Brenda was graduating from law school Brenda is black a black female and I was like, whoa And then he I mean I'm thinking that way but I'm keep in mind I'm a high school teacher But I'm thinking they let us Go to law school and graduate from law school. And Brenda is gonna be a lawyer like yeah So from that point I started to believe I can be a lawyer Meet attorney at law Annette Eddie Callaghan. She has been practicing law in Okinawa Japan for over 25 years She is also a professor at the University of Rio cube law school in Okinawa where she lectures on introduction to American law Among her many achievements was her induction into the Southern University Law Center Hall of Fame for outstanding and dedicated service to her community profession and alma mater Hey guys, what's up, welcome to another episode of vmallon is it fast? My name is runs on today. Yes I'm still in Okinawa. Okay. Listen, I might move out this side. So today we're joined by attorney Eddie Callaghan Can you introduce yourself to the world? Yes, my name is Annette Eddie Callaghan. I'm here in Okinawa Japan moved here in 1995 So that's 25 years ago Was able to get license to practice law here in Japan and Since that time since 1995 I have lived here in Okinawa, okay How did the journey begin why Japan in the first place? Well, first of all, I used to be an Air Force jag, and that's a member of the Judge Advocate General Corps Corps of lawyers in the military one of my assignment was here in Okinawa on Kadena Air Force Base and During that time I realized there was a problem and the problem being a Lot of the local national women were here Having babies either in a marriage or out of wedlock. Okay having babies with American military guys and Once the military member assignment was over he would be gone and she would be left as a single parent That was something that was pulling on my heartstrings and I kept thinking somebody has to do something to help these ladies and So my next assignment I left Okinawa in 1993 Okay went back to the United States and my next the assignment then was to in Los Angeles and It was there that I started to call the child support offices to let them know it's like hey I think we have a problem in Okinawa and somebody need to address it and But you know, nobody Absolutely. No one of what would get involved and so I kept thinking somebody somebody but then eventually Started to turn to me and it's like why not you and so I thought hey Maybe I should so it was at that point that I quit the military and in 1995 I moved here Okay, and and then but the next hurdle was to try to get licensed to practice law in Japan and it took about a year to work through the process and the process Being a lot of red tape and when I say red tape I don't mean the red tape like we see in the United States that we think is so horrific No, the red tape here put the u.s. Red tape to shame Okay, and so went through all the red tape or whatever was able to get licensed to practice law you know in Japan set up my practice and then the next thing was How do I begin to help these women? And so the most important thing was just start? Mm-hmm. I Started to do my research and I say well maybe it has something to do with the Status of Forces Agreement okay, maybe you know this somehow I can use the Status of Forces Agreement, which is an agreement between Japan and the United States and There could be something in that document that would help and I've researched it and there was nothing and I thought well You know there used to be a lot of military troops in the Philippines. I'm sure they had the same problem So I researched the status force agreement That was at one time between the Philippines and the United States. And right now that document is a one-page Okay, that was no help. And so I said well maybe Germany, you know because again lots of troops used to be in Germany until they started closing bases down and I thought let me Contact, you know, maybe the Ministry of Justice in Germany, you know to see Whether or not they would be able to help or give me some some Guidance as to how I can be of help here in Japan so I wrote to the Ministry of Justice and and they they said hey look, you know, they Had an agreement kind of like a a bilateral agreement with 48 of the 50 states Okay, and so that's how they were doing it at that time And so they said maybe I wanted to contact the international child support section Of the Attorney General's Office in Texas, and I thought okay, I can do that So I did and then that office says hey every year in the United States There's a big conference where representatives from child support office. Is that all the 50 states come together? And And they have this big conference on handling these international cases or whatever and they said why don't you start coming and so I started to go and started to meet people from the different 50 states and talk to them about the problem we have in Okinawa and how can they help and So they were very very helpful. Okay Absolutely helpful so that's how I built the child support program that I have here in my office and It is the only child support program in Asia There is no other means of trying to get child support, you know, except you know, like through my office here Which is what I was able to set up through the National Child Support Enforcement Association or internationally internationally and so you know did that and Set up shop and I've been here, you know trying to do this and other things as well But that's the focal point of my practice because that was my main reason for coming to Okinawa was to help those ladies and one of the hurdles that recently developed was The checks that come the child support checks that come from the United States Come to Japan and of course, you know the Japanese ladies Where do they go to the Japanese bank to cash the checks? Well, the Japanese banks at least the ones here in Okinawa No longer accept