- The tech scout was the
first time I was like, oh shit.
(Ben chuckles) I got the entire crew in here
and everybody has questions. (both laugh) - Yeah, where are the lights? - Where we shooting, over here? The lights over that way. Okay, got electric over this way. And I'm like, oh man.
(both laugh) (upbeat music) (upbeat music continues) When did we first meet each other? It's like when people ask me when I met one of my best friends. You try to think back
and you can never think of that exact moment.
- What was that moment? I don't really know. - And I was-
- Did you remember what the? - Yeah, it was right
around "Fruitvale Station." "Fruitvale Station" had
premiered at Sundance. And I remember you and Matt had hit me. And was basically like, "Mike, your life is
getting ready to change." You know? Like you kind of told me about the movie, told me about Ryan, you
know what I'm saying? You were just kind of just
talking me through the movie. And I was like, wow, this
guy actually watched the film and he's actually like, he likes my work. And then from there, it was
just like a big brother, little brother kind of
like relationship, man. - Yeah, it's funny 'cause to me, that what happens you get older. I saw the movie, I was like, I'm like, "This guy's just like me." You know what I mean? You know, you're like, well, yeah, I'm a little older. I guess a big brother,
kind of close brother. (Michael laughs) But, you know, to me, I
just remember so clearly I saw that movie and it was
like, "This guy is a star." Not only is he fabulous actor, but he had this magnetic
kind of center of that movie that was so raw in the
way it was to feel real. And in the middle of that, so it was like really self-evident to me. I was like, "I'm gonna
call him like a fan." I was like, "I'm gonna call him, "tell him I love this movie." - And that meant a lot, man. Because I think for me, I
was still really insecure around opening up a film. I think for that movie
for me was the first time I was the lead of a movie. And carrying a film was a big, you know, it's a question, a
lot of inner doubt as an actor as you're coming up trying to see if you could actually open a film. And when you kind of just
gave me all the things that you loved about the
movie and the performance. I was like, wow, okay. This is like the first industry, you know, a peer colleague,
somebody that I look up to actually telling me
that they liked my work. And it meant a big deal to me at the time. - That's sweet because I really was, I just saw it as like,
it's so clear to me. Like, honestly, I could
have foreseen right all the way up to here. This guy's just gonna (mumbles) and be ready.
- And that's what you said. - Because I know that
there's a lot of things that come along that are difficult. - Exactly.
- That nobody tells you. And I had a friend doing it with me that I could sort of bounce things like, "Isn't this fucking crazy?" You know?
- Yep, yep. - And I feel like it's a very
lonely experience sometimes 'cause you don't really know. And I was like, "Hey man,
if I can help you at all "or you wanna talk to somebody "who's never gonna tell anybody "who would give you honest feedback." I may not be right. I always tell you the truth. I do what I can, and I love
the relationship we have. It's really like, and
now I just brag about it. I'm like, "Oh, Mike B. Jordan's my friend. "I know him."
(Micheal laughs) My kids are like, "Shut up, no you don't." (both laugh) - No, man, it's a, people don't really realize
how big of an impact that can make on somebody, especially when you don't know
what's coming next, you know? And in this industry, so
many things, you know, you could be one way one day and something totally
different than the next. And you ride this wave and
these windows of opportunity. So for you to kind of
call out the pitfalls or the dry spells or those
moments that you might have when you're doubting yourself
or doubting the choices or decisions that you're making, you really kind of like laid
that out in a really way and you made yourself accessible. - It's a very big deal. People don't realize to go from a life where you feel like you're
just part of the crowd to being kind of in front of the crowd. - [Michael] It's a transition, bro. - And it's a big adjustment to make, and you did it really well. And what you really did that I admire is this same thing with directing. It was that confidence,
like I wanna do this. I know how to do it, I believe in this. And as soon as I talked to you about it, I was like, this is a
guy who's gonna be great. And you were. You did a spectacular job.
