- We don't trust somebody until we feel like they understand us. You know, leaders come in and persuade. We try to get people to trust them by, this is a great deal, we can do this, and they'll get persuasive about it. But the head is not going
to believe something until the deeper aspects
of the person feel like, well, I don't know about
what you're selling yet until you know, what do I need? (gentle music) - Well, Dr. Cloud, I've
been waiting a long time to have you on the podcast. It's a great honor to have you with us. - Well, Reverend, I'm glad to be here. If you go to the doctor out,
I'm going to the Reverend out. - All right, Henry, glad
to have you on the podcast. I am gonna hold up your
book for our audience because I got to read the manuscript before this book came out. And I knew when I was reading it in the very rough draft form that it was gonna be
very special and helpful. The title is "Trust." The subtitle is "When to Give It. When to Withhold It. How to Earn It. And How to Fix It When It Gets Broken." This is a book that will
be very, very, very helpful to our podcast community. If you've never read any
of Henry's books before, I don't know where you are. I think you've written what, 40 books, maybe 20 million copies sold. They likely would have
heard of "Boundaries," which is kind of a bestseller. "Integrity," many other ones. But I'm so thankful for
your work on "Trust" and I wanna ask you a bunch
of questions about this, but in the spirit of
the Leadership Podcast, I'm curious about your leadership journey. You consult a lot of leaders now. Was there a time in your life when you recognized that you
had the gift of leadership, you'd led others, or you had a unique
insight into leadership? - I remember the day I found, I knew I wasn't one when I was, you know, the kids got old enough, you gotta get them into the van in time to go to school. You know, I never really, I started out as a clinician,
clinical psychology, and went knocking on
doors, looking for a job. My first job was in a
leadership consulting firm. So from day one, I've been
in the field of leadership, walking alongside leaders and their teams and cultures and all that. And I never thought of myself as a leader, sort of like a tour player. I'm kind of a caddy. I carry their bag. But then a few years into
it, I started a company. I wanted to do a faith-based
psychiatric hospital and did one and that one worked. And all of a sudden it grew and we were in 40 different
markets in the Western States with treatment centers. And all of a sudden I went, yikes, I'm leading a bunch of people. And that's when I was looking at it from the other side of the fence. So I guess sometime around then. - So what's interesting to me- - A lot easier to tell people
how to do it than to do it. - Well, here's what's
interesting is what I see in you, I see in a lot of
leaders and you are truly one of the greatest
leadership minds that I know. And you help more of the top leaders than just about anybody that I know. And yet you are hesitant to
say that you're a leader. And even in your language, you said, I started them at the clinic
and then I had 40 cities and some were like you just
look up one day, uh-oh. But that doesn't just happen, right? You don't go from one to 40 without having some leadership
insight, some intuition. You're the expert.
