Speaker Kevin McCarthy muscled a bill through the House to raise the debt ceiling and impose $4.8 trillion in spending cuts over the next decade. Republicans see it as an opening salvo in talks with Democrats, but the president says he will not negotiate over paying the nation's bills. Here with me now is Senator Bernie Sanders, chairman of the Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee. Good morning, Senator. Thank you so much for joining me. And let's start on that sweeping GOP bill to raise the debt ceiling. People might not realize it, but you have successfully cut several bipartisan deals during your time in Congress. So what do you think needs to happen to get there now? On this debt limit fight? Well, what Donald, what needs to happen are two things. First of all, everybody in Congress has got to understand the United States of America cannot default on its debt. And by the way, a lot of that debt was accumulated under the Trump administration. You pay your bills or else there will be cataclysmic economic problems in the United States and around the world. Massive unemployment and a major recession. Number two, the president is right. What we need is a clean debt ceiling bill. You pay your bills and then you can sit down and negotiate. What a sensible budget is. What the Republicans are saying in their budget proposal is that at a time of massive income and wealth inequality, when the richest people are becoming much richer while working class people are struggling. What they want to do is to cut programs for nutrition, for education, and for health care, throw hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people off the health care they need. Our health care system today. Is this functional enough? It is expensive. To beat up, you know, throw people off of health care. You don't hold those people hostage to. Yeah. Forgive me. Is it now time for President Biden? To start negotiating on where the confines are for any spending cuts Well, I think we can start negotiating tomorrow. But you cannot be holding the American people or the world's economy hostage. What the Republicans have got to say is absolutely we are going to make sure that we pay our debt. Let's sit down and negotiate a budget. It is true that House Republicans, their bill is only a bill that passed their their House and it would avoid a debt and a default excuse me this summer. Speaker McCarthy is already hammering Senate Democrats for insisting on a clean debt ceiling increase. And so that has been the sort of conversation, frankly, the parties talking past each other a bit. Just on the Raw Politics of this. Are you worried that voters will start to blame Democrats? Let me just say this. Let me just say this does what Donald Trump wanted when he was president. That's what he got. That's what Ronald Reagan wanted when he was president. That's what he got. You don't hold the country and the world's economy hostage over the debt ceiling. You pay your bills. This country now. And what we're trying to do on our committee is address the severe problems facing the working class in this country. And what I would hope the Republicans understand, there's something wrong with a health care system where we spend twice as much per capita on health care as the people of any other country. Let's deal with that. Not throw people off of health care. Let's lower the cost of prescription drugs. Do they have the guts to take on the pharmaceutical industry? Let's raise the minimum wage in this country to a living wage. Let's make it easier for workers to join unions. Let's protect senior citizens by making sure we can expand Social Security and, by the way, demand that the wealthiest people in this country start paying their fair. Are you open to any spending cuts as part of the ultimate budget deal? Yeah. I mean, I think we can move toward cutting military spending without spending ten times more than the people are than any other country on Earth. Massive cost overruns in the Pentagon. I'm certainly open to open to demanding that the largest corporations in this country, in the wealthiest people start paying their fair share of taxes. And I'm willing to look at any other proposals. There's a lot of waste within government. Let's go after it. But don't go to war against the working class. Of this country. Lower income people don't tell kids that they can't afford to go to college or cut back on public education in America. We have already too much inequality in America. Let's not make it worse. You mentioned the high cost of prescription drugs. You just cut a bipartisan deal with Republican Senator Bill Cassidy on a plan to help lower prescription drug prices by increasing access to generic drugs, increasing transparency for pharmacy management. Your your committee is going to consider this bill this week. Are you confident that this will get the 60 votes needed to pass the U.S. Senate I think that it will. But we will say, look, let's be clear. We pay by far the highest prices in the world for prescription drugs. In some cases, ten times more than the people of any other country. Pharmaceutical industry spends billions of dollars over a period of time. A campaign contribute actions on lobbying. They are very powerful. So I would say to my Republican colleagues and some Democrats, do you have the guts to finally stand up to the pharmaceutical industry and make sure that all of our people can get the medicine that they need and not have a situation where one out of four Americans, a one out of four, can't afford the medicine that doctors prescribe? Now, by the way, this bill, to my mind, is only a start. The following week, we're going to bring the major three of the major CEOs of the pharmaceutical industry into the committee. And we are going to ask them, among other things, why is the price of insulin for diabetics so high? They've lowered it. I want to make sure as a result of public pressure, they lowered insulin costs. I want to make sure that, in fact, translates into lower prices for ordinary people who need it. And I want to see substantially lower prescription drug prices across the board. Cancer drugs out there, lifesaving drugs cost over $100,000. Who can afford that? Senator, President Biden announced his campaign officially for reelection this week. He would be 86 years old by the end of his second term. You're one year older than President Biden. Is his age something that voters should consider in 2024 Well, I think when you look at a candidate you consider a lot. I think age is one thing. I think experience is another thing. I think your record that you have established is another thing. But to my mind, Donna, when you put it all together, what you have to look at is what does the candidate stand for? Which side are they on? Are they on the side of the billionaire class or are they on the side of working people? Look, it is no great secret. I ran against Biden. No great secret that he and I have strong differences of opinion. But when we live in a nation where you have a major political party, the Republican Party, we have many, not all, but many of their leadership doesn't even believe in democracy. They maintain the myth that Trump won the last election. They're trying to keep people from voting. They're trying to deny women the right to control their own bodies. So that's a whole issue out there. If you believe in democracy, you want to see more people vote not fewer people vote. I think the choice is pretty clear and the choice is Biden. And second of all, what I do believe is the Democrats and the president have got to be stronger on working class issues. They've got to make it clear that we believe in a government that represents all, not just the few. Take on the greed of the insurance companies, the drug companies Wall Street, all the big money and trust and start delivering for working class people. You do that. I think Biden is going to win in a landslide. Senator Bernie Sanders, thank you so much for joining me this morning. Thank you.