- [Michael] Thank you, man. - And you really, it's
just always so impressive. What made you go, okay, I wanna do this? 'Cause a lot of great
actors, they're happy. They're good. They're like, I like
acting, I'm comfortable. I got a good life. You're not getting a pay
raise being a director. You're not working less, you know? So you have to have that
something inside you say, I wanna tell the story,
I wanna be the author. What was that like for you? - I think it was a mixture
of a few different things. You know, being on set with Ryan so much, somebody that looked like me, somebody around the same age as me, and he directed "Fruitvale," went on to do "Creed," "Black Panther." Seeing him handle a set, just the confidence that he had. And I remember one day he was like, "Mike, you should start directing. "Don't wait for the right time. "Just you got it. "You've been on set your entire life. "Just kind of go for it. "Just jump into the deep end. "Trust me, you got it." And I was like, okay,
you know what I'm saying? So that kind of planted the
seed a little bit earlier on. And then over time, I
think another element that kind of played into the
mix was just the circumstances. You know, after "Creed 2," I knew Ryan wasn't coming
back and doing "Creed 3." I was looking, trying to figure out who's gonna direct me in
this movie at this point. I know the character better than most. I know the franchise. Who's gonna be that person? And then I just kind of looked around, and I was like, "Oh, I guess it's me." You know? And I felt like that was
the perfect opportunity for me to play a character that I played two other times before. The most I've ever played at that point. And I had a clear vision of
kind of what I wanted to do. I kind of saw where I wanted Adonis Creed and the Creed family to
kind of go in this movie. But then also, I had some creative swings that I wanted to take. I really wanted to push
the envelope in the genre. I wanted to shift the
tone a little bit more. Use my love of animation and things that I love and care about and kind of infuse that into the movie. So all those things kind
of made this perfect storm for me to kind of walk into
it and do that project. (soft music) - When you started doing it, what part about it did you
feel most comfortable with and what did you kind of discover like hey, I'm actually all right at this? The best part about directing
is kind of having this idea. You're not sure if it's gonna work, and then feel like it does.
- Okay. - That's a really, I
find that very rewarding. Sometimes it doesn't. But what was that, where
were you at with that? What were you confident about and what were you kind of like, I'm gonna take a shot with
this, but I'm not sure. - I think I was very
confident with the fights because that part of the process I daydreamed about the most. I think as I was going
through "Creed 1," "Creed 2," up into "Creed 3" So the fights, I had a handle on. I knew how I wanted to really use anime, you know what I'm saying? And push the action. I mean, look, it's butt
so many jabs you can shoot and butt so many hooks you've seen throughout the Rocky franchise
and the Creed franchise. We've seen so many fights
done so many different ways, what was gonna make mine different? How are we gonna evolve
it to the next level? So that was something I
was more confident about. I was a little more hesitant
around the intimate scenes. You know, I think one-on-one scenes. All right, where am I
gonna put the camera? Where is this gonna be? And also my performance. I think directing myself was something that I called you about, and I asked you what was that like? You know, who do I lean on
to give me honest feedback? Who's gonna make sure, okay, we got it. We need to go ahead and get this coverage or we need to move on. Because, you know, time
on set is something that's always in the back of your head. You gotta move on to the next shot, move on to the next shot. So I think one of the things that I was a little hesitant about was definitely the more
intimate one-on-one scenes. - Where'd you end up coming down on? Because I hear different
things like in terms of, hey, actually directing yourself turned out to be either
easier or more difficult or, you know, and I do think
that's an interesting thing 'cause it's not really about directing, it's more about your acting. Whether or not you're the type of actor who sort of wants to go to the
monitor and check your stuff. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - I've learned like one thing or another about acting from it. I think I became a better
actor from directing sort of them seeing that point of view. - [Michael] Okay. - The thing people told me, I
asked a bunch of actors who, the same thing, who were directors, what's your advice? And the thing that all said in common was don't shortchange your own coverage. - I was just getting ready to say that. - You're gonna wanna be
out there and be a hero and shoot everybody's takes
and then get one take yourself. Okay, blah blah say line and move on. You're gonna regret it.
