Ben Hancock | The Meaning Crisis, Depression, and The Book of Mormon

there's a meaning crisis going on in the world today the Book of Mormon is probably the most powerful conduit for personal revelation that I've ever found like masculinity and femininity are meant to be together and so if one of them is having a crisis the other one's going to have a crisis I know the god that gave the power to Moses to split the Red Sea answered my prayer this whole thing is how is the book of moment answering the question of our time of the crisis of meaning and for me the most profound answer I've ever received was in The Book of Mormon every day it permeated my soul it got it made me get up in the morning and think I want to do something that [Music] matters hey mate welcome back to the Stick of J that's a really bad British accent I don't know Ben's going to laugh at that well we already started so we're going to keep it these one tick wonders are me we're excited to have Ben Hancock on the program today if you guys don't know who Ben Hancock is he runs a YouTube channel called for all the saints he's a British Latter-Day Saint and that accounts for the terrible British accent that Jackson tried to doed um but what what did you like about this episode why do people need to stick around and listen to the whole thing I loved it because personally in TBH here uh some might be shocked by this I'm kind of with the geography stuff I think it's super interesting I love learning about it I prefer much more getting into the principles and the actual verses of the scriptures that can be applied to our lives to improve our proximity with God in Jesus Christ and we kind of go through a lot of the questions of the soul I guess if you will and we go talk about some hot topics it was awesome and he actually used some verses in a way to explain principles that I had never seen before and it was so cool to get in the scriptures like that so what we recommend is if you can pop out your scriptures follow along and we're going to have a good conversation thank you for watching and enjoy the interview cool well today we have Big Ben coming from the land of Big Ben right anded he coincidentally isn't super fond of London he he prefers uh middle the boonies midb yeah I I well I don't prefer middlesbor middlesburo is not very nice either sorry I preer the Rolling Hills the Rolling Hill not the bustling CI the the Farms the the countryside you know the good old life that's what we fought for in Britain you know well I didn't fight but we may have to one day I don't uh yeah have you ever seen the holiday oh yeah yeah so you're you're like that that that little car literally that house is probably very similar to to my house except I'm not as Rich to have it detached it's like can my wife and your wife like can we swap like you guys come and stay at our place next year we'll go stay at your place let's do it I I love the architecture here I wherever I visit I always love driving around the neighborhoods and seeing what it's like the lack of architecture there's no way you like the cookie cutter freaking there no there is it's it's midcentury modern you know you look at the Provo Temple it's so unique and they're ripping it down I'm sad about that but uh the the architecture here is magnificent it's stunning okay you should be proud of that is a hot take that I've never don't go west of the freeway that's what I'm telling you yeah we're going to cut that part don't go to Bluff oh Bluffdale yeah that's a cutter that's a c cutter place but no thank you both for having me what you're doing is brilliant it's uh it's obviously resonating as well which I'm super happy about the book of Mormon's amazing and uh it's desperately needed so yeah we love the Book of Mormon and what you're doing too is really cool especially I I think you're the only not not the only because we we we talked to stevenh Murphy who he runs Mormonism in the murf so he's he's over on the other side of the pond as well um but you're you're definitely like one of the big voices over there and I I think it's I think it's really awesome what you're doing before we get into today's subject tell us a little bit about your story for th for those who don't know so the the podcast that you run is called for All Saints correct for all the saints the Saints oh yeah okay cool uh good hymn classic uh tell us about it yeah well we were discussing in church in in Europe like podcasting really work during covid and I've been working podcasting for years and uh we wanted to continue that but sort of strengthen people's Faith bring refreshing conversations and so uh I sort of I teamed up with the morg good foundation who uh have been absolutely fantastic and uh We've created this uh podcast for all the saints just interviewing people you know your focus is on the book of [ __ ] you do it in such a like a great downto Earth way that really translates and uh that's so needed and what I'm doing is kind of like bringing people on who you know our last episode was about the new himm book for example and just like why it's happening just these things to keep you updated but also to maybe give you a a new understanding of stuff and a fresh perspective yeah it's all positive uh very faith-promoting I I have no intention of trying to like deal with dodgy topics you know I just I just want to it's a hard World anyway I want to get people more open about and we need that that's awesome that's that's super cool what who's been some of your favorite guests that you've had on uh so recently I had Spencer McBride on who is a historian who wrote Joseph Smith for president and uh would I loved learning about his presidential campaign why that was needed what we can learn from it today uh what his policies were um and that got a that got a good response uh and yeah I loved that episode in particular because I'm quite interested in political history uh but there's so many I I they're like children you know I love how all of them they're all unique and individual and how long have you been doing it thus far it it launched in September but we were planning it for quite a while uh and yeah it's out now every Monday that's awesome okay well you guys are going to have to check that out but today we're going to talk about a really cool subject it was your idea actually I really I loved the idea when I when Jackson told me it but we're going to go through some of life's biggest questions right oh yeah and we're going to use none other than the Book of Mormon to answer those yeah because I think if what Joseph Smith says and is what what is outlined in the introduction of the Book of Mormon that no any man uh uh can basically read the principles found in the Book of Mormon and come closer to God than by any other book and I think that with life's unique challenges everything in here can be applied to those unique challenges and so yeah we we kind of want to go through with you and uh I I understand you've prepared a couple scriptures that will will help us to understand how to maneuver these interesting challenges that we have in our life through the Book of Mormon I'm so jetlagged and so I thought I can't rely on recall to bring up these specific references that I wanted to share so I I've got a yeah I've got all that I'm glad I'm glad okay man what's a what's the first question that we're trying to answer why don't we go so there's a there's a meaning crisis going on in the world today I think especially with the young but also I mean the highest rate of suicides that happen in the world are like the 50-year-old men category which I found quite surprising interesting yeah and I feel like that's men who have probably been in a routine for a long time and perhaps are having that meaning crisis of like where are my I may have lost my purpose similarly we talk about young boys a lot and how young boys are having a crisis of masculinity and meaning but actually the trends are showing that yes that is happening but what's overtaking them is young girls interesting uh and you know what do you mean by that what's overtaking them uh so we talk about young boys and how like men AR aren't being talked about and uh men are called toxic and all of this and yeah that's true and we should look after them and we should have those conversations but in the midst of that you have these young girls who uh are growing up and they're experiencing anxiety and depression at a higher rate uh they've lost their identity as much as we struggle to Define masculinity they're struggling