Hi, I'm Brent Wilson. I'm the director, co-writer, and co-producer of Brian
Wilson: Long Promised Road. Brian just threw away the rulebook.
Just took you out of where you were, and took you to another place. There was no greater world
created in rock and roll than the Beach Boys. The level of musicianship,
I don't think anybody's touched it yet. To dream up these textures that never existed
before. That's why people say Brian's a genius. You know, the rooftop is down. The story begins. The beauty of it carries with it a sense
of joyfulness, even in the pain of living. You know, there's something going
on with Brian Wilson. There's no hiding that this man is troubled,
trying to escape something. And the pressure that comes with that, you know, the pressure to continue to be the person
that people think you are supposed to be. The idea of doing an interview makes
Brian nervous. And this is kind of where things got difficult for you, huh? Yeah. What was going on? I was having mental problems. Yeah, yeah. So, we'll often ask if we can
just take a drive and listen to some music. So, this was all where the house was, right here? Yeah. We can get out... I want to get out. I just want to look... There it is! X marks the spot. There it is! Look! The fact that he's still here and making
music, that's a miracle, isn't it? I don't know how you do that. One, two, three... Yeah. I got this terrible feeling in
my chest, you know? I'm nervous. You got this. That must have
been a really exciting time. It was. It was a trip. This is Factual America. We're brought to you
by Alamo Pictures, an Austin and London based production company making documentaries about
America for international audiences. I'm your host, Matthew Sherwood. Each week, I watch a hit
documentary and then talk with the filmmakers and their subjects. This week, it is my pleasure
to welcome back award winning documentary filmmaker Brent Wilson, the director, co-producer,
and writer of Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road. Brian Wilson was the co-founder of the seminal
60s rock group, The Beach Boys. As the leader and creative genius behind the band's many hits,
Brian Wilson has influenced generations of pop stars. But don't take my word for it. Watch the
interviews with Bruce Springsteen, Elton John, Taylor Hawkins, and other pop royalty. But what
makes this film special are the moments Brent has captured with Brian Wilson, and Rolling Stone
journalist Jason Fine, as they go on a journey, both literal and figurative through Brian's old
stomping grounds and memories, which include over a half a century of battling mental illness.
Stay tuned and learn how Brent was able to bring a new angle to a rock legend, all the while
exploring what it means to be human. Brent, welcome back to Factual America. How have things
been with you? Have you had a good pandemic? [Laughter] Thank you, Matthew.
It's really great to be back. I am a big fan of you guys program. I
think I've heard them all since our... Oh no! ... last interview. Yeah, I'm a big fan. So,
it's great to be back. Thank you very much. Well, that's amazing! Appreciate the feedback.
I think you and my mom are the only ones, but that's great. And you and RJ Cutler
are the only repeat guests, so far. So, that puts RJ in rarefied
company indeed, doesn't it? I'll take that, very much so. Absolutely.
RJ's an Incredible filmmaker. I remember the one that you guys did on Belushi. And
it was excellent. Yeah, it was excellent. Interestingly, as I thought of Belushi a few times
watching your film, which is for our listeners, the film's Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road. Came
out last year. Premiered at Tribeca. Grand Jury Prize winner at Nashville Film Festival. So, you
had the theatrical release in the US in November, I guess, and in January here in
the UK, and probably worldwide. And I gather it's on-demand on various streaming
services. So, congratulations, what a great film. You must be so pleased at how this has all turned
out. We did talk about it briefly last time round. We did, we did because the film kind of came out
of Streetlight Harmonies a little bit - the film that we were talking about - was kind of born in
that and, no, we are - after such a long journey and a difficult film to make, and a passion
project for sure as all documentaries really are, actually, they're all kind of all passion
projects. But this one in particular, you know, I just put my heart and soul into and so, it's
really rewarding to see it being received well and to have its theatrical release and to be
seen and received internationally. So, yeah, it's been a long promised road on this end and it's
lovely to finally have it out there and be seen. Well, if you're listening to our episodes on a
regular basis, you know what the first question's going to be, I think. It's tried and true but it
gets us started. So, for our audience, so, what is Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road really all
about? Give us a bit of a synopsis of the film. Absolutely. This is a very different, and
I would say intimate and very personal look into the life of Brian Wilson of the Beach
Boys. And Brian Wilson, as most people know, even if they're not familiar with his
background know that he's lived a very enigmatic life and a very traumatic life. And even
if they know only the biggest hits - Surfing USA, California Girls, Good Vibrations - know
that he's made some remarkable music, but equal to his music has been his life
and his story. And this film is a really personal journey into Brian's life with an unusual
approach that we ended up taking trying to - to try to separate Brian the myth, and Brian the
legend, from Brian the person and Brian the man. Glad you put it that way, because you've had great
reviews, although obviously like anything, there's always those one or two naysayers who I won't
mention. I won't even mention... what's that? It's like, how do you get, like, I'll never
understand how you can get just like one or two guys, you know, one or two people
who're just like, No, I don't get it. There's this bi-op, the other biopics are a lot
better. You know, it's like, you know, this is like a - I'll say it for listeners who want to
go on the Wikipedia page, because, you know, you don't learn anything more than you
wouldn't get out of a Wikipedia article, you know, what's the, I mean, what film
were they watching, is what I ask. I mean, not to blow smoke or anything, it was just, you
know, I never look at the - I never actually look up reviews, usually. But I watched it and
I just kind of Googled it, I was like, what? There's always just one or two, but we are
- we're really, I'm really so - because, you know, I really took a risk with the way that
we made the film. So, I didn't know if the film was going to work, you know, critically or with
fans, because it is such an unusual approach. And, you know, I remember the night before
Tribeca, you know, I told my wife, I was like, you know, I see it, I feel it. You know, I know
that it's working in my heart, but I'm, you know, I'm too close at this point. I really don't know
if fans or critics are going to kind of understand what we're trying to do here. And so, it was
really beautifully received. So, I was so grateful that the critics and the fans have actually
tapped into this different approach that we took. Well, maybe let's take that even a little bit
further: what were you trying - what are you trying to do here? If we just be very explicit,
and then also, and what are you showing that maybe his fans, and even those who aren't that familiar
with him, will not have seen or heard before? Sure, you know, Brian is famously anti-interview.
