU, okay? The fastest and best CPU
is not a good investment. It's not a good investment. A better investment is to take
that money and use it to buy a GPU or rent a GPU or rent a
cloud service that can really crank out hashes really, really fast. I seldom, if ever use my
CPU to crack passwords. And I also should point out
that my go to machine for penetration testing and hacking
is probably four or five years old, it's not brand
new, it's been around a while. I like it. I use it every day. And so that kind of, I wanted to reemphasize that
point that you don't need the latest and greatest, okay? What you need, you need is a system. You need a good system. If I could emphasize a few
aspects of that machine, it would be that I would
emphasize RAM because you need to oftentimes run multiple processes, multiple applications simultaneously. And I sometimes I'm running
multiple VM and so the more RAM I have, the less problems
I'm going to have. Things are gonna run smoother. Now, how much is enough RAM? Well, you know, a bigger minimum is probably
gonna be four gigs, right? I run 32 gigs, okay? And so four gigs, I think
is a bare minimum, 32,64, you know, if you're a pro,
but that's expensive, right? That's expensive. So if you're gonna put
your money someplace, I would put it into RAM. Then of course you're gonna need, if you want have any idea
of doing some wifi hacking, which lots of people like to do. I mean, that's a real, one of the most popular
activities of newcomers to hacking is to hack the wifi, right? Well, you're gonna need to invest
a little bit of money into a good wifi adapter. And you know, there's a, almost all of the wifi cracking
tools at their heart are using aircrack. Yeah, we have lots of different tools, but they're all using largely
aircrack at their heart. And aircrack has what's called
a compatibility list on their website. If you go to aircrack ng.com, you go to their compatibility list, but they list the compatible
adapters by chip set. And most people don't know the
chip set that's in their wifi adapter. So if you don't know that
tried and true is go with an alpha. - Do you have a special, a
specific one that you like? - Well, I mean, I've
got several that I have, and once again, password cracking is, is not one of those that
is a function of speed. The important part for password
cracking is getting the hash, and that's not a function of speed. You could be using an old
adapter and it'll work just as fast as a brand new adapter
because it has nothing to do with the speed of transmission, right? Very little there actually
does make a small amount of difference, right? I would say go out and, you
know, if you're on a budget, buy a used one, you can buy 'em on eBay. Other places don't, don't go out and buy
the latest and greatest. I have several of the latest and greatest, and quite frankly, they don't work that much better
than my old ones that I've had for 10 years. If you're on a budget, go to eBay or other place where
you can buy used equipment and look for an old alpha and
that'll do the job for you. And I've got some even cheaper
ones that I have purchased over the years and tested 'em out and, and they work out pretty well. - I'm glad you said this because, sorry, I just wanted to say
this before we continue. I really, I'm really glad that you
emphasize this because you see it in any domain just being on YouTube, you can see it with YouTubers
who spend fortunes on equipment and then you get
someone who's a really great YouTuber and all they have
is a phone or an old camera. The tool doesn't make you better. It
- Exactly. - It's the person who
determines the quality or the, you know, the output, not just the tool. So I'm really glad that
you emphasized that, sorry, I didn't wanna interrupt you. - Hacking's 80% the
person, 20% the machine. So let's focus on the
person and not the machine. And the other question I get
a lot also is that, well, if I'm gonna be a hacker, I've gotta go out and buy all
those toys, you know, I mean, I've got, I've gotta have all those toys
I see in the YouTube videos, you know, like, no, you don't
need all those toys, right? You can do a really good job
and be very proficient without all those toys, and I refer to
'em as toys, I mean the wifi, pineapple and airgeddon. - Like rubber ducky, that kind of stuff. - Rubber Ducky. That's what I was thinking of. Thank you. - Yeah,
- Yeah. You don't need all those things. I mean, if you're just
starting out, right, you don't need those things
and you can do almost all of those things that you can
accomplish the same thing without those toys, but it's a little
bit more time consuming, maybe a little harder, but you'll, you'll have learned a lot by
going ahead and trying to do the same thing without all the toys. And certainly, I mean, I had a young person come
to me the other day and say, you know, I've got a good laptop, but I can't afford to buy all
the rubber ducky and the wifi pineapple and you don't need those things. But they have been left with
this impression that they can't be a hacker without those things. Those things are nice and
Hack five makes 'em, and, you know, and I've done a
number of tutorials and, and classes on SDR. And SDR is a lot of fun
and it's very important area of hacking, but one, most of what we
do, or just to get started, you can start with a
very inexpensive RTL SDR which costs like $30 or you
can buy 'em used for even less than that, you know,
once you get proficient, then you can go and move up
to the hack RF or some of the other more expensive SDR devices. But really what I am want to
emphasize here is that it's more important to invest in
yourself in developing the skills and the knowledge
than it is in the hardware. The hardware is is only an
extension of the hacker behind them, so get yourself a machine, get started and start
developing your skills. And don't worry. So much about the