to Define femininity as as much you know yeah cuz I think it's all a jumbled mess it's all jumbled mess and I think you can't you don't misunderstand one without misunderstanding the like one doesn't Suffer Without the other one suffering because they're they're the yin and yang right like masculinity and femininity are meant to be together and so if one of them is having a crisis the other one's going to have a crisis and it's going to manifest in different ways I think a lot right oh yeah but um yeah let's go into so how does the Book of Mormon teach us about a better meaning give us purpose I should say the Book of Mormon is probably the most powerful conduit for personal re Revelation that I've ever found uh whenever I have a question immediately upon praying and searching everything is answered and I don't say that lightly I'm not just throwing that out as a sound bite that has happened for me constantly even recently I've had powerful experiences and so there are so many interpretations of everything that you could take but one I want to go to Mormon chapter one sweet first I'm going to do Seminary challenge here and and try you can get there quickest oh I'm in Doctrine Covenant that's not good so Mormon chapter one probably I mean would you agree perhaps the most depressing but yeah it's really really sad it is robbers bro uh and you know Screw everything up I'm an ether okay there we go here we go this is going to be terrible on audio isn't it because I'm just going to spend like 10 minutes finding every here it's all good we'll cut it uh maybe I've got it here though Book of Mormon so the Book of Mormon in the Book of Mormon in the Book of Mormon in the book Book of Mormon so we we know the scene and this actually sets it up Mormon 1 2:5 um and about the time that amaron hid up the records unto the Lord he came unto me I being about 10 years of age imagine that and I began to be learned somewhat after the manner of the learning of my people and amaron said unto me I perceive that thou art a sober child and art quick to observe therefore when ye are about 20 and 4 years old I would that ye have I would that you should remember the things that you have observed concerning this people and when you are of that age go to the land Anam unto a hill which Shall be Called shim and there have I deposited unto the Lord all the sacred Engravings concerning this people and behold ye shall take the plates of Nephi unto yourself and the remainder shall you leave in a place where they are and you shall engrave on the plates of Nephi all the things that you have observed concerning this people so okay so what we found here is Mormon's purpose you know Mormon has been given a very specific cic purpose at the time I I wonder how important he felt that purpose was we know how important it was in fact do we even know how important it was we know how important it is to each of us and then we go through and as we said this is like the most sad depressing book ever but if we go to Mormon chapter 2 straight away as the war begins okay so I'll read you know what I'm going to read from here because I've copied and pasted rather than finding them all uh verse eight but behold the land was filled with robbers and with lamanites and not withstanding the great destruction which hung over my people they did not repent of their evildoings therefore there was blood and Carnage spread throughout the face of the land both on the part of the Nephites and also on the lamanites and it was one complete Revolution throughout all the face of the land and going from 10 to 15 uh I might summarize that but yeah came to pass that Nephites began to repent there's increasing lamentation and this last verse oh it kills me every time uh 15 and it came to pass that my sorrow did return unto me again and I saw that the day of Grace was passed with them both temporally and spiritually for I saw thousands of them heun down in open Rebellion against their God and heaped as dung upon the face of the land and thus 344 years passed away I guess that's super depressing is really depressing what I took from that in my study when I've struggled in the past you know I came into podcasting through a meaning crisis myself I was working at a flooring store yeah I don't know anything about flooring but I was advising people on their flooring and I needed something greater but during that what inspires me is Mormon rightly complains and is upset and laments but we know through that that if he had stuck to his purpose which he did and focused on that purpose and said with full Integrity as he did I know my purpose and if I focus on this God's ways are higher than mine so I guess with the meaning crisis I'd love to hear your thoughts on this interpretation but Mormon's such a good example to me of really seeking to find your specific purpose in life we all have one and just trying your best to do it shut out the trends of the world shut out the lamentation shut out the depressing things that are going on in the news and just remember your person purp and do it to the best of your ability and the Lord will make great things come of it as we've seen with Mormon that's awesome Jackson reading this now I'm just coming to realize that I'm about to finish up my Mormon year I'm 24 years old and uh interesting I never thought of it because we think about you know it's my Jordan year when I'm 23 you know what I'm saying but it's your Taylor Swift year when it's 22 which is interesting that when we're when I'm 24 we started this up bro yeah coincidence I think not that's super interesting second thing um I totally think that identity crisis or like purpose crisis is coincides with identity crisis just like you were saying at the beginning because if we don't have a clear vision of where we are headed or what we are trying to become then our purpose is going to coincide with whatever our focuses right for example people in the world today create all manner of ites and actually can I can we flip to a scripture here in oh yes let's in fourth Nephi uh chapter 1 and essentially to set the stage here we have you know the most peaceful time in the Book of Mormon essentially and in uh verse 15 it kind of talks about this and why this was such a peaceful time and it says and it came to pass that there was no contention in the land because of the love of God which did dwell in the hearts of the people and there were no envyings nor stries nor tumults no whoredoms no lying nor murders nor no manner of lusciousness and surely there could have not been a happier people among all the people which had been created by the hand of God and this is the best verse right here it says and there were no robbers nor no murderers neither were there lamanites nor no manner of IES but they were in one the children of Christ and The Heirs to the kingdom of God and so what I learned from this verse here in this whole story of how there could have not been a happier people and we learned that it was because they all identified and held in number one place of identity a children a child of God heirs to the kingdom of God children of Christ and so I see in a world today where everyone is wanting to take hold of your identity whether it's by your race gender your football team that you you support oh that's football double O and U um whatever have you if we ever like let if we ever let one of those identifiers take first place over being a child of God then our purpose in life is going to be fulfilling that identifier and not fulfilling our identity as a child of God and I feel like if we're focused on a worldly classification it's it's only a matter of time a ticking Time Bomb before we hit that crisis of identity and meaning purpose in life for sure yeah that's so true if you're that's actually the way I'm looking at if you were just meant to to be a plumber like you just love fixing you know pipes and stuff like that and then someone puts you in a desk job it's only a matter of time before you're going to die because you are not meant for Corporate America right all of us are children of God and when the world tells tells us we're supposed to be something else it's only a matter of time before we feel this disconnect in our soul because we were made to become like our Father in heaven we were made to become like God and I think you hit it on the head right there it's like if we don't have our identity first our true identity we will never find our true purpose well here goad and and to say not to say that any of these other things are bad like