He just hates to be interviewed. And if anybody's ever seen him on a television interview show or
heard him on the radio or seen a YouTube clip, you can just tell how much he hates it and how
uncomfortable he is. And it's just impossible to get a real answer out of him in a traditional
interview setting. And I think, you know, part of that is, you know, he's been asked
questions since he was, you know, 19 years old, you know, Brian's 80 and - almost, he'll be
80 in June - and, you know, he's been asked, you know - he had his first hit at 20, I think
20, so, you know, that's a, you know, that's 60 years of interviews. He just doesn't feel
comfortable sitting down, you know, under lights, and wearing a microphone. He really has an
adverse reaction to wearing a microphone. So, it's just really hard to get an honest, deep,
reflective answer out of Brian in an interview. But that was my goal going in. I thought, you
know, that's what I've got to try to do. That's my job as a filmmaker. If I can't get an answer out
of this guy that opens up and reveals who he is, then I'm failing. And so, that was our
goal going in - was if I can just somehow, someway have Brian reveal to the audience,
and to us, who he is as a person, then we've accomplished our goals.
So, that was the goal going in. And so, one thing I was going to ask you, I'll
ask it now, is, I guess it's no coincidence that one of these opening scenes, which
I just loved was, you ask him, you know, he's just been on a big tour. He's in his 70s,
yet he's doing more tours than he's ever done. A hundred something shows in a year, whatever.
You say, How do you do it? And he just, I mean, I think literally just says, it's in my head, goes
to my fingers, and it goes out the speaker, and you say, can you explain it? And he says, No. And
that's it. And I can just picture your shoulders drooping and your head hanging, like, how the hell
am I gonna make a film? Was that one of the first things you filmed with him? And, you know, that's
why you put it up front and center, isn't it? That's exactly it, Matthew, that's exactly -
that scene is up front to try to just give a little bit of a taste to the audience of
what it's like to try to interview Brian, just in case you didn't know how difficult it was
for Brian, is like, here's just a small, little idea of what it's like. And that was actually
my final attempt to interview him. I had tried to interview him a few other times. The first time
we tried to interview him, it was just audio only, and it went really poorly. And I thought,
well, that's okay, I'm nervous, he's nervous, we'll - you know, I'll be okay. I tried
an interview the second time, where we went to Capitol Records - and the scene's not
in the film - but we went to Capitol Records, and I put him in a piano, and we surrounded
him with some friends and some band members. And they asked the questions, and I tried that.
And, you know, it went a little better, a smidge better, but he just kept looking at his watch, you
know, it was one of those things, like, you know, he'd answer their questions in a friendly
way. But I still wasn't getting there. And then as you said, I went the third time. And, you
know, what you see at the beginning of the film, and that's in his house, that's up in his music
room. You know, it's his home. I thought, Oh, he's gonna feel a little more comfortable here.
And that interview was 15 minutes of Yes. No. No. I don't know how. It was like, I was getting beat
up by Mike Tyson. And I was just like, I - this is it. My career is over. I'll never work
again. Made a couple of nice movies and... Might need to sell the house. I don't know. I wonder if I can get a, you know, can
I operate a cash register now? What do I do? I don't - you know, I have no skills.
What does a documentary filmmaker apply for as a job? I can't sell shoes. What am
I gonna do? So, I thought I was done. Yeah. So, how did you get beyond that? I
mean, I think having seen it, I know. But how did that process work? Because you're stuck.
Because you wanted to make this film. We can talk more about how that access was lined up and
why you are making it now, but, you're stuck here. You're not getting anywhere. You don't
have a film on your hands. What happens next? Sure. I had a - after that third time where
I just, yeah, just getting beat up, I talked to Jean Sievers, Brian's manager, long time
publicist, and she had suggested that I talk to Jason Fine. Jason Fine was editor of Rolling Stone
magazine. And Jason had interviewed Brian numerous times over the last, you know, over the previous
15, 20 years or so. And they had become friends. And Jean thought that maybe Jason could have
some advice. You know, he could give me some tips on how to interview Brian. But before we did our
phone call, I went back and re-read all of Jason's articles. And so, she set up the conference
call. Before that call, I went back and read all of his articles. And there was one article
in particular in Rolling Stone. It was called Brian Wilson's Better Days. And in that article,
Jason describes driving around LA and then they go to the movies to see the Wrecking Crew movie, a
lot of sushi, and they go get a massage together. And just, you know, and they're just kind of
cruising around LA. And I thought, You know what, that's a great movie. You know, Brian Wilson
toured around LA, it's his home, he's defined this city. You know, he, you know, it's his vision, his
dream of LA that helped build LA. And he was one of the cornerstones of the California dream. So,
I thought, that's the film I'd like to see. So, I got on the phone with Jason, and Jason talked
about his process, how he gets in the car with Brian, and they drive around and sometimes they'll
drive for hours and Brian doesn't say anything. But he never pressures him. And, you know,
sometimes, you know, to get a single article, it can take weeks and weeks of, you know,
of trips out here from New York to LA to drive around with Brian. And then at the
end of the phone call, he said, Look, you know, I love Brian and he goes, You know, I'd love to
see this film get made. So, he made the mistake of saying, I'll do anything I can do to - is
there anything I can do to help just let me know. Yeah. And I was like, that was the opening I needed.
