Aquinas on the Blessed Mother - Fr. Thomas Petri, O.P.

Thank You father father Dominic this evening I've chosen to focus on st. Thomas Aquinas is thought on the Blessed Virgin Mary her freedom her genius and her beauty but before we get to those however I think we need to get one thing sort of out of the way as most people know who've read Saint Thomas who have studied him or who have studied him st. Thomas Aquinas did not believe that the Blessed Virgin Mary was immaculately conceived so he didn't hold for the Immaculate Conception now I want to remind you that st. Thomas died in 1274 and it wasn't until 1845 that Blessed Pope Pius the 9th declared the dogma of the Immaculate Conception so it's almost 700 or 600 years later whether the Blessed Mother was immaculately conceived was an open question in st. Thomas's day in the 13th century and he came down on the wrong side of history with his answer but to be fair to be fair to the angelic doctor when he writes on this matter in his Summa theologia he uses very tentative language he uses phraseology like it seems not or it seems unfitting the language of fit eNOS to st. Thomas is language that he is always tenuous for him in the Latin its conveniens it's the word he often uses when he knows that he's postulating a theory the conclusion of which cannot be stated with any definitive precision because there's simply not enough data in Revelation to know one way or the other for example he would say that it's fitting that it's the second person of the Trinity the Son of God the logos the word who assumes a human nature rather than the first person the father or the third person the Holy Spirit precisely because he says it is fitting that the second person who is the image of God the word would be sent to repair the broken image of God in you and I but this doesn't mean for st. Thomas that the father or the Holy Spirit could not have become incarnate instead but simply to say that it's fitting that the second person did it's it's beautiful that he did so in the same way say Thomas argues that it would not be fitting or beautiful for the Blessed Mother to be immaculately conceived without the stain of original sin and he he held this position for two basic reasons first that if she had been immaculately conceived it would require certainly a movement of grace and the rational soul is the proper recipient of grace therefore for st. Thomas Mary's soul would at least have to exist first before it could receive such a grace he doesn't think such a grace could be given before she is conceived which is to say she could not receive grace until after her conception not at the moment of it or even before it and secondly and and this is probably the more important reason I think st. Thomas thought that if the Blessed Mother were immaculately conceived it would be somewhat derogatory this is sort of the English translation of the word he uses it would be derogatory to Jesus Christ it is much as it would mean as he understood it that she would have no need of his Redemption and Christ would no longer be the only sinless person now of course in defining his the dogma blessed pious ix dismissed this line of thought and declared that Mary was given the grace of the Immaculate Conception at the moment she came into existence in view in view of the merits her son Jesus Christ would earn on the cross according to Pope Pius the ninth the Immaculate Conception is itself a result of the redemption of Christ prevenient Lior coming before so there is no way the dogma or the Immaculate Conception suggests that Mary is somehow equal to Jesus Christ now talking about this then her Immaculate Conception and her sinlessness I need to make a little detour this evening into st. Thomas's thought on the state of Adam and Eve before the fall which he calls original justice and which he thinks in original sin you and I obviously do not have so it'd be important to settle what he understands original justice and original sin to mean and I know that father Gregory pine gave a quarantine lecture last week on original sin so some of this might be review say Thomas writes that original justice the state in which Adam and Eve were created he says this consisted in man's reason being subject to God the lower powers to reason and the body being subject to the soul so it's a threefold subjection and he adds that the first subjection man's subject to God the reason subject to God was the cause of both the second and the third since while reason was subject to God he says the lower power has remained a subject to reason it's only when the human person is in right relationship with God that he's also in right relationship with himself now it's important to note that this threefold subjection reason to God lower powers to reason and body to soul is not a natural endowment in fact the Catholic tradition and Catholic teaching has long held that Adam and Eve were endowed and this is a direct quote with from one of these great one of the great 20th century two mystic commentators TC O'Brien that Adam and Eve were endowed with grace and other gifts surpassing what is due to human nature itself it's important to remember this the human species was created in grace and if you remember only a few things from this evening I hope you'd remember that that the human species was created in grace original justice was a grace st. Thomas rights as a direct quote it is clear that such a subjection of the body to the soul and the lower powers to reason was not from nature otherwise it would have remained after sin because sin does not destroy our nature hence it's clear he says that that the primitive subjection by virtue of which reason was subject to God was not merely a natural gift but a super natural endowment of grace and so for st. Thomas the first man and woman were created in Grace and this grace is the cause of a righteousness being well ordered being subject to God and right relationship with each other and with each other and with with ourselves this is the state of original justice and this is necessary the subjection of the lower powers to the higher powers our animal instincts the subjection of the lower powers to our higher powers are necessary for happiness for st. Thomas he explains why in his disputed questions on evil which he were written around the same time as the Summa he says in addition to grace the grace that we all need to be united to God st. Thomas writes that human beings also needed another supernatural help and he says it's because of our composite nature were body and soul he says human