Anti-Camping or Anti-Homeless? - Ep. 5.457

hello welcome what's gonna Latos law I'm Steve Leto got a lot of requests for this one in Lacey Washington they've apparently passed a law about camping on public property and like I said a lot of calls but also a lot of confusion has arisen because of this story and so I went looked and I found the story all over the Internet it's said to be probably about a dozen people and it says in one headline from my Northwest which is the website lacy approves ban an unsanctioned homeless camping but let's be careful here lacy city council approved the ban an unsanctioned public camping Thursday targeted at the city's growing issues with homeless encampments the ordinance effectively bans tents as well as the storage of personal property in any park Street or public lot violators could be found guilty of misdemeanor fined up to $1,000 and jail time up to 90 days for violating the statute but here's the thing it effectively bans tents as well as a storage of personal property in any Park Street or public lot I've had people tell me that they they said well you know tents have been outlawed and lacy or if they catch you in possession of a sleeping bag you'll be arrested no it effectively bans tents as well as the storage of personal property in any Park Street or public lot ok so the measure also makes certain allowances if it's clear that someone violating the new ban is homeless a police officer is then tasked with figuring out if there's shelter space available to house them instead if shelters are all full no punishments are issued so in other words they're saying look if you're tenting out of desperation you say it's because you're homeless if there's a homeless shelter over here oh that's got a bed that you can go to go there if there's no room in a homeless shelter then guess what you won't be punished for tenting where you are this comes two years after a similar measure failed to pass the lazy lazy City Council after dozens of people their voice their criticism this time around things went more smoothly with the band getting unanimous approval a seize of council the law enforcement expressed port for this measure noting that it gives up officers the tools they need to legally engage with homeless campers opponents argue that it essentially made homelessness a crime well you know the weird thing is and I sympathize with the people who are homeless but you can find now in many of the warmer climates permanent settlements of people with tents and shopping carts and bins full of stuff who set up camps in places that are public property and some of them have gotten out of control and by out of control I mean there are literally outbreaks of diseases there rat infested they're out of control and in the municipality has got to do something to keep this stuff from getting out of hand and you know I've seen stories in the internet about you know businesses that have a problem because there's so much that's around in the neighborhood with a conduct business that it harms their business and you know if if you have a municipal park okay you know I live in a city the city has a park I can go to the park and I can sit there and read a book or I can walk around I could play frisbee if I could find somebody would do that with me is the trails of the Parker I might ride my bicycle here I might go running there but the parks not designed for somebody to camp there so if I woke up one day and went to my park and I found somebody who just pitched a tent and decided to live in the park most people see less that's not right yes that's that's not that park is therefore there are places you can go camping if you want to go camping and if you are homeless there are things you can do if you're homeless and there might be homeless shelters for instance or charities that you can appeal to but the idea that like well I'm desperate I'm homeless therefore I get to camp in a city park there's a problem there it's a conflict there and I think that most people recognize it and again like I said I'm not saying that we should take the homeless people and lock them up and put them in jail all that does is it it creates a bunch of other problems and again makes someone else pay to put the roof over their head and if that's what we're complaining about is that in other words we'll pay to put a jail roof over their head we won't help put another roof over their head jail is not cheap okay so jailing a homeless people is obviously not the answer but also allowing people to camp in the city park is not the answer either so you know when you look at this law and you ask is this law tailored to solve a problem and is it tailored properly it looks like it might be the ordinance effectively bans tents as well as the storage of personal property in any Park Street or public lot now I'm assuming and I have I actually looked to see if I could find a copy of the statute I'm assuming that that does not mean that a police officer could could pull you over and see that you've got a tent in the back seat of your car and go oh you've got a tent and and your car is on a public street therefore you're in violation of the statute I don't think that's the case and if that was a way to interpret this obviously that'd be wrong but I don't think it's what they're getting it here they're saying that if you break the tent out and erect the tent on a street park or public lot then you're in violation is law so the wall looks to me like it makes sense but here's the other thing the law is not currently enforced so anybody who tells you oh they're already arresting people because no no hasn't happened yet the city won't begin enforcement until it develops more of a structured plan concerning where exactly to send homeless campers who are in violation of the measure officials described the band as a first step with more planning on the way for its implementation Seattle meanwhile dealt with its own issues regarding homeless camps and empowered its navigation team to help clear problematic encampments throughout the city the city's Navi marieee cently expanded to 38 total members as it ramps up its homeless outreach efforts no such team currently exists in Lacey so 38 people in Seattle whose job it is is to go out and try to work with people who are homeless living on the streets in tents or encampments or whatever and do what they can to get these people off the streets and you know it always a problem there's certain areas that people congregate to I guess said there's sections of Los Angeles I recently read an article about drainage systems underneath Las Vegas I've been to Florida before and I've seen places where people set up the shop underneath overpasses and so on and it's a problem and as a society