hardware that's involved, although there are some essentials, right? I mean we do need, you do need a laptop, you do need a wifi compatible adapter, an aircrack compatible adapter. If you're gonna crack the wifi, you do need a enough RAM maybe
to run some virtual machines to get started, okay? You don't even need that. But to get started, you wanna be hacking
in a safe environment. And virtual machines are a good, safe environment for
you to hone your skills. And the more RAM you have, the, the more virtual machines you can run. - That gets to one of my questions is, and I'm sorry to if you were going for it, but it's bare metal versus
virtual machines and you kind of mentioned virtual machines, so I'm assuming for a
beginner you would recommend, correct me if I'm wrong, like a virtual machine is
the way to start, right? - Yeah, I think the best way for a
beginner to start is through virtual machines. That way, you know, you're, you're self enclosed. You don't have to be
dependent upon the, you know, a website, what have you. You've got your, you got a target, okay? You've got your attack machine, everything's internally enclosed. You don't have to worry about
having an internet connection and you can practice all your
skills all day long as much as you want, okay? Even with the internet down
on your virtual machine. So that's the way to start. Now that's maybe not the way that is, is the best way once you
become a professional. But once you're starting out, those virtual machines
are really the way to go. - So you start like a Kali
Linux or something and a virtual machine and then like a device
that you're gonna attack. You build your own little
like network on your Windows laptop or something. And that's how you
practice initially, right? - Yeah, exactly. So with either a virtual
box or VMware's workstation, and I have both of 'em, I use both of 'em. I prefer VMware's workstation. I think it's a little bit more stable. It doesn't crap out as much. It's networking is easier to
work with and more stable, but it is more expensive. I mean, once again, if we're thinking about trying
to build this on a budget, virtual box is free and
it works pretty darn good. Okay? I've been using it for years
and it's gotten a lot better, right? It's gotten a lot, used to be much quirkier than it is now, but it works pretty darn good. So if you're on a budget, go free virtual box and
then Kali of course is free. And then you can go ahead and
download any number of virtual targets that you can work with. You know, if you even have
an extra copy of Windows, you can build yourself
a virtual windows and, and try attacking your
Windows 10 or Windows seven or Windows 11 system in a virtual
environment where you don't have to worry about any
possibilities of breaking any laws or sending malicious packets
over the web that might, you know, might in different countries
is going to be illegal. Keep it enclosed, keep it self contained. And I think that's a really
good environment to start practicing and developing those skills. And you can do that with a
relatively inexpensive system. - So I'm gonna put you on the spot. Just push back. I'm gonna ask, I've got, Yeah, I'm gonna ask all the questions. I like to say that people are
either too ashamed to ask or too scared to ask or too
embarrassed to ask or whatever, but I get a lot of these questions, I'm sure you get them as well. So do I need a Windows laptop? Linux laptop or Mac or doesn't it matter? - Well, if you're
running virtual machines, it doesn't really matter. So if you're running virtual
machines, your host system, okay, the, the physical system that you're
running on doesn't matter if it's a Mac, if it's a
Windows or Linux system, because you're all gonna have these, these virtual machines inside
of that operating system. So I would say doesn't matter. - I will say this just,
I'm sure this will be, will be commented below
with the M ones and M twos, it gets a lot more complicated. I dunno if you've used them, but I have them and it
becomes a nightmare. So I would personally say
rather get an Intel or something else because there's issues
running VMs on a M one, M two at the moment. Cause you have to use on, you can't use like all the
Intel X 86 stuff on, on M ones, M twos. - I didn't know that, I don't run Mac. So that's why. - Yeah, so I'm actually, I've got. - A lot of my students do and
they've never expressed to me any problems, but I don't run Mac at all, so I run Windows and I run Linux. So. - Yeah, so you run Linux natively, I'm assuming that's when
you're doing a attack, like proper stuff and then
you run Windows for like demos and like teaching stuff, right? - Yeah, exactly. Yep. - Yeah, that's great. I mean I'll, sorry, go on. - Well thanks for putting that out there. I didn't know that
there was a problem with the M ones and M twos. - In my experience. And this is just my opinion. So, you know, please
comment below anyone who's, who's found it otherwise, but the only way that you can
get it to work kind of is like you can use something called UTM which is like a free QU emulator
if you wanna run X 86 on Mac one M twos, if you
use a VMware Fusion, which is like virtual, sorry, which is like VMware
workstation player or pro, you need to use Intel and
Parallels allows you to virtualize as well, but you stuck with
arm so you can't use Intel. Sorry, you can't use X
86 or 64, X 64 on M one, M two very easily. You have to emulate that and
it's doesn't work very well. So yeah, my recommendation would be, I don't think M ones M twos are there yet. So I would avoid a Mac if you
want to do a lot of VM stuff. 'Cause a lot of the VMs
that you can download from, you know, different places
you're gonna be wanting to run X 86 or oh 64, sorry, go on. - Yes. So that new M one, M two is the one that Apple
has built based upon the arm architecture? - That's right, yeah.
