Ava DuVernay & Ryan Coogler, In Conversation

[Music] I'm Kyle Buchanan from vulture and you guys are in for a treat today we have two of the most exciting Directors in Hollywood they're the masterminds behind two of next year's most anticipated movies if not the most anticipated so let's not waste any time let's bring them out please welcome Black Panther director Ryan Coogler and a wrinkle in time director Ava Duvernay so it's my understanding that we ripped you cruelly away from the editing Suites today I know that you guys are working very hard on your movies which are about to come out but you're just down the hall from one another you're pretty close is that right right across the hall exact next-door neighbor's our doors shared right so do you call each other into your rooms all the time to be like look at this scene this piece of marketing we see each other maybe three or four times a week and now and then we'll pop up in each other's rooms usually I'm scavenging for they'd have really good snacks over at left and before a certain cookie yesterday you were in our suite looking at fruit wraps for rat food snacks fruit snacks yeah it's really about food how far back did the two of you go do you remember the first time you met and what your impression was like like Friday it was it was twenty meant January of 2013 and I obviously actually I was working on no she was but but our first time meeting was it was in January 2013 like it was a room kind of like just like in a ticketing Lobby at Sundance I was there I was there with her I was there without my first feature film with fruit girl I was I was every was there in a lobby we saw each other I recognized each other from photos you know she came up gave each other a big hug and you know I just kinda started talking it's kind of been like that since what was your first impression of Ryan I just remember seeing him and knowing of his work and I remember in that moment and he was just reminding me of it it was a really long hug It was as if we had known each other because I think there's something about so few people like us doing what we do when you do find another person that's in that same space you know a person of color kind of telling a certain kind of story at that time in a certain space it was like kindred spirits and so yeah we we met in that moment and and never would have thought I mean yeah you could have told me then we would have been editing these eyes of movies these kinds of movies on the Disney lot doors two steps away from each other it just wasn't even in my he wasn't even anything I wanted at the time you know and I can't say that it was anything that I wanted even when I said yes to Michael in time well then let's talk about what about UTS in the first place because I know that coming off of Selma it seemed to me at least that you were being wooed everywhere Netflix wanted you Marvel was interested Disney obviously got your big project so how did they get you to yes this is the story it's not the size of the story for me that's what I say I wouldn't imagine that it ever be telling the story of this size because I wasn't just I'm interested in what they make all the time of the story of this girl so she happens to fly on creatures but you know she wasn't flying on creatures I would follow her wherever she was I'm just interested in the character of Megan what she represented and what she goes through so all the bells and whistles around it was nothing that I ever imagined for myself like I thought I always say and not enough people know her name but I thought it was gonna be the black wind Shelton and when Shelton like she makes these independent filmmaker that makes films of a certain size and a certain feeling unless she makes one every year like she turns them out and I was like if I could just do that so so I never imagined anything else not that what I'm doing now is better it's just much different than I thought so then mentally what did you have to do to get yourself in the head space up okay this is not a Lynch Elton movie this is a massive blockbuster that they're asking me to undertake well I'm trying to make a Lynch also movie just on a larger budget you know what I mean I mean Lynch Shelton movies are movies with a lot of heart that really explore the interior t of their characters most often women characters and so I can't say that what I'm doing within wrinkle is much different than what I did in middle of nowhere I will follow or what Lynch Shelton or a lot of other beautiful women directors do that's why I always kind of take a little thing about first woman black woman director to make a film of a certain size and that's really a construct that's outside of what it really means to tell the story you know what I mean that's an industry kind of financial constructs that doesn't represent any kind of huge achievement for me it's just about being able to tell to make another movie that's Brian let's talk about your path to black panther now industry scuttlebutt would have it that Marvel went to you for this project and initially you were weary or you turned it down tell me about that process and what got you to the point where you were like no actually you know what I'm gonna commit to this and I'm gonna give it 110% of myself it wasn't it was you know every time when I when I turned anything yeah you know it was really it was really a it were actually actually worked out in a way that I couldn't have I kind of imagined it you know I was I was in the comic books my whole my whole life and but once I got in the filmmaking I realized like I really like to to tell stories in in select projects that had that there were themes or questions that I was having personally questions that I was dealing with personally you know in every and I know we talked a lot with film we also talked a lot of like you know how solid film and one of the big things we have been we have been working on we we are we in a foundation called black off the human rights and it deals with like by issues of human rights violations that that that happened to folks here in the state's