- Yep. - Because you're short changing this character for the movie. What did you find with that? - I think that was one of the things. I went into it, you know, I always give
my actors the option, you wanna go first, you wanna go last? Whatever makes you feel comfortable. And I took that approach
the first few days, and then when I'm looking at dailies, I'm like, man, I wish I would've spent a little bit more time on
myself, you know what I mean? And then it's like, ugh,
I wish I would've had a little bit more time just to
get a couple more variations, a couple more options. But I did enjoy taking time
and shooting the scenes that I wasn't in.
- [Ben] I know. - Oh my God. It was such a break from just the tornado. - You get to watch it and do it. I feel the same way.
- And sit behind the monitor. But one thing that you told me that I did really take the heart was, I did the first two or three takes without ever going back to the monitor. I didn't wanna look at it,
I didn't wanna do anything. I just wanted to get three out the way, and then I went back and just checked, then I checked the monitor,
checked those takes or whatever, and made my adjustments from there. Didn't want any notes from anybody. Just really wanted to
just get it up on its feet and take those first
three takes to myself. - And I think it's interesting because what I learned
was like, well, you know, you actually, that's why
I think actors tend to, when they have the ambition
to, make good directors. Particularly like you look at, well, people coming out
of various different other parts of the business
and becoming directors, actors have been pretty successful. Warren Beatty, when I said, was talking about your own coverage. He's like, I mean, you
didn't start directing to fuck up your own performance, right? (Michael laughing)
I was like, no. - It's a good point.
- You point it out. And it's like you have a
sense of what you wanna do. And you end up in the editing room, it's just you anyway. There's nobody else going. To me, what I found was, it's not about who do you
lean on tell you we got it. It's about taking that
responsibility yourself. - That's true.
- And realizing this is gonna come down to me. I'm gonna make those decisions about all these
performances, including mine. - Yep.
- And so, you know, because you get in the
editing room and go, okay, all right, well,
now I get to choose, and I get to do it myself. And so I think that that
was where I came out. And I hear you saying
you give your actors, how did you approach
working with other actors like when you go, okay, now is my chance to give this person to
create the environment for them to succeed in. What do you think worked the best? What was your instinct on that? - I think prep was the
biggest thing for me. Like really spending as much
time as I could in rehearsal and working out those kinks, finding. You know, I had a really
strong relationship with everybody in the cast. So, Phylicia, Tessa, you know, I had a couple new characters. Wood Harris I've known
since I was a kid as well. So I had a sense of
comfortability with those guys. I think with Jonathan, with Mila, my daughter who was deaf, and that language barrier and
have to learn ASL to kind of communicate with her.
- That was a great character, by the way.
- Appreciate that. - Was so good, the
performance was so good. I remember being like, "Okay, I'm gonna watch the movie now." And I was nervous like it's my, you know? I was like, "Here we go." And I got about halfway through, and I was watching with my wife, and I was, "Oh man, it's so good." I felt so happy, you know what I mean? - That makes you feel good, Ben. - So joyful, and I was like,
this movie's beautiful. It's like your heart was in it, and it was so skillfully done. And the performance was,
that thing was more evolved 'cause I felt like you really got to kind of follow your own
instincts as a performer, and they were good.