u.s. Dollar checks. Oh, wow. Yes Okay, they don't so then I'm like, okay, what else do I do? And so I Had to meet with the people at the bank on the base on Kadena Explained the situation to them and they're always very accommodating. And so they say Sure, we can you know help and so we set up a plan where I can't I get the checks from the child The child support recipients the ladies and then about once a month. I go to the base and I cash all the checks and then I come back and I divvy up all the money and then we call the ladies and says hey your money is here your Money is here. So they come the one who who are in like mainland, Japan or Miyako or you know one of the outlying islands I Once I get their dollars and then we go to the money changer and we change to Japanese yen Then we go to the post office and then we send them their money that way ok So that problem was able to be resolved And another obstacle was you know, when a lot of the fathers were saying. Oh That's not my child. Oh, yeah. I was in Okinawa, but I don't know I didn't date in Japanese women or whatever So now we have a DNA situation. Okay so And I thought okay. What can we do with that? You know, how can I help and so again that? I think it was at the time it was LabCorp aur jeene screen and I collaborated or whatever and so they were able to train me send me all the training material so I could be trained as Someone who collect DNA samples and then we overnight it FedEx to the states have it tested and so the dad is taken to court or the biological father taking the court and And the judge says okay. Yeah, we got the results here You are the father and here's how much child support you have to pay So every time there have been an obstacle there have been a solution so it hasn't been I mean, it's it's been Not in a totally easy road, but it was it was and continued to be manageable Okay, were these problems pervasive by the time? Oh, yeah, and it continues to be okay You know cuz I think anywhere you got man and when you gonna have Charles 40 issues, okay? So it continues to be and not just here but in the United States as well But at least in the United States you can tap into the transport system there Because there is a child support program that's set up in the United States, but here we don't have that luxury So how has it been so far? What has the response been since you've been doing this since 1995 right when I first started in 1995 for the first? Ten years until like 2005 or whatever. I did it for free. Totally pro bono, okay I didn't charge the ladies anything office as well. Yeah, exactly. Okay Yeah, and then but you know that what child support wasn't the only thing we did, you know to keep the office afloat okay, you know I took other cases as well, you know, like divorce and and Court martials and you know issues coming up on the base discrimination cases medical malpractice stuff like that but the pro bono part mainly dealt, you know was Charles the child support program and So For the first ten years. I it was totally free service, but then the program grew to like 300 cases yes so quickly and I and I had hired a team of people and and I'm like This is the largest part of the office, but it's not bringing in any funds So then I had to start charging and of course once you start charging, you know Your numbers are going to fall off because not all the women, you know can afford, you know their the legal fees or whatever but yeah, it it continues to be and my only concern is once I leave Okinawa and at some point I will But you know once I leave who? Will take over this program who will do this because it will continue to be a problem So is it just for? local ladies and Foreign men in terms of your purview. No, it's only well. First of all in order to use the child support program in the state the non-custodial parent who is 99.9 percent of the time Has to be located in the States, okay, because that's where the child support program is, okay We don't have one out here that I can tap into I see. Okay, right? Okay, so it's only for the foreigners, right? Because I figure you know with the Japanese Japanese they can go to Japanese court and try to figure out what they're gonna do in tuition. But yeah For the US side to tap into the u.s. Part of it The guy must be in the United States what got into law what drove you to to do that? What is a sense of justice? Why not? Okay, did you find this really interesting? Growing up my mother had ten kids. Okay, right. Okay and during the summer we're out of school so what are you gonna do to keep track of ten kids when my mother had to work my stepfather had to work and So, you know, how do you keep track of ten kids? Well, we lived up the street from The courthouse. Okay, and so She would dress us up You know and again I was like in high school at the time and I still don't know Until this day why no one in the courtroom asked us Why all those kids sitting in the back of the courtroom? Well, what are they doing here? Right, and so, you know, we would go and just sit and listening to trial mom took you there No, she didn't take us she sent us. Okay. Yeah, and then and it's dead This is I guess what some way of keeping track of where her kids are it's like where you get over there in court You know whatever book and we knew to sit there and not say a word not talk not make any noise So but the thing is that's not what encouraged me to become a lawyer mhmmm that Told me that being a lawyer wasn't for me and let me explain that Because as we sat there We saw the judge was white the prosecutor white the the defense attorneys white and Defendants black okay the person in trouble and so I thought in a keep in mind I grew up in Louisiana So it was my thinking is like oh so it's like I never saw a black Prosecutor or a black judge or whatever, you know at that time And so I thought well, maybe that's a career that's not for us. Oh wow Representation I keep