- Skin and knees. - Yes, exactly. So I'm going to ask
you this as the expert, why is it that some leaders are hesitant to call themselves leaders? - You know, I think
that there are broadly, you find a couple of different groups. There are people that
aspire to be leaders. And there are people that do stuff and all of a sudden they're
creating some kind of value and there's stuff going on around. Then they find themselves
in leadership roles. And then they find out that they've got a whole second career that
they never planned on. You know, somebody is good at marketing or finance or technology
and they're just good at it and they're creating value. And all of a sudden they find
themselves leading a team or a department and now
they've got a second career and they have to get into
this thing called leadership. And I think, you know, a lot of us, it wasn't like politicians
who are running for office. You're just trying to do stuff. And so probably a lot of people
just never really thought that was their job until they found out. You better be aware that it
is, and you do have to study. And one of the reasons
that, you know, I love GLN and the whole world of
leadership development is literally people at any level quickly better find out they do have two careers. They got whatever vertical
they're in or field they're in or, you know, organization or industry, but they are also in
the field of leadership. And it's a discipline,
you got to study it. - It is. And so I want to just
reiterate what you said in case somebody wasn't
paying close attention, but if you're good at anything and you start to create and add value, then you're going to
need additional people. And so you may be an artist
or you may be a marketer or you may be an inventor,
but if you're good at it, then at some point you have
to be good at leadership or your lack of leadership
becomes the lead to any kind of progress. - You will never scale
anything by yourself. Maybe an infection, but... - Right. And you consult some of the
best leaders in the world. Would you say that everyone
can grow in their leadership? Yeah, I'd say absolutely. I mean, if they're conscious and, you know, have their wits about them. I do think it's like anything else, Craig. I think that, you know,
there's this question, are leaders born or they're made? I don't know, is Tiger Woods born or made? Obviously, you know, look at the talent. - A little bit of both. - But as he says, you got
to work it out in the dirt. And it really, really
requires a lot of work and you can become... I mean, one little snippet can change the way somebody walks into an executive team meeting and they got that sentence in their head, oh my gosh, I got to think about that. I never thought about that before. You can learn. But the other thing is that I would say, you know, behavior change neurologically, it takes wiring to do that. So they've got to be able
to be in some process like building a muscle. You know, you wouldn't
know anything about that, but you got to work at it. Just kidding. Are we, you know, it's like
the muscle man over here. - It's all, it's camera tricks. - You've got to have the awareness, right? You have to take the workshops, you got to read the books and all that. But like, you know, I'm
a competitive golfer and I can watch a video on a golf swing, but then you got to go on the range. And then you've got to
have focused attention on what you just learned about something, bringing it up in real time. And then there's got to
be a deliberate practice of the new behavior in a process with all sorts of relational feedback and support along the way. That builds new circuitry in the brain and information doesn't do it alone, but it's hard to do it
without the information. So it's a process. - Right. And you said it earlier, and then you kind of answered
what I was going to ask next, but you said you have to study it. And so I was going to ask you what appears to be an obvious question, but how do you study it? And you started to kind of even go there that you've got to,
it's not just knowledge, but it's a real hands-on
application of the knowledge. And then you stretch your
muscles and you renew your mind. You're not going to do this well without other great people around you. That seems to be a key ingredient. So if you're going to go
through and you're coaching me, I'm a new leader and say, I really want in the
next year to 18 months, I want to throw as much weight behind growing in my leadership as I can. What would you say are the elements that are going to help me
propel forward the fastest? - Well, I think it's probably good. You know, I have a little
bit of a map in mind of what you're trying to build. So if you're trying to grow as a leader, and if you are just starting out, I wrote a book called
"Integrity and a Metaphor," and there is about a- - Fantastic book, by
the way, must read, yes. - So when a boat goes across an ocean, it leaves a wake behind it on two sides. A leader leaves a wake behind them. When they move through a company,
a department, an industry, they leave a wake behind them. Now they either look like Katrina and leave a wake of destruction, or they look like great leaders and leave a great wake behind them. But there's two sides to that wake. One side is the results. Did the mission get accomplished? Do we have anything to show for it? Do we gain market share? Do we gain, you know, in the church world, reach more people, feed
more homeless people, whatever it is. Leaders are judged by their results. But if you have a one-sided
wake, you're in trouble, because the other side of
