Alexander Fridman: My Dad, the Plasma Physicist | Lex Fridman Podcast #100

the following is a conversation with Alexander Friedmann he's a professor at Drexel University and the director of the nihai and plasma Institute he's one of the top plasma physicists and plasma chemists in the world and most importantly to me he's my dad plasma by the way is not referring to blood plasma in biology but to the fourth state of matter in physics solid liquid gas and plasma which is a gas of charged particles that behaves in fascinating ways plasma makes up the Sun the Stars lightning plasma displays fluorescent lamps and is the most common state of matter in the universe this is the 100th episode of this podcast there were quite a few very big conversations which were all options but I decided to go back to where it all started for me and to do a personal conversation with my dad this was a difficult conversation for me for many reasons but life is short perhaps we needed microphones to give us a chance to say the things we never would have said otherwise this is that conversation this is also a chance to briefly look back if you don't know I stepped down from my full-time position at MIT to pursue a dream of building a start-up around AI systems that form meaningful connections with human beings I didn't have much money the videos I've made and this podcast was a way to try to pay for food and rent while taking on the startup journey it also gave me a chance to have conversations with people who inspire me who make me think and to share it with an amazing community frankly I don't know what to do with the idea that this thing has been listened to thirty five million times I'm pretty sure most of those are AI BOTS but if you're one of the rare biological systems listening to this thank you I feel the love it gives me a lot of strength in both this and the startup by the way some people asked my full very Russian birth name is Alexei Alexei or Alyosha or as my mom might say Yoshioka but I've always enjoyed all my friends and people close to me we'll call me Lex or Lex in English a few folks and companies donated money and sponsored this podcast and they're the reasons I'm here the best way you can support me in this journey is to support the sponsors please do I only do ads here in the intro and not in the middle for me as a fan mid-roll ads get in the way of the conversation maybe I'm wrong about that wouldn't be the first time please click I'm a sponsor links in the description sign up download buy whatever they're selling that really is the best way to support the journey I'm on quick summary of the ads the Jordan Harbinger show and magic spoon low-carb keto friendly cereal go check out Jordans show an apple podcast Spotify you know where to look tell him I sent you give him all the love in the world and buy all of the magic spoon cereal click the magic splint com / Lex link in the description and use code elects a checkout the more you buy for this episode the more they will support this podcast in the future you know what to 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sent you the more you buy for this episode the more they will support this podcast in the future so buy all of their cereal it's delicious and good for you you won't regret it and now here's my conversation with my dad Alexander Friedmann what to you is the most beautiful idea in physics chemistry or mathematics whoo let's go to that place first before we go to the to Kiev of the most beautiful in physics chemistry I would say I would say Einstein his ideas regarding stochastic motion and Brownian motion I think it is the most beautiful clear simple idea because from these like statistics you can prove existence of molecules believe me or not it was I think it was his first publication in 1905 with his first wife it was significantly her idea that's right there were collaborators yes those five four four five papers he published yeah I actually almost everything which Einstein did it was published the most important stuff they were published in one here one nine on five but the first idea was probably the most elegant cases charge Brownian motion and why you think it's beautiful if you see that people at that time they understand that if molecules if they exist their motion is absolutely chaotic boom-boom boom-boom-boom what he proved the dust matter what size of particles is there motionless similar about the same so it is not necessary to see molecules you can look at bigger particles like if you smoke there is particles and you can see like a propagation of this smoke and from here determine behavior of molecules and that's actually relatively short very elegant very clear and at that point people they kept talking about molecules but it was no proof because there is no like a super electronic microscope to see them so you know I'm saying yes molecules they exist you said well I mean can you show me there so my Stein made it and booked and he proved that a lot of people after these public hearings that hmm probably molecules really exists Einstein in 1905 so what do you like about that idea the isn't olicity simplicity that's what it is we proving something very very very very very very complicated so if I ask you for example you know molecules like this can you prove it obviously like now you would say ok I have a special electronic microscope and I can we'll take a look that small ok but when you go back to beginning of 20th century people they were laughing can you prove sons you know you can no no no no take a look it's something very simple very very simple very very simple what do you think it takes to do that kind of thinking and come to those ideas and how many times have you encountered those kinds of ideas in your life have you had any yeah yeah I would say that's that's the whole beauty my feeling that's the whole beauty of science it's just you know people they say no no no no it's so - it's impossible or and you say no no wait take a look take a look wait a second did they take a look just think for five minutes if something is very complicated you know kapitza Nobel Prize all right like I work with him by the way he used to say if it is complicated it's probably wrong ah well it was a lot of discussion didn't kapitza inland ow because Landau he he enjoyed to do something in a most complicated way why his friend Kapisa he was trying to do everything is an absolutely simple way and they had all these discussions because sometimes capital he went to extremes and he used to say well this is simple it means this is right now he was like okay you means that everything we simple is right i mean like Fineman - yeah you like the simple yes yes yes yes that's the whole point to find this simplicity that's that's the beauty of science that's a beauty really there's a beautiful that's something worse to do like at the risk of going religious for a second why do you think our universe allows for such simplicity to be discovered that such simplicity exists at all I can I can tell you it is very similar to Darwin's theory why I don't know why animals they're this way not the other way so it is actually competition take a look about simplicity in beauty of physics like you have two interacting planets and the force is proportional to one over R squared in this case they are able to go in circles or ellipses if there is another law they are either falling or we're out so like so if like our solar system exists so just the interactions would be at 1 over R squared that's it it's very interesting about Isaac Newton and his way of thinking that's also was the super I would say genius is it weird to you talking about noon that action a distance for example this stuff I was doing in elementary school which is funny which without any knowledge of physics but I I was doing physics because of fighting throwing things how better than that better than that we played well it was 3rd 2nd 3rd gray so it's in 1962 1963 so from one hand you know key if that time so people they were excited about worse obviously always especially boys and also you know we were way better than Americans because you know we have first picnic yeah and Gagarin I remember how happy we were when was good Irene a year yo I'm afraid to make a mistake but I think it's 1961 or 1962 in 