telling you guys. Yeah, and so fast-forward graduated from high school went to college Majored in business education to teach business subjects like typing shorthand communication skills stuff like that you know still I'm thinking, you know, I'm a teacher because you know That's kind of expected but being a lawyer no don't even think that and so I was satisfied You know being a teacher and then it you know, the assistant principal in a high school I was was saying, you know, have you thought about going to law school and I was like, no, you know law school no way and It was one of the black teachers on a faculty where I would because I was teaching high school at the time in Omaha Nebraska and she said You know, hey there's graduation going on at Creighton Creighton University and you know they have undergraduate in law school there and she says at Creighton there's a Graduation going on and a friend of mine is graduating. She says so why don't you come with me and I said, oh, okay so I went with Mary Harvey was her name and so, you know, we went to the graduation and her friend was Brenda who used to be a student of Mary's Brenda was graduating from law school Brenda is black a black female and I was like, whoa So they let us oh Right, and then he I mean I'm thinking that way but I'm keeping mind. I'm a high school teacher But I'm thinking they let us Go to law school and graduate from law school and Brenda is gonna be a lawyer Like yeah, this is the Creighton University annual commitment exercise program of the Graduation the law school graduation I attended in 1977 where Brenda Graduated from law school. This is the program So from that point I started to believe I can be a lawyer Brenda did it and it's so it's kind of like goes hand in hand with what you're doing with, you know? the black experience in Japan to show They did it. You know he did it. She did it you can do it kind of thing. And so that's what Kind of like I guess propelled me toward law school. So you saw this right and it changed your worldview when he went to the Courthouse all the time a black person was the defendant, right? Right. And so you saw this knowing what came into your mind? Did you decided you plot your routes to law school or what happened? No when I'm in the courthouse You know what? No, no Oh after I saw Brenda, yeah, then you know, it's like like I said the assistant principal was telling me and you know So I started I Don't know why but he was like constantly and he just passed over a couple of years ago Brenda just passed away a couple of years. I'm not Brenda. I'm sorry Mary but you know, he I don't know what it was and as a matter of fact he set up an appointment for Me to go meet with the Dean of the law school at Creighton, you know to talk about going to law school Yeah, and so all these people surround around me and that's what's also very important It's like, you know when you are on a certain path you have to surround yourself by positive thinking people and get rid of all the Negativity and it could be very close relatives who are in your ear with a lot of negative stuff You have to shut that down If you're going to follow that path, you have to surround yourself with those people who are going to be supporters of you We're gonna push you for who's gonna hold you accountable For whatever it is that you say you're trying to do and so yeah, so Different people started saying yeah, I I think you should go to law school. Yeah, you'd be great go to law school And then I apply for a scholarship and I got a full scholarship That paid for my entire law school education, so I didn't I mean going to law school cost me nothing It was waiting for you as I was for you exactly and so of course now I do a lot of give back You know, I'm giving back to the law school because I want to invest in those coming behind me So what was the time frame between them telling you that you know? You should go to law school too when you actually decided to go to law school Okay, I was in Nebraska let's see. I started teaching there in 75 I left about 77 1973 to tell you how old I am I Started, you know, I started hearing people sort, you know, and then the people around me friends or whatever, you know champion, you know It's like hey, you need to go to law school. So that was 1977 1978. I was in law school One year, yeah Your surgeon sounds like it was meant to be exactly That you were around things that you did your mom is sending you to the courthouse I know Graduation see that changing there. Your mindset is just like in hindsight It's like this exactly and that's why I said when you own the right path You can turn around and look and see that it wasn't all you Yeah, you can see all the people all the you know The help that you receive all the obstacles you were able to overcome the people who were put in place You know who were right there at the time they will need it How did you feel inside were you able to identify? or recognize that something was going on here or you just felt like, you know, just normal you're like okay, this I'm going after this I'm doing this or did he feel like Okay, I'm on the right path. Like I'm being later or something. It wasn't until I Was here back in 1995 and at the time I was in that living and working in that little place that My Japanese friend had printed, you know, because I needed a lease agreement right, and I was living there and it was on it was in Okinawa City and I was on living on the third floor and I had come home earlier that day and it was set up kind of like like this where This part here was parking but the sidewalk was right there, right and then traffic was right there And I you know, it's like I drove home you know with a lot of stuff in my books and whatever whatever and I'm going upstairs to the third floor and what I didn't realize that I had taken my big briefcase out of the car and Sit in the back of my car, which is right at the sidewalk my checkbook