- Yeah. And that makes sense, okay. - Yeah. So you can get Kali, one version of Kali, but a lot of people have said that either, even though you can get it
to run and it runs fine, some of the apps still don't
work as well because some of the apps weren't written
originally for Arm. - My recommendation if we
get that part is that one, as a pen tester, hackers,
you don't run Apple. But that's a different
story versus creating a, a testing environment. - [David] Like a lab, right? - I would, I strongly recommend because the Apple operating system is, is proprietary, okay. And it's opaque. There are certain applications
that require access to the operating system that simply
don't work well in an Apple environment. - Some people will say the
same about Windows, right? - Oh, I would definitely
say that about Windows. - So in other words, what you're saying is you're
gonna go bare metal for Linux? Yeah, for like real
deployments and stuff, right? - If you wanna make sure that
all of your Kali applications work as they should, it should either be Linux bare
metal or Linux in a virtual machine. But you can't run, I don't
think you can run all, I know you can't run all the
applications in an Apple or a Windows environment and have them work. And the last thing you want as
a hacker is to not understand why something doesn't work. And it might just be
your operating system. So you know, you're going through and
things aren't working, things aren't working and
you're trying to diagnose why they're not working. You don't want to add
the complexity that it's, the operating system
won't let you do that. I strongly recommend using any
other operating system other than Linux. Okay. For hacking and pen testing. Although I have seen people
running Mac's in pen testing environments and I always
scratch my head when I see that it's like, you know, that's,
I don't recommend it. I've never seen a Windows, I never seen Windows in a
pen testing environment. I have seen Mac's and I don't
recommend either one of 'em. It has to be a Linux environment
if you want to make certain that your application are
gonna work as they're designed. - So give me, just summarize,
if I understand correctly, you would run Linux in a VM for, for labs and Linux bare
metal for real deployment, right? Or would you. - Yes, that's my recommendation. Yeah, that's my recommendation
is that you run Kali, and different versions of Kali. It doesn't matter, which in my opinion, doesn't
matter which one you use, there's gonna be different
strengths and weaknesses that are different versions
of Kali, you know, the, the latest Kali isn't
necessarily the best Kali, right? Some of the older Kallies
have features that work even better than the new Kallies do, right? And you can go all the way
back to the old backtracks and they had features that in some
cases work better than the new Kallies. But yeah, for a pen testing
environment hacking, run it bare metal for training purposes, you can run Kali in a
virtual machine and hone your skills there before you go
out into the real world. - I like what you said
though, you know, if you've, I think if you've got a Mac
ready for whatever reason, then you can build a lab and it works. I find it works fine on Intel
even though I have had issues sometimes with networking
with VMware on Mac Intel. - We all have problems with, with networking no matter
what the platform is, right? - Yeah. And then, but I really
like the suggestion, you know, you can start. So if you've got a, if you've got a Mac or
if you've got a Windows, then you can start if
you haven't got a laptop. I love what you said about
like just buy something. It's not the hardware that's important, it's you as a person. But let's address some of
the questions 'cuz I know, we'll I'll get this all
the time and you know, we are older so I mean I'm not
so into the flaming war type stuff. It's like Carly Parrot versus
some other flavor of Linux. 'Cuz some people are really
adamant that you have to use a certain flavor of Linux to be a hacker. - I would not agree with that. I would say that either, either one of 'em are excellent tools. Okay. And they have different strengths. I'm not a flamer, either one of those.
