Barkha Dutt LIVE | Modi Govt's New Bill To Spark Executive-Judiciary Clash Over EC Appointments

[Music] thank you [Music] the center is moving to change how election Commissioners and the chief election commissioner is appointed I am with the Mojo story in moments from now our newsmaker today will be the former Chief election Commissioner of India S5 Qureshi but before we talk to him let's put this story in context here's what's happened earlier this year the Supreme Court verdict decided and this verdict came from a constitutional bench that three people a three-member selection committee would be responsible for choosing the members of an election commission this would include the Prime Minister the leader of the opposition and the Chief Justice of India a proposed legislation has now been brought to Parliament which will drop the Chief Justice from the selection panel and replace him or her with a cabinet minister instead now it's important to contextualize this before The Supreme Court verdict actually there was no process of law that was laid down as to how to appoint election Commissioners but why has the government moved to modify this particular formula and model presented by the Supreme Court and what might be the impact the concerns in an election year let's go across now to our guest for the evening Dr Espy Qureshi is with us let's welcome him to the program Dr Qureshi has been writing and uh and speaking a lot about the need for an autonomous Election Commission the need for an election commissioned with teeth that can both bite and bark metaphorically speaking that is uh Qureshi Sab uh thank you for joining us let me start by asking you what is this proposed legislation of course uh seeks to change a verdict from a constitutional bench what is your response to this proposed change I think it is a mixed bag there are a very negative thing then there are very good positive thing then I'll take you through them first of all this bill is in compliance of the supreme court order that you should have a bill till then they had an in interim arrangement with a collision with Chief Justice in it now government is going to have a collision which they never had for the last 75 years 70 years all right so to that extent it is in compliance yet they are removing the Chief Justice and replacing him with a cabinet minister which actually will make a mockery of a collegium because the T the two together will always overrule the leader of opposition he will always be outnumbered in in fact I remember reading uh some time ago these Indian Chaudhary the statement where he mentioned various instances where he was very badly treated in their collegium and overruled uh he will ask for an information which was not given and the way he was treated so actually that was making a mockery of the ecologian system now I have a solution to that one the the one that although the relative two to one naturally is inbuilt but if the decision is made the compulsoryly unanimous they have to agree on one person so that will take care of that thing now between the Chief Justice and the leader of opposition I definitely preferred the leader of opposition to be in the collegium because that creates more credibility because he knows the officers and he is involved in the election process chief justice may be an expert of law but he doesn't know any bureaucrat and all that he would know the the record which is presented to him and from uh chaudhary's account hardly anything is presented and thirdly many people have been questioning the Collision system because even when uh in the collegium and chief justice is there what kind of appointments have been made you know the director of CBI there was one director of CBI against uh whom there was a child by the IB known as that a criminal went to his house 118 three times now he was appointed by a collision with the Chief Justice in it so therefore chief justice is present is no guarantee Lop the presidency the guarantee but provided his own marginalized and for which I am bringing your solution now second good thing which has been a good thing which has been happening to do is the shortlisting committee he'll headed by the cabinet secretary with two secretaries so there will be five members now there also they are trying to undercut that this committee can overrule those five and bring in the sixth that is making a mockery of this this committee I mean that is too clever by house that is absolutely undesirable if cabinet secretary Clinton to others have selected five people after a Ann shortly presented the shortlist surely the uh all those five are secretary still coming to India that is another good thing that qualifications have been prescribed for 70 years there was no qualification you could have picked up anybody from the Sweden and pointed him it's a good thing that the government has been only taking the bureaucrats because they handle the the election throughout their life now secretary to government of India you know out of 100 people appointed to IAS uh at the after 35 years only six seven make it to the level of secretary all of them are brilliant all of them are good from where five are selected surely the uh there will be one in those five where the all three will agree so uh the system of shortlisting is good qualification is good but make it the unanimous decision that is so let me understand a few things one it's important to explain to our audience that before The Supreme Court order there was actually no legislative process for how to appoint members of the election commission so you welcome the fact that there is now a law being brought in that's the good part secondly you don't have have a per se problem with the Chief Justice being dropped from the selection panel you actually would much rather if if one had to choose choose a leader of opposition over the Chief Justice League or the selection panel because you think the leader of opposition is interacting with those who actually have to run elections point two point three your concern is right now the way the selection panel is stacked up there are two government members which is the prime minister and a cabinet minister and only one leader of the opposition so your solution is the decision should be unanimous this should be one thing in the bill that nobody can be chosen unless all three people agree yes absolutely okay so you don't mind that the chief justice has been dropped from the selection panel yeah because you know there was another question you that used to be read earlier the conflict of interest in the sense that here the chief justice is a part of appointment for and that same appointment gets challenged in the Supreme Court there he will sit in judgment over that appointment or if the if he even if he recuses himself his Junior uh judges will be sitting in judgment so that creates an awkward situation and finally because Chief Justice actually is not familiar with the bureaucracy and the personal knowledge and you know these days for the last day seven eight years evaluations is the annual confidential report of every officer eaten by 360 degree evaluation you know senior Juniors colleague peers everybody is interviewed to know who is who and who is what so therefore to to know such people and leader of opposition will know because all these people have been in the field he has dealt with them and a leader of opposition the choice should be affected he should not be marginalized there have to be an inbuilt Safeguard and obviously Supreme