we should enjoy our culture celebrate our differences stuff like that M but we just shouldn't let those things take first place and I think that's that's obious absolutely um and when when you first posed this question of like where do we find meaning and purpose the first scripture that came to my mind second Nephi chapter 2 and I thought of 14 and it kind of combines the two anwers together um it says and now my sons this is Lehi talking to his sons before he dies I speak unto you these things for your profit and learning for there is a God and he hath created all things both in in the heavens and in the earth and all things that in them are both things to act and things to be acted upon now you start off this conversation Ben talking about like the 50-year-old men that just like are this midlife crisis type thing and they just feel like they have no purpose in meaning they're wrapped up in their jobs and their families and they feel lost and I think recognizing that we were made to act and not be acted upon oh we were one of those things like it's so easy and I've done it to where the times where I felt the most meaningless or I felt the most depressed was when I just felt like life was happening to me that's a that's a fun Rabbit Hole there Let's do let's go down the rabbit hole what do you got this is why I love podcasting and why I I I was working for a lot of podcasting and that was really meaningful but I was like I need something of my own and I spoke at a university in England giving advice to new students and they said okay one final piece of advice and I said uh while you're while you're studying uh create something have a creative outlet and what I wanted to say to them but couldn't because it was a secular setting was uh we are made to create because God is a Creator we're Made In His Image we're trying to become like God therefore if we're not creating we live in a consumer culture by the way you know yeah we love you consuming this I don't I don't mean that there are good things to there are good things to consume and this this is Faith promoting which inspires you to act but a lot of things we consume don't Inspire us to act and it's in acting that we find vibrant faith that then inspires us to act again brings Faith again and that's spiritual momentum that's happiness that's I mean following on from that verse isoni 103 1032 okay uh this is the best purpose uh I had Brad Wilcox on my podcast and I asked him about this sort of meaning crisis and he uh he talked about when Richard Reeves visited the Brethren and uh he wrote a book about masculinity and and boys and men and he was saying what did he say you might have to cut this thought process out it's all good uh oh yeah he Brad Wilcox went to him and showed him the ironic priest theme MH and Richard Reeves responded and said if every man and boy had something like this there wouldn't be a crisis and following on Moroni 10:32 yay come unto Christ and be perfected in him and deny yourselves of all ungodliness and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness and love God with all your might mind and strength then is his grace sufficient for you that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ and if by the grace of God you are perfect in Christ you can in no wise deny the power of God I mean there's purpose there's purpose if you ever need yeah come unto Christ like that dude that and I love that purpose because you can can take it you know from the spiritual theological level like right come unto Christ the son of God he's died for our sins when we come unto him we'll receive his grace we can become like him right but then even just on the philosophical level who is Christ he's a representation of all that is good that's why he's a king of kings he he he takes every single virtue and he embodies that virtue and so the pursuit of coming unto Christ just on a philosophical level is Improvement self-improvement if there is a purpose that exists is to turn us losers I'm speaking for myself you guys and him not you no I'm a loser us okay then all three of us losers and to become not as big of losers like that is a purpose in and of itself and it has nothing to do with our career it has nothing to do with our our wealth or our social status it has to do with us individually and and that's that on the philosophical level that's what this is this is saying saying it's saying aim for something higher and that's a purpose yeah and this this whole thing is how is the book of [ __ ] answering the question of our time of the crisis of meaning and for me the most profound answer I've ever received was in The Book of Mormon and this might not be the verse that strikes you you know but for me it every day it's permeated my soul it got it made me get up in the morning and think I want to do something that matters and it was Alma 3432 behold this life is the time for men to prepare to meet God uh this is a probationary period that principle I believe that that is true um and in fact I scarcely when I share my testimony say I know something is true because you know just semantically I I don't know I believe it but I've tested that and I feel like I'm close to saying I know that because the fruits of that have changed my life uh so anyone struggling with meaning pray about that verse and I know I don't know maybe you can have the same experience that I had which uh brought my life real you know spice sp432 it's such an important verse I want to ask you Jackson real quick what is what is like that principle that gospel principle that you can say like you know you know what I mean because I have one that comes to mind but I want to hear yours do you have one like a scripture or something where you're just like oh I know my bone dude I don't know if it's verse specific or scripture specific but from the experiences like for example we went on conversion to Christ podcast and we yeah awesome stuff shout out Jackson Mars and I kind of told you about my process in deciding to join the military right and how God gave me such a specific answer like Jackson Wayne Paul specific and not only from that moment on and he used the scripture so you know what yeah this is all intertwined together I know that God the god that gave the power to Moses to split the Red Sea mhm answered my prayer which is such a wild thought and I love thinking about that such a merciful god that when he saw that I was in need of wisdom and I lacked it and I humbly asked him for it having faith that I know I would receive an answer from him he gave it to he hooked it up that's beautiful yeah that's a good principle Charles Spurgeon talks about the Red Sea talk he says it's a symbolism of the atonement of Jesus Christ interesting in that uh Jesus Christ Parts the Red Sea of God's justice that's cool so and then swallows up those who don't who don't serve him I don't know about that yeah could be yeah could but uh yeah my my thing that I will say I'm I'm similar to you like semantically like once again like Jordan Peterson he when people ask him do you believe in God he's like I act as if God exist well well depends what you mean by act it's complicated Jordan if you see this look we still working on her hope he doesn't hope he doesn't he'll never see this um but uh yeah like how he answers I act as if God exists which means yeah he believes in God right because he's he's breaking down the structure what that means so I have a hard time sometimes saying I know this or I know that but one thing that I do know that one thing is seek ye first the kingdom of God and all these things will be added unto you I have been taught that a dozen or more times in my life where when I've sought the kingdom of God and I didn't worry about oh how am I going to pay the bills how am I going to do this The Stick of Joseph is a perfect example I quit my job completely with two kids a brand new kid and my wife and I had no idea how we were going to provide we didn't really have any savings and somehow we still live in a house and we still have our kids they're all alive still and they're fed well and I I can't really explain to you how like we we made like no money last year but somehow God has provided and I just I know that so anyone listening seek the kingdom of God first and everything else will be added unto you you might not get a Lambo but you're going to be all right no I'm getting a Lambo L out I'm out all right what's the next question well here can I Sor you had thing yeah so in the social media age when we have these purpose