the wake is the relationships and the people. If they're left out, bobbing up, down, bleeding in the water like shark bait, that's going to be a
short-lived, you know, ride. And so I would have them
start with some sort of, some sort of systematic
way of looking at that. You know, start with,
pick one person above you, one peer, and one person
that reports to you, and go sit down and have lunch and say, what's it like to be on
the other side of me? Am I accomplishing what you need from me? And what's it like to work with me? And ask them to be as honest as they can. Now that's going to give us
some subject matter stuff to go. Then we can kind of decide a path. But I would say this, that the mistake that
a lot of leaders make is they think that leadership
is only a discipline of expertise and concepts and principles that they need to know. But you're the one that's got
to go out there and do it. You're the equipment
that's got to pull it off. So as much or more time
has got to be spent on your personal growth in some key areas so you can execute all those things you're learning in leadership. You know, you just wrote a great book on the way that all of our
thinking and a path to change. Well, somebody learns that they got to go cast vision, right? So now I got to be a vision caster. So I stand up in front of
the board or the organization and I get up and I'll send
this little voice to my head that says, well, who are you? You think they're going to believe you? I mean, you were one of them last week. Well, if you hadn't dealt
with the voices in your head, then you can read all the
leadership books in the world, but you can't pull the
trigger on what you got to do. Or what about measuring results and holding people accountable? What if you're conflict avoidant? So leaders can have all the leadership, you know, acumen and knowledge, but if they can't execute it because of our own
interpersonal and personal, you know, just dings and
wounds and all of that, then it's going to not do well. So I'd tell them to look at both sides. - I love the question. And when you ask it, it actually made me nervous
to picture myself asking it, but what's it like to be
on the other side of me? - Start with your kids. You know, if you want a good 360 and there's a pier in the house, it'll give you some real
good feedback as well. - So just since you brought that up, I've mentioned 360s a
lot and I'm always aware there are some people that
don't know what that is. Do you want to explain what a good 360 is? - You know, 360 degrees,
it's a full circle. And so I like to think of
it as kind of, you know, a sphere, right? Because as I said, we need to be getting a
full circle of feedback from people above us,
peers, and people below us. And here's why. The human personality
can get compartmentalized and you'll have a lot of people that do great with their board. The people that report to them love them and their peers can't
stand working with them. You'll have some that are
great with their peers, people underneath them love them, and the people above them
say they're unmanageable and vice versa. So I think we've got to get
people around the whole sphere, you know, looking at us. But the other thing is that 360 really is about the whole life. And that's where, because
reality is, Craig, we all know this. What's going on in your personal life? Maybe it's clinical, maybe
depression or loss of energy or fear or anxiety or
addiction or a habit pattern. That will affect your leadership. And on the other side,
what's going on at work is gonna affect you in those areas. And so I like to get a full picture of the whole person's life, because it's like those little games where you stack the blocks
and you're pulling out. We're gonna get a full picture. - So what we'll do in our
organization for our top leaders, and it's almost on a calendar,
every X number of years, you're gonna get a full 360. And so what we would do
is people would basically talk about your leadership,
your life anonymously. So there's no repercussions
if someone says something that you wouldn't want them to say. And you'll have people above
you, you'll have your peers, you'll have people below you. And then we'll include sometimes people even outside the organization.
- Certainty. Family members and such. - And stakeholders.
- Yeah, exactly. - Go to the investors and the customers. - And I wanna just say to the
leaders listening right now, if you've never experienced this, it is one of the most painful
gifts that you can get. Because it is painful, because you're gonna learn
stuff that's hard to hear, but it's a gift above just about any. The ones I've done have
helped me break through what would have been blind
barriers to my leadership that I just didn't know were there, that were very obvious to everyone else. And it's a painful gift. - It is a very painful gift. But there's a proverb, a
group of proverbs actually, that talks about what a
wise person looks like. And it says, correct a wise person and they will be better
still, wiser still. Correct a fool and
they'll hate you for it. And so you can tell a lot
about a leader's character by how they utilize, I mean,
you just called it a gift. I'm a person of faith, so I always think about various verses and great King David said, if a righteous man strikes
me, I will consider it a gift. Give me the feedback, let me have it. And if a leader is un-feed-a-back-a-ball, or if that's a word, you got a problem. You got a real problem. You got a real problem. - Yeah, and it will be an
organizational problem. - It will be. It will be, yeah. - I wanna talk about trust because this is something