- Thanks, man. - You had this whole
fucking visual palette. Like when my first movie, I was like, we're gonna sit the camera here. We're just gonna look at the actors. That's what we're gonna do. I'm not, you know? That's what I'm confident about. And you seem to have a lot more confidence and boldness for the visual palette, for the way it was cut, the whole thing. What do you attribute
that level of confidence, and at least it looked
like to me, sophistication? - I think the team around me. I think my DP Kramer, my camera
operator Michael Heathcote, This is my third or fourth
film that I've done with them. I think they really wanted
to see me succeed as well. I think the heart was in it. They were there for the right reasons. And everybody was bought in, you know? I think everybody was
bought into the story. They were bought into the vision, so. My costume designer, Liz Wolf. This is her second time
working with her as well, her second "Creed." And everybody felt a piece of
ownership of it a little bit. And I think that went a long way when they were going the
extra mile, you know? And shooting, going
late, showing up early, just all the little in-between time that everybody has to really contribute to make a big difference
in the movie's success. I think I had that around me. (triumphant music) - [Actor] We have a new champ. (triumphant music) - I think the tech
scout was the first time I was like, oh shit. It's like, I got the entire crew in here and everybody has questions. (both laughing)
- Yeah. (indistinct) - Where we shooting, over here? The lights over that way. Okay, got electric over this way. And I'm like, oh man,
I'm just trying to like, I'm trying to see it,
I'm trying to find it. So I think building that
confidence each day, each location that we went to. I gained the momentum of like, okay, cool. Let's clear the room for a second. Let me just. I think being okay with
saying I need some time. - Yeah.
- Gimme some space real quick and let me see it, let me find it was a learned thing over time. - See, and I think that
is actually what you need to be a good director is
that exact combination. You have to have talent,
you have to have drive, you have to have a vision, yes. You also have to be able
to go, "I understand that." People talk about camera operator, your camera operator is a valuable person. Connie (indistinct) so good.
- Yep. - You have these relationships and you have to be able to know this is, if it's just my movie, it's
gonna be an underachievement. I want you to make it better,
You to make it better, you to make it better.
- Exactly, 100%. - So that's what actors, now it's like, you wanna
work with a great actor. You wanna be in scene with Denzel. So that makes the movie better. - Correct.
- You know what I mean? You're not trying to be like, "I've gotta be the best one." I'm thrilled to have all
those people do that, and then you do have to
have the confidence to go, okay, I hear you. Let me figure it out. I'm not sure. And by the way, I like your idea. I hear you. This is what I wanna do. And go like, no, there's a
time where I can't just be subject to what everyone else wants. - Exactly.
- I gotta drive it, you know? - And learning everybody's love language. 'Cause everybody, you have to
talk to everybody different. And there's different personalities. You can't. I found for me, you know, okay, Kramer, I'm gonna
talk to you like this. I know how to get the best out of you. We vibe and connect on
a certain level, okay. If I'm talking to my camera operator, oh, very shorthand. Actually less words. We actually don't have to talk a lot because it's like that ballet,
you know what I'm saying? We're finding that choreography. - I find there's people who are like, if I'm not talking to 'em, it means you're doing a great job. - Yeah.
- It's amazing. - Love that.
- You know what I mean? They always know like, if I say something something's wrong. There's those people, and
there's actors are like that too. - Exactly.
- Where some actors wanna go through it and through
it and through it. Sometimes I'm like,
where are we going this? And oh, I see. You just wanna kind of
get it out for a while. - Correct. - And some people, you know, I thought the interesting
thing you said was about how really a director's, like you alluded to, you kind of, I always assumed I show up and the director's gonna
tell me what to do. So I'm here and I'm ready, now tell me. And that really, as I
discovered, is not the job. You're there directing. You go, okay, bring what you have to it.
- Correct. - And to have that instinct
to know that ahead of time. So that's what I mean
about being a better actor. I was like, oh no, I'm gotta
show up with this movie with some choices with a thing here. - 1000%.
- Yeah. - And then nudge me back
into the right direction and align it with your vision and what you see for the overall thing. And of course there's
gonna be takes for me and takes that you need
things very specific because you have a
certain cut and a version of this performance and this scene that you wanna see together in the edit. So I got you. So I think after directing, I think looking at set and
the process totally different. It's like "Wizard of Oz." Like seeing behind-
- I was just gonna say. You really see, oh,
this is the whole thing. I see. Because you're an actor, you come out and you
have this point of view. - Yep.