And I say, Well, I've got this crazy idea. I was like, why don't we put you on camera?
And let's rig up a car with cameras. And let's have you and Brian drive around LA,
visit the places that meant the most to Brian and his life. And he said, Okay, let's
give it a try. And that's the film we made. Yeah. And did that - I mean, obviously the
biggest challenge is interviewing. And that's partly what - there's many themes in this movie,
and one of the themes is how - trying to going about interviewing Brian Wilson, but it's, I
mean, besides that challenge, I mean, what is, I imagine it's not the easiest thing to make a
doc based on just putting cameras in a car and letting them roll. I mean, you had no
idea what you were getting, did you? Totally. I had no clue at all, and it's all
very, you know, Brian's very random in the way he thinks; he's not - he doesn't think in a linear
fashion. And, you know, so he's not going to start at the beginning of his life, and, you know, take
us up through, and as Jason predicted, there were long stretches, where Brian wouldn't say anything.
And then, you know, we ended up with 70 hours of footage of them in the car. And one of the things
that I didn't want to do is, I didn't want to, I didn't want to infer anything on Brian,
as far as an agenda, as far as what we wanted to talk about. If Brian wanted to
talk about something, we talked about it. If he didn't, we didn't. I didn't want to tell
him to wear the same clothes to match continuity. You know, I didn't want to say, you know, come
on the radio - we had a follow vehicle, I didn't want to come on the radio and say, Hey, Jason,
you know, when he was answering that question, before we were stopped, now we're moving, can
you ask him again, I didn't want to do any of that at all, which when we got in the edit bay
made it a nightmare. Not only to make that work, but just to find the story and to find the
thread. And what I discovered was with our editor, Hector Lopez, we spent nine months
editing the film, is that it became an emotional journey. And that was the moments we
were looking for. And those were the moments that were - if Brian revealed himself in any way, if
Brian was emotional in any way, or offered any kind of clarity on something in any way, those
were the moments that we were going to use, and we were just going to try to forego and
forget about a traditional narrative structure, you know, traditional three act structure,
which is what I believe in as a filmmaker. We were just going to forego that, and hope that
that emotional thread will pull us all the way through to the end of the film. And that's
why I was saying, I think at the beginning, I was so nervous about how the film would be
received, because it's not a traditionally told film, and it's not a traditionally structured
film. And so, I was just hopeful that people would want to come along for that emotional
journey. And I gotta say, Brian opened up in ways that I never imagined but following
in that vehicle, I had my doubts every day. Indeed, and I guess - I mean, you're talking about
someone who's been tearing up structures and doing things his own way for his whole life you might
as well - the doc might as well be as well. That's a great point, Matthew; I never
thought about that. You're right, his songs have never - yeah, they don't
follow traditional structures either, do they. I mean, you've got pop royalty on there talking
about it. And, you know, how he just threw everything, all the rules, out the window and
made the new rules for the rest - everyone who came behind. I mean, let's talk a little bit
more about those - I mean, okay, so, people it's not Driving Miss Daisy, necessarily. it's
not, you know, we're not just - it's a little, it's much more - exciting is not the word - it's
certainly much more poignant than it sounds, like, two guys just driving around in a car. I mean,
this is - what you capture is quite amazing. You've talked about the intimacy, you've got this
- but you've - this is where all the themes start coming out. You've got this friendship that
he has with Jason. So, it's a buddy movie. It's a road picture, in a way. It goes into
the heartbreaks, the highs and lows of life. That one reviewer who we will not give any mention
to but talked about monosyllabic answers, but he says like a thousand words
with his face. It's amazing... Thank you. ... you know? ... that was one of the things that I was hoping
audiences would see because I was seeing it, you know, I saw where we just set on his face.
I saw the emotions, I saw the answers in his eyes and in his face, and you just take it
on faith that the audience will as well. But I think you're right, Matthew, I think, you
know, he says so much with his eyes. And he says so much with his face that, you know, the
answers can be, you know, monosyllabic or short, but there is so much in them when he says them.
And when you see him saying them, and in the context of what they're talking about, you know,
when he talks about his brothers' passing away, and he just says, I love them. You know,
when he talks about Dennis passing away, and he says, I really love him, that may
only be three or four words, but my God, it just rips your gut out when he says it. And the
way he says it, and then the emotion on his face, because you can see the hurt, and you can see
the pain. And I think you can tell that he's never said that to his brother, you know, he
never got a chance to say to Carl and Dennis, I love you, and you're a great producer. And to
hear him say, you know, I miss them. You know, it may be three words, but for me, it was heart
breaking to see him say those three words. And plenty of us can wax poetic till
the cows come home and not say anything. Absolutely. That's a great quote.
He says more with three words and three notes than, yeah, most people can say... Well, Indeed. I mean,
getting back to this. I mean, you know, this, as you talked about, he's
famously difficult to interview. And, well, at least how others have tried interviewing him.