all my money and my cash money my passport everything was in that briefcase and you know, I Set it down and then I'm getting stuff out of the car. I shut the car and I lock it and I went upstairs I forgot I left the briefcase. Oh, I'm the sidewalk on the sidewalk. Okay, and So I went on nighttime came. I went to bed went to sleep woke up the next morning and I needed to get something out of my briefcase Wow, and then I was like My briefcase and so I'm looking and my briefcase is nowhere in the apartment. Mm-hmm And so I was like did I leave it? No, I took everything out of the car. Maybe I left it in a car and I came downstairs and I looked and it was still sitting there And all I could do is stand there and cry Wow Because I knew then that this was a journey I was not on by myself. Yeah. Wow, that's a fast engine service I wanted to go down. Okay, so that was when you knew that okay, this is something special. Right, right. That's right And that's when I knew that I was on the right path. It's like I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing yes, you know with all of the help and then I started to sit and then you know kind of like Re-evaluate all the things that had gone on like the lawyer in Naha, you know, I mean, you know, he says yeah the Japanese lawyer you know, who 20,000 in an account in my name Barely knew me what if I had taken that money out and then I'm going back to the states, you know kind of thing But it's just all the people that I had met along the way Where now? It was like Moo Watching a chess game and seeing everybody moved into the right place It's like getting your place is it you know, and and they were right where they needed to be when I needed them any advice that you can impart after recognizing that to other people who are watching that I Don't like something like you took away from that that you can invite to someone that might help them along their journey. Mm-hmm Something I don't know right right and I I think what I look at is like there's a quiet still voice mm-hmm that speaks and We get so busy with life that we miss those Those little signs along the way and there are signs along the way that's telling us either we're on the right path or not and There we just need to slow down and be mindful of the fact that you know, you are not alone that you know If you have a calling It's not all gonna be on you. Okay? You know, it's it's it's not gonna all be you, but just one step at a time kind of thing Just one step at a time and it'll get you there Okay, so I guess so just to put these last two pieces together one step at a time one People saw something in you as a release in law school you went. Mm-hmm And then the second one was coming to Japan. All right feeling this desire to do this thing Well, you never knew exactly how you were gonna do it what you wanted to do it, right? You took the first step exactly, right? So take the step What about someone that's in? Law school right now any advice in part like if someone is going through it and it might be like, ah, it's so tough Right law school is tough The bar exam is something that I never want to do again in life It is it I mean you have to really really be dedicated and and surround yourself with those individuals who? Support your vision, you know there to encourage you and not to say, you know It's like oh not again. You got to study again as opposed to really kind of like pushing you and saying Hey, I got your back You know you need me to do something for you Whatever get in there study study study because that's what is going to take total dedication to the cause Okay, what were some of the Rick tips because you said there were a lot of red tips initially What did you face when we were trying to get license here as a foreign lawyer? Okay, the first thing I did because I was in California at the time. Okay. And so the first thing I did I contacted the Japanese Embassy in Los Angeles and I said hey, you know, I'm thinking about going to Japan or whatever, you know, I would like to see if I can get license to practice law, you know Is it at all possible kind of thing? So they sent me a little package and then they recommended that I contact the Ministry of Justice in Tokyo and so I contacted the Ministry of Justice and says, you know you guys have a program before and lawyers practicing law in Japan and then they said Yeah, they had just started. Yeah, I just opened up the country to Geico Kojima bengoshi which is for an international lawyer and so they said But first, you know, you can't just apply you know, whatever you you have to send them your credentials like oh, you know your Undergraduate college transcript your law school transfer if you're licensed to practice law, etc Send them all that and they will determine whether or not you know, you worthy Yeah, yeah, well you're whether you're qualified to even receive the application Okay, right. So then I got all of that together and I sent it to them and And then they said oh, okay fine. So they sent me the the application which was 32 pages. Okay, and It was the one pack and it's the the legal size sheet of paper it's not like the letter size before the law were they'll go exactly and so they said You know fill these out one package was in English and the other one was in Japanese So I fill it out in English, and then I have had to have it translated On the Japanese one. Okay, and then I was able to send it to them now I'm still in California at the time because I'm trying to do this I didn't want to just move here until I knew you know they said okay good to go what kind of thing and so I said I'm gonna stay in California until I get a yes or no. Okay. All right so then you know I sent the the English and Japanese to them and then they're like, oh, okay, so Let's look at page one and that's the way the Japanese will do it You know, it's not like they said page one You want to change this page five, you know take this