crisises crisis what is it crisis I that's the British guy they they know language better than us crisises um we we have social media and we look at people that were like I wish I could have it figured out like Benjamin Hancock from for all the saints I wish I could have it figured out like Greg Matson from Quick media and and a lot of people uh we we hear a lot of times many church leaders have said that comparison is a thief of Joy right but the beautiful thing about this going back to that verse in fourth Nephi is that if we're all under one purpose and striving for one goal why should we not look to others successes and rejoice in them and I love a a verse in Alma where it it's the chapter where he's like I wish I could be an angel of God so I could claim the gospel so much more efficiently you know after he's already done so much work for the building up of the kingdom of God Alma 29 um and he's he's talking about all these awesome things that God has been able to use him as a tool to perform we're going to be in verses uh 13 through 16 I think but essentially he's talking about all these amazing things that God has been able to do through him and the efforts of his Brethren and uh it says here starting in verse 13 it says yay and that same God did establish his church among them his Brethren essentially yay and that same God hath called me by a holy calling to preach the word unto this people and hath given me much success in the which my joy is full but I do not joy in my own success alone but my joy is more full more full because of the success of my brethren which had been up which have been up to the land of Nephi behold they have labored exceedingly and have brought forth much fruit and how great shall be their reward and so we see that so Good by the way he he was joyful because of the things that God was able to do through him but he says that he was more joyful because he could look around to his Brethren that were also striving to be vessels of God and he's like oh I'm so much more pumped because they're finding success as as well yeah oh I love that and I feel like it's so applicable I mean in our scenario right it's so important like we were talking about this just barely it's about this idea of having an abundance mindset like in what we're doing like we're making content about the scriptures and about God and about Jesus Christ how bad would it be if we were looking around at other people be like they have more subs they have more subs than me they have more views and then be angry about that or like when Ben reaches out to us and we're like oh we want to we want to keep him down we don't want to promote we don't want toote this that sort of thing like no that's so like that sort of mindset is ridiculous and what this is saying is like God's grace and his love and the joy he has for all of us it's it's never ending it's infinite and so we don't need to be like checking ourselves compared to other people and worried about whether or not we like he's not saying oh they converted more people than me I don't even want to talk about them you know he's not comparing baptism or whatever right and I just it's so easy to do that in today's world on both the good and and the bad side you know what I mean so absolutely that I've I will cherish that verse uh I didn't really see it that way uh but you've shown me the light and thank you Jacks that's fantastic so good all right what's the next question the book of Mormon's going to answer let's go for a really tricky one that links to the first one which is the Mental Health crisis okay now obviously kind of touchy and we're not saying like it's not right when people are saying just just be obedient and it'll be fine like I have been as a faithful member I've had difficult struggles with mental health um and that's not the point of this it is finding answers in the Book of Mormon that can lead you to uh proper Joy last Joy so yeah uh first I want to go to third third Nephi 8 um for probably a really interesting symbolic idea I I don't I haven't found anything that describes depression better um and this is when you know this is before the coming of Christ to the Nephites can I just say I love this episode this is such a I want to do this stuff more dude talking about the doctrine of the Book of Mormon is amazing I love this it's so fun uh even with jet lag I'm enjoying it it's really fun uh verses 20 to 23 and it came to pass that there was thick Darkness upon all the face of the land again consider depression and how it actually real time feels I mean uh yeah anyway uh upon all the face of the land in so much that the inhabitants thereof who had not Fallen could feel the vapor of darkness and there could be no light because of the darkness neither candles neither torches neither could there be fire kindled with their fine and exceedingly dry wood so that there could not be any light at all and there was not any light seen neither fire nor glimmer neither the sun nor the moon nor the stars for so great were The Mists of darkness which were upon the face of the land and there was great mourning and Howling and weeping among all the people continually yeah great were the groanings of the people because of the darkness and we we go to the Tree of Life as well you know when when the mist of darkness comes upon all the people uh and those who I take comfort in the fact I've experienced depression in in my life not to the extent of many people who chronically suffer with it and I I feel for them I've had a taste of it and it's it's horrible um and yet I have faith that those who cling to the iron Rod as Lehi did and those that made it through the Mists of Darkness uh will not be consumed by that Darkness uh and that that message really touches me because when you're in that moment of anxiety depression uh Panic other bereavement grief all these things that really take a allll uh it can be hard to believe that it's impermanent yeah uh it can be hard to remember that mortal deficiencies are temporary but that's why clinging onto the iron Rod those who weren't clinging did fall off into other paths those who clung on through that mist of Darkness were not consumed and for me that's been the same when I've it was a pried blessing that helped me turned my situation around when I was dealing with mental health issues and uh for me that was I clung on to that blessing just as I clung on to the word of God in the Book of Mormon so that's an interesting symbolic view of of mental health I don't know what you both think about that I love that and I think the answer to this and and this is what's so good is it's it's universally applicable because what what what happens after all of this Christ comes and he spends how many days teaching all of these different things and all these amazing experiences happen right and and the Tree of Life in first Nephi that comes straight after tree of life that comes straight after and so I guess the point is is I don't know the specifics and you know I used to help a lot of guys and I still do talk to a lot of guys about overcoming pornography and I was tell them the same thing bro I'm not going to give you the Magic Bullet I don't know the Magic Bullet for overcoming pornography I don't know the Magic Bullet for getting out of depression crippling anxiety but I do know that there is one common variable and he will give you the Magic Bullet and it's Christ the son of God and and clinging to him like to the iron Rod clinging to his words that will lead you out of the darkness it is Christ right the fruit the glowing fruit that leads him out of the darkness it is him descending on the Nephites out of that darkness that clears it up he will and it's not uh oh you're just going to pray it away and it's going to be fine type thing it's like no cling on to Christ fall at his feet weep on his feet and he will heal you and he'll give you the personalized things that you need to do to get out because I'm not going to give it to you I can't it's interesting you say that and I bet there are people listening that think well I Believe In Christ and I don't feel that so what does that look like in real time and I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this when you've been in the dark times but for me that that Silver Bullet wasn't like well I'll make it better then there you are I do feel anxious anymore what helped me was that through Christ I understood that it was impermanent that this is a probationary period that this is temporary uh and that answered a lot of questions