that we talked about. We both are very close to
the Global Leadership Summit. You're one of the most regular speakers because we beg you to come back
as often as we can get you. I talked at the summit this
year on the idea of trust and I actually worked on the talk before I read your manuscript because I typically work
about a year ahead on a talk, which is hard for some people to believe, but it takes that for me. And I forced myself to
get my outline almost done before I read your work because I knew when I read
it, I wanna copy everything. And-
(laughing) - But there's nothing
wrong with repeating stuff to the same lines. - No, I know, but I just,
I knew you're an expert. And what got me before
you even wrote on it, I recognized that I knew that society was becoming less trusting
of everyone and everything, but post COVID, it seemed like going back into what I thought would
be the normal environment, which was anything but normal, one of the most striking
views, observances, is that people aren't trusting as much. In fact, their default is to distrust. And so I wanna talk to you first about the why behind the book and is probably similar
to what I'm saying, but why this message now? And then I wanna unpack what you've learned about the theme. - Coincidentally, or lack of coincidence, I didn't really time it
with the breakdown of trust. It just kind of happened together. So I've been working with
leaders for a long time, and I'll usually get called in, in one of three scenarios. They're doing great, and
they wanna do better. The best touring pros have teachers. Or they've identified an issue. Maybe it could be a performance issue, could be a morale problem,
could be a culture thing. And we're doing well, but
we wanna make this better. This isn't where we want it. Or the third one is there's a crisis. Something's about to blow up with a person or the team or the company. And no matter what the
presenting problem is, Craig, it is not very long
that once you get into it, somewhere you are going to
find a breakdown in trust, because trust fuels everything. Like I said, you can't scale. Try to start a company and then scale it and go open up another
division across the country. You can't be there. So if you haven't picked
the right people to trust, you can never scale anything. And the greater ability that leaders have to trust correctly, the greater their ability to scale things. And the lesser ability they have, either they're gonna hold on to everything and micromanage everybody and not let them go do what they do, or they're gonna trust the wrong people. And so I've been working
with this model, gosh, for, I'm gonna say a couple of decades, teaching it in companies and all of that. And I kind of got tired
of having to repeat it and I said, I better write this down. That's really how it happened. And so that was the timing of it. But it does fall in a time where there is a breakdown in trust. And what I found is
sometimes very simple models. If you can have a little GPS, put it on a Post-It note
on your computer screen with the little five elements
and just ask yourself, how are we doing on these
things with our stakeholders, with my board, with my direct
reports, with our customers? It really, really helps. - So I almost, I wish
I could play this back and repeat what you just said, because you just listed several things. So with our stakeholders, with our board, maybe you said with our
customers, with our team members, we could even say with our family. And all these things matter. And we may have more of
a higher trust factor with one group and almost no
trust factor with another. So let's just start with
where you were a minute ago. You said in order to scale something up, we're gonna have to trust people. So let's say I'm leading
a growing company. - Unless you got a better option. The people are pretty tough. - It's absolutely essential. But people will ask me oftentimes, how do I know if I can trust someone? So if we've got five qualities, what are those qualities that
we're looking for to say, this is very likely or very potential or definitely a trustworthy person? - Well, it's hard to say definitely. You know, bad people
happen to good people. I mean, sometimes even the
best people get fooled. So I don't want anybody
that's ever made a bad hire, you know, because we've
all done it, right? Or trusted somebody you found out later you couldn't to feel bad about that, that kind of comes with
the learning curve. I mean, how did Bernie Madoff pull it off with the smartest people in the world for what, 20 something years? So you're gonna get burned somewhere. But just because that's the exception, you know, we can avoid a lot of mistakes if we know what to look for. So what I tried to do with the book was kind of scoured the whole world of everything written on trust, from business leadership to neuroscience, to neurobiology, psychology,
spirituality, all of that. And I always kind of like
to do a factor analysis, which is a statistical
term where you look at, you're looking at a thousand things, but then there's, they tend to, a lot of them be saying the same thing, they're highly correlated. And so you keep doing
that, keep doing that, keep doing that. And it came down to really five buckets that you can look at
all this stuff on trust and they kind of fall into these. And so that's where I
came up with the elements. And I don't know if you wanna- - Are you willing to tell us the buckets or do I need to send
them to Amazon right now? - Let's do both. I can't go deep into it. - I'll make a deal, I'll make a deal. If you tell us to go, to give us a five, I will tell people you actually
