ALEXANDER THE GREAT: Alexander Hamilton

today on uncommon knowledge dueling visions of America funding for this program is provided by the John M Olin Foundation [Music] welcome to uncommon knowledge I'm Peter Robinson our show today Alexander Hamilton and the making of modern America a conversation with biographer Ron chair now some of our founders have achieved a larger and more enduring place in American history than others George Washington the father of our country Thomas Jefferson the author of the Declaration of Independence John Adams the man who fought so tenaciously for independence in the first place some would argue however and indeed Ron chair now will argue that it was Alexander Hamilton who had the most to do with making the America that we now inhabit Ron chernow books include the house of Morgan the Warburg's and Titan a biography of john d rockefeller chair now latest book is entitled simply Alexander Hamilton two quotations first Yale historian Edmund Morgan quote Hamilton did not think much of the Constitution he had helped to create two years before the jewel that killed him he wrote he was quoting Hamilton himself now every day proves to me more and more that this American world was not made for me close quote now listen to Princeton president and later US President Woodrow Wilson Hamilton was quote a very great man but not a great American close quote great man but not a great American uncomfortable with this society he called into being how do you reply to those observations I was trying the Woodrow Wilson quote very very odd because Hamilton was the man more than anybody else who forged the basic building blocks of the American government I think aside from George Washington nobody did more to weld these thirteen squabbling States into the powerful and unified nation today's first Treasury secretary he created the great bulk of the federal government from from scratch so I think that the denigrate Hamilton because he was the one founder who came from outside of the United States or from outside of the North American holidays is a bit of a blow onto something are they spotting something in his makeup but he didn't feel comfortable Eddie he felt we well he felt at ease in New York but somehow he didn't feel comfortable comfortable how do you know yes yes they are and I think that what it is is that I think we feel as Americans that optimism goes with the territory there's such something glandular about that kind of faith we hear that music that optimistic music we hear with Jefferson we hear with Teddy Roosevelt hearing with Woodrow Wilson franklin roosevelt ronald reagan hamilton was perhaps more European more pessimistic more downbeat about human nature in in general and I think that this owes something to the fact that he grew up in the Caribbean he grew up on two Islands Nevis and st. Croix that read Amin aided by slavery dominated by sugar plantations I think was exposed to an enormous amount of brutality as a child experienced in what was an utter brutality himself as a child so the fact that he ended up with a darker and more despairing vision that we tend to associate with American politicians is perhaps not surprising let me you right Hamilton quote embodied an enduring archetype the obscure immigrant who comes to America recreates himself and succeeds despite a lack of proper birth and breeding close quote tell us how he gets from the Caribbean to America okay he spends a third of his life in the Caribbean he is an illegitimate orphan kid born on the British island of Nevis spends his adolescence on st. Croix his father deserts the family when he's 11 his mother dies of tropical fever 13 he's formed at for his cousin who commits suicide a year later he is an orphan impoverished frustrated clerk in st. Croix when at age 17 monster hurricane hits the island he writes for the local newspaper a description of it of such precocious eloquence that the local merchants band together to educate him at King's College later Columbia in New York and by nice historical coincidence he arrived shortly after the Boston Tea Party and is as an undergraduate swept up into the American Revolution that's it he arrives here at the age of 18 1773 1777 when he's 22 this is four years later he's aid to camp to General Washington in the Continental Army so 18 years in total obscurity in the Caribbean and then within four years of arriving in this country yeah it's just it's a starburst how did that happen this is like writing about boatside it's yes yes that's actually I hadn't thought of it but that's exactly right because he self created his self from done that already as an undergraduate he's writing these famous polemical essays he's electrifying crowds with speeches he's drilling with students in a nearby church ugh Hamilton was the sort of person that people said within seconds you would know that he was somebody of extraordinary talent and intelligence and charm he just radiated something special even while he was an undergraduate he was appointed a captain of an artillery company he was extremely brave that a special relationship with danger enjoyed courting danger but he did such an extraordinary job in terms of drilling his artillery company that first it comes to the attention of John Jay and general Alexander MacDougall then general Nathanael Greene General Henry Knox general Sterling and General George Washington both instantly spots something extraordinary about this young man one part of the enduring archetype is the immigrant who comes here and realizes what a treasure that's coupled what an opportunity he has here so he's willing to put himself forward there's a kind of energy that's relived the way I sense it and there's a kind of energy that's released when it gets to this country well absolutely when he takes nothing for granted that other people who would tend to that's it but when he's in the Caribbean he's trapped on a rung he's trapped on a very low run without any possibility in that static Society of ever escaping where is what happens here he's intoxicated with the sense of an infinite pasta not only because he is in