about suffering in general like this is impermanent uh and I think that's so important that we look in Romans I know this is a book of Mormon podcast but you look in Romans no no other scriptures we just kidding let's get into the Apocrypha yeah so in Romans in Romans we see how Jesus Christ endured the greatest suffering that anyone's gone through how did he endure the cross Paul says look unto me in every no that's Doctrine covenants looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross uh despi getting rid of the despising and is now set at the right hand of God uh that principle of Jesus endured that cross for the joy that was set before him he didn't have a hope of no I I know that God's going to stop this right now you know we can't we don't know that there's no Silver Bullet of that but what we do know is the joy that was set before us and we hold that and that comes through Christ so welome yeah I I think of the I guess quote unquote darkest times in my life where I felt most depressed and without answers to questions is personally looking back on it in retrospect now is when I kind of tried to come up with my own solutions for what I thought would solve the issues that I was facing and we kind of see that throughout scripture like for example in the very beginning when Adam and Eve eat the fruit what do they do they make aprons of fig fig leaves and they try to solve the problem of you know their nakedness right and then one of the first things that God does is that he makes coats of skin and clothes them clothes them right right and so going back to what you're saying clean to the iron Rod this year for come follow me when I was reading that story I I thought of it yes of course of the scriptures but also of God's promises you know like our word is our bond if we hold on to God's word and Trust in the answers that he gives us for our issues then I truly believe you know after the dark is dark will come Christ you know just like in this story where it's talking about the deepest dark vapor upon the Earth you know Christ eventually came because if we trust in him the light will always come and uh I see a cool example of this uh where we try to you know make our own where we where we try to find our own solutions for our issues instead of using Gods um and that's in helalim in Chapter 13 and to give context the you know the people are not super righteous right now they're putting their hearts on their riches and God essentially says he's going to curse the land to make everything become slippery which is kind of silly I don't know if he just made everything covered in in dish soap that comes up some fun images doesn't it falling on ice rinks it says uh he's cursed everything that it becomes slippery and so uh we're going to read here um we'll say 31 now we'll do 34 okay so essentially he curses the land that everything becomes slippery and then in 34 it says behold we layth a tool here and on the marrow it is gone and behold our swords are taken from us in the day we have sought for them in battle yay and we have hid up our treasures and they have slipped away from us because of the curse in the land oh that we had repented in the day that the word of the Lord came unto us for behold the land is cursed and all things have become slippery and we cannot hold them so I think that a lot of people and this kind of coincides with the question like can people outside of the church be happy or people outside of you know faith in Christ be happy yeah I think they can for you know a time a temporal time if they're focused on just happiness in this life in this Mortal state but there's going to come a day where the tools that they laid down yesterday to find Comfort to find peace to find happiness they're going to wake up on the tomorrow and it's going to be gone and in the day of that battle when they need to pick up those solutions that they've used for years and it's been fine that sword is not going to be there and so I think trusting in the the word of God even through the dark nights and that dark Vapor it may last three days but after that third day the light is going to come and uh yeah and it'll be long lasting yeah yeah I just think about you know we've talked about this Jackson and I are in the Marine Corps and what is the what is the main thing for coping in the Marine Corps what does what does every Marine have packed in his lip a zin zin zin a z a nicotine right tedic upper decky what they call it ridiculous but no and like obviously I my my coping I don't use nicotine but I use social media like Doom scrolling you know what I mean like we have these little things that we use to comfort us to help us manage with stress but eventually they will all go away but the stress I I don't think the stress will the anxiety like I I think a lot of times we think that when we die just everything's happy joy I don't think so I think it's I think it's a continuation of where we are right now and if if we have found peace in this life there will be peace in the life to come I think there's a scripture in the Book of Mormon that talks about finding peace in this life and in the life to come and how that is that is like the gift to those who believe in Jesus Christ and I yeah just going along with that I don't know the specific answers to your depression or to your anxiety but I do know that it is through Christ that you will find longlasting relief and it looks like when it comes to the Practical because as you pointed out some people are like well I believe in Jesus but it's not going away and it's like no I understand that there are there have to be practical things and like some thoughts I would share in terms of practical things are um you know we learn in the New Testament that we the Saints make up the body of Christ right all of us collectively and so it's using the help of those around us so going to a therapist that that helped me when I struggled a ton like I I've I've gone to a therapist before um you know asking help from your friends and family around you um sometimes you know part of I I think using you know the the medical things that have been provided us as well is something that is good and comes from Christ and so I I think that you have to step outside of the box like and and hold on to Christ but also remember there are practical things that you can do that is more than just praying and reading the scriptures I think a lot of times we equ we equate anything having to do with faith in Jesus Christ to just reading the scriptures and praying but it's bigger than that my mind when you say that was immediately taken to Moroni who there are so so many things that not the book of Moroni sorry Alma 46 specifically Captain Maroni Captain the original OG Moroni perhaps one of the greatest men to ever live from how he did is described I would agree with that yeah yeah but who did he write that who wrote that he was the real top G he was a real top G Andrew also top G if you're watching we'd love to have you on the show I can I can guarantee I would put my life on the fact that top G will never see this I know I don't know uh Alma 4612 13 sorry 13 K and he fastened on his head plate this is just after he's written the title of Liberty by the way literally the verse after and he fastened on his headplate and his breastplate and his Shields and girded on his armor about his loins and he took the pole which had on the had on the end thereof his rent coat and he called it the title of Liberty and then and he bowed himself to the Earth and he prayed mightily unto his God for the blessings of liberty to rest upon his Brethren so long as there should a band of Christians remain to possess the land I love that principle of Moroni puts all of the armor that he possibly could on and he's like I'm ready for battle I've done what I think is right uh and then I bow myself down and mightily pray to the Lord and uh there are a bunch of things that I learned from that of actually that relates to 48 like people talk about 48 quite a lot I think unless maybe they don't it's a legendary chapter yeah oh yeah 8 to 10 um yay he had been strengthening the armies of the Nephites and erecting small forts or places of Resort throwing up Banks of earth round about to enclose his armies and also building walls of stone to encircle them about round about their cities and the borders of their lands they all round about the land and in their weakest fortifications he did place the greater number of men and thus he did fortify and strengthen the land which was present