mass incarceration you know police police violence things of that nature and it was something I was really you know grappling with like like subject matter was things that that black folks are going through in this in this country at the time right around the time I was finishing up finishing it up Creed and one of those things I found myself going back to is you know you know you know you know what is colonization you know what does it mean to be what does it mean to be African these questions and then running around that time you know Marvel reached out and you know I wanted to talk about the project and we engaged and I kind of shared that with them and they were really opening it and exploring those things you know in in in this in this film and this you know in this massive superhero superhero film and then it working out you know you know between us you know and I was really excited to do it but there's never a time when I turned it down um you know but it you know when it came about it how I happened to be really interested in it and in the subject man I thought would be an amazing amazing opportunity what's the biggest emotional connect and the two of you have to your lead characters well I mean the thing that I hear both of us saying is that you know it's it's less about the bells and whistles on the size of the projects that we're working on and it's more about being able to talk about the things that we were interested in exploring as storytellers and they happen to be in these big splashy projects I mean that's how I feel about it I mean Maggie's I mean the opportunity to you know explore some real black girl magic on screen like I'm not mad at that right you know to to challenge the idea which is I think something both of our films two of who gets to be the hero right so in wrinkle in time you know literally this girl of color saves the universe not just the world multiple planets and galaxies right I mean that's just such a radical idea you know as a woman of color as anyone who's kind of outside of the industry construct of who is usually put forth as the hero in cinema and so to deconstruct that to unpack that it's really what attracted me to it and and you know I see Black Panthers doing something really similar in terms of you know remix in those standard shops mmm emotional connection to make two main character I think it's interesting right because you know I'm also emotional buddies with Alan Hoshi who talks he calls who's who's right and run writing he's writing around he's running around right now and to chala is a is a very interesting character and on the surface I think he's kind of difficult to write you know what I mean it's kind of difficult to attack because he's so he's so great in so many different ways you know I mean like he's he's extremely wealthy on his extremely smart he's culturally knowledgeable he's a king he's got this power you know he's a good guy you know so you know usually especially in comic books I was always drawn into characters who you know you kind of got in to their story through their flaws you know like I'm like like Batman is kind of crazy and he's harboring this this dish know he's harboring this and he's reliving this this distance this terrible moment that's happened to him and that's kind of how you kind of gain with with Batman but with you know with with the childhood you know he's kind of got everything going for him and in a way when I first thought about I said man this is gonna be tough no I'm not sure we like this do you know me like it like someone from my own perspective you know you know because he's so different from from from from what I'm used to but but through the process of making the film you know through the process of working with working with Chad and really you know trying to try to explore these things a final ownership in it like I'm incredibly uh I mean I'm incredibly attached to this character now and you know in our film you kind of find him at a time where you know where he's just lost the most important person in his life was his father and he's inheriting he's inheriting this incredible responsibility and he's inheriting it at a time when when Wakanda is struggling off you know struggle on what their identity is gonna be you know and on our film the world doesn't really know about what Connor they kind of exist in secret that kind of exists in the shadows and he's coming in at a time where people have different ideas of what the country should do so he's incredibly conflicted and um and he's aware of he's aware of us of this responsibility and trying to find it in himself you know what to do um it's not it's not much unlike with me and ever going through you know with these with these films you know um you know you find yourself every day you know people people trusting you with this with this massive thing that has a lot of importance but they watching you know they're hoping that you know that you don't mess it up you know I mean you got you got smart people around you who are pinnate their opinions in but at the same time you got to remember oh yeah I'm smart too you know I'm sensing when they giving these opinions many of my opinion flicks you know might be good for me to speak up sometimes other times might be better for me to listen you know and the other thing that's really cool the bonding that ties in there you know what I'm so excited about I was feeling for it is you know he's surrounded by he's incredible he's incredible women you know he's something that's consistent in the comic books and there's something SLR and our film is will and I set off a fine incredibly unique you know I'm slightly aside for people to see well I'm excited to talk about the sort of how you bring the intimacy to these large gigantic spectacles but I want to talk a little bit about the spectacle one of the things I'm most excited about and to judge from the coast play the Halloween costumes is these incredible outfits that Ruth Carter has put together tell me about how you the two of you conceived them I mean I think that you know working with Ruth there's