beings are composed of soul and body of an intellectual and a sensory nature our body has senses and passions he continues if the body and the senses are left to their nature they will burden and they will hinder the intellect from being able to freely attain the highest riches of contemplation and this help was original justice by which the mind of human beings would be so subject to God he writes that their powers and their very bodies would be completely subject to them and their reason would not impede them from being able to tend and to pursue God now this situation that Adam and Eve were created in this situation of original justice was entirely unique our first parents were uniquely blessed with unmerited grace which perfected their human nature on a natural level and eliminated the deficiencies that tend to go along with our nature like suffering and death and corruption and being somewhat discombobulated with all the wonderfully sensory good things in the world our sensitive appetites our passions often pull us in various directions towards various goods not even sinful things just various goods there are a lot of good things in this world our God has created and they can distract us from our higher pursuits unless those appetites are channeled by reason and directed by reason original justice was a grace keeping those various pursuits entirely directed and aligned with the pursuit of God so I say it again the human species was created in grace now say Thomas would even say and even says and teaches that this original justice is actually a good of our human nature even though it's not natural its defining of who we are he says there are three goods of human nature three things that define our human nature first are of course the principles that we have an intellect of mind that we have a will that we a body and soul the second is that we are inclined we are hired hardwired to pursue excellence and perfection and the third he says is the gift of original justice it's what all three of these things are what make us human as God intends this means that we're not supposed to think about human beings apart from the gift of grace that was original justice the way we live the way you live the way I live with original sin is derivative it's not as human beings were intended by God to live from the beginning you and I are not human beings as the human species was created to be we're fallen we're not as Adam and Eve originally were and so therefore our emotions easily run rampant and they're disobedient to reason and so often we then either let them run amuck or we feel the need to clamp down on them with a stoic severity all of this is a result of original sin for st. Thomas original sin is an inordinate dispositions as a direct quote an inordinate disposition arising from the destruction of the Harmony which is essential to original justice rather than living in harm in the harmony of the nature perfecting grace that was original justice in this fallen condition we live disintegrated lives the inordinate disposition of the parts of the soul become a sort of habit in original sin for st. Thomas original sin can never be considered a sort of pure privation because he he reserves that language privation for something that is due to your nature but which is absent I mean if you don't have two arms or two legs or two eyes that's a pure privation because you're naturally supposed to have them but original justice is not due to us it was a gift from the beginning it was just a gift that we were created in and meant to have since original justice was a grace that gave harmony to human nature in the Garden of Eden original sin is less a privation and more a simple continuation of human existence without the nature perfecting endowments of grace it's a loss that inevitably leads to disorder once again from TC O'Brien Thomas O'Brien he puts its this way human nature with its powers as derived from Adam is now just itself left to itself this is how it is disordered we're just on our own did kebab you lated flitting from one good to the other original sin is not a positive inclination to moral evil added on to the human nature following our first parents sin if it were that if it were in fact an active inclination to evil sometimes you'll hear people say that it's not technically how the church understands original sin then God Himself would be implicated in evils cause as the one who inflicted this sinful positive inclination as a punishment for the first sin rather original sin is the rupture of man's relationship with God and therefore the loss of his own integration we're worse than discombobulated there's nothing to prevent us from flitting around to various goods even a losery or false goods or sinful goods unendingly without without end now this has important consequences for st. Thomas's view of fallen human nature he says that this disintegration that I've been talking to about it's properly called the wounding of nature our corrupt state he says he knows that all the powers are left now destitute of their proper order this is what he means sometimes you've heard this word and this is a great word too to use this is what he means by the fullness of sin it's the static that now exists between our passions our emotional life and the higher parts of ourselves our intellect pursuing truth our will pursuing love and how we can so often get that wrong and be carried away this is why we're so easily distracted when we when we learn and when we pray it's why we have problems with the body it's it's why we can't often keep straight thoughts on difficult things or prayerful things it's the faux --mess that is the inclination to sin because it's the result of the disintegration that comes from losing original justice we just now much more easily follow our passions now of course our Lord Jesus Christ had none of this in his humanity his humanity is perfectly united to his divinity and there is no original sin in him he became a man like us in all things but sin for st. Thomas while Christ could certainly feel pain and such things as that in his body his body which is to say his passions were never but united to his reason and actually United to his divinity so Christ does not experience the fullness now he could certainly be tempted and we use that term loosely here by external factors I mean think of the temptation in the desert but those external temptations were never would never have been internalized in him the way that they would be internalized for you and I you and I would actually listen to these