1961 1962 because what I remember that I was in there either in first grade or a second grade and it was no bread delivery or not at that time was a big problem because of Khrushchev and the carriage of shortage of bread shortage of all kinds of food no potatoes no it was a mistake actually of crucial because when he came to America he saw that corners everywhere and he decided yeah that if he put enough corn in Russia Russia will be way stronger from the point of Agriculture than America and but he overdid it as a result it was a shortage of wheat hmm so that's why I remember this moment so just for kids lastly you remember so yes so for kids what it is no no no no each day yeah during the class you know the special guy used to come and give a small piece of white bread to each kid white bread yeah white bread and at the same time hmm like a teacher and I always forgot about this Gagarin went to the space and kids they even forgot about this the bread so that's how big of a moment it is then you're near I got bad take a look if you are a boy you think about leasing out space so like a 1/2 of voice they want to be astronauts cosmonauts who we used to say and the other half wanted to design rockets so I was from this second part so myself with friends we start designing small rockets to fight second grade second grade a second third second third grade and we have been fighting with these guys from a next-door house because these idiots they used to use only stones against us well and it was a big fence between houses so jazz they throw stones and we decided to make rockets well and we made it and a scientist was born engineer - yes it was both science and engineering well let me ask was at that moment or in general when did you first fall in love with science I would say science I think clearly this fight with these beds the rawest there are the kids with which keep throwing stones from another side of the fence and we start making rockets what has he been a rocket as a fuel we use a mixture of photographic films with special chemicals yeah we consulted with the boys from high school about some details and we'd made it more or less and then it was that stuff was actually wrapped into the silver foil and in the end we put like a match so with another match we light it and this stuff was going like sometimes ten meters yeah and it was able to go to like 2 meters high but very often it was mistakes because like we were bad with stability so what I try to calculate at this moment is elect a trajectory hmm stability meaning while it's in the air yeah control problem yes yes control Sheikh so I try to try to calculate what motion to describe the moment where to point it so where to point it to be sure that it will go far enough and it will go above the defense which was maybe one meter eighty or something like that so so what was most interesting to you the calculations of the math physics of calculating the trajectory or the fact that you could engineer build something that's based on science in in the beginning in the beginning in the beginning to be honest I was happy to fight these idiots and I have title defense yeah which what's funny that we used to do that and and they kept throwing stones which actually you cannot prove anything but then in the end of this period actually I fall in love please science what is science to you so there in the inner period your eight-year-old here one of teen events so not just to throw a stone but just to make something and just and take a look we made it so the the the creation yeah and also another important stuff when you are doing this kind of stuff so your friends they start thinking that you are not so bad you know also it's a way to earn respect credit on their on the playground yeah yeah we were not interested in girls you know when you are like a second third grade we just do we hated girls yeah but it was very important to have respect from yeah from well always follow along right yeah yeah yeah yeah it's a camaraderie and just feeling and secret from parents and just to linger in it because you brought it up Gagarin yeah what are your thoughts you know it's inspired on the American side the Apollo missions inspired an entire generation of scientists what was your thought about Gagarin and the space race and how that made you feel what were role did it play in your life to be honest the whole country had a huge respect to Gagarin he was a nice person very simple and he was hero because you know to be first to go to the space yeah knowing the percentage of success at the time with dogs was way far from 100% it's a big deal I would not say that it inspired like a science science no it did not but making rockets it was just interesting and about America we are way better than America that's the way we have been thinking I mean come on is that yeah that's it was even not a question yeah in America was saying the same it's propaganda I was its propaganda but keep in mind very very important actually at that time in these years Russia was way ahead yeah there is it was no NASA that's right that's so the fact that Russia is way ahead is what motivated America to really step it up it's from one hint but from another hand for Russian kids of a second grader and third grade mmm-hmm come on we did not think about America that's like you know yeah that's millions miles away yeah besides physics you also have poetry in your blood so what has been your relationship to poetry music what role did you play in your life poetry a lot but it is way later then then Elementary School actually like music wise you know like Oh teenagers they're in love with music and it's just exactly the same now and twenty years ago and thirty years ago I would say at that time at that time we were all in love with one special group which is Beatles and II and what was extremely positive later its I was in sixth grade fifth grade of the 60 64 65 66 and in Soviet Union Beatles they were forbidden deliver not it was absolutely strange but at the same time if something is forbidden that's exactly what you love most so I remember that for my big successes in science I was awarded who is going to this best of the best camps pioneer camps Arctic in Crimea and over there it was international so I met with I live together with group of people from friends yeah because I was the only one kind of speaking fluently in French and we just made trade so we gave whatever we used to have and we got Beatles records little records and we go yes that's the rebellion you're part of it what about poetry what when did you first I mean you've written a lot of what poet what maybe do you remember an early poem you've written a bad one no I started doing that late so it was I was in seventh grade I think that's late Oh writing poetry I thought and writing poetry is a little bit related to when boys they start looking at girls it was a little bit different eyes we just loved it somehow behind even not so much even laughs even just you know this imagination right like way far from reality it's a it is romanticism were you a serious poet or or funny poem because you have a lot of humor example it's later yeah but at that time as was extremely serious Mir extremely romantic which never ever before after that is hardly management yeah but it is kind of a little bit like a childish romanticism or childish I mean you know that bad but it was it's interesting enough that first poetry was actually almost immediately from my purview very good it not like you know you're doing something not good and then better and and better and then better mmm it's actually totally opposite best stuff which I wrote it was like a south great well around more like eight and nice great and I wrote a lot at that time why do you think you were so what does it mean what good is good poetry mean that means it's not cheesy it's beautifully worded and he crafted it yes and so ha where did that come from was most people even great poets are terrible at first so why why were you so clever quickly as most people know you as really fine clever no I mean would words write very young words so you're saying that was early on you already had that yes I have no good answer it comes from nowhere yeah from but Michael Rockets just don't know it woody poet wasn't recognized it