possessed by the Nephites and thus he was preparing to support their Liberty um so I guess what I'm learning from those two things from what you were saying is uh in terms of practicality The Book of Mormon does give an important principle there that even in times of Peace what can you be doing to fortify yourself uh and then once you've done all that you can uh then that's the time to cling on right you you cling on to the the word of God you pray mightily but I know for me that fortifying I probably guess in today's world that is becoming more and more advanced that a mental health issue will come again um and so I'm thinking to myself what can I do now to fortify myself for when that comes and you know statistically you would look at relationships uh positive relationships with friends with your spouse uh you would look at um sport physical fitness you know are you engaging in physical activ ity a healthy amount consumption of content but also consumption physically of food and drink what what am I consuming so there are all these things that you can constantly fortify yourself but then on top of that spiritually we know the the ultimate answer is the joy that's set before us so there are I I learned practical things for dealing with mental health from the book of Mor as well as those spiritual lessons and hopefully that might help someone well one thing before we move on to the next question question verse 7 I love this one because it shows the difference right of where people get their power from right and so verse 7even of of chapter 48 now it came to pass that while am malakiah who's the bad guy had thus been obtaining Power by fraud and deceit Moroni on the other hand had been preparing the minds of the people to be faithful unto the Lord their God that is so that is so baller I love that so much it is so cool because it's just like the way to acquire power in this world is say through fraud and deceit right if if you're going to go through just a worldly way but he relied on this I like of praying to God and and that was the that was the foundation and then everything else and then after that you get and he also built walls and all this stuff but the foundation was he's going to build faith in God maybe in another life I'll get to see Mel Gibson Cass as Captain m W there he's too old now surely I know I know dude gosh in his Brave heart days legendary well I have I have some other scriptures that I I just thought what if I just never mind us discussing them in detail but if I just throw them out there in case they're help them out yeah uh ether 12:27 and if men come unto me I will show unto them their weakness I give unto men weakness that they may be humble and my grace is sufficient for all men that humble themselves before me for if they humble themselves before me and have faith in me then will I make weak Things become strong un them following on from the permanence piece um we're fallen so you know you can almost accept that there will be difficulty and say you know what this isn't a thing that has come to interrupt my life this is a part of life and that that brought me some peace yeah mosiah 24:14 and I will also ease the burdens which are put upon your shoulders that even you cannot feel them upon your backs even while you're in bondage and this will I do that ye may stand as Witnesses for me Hereafter and that you may know of assurity that I the Lord God do visit my people in their afflictions I've been quite open about my mental health struggles because it was the Lord that brought me out of them and from this I I gather that the purpose of that was to make me empathize more uh stand as a witness that it was him who brought me out of the Affliction Alma 363 and now oh my son Helman behold Thou Art in thy Youth and therefore I beseech each of thee that thou will hear my words and learn of me for I do know that whosoever shall put their trust in God shall be supported in their trials and their troubles and their afflictions and shall be lifted up at the last day finally uh probably three of the most important verses in the whole of the Book of Mormon Alma 7 11-13 uh really powerful and he shall go forth suffering pains and afflictions and temptations of every kind and this that the word might be fulfilled which saith he will take upon him the pains and sicknesses of his people and He will take upon Him death that he may loose the bands of death which bind his people and He will take upon Him their infirmities that his bowels may be filled with Mercy according to the flesh that he may know according to the flesh how to sucker his people according to their infirmities now the spirit knoweth all things nevertheless the Son of God suffereth according to the flesh that he might take upon him the sins of his people that he might blot out their transgressions according to the power of His deliverance and now behold this is the testimony which is in me and yeah that's a testimony which is in me too I I love the principle of Deliverance I've been delivered uh and you know I pray that those who are struggling will be as well that's amazing I got a quick little download while you're talking there of just a lot of times you might be asking yourself why have I been given this trial why do I suffer from depression anxiety or whatever it is right and a lot of times we think it can be a sign of God's disfavor in us when it happens long enough we can say what have we done wrong but look at what you just pointed out here look at the the the the main story of the Old Testament which is the Jews in slavery in the Egyptians and then being delivered by God and then look at Nephi in you know first Nephi how many times is he referen back to that as he's trying to remind his Brethren like God will deliver us and so those the Jews who suffered under the hands of the Egyptians made it so that scores and scores of people after them were able to draw back on their experience as a reminder that God will deliver them and so when you are struggling with depression anxiety or whatever struggle it is that you're having just remember that as you hold on to God one day you will be able to stand as a witness and your story may be able to told from generation to generation so that other people may remember that they too will be delivered one day beautiful that's awesome let's hit one more let's hit one more question one more let's do one more I'll give you the menu let's do it okay yeah I'm going choose being more open about your faith having faith in the future despite struggles and or overcoming doubt Jackson choose what was the first one being more open about your [Music] faith what are you do I say we do that one I like that one I say we do that okay can I kick that off oh please do yeah I have one scripture for that um um I think about like one thing that I love and I will talk about with anyone is golf I love golf it's probably because I play in amount and an unhealthy amount for my bank account and my productivity yeah but I'm getting better especially because it's winter that's that's the only reason you're getting better it's winter passes are super expensive but anyways um and I think about why I I and I think about that in regards to the gospel it becomes so much easier to share something when it becomes a part of us when we are constantly putting effort towards profounding our knowledge on it bettering our skill or making it more of a part of our daily lives right and so in regards to sharing the gospel it's so easy as a missionary because you wake up you study for 3 hours you leave the house you wear it on your chest wear it on your chest everything about being a missionary is towards that end and when we get back into the world it's so hard because we have these many distractions professions jobs and it'd be nice if all we could focus on is the word of God but the more we focus on it amidst our other trials and distractions and things that um pull us away we are going to be way more comfortable and actually anxious and excited to share the gospel yeah I love that that's that's an amen right there what scripture you got that was an amen that was brilliant uh Alma chapter 315 when you know the mission to the zoramites um funny thing this this Alma Ser no sorry that was Alma 7 that sermon statistically probably would have taken Joseph two hours to translate MH that whole beautiful sermon of the atonement considering like the scale and the size of that MH incredible anyway Elma 315 and now as the preaching of the word had a great tendency to lead the