temptations and think about them and consider them the scripture never suggest that he countenanced the temptations of the devil he always had an immediate reaction that was just and good and holy he never internally considered for the slightest second the temptations of the devil now as I said st. Thomas believed that the Blessed Mother that Mary was conceived with the stain of original sin but nonetheless he maintains a very high view of the Blessed Virgin Mary of the Blessed Mother I mean as all Dominicans do Aquinas believed that Mary was perfectly sanctified in the womb before her birth he thinks this sanctification was complete and entire given the angels declaration to Mary that she is full of grace she is full of grace long before the angel Gabriel declares it so he says it's reasonable to believe that Mary who brought forth the only begotten of the Father full of grace and truth received greater privileges of grace than all others a little later he'll put the argument in mora syllogistic terms he'll say this in every genus the nearer a thing is to the principle the greater the part which it has in the effect of that principle and translation the closer you are to a fire the more you will participate in the effect the heat of the fire now Christ is the principle of grace Aquinas continues authoritative ly as to his Godhead instrumentally as to his humanity but the Blessed Virgin Mary was nearest to Christ in his humanity because he received his human nature from her therefore it was due to her to receive a greater fullness of grace than all others st. Thomas also believes that Saint John the Baptist and the Prophet Jeremiah were sanctified in the womb based on the scriptural assertions the John the Baptist slept in his mother's womb at the visitation and that God told Jeremiah before I formed you in the womb I knew you he also notes that the church has historically celebrated as amazing even though the 13th century he's noting the liturgical life of the church that the church has always historically celebrated three nativities the nativity of st. John the Baptist the Nativity of Christ of course and the Nativity of Mary which suggests in his view that both Mary and John the Baptist were sanctified which is to say they were Saints when they came from the womb otherwise why would the church celebrate their birth liturgical II the church celebrates the feast of those who are sanctified lexer on deluxe credenzie the way we pray the law of our prayer is the law of our belief it often tells us what we believe now as a side note he mentions in passing in the 13th century that while some churches celebrated the conception of Mary in his day the church in Rome did not but nonetheless tolerated that other local churches did this is one of the reasons why he did not hold for the Immaculate Conception one wonders if he would have come to a different conclusion about the Immaculate Conception had the church in Rome been celebrating the liturgical feast of the conception of Mary now it doesn't particularly bother st. Thomas that the Scriptures do not mention Mary's perfect sanctification in the womb explicitly just like it's not a problem for us that there's no scriptural mention of her immaculate exception that's because the church had from the earliest centuries celebrated the assumption or the Dormition of the Blessed Mother body and soul into heaven Aquinas knows this in fact he cites st. Augustine who he says in his treatise on the Assumption the Virgin argues with reason that since her body was assumed into heaven and yet scripture does not relate this so it may be reasonably argued that she was sanctified in the womb for Saint Thomas the sanctification in the womb had an effect on the Blessed Mother her sanctification in the womb and we haven't gotten back to the Immaculate Conception yet I'm just still with st. Thomas here for st. Thomas's sanctification in the womb had an effect on the Blessed Mother she who is full of grace in a way that neither Saint John the Baptist's nor Jeremiah experienced from their in utero sanctification specifically st. John the Baptist and Jeremiah were still open to personal sin after they were born but st. Thomas is quite clear that Mary was given the spread the special personal privilege the special personal Grace never to sin she did not experience the fullness of sin st. Thomas Aquinas who didn't hold for the Immaculate Conception nonetheless believed that the Blessed Mother didn't experience concupiscence because of the measure of grace that she had been given in the womb he says it this way in her the foam aswer entirely fettered by her sanctification in the womb and then he believes when the son of God is conceived in her at the Incarnation the fullness are just taken away altogether so st. Thomas held fuller sort of two-step sanctification of the Blessed Mother a first in her womb and the foam asar fetter'd she just goes through life without experiencing all of that sort of discombobulation and distress and distraction that you and I experienced but then when she conceives the Word of God he held there just taken away entirely now but what we know what we know is that the formas were not merely fettered and then taken away this is what we now know that st. Thomas did not but because of the immaculate conception which is dogma the Blessed Mother never had the fullness to begin with in fact one of the reasons that st. Thomas stinks she had the fullness was because if she didn't then he'd have to hold that the grace of her sanctification the womb had the force of the grace of original justice and he didn't think it would be appropriate or fitting that there would be a person other than Jesus Christ walking around in the state of original justice and to be clear just to be cleared so we're all clear on this even after the suffering death and resurrection of Jesus Christ when you and I are baptized we still don't receive the grace of original justice those days are over I mean this is why we still struggle with distractions this is why we still grow old and still have arthritis and have bought problems with the body and eventually died those days are over the reason he holds that she has the fullness but that it's fettered and not able to work in hers because he could not hold that she was an original justice he wants to hold that she doesn't experience the foam is but that she still has it pious and I'd says on the contrary she doesn't have the fullness because she doesn't have anything of original sin so with the dogma of the Immaculate Conception everything that