need to read the whole book. - Well, the thing about the book is, and in fact, I just had
somebody from a national company that people would know call me yesterday and say that what they've
done is they've taken it and sat down with their
teams and started to, and this is so cool,
you go around the table and let's talk about how we're
doing in these five areas with our customers, with the stakeholders, with our employees. But now let's really look at each other and how well are we doing with each other? And that's where it really gets powerful. - And the five factors. - Well, number one, we
don't trust somebody until we feel like they understand us. You know, leaders come in and persuade. They try to get people to trust them by, this is a great deal, we can do this. And they'll get persuasive about it. But the head is not going
to believe something until the deeper aspects
of the person feel like, well, I don't know about
what you're selling yet until you know what do I need? What hurts me? What makes me win? What do I need for you to deliver for me? - That's almost counterintuitive because if I want you to trust me, then I'm going to try to sell myself. But you're telling me I
actually need to understand you. - That's right, because see, this goes into deep, deep neuroscience. We are wired like the whole
system neurologically, physiologically to take in these signals and the system begins to open up. You've got something
called mirror neurons. Everybody's heard of those. What your mirror neurons are doing is they're focusing on the other person and they're reading how
much they're reading you. And when you sense something called, a psychologist called attunement, when somebody is present and with you, and basically we do this
through listening and empathy, but tones and a bunch of other stuff. If somebody really, you know, we've all seen people walk
out of a meeting with a CEO and everybody goes, how'd it go? And he goes, he didn't get it. And what that usually
means is he didn't get it because he wasn't trying
to really understand what we're trying to tell him. He's not really listening. And so it's hard for drivers. It's hard for persuaders. And it's a big deal. You know, I was talking
about this one time because it does come
down to deep listening. And I was at a leadership event and I was talking about this and a guy walks up to me afterwards and said, I'm the lead hostage
negotiator for the FBI. Everything you just talked about is our entire training program. He said, when we go into a bank, guy's got a bomb strapped to him with a bunch of hostages. You know, I walk in and
start persuading him, dude, this is a bad idea. You know, you shouldn't
have a bomb in here. We don't do that. - How'd we get here today? - How'd we get here today? Tell me how we got here today. And they start to gradually, and when that person feels mirrored, when they feel listened to
and they feel understand, they don't even know it, but their system is starting to open up. You can't persuade a closed door. I mean, how many people have
come home to their house and found a note on the table after 10 years of marriage and she or he says, I
can't do this anymore. And you go, what? Well, they've been trying
to tell you for 10 years, but you're trying to talk them out of it or say that's not true or minimizing or tell them your perspective. We need to be heard. And when you're, you know,
if you're running a company, I'll give you a great example of this. I had a company one time that had a big product
launch failure in technology. And so we went into a post-mortem. They called me in because
the whole thing was a mess. And so we got the executive team. You start to dial it back,
say, how did this happen? Well, the sales force is out
there selling the products. It's gonna launch in April. And customers are asking,
well, can it do that? Yeah, we can build that in. That's not a problem. And they started making promises that they were gonna have it built in. They had never listened to R&D to understand what that
meant for the other side. And so they come back
with all these features. They missed the product launch. And it was a big deal, simply because nobody
had tried to understand what do you need from me? And that's where trust starts to happen. - I think it's really important. And it took me years to learn that. And by nature, if I don't
remind myself of that, I still tend to come in
with a me-centered view of building trust, rather
than a you-centered view. And so I want people to
read the whole section, internalize it, because
it's really important. If that's one, is that I
must be understood to trust. What's the second one? - Well, the second one
is really bad people use empathy and care and understanding to seduce someone and manipulate them. So the second one is, they've got to know that your motive is not just about you and what you want. They've got to feel like you are for them. When somebody begins to feel
like you've got their back and whatever you're working on, that you're watching out for them, when they're not there,
then they start to go, I don't have to guard
myself, this guy's got me. And so that's a deeper letting go when you need something and
you're part of the organization and somebody else is talking to their team and they go, I don't know, I think this is gonna screw those guys up. We better go talk to them because we don't want
to cause them problems. And you just start to feel like, if you ever bought a car
and there's one salesman that they're just- - They want to make a deal.