was it was actually to be honest no not so much connection but in Russian culture romanticism it is extremely important element you know starting from 19th century Romanticism so yes it was very popular so either you are writing good poetry or bad poetry or you are an artist you are like a you know painting something so I have a lot of friends they do painting do you remember poetry do you remember a poem from that time you've written by any chance yeah sure I remember most of them by heart you mind you mind reciting their in Russian Russian is good as long as they're not in French I have in French oh you wanna me just do what do you think what what's comfortable you know maybe I will read one poor one point which I like most from that period and I'm not sure that I wrote something better after that well it's a little bit cheesy however but not much yeah it's like it's even not about girls it's about music hmm but still remain a romanticized kind of wisdoms very strong medicine act was the result of me reading a book particular janeyah catimor historia de chine another kappelmeister organic wrestler actually the story of a cat who found the book or like a notebook but the notebook of people he starts reading about that and analyzing their life so the life of people through eyes of a very very smart cat so then I can read it in Russian right and in the spoiler if you want please I'll be doing ok IRA's vanities would open on Krishna hip a socially to Roseville s Kapellmeister your gum Chrysler booted placket see when you love us the billion so he Buddhist needs a voyage Kafka Livadia and a woman noticed me so detail I mean like the one who died in the mirror of cellist a perky notice Beach Smoke shown Kino numerous she regrets what Tolkien is smoke his rival's castaway piles even Rock a Christian ray I'll eat alone a zookeeper a religion newest rupee Charla's economy lips creepy a leash Malibu zoo mashhad or Goose Creek Astley our yearly calico Nadine Don Dona Torino Shira yalla Paris Smith not mere insignia burry it acoustikats layaway piles police garage new lazuli raspberry this would open on Christmas Eve associated Roswell s kapellmeister again crazier PD plackets Union Lois Wow that's good and it's like I would say that whatever I did later it was however you do here so someone's great so this eight eight great it's very 15 that is that's very good yeah and it's a that's a romanticism you know I was a little bit of like it too much it's musically cheesiness a little bit I would say but very strong so let's go let's go okay to Kiev okay let's go to Kiev you were born and raised in Kiev just like yes the guys with the rocks and the Rockets but that was the guys you know I get word he got that you can hold a grudge what are some memories of your dad and mom that stand out and hmm okay yeah what we do well let's drink in Japanese so yeah what are we drinking Japanese whiskey in Japanese whiskey they call it from the barrel or not sponsored by NECA whiskey but in the whiskey yeah we do not but they're doing a very very good job yeah and they are in Sapporo it's Hokkaido north of Japan so they are doing good beer which is superb they good very good whiskey and a lot of red caviar and make sure that's it did you ever think when you were that shortage of bread and you're doing the rocket that you'll be sitting here in America few years later drinking Japanese whiskey talking about caviar did you even know what caviar was oh no no obviously because scaler it was for holidays a little bit and it was distributed it's not like you're going buy it but you got it a little bit like a small can so we all of us we knew that and just it was very popular and well let me just actually ask that question how did you imagine what where you would be 50 years from then I think how did you think about your future actually like in about eight grades nine grades I was very very very very very very good in physics mathematics and chemistry so I was actually in this system of like an Olympiad so-called competition I was absolutely number one in Ukraine twice and absolute number two in Soviet Union also twice this is physics competition or mathematics okay it was physics so therefore people who don't know maybe you can explain I mean this is still goes on to this day these are very intense competitions I don't know if they're that popular in the United States probably because the United States folks don't do is great but I there it is extremely popular but not in physics what is going on in this country I was very much impressed it's a very serious and very tough competition in mathematics in math that's right in physics class and biology last so you already know new somewhat in eighth grade that you're very good and yes wait a minute you said chemistry - yes of chemistry - physics chemistry and competed you won in Ukraine and I was number two in Soviet Union it was twice now very interesting that in Soviet unit was a rule you supposed to choose so you can participate in this competition in physics mathematics and chemistry and all three of them up to the level of championship of the region of the big city in my cases was Kiev but then to go to competition in Ukraine you have to choose you can go to only to one so I want physics and chemistry and mathematics in Kiev then I choose physics and I was going to Ukrainian now if you win in Ukraine so a couple of people from the whole Ukraine goes to this championship of Soviet Union that's an incredible accomplishment whether using it was I mean you basically you peaked in terms of physics and poetry at age 14 that's a big difference you know in physics I was really on top of the Soviet Union which is a huge country in poetry it was just but no I'm not a professional you know and you can't compete in poetry way yeah well by the way over there gold medal from high school so what you call here a valedictorian which is hard to do I would say here it's also very the announcing independent school but in Kiev it was an interesting situation because oh you have to the most difficult was actually not physics mathematics and it was writing but because it was writing not on the computer without spellcheck it just and you have to write hard to when you let me see let me hear no 12 12 pages as minimum of an essay and it's supposed to be zero mistakes and the Russian language is not the easiest one and when you say mistakes I mean this is what makes the grammar real wrong mistake it's not just its grammar it's writing mistakes - oh no I wouldn't mean writing mistake I just incorrect use of word or something can you cross stuff out no right this is the you can't make a mistake in the actual writing process you're writing with a pen yeah and immersive you're not supposed to make any direction and you're not allowed to cross the lines and that's its perfection in song and all the victory is for me and it's silly but me what do you think about that is it what what do you think about that strictness because it it it's easy to criticize from a distance but there's something powerful about it yes there is it you know what counter is more powerful from this point of view is Japan is pest retinas I was so much impressed with their kids what they keep saying that in Japan for kids it does matter it's a holiday or the weekend or whatever each day you supposed to train with these Japanese characters because it's not it's just impossible just to remember it so they are there working too hard but as a result they can say for them koala t because quality means no mistakes alright that's very interesting point what does mean quality it means no miss isn't perfectionism perfectionism creates this kind of whiskey yeah which this is what perfect tastes like it's interesting I mean it forces you to take this education seriously everything seriously like this yeah this craftsmanship it did cross me seriously yes yes yes and you know I I mentioned to you this exam this exam in in Russian I say but it was something which was worse than that yeah because because it was Kiev we supposed to take two essays one in Russian language and also in Ukrainian language so think for a second it's a it's not your native language and he's supposed to also write this at least 12 pages without with zero mistakes and without any possibility to make