people to do that which was just yay it had had more powerful effect upon the minds of the people than the sword or anything else which happened unto them therefore Elma thought it was expedient that they should try the virtue of the word of God uh let me just like it had it had had more powerful effect upon the minds of the people than the sword like if a tyrant came and threatened you more the word of God was more pers persuasive yeah more persuasive and I I I look you know in America 55% of young people identify as Christian according to a criteria of that's very lenient that identifies a committed Christian someone who lives it uh reads the Bible every now and then goes to church every now and then says a prayer every now and then 8% of people would be classed as a committed Christian young young people in America so you might despair at that but I Rejoice at that thinking that well that's 55% of people that would be open if I were to actually be open about my faith uh only 8% are already like no yeah I totally get it you know I I agree uh the other ones would be like wow and when you look at the human flourishment scale this was a new study done out and that human flourishing scale the markers of human flourishing are Financial stability relationship stability uh happiness levels uh a bunch of different markers mhm uh the top people no so let me word this different L those who believed in something and lived according to that religion it was specifically religion had a human flourishment scale of 7.9% those who believed in a religion but didn't live it had a happiness or human flourishing scale of 6.9% that's a a whole point difference those who didn't believe and didn't live it has a had a human flourishment scale of 6.8 so you get less happy the less you live what you not just that but if you believe in your faith if I believe in this gospel and I don't live according to it if I don't study my scriptures and don't go to church I may as well not believe in anything and worse I'm worse off actually that's 0 one% difference of the human flourishment scale between those who don't believe anything and those who do believe but just can't be bothered to live it a whole point difference between those who do going to church every week in terms of Happiness equates to a 60 Grand pay rise add above that all the other actions that Faith inspires so what I'm saying from this is we know the word of God has power you know that people will be receptive more than you would think because we live in a secular society so share it so just share it be open uh you'll find you'll be surprised that's awesome thanks for sharing that that was really cool my my scripture that comes to my mind is Elma 36 the classic Elma the younger recounting what happens to him right and I I'll do this to so he says uh yeah and a son okay in 21 he says yay I say unto you my son that there could be nothing so Exquisite and so bitter as were my pains yay and again I say unto you my son that on the other hand there can be nothing so Exquisite and so sweet as my joy then just a couple verses later he says yay and from that time forth the time that he felt those and he repented from that time forth even even until now I have labored without ceasing that I might bring Souls unto repentance that I might bring them to a taste of the exceeding Joy of which I did taste that they might also be born of God and be filled with the Holy Ghost yeah and now behold my son the Lord do give me exceedingly great joy in the fruit of my labors so at the end of the day if you want to feel like pumped up to share the gospel with people you have to be a witness of what that gospel can do and what that means is practicing it as you put forth it it means repenting and if you think you don't have something to repent of you haven't dug deep enough I I I have I have certain levels that I can dug into my dig into my psyche and my character because if I go too deep it becomes so much like we don't recognize how much we can become and how much the sins of omission and commission hold us back from from being that and so I just think if if you are the one who sits in church is like I've never even thought about sharing the gospel with someone before it's like then do your best to live the gospel yourself and I I promise you once you do that you're not going to be able to shut up about it MH and I'm curious going back to what you said that you kind of sometimes avoid the phrase I know when it comes to spiritual matters can you expound a little bit on your I kind of think maybe that's a lack of of Faith because I hear the apostles and Brethren at church test to I and say I know that the Book of Mormon is true what I mean by that is I have no doubt in my mind that it's true um and semantically you know the word no is like I I'll tell you I haven't seen an angel I haven't had that I've had spiritual experiences that cause me to not have any doubt and even when these you know there are content creators who like to cast confusion uh and try to stoke Division and I've consumed some of that content and when I have turned to the Book of Mormon straight after every single question I could have and did have clarified clarified and so when I say that it's it's sort of like uh when I go up to the stand and say I know that God Lives it's like uh well I mean if if a scholar was to come and say do you know by scientific basis and I'd say well I mean I guess I guess not but I have no doubt in my mind I have anecdotal Ence uh not not empirical or quantitative but anecdotal personal evidence and uh you know whoever you are you can't refute that uh so that that's what I mean I hope it didn't sound contrary or cynical uh I I'm I'm the exact same way yeah yeah it's just a weird Quirk yeah no I I because I agree with you and I wanted to kind of see your motive behind that and I I I have I I like to avoid saying let me restart start that I tend to avoid saying I know because I see that as kind of like a final like period statement like I know the God Lives I know the Book of Mormon is true therefore boom like I know the work has been done to come to that knowledge I know right and I see two huge examples in the book of [ __ ] right at the beginning like you said you haven't seen an angel there's some dudes that saw angels and they still struggled like crazy to keep the Commandments of God and stay motivated and this last weekend come follow me in first Nephi 17 when Nephi receives the Commandment to build a boat and he starts building and his brothers mock him and stuff and he says that he's filled with the power of God so much so if they touched him they would dry they would wither away like a dried Reed or something like that and then they didn't touch him for a couple days and God gave him the Commandment he's like Str put forth your hand and shock and I will shock them so so that they may know that is by my power that you know you do these things and so he does they get shocked or whatever I always think in that book of Mormon videos it's so funny how they portray that it's like they're getting tazed or whatever but maybe that's how it was and then it's so funny what they say in verse 55 of uh chapter 17 after that it says this is lame Layman and lemel speaking it says we know of assurity we know of assurity that the Lord is with thee for we know that it is the power power of the Lord that has shaken us okay they say we know that God is with you that you have been commanded by God essentially because we know with assurity that the Lord has commanded you and then the very next page they're on the boat and this is what happens it says behold my brethren and the sons of ishma and also their wives began to make themselves marry in so much that they began to dance and to sing and to speak with much rudeness and even to that they did forget by what power they had been brought thither and they were lifted up unto exceeding rudess now we see this throughout because the trend with Nephi right he receives a commandment from God or from his dad even and then he goes and confirms with the Lord he does the spiritual work necessary to receive his own answer now this answer was kind of forced upon lemon and Lemo when they got Shook and then they're like okay because we were Shook and that has never happened to us before and that was kind of weird we know of assurity that the Lord is with you but then after that they failed to feed that knowledge they didn't do the work necessary to really understand that the Lord had called Nephi right and so I I don't