plenty to but every was mad at me for using she was like y'all you got you got rules like no but but our incredibly obviously man and she's she's own you know she's not the designer costumes for some of the movies at that you know I was you know like just just seminal films man I do the right thing Malcolm X you know Selma you know it just how we how we got to work together with this was just we wanted to live you know with the big the big question for us for everybody man for Marvel for myself for roof every department with what well well you know what is what does he mean to be African you know I mean what does that what does that mean what does that concept me um and we look to the continent you know for clothes and we look to the continent for colors and patterns and you know we had to we had the comedy works there in Marvel Marvel has a has an incredible department called visual development which is so much a bunch of a bunch of artists that kind of come around whenever our artist named Ryan minor Dean but their job is to design superhero costumes you know and to make sure that the costume was working or functional but look cool and in a respectful little comics so it was a collaboration between between all of us you know to find you know to find these um to find it to find a storytelling through through what these characters put on and and when they change costume and with it and what that's and what that saying about that journey in the film if we really look to the continent you know who look to the continent for what the door I'm Elijah we wear um for what for but for black panther Seuss we looked at looked at an afro futurist works you know looking at how technology was a form no you know what they were and we found in a lot of a lot of them in African culture is that clothing has like multiple functions you know a shirt is not just a shirt and you know it tells a story it's got a design at that that that speaks on you know what tribe you from which I families done you know which which I rank is and your tribe you know and it also might serve as a form of protection know what from the weather whether in battle so we kind of tried to tried to bill it off for that you know I was in a roof loose you know roof is incredibly mm-hmm I want to ask about one of my favorite oh yeah go ahead yeah one of my favorite efforts from the trailer is actually one of the most stressed down once it's Michael B Jordan in the glasses with the stealing we're only talking about the coda or I mean the entire thing I assume he sort of incognito if you look like maybe Ryan Coogler lurked in college nah I couldn't afford that call incoming college I had a sweatshirt that liked my football cause gave me a son but but but uh not long I mean it was it was it was great man like like we really really want to explore you know I like what it means to be African and for Mary wearing and you know mice character Eric um honors from his from the states so so you know you kind of get a get a vibe for a little bit at a Diaspora in our culture here you know as african-americans so everything that date that he would wear you know at different and different scenes know something that we talked about heavy and we tried to pour from it we tried to pour from cool fashion Mike was real interested in that scene that kind of looking somebody stuff that that I'm gonna attach that street fashion culture is bringing to know got Jerry there is always fear of God you know no virtual habló we looked at looked at a lot of that stuff and looking looked at how how denim is making this making this big return so you know I was I was coming with winning in it picking what he would wear for that scene what about working in the Marvel sandbox I mean you are establishing a world that we haven't seen on screen before but in a way you're still working in a universe that we've seen multiple movies from inheriting characters that were introduced in other films how do you find sort of the happy medium where it can be Marvel but it can also really be Ryan Coogler I mean I think do I think that that that was worth I was what the studio was was interested in you know we sat down that day you know there at Dan a place where they've made you know they've made you know a lot of these a lot of these films and there the interesting and ways to make them different and I think you know what you see what they what they did with Tyco with the Ragnarok and you know work that they've been a giant gun I really want the filmmakers to bring to bring themselves today to bring themselves to the table um and like somebody's making like a good analogy I don't know how many of y'all in the in the fashion but like a big thing of fashion right now is collaboration you know like um you know like this you see Nike who's been making you know air forces for know for 20 30 years say yo you want to make an Air Force but maybe want to make it different that's not get a designer so let's make it let's make the old version of this this air force and you get a completely different shoe you know that that you know people people go crazy for it because it feels familiar but at the same time you know it's bringing us something different tools nothing that you know that's that I saw whether these films can be it can be effective and Marvel was you know extremely open to that and I would think maybe you could find inspiration from other Marvel movies because I know that both of you have worked with Tessa Thompson when you see her as Valkyrie and thor ragnarok what is that like for you I'm just babbling idiot that's really the first of all it's one of the best trailers of the year that trailer but I watched that and and her in that film I mean I was how much talking on Twitter like I mean on text like oMG did you see when you did this she's like yeah I did it was like but when you wore this she's like yeah I remember I mean I to see a friend so bold and ballsy in a character in a representation that that I've I've not really seen a black woman inhabit before in that space where it's kind of psychedelic fantasy and she just