- Yeah, exactly. - And I would say, you know,
choose one or both, you know, I have both of them and
I find that, you know, sometimes I'm using Parrot
and sometimes I'm using Kali in my classes, I always use
Kali just to be consistent. But yeah, the people who are, you know, screaming at each other over
which ones a better platform don't have, have too much time on their
hands and not enough things, other things to worry about. - Yeah, it's exact right. I mean I often say use the
tool that's right for you 'cuz people have different tastes,
so you use what works. So I'm glad you you've addressed that. So you use both, You use, I've seen you use Kali in all
your demos and that's just to be consistent. It's not because it's better, right? - I wouldn't say it's better. I'd say it's just to be consistent. And I do use, I'm gonna put a plug in
for Dragon OS, which is a, a new operating system for
doing SDR, which is really, really good. I think it's the best operating
system for running SDR for hacking and excellent tool. I can't remember, remember the fellow's
name who put it together, but he's done an excellent job. You got all the tools in one
place and they all work well rather than having to
constantly download and, and find the dependencies. So it's Dragon OS and
great operating system. So I use that after having gone
through a number using Kali for SDR and using Parrot for
SDR and a number of other specifically designed
operating systems for SDR. I've settled on Dragon OS, so. - No, that's great. I mean we covered that
actually in another video, so I'll put that below where we, where we did some SDR stuff
and you showed Dragon, so that was great. Now I think the, the moral of the story is if
you know Linux you can jump from one to the other, right? - Exactly, I mean, they're all Linux. I mean, both Parrot and and
Kali are both Debbie and Linux, right? So if you know Linux and
another plug for knowing Linux, right? If you know Linux, yep. If you know Linux, this, you know, it's, it's kind of a foundational
skill, you know, and you can take it, you
can take it to a Ubuntu you can take it to Red Hat, you can take it to any of
those operating systems, but you gotta know Linux first. And you know, there's so much, you know, one of the hottest areas
of hacking right now is IOT hacking, hacking the internet of things, which simply means all the
devices that are now digitally connected in the world, including refrigerators and
baby monitors and garage door openers and what have you. But all of those devices have
small Linux kernels in them. They're all being run on Linux. And so if you wanna be
able to hack those things, which is kind of the
leading edge of hacking, then you need to know your Linux, right? Because when you get inside,
you're gonna find Linux. - So let's summarize
RAM minimum of four gig. But I like what you said, don't spend lots of money
trying to get the best CPU, rather save money and
use that to buy more RAM. - I would agree. Yeah. In other words, you know, don't go out and spend all
your money on the latest CPU because that's not that important. Take that money and put it
towards RAM on the system. - You don't need a GPU in your laptop. It doesn't need to be some
fancy gaming laptop because you're gonna use the cloud or
some other device to do the cracking using the GPU anyway, right? - I would say so, I mean, you know, a GPU's are much faster at
password cracking, hash cracking, but even at that, unless you
have a really high end GPU it's not going, it's not ideal to crack
passwords on your own GPU, right? There's lots of better
ways to be able to do it. And one of 'em is simply to
go out and send it out to the cloud and have a massive
machine be able to crack those hashes, which can do it
much faster than you can. - And I mean, it's so cheap these days to, to rent the GPUs anyway. So you might as well use the cloud. Another question, desktop or laptop? If I had to choose. - Well, if I'm moving into a
pen testing as a professional environment, I usually want to have
everything on my own machine. I wanna be able to
bring it with me, right? So that pretty much argues
for a laptop and that's what I do, I mean, when I go into
a pen testing environment, I bring my laptop, everything's
there and ready to go. I can't imagine hauling around a desktop, but for a training environment,
you know, desktop is great. That having been said, I know people do hacking
pen testing on phones, but in all honesty, I
don't know how, I mean, I, I understand that some
people, that's their, you know, that's a limit
to what they can spend, but it's pretty darn
hard to really do much. Hacking on a phone one is
not powerful enough and it is pretty hard to run multiple
applications on the phone simultaneously. But if it's all you have and
it's a way for you to learn, then great, you know, go for the phone. But if you can afford
to get a used laptop, take that one step up
and get a used laptop, I think you're gonna be much
more effective in a used laptop than a trying to hack from a phone. - I'm glad you said that
because I think depending, you know, who's watching this, but I think a lot of the
audience in certain parts of the world, they don't necessarily
have the money for a, for a laptop, but they might
have a phone with them. So I've had this question recently, can I start learning Linux? Can I start learning hacking
if I don't have a laptop? Can I use a phone or the cloud? What can I do? I mean, you've kind of alluded to the