But, you know, he's - let's talk about what he's battling and dealing with? You know, I know,
I guess it's pretty well known, but I think for some reason, I wasn't quite aware, it's how
much his mental health has really defined him. And he's literally battling demons. What is Brian
Wilson - he's got this, what, schizoaffective disorder? So, what does that mean in practice?
And how does that affect his day-to-day? Yeah. No, that's a great point, Matthew, it's -
and that's one of the points I wanted to make in the film is that I wanted people to understand
that this is a daily battle for Brian Wilson, right? This is not something that goes
away. It's not something that's, you know, you take a pill and you're - it solved or it
flares up or anything like this, it's a daily battle for Brian Wilson. And he does - he has a
schizoaffective disorder where he hears voices in his head. And those voices are always saying,
you know, evil things, bad things: Brian, we're going to murder you. I'm going to kill you.
Brian, this is the Devil. I'm taking you to hell. Just horrible things. These are the voices that
he hears in his head. And he deals with that every single day and has, you know, for his entire
adult life, and maybe even before we're not sure, except doctors aren't sure quite when it came in
effect for him. But it is a daily battle for him. And he has his good days and he has his bad
days. You know, I've witnessed the bad days, I've witnessed the good days. You know, his wife has
just told me - Melinda - she said that, you know, when he stares off into the corners, is
usually when he's hearing the voices; you know, he'll start to kind of look away and look up
into the almost in the corners of his head. And that's when he's hearing the voices. And
it's, you know, the medications that he's on, he's, you know, of course, he, you know, suffers
from depression and Seasonal Affective Disorder, he suffers from that. You know, so the winters
are really tough for Brian. So, it's just a daily, daily battle, and those medications that he's on,
you know, those medications have to be monitored constantly, and they have to be tweaked, you know,
gone on too long, then they become less effective. You make a change, and it has a side effect and
it's a miracle and I think Taylor Hawkins says that - from the Foo Fighters - which is, you know,
Taylor Hawkins is this crazy rock and roll drummer and, you know, he's just the guy
you want to have at a party, right? But he is just one of the most insightful guys
in the world. And he says in the film, he goes, You know, it's really a miracle that he's
here. And a miracle that he's out performing. And it is. And the miracle is Brian's courage,
you know, the courage that Brian Wilson has every day, to get out of bed and function at the
level that he functions. It's truly a miracle. And I hope fans come away with that. I hope
fans can witness and see just a tiny sample of what it's like to walk in Brian's shoes for
just, you know, just for an hour and a half. Yeah, I think you have a lot of
great interviews in the doc, but, I think it's also Taylor Hawkins this Gonzo
drummer, if you will, who's even the one that says, Well, you know, creative types are
often most sensitive and more susceptible to drugs and things like that, you know,
and that came from Taylor, you know... Yes. ... I think, that got to a point - I mean, one thing that struck me, when you become Brian
Wilson, or any of these figures like this, and we've had other docs that talk about people
become - they're almost become our vision of them; our view of them is shaped by however they've
been covered in the media all these years. And so, and I think one thing that comes out, and
that's to follow on with what Taylor says, is that you have this whole section of the
doc that talks about, you know, how he is such - not just a courageous person,
but he just exudes fortitude, to have gone through everything he's been through, and to this day,
still plugging away. You know, it's quite amazing. It really is, and he doesn't have to, you know.
You know, Brian is very safe in his legacy. He doesn't need the money. You know, he, you know, he
doesn't have to go out there. But he wants to go out there. And he finds the - he finds, I think,
life in living. And he finds life in continuing. And he's the last Wilson right, you know, his
parents are gone, his two younger brothers are gone. You know, his uncles and aunts are all gone.
He's the last Wilson of his generation. And I, you know, just my interpretation, but I think he takes
- he sees a responsibility to keep going, and he sees a responsibility to continue. And, I do; I
find strength in Brian's story. I think to myself, If I'm having a bad day, it's like, you know, what
would Brian do? You know, he'd get out of bed. And we talked to a lot of fans. I interviewed a
lot of fans. Unfortunately, they didn't make the film. There's so many of these things when you
do these docs, you're just trying to figure out what the movie is. And we did interview a lot of
amazing fans. And that was a really common theme, I think, with fans that were - there were people
that love the music, but there were people that, I think, really also identify with Brian's story.
And Brian's story is a mental health story. And there's a lot of fans out there that said,
those kinds of those same things that, you know, if Brian Wilson can get out there and
perform, then you know what, I can get up and go to my job, today. And that's an incredible,
incredible tribute to Brian Wilson's life. And from what I could tell, it's not like
he goes on about it. He doesn't, like, he doesn't wear it on his sleeve, or anything.
He's just like, you got to get on with things. Yes, yeah. He just deals with
it. He faces those fears. And he just will sit quietly and think about
it and then go in and do it. You know. I think that's a good point for us
to give our listeners a break. We'll be right back with Brent Wilson, the
director, co-producer, and writer of Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road.