owned it yeah it was it was very moving because you know we know yeah well speaking of black women yeah it's a car like that well why don't we queue up the wrinkle in time trailer and deep dive into it so there are so many different worlds different planets tell me about conceiving the visual look for these places and then also making these wildly different planets sort of exist in the same movie together yeah no I'm happy to see that because it'll probably the last time we watch it because the new trailer drops tonight during the American musical world where we show more of the movie but no I mean that was one of the things that Disney really got me drew me in with it when they called me and they asked to talk with me about the project it was really chinh doan again - I have to think it's really important to name names - the people who've been supportive of you because it is not a normal thing to have studio executives kind of for grounding you know the work and vision of women of color people color in general in this space so so brother over there named Chen Chen donig and I was like the executive VP of production and he in the meeting he says he's telling about the story and I hadn't read wrinkle on time as a child and so he's telling me about the story he's telling me about meg and I'm like oh this is interesting I really am gonna read this and then he says and imagine the world's you can build I remember him saying that just think they imagined the world you can build Ava and I said the world's I can go and he's like yeah she hops planets and I was like she hops plan it's just like yeah it's all about her like planet hopping from planet to planet I was like well what planet like Mars and stuff like what just like no planets no one's ever seen heard of and I was like I mean that really is what got me yes the story of Meg but then the idea of being able to design and create spaces and places that you know we're unmapped so so yeah that process was extraordinary um you know a visual development phase where you just get to play you know for a couple of months and play with ideas and you're working with a team of artists and you're throwing out crazy things and the next day they come back and we're showing sketches and palettes and wisps of fabric and looking at other films and trying to kind of figure out how to make something that we haven't seen before but also something that feels familiar and intimate so yeah that process was extraordinary and I just attacked it planet by planet I'm excited to to kind of share a vision of what a sci-fi vision through the lens of a black woman because so often when watching sci-fi films it's through one specific lens right you know a white male lens predominantly for decades and decades and decades and so not that mine will be radically different but there there might be a softness to it or an edge to it or a color change to it that that we've not seen or maybe we have seen but skewed the bottom line is we don't know until we see it so why don't we just see on March 9th let's talk about let's drill down on one of those planets pick a planet from me that's in this movie tell me about sort of what was in that play face what we putting on the vision board what were your inspirations for it and and then how it evolved yeah gosh well there's a planet called Camazotz at the end of the film which is supposed to be controlled by an evil mind and in the book you know basically this planet shifts it's a planet of mini faces so every few minutes the environments changing so that was cool to try to figure out all the different changes and what those can look like and feel like and how you get from the suburbs to the next place and how the world switches right before the characters eye so that was fantastic to play with but one of the things in the book in the final kind of showdown scene the main character mad confronts that the monster it and widely known in the book she walks into a room and there's just a brain hanging in the corner and I was like how am I gonna shoot that a brain hanging in the corner I was like maybe I'll make it really big like yeah and just like super drippy like oh that's nasty I couldn't wrap my mind around the beauty of what what that would be so I won't say what we did but we end up doing something completely different taking the idea of a brain and and remake and kind of stretching it and kind of creating something different from the book but it is the book so that was the goal it's like we're working with source material it's working with a much loved comic book you know working with the much loved novel and you want fans of the book to feel like you caught the spirit of it but I didn't feel tethered and and and kind of shackled by having to make everything exactly how it was well I mean there there's no black in Southeast Asian Southeast Asian missus in the book right you know in the book the girl is not you know biracial around the book the little boys not like a bit little Filipino American little brother right so it's like we we we took liberties to be true to the spirit but we freed ourselves and free to our imagination to bring these fairytales in these fantasies into the current time which is one that should be much more inclusive Ryan what did you feel like you had to sort of update about the source material in black panther oh I'm not I think the biggest the biggest thing was and it's different right like like with what I was talking about it's cuz cuz cuz i'm a wrinkle in time was you know it's a book and within with books you know you can kind of keep reading and people are saying let me rewrite this book you know i mean you can just go back to the book and go with comics is a little different because you know they're home going you know like likes like Stan Lee and Jack Kirby invented this character in the 60s but you know you've had Christopher priest and Telangana seacoast and Reginald Hudlin kind of come in and and add and keep adding on innate and the character gets updated you know in the pages um so for so for us it wasn't about you know finding a way to mop