you know you know you have to ask yourself on some level you know how do we take care of people who are in a position to take care of themselves and I'm not calling for socialism or communism or anything like that but you have to realize that these situations exist and something has to be done and if your solution is well that's criminalize them and lock them up that's one cost you some money is there a cheaper solution is there a cheaper solution and and the choice by the way is not zero dollars or lock them up okay assuming that locking people up has a price tag on it and zero is zero there is a right a sliding scale is there something down here we can do there's something down here we can do and and there very well could be so I'm not proposing a solution to this problem but I'm merely saying that I understand what the city of Lacey is getting at here when they are saying we don't want people camping in public parks or public property or in streets or on sidewalks and so on that's not what those things are for but if these people are in the community and they need help let's find a way to help them okay so I've got no problem with this law so long as it's being enforced in a way that makes sense to solve this problem so you know it's it's it's an interesting situation I mentioned before I've read a lot of books someone books behind me I've in fact read and I've got some books here in the history of economics and so on structure everyday life Ferdinand Fernanda brought out wonderful wonderful history book I can't remember it was in his book or it may have been in another book but I remember reading an article or reading a section and it talks about how there have been interesting origins to the idea of helping out those in our society who don't have the advantages we have and I know there's people out there right now who are perking up getting ready to start typing angry comments but you understand that there are economic reasons why you might help somebody at a cost to you in other words there might be a reason where it makes economic sense on my part to in essence spend money on someone else and you might say see that makes no sense at all and I can give you two examples from history there were times in our history where people lived in homes that were made out of wood and had thatched roofs and if you have a bunch of homes tightly packed together made out of wooden structures with thatched roofs and people heated with stoves and fires it was not uncommon to have fires that would burn down a house and then of course burned down the neighbor's houses and it would be a fairly regular occurrence I mean you've heard of the Great Fire of London for instance you know the fires have been 80s you know throughout mankind's history and so there would come a time when people would say you know we can stop these houses from burning down like this if we use things that aren't so flammable such as a slate roof on a structure if we have if we have walls made out of something like brick walls or stone walls and a slate roof nothing is gonna burn what of course happens when you put a slate roof on your structure and your neighbors got a thatched roof on his and his roof catches on fire because he couldn't afford a slate roof or whatever the other material might be and you will soon discover that when the neighbor on this side of you burns his house his house burns down it might harm you even though you did everything right and so there have been occasions in history where they've documented this where people have actually said you know something we all need to go to these different material building materials make these homes and buildings less flammable and there's the one or two people go I'd like to but I can't afford to and the other people go it's in our best interest to actually help these people because it will help all of us okay and another interesting example that I have to give and it's not quite perhaps as generous sounding as that but there were times in Europe in particular where they had walled cities a city would be walled in and they would do that a bunch of reasons but but largely to protect the inhabitants the people who lived in the city would be protected that way from animals for one thing it might come in at night looking for food but also from people who didn't live there people who are traveling around for instance you know and so it was not uncommon that at the evenings right before they closed the city gates you would go out to city gates and you'd find people in town who had access food that they're going to discard or was probably gonna go bad by the next day and they would actually say by the way we're giving away free food right outside the city gates you put the free food out step inside the gates and close the gates and that assured you that every evening all the people who didn't belong in the village were outside they were being fed and one of the things you're looking for him they came into town his food which they probably couldn't afford and so if you've got beggars or people in town who can't afford food and they might be tempted to steal it take it outside of town dump it there and say hey guys free food walk out close the gates go home and the interesting thing about that is you go that's a very very you know blatant way of bribing people to leave town and you say yeah it is it is but you could also look at and say hey something if you asked them what are you looking for they go food give them the food and the people who are giving the food do the math in their heads which you know which costs me more I can take the food out the surplus food out and give it to these people and it will make me sleep better at night or I can hang on to the food and I hope I can sell it tomorrow if doesn't go bad and I may have to spend a night wondering about the people who are wandering on the streets at night who don't live here so is that socialism is it you know some kind of welfare on some level it depends what you call it call it anything you want but you can also look at the facts of what they're doing and the results they got so these are questions that you have to ask yourself and like I said you know if you take homeless people and say you can't sleep here tonight well they got to sleep somewhere and if you say let's put them in jail look at the cost of putting somebody in jail and ask yourself if that money wasn't better spent so that situation lacy hope you enjoyed it question accounts put them below let's talk you

Channel: Steve Lehto

Views: 21,068

Rating: 4.910028 out of 5

Keywords: lemon law, michigan lemon law, lemon law attorney, lemon law lawyer, http://www.lehtoslaw.com

Id: 4kVvdBeCQaU

Length: 14min 34sec (874 seconds)

Published: Tue Aug 27 2019