any it should be perfect as a result was funny that I speak Ukrainian not bad at all because of this I wouldn't say that's a good idea but it's it's kind of Russian Russian version of of a Japanese story but yeah you know there's a lot of interesting other strict things I get to memorize poetry here to memorize things which I mean that's a really interesting exercise oh that's what probably you remember yeah though it still was there when I was there yeah yeah like I used to know at least thousand poems by heart by heart and you still remember many of your own by heart yeah it's by the way helps this mathematics how good memory just memory okay so you said you already knew I mean it's an incredible incredible accomplishment to be at that level in physics at that young age so what did you think about the future returning to the original question where do you think that would take you this fascination and this skill with physics did you imagine hiding a professor did you imagine being Hine Stein you know kids in high school I mean at least between us and I was like already in in high school it was like special high school in physics and mathematics we were all like not only dreaming but being sure we can do that we can be best of the best in the world and and it was very popular subject at that time if you are like the best thing in physics it's the way more you are way more popular than a guy who is the best in basketball yes interesting I mean that's why do you think that isn't a Soviet Union that it was so respected it's so admired when you were great at science it was propaganda so was the state created there yes so and it was good do you think we'll ever see that in America without authoritarian in a democracy because in America Brad Pitt and Michael Jordan are the superstars and scientists most people don't know a single scientist except Einstein in America well I would say my feeling it should happen in America it should happen to two boys and girls in America it should be sure it meaning like that's a good thing or is everything anyway it is very important because if if kids in America they are just not so much good in sciences sooner or later we will lose competition to to countries where science is very much high prestige example today unfortunately not Russian the best example today is probably chain I I've been there I saw their high schools we have to be very careful with that so my feeling that that it should be done because in America university education is way stronger than in Russia and they're way stronger than in Europe but high school education in America is not so so strong well yeah it's difficult to understand why but why what do you think the universities are so strong in America why do you think the most Nobel prizes are from America why do you think science is so good even though scientists were never really worshipped in America because in Russia it was always a problem so the strongest you know that people students kids they they're they are very hard workers when they are in high school because after that there is a very strong competition to get to a good university very very very challenging the same in China so you have to be very good to enter very good University so kids they work like crazy to do that also boys they knew that they have take a look you have one chance in most of cases with exception of couple of universities have only one chance to go to one University to try yourself if you make it you become a student if not you go to the army for three years so you it's very interesting it's a very psychologically interesting situation because what is going on you have to make a decision by yourself are you strong enough to go to the best place because it's only one place you can go now they start changing this system but in 1960 seventies eighties nineties it was the case so just another cost because the feeling once you're choosing you don't get in course not money-wise but real cost if you are a boy if you if you just overestimate yourself mm-hmm is that when you got that line in your hair that that period so for people who don't know my dad's hair now is white but he used to have the sexy stripe down the middle for many decades yeah yeah yeah 10 20 30 a lot of my pictures I have this right now anymore nothing he wants a good look now so anyway is that when you got a distress that's when you were oh no the stress was it was a real stress what happened well that's that's a bad story I told you that in when I was a finishing high school as it turns great the time I became a champion of Ukraine number one and second in Soviet Union which was a very very big deal after that five kids on six no five five kids from Soviet Union was supposed to go to international competition and this international competition was the same dates as you know exams to enter the university so if you are a champ if you are like in five best five best kids in physics five best kids in mathematics five best kissin whatever chemistry they were able to skip these final exams which means to skip this essay in language one languages say another language and you skip all exams but instead of that you prepare to international competition so because I was number two I was clearly the team so I was not supposed to go to this stupid exams and but well but it was a telephone call of our leader from Moscow he said that like it's like one week before but unfortunately you have to be replaced with another guy because they are unable to give you a visa oh and that was actually yeah that was a stress it was it was a very big stress and at that point like people including those from America and scientists motion they came to me and they asked me you know to make speech and just to say something and to do something and they talked to my dad to your grandfather hi he spoke with people from KGB because he was like the guy had time and and he came to me and said okay you do whatever you want because it's your life you make a decision but they told me that if you forgot about what happened you have gold medal which is over there you pass all exams and you will have a well five in Russian a highest grade whatever you do it will be a yeah and then you go to any university you want and you'll be accepted this is KGB talking those kinds of folks yeah and I hesitate it and I said well yeah I agree I am I I will not fight against the system so can you explain a little bit does you being Jewish have anything to do with it absolutely it's 100% okay so because it was actually it was a 1970 and in this moment it was very significant actually push the immigration for Jewish people to Israel and to America and they they were afraid always and they just give all these awards to the to the guy and he will say okay guys goodbye I just decided to go to whatever to America or to Germany or whatever or to Israel keeping that in mind just in case they prefer not to give Iza and at that time interesting enough is KGB so they do not give visa and they do not give any explanation why right just you cannot do that however however they say he's a good guy and if he accepts that will do everything for him don't worry it's also risk because you never know they can but I don't know maybe maybe I am so smart but actually without special preparation I went to these super exams and I got a you did well how did well so and that's the reason of this stripe which appeared in very short bundes it was a source of stress but I'm not exactly understanding the depth of the stress it was very cg / - ways to make I mean it doesn't feel like there's a choice he just had actually when already I made a decision I was already with the store okay so the decision process was because I was it's like you know I was falling from a limp or whatever like because I I was feeling that everything is like I'm best of the best in the world whatever and boots they actually put me on my place you know it was difficult moment but but then I was accepted and it wasn't you know immediately celebration because you know I got this gold medal which is a big deal in Soviet Union the gold represents being a valedictorian well it's very right so did you experience anti-semitism leading up to that moment in your life did you feel that you were what you mean to feel that you were Jewish