to modernize anything per se the biggest challenge for me was more looking at how what Connor would fit into the today to the Marvel Cinematic Universe you know and people are familiar with this with this world and what they did but that world is that you know Tony Stark kind of exists in the world that's similar to our own you know like if you watch Avengers you know when the monsters fall out of the sky it looks like our New York you know how many people interact with each other the same way that we do so I was trying to find out how what Connor could exist in this world and these characters don't really know anything about it you know and in the comic books Wakanda is is um is known like everybody knows that this is this country in Africa they had this vibranium they're really wealthy you know you can't go in there they're very strong and I kind of keep to themselves but people know about that you know in the MCU it seems like who didn't really didn't really know so so this idea of Wakanda in hiding you know I mean this idea of what kinda you know operating with the front you know in the front that we kind of used was was um you know what if people thought what Condor was was like what if people thought what Conner was like Burkina Faso or it was like a like a small country in the Congo that nobody had ever really heard of thought it was you know I thought it was kind of you know thought I was poor and small and didn't have a lot going on where they convince people of that you know it's sort of so that they could go on unbothered you know and with that concept you know it's kind of what gave birth to art today to the film and the dynamics that we have you know that we have in it um and I thought was you know something I was challenging and I ever thought about naming names like I got to talk about you know name or you know it was a black man who works at Marvel producer um worked on a Winter Soldier in a civil war when I first met him I didn't know was I know it was any black executives at Marvel you know saying so I came to the meeting yeah he actually called me on the phone I was like I was talking some on the phone line I think this booze black got no heart is on a phone there you know internet and I kind of go into the restaurant the meeting you know my call years you know yeah that's what's up you know we sit down we started you know who started vibing but um but night wasn't no incredibly supportive and it kind of be obviously incredibly conscious of what no what it would mean if we're kinda you know if we're kinda existing you know on a man and um you know not to what do you mean to the world what does it mean for us you know so I think that that was I was a big challenge that we had and no trying trying to sort out short on the way that it would be believable addition to this nation you know could could hi I'm curious for both of you what was the thing that you were presented with whether it was a costume a piece of concept art or a massive set that maybe produced your biggest geek out moment on your own production I think probably that the costumes in the hair when they came together I mean when Oprah Winfrey walks out in a platinum blonde and are shaped wig and you'd had it sketched which worn short a would she put it on B would it look good and the clothes and like you know all of her clothes is kind of constructed like different kinds of armor and and she walks out and she looks incredible and like all the key grips and the gaffers you know all my guys and girls just break out an applause when uh when the actors come onstage Reese Witherspoon in a in a red you know fishtail Kim Kimble the incredible head of our hair department just innovating these things and so it's one thing to put those things on paper and then another thing to work with actresses and kind of say try to convince them to look that way and these women were incredibly game for it but then when they walk out just Mindy just so gorgeous and all the frames so that just inspired all of us you know the worlds are one thing to make it when you put this living art these clothes and it's hair on people and it becomes a part of them and the characters come alive but there's there's nothing better than that Ryan what about you what was the thing that you were like holy yes yeah it's tocar it would happen every day man I still have it in Polish you know um but but I would say I mean look man issue I would have to actively play my tricks with myself that I didn't see what I was looking at so I wouldn't I break down you know like so I wouldn't break down and in lose time no cuz you fighting that he fight even knows where you fighting the clock constantly on these names um but but but I I think I would say the first time um and it's a trip right these are two actors and I inherited you know I mean it was it was chadwick you know an actor named John Connie who's uh who's massive talent in kind of like a Titan of acting in South Africa but he plays to chocolate he plays he plays Chadwicks you know Chadwicks uh to tell his father in the film and he was cast about it by the Russo brothers in civil and civil war but I'm a little bit of a little bit of a spoiler but not so much a spoiler but but you know they they have a scene together in art and art film and um he showed up to rehearse you know who's like the day before that was Paul as a shoe and he kind of so you know you got this and he's he's you know I you know African man in his 70s um he's just got a car what they gotta want the knowledge you know I mean any any and he shows up he start and he's talking to me and telling me you know stories about what what he was he was dealing with back on the continent and he's wearing jeans and a t-shirt you dressed and I backwards cap he dressed like you just like us and um and in chat shows up and we on this we on this stage that we gonna shoot on man and in the middle of a warehouse and he's like man shadows of he's I had coming start and they and they start rehearsing and buffing them being incredible actors that they'd already both just snap into it it's just me ain't no