- You know what I mean? And when you're kind of back there, well, that's important. This isn't. We're okay, you know? And it does allow you that
thing, the confidence, because to me, it's about relaxation. Everybody, the actors. Everybody's doing their job. Have the sense that you're believed in. You're relaxed. You can do whatever you want. We're all gonna fuck up and make mistakes. - Correct.
- It's not gonna be good. It's not about that. We're just trying to
find the one good moment. - Exactly.
- You know what I mean? That's what we're going for. 'Cause that thing of feeling like I gotta be great all the time, it doesn't let you experiment, and it doesn't make people
feel believed in in that way. It sounds like you just showed
up understanding all of that, which is good. - No, because I think
it was the prep, man. I think to your point of
shot listing, you know? To storyboarding things
that make the most sense. Things that you need the entire company to be able to really get a good visual on so they have more of an idea. They can do their homework a bit more as we're walking into
these production meetings. But you know, for me as an actor making that transition to directing, what made you wanna make
that transition at first? - For me, it came out of a different, it didn't come out of success
the way it did for you. It came out of failure, really. It came out of feeling like
I'm not happy with this. Things weren't working. I come out, I'm an actor. I'd done stuff I liked. And then I had been in situations where I felt like people going, this is the way we should do
it, that's the way we should. And kind of following that along. And then when it doesn't work, it's like, well, if I'm gonna fail, I wanna fill on my own merits. - Okay.
- My own idea. Not on what somebody, because that doesn't gimme any comfort. It's like, I listened to you, you totally go down this
road, and we hit a landmine. Well, that's not. And so I felt like, okay, for me, I need to take authority over this. And I really had like something, I think something to
prove the more I look back 'cause it just drove me
and drove me and drove me. And I was like, well, I was at a point where I was like, I don't know that I'm better than anybody. I know I can work harder than anybody. - Love that.
- I'll just be here all day. I'll just keep on going. And I had that, and some
of that I had to let go of 'cause I'm like, this is
not healthy to just be so like this now.
- To grinding it all, yeah, yeah, yeah. - I remember the first
time I was in a movie, I wasn't even ready to be
in a movie, my first movie. I was like, I can't be in it. Second movie I did it, ans it was, like you say, it was both kind of
freeing and interesting. But honest to God, I remember
'cause I was like, okay, I'm gonna have the scene
where I'm supposed to be this ex pro athlete. He's gotta be tough and all this. So we gotta see he's gotta look great. And I was watching you, I was thinking people
don't understand the level of difficulty that you add to a job. 'Cause people don't look
like that walking around. - Oh no. - You can't look like that physique. That's a built up thing that you train to and you take your sugar and carbs down and you get to this
moment and sustain that. It's so draining. You're cranky, you're depressed, you're deprived, you know? And you held onto that through that movie. It must have made it twice as hard. You're like, God damn, I
just want a fucking burger. I'm hungry.
- Donuts and burger. People that know me,
they know I love food. So I think that was one
of the benefits that, and this was the great thing. With Sylvester Stallone and Erwin Winkler and what they kind of created
with the Rocky franchise was the fight system and
how you shoot the fights. We frontloaded, you know? - Oh, so you could get
in shape and work up? Ah, that is smart. - So when you're going
through pre-production, that's really hell week 'cause you're doing all the meetings, but you're working out twice
a day, you're on the diet. It is a little, you know,
you're moody, you're cranky. You know what I'm saying? You're burning your way through, but you have to show up
the first two, three weeks is all the fights.
- And you're done. - So you get that out the way. Then okay, cool. - So you're not holding
it through shooting, holding on to cal, yeah. - And it actually works out better because you end up doing the montage last. So you've already kind of gained, because you started to eat
a little more regularly. You know what I'm saying? You start being a little bit more fuller. So by the time you're
going through the montage, you haven't lost your complete physique. But you look like you're actually starting to get in shape for
what you shot in the beginning. - People don't realize that
more ripped is actually smaller. It looks bigger on camera, looks tougher on camera
because it's defined. - IMAX camera, baby.