North America but in a revolutionary situation the old order has swept the way and there is an urgent need for talented people in an urgent need for original thinkers that's why somebody like Hamilton who had a later period in history might have had an endowed chair at a university maybe would have been a biotech executive maybe would have been doing LBAs at that moment if you had were an original political thinker as well as a great organizational mind it was at one moment where you were likely to be swept right into the center of events a - next Hamilton and Jefferson and the struggle to define a new country at the Constitutional Convention and during the ratification controversies that follow and indeed throughout the presidencies of Washington Adams and Jefferson the animating struggle in American politics lies in the tension between two visions of the new country and what it ought to become Hamilton on the one hand Jefferson on the other give us a brief version of those two competing visions two competing visions okay Jefferson wanted an America that would be a nation of yeoman farmers and agrarian Eden would have strong States a very weak central government he believed in strict construction of the Constitution limited government and one of the House of Representatives to be the major body in the federal government Hamilton had a vision of a bustling diversified economy would not only have traditional agriculture but manufacturing stock exchanges banks corporations wanted weak states strong federal government within the federal government he saw it being led by a vigorous president he didn't think that the House of Representatives was cut out for leadership and favored a very broad interpretation of the Constitution Jefferson saw soul living on small farms and in villages Hamilton had a vision of great cities you described Jefferson's vision and quoting you now a fantasy of American of America as an agrarian paradise with limited manufacturing he thought that agriculture was egalitarian while manufacturing would produce a class-conscious Society now I'm bound to ask you aren't you and wasn't Hamilton being a little hard on Jefferson isn't it accurate to say that the great bulwark of the Athenian democracy with the modest land holders and that the yeoman farmers in Britain contributed to the steps toward Liberty it was it was plausible what Jefferson was arguing was it not well I think that it was a fantasy even then because really well the gala Terry envisioned very very nice on paper was really undercut by the reality of slavery which was of course the most class-conscious if you will as system hamilton is f is an abolitionist almost from the get-go hamilton is an abolitionist even when he is in the Continental Army champions the very audacious plan to emancipate any slave who's willing to pick up a musket for the Continental cause he Co fans the first abolitionist Society it's one of the ironies I think of his life that he was always derided as this fierce snob and aristocrat when in fact he had the best attitude I think not only in terms of blacks but Native Americans Jews and a lot of other marginalized groups at the time here's a puzzle that I can't quite get my mind right by the end of Washington's presidency indeed during Washington's presidency Jefferson and Madison organized their supporters into a political party the Republicans Hamilton and his supporters organizes the federal safe got political parties and the competition is personal bitter it's extremely rough and what I've never understood the country was enormous and really quite sparsely populated why couldn't they simply Hamilton and the Federalists to be happy with the way Boston and New York and to some extent Philadelphia are unfolding we agrarians can attempt to build our paradise down south why would why I don't understand why the struggle was so bitter well I spent a lot of time thinking about this you're right it was it was a nation of four million people it would have been easy enough to live in that lib I think that what we have to understand is that all of these people were schooled politically by a revolutionary situation and the kinds of people who emerge in revolutionary situations are fiery passionate people who have exceptional skills in terms of polemics in terms of invective they're not people these are not optimizers they're not compromisers different attics I mean they were brilliant glorious wonderful fanatics but they are fanatics and also what happens I think after any revolution of course revolution was still being made was still being defined after the Revolutionary War was over there's always in the aftermath of a revolution a search for backsliders if I search for people who will betray the revolution there's always this emphasis on revolutionary purity which in the case of France the French Revolution that search for revolution a pure purity will actually become bloodthirsty luckily we avoided that young but you're right there clearly is the most extraordinary animus that makes the politics of the 1790s look even more vicious in partisan than what we're experiencing today on to Hamilton's years as the first secretary of the Treasury 1790 George Washington's secretary of the Treasury Hamilton issues the report on credit and writes States like individuals who observe their engagements that is to say pay what they owe are respected and trusted while the reverse is the fate of those who pursue an opposite conduct now in 1790 why is that such a remarkable statement well um when Hamilton becomes the first Treasury secretary Oh we were a bankrupt nation we had financed the revolution through a borrowed money and there were a lot of people who wanted to repudiate the debt that was such a normal burden who is who's wealthy enough to lend money to the Continental Congress if it is up for the revolution they were rich merchants here we had borrowed in the capital markets of Europe we had borrowed far and wide Hamilton decides to pay off the debt it is so burdensome that 55 cents on the dollar in the 1790s will go to servicing that debt so that this was no small