you know it's just meet him in my cell phone you know I'm and they start speaking in OSA which is a dialect in South Africa um you know that chat that I had learned and that and that John speaks speaks naturally and I'm something about just just just realizing that we're gonna had this film where a father and a son talk to each other and in this in its native known this native African language talking about the things that we were talking about but in a superhero movie you know it kind of hit me it kind of hit me pretty you know pretty hard for a second you know no it was it was you know emotionally moving and it was at any and whenever it happens I don't know ever the same way she she smiled and she got her butt shield machine man I got seen her in a Center in action um when you get those moments you gotta remind yourself okay I can't I can't I can't fall to pieces right here you know since it's so much work left it so much work left to be done so you get yourself a couple of seconds you know saying and you get and you get you get right back to it but on me yet I thought was a that was a that was a big one I was a big one right the our team talked about your evolution as visual artists whether it was before you started making movies or even during them what had to happen how did you assert your ability to tell stories visually to get you to this point give me a question one more time oh yeah your evolution is a visual artist I mean you made both of you have made movies before but even before that you know whether it's your personal style the way that you constructed your bedroom what were the ways in which you could express yourself that led to you putting together these amazing frames that's a trip man um because growing up I was an athlete man like I'm not with the school players portion didn't think of myself as an artist I was just but I would draw stuff like looking looking back on it you know I was drawn of it I was always trying to make some money so I would like I would like drama oh my oh my I'll get fairy pins and drawing my homies genes I couldn't even draw that good our vision they're like good and in charging you know chant charge a charge of $15 here at $20 dear you know I'll draw on that drawing a canvas had as someone who's rocking those but uh you know it would come and kind of make make sneakers make tennis shoes watch Power Rangers you know I'm saying like autumn air if we had if we had this power and you look like this but it was something me and all my all my buddies did you know and then you know we're not discovered filmmaking it was like something diarrhea reawakened in in me again I realize all y'all do you know I do have an affinity for how for how things line up for how they for how they feel if how they look but at the same time you know you got a you find yourself no hooking up with great with other great visual artists you know I mean to lean in like you know folks like right right Rachel Morrison you know everywhere Bradford young on a lot of hurt a lot of hard films and and you hook up with other folks who who who see who appreciate it like you'll be seeing in a different way and that's the kind of the beauty of beauty of filmmaking because you know if I was still drawing on clothes I'll be trash man better than me there but no no you know I didn't I didn't go to film school and I didn't pick up a camera till I was 32 so that's intimidating you know when you're in a Sundance environment with a lot of really talented people who did have the benefit of that kind of formal training and so to really be able to trust my own eye and to be able to see value in the way that I was thinking of frames and thinking of moving the camera you know well not in those early years having the full vocabulary and full grasp of all the tools available to me right I just knew how I wanted it to look so it was really important how I wanted it to feel so it's really important that I surround myself with people who wouldn't judge me for not being able to tell you exactly what lens I wanted but would really kind of understand the mood and vibe of what I wanted and delved into that embrace that engage me what I wanted and so now of course you know I'm caught up but I felt like I'd about the time maybe on Selma and some other things that I've been working on Queen sugar and the look of that that I thanks that high that I am kind of really being able to be really clear about my style but the way that I want frames this Disney movie comes along and my responsibility is not to yes it's to put myself in it but also I'm making a Disney movie it's Dink Disney's a wrinkle in time right and so it's not gonna be the same frames that I make with with breakfast right when we're just kind of like going for it and doing whatever we wanted on a free and independent set when no one's gonna be you know looking at the frames I remember we were shooting Selma we were shooting a scene where dr. King and his comrade are in jail a dank dark southern horrible jail cell and they're having a conversation and so we said we there this will be dark you only see small outlines of their bodies and different people in the cell and you'll just see the the wind the light from the streetlight coming in way in the distance so you'll just get it out line we're like yeah that's dope so we shot it and I remember the next day the producers and the financier was like hmm yeah it's very dark and I was like yeah you know cuz they're in a dark place and they say yeah but you know they're black and they're in a dark place all right too much dark and and it's in the film it's in the film that way but those are the kinds of things that you don't have to fight for in a certain space I didn't want that to be in this business this Disney film is belongs in a Disney cinematic canon and that is one that's very bright and full of light and so right about the time that I'm getting a good grasp on how I like things to be I purposely with the other way to lean into you know speaking in a visual language that people who that people expect when they go and see a Disney movie now I