did you experience life as a as a Ukrainian Jew or simply as a Ukrainian well for the listener that is uncomfortable talk likes to avoid uncomfortable conversations so I have to force them into uncomfortable conversations okay oh well it's not only me just like all our generation in at that time in Ukraine in Ukraine Ukraine at that time it was not the same as Ukraine today so level of anti-semitism was way higher in Ukraine than in other places in other soviet republics all right why is that is there any historical yes reason phalanges well it was actually historical significantly historical reason starting from bogdan Olinsky so at some point a couple of hundred years before that Jews they supported polish people and it was against Russia against the grain so just a level of anti-semitism was very high in this kind of countries also this area was inside of Pale of Settlement which was a lot of Jews a lot of Jews a lot of problem with Jews in Moscow it was forbidden for Jews to leave so no no Jews no problems so when I actually moved from Kiev to Moscow it is like a day and night so Moscow it was beautiful I mean I did not feel well I feel felt but not my charity in Ukraine always I felt that I am Jewish but from another hand you remember all these kids from our yard like a stone that's that they're opposed both groups a were Jewish yeah so what I'm trying to say that Jews they lived actually together so from that point of view you know it's less it's a huge anti-semitism but but they are somewhere you're somewhat isolated from it because because it's like a Jewish gigantic together I mean they juice it was its historical ghetto yeah okay let's let's jump back okay we were saying that you were born and raised in Kiev what what are your favorite or maybe most representative memories of your dad and mom from the earlier years well it was a beautiful family you're the only chance you're just i was only charged one yes and my father he was a hero of World War two and he was actually always with a stick because you know he was like a cane yeah cane right he was heavily wounded even in the war and he operated the the gun the machine gun he's a goner very complicated situations huh so he was risking his life enormous Lee and the only reason he survived because he was heavily wounded so just it was the end of the war for him and you know and as a boy you know for me he was eerie and he was a real hero he was like you know it's not it's very different for me he's like a big hand you know like always he was not drinking Japanese whiskey he was drinking only one thing what yeah he remember like we had somewhere this yeah we'll get to the bar yeah but what I'm trying to say that it's a different personality and he just from this Jewish boy he became an associate minister of construction of Ukraine which was a very big deal so he was like this he's very much different from me I'm like a little bit like a software personality my like my mother but he was a very tough guy yeah were you afraid of him hmm what does mean to be afraid he loved me but he was a person like you know very strong personality so yes well if I did something wrong how you remember the story no no I mean these idiots from another from the yeah in this rockets so yes I was afraid of my father so I had huge respect and my mother she was like a nice Jewish mother and it well let me kind of ask a hard question to you've lost your dad a few years ago yeah what did it feel like when you learned that he died what went through your head what memories well like you know losing your parents it's excluding your parents so I would say what I can say it's a losing paradin and my father it was a whole generation you know it's just like and you know the feeling you have that now you are the man that's interesting whether the killing is now it's my trying to be great now just I have to do something now just because when you have your parents you always have this feeling that there is something behind you just in case yeah and my father he was very very very strong personality just this interesting story that during this mmm Jews persecution in 1952 by Stalin when it was so-called a fair of doctors or whatever how to say in English deliberately when Jewish people were actually said just their doctors and okay most of nocturnal were Jewish Wesley so they used to say that they actually kill half of the government or whatever as a doctors it was absolutely lie it just says nothing with reality and Jews they were prepared actually to be moved from all over so it Union to be a began to like a close to Chinese border on a more River like oh it's already they try to move them closer to Japan to Japan is whiskey so like in camps know what just just just just kind of move them straight to to the so called the Jewish published Jewish region or whatever but it's like it was nothing there yeah and if you move like this kind of group of people I was about three million Jews not forget you know at least half will die just during this moving so it was nice and you're preventing them from having a future yeah so at that time you know people they kept start kept talking about the same stupid stuff that Jews a drink blood of babies of Christian babies yeah and and that's what my father used to say that his friends and it's like you know it's like a meeting and you know people are asking have you seen something have you seen him like a drinking blood or something like that and he said that he was absolutely in products to his friends and all of them they mostly I mean they are or either leaving the room just not to participate in this stupidity war they say we haven't seen but who knows if people they write in newspapers is a very strong propaganda so they he lost he was a associate director of this manufacturing plant and they say that he's supposed to leave because because this whole propaganda he's a Jew and choose a drink in the blood of Christian baby maybe maybe who knows yes maybe it's enough there's no evidence that they're not yes right so so he is not going to prison but he is not going to work in our enterprise so he said okay I am like a social director and I want to be a worker a simplest worker but because I love my plants he said no so actually he left it was what was that memory standout for you why because it was it was 1952 and I was born in 1953 so just so what was happening that he was without job for one year because nobody wanted to to take him before Stalin died in 1953 it was home and when I was born so my mother she worked to support the whole family and we lived in a small room 14 square meters it was my grandmother grandfather father mother and me so the I mean the it's kind of it was a big impact on and then Stalin died and everything become way better is and in terms of anti-semitism as well you see there is a good movie by the way made here in America a Russian Jews part 1 and Jews / - lysandros part 3 I think it's a Youtube version yeah so what is that it was almost no anti-semitism before World War 2 right it was very strong anti-semitism after the end of the World War 2 and in 1945 and death of Stalin in 1953 in 1953 serration become better but not as good way not as good as in the nineteen thirties why was there anti-semitism after the war the Second World War it seems the idea hearted Russia sorry to interrupt how did Russians in your memory think about the the the cruelty of the Holocaust because there's so much pride about Russia winning the war of being the you know to getting to Berlin isn't how do you think about the people that were tortured well well I read it very strong very strong propaganda propaganda very strong propaganda so what happened that okay what actually happened that in the end of okay before World War two yeah before world war ii actually jewish people they just they forgot that they're Jews it was mmm I mean they were all Soviet like a little bit first Soviet first on way way first I mean it was before work in the end of the war Jewish people they create a lot of special organizations and because of Holocaust they had significant support of United States of America and Western countries but most United States of America and Jewish people in the end of over tool they start thinking that it's like my story with this when I graduated