out, you know page six You need such a such as I know page one you you know do update this or whatever, whatever. I'm like, okay Oh I only had one error right in phase one and then so I retranslate that page get that page try I Accomplished that the English and then have the Japanese part Redone and then I send it to them and I'm thinking okay. I should get an answer soon No, then they go back old next page Look at me and they walk you through that one page at a time so then it's like, okay, so we're going through that and then this You know you need Liability insurance like professional I build a professional You know like malpractice insurance, right? And so it's professional liability insurance. And so I said, oh, okay I just contact an insurance company and I know like in the US through the Bar Association You know lawyers have like gills bar or whatever, you know where they can apply to Be covered by the professional liability insurance And so I contacted them and then and I'm licensed in Louisiana and Nebraska Okay, and so I contacted Louisiana and said hey, this is what I plan to do Can I get an insurance policy because I need to have a policy as part of the application process And so they're like, but you're not gonna be practicing in, Louisiana I said no and they said you can't write your policy So then I was okay Nebraska same thing can't write you a policy. You're not gonna be practicing in the country Yeah, so then I said well I'll just start with then looking at Japanese insurance companies and they're like what foreign Laurie cuz keep in mind All these 25 years. I am the only foreign lawyer Okinawa has ever seen. Okay. So there was nobody for me to go to to say how you guys did it and So I was like, okay fine, so Contact the insurance companies here or what and they're like no, we don't write that kind of policy So there was one in Tokyo Contacted that insurance company and they said oh We can't write you a policy now because you're not licensed to practice law yet but once you become licensed to practice law we can write to a polymer team exactly because I'm like but I need the policy in order to get licensed and they said well when you get licensed we can write you a policy and I was like, I don't believe this so then one of the insurance companies I think it was a IU or whatever in Tokyo said look if you contact a IU in Hong Kong They will write you a policy. Okay? So just contact them. So then I was like, oh, okay. There is hope so I contacted AI you and And they said oh, yeah. We'll write your policy. Send us a check for $7,500 and We'll write your policy and I say well How long is that policy good for no that works and then they said it's good for a year every year you have to pay 7,500 and I'm like, but the Japanese hasn't said yes or no yet. So if I send you $7,500 and you say no do I get my money back or whatever and they said no look you want the policy you sent us $7,500 That price no, that's crazy because now in in in Japan It's now just like 300 something dollars in here Yeah, but here I guess you know in Hong Kong may have you over a barrel it's like you want a policy You got a pig? Yes, pretty much. Right exactly. And I was like, I don't believe this so I had to write him a check And send them seven thousand five hundred so he could send me a policy and this is still just the application process And so it's like okay fine. So I overcame that hurdle. Okay, then the next hurdle, you know was like The this is Ministry of Justice asking. Um You got any money where's your money in the Japanese bank Or you know, how are you gonna take care of yourself you opening an office or whatever or house? and I said, well my money is in a US bank and And so they say well how much you have and I told them and they're like, huh? That's not enough to move to Japan cuz you know, we're talking like $30,000 that snot enough to move to Japan open a law practice know and I say but okay, so how much is enough because you know, you know I'm I Find money to kind of move around or whatever and then they're like no you Have to tell us what you have. We're not gonna tell you what we're looking for Okay, you gotta tell us what you got and we're yes or no Okay, so 30,000 is no so what am I going to do? And so I happen to be talking to a Japanese lawyer in Naha and tell him is like look You know, I did this whole the leap of faith thing. Oh because at that point I had to move to Okinawa going there. Yeah, I had to because they got to the point where they wanted a lease as part of the application process They wanted to see a lease. I Didn't have a lease. I was still living in California and then they're like no no we need to see that you have a place for your office and For you to live and so that's what you need to provide to us. So, what about a visa part? How did that part? What not yet? Okay. Okay, not yet and so they say so this is what we need to see is that you have office space and a place is live in Okinawa and so I had to contact an Okinawan friend that I had from when I was active duty on Kadena Contact the Okinawan friend and said hey, look, this is a situation Find me a place to rent Well, first of all I had to get Ministry of Justice permission to live and work in the same place Because I didn't want to have to pay rent in two different places. And so they said Minister says yeah, okay fine that work. And so I told her my Japanese friend. I said find me a place to rent I don't care what it looks like. I don't care How big or small it is or whatever reasonable get me a lease because I need to be able to show I haven't so then and and then I I gave her money to Pay the rent from January to March because I think it's surely three months They said because I started at October of the previous year the process So then I thought by March they should know something and they should tell me yes or no Because I didn't want to get into a year's lease and then they said no We're not