- You see guys in the movies like damn, this dude's really. And you see him in real
life, that's a little. - Yeah, yeah.
- That was interesting. You could put on size, doesn't necessarily look the same because the camera can't
tell the difference. - Exactly.
- You don't know if this guy's 250 or 175
if it's in proportion. And that's why that leanness, which just sucks because
it's the hardest thing to do. - Cardio and 'cause it's all food, you know what I'm saying? It's the diet and what you're eating, and that directly affects
your mood most of the time. And everybody knows that knows, but the crew and everybody,
they get to know along. - They figure it out.
- Along the process. - They'll start being like, damn, they see you at lunch and
they're like, "Okay, I see." The crew goes over and
eats lunch, you know? And they're like, "Ooh, the orange ruffy." Like the little chicken thing some broccoli and they're like, "Ooh, he's also torturing himself "making the movie."
- That's it. And always eating on set. I think eating whenever
you can get a meal, I think even as directing, you don't really have a set lunch. You're not sitting down taking 30. - Yes, exactly.
- So everything's rolling. 1000%.
- Okay. - Eating as you go. The relationship that you have with Matt, how was that like directing him? - We were so comfortable, you know somebody for so long, it's like, but the one thing that we
hadn't done, and I had like, you know, during the
course of our friendship, we had written together,
we had acted together, that's very, very comfortable and easy. What I realized is that like, oh, he hasn't even really
been in the movies I directed. So here I've made these five movies, and he hasn't seen that
kind of part of me exactly or been on the set like that.
- That's dope. - I never thought about it
until we started shooting. And as you could see, he was kind of like, "All right, what's it gonna be?" - I believe in you. - You know I was actually expecting you to try to talk me out of it. - You weren't gonna listen anyway. - Matt has worked with like, Spielberg, Scorsese, the Coen Brothers. You know, I mean, you go back to. Every director, I can't
even, Alexander Payne. You just, every single
person who's like a signi, there are fewer directors who
I consider great directors that Matt hasn't worked with, right? If he was gonna put something up there, I'd say the roster of directors is the most impressive
thing about his resume. And I was like, "Oh, okay." It was like, okay, so now in his mind, he's gonna kind of be holding me up against these other experiences. And there was the same dynamic that happens in other movies where, and you can't really get around it, which is like, yeah, I'm
your friend, I love you. If you're gonna direct this
movie, I have to trust you. And you know, you go into
all those experiences theoretically seeing the other movies and trusting them in that sense, but then it's like, how
are we gonna do this scene? How's this gonna work? And you can't expect somebody, even if they're your friend, if they love you, as an actor, this is a very sacred thing.
- 1000%. - I'm gonna put my heart into
this thing and my performance, I'm gonna be on the poster after this. And you're really holding,
I put that in your hands. That's a lot of trust, and you have to honor
that and go like, okay, then let's do it. And as we go through, and then it was a really
beautiful rewarding thing. I remember the cinematographer,
Bob Richardson, who's just a brilliant,
brilliant cinematographer, he came over to me after
like third or fourth day and he was like, "I think
Matt trusts you now." And I was like, "I think so too." (Michael laughs)
- And I felt such a satisfaction from that because you're not gonna get that free. - [Michael] No.
- You are not gonna get that from somebody's your friend or your fam. Like I love you, you're my boy, you're not gonna direct the
movie though that I'm in. You know, that's a different standard. And I felt a professional
kind of like respect there that actually meant a lot to me. - I believe in your son. I believe he's different. And I believe you might be
the only person on earth who knows it. - And we were gonna do it, I went and met the other Michael Jordan. - The other guy? - That's kind of dope at
this now two Michael Jordans. - I appreciate that.