st. Thomas concludes about how the Blessed Mother experienced life is still true but in fact it's more wonderfully true than he himself could ever have expected Mary lived in this world in a state of original justice she is living as Adam and Eve before the fall and yet there's even more she's not simply living as Adam and Eve before the fall I mean other than the fact that she's surrounded by sinners and they were not she's not simply living as Adam and Eve before the fall she's living in fullness of grace which means that unlike Adam and Eve she has given the grace never actually to sin herself and this Aquinas is very strong about it's not only him who believes this is the church father this is a perennial teaching of the church here's what he says in the Summa quote the Blessed Virgin was chosen by God to be his mother therefore there can be no doubt that God by His grace made her worthy of that office to be the mother of God according to the words spoken to her by the angel you have found favor with God but she would not have been worthy to be the mother of God if she had ever sinned we must therefore confess simply that the Blessed Virgin committed no actual sin neither mortal nor venial he cites st. Agustin as an authority here augustine in his work on nature and grace as this quote in the matter of sin it is my wish to exclude absolutely all questions concerning the Holy Virgin Mary on account of the honor due to Christ for says she conceived and brought forth him who most certainly was guilty of no sin we know that an abundance of grace was given her that she might be in every way the Conqueror of sin this was a common theme with the Church Fathers and although it's not declared Dogma blessed pison life did not include this part in the lines of the Apostolic Constitution when he solemnly defined the Immaculate Conception strong argument can be made that the sinlessness of the Blessed Virgin Mary is dogma because it's part of the ordinary and universal Magisterium of the church which is to say it's something that a truth that simply has always been taught and held the Blessed Mother is sinless her whole life due to the graces given by God and an account of her son our Lord the Council of Trent actually assumed that this was the case and its decree on justification it declared quote if anyone says that a man once justified can send no more or lose grace and that therefore he that falls and sins was never truly justified or on the other hand that he is able during his whole life to avoid all sins even those that are venial except by a special privilege from God as the church holds in regard to the Blessed Virgin let him be anathema only of the Blessed Virgin do we hold that she had this special privilege the church generally only defines solemnly defines dogmas when the truths of those dogmas are called into question as were the truths of justification and grace during the Protestant Reformation I mean that's why there's a lot of canons and declarations on those topics the truth of the Immaculate Conception was a disputed point so Pope Pius tonight settled the matter but the truths that Mary was given a special gift of grace never to sin mortally or venial II has never been seriously called into question in the church and and and this doesn't mean that she's some sort of super woman it's because of the grace that was given to her this grace made her all the more free by reason of the force of original justice a grace Mary has because of her Immaculate Conception we have to hold that her love all of the things and people she loves are all rightly ordered her mind is subject to God her passions subject to reason and her body subject to her soul her loves are entirely aligned in the way that God always intended them to be for all of us she's not simply Eve before the fall because she has something that Eve does not have however Mary has that extra privilege never to sin actually Eve obviously didn't have that we wouldn't be here today with an original sin if she did so for instance when it comes to the Annunciation Saint Luke the event Saint Luke says that Mary was troubled and what the angel said say Thomas says that it's significant that she is troubled at what was said and not at the appearance of the angel because of her grace the grace at work in her Mary did not fear the divine she had no sinful fear Adam and Eve ate the fruit of the tree of good and not of knowledge of good and evil in the garden and they immediately hide from God the sinner the sinful mind is one that fears God in a sinful way and attempts to hide from him that's not Mary there st. Thomas the trouble or doubt in Mary at what is said has nothing of sinfulness in it not even venial sinfulness I mean when you and I doubt God it's at least a venial sin it's why we bring it to confession but this doubt of the Blessed Mother for st. Thomas was a doubt of wonder and here he's following church fathers like st. basil of the great Mary's love was so directed to grace sorry Mary's love was so directed in grace to God that she couldn't have said anything other than her Fiat let it be done unto me according to your word now does this mean that she's not free doesn't mean that she's an automaton or a robot of God absolutely not absolutely not st. Thomas would dismiss with prejudice any sort of thought of that it's a painfully modern and erroneous view of human freedom to assume that freedom is simply the ability to do this or to do that the simply the ability to make a choice one way or the other to choose between contraries saying that mary is full of grace and could not sin and that she could not have but given her Fiat suggests to many modern ears that she's not free but on the contrary for st. Thomas sin is not freedom it's a perversion of freedom what separates us from the animals is not that we can sin and we can choose our appetites but rather that we can know God and choose God by grace and love him in true freedom for st. Thomas the Christian life is not simply a choice it's not that God simply reveals himself lays out all the facts of who he is and then we simply say oh yes I believe no for st. Thomas even saying yes to God requires grace following God needs grace I cannot accept grace without the help of grace God's initiative with regard to us as always primary and first being United to God is something that is not does not come is not a given to our human faculties it's given by grace originally the grace of original justice in one way and then in a new and more proper more poignant way through sanctifying grace God works