giving you a license and then I'm stuck with a place over here. I'm paying rent Yeah, so I said, okay fine So she she sent the lease and then I made that a part of the package but then by March they still ask For stuff like, you know about the money and I was like, oh my goodness So now I can't be paying rent in California and rent here or whatever So I that's when I decided to come here, okay, okay So now I'm here and then now they're saying where is your money kind of thing? right and then so but I was I was in Naha talking to Japanese lawyer and I said hey look this is Situation. I move all the way out here took this leap of faith, but it is not working I'm gonna have to go home. Mm-hmm. And so he's like no, he says look my wife Can meet you here at my office Monday morning she will take you to the bank we will open an account and will deposit About 20,000 okay in an account in your name And we're going to take that and put that with your 30 and then see what they say. Okay, and I was like, oh Yeah, and so that's what I said Wow and so Anyway, Monday morning, I went met and then he and his wife I mean his wife and I went to the bank and she opened the account and You know took care of all the paperwork or whatever and then that the bank gave me, you know it's like a statement of the fact that I had that money in that Bank and then with my other 30 and you know had 50 or whatever and then but I asked him I said, but you know, they won't tell me What number they're looking for? What did this not enough and he said we will keep depositing until they're satisfied And I was like, oh my god Yeah Yeah, and so I was like, okay fine. So but they were satisfied with that. Okay, so that work and and then the next thing it's like We had made it through the 32 pages in 32 pages of the application And so now they says like okay now we're gonna mail you color-coded application which is the same thing same 32 pages but one is like a kind of a buff color pages and the other one was like oh Lime-green Pages that you know, I don't know why but Everything with all the corrections or whatever that I had gone through and they had taught me how to properly fill out the application So now I had to recom pledge that on the buff-colored pages and then the light green Pages order of the translation and then they said but don't mail it this time You have to come to Tokyo and present it in person. Okay Yeah, exactly And so I was like, okay now airfare was crazy The yen rate was like 70 something yen to the dollar and so an airplane fare was crazy And then they oh, and I they said bring a translator with you now up until this point they were communicating with me back and forth in English, but suddenly We're at the end of all this and then they're telling me you know It's like you you have you have to fly to Tokyo and you have to bring a translator with you And so I said, okay fine. Well, it just so happened that there is this Japanese lady who I knew From my active duty days who used to live in Okinawa but not lived in mainland, Japan So I was talking to her about this situation. I said, you know Where am I gonna find a translator? I'm gonna have to pay the person these people already looking at my dollars You know in the bank and telling me you don't have enough or whatever So I got to be careful with the money And so I said so what you know what and and she says well no Don't fly anybody from Okinawa you come don't worry about staying at a hotel You can stay at my house and then I will go with you and then I'll do my best to try and sleep And I was like cool that worked up. So and that's exactly what I did You know, I stayed at her house or whatever So we went to the Ministry of Justice together and then they looking at all my paperwork or whatever They got me signing things or whatever so I had to sign certain forms, and then they said They want to see my passport. So I showed her my passport and they said where is your visa? No Mather and I was like, but I can't get of my visa stamp through immigration until I'm Licensed, okay. Okay, right and then they said but you should not have come to Japan without a visa And I said, but I can't get a visa until I'm license and they're like no no no no, he shouldn't have come, you know, because you don't have a visa or whatever and I was like I don't believe this I've come to the end and They're telling me that no, I don't have what I need. So then they said one minute so then they went to get some real old guy from the bowels of the Ministry of Justice building or whatever and They brought him in and he spoke perfect English and he says let me get this straight You came to Japan pursuant to a treaty between the United States and Japan that says you can enter the country and Whatever he said with you mercy. Oh, yeah, I was agreeing with I was like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, that's right. And he says okay processor and then that was it so that was the last hurdle her the monkey boss came on the exactly, and I was like, okay Wow, so then and that was it for that and that so that was from October of 1994 to May of 1995. Okay. Okay, and then I had to then apply to Okay, this was min the neeshub endrin which is the Japanese Federation of Bar Association, okay so I had to come back here and then I apply to them but it wasn't it nowhere as Extensive as that Ministry of Justice dealing, okay So, you know, it was just a couple of you know She's a paper or whatever or whatever so then I had to apply To them to see if they would say yes or no, and so it took them a month from May to June and so they said yes and then The Okinawa Bar Association and here in Okinawa. I needed to have the recommendation from two japanese lawyers, who said yeah They're kind of like we accept her to be one among us. You know, as far as the Bar Association is concerned So I got mr Kalamazoo and mr. Haru Shima and then they signed and mr. Kalmus. Who was the one who