Premiered at Tribeca Film Festival in June of last year, and now has already
been out on theatrical release in the US late last year and early this one, here in the UK,
and it's on-demand on various streaming services. If you enjoy Factual America,
check out the MovieMaker podcast. That's all one word: MovieMaker. Where
our friends at moviemaker.com interview everyone from filmmakers just breaking in, to
A-Listers like David Fincher and Edgar Wright, about their moviemaking secrets and behind the
scenes tricks of the trade. They go deep and let the guests speak uninterrupted, to get you the
most film insight. Now back to Factual America. Welcome back to Factual America. I'm here with
award winning filmmaker Brent Wilson, the director of Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road. It's already
been out on theatrical release in the US late last year, and also here in the UK in January, and
you can find it on-demand on various streaming services. We were talking about what Brian
has to go through, his day-to-day battles. I mean, it may seem like the obvious, but is
music a release for him? And the reason I ask that is that, it seems, you know, he doesn't seem
to battle it as much on stage, you know? Is that his way of communicating? He's not the - he's
never been the most communicative person, as we know. But he, there's something about, we kind of
talked about that scene already: It's in my head, it goes to the fingers, it goes out the speaker,
but that is the way he talks to us, isn't it? Absolutely. And I think it is that simple for
him, right? And then just kind of watching Brian, you know, and spending so much time
with him and getting to know him. You know, my analogy kind of came to be, I
think music is to Brian, what oxygen is to me. You know, I have to have, you know what I mean?
You know, without oxygen, I'm not breathing, and I'm not living. And I just think it's that
important to Brian. And, you know, when he's in the car, you know, the radio's on, you know; when
he's at home, the radio is on; when he's backstage at the concerts, you know, Brian is always the
first to arrive: right, he loves to be on the road. He, you know, he'll show up two hours before
soundcheck and, you know, he sits in a big chair beside the stage, he doesn't go to his dressing
room; he sits in a big leather chair, which you see little clips of it in the film. And he sits
in this big leather chair beside the stage, just right behind the curtain. And he listens to music,
and he watches the band set up, and he watches the crew, and he's listening to music. And you go
to a Brian Wilson show there's walk-in music, you know; so, it's just always there with him.
And I do, I think it's just oxygen for him. I mean, speaking of which, I mean, you know, if we
think about what the prevailing narrative is about Brian Wilson, you know, obviously, we know the
Beach Boys' California sound, which you obviously have touched on and then Pet Sounds, the seminal
album, the album that is considered one of the best of all time. But, it strikes me in watching
your film, that he's more of a genius than we realize. I think it was Don Was that compares
him with Mozart, and it strikes, you know, and there's a scene where he keeps talking about
he wants to make a rock album, and I'm thinking he's made loads of rock albums. But he's more
Mozart and Gershwin than he is rock in some ways. Yeah, yeah, no; it's so funny because I can't,
you know, I was thinking the same thing, it's like he keeps talking about wanting to make
a rock album. I'm like, my god, Brian, you know... You defined the rock album! Yeah, yeah. I never quite understood that,
either. But, you know, Brian's always been just a little - to go back a bit, just a little
bit. You know, Brian is really self-conscious about his music. You know, because he grew up,
obviously, you know, with an abusive father. And he grew up playing sports. And he grew up with
two brothers; you know, I grew up with my brother, it's a miracle we didn't kill each
other. And I just had one brother. So, two brothers, I'm sure one of us
would have died. So, Brian really grew up, and then he also grew up in the 50s - a very rough
and tumble time when men were men, right? And I, you know, I think Brian's really self-conscious of
sometimes how soft his music is, and it's not like rock and roll. And he's really self-conscious
of that. And almost ashamed, I think, of this, these feelings that he, you know, that he evokes,
right? These emotions that he evokes are so soft and so gentle. I think there's a shame that
probably stems from his father, you know, that, you know, men don't say, I love you, and
men don't express their emotions and, you know, have a drink and go about your day. And so, I
do, I think it's fascinating that he, you know, he, you know, he was always very self-conscious
of his falsetto as well, like, you know, guys didn't want him, you know, they always
wanted him to sing falsetto, and he wouldn't, he didn't want to sing falsetto because it wasn't
manly. But anyway, back to your point, I think that is certainly a part of it. I treated Brian -
I agree, I think Brian is an artist of a Mozart, of a Picasso, of a Monet, of a Hemingway. And, as
crazy as it sounds, or as arrogant as it sounds. I treated the film that way. I thought to myself,
how valuable would 70 hours of interviews be of Monet, with Monet, or 70 hours with Ernest
Hemingway, of audio recordings; how valuable would that be? I'm not talking, you know, financially,
but just how valuable would that be to the world to have Monet talking for 70 hours about his
music? And that's the way I approached the film is because I think Brian is on that level of an
artist and obviously so does Elton John and Bruce Springsteen and a few others. So, I feel like
I'm in pretty good company in feeling that way. I think you are. And I think in terms of, I mean,
one thing I want to say, I've got three boys, I cannot imagine them - that's one thing that
struck me, is he talks about three boys, they sat in the back seat, and they would harmonize,
I mean, there's no way I would ever get my sons to do something like that. I mean, maybe I don't
threaten them enough like his dad did, I don't know. I don't give them a whack on the side of
their head or anything. But, you know, this thing, you know, I think probably, would it be unfair to
say that in some people's minds that, you know, his creative genius was all in his youth, and
it was in the 60s. And that's, and believe me, that's a catalog anyone could rest the rest of
their lives on, but he is a creative whirlwind to this day. And that's something else you you
show. You show him in the studio, he is still this stickler for perfection. How many times they
had to keep playing those first couple of bars there because they weren't doing it just exactly
right. And it struck me as something you said - we had you on before for Streetlight Harmonies,
and that was the Doo-Wop doc that you did, and I asked you about what separates those
artists from contemporary artists and you said, Well, how many of our contemporary artists
are going to be working into their 70s? Well, here we are; here you've got another
one. You've got Brian Wilson and, I'll be honest with you, I listened to Pet Sounds again
yesterday, I've listened to it before, I'm not the biggest fan of Pet Sounds, but I listened to
Smile, had never listened to Smile before: I was blown away. You know, that is, and I can
see why that shows up on people's top - however, now we got to go now 400, 500 albums or
100, whatever it is, but it's on there; an album you should listen to before you die, that
kind of stuff. He is still - I mean, and I guess this is that mind that's the creative - the mind
that's also got all the demons, also is just a mind that probably none of us could even fathom or
imagine what's playing around in that head of his. It was important for me to try to
capture that. That was one of my goals, was I wanted to see Brian Wilson in
his element. And I wanted to discover if it was there like that. I mean, and we do use
some new tracks. You know, there's a beautiful song that Brian uses called Southern California.