in a person in the person he sanctifies as he brings her will and his will into union he unites them perfectly His grace moves in the will so that the person is still in fact freely choosing but actually choosing the highest good for which the will was actually made grace doesn't oppress the human will or human freedom it actually makes human freedom to be what it actually is to do what is created to do the free and joyful and loving pursuit of God so it's not simply that the Blessed Mother couldn't have said no to the undone see a ssin it said she simply wouldn't have said no there is nothing else in her life that distracts her from following God who she knows is her heart's desire and the very reason she was created since Mary has not one ounce of sin her will is not the least deluded or diverted from its true purpose moreover she has given the fullness of grace to actually choose him and not simply to pursue him I mean she is for lack of a better word the truly liberated woman she's the truly liberated person because where there is grace there is freedom and she's full of grace moreover it's important to note that the incarnation was not a surprise to the Blessed Mother truly since sin was not part of her life st. Thomas hold and so there was simply no static between her passions in her mind there were no bodily issues with her height her highest prayers or her highest thoughts she was not subject to random distractions in her thoughts and prayers because the human person isn't meant to be she would not have been physically overwhelmed with exhaustion when praying or reading or studying if she were tired and she could not pray or study because she in her everything was properly ordered she would have just gone to bed and taken a nap without feeling any guilt she was a virtuous so she is a virtuous woman Mary so Mary could study and learn without all the sinful effects you and I deal with distractions sinful thoughts daydreams her memory and her imagination would therefore would have also been free and pure when she set herself to study to know God more and more in the scripture which she undoubtedly did she would have been single-minded in that purpose discussing the Annunciation one of Aquinas objectors argues that the Blessed Mother didn't need the Annunciation because she already believed in Christ st. Thomas accepts that premise is true he thinks that she already does know who Christ is he follows st. Agustin on this he says that the Blessed Virgin did indeed believe explicitly in the future incarnation I don't know how many of the church fathers held this view but certainly seeing ambrose and san agustin did i mean it's not unique to aquinas but it makes sense that the Virgin Mary would have figured out God's intention to become incarnate simply by reading the prophecies and wisdom literature of the Old Testament throughout the Gospels for example the evangelists are always pointing out the ways that Christ fulfills prophecies he did this to fill fulfill what Jeremiah the Prophet had said he did that to fulfill what Isaiah and said the church very quickly came to understand that the prophecies were all about Jesus Christ but this was after the effect because the Apostles and the evangelists and their successors had dull sinful minds the Blessed Mother however could read the prophecies and she could understand them rightly so she knew the Incarnation would happen what she did not know and what she would never presume because there's no pride of life in her was that it would be she herself who would become the mother of God st. Thomas is a direct quote from st. Thomas he says being humble she did not think such high things about herself and so the Annunciation was for her more of an instruction on the matter that she herself would be the mother of God but it was not an instruction on the Incarnation she expected that elsewhere in the Summa st. Thomas says about the Blessed Mother being stunned at the Annunciation he says she stunned because quote to a humble mind nothing is more astonishing than to hear about its own greatness Mary was a humble genius she's a genius because of the grace given to her because she has the fullness of the seven gifts of the Spirit because her body and soul are perfectly united and aligned all directed to God that she is without sin and that she does not live with can come Kupa since the fullness of sin means in the end that she must also be even in this life before the assumption she must also have been radiantly beautiful because Aquinas understands the human person to be a composite of body and soul the body is not a thing and the soul another thing the two are principles of the one human person the soul is not only the principle of life but the form of the body that we don't subscribe to a Cartesian dualism for st. Thomas the soul is not the ghost in the machine or the captain operating the ship the soul is what makes the body to be what it is and the soul itself is a spiritual substance that's meant to be in the body and in fact it's not that the spiritual for st. Thomas it's not that the spiritual exists alongside or within the material it's actually the other way the other way around the soul doesn't exist in the body for st. Thomas the body exists within the soul it is the soul that gives the body its shape its form its purpose the soul makes the body to be what it is Aquinas is so strong on this that he thinks that the body and soul mutually implicate each other while the soul depends on the body for various things like knowledge and movement the soul also affects the body it's all the nonverbals that are written on the body and it's treatise on the angels st. Thomas says that the angels can't read your heart but they can read your body and they can read your body very well Aquinas is so strong on the unity of the body and soul that he believes that after we die and we are God willing in the beatific vision without our bodies and before the resurrection of the Dead that were not entirely persons because the soul still is ordered to the body now this is of course is made up by the fact that you're in the beatific vision but in fact for st. Thomas once the body resurrects the body is glorified in its union with the soul in the beatific vision because the grace of the beatific vision would necessarily radiate from the soul into the body and make the body fit or proportioned to the beatific vision now the Blessed Mother did not have the beatific vision in life she does now of course because she's assumed into heaven but in life she did not Christ humanity has