- I did that. - The Michael Mount Rushmore a little bit. I'm up there. - That's a pretty big deal there. (Michael laughs) - My name is Marlon Brando,
I wanna be an actor. It's like, okay, well, good luck. (Michael laughs) There was one before. And when I talked to him, 'cause it was like, listen, we're not gonna fucking do
anything that you don't like. Here's the deal. This movie, he's not in it. I couldn't tell the Michael
Jordan story from inside. I can tell it from outside. What does this look like from
the outside point of view. But I was very respectful, and I was like, let me just start with if you're not down with this
happening, then fuck it. I don't need to do the
movie, you know what I mean? This is your legacy, which you've established your whole life. And had that conversation with him, and he's a very impressive, powerful guy. And what struck me about that and that meeting and making this movie, what I realized and my friends, many of whom are black African
American people who are like, you know, kind of let me know, like, hey, this is not just a basketball player. This guy's a very, very
meaningful, important cultural symbol of
greatness and excellence. - [Michael] Correct.
- That is past. You're not just making a
movie about an athlete. You are making a movie about an icon, somebody who means something. And so I took that
responsibility very seriously. - [Michael] Yep, yep.
- And then in particular, I was like, that was
like an audience of one. I was like, if Mrs. Jordan
likes the movie, I'll be happy. You know what I mean? 'Cause I knew she didn't, I was fucked. - You was toast. (laughs) - But I think, you know,
that's a extra weight to carry, which is what you talked about. Like I saw Ryan do it,
somebody who looks like me, because there are not a lot, not nearly enough black directors. And so that puts on you, I would assume, and what I saw from like, not only I be a great basketball player, but I'm gonna mean
something else to people. Because I have to like, and for you, you're gonna do something
very few people have done and become that symbol for someone else. - It's a reality, you know? I think for me, watching
Spike Lee, Harry Belafonte, Denzel Forest Whitaker, Sidney Poitier. You got these greats who've
done multiple things, not just in front of the camera, not just, they don't just
have one career path. They're very multihyphenate. And for me, being able to see
my generation Ryan Coogler directing a independent film that opened up and premiered that Cannes, in Sundance and Cannes, and then move on to an original spinoff of a Rocky franchise in the Creed, but then go do a hundred
million dollar plus film for Marvel with "Black Panther." And I was like, man, okay. He was my, you know,
idea of I can do it too. And he always reinforced that to me. So that was really important to kind of give me that
internal confidence because I think representation
is extremely important, you know what I'm saying? And not having that in certain areas. And my team and people
that are close to me, we kind of speak about that because I take what I do very seriously. I'm a student, I wanna learn,
I always wanna push my limits. I wanna see what's next
and what else can I do. What can't I achieve? Let's push it, let's do it. Getting the feedback, I
think, from the audience, the fans, people that you meet
on the street or in crossing, and people aren't really
approaching me like, "Oh, you're famous." It's like, "Oh, this role
meant something to me. "This project meant something to me." Like, oh, I'm really affecting people. Like, not just on the surface level, but maybe how they think or how they feel or how they look at other people or how they look at other subjects. And once you know that that's
a responsibility you have, a power that you have, an influence, you do approach your work with
a higher standard, you know? Not that I didn't have
a high standard already, but that added weight, that
extra added layer to it is, all right, how can I help
influence the next generation? How can I make them better? How can I feed them? How can I be an example for them? How can I not just talk about it? How can I walk in and live it every day? So that pressure I do put on myself, and it's heavy, but it's, you know, I'm put in this position for a reason. I believe we're all exactly
where we're supposed to be. So for me, it's like moving forward, I take everything that
I do very seriously. And I try to, A, do it for myself, and I think that's something
I'm trying to teach myself and learn and remind myself
throughout the process is like, Mike, you gotta live for you too. But at the same time, I
do have the responsibility of the community at large, and I wear that like a badge of honor. - Like I see it with my wife where obviously she's music star and that's a different thing too, but also that exactly what you described. People who approach her, they
see me go, "I like that movie. "You are an actor, right?" Forgetting about relative
degrees of more fame. But when they approach her, it's like, you mean something to me. I haven't seen somebody like me or from where I'm from doing what you do. Forget about this. It's like who you are and how you live in front of the world
means something to me. - I'm following very big footsteps, you know what I'm saying? And I'm just trying to do my part. This is my part of the race
that I gotta run, you know? I think my ancestors and the mentors and people that have that
have done this before me, it's just this is my part to do the work. And the art and the love
and the humanity of it and putting people together and understanding different perspectives, and that's what cinema's about. That's why I love movies so much. That's why I love storytelling because you get a chance to see life through somebody else's eyes for once and really empathize,
you know what I mean? And tell somebody else's story. And obviously there's a lot
of layers to it and politics and what movies you can make and do make and what makes money and
what doesn't make money and what's for the art, what's
for the commercial success, and that balance between
what movies you do when. And it's a, you know, I
think some black directors don't get the opportunity
to take as many swings and chances and creative chances because they are stuck in a formula that they're trying to
just get something made or do the right thing.