That's a stunning track that was on his Lucky Old Son album. Another song called Midnight's Another
Day that I would encourage people to listen to, that are just stunning works that,
you know, Brian's done in the last, you know, 10, 12 years that are just amazing work,
particularly that Lucky Old Son album - is really stunning. But I wanted to try as a fan, and as
a filmmaker I wanted to see Brian in the studio, and I wanted to see what that process was
like, and that scene you're talking about, we go into the studio, and that scene that you see
that's happening pretty much in real time. I did very, very little trimming down of that scene. And
so, he goes in. He's nervous. Yeah, I didn't know that. I didn't know how nervous he was because I
was at the studio when Jason and Brian pulled up. And he has that moment in the parking lot where he
tells Jason that he's scared. And is just a daily part of Brian Wilson's life. And here is Brian
going into the studio for the one millionth time, you know, with a band that he's been with on
the road for a thousand shows, to his favorite studio with his engineers, and he's still scared,
right? That speaks volumes, I thought, to what it's like to be Brian Wilson for a day, because
here he is doing what he's done his whole life, and he's still scared. But he says, you know, I'm
going to go in, and he goes in. And he goes in, Matthew, and he sits down at that piano. And
he starts to work on that song Honeycomb, and it's just incredible to watch. And
he just starts to dish out those parts and correct them, and he hears it in his head.
And he's just trying to explain it to them and it was incredible to watch, and I was standing -
I was behind the camera operator - and I was kind of taking all that in. And I thought to myself,
My God, this is exactly what it was like in 1964 when he was doing God Only Knows - he did not do
it any differently. Here he is at 77 years old, 78, wherever it was when we shot that and he's
still doing that exact same thing and it was just inspiring to watch and I started to tear up,
you know, I started, so, I did that, you know, that manly thing we were talking about where you
don't want to let - you know, guys don't cry, kind of thing, so, I kind of did one of these, you
know, [inaudible]. You don't want anybody see you, you're like, you're rubbing your eye, you
don't want them to see you wipe away the tears. As I did that, I looked over and I saw three
other people crying. Jason Fine was tearing up, David Calcano, our graphics designer
and art director, David was crying. And a couple of minutes later, he left the studio
and that afternoon, that night when we done, I said, Dude, I can't believe you left the studio
right in the middle of that moment. And he goes, Right? I was crying so hard, I thought I was
going to destroy the take. I thought I was going to ruin the take. So, we all knew
as fans, we were witnessing something. It's a miracle. It really just is. It's
incredible to watch. So, I, you know, just to see Brian work on that song, that was
worth the price of admission, right there. Yeah, I think - and is there, I mean, there's
a soundtrack that comes out with this? Yes. There's a soundtrack that's out and
Honeycomb is on there. And all the other songs Brian recorded for that session. And
what we did was I wanted to have Brian record, as he did in 64. A lot of recording nowadays, you
know, it's all obviously on Pro Tools, and they generally record, you know, one instrument at
a time, you know, they have the drummer record; if you want a French horn or a saxophone,
you pull it down off the computer and all of that. Artists are never in the room,
anymore. And I find that really sad. I understand having - being a producer on this film,
I understand why they do it that way. It's very expensive to have that big room with,
you know, I think Brian's band is ten guys, twelve guys, have 10, 12 guys at one time in hotels,
all recording at once: very, very expensive. But I wanted to record that and our producers
were kind enough to indulge me on that. And I thought to myself, I just want to see what
that's like, I want to see what that energy is. And I think we capture that. I think we see Brian,
you know, doing that. And so, we released, we put out a soundtrack - we didn't plan to put out a
soundtrack but I was like, Look, it'd be crazy not to release these, you know, six songs that
Brian recorded over those three or four days, out. And so, those songs are out on
the soundtrack now, along with some unreleased songs that are in the film. And
then the new song Right Where I Belong, that he did with Jim James of My Morning
Jacket that we made the Oscar shortlist on. We didn't make the Oscar nomination but
Brian did go to the Oscar shortlist. So, he was on a final 12 songs. Yeah, yeah. So,
we made, yeah, we made the cut from 130 to 12. And then last week they had the Oscar nominations
come out, and we didn't make the top five but it's still a remarkable song that Jim and
Brian did. I'm really proud of that version. Indeed, and I found out something new.
Jim and I share the same birthday. Yeah, he's in April. He's a few years younger
than me, but he's, uh, but yeah. Doing a little, you know, we spare no expense here at
Factual America with our research, but yeah, doing the Google search, I discovered - not many
people have my birthday, but he's one of them. Is that right? And you're going to take those, right? You
gotta take 'em when you can get them right? Exactly. Exactly. Well, congratulations on that.