to be a 2-bit vision but not the Blessed Mother nonetheless she has the fullness of grace working in her soul and this necessarily must have radiated to her body precisely because she is she has neither original sin nor the fullness of original sin which means that she was physically beautiful which of course raises all sorts of questions about all the sinners in her life I mean I think about all the men that she would have encountered and say Thomas has a wonderful thought about this and as far as I can tell he only he only writes us in one place and it's very first work his commentary on st. Peter Lombard sentences here's what he says this is a direct quote in the Blessed Virgin the inclination of the FOMA swooz wholly taken away we now know they were not there to begin with but at both as to venial sin and as to mortal sin and what is greater this is the important line he says what is greater as it is said sanctifying grace not only repressed illicit desires in her but also had efficacy and others such that although she was physically beautiful no man was ever able to covered her already in life she is a cause of grace and joy and others I mean I imagine what it would have been like when she went out in public say to the market and men noticed her and noticed her beauty how they couldn't but help to bring themselves to admire her but yet despite themselves were never able to lust after her to desire her in any way that was illicit or impure I mean what would be going on in their heads I imagine all they could think of was here comes that beautiful girl I'm sure when the Blessed Virgin Mary walked into a room or into a market everybody knows us her because her grace is simply overflowed and they noticed her in the most beautiful and best way possible Fulton sheen says that the Blessed Mother is noticed by men in the way that women often want to be noticed and cherished Mary's beauty was an avenue of grace for those around her and because she did not have pride of life she herself would never have given a second thought to her own beauty and how wonderful that was she was not walking around thinking look at me I'm full of grace note to that although he was a just man st. Joseph himself would have benefited from the graces of Mary overflowing to him she's a worker of grace and a wonder and those around her even before the Incarnation and even before the Assumption nothing that she does is by sheer willpower or discipline or according to her own merit everything she is she is because of the grace of God at work and her because of her son come to find out this is exactly what God wants for every one of us to live our human existence fully free and the fullness of grace of course there are all sorts of questions that we can still ask and why didn't he do this for Adam and Eve why he doesn't do it for you and me why he didn't make the world one where we could not sin but still be free all these he could have done those are important and fascinating questions and Saints like Augusta and Aquinas and plenty more grope for the answers to those kinds of questions but all of those questions are remain aside from this fact and here's where I will conclude tonight that when we think you and I about the human race we should not first think of Adam and Eve the first man and woman as the paradigm the Blessed Mother on the contrary is what God always intended the human race to be at its best free and Grace fully alive and the love of God genius and thought but humble of mind and absolutely beautiful in pure and grace-filled ways thank you thank you very much father Petry for that beautiful and graceful talk I think it's done a lot of good for those watching at home at least watching the YouTube comments it seems like a lot of people have really reacted with with a lot of gratitude for for those reflections so thank you we have time now for some questions and our first question comes from Dean Menezes from UCLA so Dean please go ahead can you elaborate on the the conception of a free well as freedom to do through the God sure because I know some people consider like the freewill defense like the ability to choose good and evil to be a solution to the problem of evil or yep so I would simply say that the conception I was asked a question to elaborate on freewill as the ability simply to choose that is a very distinctly modern conception which you don't really find in Western thought at least until the 14th or 15th century that Western thought even non-christian thoughts and thinking of Aristotle you know always sees freedom as simply another power of the human person and always wants to say wants to begin first with the question what are our powers for the power of sight is to see the power of intellect is to think to pursue the truth and so the power of the will is to pursue the good right and so and God is the highest good now in some sense all creatures whether you're a dog an electron a goose or a tree are pursuing the good which is God he is the good of all of creation what separates us from creatures is that we pursue the good not only at what not as automatons but as free choosing individuals who not only know what can know what the good actually is a dog doesn't know what it's good is it does whatever you tell them to do like you know we not only know what the good is which is God we can make choices by the grace of God to get us to the good and we can see the relationship so there's there's a greater glory and goodness for God in giving us the power to choose him and to love him at the same time giving us the grace to do so than it is simply to keep us somehow irrational and non choosing you get to this question of freedom as a choice between this or that because increasingly as society starts to move away from God we get into the Enlightenment to the rise of Sciences of the hard sciences we get into questions of politics and compromise and social compacts and man's the entire of coming to understand man is moved from being pursuing excellence and goodness and what he's created to pursue that those questions aren't even asked anymore the questions always are now the least common denominator while freedom is simply the power to choose and my rights and your rights don't clash you know so that that's that's a that's very discombobulated answer but that's how that's how it sort of happens thanks very much for the Petri we have time for a few more questions another our next question comes from Joseph Moynihan who's a student at st. John's Seminary so Joseph please go ahead thank you Father for your talk that