did the bank transaction? Okay, and so he and mr. Hashim assigned letters of recommendation submitted that in June of 1995 and then July 26 1995. They called me and say come pick up my bengoshi pen. Okay Yes, I was like oh my god, but if if I had seen the big picture Early on I would have said there's no way I could do that by myself, but you see it was one hurdle after another It's like, you know this thing popped up Yeah, and then I was able to overcome that and it seemed as though the people that I had met in the past were all aligned To be where they needed to be when I needed them Yeah, and so Wow 25 years later Here, I am they say almost your purpose then right? exactly Exactly have you were determined because I'm like some of these things seemed insurmountable. Right? Right, but you got over it Right, right, and it was all about just you know Telling my story to different people and meat and oh I could help with that I could help with that for example, we used to have a newspaper here Japan update Newspaper and Dan Smith as a matter of fact worked for Japan. Okay, and and he was working there at that time So when I got here you know and it went through all this and then finally picked up my pen and Everything and then I could go to immigration and finally get my visa my legal services visa Until I got the visa I could not get a car Okay, you know you to register at City Hall, you know you need to have some kind of visa to be here not just as a tourist on our little 90-day visa thing and so I I didn't have a car So I was renting you know a vehicle from the base or whether I couldn't buy a car in my name Japan update the owner contacted me and says hey, you know, we understand you here you know you you're coming here to do great things in Okinawa, so What we can do is use I they would let me use their name to buy a car It would be my car and then as soon as I got all my visa paperwork and all the City Hall Paperwork in order then they would transfer the car in my name and that's exactly what they did. Okay Wow So it was you know people just reaching out, you know to help and that's why you know I wondered I'm like if I had been in Tokyo versus Okinawa if the script would have been totally different Because in mainland Japan, you know, everybody, you know, they have blinders on you know They're going where they have to go and they're not looking around to see Who needs help? That's how I view Tokyo. I could be totally wrong. Okay, but in Okinawa Everybody's willing to help You know, it's like oh, you know you need help what's going on? You tell your story Either they if they can't help they may know somebody who can So I always felt like I would be taken care of here You know coming to to Japan as a single person, you know on my own or whatever if I fell on hard times Okinawa would take care of me Wow. Okay. So what has it your experience been like, you know? Interfacing with the community in Okinawa right as a lawyer. What has that been like over the last quarter century? You know it it's not anything like what we see going on in the United States I think here in Okinawa and if I have not Experienced any discrimination at all. Okay, you know it's what you bring to the table really is what's key It's not you know so much It's like oh, what's the color of your skin or what's your background or your nationality your ethnicity or whatever? It's all about what you bring to the table. And then that's where the respect and the you know the the consideration and you Know either they gonna help or send you business or whatever is all about what you are about. Mm-hmm Okay. So what you bring to the table, right? What is it like practicing law in Japan versus? The states are they any mean like major difference that you've noticed well For me I'm spoiled here because I'm the only one okay You know and and I say going back to the states when I do return to the states I don't want to practice law. I don't want to work because I've become spoiled. Okay, it spoiled meaning that You know I call the shots as far as you know it's like if a client walk in my door with an attitude or whatever or You know saying things, you know being rude or nasty to my receptionist, they're gone I don't care how much money that or what kind of how valuable the case it is that they have they're gone They're out of here Whereas in the state's is so many lawyers. You can't afford to put clients out of your your office You know, it's like you're happy when they walk through the door kind of thing So, you know, that's one of the things where I said, I'm pretty much spoiled in in practicing law over here as opposed to practices in the States but practicing, you know, I do a lot of Issues arising on the military base. Okay, and that's on the military law. So that's that's a bit different of course from you know military law based on federal law as opposed to You know a practicing in the United States. So yes, there is a difference there. But in Japan the Japanese are kind of like behind as far as the the Development of the legal system. Okay, so to speak and so you know what you see here You're like, you know, we don't do it that way in the States anymore. I mean that's like long gone Have you brought about any change like or updated any? Laws or any procedure or anything based on like a cross cross over from the states like something that's antiquated in Japan You're like, okay, look we do it this way and then listen to your advice and maybe made some changes. No No, because you know how Japan is so entrenched in the way they do things You know and they of course you can bring about change it changed takes a long time. You can bring about change and Normally change will come in Japan if there's a push from the outside and the outside means as a foreigner Okay, you know because you know as Japanese, you know, it's like trying to bring about changes They don't want to do it because I want to just remain and I think so