sacrifice and it's very hard to get people to pay taxes and half the tax money is going to go into petty offering our creditors Hamilton early on recognized that political military power are predicated on financial power and that unless he could establish us credit by paying off the debt we never would major political and military power and I think that he was right and the Hamilton really sets up sets the stage for industrial development in the 19th century where we're very dependent upon the capital markets of London Amsterdam there let me quote you to yourself again here if he faces a specific situation in which as you mentioned a lot of people had lent money to the government they've been given paper in return indeed you mentioned that Revolutionary War soldiers accept IOUs as their pay despairing of ever getting paid back lots of people turn this paper over to speculators for as little as fifteen cents on a dollar so the situation Hamilton faces is to quote you to yourself if the bonds appreciated should speculators pocket the windfall or should the money go to the original holders many of the brave soldiers who had sold their depressed government paper years earlier the answer to this perplexing question Hamilton knew would define the character of American capital markets close quote why is that question perplexing in 1790 and why did it why was the precedent why did he understand even venomoth the president would prove so important but one thing that we take for granted when we buy stock or bond is that all of the profits or losses from buying that stock or bond will be our own if we ever doubt that we would never buy a stock or bond if we thought that the government could retroactively Lee expropriate part of that of that money Hamilton knew that that was an essential feature to establish for having functioning capital markets because unlike the other founders I'm Jefferson Madison were constantly talking about how we would teach the world we would be a beacon humanity Hamilton I think with great wisdom and modesty very closely studied the presidents of England France Holland countries that already had functioning capital markets even though he never set foot in Europe he made a very very close study of how their financial markets operated and realized what we do they call the portability of the security that you buy stock a bond and then it is yours lock stock and barrel he understood that from studying European experience you mentioned that the report on credit faces a second quandary whereas some of the debt was owed by the federal government some was owed by the 13 states again I quote you to yourself the percussions of the way Hamilton handled the state step we're as pervasive as anything Alexander Hamilton ever did to fortify the united states government why say this is this sounds very technical if not counterintuitive that the first Treasury secretary decides that he not only wants to pay off the federal that he wants to actually add to the dead by taking over the debt from the states why would he voluntarily do that well he was a very afraid of about the survival of the federal government and he knew that if the creditors transferred their legions from the state government to the federal government that they would have a vested interest in the survival of that government he also knew that it would forever after give the federal government tomorrow if not legal lock on the main revenues in the country it's why to this day we still pay more in federal taxes than we do in state or local taxes for better or for worse that's Hamilton spot next Hamilton's battle for the creation of a National Bank after the reissue in the report on credit he still Treasury secretary he begins to agitate for the establishment of a national or a central bank why is that politically difficult what sort of opposition does he run into well for starters Jefferson and Madison claimed that a National Bank is unconstitutional because they said that the only powers that the federal government could exercise are those that were specifically enumerated in the Constitution Hamilton develops a doctrine that essentially emancipates the Constitution he says well even though it doesn't say in the Constitution that we could have a central bank it does say that we can borrow money it does say that we can raise taxes and in fact the central bank would be a means to that and so he comes up with the so-called theory of implied powers which really frees the Constitution from the straightjacket and I want to take you to one little episode there because he uses no Madison in the House of Representatives Madison is the principal framer of the Constitution and Madison says I wrote this document I'm telling you it does not authorize the establishment of a central bank George Washington intellectually deferential of course he would want he would tend to want to defer to Madison I think that's a correct reading of Washington and now Jeffrey Hamilton comes up with something relying on the Necessary and Proper Clause we get to do not only what is enumerated as a power to the federal government but whatever is necessary and proper to fulfill those duties and Washington decides for Hamilton what is going on in Washington's mind I think what it is is that Washington and Hamilton had gone through the experience of the American Revolution and had witnessed firsthand the problem of having a weak central government the Continental Congress could not command men the Continental Congress could not command money they could only beg for money and manpower from the states and so I think what you find is that a vision is forged among the officer corps in the Continental Army that almost predicts that Washington will lean towards Hamilton and also that Madison and Jefferson who did not see combat would not see as clearly the virtues of federal power Washington spent all those years begging the Continental Congress to pay the bills it had gone through eight years of war tearing his hair out at the really BB inaptitude and really be the weakness all right can tell Congress kind of last a summing up the place of