- They want to make a deal. There's another one that,
tell me how you use a car. What's been your, and you really start to feel like they want you to be happy. They want you to work. - Or even better yet, they tell you, you know what, I may not
have what you're looking for. - Isn't that the best? At that point, you're like,
I'll buy whatever you have. - Right, because they care. - I mean, how many times, somebody that you can't quite trust, you get an email from,
hey, I want to talk to you. I've got this great opportunity. And you're going, yeah,
what's in it for them? You know that there's
something in it for them. You can feel it. - So if you can feel that, how do we help them feel the opposite that when we really do care? What can we do to communicate that? Is it natural? Will they just see it? Or is there anything that we
can do to help them to feel it? - Yeah, it's a good question, because I think we have to. You know, all this stuff needs to get down to behavioral anchors, things that you can actually do. And when you begin to, you know, let's just take
one of your team members or one of your direct reports. And they start to feel like, not only, you know, do you direct them in what the company needs from them, and we're going to get there, and the goals and all that stuff. But when they feel like, you know, I was thinking about you. And what you've told me about, you want to understand about
where you'd like to get to. There's this workshop, I think, that I took it when I was, you know, at your job or whatever. And if you want to, you
know, I'll send you to it. Or some other ways that
there's nothing in it for you, but they feel like that you're
sitting around thinking, how can you make their life better? Either personally or,
you know, professionally. And even when it comes to the work, when you know that, I mean, this goes down to the simple, all the old research about
what do employees need? Well, give them the tools they need. Well, what if the company, you know, only cares about, I'm not paying for that, but they really care about
what it's going to be like to be out on that truck? They feel like you're for them. And this is where really
taking care of employees in a good way where they know, you don't just care about the profits and shareholder value,
you care about them. That breeds a lot. And what it does is it fuels engagement. And so we want people to have both feet in and not one foot in and one foot out. - So I'm going to bring some
context for our audience and then I'm going to shift gears. And I'm grateful for our time. We're both on a tight schedule today. And so we have a deadline because we both have
other commitments a day. So we're not going to get to all five. What I'm going to do is
I'm going to have our team- - I think Amazon will
sell them half the book. - We'll sell them half the book. We're going to write a
short summary of all five and put it in the leader guide. You can go to
life.church/leadershippodcast, get the leader guide. And then we're going to
put a link to the book because what you're covering today, I think anybody can say this is so rich. I wish we had five hours
to talk about this. And we're going to put a link to the book so people can find the book. I want to compliment you
because from the time I met you, I don't remember ever not
being friends with you. Like I don't know the process
between shaking hands with you and becoming friends
because it happened so fast. And that's not true for very many people because when I met you and your
first two factors would be, they're both you focused. You were just very you focused. I remember early on you
complimenting a talk when I'm looking up to you
going, that's Henry Cloud. And you're complimenting a talk. And you said, I remember you said, here's what you did that was right. And you did this, you did
this, and you did this. It was brilliant. And then you said very truthfully, which created great trust. You said, and you forgot this part. It was, I did a talk on
discipline and you said, you forgot accountability,
that you need accountability. If you add that, your
talk is full and complete. I went, of course it is. And so you complimented
and then you were truthful and you added value and it was amazing. And I just, from that
moment, I trusted you. And every time we've been
together, you've always been, even today, how are you? With a very sincere,
not just a, how are you? But like genuine, like, how are you? Can I help you? And you always have that mindset. That's why it is without any reservation. I want to recommend your
books to our community because you write to serve
leaders and it shows. I want them to get to know you. Every time I recommend a book and someone hadn't heard of you, I think, where have you been? Because like, you haven't read that. But if there's someone that doesn't know about you and your resources, where can we go to find out more? - Well, you want to find
