Cronkite school of journalism at Arizona state university. Geoff: A newly-leaked audio recording appears to show former president Donald Trump discussing sensitive documents with people who didn't have security clearances during a 2021 meeting in bedminster, new Jersey. In this audio first obtained by CNN, the former president seems to acknowledge he knowingly held onto a document about a potential attack on Iran. >> This totally wins my case. It is highly confidential. This is secret information. I think we can probably -- >> We will have to see. >> Declassified. As president, I could have declassified it. Now, I can't. Is that interesting? Geoff: The two-minute audio recording could hold key evidence in trump's indictment over his handling of classified information after he left the white house. David N. Kelley is the former United States attorney for the southern district of New York and is an experienced trial lawyer and investigator. He joins us now. Thank you for being with us. David: Thanks. Geoff: On this recording which the newshour has not independently verified, Donald Trump is also heard saying it is so cool, and that the information was classified and highly confidential. How might the special counsel leverage this recording as evidence in the indictment against the former president? David: I think the special counsel would look at this recording as if he's opening a chest and the glow of gold shines on his face when he sees evidence like this. It is really quite a recording. It is principally two things. One, it helps prove one of the overt acts, namely that he showed documents the folks who didn't have clearances. Two, it also speaks to his state of mind. It says that he knew that he could not declassify it. He knew he should not be showing it. These are all things that fly in the face of a lot of the public statements he is making, including the one he made today that he did nothing wrong. Geoff: The episode is referenced in the special counsel indictment. Donald Trump has pleaded not guilty to the charges against him. How might a jury react to hearing this audio as opposed to just reading the transcript in black and white? David: You always like to have something more real-life than just a transcript. Having it here -- it is really unlikely that he will testify on his own behalf. I think the government will try to use his recordings to hear his own voice. And not only does it bring more life to the courtroom, but it is a little less cumbersome than having a transcript there and having people read along with it. Having the real-life voice there is exponentially better in terms of form of evidence. Geoff: Donald Trump reacted to this lease recording today. Here's what he told Fox News while speaking in New Hampshire. >> We did absolutely nothing wrong. It is just another hoax. I would say election interference more than anything else. Everything was fine. We did nothing wrong and everybody knows it. Geoff: How do his public statements in which he often times admits to the thing he's accused of, he often says I took those documents and had every right to take those documents -- how does that complicate his legal case? David: Two ways of looking at it. One is to say that he's making a lot of statements that his defense lawyer typically would not like him to make because it flies in the face of the defense they would like to construct. Because the other pieces of evidence like this new recording indicated he did know what he was doing was wrong. The other thing -- another way to look at it, maybe from his twisted prism is to think of it in terms of, that he's crazy like a fox or dumb like a fox insofar as he really thought what he was doing was not wrong. The problem with that is under all the circumstances, under all the evidence they will present at trial, that belief, if it was in fact his belief, is simply not a reasonable belief. Geoff: We also know that investigators from special counsel jack Smith's office are set to interview the Georgia secretary of state about the special counsel probe into efforts to overturn the election. Donald Trump back in January of 2021 called him and pressed him to find the votes that he needed to turn that state in his favor. Help us understand the value that a Brad raffensperger has in the special counsel case. David: A couple of different ways. First, he is not someone who can be painted as the defense as having a political ax to grind. More important, whenever you have somebody who is on a recording, to be there live in the courtroom to helping slain the context of the information, to give the background of how you came to have that conversation, and what you may have done in relation to that conversation is important evidence that bolsters the strength of a pretty damming piece of evidence, or so it would appear. Geoff: David, thank you for your time and insight. David: Thank you. ♪♪