from high school so they started believing that they are big guys you know because I have so much support from the United States and it's also and and on top of that like a cherry it was a creation of Israel and right I was around and so and I did 49 there's a kind of a push that Jews are no longer Soviets they their homeland is yes and and Jews a felt like a initially very nice but they overdid it so bottom line it was a and also don't not to forget about Hitler so as a result level of anti-semitism in from 1945 to 1953 was growing significantly then it was a little bit better but actually significant improvement starts happening only in 1960s not earlier than that so can you talk a little bit more about your dad's journey in World War 2 I mean there's I remember a bunch of stories but you know just for people interested you know is World War two is at the core of our family in a sense so can you just linger and maybe if you have memories about it his impact how did he get injured was his relationships with you know violence with death was bullets flying everywhere yeah my father he was born in 1923 so in night and we're in Minsk in Minsk which is now with Russia and he was born in October so when world war started he was 17 and it was forbidden to go to army if you are younger than 18 so together with his friends they may change in a spurt they just change their year from they made themselves one year older just to be accepted to the army and interesting enough that like the way I understand at least these people who organized like a army they understand they saw that this boys are younger but they let go he wanted to go what he wanted to go you know there's so many stories and you know more in America where there's there's a lot of people brave people who found ways to not go yeah here it's absolutely opposite it's absolutely opposite because most well not not everybody over this one but majority propaganda was extremely strong so protecting your father and mother one its he was to die for your country yes yes yes so to die for your country it was kind of like an honor yeah that's and also they were sure that's Red Army his hungry trans stronger than this Germans yeah so and they thought that okay we'll go there so couple of months and we are winners but in one way or another but they were wanted to go especially when you know you're not like a very rich guy you know so he went to the army and it was like a couple of months special preparation to become like a lowest level of officers so junior latent or whatever it is in this country and he became like this low-level officer and he starts actually I near Moscow and just start going back and back and back and back and and that's it and he was with this machine gun big one and you know the change of like it was very fast so people they were killed very very very fast actually people that were operating machine guns yeah ah very very fast because just finish the changeover change so he became division commander reasonably fast decision region that's one way to move up on everybody's dying yeah yeah yeah yeah and what he kept saying I think even to you because he just it was like he kept saying that for some reason he was absolutely sure that every year he saw that like everybody else had killed and he's not so he was kind of sure that something is protecting him he's invincible and yes he's invincible he he and I wasn't writing and he was very strong actually very very very strong like by the way physically and mentally physically and mentally so kind of like helix I mean he is like because this dude would not like myself but he is very physically strong and mentally protected like I don't know what best way to say that he's he was sure in himself and he was sure that there's a confidence is that yeah yeah yeah no no no it's not it's a confidence it's a constant a little bit like a kind of like a religious but here he he did not believe to the gap through the first place come but he believed in what he was to say in his star services there is a star which protects him and I be right and he might be right he survived war he got he survived war because after like for no like five or six months he was heavily wounded which was very good yeah actually because that's right he's right in the leg in the leg yeah so he was like and he had a lot of this horse do you remember what about the people in general you know 20 million plus Soviet people died what impact do you remember what impact the war had on the people is enormous enormous that's why for 20 million it is a lot and it's a need I half of them were just civilians because Stalin he just operated this war without counting people yeah but do you think it had powerful creative impact in terms of music art literature the science a sad thing about war all all of the above science mostly all of the above it because even before war science was very much pushed up but after the war scientists they were considered like the key people in the world especially military scientist I don't think I've ever asked you this I haven't asked you most of the things I'm asking but you're Jewish Hitler killed a lot of Jews how did you feel about the Holocaust I don't think we've actually really talked about is it just an intellectual tragedy to you or did it ever feel I know I but what do you think about human nature after that who is he that I have parents and my parents they have parents which my grandparents and they're my great-grandparents so all of those all of those without exception were killed in Holocaust zero died with their own death natural death all of them they were killed because they were like already a little bit older like I am now and they were sure that Germans they will not touch them come on just do something to old people itself strange and all of them without exception all of know they were killed so it is you know like initially in my life I just it was like a really hatred with respect to Germans in general which only later I mean it was clear that it's not it's not say it's not German in Germany but that's but it was very serious feelings about that so hatred but so as you as you grew grew up did it are you hopeful about whether people are good or evil and did that have a impact on you know the fact that you can see so much evil you can become cynical the way you still did you is there still an optimistic positive person inside you yeah there is I am optimistic myself I am optimistic so just like the point is that like I was when I just start growing up even even in high school level of anti-semitism was like a way lower and in general I felt myself always way more Soviet then I was a Russian Ukrainian or Jewish sure so what what was your relationship of the Soviet Union we'll talk about coming to America but what was your feeling so you're proud for it for many years I was very proud I was very proud of this style of life where science is really popular where people they're working not for money but people are working for form to make something interesting to make something good it's the place where if you if you if you're good you are rewarded and that was a healing it was propaganda obviously so for like when I was in high school middle school high school and I would say in school I was feeling that I'm extremely proud so again then it was this shock change and then a lot of friends I started going to Israel or America so just everything start changing every since I've chased after Stalin after though it's you know it's wait so it's already I'm talking about like 1970s in the 70s yeah the 1970s already like people they against our feeling that they're Jewish because of significant immigration to America and Israel okay say you were in Kiev through high school mmm-hmm so let's look to your next chapter of your life and can you tell me what is fist yeah since as its I don't even know what the full in English name is Moscow Institute of Physics and technology and what is it in Russian the full name Moskovsky facility hsk Institute em fat I um it's it smells like MIT police yeah yeah yeah my PT yes yeah yeah it is am i P TSD kind of it's a kind of a mighty I don't know it's maybe a little more like a Caltech oh no I was there an engineering component it's very small right I mean what was it was the size of a