Behringer X32 Digital vs Analog Metering & Output Levels (Public)

all right i'm Dave Rat and this is the first of  several videos i don't know how many i'm going   to do comparing contrasting and taking a general  look at the behringer x32 versus the midas m32   i'm gonna dive into the two consoles where  you know there's a lot i love looking at   dispelling rumors and testing things  out and seeing if they're true   and there's a lot of chatter out there  about the differences between the consoles   i want to find out what's real and what's not  and also i have a personal interest in it in that   people are touring coming through a lot of  the festivals and shows that we do as a sound   company rat sound with m32s primarily but x32s as  well and we've run into some challenges with um   cat5 lengths the length of cat5e or  cat grade cable that's run typically   our snakes front of house snakes are 100 meters  and that works with a lot of the digital formats   and sometimes we're running into  issues where the m32 to the stage box   is having trouble communicating and same thing  with the x32 so i'm going to use these tests to   find the cables that work best and  what the maximum lengths i can run them   and we'll implement that into our front of  house snake so that rat sound is able to   supply cables that we know work at 100 meters if  we're all successful which i believe i will be and   also try and determine what the issues are what  the challenges are with some of the other cables   that don't work over 80 meters or shorter lengths  cool this is a brand new x32 i bought for the   adventure here and a friend of mine angel's  going to loan me an m32 i'll get next week and   we'll start we'll look at that and  start plugging them into each other   let's see one of the rumors i heard was that the  one of the differences between the m32 and x32   is the connectors on the back that the m32  utilizes nitric connectors on all the xlrs   throughout and the x32 does not and yes i was able  to confirm that there are neutrik connectors on   the four pin lamp connector and on the ethercons  on the x32 but all of the xlrs across are not   they are they have a logo look similar to a  neutral but it's not a neutral connector and you   can tell that by the metal tab doesn't have the  neutrik N on it so there's one little difference   that may definitely has an impact on the cost  differentials the neutrik do cost more and i   know this because sound tools uses all nitric  connectors we're one of the largest purchasers   of nitric in north america for the sound tools  products and yeah we use them we really like them   okay so let's get started what i've got here is  the x32 of course i've got another small behringer   why not compare a behringer to a behringer i've  got a little behringer xenyx x-e-n-y-x 1204 It's a little six input or so mixer i've got this  wonderful fluke tone generator synthesizer here   and it's very accurate i can precision  click and set various levels and tones   i've got it set at 500 hertz right now  and then i've got this beautiful Dorrough meter i'll take this camera back and  look at the fluke there's the fluke   there's the behringer and there's the x32 and  there is the Dorrough meter now the Dorrough meter   is absolutely wonderful it's got a very wide  range and there's an led for every single db   all the way up and i can't read it right now  let's see what it says it goes from minus 25   to plus 14 in 1db led increments and i've  got a rotary switch here which adjusts the   input level in 1 db increments and  everything's accurate and precise   and then a level switch so it'll go from plus  20 to minus 40. let's go ahead and start so the   first thing i'm going to do is i'm going to send  this 500 hertz tone i've got it set with the gain   knob on the x 32 and i've got the gain set at  0 db plus minus 0 unit d or whatever that is   and i've got the output of the tone generator set  at 1.3 volts kind of an arbitrary voltage but um   now i will bring the fader up let's do it here  and i'll bring the fader up to exactly 0 db and the test that we're going to be doing today  is we're going to look at we're going to dispel or address the concept that  the x32 has a lower output than   an analog console and also look at where unity  gain is and where the metering is on an x32   versus an analog console for reference point what  are the maximum output levels and what is the   metering for unity so now i've set the fader  at zero i've got the gain at zero it's bus   directly to left and right at which point i'll  also set the fader exactly at zero and i'm not   going to do this with a scope today to keep things  simple we'll just do this off of the clip lights very gently i'll try and get this exactly to zero  there we go now the fader is reading exactly zero   so now we're zero on the end zero on the fader  zero on the out unity gain all the way through and   we are looking at our Dorrough meter here which  is set in the one degree increment right at zero   and the meter is reading plus four so um unity  gain all the way through has got up +4 db out   i won't get into all those db com  explanations because they confuse me   as well but what i will talk about is let's  look at the metering so with the gain at 0 db   the meter is at minus 18. so that's that minus 18  db fs or whatever which is the unity gain for the   digital console you read about there's a minus  18 on the meter and the faders are zero goes all   the way to the main out and it goes up here and  it's at minus 21. uh why that is i don't know but that's just the way it is at this point i'll  have to look into that later so 0 db all the way   through it shows minus 21 on the out and it shows  plus 4 db now let's go ahead and use this baseline   and look at the analog console so that's showing  up on this other meter here and what i will do is   i will set the fader visually since i don't have  a digital readout exactly as close as i can get   it approximate exactly approximately a zero and i  will set the output fader exactly approximately at   zero and then i will bring the gain up until  it is exactly approximately the same as the   um x32 so i'll get this up to plus  four db so now the digital console   and the analog console have are set with  their faders at zero the output fader   input faders are zero and the gain knobs  are set to 0 db on the digital console   and it's i don't have a perfect precision  so we'll set it where it calibrates to it   so here's something interesting with these two  boards calibrated together and such the output   is identical on both consoles the fader that means  the meter on the analog console is reading minus   seven so the minus and the output on the digital  console is reading minus 21. so we have an offset   there that's interesting let's go ahead and do  something a little different here let's bring   the output of the digital console up to this  minus 18. oh so it was just one click