try to make it a little dope or a little edgier but not to go full you know I mean full of Radford and whatever Raju you know but really honor what this is supposed to be so and that was the first for me because I've never made a film where I felt the responsibility for the look being outside of just my own preference and so it was it was a level experiment and and I'm having with the friends and while you were doing that Bradford was shooting Star Wars right but on Star Wars somehow he negotiated to still do what everybody they'll do whatever you wanted in a big Star Wars movie I'm excited to see it what would it have been like for you to see these movies at age 10 mmm transformative you know which is what my hope is for these I mean it's a really really the true reason why I did it I have a nice start ten years old who I call it the real Meg you know she is the real man I put the topknot on Meg in the glasses and the way that Meg dresses is exactly for my niece Molly it's out like it was a picture of Molly and I gave it to the costume designer and said this is what she will wear and so and I want her to see all that's possible for her and and not have to wait until she's 32 years old to figure it out right like she should be able to know that she can walk through any door walk through any door and even if the door is not there if you start walking towards it it will appear for you and so so yeah that's my goal that's at it and not just white girls all kinds of girls and not just girls but boys to be able to see the possibilities to be able to understand that a hero doesn't have to be defined so narrowly that's my that's my hopefully fine what about you if you were 10 super into comics and you saw this big-budget Black Panther movie okay I couldn't be honest I couldn't imagine it man like like you know I was no man when I was ten you know I were being fired up that they were making a Ninja Turtles movie like like I was making a par reg we go why y'all I'm making apart you know in I think y'all wouldn't know what to do man but that that you know that if somebody told me it was a it was a Avery when I was ten years old when I was 10 years old I would've told you it'd never be a black president you know same like you know sure so coming the fact it I'm Noah in like I'm making this feeling for Martin yourself like every you know every day it's some Italian see for Mom you know for my 31 year old so you know I mean like um in you know um Charles Charles king who we both we both know world closely incredible producer incredible credible person um he came to comic-con we showed that no we showed a little bit of footage and he brought his two sons Noah and Julian you know in you know say my wife's oh you said Noah and Julian are so alright yeah quite like probably I would say I want to say like sitting like ten and ten and eight something like that you know I'm saying and he brought a lot here and he had him in um in Hall H and um it coincidentally after we played it and he went back in the lobby it was the first two people at a table saw yeah and I ran up to me and they said hey yo Ryan I mean that was awesome you know Sam and they both they both gave me a look you know in a hug and I and I and I felt it there I was like yo I mean I I mean for them everyday world is different from from from our world man a night at ten years old you don't never be a president like Obama or and I talked about to tell you'll never be a president like Trump I'll told you was crazy ya know any and these kids are living with you know they living with a living with that world right now you know and they living with a world where there's you know where there's a was who picked up a camera at 32 and it made made masterpieces you know you know I'm sounding in and challenge the sentiment is gonna have a long career ahead of makes TV on the side I don't know how she does it you know Sam I mean I literally I'm in the hallways like stressing all over one movie and she like y'all just came back from Queens sugar and I'm gonna wait and a fleet I gotta go to this Awards Banquet going to view and I'm like I was here all day and I still it Lois ugh yeah right this is all year we'll figure it out you know what I mean like just just just you know these kids may not think they're gonna save all of us to be honest wishing man like you know and we got to do our parts to keep another keep to keep pushing to keep pushing things things forward man but I think who would I mean I see a movie about a smile looks like me man was a king you know I'm saying and nose and nose ain't ancestry to the to the to the beginning and knows they it knows it has access to all of that in has an army of incredible folks around him who believe in him I don't know what that would have done for me when I was when I was when I was 10 years old man oh I want to get a few questions from the audience we're not gonna have time for very many but first two quick hits for both of you Ava yesterday Issa Rae was here people asked she was asked a question from the audience about the rumored Rihanna Lupita cavers movie what can you tell us about that is that a potential go project what's the status it's a possibility so strong possibility I'll say we'll see and Ryan have you as Marvel showed you anything from infinity war I would imagine since Black Panther is in it you might have seen some scenes [Laughter] let's get a couple questions from the audience right here we have a mic runner yeah right behind you no not for me it was a incredible collaboration our screenwriter Jennifer Lee who wrote frozen and I just got along fantastically and she had already had a lovely script and so we worked together to two-carbon and craft it into what we both wanted and the studio was incredibly supportive so we got lucky it was it was a sign for it was a sign for me honestly um it was you know it was it was a commerce site it was constant conversations so it was never like a note that came in the mail that was you know that yeah you know how we want to do this and it was something that I was like meh that's doesn't know we were