cultic and it was very much focused on science and military science and now sorry to interrupt no this was in Moscow yeah and so you came from Kiev the Moscow Moscow so how did you get into DC so what yeah so you said this yeah cause this stuff is focused on science military science this is like the I saw on the internet this description of maybe you can talk to it math and physics education at MIT the number of hours I think or compared to fist yeah and they were I mean they were making first of all the CCF education is shorter and covers a like an order of magnitude more material yes exactly what can you explain what what that experience is like what the with their idea of the kind of holiday they're putting you through is what the philosophy but that is what I've been looking for because you know don't forget that well you're coming to the place and you feel yourself best in the world and when you meet people from you know outside you're like a you're like a different personality you are from mipt you are from from Castilla so it was a lot of songs a lot of it was a theory and we were so much proud that number of credit hours it was incredibly we work from 9:00 to 5:00 each day you can from 9:00 to 5:00 it is eight hours so it's eight hours of classes how many days a week six days a week so you can count and it's and the level was and your requirements they're very very very very strong and it is math physics chemistry what was the range of subjects important twice importantly like anyway when you enter like a you start with very high level mathematics physics and chemistry actually and why did you want to call this yeah so it's basically because you thought you were one of the best people in the world at math and physics yeah so this is the place to go and chemistry yes in chemistry and that's that's that's the way to go by the way when I came to Moscow I hesitated for about one day because I also I was in love with mathematics and mathematics meant like a freedom so they had less classes they were more open for like creative thinking well this jacket was like a what's the best word to say what they do like in sports like um make like something extremely hard for you later what's the name how you say for military for military from either and USA boot camp yeah when I said boot camp but yeah this is really intense so innocence of weeding out week yes and that was going on actually so the significant number of students they were actually living after the first semester yeah it was extremely challenging also keep in mind that it was about okay usually group it was like a twenty five people thirty and usually one girl so it is like a whatever they three percent girls ninety seven boys it's also create very special atmosphere well it's maybe just two before before we get into the special atmosphere what was your journey to fish yeah like so I think I read a book a love and math by ad Frankel also Russian I think he mentions he stuck in there and he's also Jewish and he said that there's a lot of anti-semitism that that there's a bunch of schools that you weren't I mean it was either explicitly or implicitly no Jews allowed yeah well so did you so what was the process of getting into this place and how much anti-semitism was there one in that picture at that period it was 1970 it was a clear well it's anti-semitism yes absolutely what but what I mean that it was like a for Jews it was really difficult to get into the universities very simple but in most of universities the rule was kind of hidden so just it was like a Jewish boy and not Jewish boy and they were going to the same exam and the professor gives like a G or C for the Jewish guy and like B or a for for a not Jewish guy if their level is the same it was just in most of places but Moscow means the physics and technology it was very different exams they were absolutely honest however however they count grades it was two exams in physics and two exams in mathematics oral mathematics great mathematics or physics written discs a b c g and a is 5 B is 4G 3G is 2 and if you're Jewish an exam they were very very very very very very tough yeah the world I hear all of them and that was written and oral they were extremely challenged but equally for doesn't matter you are Jewish or not Jewish where iam now if you are Jewish you have to have to to go through that after have either 19 or 20 which means yeah which means it should be a a a a or one day well if you are not Jewish 17 is absolutely ok 16 some people 15 some people so it was made clear and this beside that is completely fair it was you know it was from some point of view it was good because it is not like a cheating it was like a clear rule let's do it all so it was very interesting that after exams it was a special interview and was interviewers with really high level scientists it was like it two or three famous famous famous scientists and one or two KGB people and and they just you know managed this operation it is impossible to discuss so they say yes you are accepted great Cory they say no you're not why that's our decision so what was your favorite subject topic ideas that you fell in love with in in the first few years of this year it was general physics because we had absolutely beautiful a lecture and a half his books even now I have over there he wrote like a lot of books solution see booking yeah and he was very interesting personality I wasn't laughed with him for I would say two years no more than that because his idea was you have to present physics absolutely without calculus so it should be no derivatives and no integration how's how's that possible just do you do physics you can most you say physics you mean like mechanics oh no no no no no physics means physics it's mechanics it's a thermal sciences its electricity optics and nuclear physics everything MODOK ever was that okay the only thing he didn't attach it was no quantum mechanics was quantum mechanics in the air back then yeah obvious but not for this gentleman not for this professor he was not so much he was no famous scientist he was a famous teacher and then only then I just you know jump to the world of theoretical physics and and chemistry so and that the next step in my life is just jumping into theoretical physics and what what branch of theoretical physics were you interested in so I've never actually heard you talk much about the world is the big like general relativity so looking out into the Stars you were more interested in like what physics phenomena were you interested in now or that that so at that time at that time after this two years with civilian I just changed completely to absolutely opposite approach to purely theoretical physics and at that time the most popular it was the so-called run down minimum so run down ten books and they are believe me they are Wow so they are so hard yeah they are just for some reasons areas you know hardest of the hardest like very challenging very difficult and it's the boy is so just they say if you want to show yourself you have to go to the so-called endowment we should have to go through ten exams actually eleven because the first one is was mathematics and then whatever physics one physics to physics ten and you know it was a challenge it was very difficult I went through that just actually I don't know just to prove yeah that I can do that to be honest I did not in the end at least I hate that because it was mm not so much it is not fine one you know it is just something opposite to that do the opposite yeah yeah but it's it's painful almost for the sake of being painful yes it's like it's like you are doing the martial arts yeah that's just to show you yourself that you can do that yeah so that's what I did and then when I was actually I was keep doing that but in the middle it was the first time when I came to Kolkata means to the photonic energy so speaking of which what is the couch out of Institute of atomic energy and who was your so I feel like in VCF there's an advisor mm-hmm so who was your advisor who were the mentors in in this period of your life uh most greens the physics and technology it's very interesting approach it's a so-called physics system yeah what does it mean it means at first three years you work in classes and then you go to actual national labs