so it   probably was there on the digital console i've  just barely touched it that's at -18 and now we're   reading plus four still so the digital console was  minus 18 is correct uh we're just a metering so   slightly off which corresponds to -7 on the analog  console um let's take the analog console i'm going   to bring the gain up on the analog console until  it gets up to zero on the meter so now the analog   console is zero and the digital console is at -18  which is its digital zero which is a minus 18 dbs   and now let's look at the output differential  the analog console is putting out   plus 10 and the digital console is putting out  plus four so with bulls at their nominal metering   there's six db more output on this  little behringer digi analog console um   fair enough um so if we were mixing and doing  everything by the book and mixing on the digital   console so that we were running right around  that minus 18 mark and maybe peeking over a   little bit doing the same thing on the analog  console you would have 6 db more output on this   analog console that's a considerable  level it's um four times the power out   and a noticeable level difference but let's  find out where these things clip so now what   i'm going to do is i'm going to bring the analog  console all the way up until i see the clip light and we'll do i'll do this on the scope later  if this is incongruent with the clip lights   off or whatever so i get a clip that just barely  lit on the analog console and i'm going to do   the same thing using faders just like i did  with the analog console on the digital console   and i'm going to bring this up  to its clip which is right there cool and now our meters are pegged so what  i'm gonna do is i'm gonna drop the level of   the meter down until one of these gets down to  zero well i'll go to i set the meter at plus 20.   so the meter set at plus 20 um the digital  console is showing plus one so i'm seeing   about a maximum output on the digital  console at plus 21 and on the analog console   i'm seeing plus five in addition to plus 20 so  i'm seeing a maximum output of about plus 25. um   so plus 21 plus 25 that's saying that all  things being equal pushing both consoles to clip this little analog console's got 4 db more output  before it clips than the digital console um   based on the clip lights alone so this is  the visual and using the clip lights alone   is important because this is what you're mixing  to this is the visual aspect and this is a cheap   little console but it's got four more outputs  but this is also there's a cheap big console so   um just kind of uh apples to apples here or  i don't know apples to oranges um cool so   let's summarize really quick the um zero db point  on an analog console corresponds to the minus 18   part of the meter metering on the digital console  those do line up when those are lined up the x32   puts out 6 db less output than the analog console  so it's lower so you'd actually have to push this   60b harder which means you're going to run a run  if you want to run the same as analog console   or you're switching over you're going to run  this at -12 and you'd run this around zero then   when you get all the way up to where you're  clipping this x32 is going to clip 4 db   before the behringer at least by the clip  lights there's going to be 4 db less output   on the behringer than there will be on this  behringer uh behringer digital than there   will be on this behringer analog um so app puts a  little soft not um the end of the world but also   something to know and could be useful um when  switching over uh what i would probably do   if i was switching from an analog console or if  i was uh used to mixing on an analog console or   just implementing uh this x32 i would add four  to six db gain stage following this console   somewhere else down the line to make up gains  so that if i added 6 db that means this minus   18 point would correspond to the zero point that  i'm useful used to and everything would line up   if there's negative ramifications from noise  floors and stuff maybe i'll look into that   but there's a starting point  and the first of several videos   uh just a heads up other videos i'm going to do  on this um visual differentials uh you know like   the neutrik connector versus the non-neutrik or  off-brand anything i can see that's um different   uh preamp overload i'm gonna see where the preamps  overload on an m32 versus an x32 i'm going to   listen to and make it so we can all hear over the  video the sound of the digital overload of this   analog overload of those preamps are the midas  preamps different how different do they sound   than the non-midas preamps on the x32 um do  they have more headroom on one versus the other   i'm going to try nulling i'm going to try taking  the same signal and running it into two channels   turning it up and get that null in order to hear  that preamp but i'm also going to try it between   the two consoles so i'll run the same signal into  an x32 and an m32 polarity reverse one sum them   together maybe on an analog console and we'll  listen to an x32 nulling itself an m32 nulling   itself and x32 versus an m32 knowing each other  so we can hear the differences or any differences   that occur uh we can try that down channel too  we can try like channel one nulling channel 32   to see if there's differentials regard  regarding where you're plugged into the board   cable length like i talked about i'm going to  look at cable length i'll get 100 meter cables   of various types see which ones work which ones  don't and then some extensions maybe a 10 20 30   40 and 50 meter extensions and then i'll apply  those same extensions to multiple cables and   we'll find out where those various cables stop  working and see which ones give us the most   length there which one you know it help us weed  out the weak ones there uh what else i'll talk   about cable what those possible issues are i've  heard all kinds of information regarding what   whether they need to be shielded or not shielded  the shells need to be shielded not shielded um pvc   versus polyurethane cable versus rubber  cable static electricity concerns and finally summing buses i want to look at something bus  i want to take the same signal and run it into   multiple channels and sum them together and then  maybe a single channel and take those two things   and know those apart and see if there's any math  errors with the summing busses and if there is um   on either console if they're the same or different  all right super nerdy stuff um also let me know   other tests you want me to do i've got some great  responses so far and i'll try and cover it cool

Channel: Dave Rat

Views: 12,535

Keywords: Dave Rat, Pro Audio, Rat Sound., Mixing Tips, Pro Audio Mixing, Pro Sound, Live Sound, SoundTools, Rat Sound Systems, Audio Engineer, Sound Engineer

Id: gHJoLzw-ZqI

Length: 18min 6sec (1086 seconds)

Published: Sat Nov 06 2021