Alexander Hamilton in American history you write Alexander Hamilton was the messenger from a future that we now inhabit what do you mean by that but the America that we resembled today much more nearly resembles Hamilton's vision Jefferson's vision looks as poetic and alluring his effort just doesn't it anyway correspond to the country that we inhabit so that I think that one reason among others why Hamilton was visible in eyes was that he was an advocate of things like banks and stock exchanges corporations manufacturing at a time when that seemed like very scary futuristic stuff so he was very much ahead of his time we'd caught up with him so much in the American the landscape that we today take for granted was very new and far-sighted and hence unsettling stuff back in the late 18th century mike wallace let me push you a little bit from mike wallace quote the claim that Hamilton's financial program saved the country from becoming a backward Banana Republic is untenable the trust prosperity of the 1790s and early 1800 was the result not of Hamiltonian wizardry but if the outbreak of the Napoleonic Wars in 1793 which generated a massive European demand for neutral America's grain and of England's burgeoning industrialization which generated a massive demand for American cotton close quote in other words Alexander Hamilton was saying some of the right things and doing some of the right things but this was bound to become a great big prosperous commercial country Hamilton Arno Hamilton how do you answer that well I think it probably would happen but I think that Hamilton accelerated let me give you an example we talked about the central bank one of the reasons Hamilton wanted to have what was the forerunner of the Federal Reserve Board and we had no uniform national currency it's different states produced their own notes we had a lot of foreign coins washing around in the country this provided us with a uniform national currency it actually provided us with liquid capital for investment in the time when we were very rich in land and very rich in labour so I think Mike Walz is right that there was an overall tone there was an overall economic backdrop that was certainly stimulated but I think that because Hamilton early on established American credit we were able to borrow in fact by the time that Hamilton left office after five years we had gone from the global deadbeat and world finance to a country that got interest rates as low as that if any other sovereign borrower in the world I'm not really sure that there's a parallel to what extent was Alexander Hamilton if I may put it this way if I'm reading modern terms back into the 18th century tell me that's part of the question I suppose to what extent is Alexander Hamilton reading the ethos and skills of New York into the Virginia plantation ascendancy of the moment is a very good question I think that in Hamilton's writings you could always kind of hear the seaport and the in the background I think the fact that Hamilton loved he was in the Caribbean or whether he was in New York was always in a trading port meant that he had a real kind of love for the the bustle of Commerce had a real feel for foreign trade I think that his residence in New York is quite inseparable from his vision you call Hamilton quote the profit of the capitalist revolution in America in the long struggle between the agrarian and the commercial visions which is the animating struggle throughout his life but when Hamilton dies is he aware that he's won that his vision will indeed approved the dominant vision I think I think he hoped so on the other hand one has to say that while Todd Hamilton dies his main political rival Jefferson is in the White House and heading for a second term only to be succeeded by two terms of his next major rival James Madison and then even John Quincy Adams and Andrew Jackson don't like so I think that Hamilton certainly would have understood that his political base his party the Federalists were in decline and so I think that he experienced some gratification from the fact that Jefferson who had bitterly criticized the central bank in other parts of the Hamiltonian program once in office had in fact kept much of the Hamiltonian system so I think Hamilton realized that he'd embedded his system deeply enough into American government that he would not disputed politically but he dies a couple of years short of the Louisiana Purchase the Louisiana Purchase I'd already had two heads and he did see that you did see that a Hamilton was one of the few in his party who approved of the Louisiana Purchase because even though he and many Federalists fear that this would mean the creation of many you slave-owning states he realized that it was just too good a bargain to pass us but he had rather I think it was rather bitter satisfaction for him because Jefferson had constantly accused him of sweeping or sweeping constitutional powers and here Jefferson commits the most breathtaking act of executive discretion in American history by buying Louisiana Clare Boothe Luce famous kometa stand journalist of the middle years of the 20th century used to say that history would Accord each great figure just one sentence Washington is the father of our country Jefferson wrote the Declaration of Independence you've written a book this thick what one sentence should history give to Alexander Hamilton could be father of the federal government father of the federal government lawn chair no thank you very much thank you I'm Peter Robinson for uncommon knowledge thanks for joining us we welcome your comments on this week's show our email address comments at uncommon knowledge TV for more information about uncommon knowledge please visit our website wwlp.com [Music] [Music] funding for this program was provided by the John M Olin foundation [Music]

Channel: Hoover Institution

Views: 44,338

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Keywords: Alexander, Hamilton, secretary, of, the, treasury, Aaron, Burr, mercantile, banking, thomas, jefferson

Id: mAoqMjUlinY

Length: 26min 48sec (1608 seconds)

Published: Tue Sep 16 2008