And congratulations on what I, you know, I highly recommend. I mean, I say, you know, most of the
films we have on here, almost all, I have to say all the films we have on here are great and worth
a watch, but I do highly recommend this one. I found it extremely poignant. And that says
someone who's - I've always appreciated what Brian Wilson's done and the Beach
Boys, but I wouldn't necessarily have described myself as a fan, or a huge
fan, of theirs. And there's these, you know, generational issues and, you know, because
Brian's the exact same age as my mom, practically, but the thing is - but, you know, I, you know,
I have a much better appreciation for him and what he's going through and what he has gone
through, and also just sort of, it's kind of like almost the meaning of life. You know, watching
this film, kind of, that's this is life, its ups and downs. And we see it through the
eyes and of - in the sounds of Brian Wilson... That's beautifully put,
Matthew, thank you for that. ... well the caffeine's
finally kicked in, I think. How do you follow up this magnum opus?
You're gonna make another music doc? I'd love to make another music doc. Jason and I -
l Ioved working with Jason. And so we're talking about a few projects that we're trying to get off
the ground, and then about a project coming out later this summer. It's a completely different
world, it's in the sports world, and maybe we can come back and talk to you about that at some
point. I think they're gonna announce it here, hopefully, in the next week or two, but it's a
completely different kind of project. But it's an epic sports film, sports documentary. And
then, yeah, I would love to continue to work with Jason and explore these artists, because, you
know, they do live remarkable lives. And they do, they do give us so much joy. I think
that's one of the things that I love about making the music documentaries, or at least
my approach to documentaries, because I also did this with Streetlight Harmonies, and with this
current doc, and I did it with a documentary that I did on World War Two veterans, it's that
you want to return the favor, right? You know, Brian Wilson has given me so much joy, and so much
love in my own life, you know, I want to be able to return that favor in just some small, tiny way.
And that's the way I try to approach my films. Yeah, I think, well, first of all, I do
hope you make another one with Jason. Though, I don't know who you're going to
- because he's got some great articles over the years, but they're usually now,
unfortunately, with people who've now passed away. So, you're not going to get Merle Haggard
back, you're not going to get Johnny Cash. So, I don't know. But I know you probably
can't say who might be in the works, but I do hope you do. Because I thought that
was a - certainly, I can't imagine anyone else. I can't mention them just purely
for not jinxing them. I just don't want to jinx them. That's always the whole trick. Exactly! It's not a secret. It's just
you don't want to jinx them. Yeah, exactly. No, I perfectly understand.
Which is why I'm not gonna press you on which sport? What do you know? Is it basketball?
Is it baseball? What are we talking here? But we look forward to that. And we'd love
to have you on and make it a three-peat. Maybe we'll all get back into a theater
and, yeah, go see some movies, right? You know, maybe I'll come to the
States we can actually do this face-to-face. Wouldn't that be amazing. That would be fantastic. I'd love to. Yeah,
yeah. Come to LA and yeah, beer's on me. Well, there, you see. That's your mistake. That's
like Jason saying doing whatever you let me know, whatever you need, I'll help you out. Once
you offer me a beer, I'm probably coming. Alright, well, I just want to thank Brent
Wilson again, for coming on. Director of Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road out on, well,
just look for it. Google it. It's out on various streaming services, and it may still be in
a theater or cinema near you. Thanks again. Thank you, Matthew. It's a wonderful
program. And I'm going to keep listening. Well, I appreciate that. I think if - I mean
this, I didn't give you the feedback that you solicited. I didn't ever get
my teenagers to watch this movie, but you didn't need their feedback. The
thing is, if you ever have anything else you, or suggestions, or things you think
we could do differently, let us know. Yeah, you have great taste in all of your
films. You know which one I really enjoyed, too, was - oh, gone blank on the writer's
name. It was the playwright from Texas. Oh, Horton Foote. Yes. Horton Foote. That was beautiful. Lovely. And as you can appreciate that is Anne, Anne Rapp who did the film. I
mean, she'd no film background at all. None. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, well, she was - a film in that she was in the industry but
she, you know, she was not a director. Like a script supervisor, right? Script supervisor... Yes, yeah. ... for a lot of famous directors and Tender
Mercies and others. And she decided - and it's, again, you talked about these being passion... Passion projects, yes. I mean, that one was a - because I - how long did this one last for you? Was
this - take about five... Five years, yeah yeah, yeah.
Five years. Yeah, yeah. Hers was over ten years. Yeah, no - I drew so much
inspiration from her story. It was lovely to hear that, to hear her
story, yeah. I really enjoyed that one. Yeah. I'm glad to hear that because I think we
put that as one of our favorites for that year. And I think it also was - yeah, I think it shows,
you know, it doesn't have to be a big name celeb. I mean, he's known in his circles, but, you know, it can be about a - I think he
was about ninety years old at the time. And you can follow him around and you can make a
lovely film out of it that resonates with people. Absolutely. Exactly. It doesn't have to be, yeah, a $3 million
documentary, you know, with Ron Howard as the director or Peter Jackson, you know, you don't, it
doesn't have to be that. And I thought it was just a wonderful film and a wonderful - her story for
telling that film and how she got it. It was just wonderful. It was really inspiring. And I think
you're 100% right. I hope people who follow docs, and want to be doc filmmakers, I hope they heard
that episode, because that's what they should be doing. Not, you know, not trying to do the next
Get Back. You know, that's not going to happen, anymore, you know. You know, doing the Get Back
is, you know, like - akin now to directing the next Star Wars movie. There's one or two guys are
going to do those films and the rest is going to have to be done in a very, in a manner in which
she did it. It was a lovely story. Really lovely. I mean, since we're on this track, and the
camera's still rolling, proverbially, I think, what were the strugg - I mean, you must
have struggled selling this to people. I mean, in terms of, you know, what, well, I got two guys in a car driving around for, we
got 70 hours of film, let's - you know. It was a really, it was very frustrating time,
because you're right, we had a different, very different kind of film, even though we
have Bruce Springsteen, you know, Elton John, you know, Taylor Hawkins from the Foo Fighters,
Nick Jonas from Jonas Brothers, you know, Nick Jonas has 40 million Instagram followers, right?