- Enormously. They don't get as many opportunities and not considered in the same way. You do one movie, then they go, that's the only kind of movie you can do. And all those things that
you just articulated, and it looks like juggling chainsaws. Like before you even get to work, you're navigating all of
these different ideas about and questions about what's
the right way to pursue it? And forget about how do I live my life. It's like, how do I pursue this career in an intelligent, strategic way that's also congregate with my values and also in keeping with
what I wanna project. - But now it's like, I wanna
have some fun too, you know? But all that is fun, you know? But I think you have to find your place. You gotta see things for what they are and what it is, you know? And all the same time be a trailblazer and push things forward
and evolve things, man. I think the world right now
is in a state of evolution on so many different levels, and we get a chance to, you know, we get a chance to do the fun part of that and help push things in
a positive direction, in an optimistic direction,
in a humanity way. So it's like, yeah. So anyway, I'm happy where I'm at, and I'm happy I get a chance to even have these conversations with you because it's always very insightful and reminds me of the
things that are important. - Man, it's refracted glory. You make me look so happy, dude. I love your success and listening to you, and it really is a joy, and I hope you would live
to be a thousand years old. - I appreciate it. Maybe not a a thousand, maybe 200. (Ben laughs) I'll be cool with 200. - The world needs you, man. You're doing beautiful stuff. - Appreciate it, man.
- And you're an artists across all these ways. And your art is evident
in the way you live, the way you conduct stuff,
the way you treat people, the way your performance is,
the way you direct movies, and you find a kind of, you're fashioning this beautiful
mosaic out of that life, and it's really an honor and a pleasure to get to stand next to you sometimes. - Thanks, man, appreciate that. - I appreciate you letting me in. - If me and you to work
together, who's directing who? - Oh, you direct me. That's what I, you know?
(Michael laughs) That's easy. - Easy?
- First answer, yeah. I wanna work with the
good young directors. That's what I wanna do. If I'm an actor and I had a chance to work with somebody who could pick. I'll tell you, there's
a lot more good actors than there are great directors. - Okay, okay.
- So if I'm like, you're a spectacular movie
star, you're a wonderful actor, and there's, you know, 30 of those. And there's a lot fewer of
the directors who I'm like, "God, if I get the chance, "I'm gonna work with this fucking guy "because he's really can make me better." - Man.
- And I'm being, I'll do anything for a director if I feel like at the end of the day, the movie movie's gonna
work and they got me. And that's the kind of thing that I would feel in a heartbeat. Easy.
- Yeah, that means a lot. See, I was gonna go the other way. I was gonna say I seen
more of your movies, and I'm a big fan of those. I definitely wanna be
directed by you for sure. - We'll make a swap deal.
- We'll make a swap. Let's do, let's figure it out, man. - If I can afford you though. You just get more and more
expensive all the time. - I just take out on the back end, don't worry about it.
(Ben laughs) - It's good business. Thanks, man.
- Well, man. - I appreciate you, brother.
- Of course. Yeah. Like, yeah, yeah. (upbeat music) (upbeat music continues)