always we're always talking you know we were kind of always always together you know and in like any collaboration you have you have different different point of views but but on was never a situation where without what I have no and in what was great you know sitting down with with with night and Kevin and who a Victoria was that you know we were in agreement on what what the movie was gonna be about before before we really ain't gay you know I'm saying which is which is which is important which is important for me and in and as and as a result man it's been it's been a great collaboration did Marvel say it all like okay we'd love it if you use this Andy Serkis character and just FYI the Winter Soldier is a popsicle in Wakanda right now if you want to I mean I mean we had all ideas on the table you know like yeah all you know and that's the cool yeah and like I said the cool thing about collaboration and collaborating with somebody who has this incredible stuff to pour from you know like who wouldn't want any circus and they and they movie you know I mean like who wouldn't want to check in a movie so so it was I was like Mack you should put everything on the table - our guy man let's use all that is you know I'm standing English and let's let's figure out what else we can you know we got with us we could throw in the build off of you know add more questions from the audience right here you yeah I think coming your way projects are actors I mean I'm working on my project right now a lot of work whatever in the future right with all its I think um yeah I think this is my dream project for its fortunately enough um you know once I'm able to see it through I figure I was what's up after that no cut the media 0 that was nice it was just a meeting you went like every gonna do this thing again just a meeting but it was it was awesome yeah I wanna not in terms of actors there's all kinds of actors but I eventually want to I don't know and it'll happen or if I'll be the one to do it but I'd like to be a part of seeing the story of Assata Shakur come to the screen got am a freedom fighter really controversial character but a warrior sister that has an amar Keable story so but we'll see that ever happens thank you more questions right here in creating the trailer and creating the story for you did you get to pick the songs in the trailers so with that sort of a collaborative effort she made a song you made a song I made a song we haven't announced that song ever closer oh that song oh yeah I've actually said to this I'd ask Disney if they would consider some version of sweet dreams and so yeah they put it in there so yeah they've been requited a dog yeah we recorded new people kind of like a remix on it and so yeah it was fun but yeah music is such a huge huge thing you can have a scene and you know the scene that the same scene and put three different kinds of music on its source cues which is like existing music that exists in the world score which is something that's composed and mostly orchestral or something ambient music and it'll completely change the meaning of the of the of the scene so it's a huge huge tool and one that I really enjoy playing with even when it comes to the Philosopher's in the film because I know that Mindy Kaling's character quotes from a whole lot of places and I believe jay-z is one of the people quoted what's a few hip-hop legends yeah so yeah she only speaks through quotes so she gets in a couple of modern-day poet yeah and Ryan what about you I mean both of the trailers for Black Panther have had amazing music yeah I run the jewels in the first trailer yeah I mean I mean I that's that's all I saw a Disney Disney marketing and I got a great team with a shot and uh a B in those guys maybe you know pick some really really brave stuff to put in and try there for a you know I own SP that's being distributed by disney you wanna manage it shouts out to them for being but for being on open-minded and forward enough to put that stuff in there i work with i work with one of my closest friends names Louie Goran song a little big does you know he's done a music folks for pretty much everything I made something in film school he works no you work work she works with no does movie scores also as a music producer works in childish gambino and if look and it's there's a trip for this cuz Luke you know a little big is you know he's about my age with you know he grew up in Stockholm um you know you had to make this you making this film about you know about Africa so you know bad you know almost like as soon as as soon as I figure out I was gonna do it he just flew to the continent you know it was it was it was like in Senegal like set up set up a studio got off there with an artist named Bob Omar and just set up a studio always just was living there you know and um and you know recorded a bunch of stuff you know while I was writing you know he came back you know went back again and came back so so your music is uh it's really interesting I think it'll be a cool cool it's a cool experiment um you know you use it using using a lot of music a lot of concepts from the continent well that's all the time we have but let's just say one go ahead I don't know when when next stop we're able to be on a stage with him but I just want to thank you lion because I get to see it won't get emotional with you know we work on a Disney lot and our doors are right across from each other and I just want to thank you publicly because to see you every day or few times a week to be able to look at you and look in your eyes and know that we're doing the same thing and in the same space it's been so nourishing and bolstering to me and good times and bad so that's what that it has been a lot of bad times but you make all the time so good and so I'm happy to doing this journey with you at this time and I'm so excited [Applause] thank you [Applause] [Music]

Channel: Vulture

Views: 87,973

Keywords: ava duvernay, ryan coogler, black panther, wrinkle in time, vulture festival

Id: _JLpGOhSHYE

Length: 50min 35sec (3035 seconds)

Published: Tue Feb 20 2018