was very beautiful and enlightening so I have a two-fold question the first one is with respect to Aquinas it seems you know topologically fitting that the new Eve Mary would be at least in the state of original justice is there a reason why Aquinas who seems ordinarily draws out typological figures from the Old Testament pointing towards Christ why he didn't go so far to say that of Our Lady was the new leaf you say that's maybe like an indicator of humility on his part and the second question is given that our time on earth before before death is a time of merit did Our Lady merit that she grow in in charity and grace like was she a greater having a greater degree of grace or charity Pentecost than at the Annunciation thank you yeah thank you thank you Joseph I would say two things I would say to the first question on whether or not why st. Thomas seemed to be reluctant on ascribing original justice to the Blessed Virgin Mary I am sure he speaks of her as the new Eve I'm a guy I don't know exactly where but I have a hard time imagining that he doesn't I mean this is this is really built into the church's tradition and language I think it really boils down to he wants he does use this language all the time that it somehow derogatory to Christ so I really think he kind of he thought that there really should only be one person living in original justice you know walking the earth but see when you read what he to say though about her it's quite clear he wants he comes right up to the line he wants her not to experience and he can keep us since any of the foments he wants him to be fully sanctified but not in original justice you see and I think because we now know what the dogma that she is immaculately conceived I think we have to sort of now push him over the line and say that yeah you were right now okay take this other step as for merit yes I'm clearly we always increase in merit when we are participating in cooperating with God's grace so she does is I probably would use the language perfection she's increasingly perfecting the graces at work in her and so that we see the supreme perfection of this not only a Pentecost but in the assumption of the fact that she now sort of sits at the right hand of her son you know in heaven so the coronation of heaven as Queen of Heaven in earth so I would price peak more perfection rather than increase of grace that she did she just perfecting them more and more in her life excellent well our next question comes from Alex Erickson also through zoom so Alex please go ahead father thank you for your question my my main question is going back to what you said in the beginning about the different goods of human nature if we could sum something like a fourth I guess a good of human nature as our capacity for friendship it seems like this would be the case because as you know the different mystical writers tell us our final end is intimate union with God and this needs to be reflected and human friendships and in most especially in marriage so I'm wondering if we could call this capacity for friendship a kind of fourth good of human nature you know how we break these things up of course every theologian can break them up differently how st. Thomas breaks them up it's not going to be the same as say some of the mystical writers clearly as you probably know st. Thomas is very strong on friendship especially marriages friendship in the Summa contra Gentiles he calls marriage the highest friendship in the Summa theologia he refers to the theological virtue of charity as friendship with God I think when you look at the three goods of human nature that he he he outlines the principles of our nature our intellect our will second the inclination to pursue perfection and and then the third which is the gift of original justice which we don't have he says that original sin destroys that third one because we've just lost a relationship with God that right orders of original justice the inclination to perfection is weakened and that our principles are essentially untouched in some way because our nature doesn't change I would say that friendship for him comes from those other two it's sort of it's part and parcel of the first and second we're capable of friendship because of intellect and will and that and then secondly perfection is part of our pursuit I'm sorry friendship is part of our pursuit of perfection I think that's where st. Thomas would put it instead of putting it in its own category well father Petrie we have another question this comes from brandy Murli through YouTube she asks this st. Anne was conceived without sin is that correct and would that mean that st. Anne's mother saw a man being the mother of the Blessed Virgin Mary would that mean that st. Anne's mother was also conceived without sin and does this get us into a long line of mothers conceived without sin or how do we address that issue of being conceived without sin or and and how that works with with Christ and the Blessed Virgin okay so I don't think there's ever been any suggestion that mary's mother st. Anne was conceived without original sin I mean there are traditions about st. Anne and Joe come you know we don't have we know they're not mentioned in Scripture one great little work I would recommend if you're interested in this would be the infancy gospel of James it's a it's at one of these pseudo Gospels the fake gospel it was sort of circulating around in the second and second century I think but it's when a lot of Christians read even if they didn't think it was true gospel it kind of gives you how people thought about Mary's childhood and an engine and Anne and Joachim I attended I think it's in there where we hear that Saint Anne's mother was barren and so there was a sort of a miraculous that she was able to to bear to bear a child but Saint Anne was not immaculately conceived and I don't think it's necessarily that even for us to say because the Blessed Mother was immaculately conceived therefore st. Anne was canned I think the chain begins with the Blessed Mother by that particular explicit grace of the Immaculate Conception that that's where God sort of imagine if you imagined a long line of mothers one for the other is God put has put his finger on this moment in history this is the one that's immaculately conceived without original sin excellent father Petrie we have another question in fact a lot of very interesting questions coming to us through zooming YouTube so our next question is from an some LaFave who is one of our chapter leaders at the University of Oregon and he asks this