like saying that because I think it's me not knowing for assurity that keeps me motivated keeps me hungry and seeking after knowledge curious and hungry yeah because I don't you know know of assurity yet but you know I don't have any doubts in my mind like you but yeah and I also I guess I would say this like what I'm getting from what you're saying is it's irrelevant you know what I mean like so what you know how are you acting what are you living I mean we we read in Hebrews right when he's talking when he's given that dissertation on faith and he says even the Devils know and or I think they say believe or something like that like even the Devils know Jesus they know he's the son of God or it says even the devils confess that he's the son of God and then he talks about that you should have faith and works that's a that's it's the same thing that he's talking about faith and works and so it's like yeah I don't care if you know the Book of Mormon is true how are you living it like I my curiosity my cuur like when I meet someone how they act and who they are makes me want to know what they do and why they do it and so it's like you going out and being like I know that this is an angel anent record and uh it's uh it's true like so what what does that have to do with me but if you're living your life in a way where people are like man what is that guy drinking what is that guy doing you know what I mean that's when it's going to matter but just knowing that the book of morm and true who cares it's like that saying if you're green you're growing if you're ripe you're rotting and you know in dang one more time in that beautiful accent say that one more time if you're green you're growing if if you're right you're rotting if you're right have you never heard that no oh that's like you sound like CS Lewis uh great books by the way CS um and what I mean by that is in in Britain we have a we have a religious tradition that is mysterious and there's something I I have a bit of religious jealousy about that mystery in that saying I believe is a journey saying I know is a destination and and yeah I I just I shared my testimony recently at the stand uh and I I felt to say at the end I do believe truly that the Book of Mormon is the word of God and I say that because like when I say I know it's like believing feels like a Pursuit you know and I think in the context of being open about our faith when you're telling someone I know this they're just like you know oh you're right and I'm wrong it's like I believe this and suddenly they're respectful about what you believe because it's less arrogant and they're like you believe that that's really cool that you believe that I know this true that's a bit and so what if you know I guess that's the whole point yeah so what like why should someone care if you if you know something you know what I mean especially like if when they when they ask you how do you know then then you just tell your beliefs about it based on experiences you've had you you explain beliefs you don't explain knowledge after that does that make sense so yeah I mean we learn in the famous verses that are quoted in the introduction of the Book of Mormon Moroni you know 10 3-5 right it says by the power of the Holy Ghost you may know the truth of all things so it's not saying not to say that you know because we've had the experiences we don't know right I I think it's more just like and maybe it's because of our language has adopted you know definitions for things that are different than you know the definitions when they wrote the scriptures right yeah cuz no also meant something else back in theic days too exactly bro exactly no but that's a that's a really good point um yeah I was going to say something about I forgotten um which isn't good for podcasts is it supposed to be eloquent but yeah I I think yeah we can know the truth of all things we can know things from a spiritual standpoint but just like you're saying I think that's more of a destination and belief is also too like when I share the gospel like with Marines and stuff and I say I believe these things I I have found in my experience there're a lot more Curious to ask like why do you believe that fol Curiosity no is like Case Closed you're not listening you're not even interested in hearing like if you know two and two plus two then you're not going to want to hear two and two plus two two and two imagine someone saying the same thing about a political belief they had and they said no I know I know Trump is the best president and then you're and then people are like well that's not going to convert anyone to believing that but if you say actually I believe that this and this and this and then they think well I could be a bit more respectful about that but it goes back to what you said about what are you doing about it we know that when we stop keeping the Commandments and doing the things we ought to the light which we have received is taken away even that which has already been given is taken away and so it's like yeah you know but that doesn't mean anything really it might help someone in their faith Journey but for you if you see that as a destination then it stops your curiosity and you stop going and that thing which you already know you start to realize actually I don't really know that anymore I've got to get my head into it you know yeah so yeah well Ben after this conversation I want to go down I want I want to go to like Los Angeles downtown Los Angeles stand on a soap box and start preaching man like I'm fired up right now you know what I mean like I just I love the word of God I love the Book of Mormon your insights have been amazing and so I appreciate you sharing those what do you want to share with everyone before we go where can they find you and and if there's any last testimony you want to you want to share uh well firstly I would say it's it's not me it's it's the Book of Mormon and it's it's God I I feel very privileged to have being the beneficiary of personal revelation and I tested president Nelson's practical advice for Revelation get a notebook say a prayer listen listen and the Book of woman helps me in that because uh my brain is full when I'm working and stuff I've got constant things on my mind but when I look in the Book of Mormon I say a prayer I have specific question every day I've got questions you know yeah um and read the book of Mormon and my hand's just going my hand's going and then I read back I've got an apple note on here as well that um can prove it if anyone uh so the Book of Mormon is the word of God I believe it I have no doubt in my mind that it is it's uh I'm grateful to know that and you know if if you want to share in my faith Journey you can subscribe for all the saints and we've got an Instagram that we try to share valuable um uplifting content that hopefully when you're Doom scrolling there's a bit of the opposite to Doom uh same as you guys you know we're just trying to help people aren't we and and learn ourselves like it's it's great thank you for having me on well thanks for suffering through the jet lag to no no you are my personal favorite Paul Brothers of content creation Logan just don't start wrestling and boxing and doing we were thinking about doing LDS like boxing matches with like we'll have like X Mormons and Mormons that would be awesome can I be the guy with the mic down the inod get ready to rumble no that's awesome well we appreciate it and until actually you're going to say the tagline but I want you to do your best American accent say stay curious and hungry in your best American accent you know I played he Kimble in the British pageant and they had me do an americ Amer accent that so I shouldn't have said why did I say it was rubbish then it's rubbish now we'll just say until next time stay curious and hungry your best American accent do you want like Southern draw or general Utah Mundy or Utah actually probably can't do that but until next time stay curious and hungry and turn off YouTube and go get in the scriptures yeah awesome dude man that was so fun dude that was really fun that was one of my favorite Epis

Channel: The Stick of Joseph

Views: 12,763

Keywords: The Book of Mormon, mormon, nephi, lehi, golden plates, the stick of joseph, jesus, christ, jesus christ, bible, the church of Jesus Christ of latter-day saints, lds, book of mormon central, fair mormon, archeology, book of mormon evidences, nahom, book of mormon archeology

Id: B1ThvT9EZ0E

Length: 72min 3sec (4323 seconds)

Published: Thu Feb 29 2024