Court may not like this bill but at least they can compensate by introducing what I'm suggesting to you make it unanimous decision I think that's a very good suggestion but also to put it into context of the Supreme Court's constitutional bench came with this verdict it was also a time when the government was almost a battle with the Judiciary over how judges are appointed and I think a lot of us thought that maybe the court was also drawing a red line saying if you're going to interfere in how you know people in our domain are appointed we are also going to we also can can can interfere in in some of the appointments you make now my question to you Qureshi Sab is explain this committee why do you think this Committee of the shortlisting committee might potentially make a mockery of an autonomous Election Commission though the committee will not make a mockery if committee the idea is brilliant but you're saying that the panel can overrule the shortlist okay okay they will pick up from these five but if they want they can take a six man from outside that makes it that is absolute nonsensical that has to be ruled out so what is this then I mean make a short list of if not five make it seven make it 10 but go from the shortlist because the cabinet secretary and two sectors will make sure that out of as the as it is every secretary is a brilliant guy every secretary is a man of integrity otherwise he would not have become Secretary so from very bright good people if you're shortlisting five chances are that them should be acceptable to a leader of opposition at least one of the five will be acceptable if not all five let me ask you a last question of technically this has come from a constitutional bench with the Supreme Court and in its verdict the Supreme Court said that Till There is a process we are asking for this process to be followed but the Supreme I don't know how it would take to the truth it is having been dropped we can't anticipate what the Supreme Court would take do you see this becoming a major point of battle between the government and the courts well it can because then there will be more ego issue there if the Chief Justice and the talk to God feel that uh the intention is uh not to slightly the the chief just did but for the reasons which are voiced publicly many people have questioned the quality of selection then by the same collegium and and as I mentioned the CBI the directors do you think they've covered themselves with Glory where when Chief Joseph was a part of it therefore it is better for chief justice to keep himself out of this and better and it is better for him to sit in judgment on the quality when finally the recruitment is made and it is challenging in the Supreme Court they should sit in judgment there that will be better so with the uh yeah yeah that's a very important point that that is better for the Chief Justice to have some distance from the process so when there are disputes or challenges or appeals that come to the court the court can be dispassionate finally Qureshi said you said that the the way to make this process Affair one is to ask for a unanimous opinion but why not ask for a third member who does not represent either the government or the opposition yeah it is possible but then I thought to myself and maybe you can suggest who can that be speaking I don't know yeah speaker is the political man vice president of India he is a political man yes uh what's happening in Parliament who who will that be so it's in the it is very difficult to find that such a person well therefore but unanimity will take care of that and it's a very easy doable thing to do and actually you you said finally but I have two final things yes please please there is one very very good positive thing which is proposed in this which is being missed by in the debate and there is a negative thing now the positive thing is that some for 20 years we have been demanding that the removal uh process of all the three Commissioners should be identical while Chief election commissioner is protected from removal except through impeachment by the Constitution the other two can be removed very easily now our believe me the the other two Commissioners often feel their own probation they are looking for their shoulder is the government happy with me will they elevate me to see post or not and through them the CC can be manipulated therefore now the equal protection which has been suggested is a brilliant move we have been demanding and very quietly it has been inserted that the something which should be lodged and lauded and appreciated and finally finally there is one that one thing negative about which I'm concerned personally that the position of a election coming there have been downgraded now the before the administration and before 1991 the rank over CEC was at the offer secretary to the government and he was also treated like he was treated like an under secretary to the law industry so those things are behind in 1991 through the act and they were equated with the judges of the Supreme Court now now it will they have been equated with the cabinet secretary now here there is a very interesting catch in salary cabinet secretary and Supreme Court Judge has the same salary but in structure it is status and in warrant of Precedence there is a lot of difference so the downgrading the election commission we are a wish Guru in election we had set up a training institute in Election Commission where in 10 years 110 countries and Commissioners have trained from us we are the worship Guru and you are downgrading that Vish Guru to a lower level of a bureaucrat so that is something which I I think has scripted by mistake I'm sure it is not deliberate if it is it is unfortunate but if it is a mistake if it is oversight they should that should be corrected I think that's a very interesting point and I have to confess I had I I had missed that concern so I thank you for flagging it uh finally uh you know do you do therefore feel that this bill needs a lot more debate the forces before it is considering that I am mentioned two three concerns so who the how will the uh come into consideration except through debate they should be debated in this Corrections should be made well thank you for flagging these issues and I very much hope uh because of the no confidence motion actually uh right now this bill did not uh get uh get kind of the movement that it may have otherwise and now with all of these points that have been flagged and they're very interesting because you know the first response in the media was chief justice and you're actually saying that part is okay but there are other concerns uh that that are actually much more grave and compelling and need our attention thank you courageous have always a pleasure take care thank you [Music] it's great to see you here thank you for watching our work if you haven't subscribed yet don't forget to click the Bell icon And subscribe to motion story and support independent robust judgments [Music]

Channel: Mojo Story

Views: 13,252

Keywords: barkha dutt live, barkha dutt mojo story, election commission, dr sy quraishi, election body, india, narendra modi, bjp, centre, judiciary, centre govt, supreme court, parliament, monsoon session live, rajya sabha, Chief Election Commissioner and Election Commissioners, EC selection process, president, prime minister, politics, news, new bill on election, new bill brought in by the Modi Govt

Id: 1aE8MZXLb38

Length: 15min 27sec (927 seconds)

Published: Thu Aug 10 2023