question through a youtube comment in what way is Mary a mediator of grace for us how should we be thought how should she be thought of in this capacity in relation to Jesus what would you as a toe must say about that Marius mediator of grace I think because she because she is full of grace and she is that line from st. Thomas that she is closest to his humanity because he receives his human nature from her she therefore becomes the prime intercessor for us with Jesus Christ in that sense I would say she is the mediator of grace that we should the whole history of saints and their relationship with the Blessed Mother indicates that she has this intercessory power to actually we see at the wedding feast of Cana in fact who actually command might be too strong of a word but to really direct her son's grace he's given her this as a gift to direct the merits of His grace and the gifts of His grace to others excellent okay the next question this comes to us also through zoom from Lisa SOLAS she asks this does the soul of an individual exist before the body or is it created at the moment of conception could you clarify that especially when we're talking about the Blessed Virgin Mary and the conception also perhaps of Christ that's a very that's actually a very good question and you know before Christianity even and some early some early Christians had were confused on this someone like Plato would have thought that the soul pre-exists that the the soul exists up sort of perfectly in heaven and it's kind of then put into the body as a sort of trap a sort of prison and occasionally we still have run into Christians thinking about this the soul this way Aristotle however argued that the soul was created at the moment it becomes the form of the body and that's really the Christian position I mean it's the Christian position we understand that the soul does not pre exist that it comes as soon as the body as soon as the matter is there the soul is there now was st. Thomas because he didn't know biology as much as as well as you and I do he kind of thought that the human soul would come in a little bit later in the pregnancy you know but when the body was kind of sophisticated enough because the soul is the form of Eric of a very complicated body so he really didn't think that you know when it's what we now today would call like you know just a recently fertilized recently conceived that you could say there's a human soul there the church however has never categorically espoused that in fact the church always says no we have to respect the process of life we do not for example commit abortion but st. Thomas I think today would argue and knowing what we now know about biology and what we tell know about DNA and about how how fertilized how a fetus themself directs in many ways the divisions and how fascinating that is and how the DNA maps that out that's clearly complicated enough I think that's the human soul sort of guiding all of that so short answer that was a long answer to a short question the short answer is that the soul does not pre exist the body it comes into existence at the moment the body the material is there yeah thanks again for the P P another question and we're running out of time here so we'll see how many if we can get in maybe two more questions this one comes to us from assumes from Kyle James who asked this what may we be able to know about the relationship between Mary and the holy spirit what does it mean for it can we say that she's the spouse of the Holy Spirit how is the Holy Spirit operative in Mary through her lifetime given that she already had received the very great grace of being conceived without sin and not experiencing temptations to sin so could you comment on that that's very good I can say just a few things on this I would I would want to leave it to my my Dominican brothers who are much more dogmatic theologians to begin speaking about the mission and the Trinity of the Holy Spirit and the Trinitarian relations the church has long had the title that Mary is the spouse of the Holy Spirit and so if the Holy Spirit is a sort of mover of grace if you will the agent of grace and in our lives I think we have to hold that not she's the spouse who's intimately in communion with the Holy Spirit at all times and so that she she simply doesn't move without the Holy Spirit in similar ways it's how you and I move when we're living in grace every good thing we do we do in union with through with and in the Holy Spirit so that Mary is that I would say in spades that she is that in the fullest possible way that a human person could be in relationship with the Holy Spirit in this life great okay let me just throw out one final thought on that very point if you want more information on that we have a actually there's a podcast on the two mystic Institute podcasts if you're not already listening to the t-i podcasts look at your podcast app and and find it it's actually talk that that I gave an entire hour long lecture basically on that subject of the conception of Christ by the Holy Spirit which is a very very interesting theological issue last question for the Petrie this comes from Harold Gomez through zoom how is it possible for our lady to have been able to suffer and for that matter for Jesus the Lord Jesus also to suffer if the soul was free from all kind of disorder right so this is where it's it's I kind of threw that in as probably if you caught that in the talk that while Mary Ann our Lord both have original justice they're not exactly like Adam and Eve because they're not living in paradise they're living in a world surrounded by sinners and so they they they have an effect of sinners you know the sinner sinner could smack smack them and in our Lord's gaze you'll whip them and crucify him so the body naturally feels it has sensible sensitive reactions what it does mean though for them is that those bodily reactions did not sort of affect we're always directed to reasons it's right that when you're whipped that you should cry out that you should cry in pain that's how the body works what would be sinful is if that bodily experience became that an internal factor in somehow doubting God or somehow sinning and hating the person hitting you or whipping you all of them also that's how they suffer they do suffer because they're surrounded by sinners in a fallen world and they're just not that's not them but they but they don't suffer bodily in a way that makes them sin in the slightest not even being a only

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Published: Tue May 19 2020