out more about what I have. If you go to drcloud.com, specifically, there's two digital platforms I have. One is called Leadership University and that's it, LeadU, the
letter U, L-E-A-D-U dot TV. You can find it on drcloud.com as well. But that's a modular online
leadership development path and includes exercises
and homework assignments, a bunch of stuff that they can
find right there on the web. One person can do it. We have entire huge companies that do it. And then another one on
the personal growth side is a site called boundaries.me and I have over a
hundred courses on there. - So we're going to link to
those sites on the leader guide and make sure people have access to it. When you're working with, I'm
going to wrap it up with this. Normally I'd ask you some
bunch of random fire questions, but you're going to get off easy because our time is ticking. - I'll do the shrink thing. Well, that's all our time for you. Before you get to the hard questions. - Time is up, time is up. I'm curious, when you're looking at and working with leaders today and without dropping any names, you're working with some of the best known and most visible leaders of
highly profitable companies. What is it, most people would say, what do you see as alarming? What problem are you trying to solve? What do you see today that's
actually exciting to you? - I see something that's
really, really exciting. And that is the great leaders
emphasis on their people. You know, it used to be, you know, the HR was somewhere
down the chain, right? They'd report to the CFO
or the COO or whatever. And I see more and more leaders having a chief people officer because they see the talent as their most important resource and also a great caring for them. And included in that,
the other thing I see is more and more of them really getting into their personal growth because that's where that
big delta, you know, Harvard- - The leader's personal growth or the team's personal growth? - Their own, as well. You know, the first part was- - And why does that matter? - Well, you know, ask Harvard. They did a gazillion year study. You get to a certain level, the C-suite or wherever,
everybody looks the same. They got the same IQ, same education, same experience, same business acumen. But there's this big delta between the high
performers and the others. 90% of that is how the
person is glued together. It's not how well they can do
technology or whatever it is. It's their makeup, how
they're glued together. And they're seeing it
and they're working on it and they're spending
time and resources on it. - And just to be really
clear, what does that mean? How are they glued together? What am I working on if I'm trying to get my
glue to stick better? - Well, you know, way back when I started, there wasn't a such thing
as executive coaching and all this stuff. They've kind of lumped it in. I think, you know, it
started 20 years ago. Now we call it emotional
intelligence and all of that. But basically what we're talking about is the leader's operating system. It's the software that runs them and kind of the
motherboard that runs them. And that's the personal and
the interpersonal equipment that they bring to the table. You've got to be able to manage, you know, what's going on inside of you, your emotional regulation,
your cognitive processes, the way you think, the
voices in your head, your confirmation biases,
your fears, your, you know. What if you've got wounds inside from whoever they came from and you got a boss or a board
member that triggers you? I mean, there goes your leadership, right? So they're really working
on the internal world but they're also working on, you know, we're subject and object. So subjective who they are and their awareness and all that, but their skills interpersonally because leadership is
about engaging talent to get from here to there. And if you, or customers or investors or whoever building the trust
we need and all of that. So it's both those arenas. - Well, I appreciate your mind. I appreciate your heart, your
research, your friendship. And the new book is called "Trust." We'll link to this in the leader guide. And I just wanna tell you,
thank you for your investment. Thank you for what you do in the community and to our leadership community. Thank you for engaging it. It's really an honor
that you would give me a little bit of your time each month. My goal is to bring you content that really does help you
grow in your leadership. If you don't have the
leader guide, get it. We're gonna link to all
of Henry's resources that will help you grow
in your leadership. Go to life.church/leadership podcast. If this content is helpful,
and I know it was, post on it. Henry may repost, I may repost. We wanna do everything we
can to add value to leaders and invite others to be a part
of our leadership community. So guess what? Today, we all got a little bit better, which is a really good thing. So thank you for helping us get better because we know that everyone wins when the leader gets better. (upbeat music)