I think they want things to remain as it is. Okay, and so to Make any changes or be quick to make changes. It's kind of like I guess it may be in the back of their mind They're thinking you know, so are you trying to impose? You know the way things are done other places and it's like okay you are coming to change Japan kind of thing, but over time You can get things done. But like I said the push has to come from the outside Okay, what's the clientele? Like is it mostly Japanese people or foreigners? I get a pretty good mix because again lots of clients from the military base So I get a pretty good mix of that But yeah The majority of the clients though are women Japanese women or Okinawan women you moved from the states because you wanted to help them, right? Have you felt like you've done like a great job so far like you've accomplished most of what you came here to do Yes, okay. Yes Absolutely. Where do you see yourself in the next five years? What's the ambition going forward retired sitting by my swimming pool in my backyard? In Japan no in the United States. Okay, so you plan to go back? Yes. Okay. Yes, okay What are you gonna miss the most like when you eventually do that? definitely being able to walk my dog if I you know for whatever reason can't sleep at night and Want to walk my dog at midnight I can do that Not a problem In Japan, I can you know and walk around the neighborhood and everybody knows you and you know There's always that smile taxi drivers, you know always waving you know the the Recycle truck knows my dog by name Okay, you know and so those things you know it's like you want to go where everybody knows your name kind of like the the television show chairs, but Yeah, I would definitely miss that because you know back in the states I just envisioned myself, you know, you're in your house you're locked in your house You know innocent people are locked up and it's the guilty ones are running around what has your experience been like in mainland? Japan versus Okinawa How do you feel now in mainland, Japan? I you know again if I'm thinking if my first experience with Japan would have been mainland, Japan I probably would not have wanted to move to Japan. Okay? Simply because to me yeah, I wouldn't have felt like if I fell on hard times they would take care of me I know support right exactly because everybody and that, you know, I understand It's like space is a premium, you know, so everybody doing their own thing, you know Whatever and they want their own space and they're not looking around and see what's going on You know what other people anybody needed and whatever Yes, exactly, and so so my experience if I if my first experience had been with mainland, Japan I probably would not have felt safe to live in Japan because it's like you know, who's gonna help me kind of thing. Yeah I guess because I have a family there for me. I guess maybe I have that support system, right? But how long were you in Japan? prior to coming back to Open your office. I was here from 90 to 93 from May of 1992 June July of 1993. Okay, and then I went to California, okay So you've spent almost like cumulative almost 30 years, right? Right, right 28 Exactly. Okay. Yeah, and then I was in California then I left California in March of 95 and moved here. Mm-hmm, and then I've been here since any advice for anyone maybe I don't know one of the chances but if someone is watching In Japan like an advice for them Okay what they need to understand first of all And this is Paul so part of that process of you have to apply to apply. Okay, and Just know that if you're gonna leave the states to practice law in Japan one of the requirements Doing the application process is that you have to show that you were engaged in the practice of law in your home country For the past three years when I came along it was five years. Okay, so it now they're they have reduced it So that brought about a change So now it's the past three years you were engaged in an active practice of law new country So make sure you you do that when I went through the process it was around fifty thousand Okay, right and you know that they looked at and it's like, okay. All right. Now you can come kind of thing I don't know what it is. Now. That was fifty thousand twenty-five years ago. So just know that and also, if you're going to be unless you're going to be at one of the you know, like Baker & McKenzie or you know The big law offices in Tokyo if you say oh I'm going there to start my own law practice or whatever Understand that as a foreign lawyer. You cannot take any work away from the Japanese lawyer So you have to have your own little niche carved out. Okay, as to how are you gonna make a living now? If you like with me I could take care of a lot of the issues on the military base because I was a former Jag So, you know with court-martials discrimination cases You know stuff like that Medical malpractice cases, then I could make money to stay open. Keep my doors open but I Think there have been two lawyers who have tried since I been here and then after a couple of months, you know They had to close their doors because they didn't have that military experience and see that's my fallback You know And definitely I need it to have something else going on because I was doing pro bono work for these ladies Vicki said yes for ten years So yes, so then anybody who's looking at coming over to Japan to say, you know, I want to go practice law Just understand that you have to have some nish carved out Where you will not be taking any work away from Japanese will you and it was a pleasure? Thank you so much for sharing your story. I appreciate it. No Problems where people I'm inspired guys that are watching and thank you so much for watching if you enjoyed this video please Give it a big thumbs up and remember to subscribe to this channel for weekly videos on the best experience across the globe until next time Bye for now You You