If he put up a movie of him clipping his toenails, it's going to be the highest rated film of the
day, right. And we yet, still, you know, we, at the heart of it, it was this very intimate and
personal film with these guys in a car. And it was difficult to try to get people to understand
and I think, and believe, audiences are going to respond to this, because it wasn't traditional.
And so, it was a tough path. And then, of course, probably the biggest factor was Covid.
You know, we were set to premiere at Tribeca in 2019, and Tribeca was going to be in April, I
think, March or April, and we were two weeks away; I was out buying a new suit, and I got the phone
call that Tribeca had been cancelled. And, you know, nobody knew what was going to happen, what
was going to happen, how it was going to happen, how long this was going to happen. And what we
discovered, Matthew, was that a lot of buyers tried to really take advantage of filmmakers
during that time - of independent filmmakers of that time - where they were going to lowball
and say, Okay, they're sitting on this content, they're panicked, you know, we're not
panicked. So, we're gonna buy low. And so, we got a lot of really low, shitty offers,
that, you know, that, you know, I would rather, you know, we don't need to talk about who they
were, but there was, yeah, they thought, you know, we're gonna go buy Coming to America 2, you know,
we're gonna go buy Greyhound, the Tom Hanks film, we're going go buy all these big films, and
we're going to spend hundreds of millions of dollars on them. But these independent filmmakers,
we're going to offer them pennies on the dollar, because they're panicked. And so, that went on
for quite a while. And there was an unfortunate time for independent filmmakers. But we were
fortunate in that our producers, Tim Headington, Theresa Page, we were in a position where
they didn't have to take those offers, and we could kind of wait this out and wait for
theatrical to come back around and wait for, you know, we could just wait this out. And
we did, we're really happy with our partners, and both domestically and internationally.
And we feel really fortunate. But I know, as a documentary filmmaker, it was a frustrating
time. Because of the situation that Covid brought. So, hopefully, we're out of that, and we're
through that now, and we'll get back to a little bit of normalcy, and we can get back to
some in person festivals, you know, get back to people. That was the other thing that was really
frustrating. We turned down a lot of festivals, because we didn't want to do in person. You know,
I just didn't feel like the film. I just don't think the film should have been seen on a laptop.
You know, I wanted it to have the opportunity to be seen in a theater and heard in a theater. And
I just didn't want somebody watching it on their phone and hearing God Only Knows broken down
and multi tracks on an iPhone or an iPad. So, we were fortunate we turned down a lot of the in
person festivals, and we were able to wait for Tribeca to do their in person get outdoors. And
they were wonderful. And then we did Nashville at that point, which was opening back up, and
then, yeah, we were able to have our partners release it domestic and internationally in
theaters where it can be heard and seen. Yes. And I guess we should give a shout out
to Universal, obviously, and also say - yeah, that's great. I'm so glad that worked out
for you, and I must say, what strikes me as a independent filmmaker, hope always springs
eternal. That whole period you're talking about - the number of people who were saying,
Look, they're going to be starved for content, so, they're going to pay us even, it's going
to be better. But it was the exact opposite. It was the exact opposite. Yeah, they were the
veterans. They were the experts. And they knew that, yeah, yeah. We were going to
be panicked, and we were sitting on it. And like, Oh, my God, we've got to
get this out. Yeah, it was eye opening. It was really, very frustrating, very
eye opening. A very eye opening time. Well, glad it worked out for you in the end. Absolutely. And it worked out for all of us who get to see
this, and thank you so much, and yes, anytime, love to have you back, look forward to whatever
the next doc is, whether it's that sports one that you can't talk about, or that music one you
can't talk about, either one. Brent, good luck, and thanks again. And we'll hopefully see you
sooner than another, you know, a year and a half. Absolutely. I'd love to be the first
three-peat. Yeah, that's my goal, now. There you go. See, that's what's
on your wall, on your whiteboard. That's right. It's on my dream
board now. Three-peat! [Laughter] Alright, take care. Thank you, Brent. Thank you, Matthew. Take care. You too. Yes, I just want to thank again,
award winning filmmaker Brent Wilson, the director of Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road.
Had a theatrical release in November in the US, and in January here in the UK, and worldwide,
and is now on-demand on various streaming services. So, Brent, thanks again for coming on to
Factual America, again. I'd like to give a shout out to Sam and Joe Graves at Innersound Audio in
Escrick, England in deepest, darkest Yorkshire. A big thanks to Nevena Paunovic, podcast manager
at Alamo Pictures, who ensures we continue getting great guests onto the show. And finally, a big
thanks to our listeners. As always, we love to hear from you. So, please keep sending us feedback
and episode ideas. You can reach out to us on YouTube, social media, or directly by going to
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