fact that I can do some stuff with a phone, but it's limited, right? - Yes. I would say that, you know, if you're at that point where
you're just learning the basics, I think of phone is a good, is if it's all the option
that you have, you know, use the phone. But you know, I know that in some parts of the world, phones are the only option. And so I'm saying yeah, those Android devices, okay,
and even the the Apple, but unlikely, it's unlikely to be an
Apple in those countries. Android is a version of Linux, right? So you can do all your
Linux stuff on your phone, you can learn Linux on your phone. Can you actually do your hacking? Well the answer is yes, but it's not very practical. If that's all you have, go for it. Right? If that's all you have, I'm
not gonna say you can't do it. I'm saying it's not really
practical, but I know that, you know, some people, you
know, you can buy phones for 20, 30, $40 and that's what people are using. And if that's all you have, let anybody tell you you can't do it. But it's just gonna be harder. - Funny, when you're talking about that. Yeah, I've got a pine phone
and I'll link a video below, I'll show you how to crack
a wifi password using a pine phone. Pine phone basically runs Linux. But yeah, I agree with you. it's kind of hard. It's nice but it's, it's lost resort I would say. And I agree with you, you can, you can root a Android
and, but it's, yeah, laptop's just so much more powerful. - Even the smallest, cheapest one is gonna be much
more effective than a phone. So. - What about a raspberry pi? Sorry, if you wanted say one first. - No, I like the raspberry pi. Raspberry PI is, is an effective tool I
think that you can run, you can run Kali on it or you
can just run the PI operating system and download the tools onto it. I find it to be a good, a good and effective hacking environment. So I would recommend that as
long as of course you have a television set right to
act as a monitor, right? And you, you know, you can get, even if you're talking
about old pi's, you know, you can buy old pi's for
20 and 30 bucks, you know, the new ones are more expensive, but the old pi's will do the
job and it's a good learning environment and I think it's, it can actually be used as an
effective hacking environment. It's just maybe not as
portable as you would like. - I think what's nice
about the newest pi's is the wifi card supports
monitoring and injection mode. So I'll put a video below where
I'll show you how to do that with a pi.
- Okay? - It's nice that you don't have
to buy an external adapter, but it's slow. It's a small little computer. It's a, you know, if it's
all you got, it's great, but it's slow compared to a laptop run. - Yeah. But if you, you know, it's costs a, a fraction of what a laptop costs. So I've been there, I know what that's like to have, you know, that's all that you can afford.
- Yeah. - And you know, so I'm not saying that
you've gotta go out and have, you know, spend thousands of
dollars on a laptop, you know, if you can put together 50 bucks, right? You can go out and get yourself
a PI and connect it to your TV set and, you know, start learning what you need
to know in terms of Linux and Kali and get yourself and hone
your skills until you know you can go out and spend more
money on something better. - I think what's so great
about the world today, there's so much free stuff
out there or low cost stuff. The barriers to entry of are
lowered and there's so many options when it comes
to devices like the pi, stuff like that. And I mean, like you said, like don't try and buy the
latest gaming rig or laptop. There's a lot of older laptops
that you get on eBay and places that can get you started. - Right, I agree. And you know, if I were to have to choose
between a PI and a phone, I would choose the pi. The PI is a, is a more effective device than
trying to hack from a phone. And you can get them for
approximately the same price. You know, maybe just a little bit more
for the PI than the phone. But still it's, you are gonna be much happier
working with a PI than you are with trying to hack with a phone. I would find hacking
with a phone to be very, very frustrating. - And I think, I mean,
we need to make a point. Again, Linux can run
on really old machines, like crazy old machines. So I mean if the goal is to
learn Linux and learn the tools, then there's nothing
stopping you, like you said, getting an older laptop if
that's all you can get and install Linux on it and
you know, start learning. - Exactly. You know, there's Linux is much more
forgiving than Windows or Mac is and it can run really
well on older systems. So don't let the hardware become
a barrier to get started in hacking penetration testing. Go out and get yourself a cheap
used laptop and get started. - That's great, Occupy the web. Are there any closing thoughts
or anything else you wanna add before you wrap up? - No, I just wanna repeat that, you know, in hacking 80% is the
human, 20% is the machine, don't allow, you know, anybody to tell you that you
need the latest and greatest machine to become an effective hacker. You can be an effective and
great hacker with an old machine, with, you know,
one of the older CPUs. Put Kali on it and away you
go and you can do anything, almost everything and
anything that even the, the latest and greatest machines
can do for a fraction of the cost. - Love it, thanks so much for sharing. - Thanks David. (upbeat music)