and you choose them they choose us etc and three years you work there and you listen to the classes but these classes they are not from teachers not from teaching professors but from very very high level actual scientists so and who was so who was the the person who was the person that you connected with who was your advisors in that fourth year fifth year yeah well and what's coach Atif so that's one of that's that's the connection yeah yeah cool chatter it's that's downtown Moscow right oh yeah yeah cool shot of its the guy is like a father of Russian atomic bomb and he build a bigger actor in central Moscow the interest and all that it was in nineteen in 1919 1946 I think you know they do the first rector and then the bump and 1949 so and it was a it's it's you know like in America there is a group of national labs different like Oak Ridge National Lab Los Alamos National Lab Argonne National Lab etcetera in Russia I would say most of this lab they were combined together in this one Kolkata Institute of atomic energy so it's like you can imagine like a combination of most of American national labs in one place it was fifteen thousand people working there fifteen thousands a huge it's like a sitting inside of city and when they were created they were focused on nuclear physics and nuclear engineering and everything around development to build atomic bomb and the same thing for [Music] fusion bombs so for hydrogen bound and but later they add solid phase physics groups etc so yes it was a I would say any still now the most I would say the strongest research center and also with you so I decided to go there and I decided to go to plasma so in January in 1972 I came to they did not let me inside of crucial minutes I came only to the gate and I met my first professor who brought me there it was professor Liang he threw the coffe he is now professor emeritus of University of Maryland I saw him couple of years ago was that and he brought me to his house and he we spoke and just he said I just remember forever he he told me you want it's like a the story with winnie pooh and he said you wanna tea with milk or with honey or and and my answer was exactly the same as we needed poo I did not talk we need opposed that time I say okay all of the above please because why because you're hungry very simple and he spoke to me and he started working it was and I made my first actually paper you wrote your first paper that's who you were and I was on plasma it wasn't asthma and but then in the half of a year he told me that he likes what we are doing but he will be unable to help me in the life because I am Jewish and to a Jewish person even like absolutely brilliant to get inside of course Chetta you have a stronger helpers and he recommend me to meet lagina rusinov and very early glasses at that moment so it was a moment when I start new names I know well because of the song as this legendary so because of you I seem to have met a lot of people from fist yeah yeah and much like MIT they're never shy about telling you that they're from fist yeah there's a lot of pride so I notice on the fall maybe you can tell about him the other guy let me guess the gossip when a lot of people these days know from the show of Chernobyl who is but he obviously has deep roots and coaches often is a very interesting person so okay so rusinov who's this legendary human that I've heard so much about well with you know that plasma fusion plasma Elysian talked only like making it stock market it is diagnostic such a measurement characterization so the most challenging is how to measure it so Rose onif was world accepted as a father of plasma diagnostics so he was a very very very nice person working with plasma diagnostics both theory and experiments and at that time in 1973 approximately oh he decided he was asked by League Asif to start plasma chemistry not plasma physics but plasma chemistry because they wanted to dissociate uranium hexafluoride and plutonium hexafluoride and they were unable to do it without like in traditional ways and they decided write plasma so and rusinov agreed to take a lead in plasma chemistry and at that point you see that I was in a good but good moment you know in a good place so I was lucky actually because all of them they were physicists especially Roshan of deeply deeply deeply physicists and he needs help from a good young person who is not afraid of chemistry being physicist so he looked around and rudakov told him that there is a young guy very interesting personality he is a good and physics but he's in laughs chemistry also so try him and to me he said go to row serif he's a tough guy but but he will be able to help you because to help you to stay to go further in your life because his close friend working together with Li Gosselin ligase was associate director vice-president of course Adam Institute so that's how it's all started and they asked me a couple of things can you do this can you do that in chemistry so it is just physicists and talking chemistry so let me step up because I'd like to step back in a little bit to talk about of what is plasma even so but before all that let's talk about ourselves so what let's step away from science what impact did he have on you as a human being what memories do you have of him that you love or hate or both you know I would say the best word would be both because do you remember Ross on of hard to know what I remember because I just told me story personality he's the personality he's he's extremely tough very quiet he is mostly not talking he's only looking at you always in your eyes he's like well that's his brilliant smart he was absolutely smart absolutely brilliant so you can have very tough and tough and so you have to basically makes for a great adviser because this is a person to be afraid of yeah and you have to put you basically for the rest of your life are trying to prove yourself to him yes that's exactly the case with a condition lady met rusinov yeah that's the personality yeah is there a memory a story that stands out to you maybe that represents him well without going to science right without I remember one story just forever one of the I was already not a postdoc well graded student so it was one under grade a student you remember from third grade and muskiness physical ecology and she was supposed to start you know after vacations she came but but something happened and she came about one week later so it's her advisor which is another famous scientist and I was in an office of Mazzara so he brought this girl and it's a nice girl I had not so many girls in EM IPT Investec not so many girls so she came to this office and rusinov he just look at her like a snake you know like look at her without any words for about maybe the one in 30 seconds just look at her eyes and then she said he said your colleagues they start working on the wiki though your what your colleagues well other student yeah other students they are already working start working one week ago that's all he said and kept looking at her just staring and staring right and she you know like his ears started going from her face yeah and it was like a torture its he did injured by silence and staring yes yeah that's a good like a three three minutes but even for me it was like maybe one hour for her maybe it's like whole life okay let's go to the most important question how did you meet mom whoo so this is before coach shot off I suppose around that nine it's no it is already i met mom in 1973 this is second third fourth year of yours well this was my third year no it was my fourth year actually already and for mom it was a second one she was there yeah I told you that it's like three percent so she was one of the girls on it being one of the special few in this special and yeah and she survived this kind of fall so super training divided first year she survived everything yeah I mean so how did how did you okay so there you are part of the 97% yeah with a giant ego as we can already tell by the way does your ego serve you well we'll talk about a little yeah more if you like yes I think yes what about so in science yes I think people will hear that you have a bit of an ego but I think it's the into your it's the same with five minutes the same with I just Leonard Susskind a lot of physicists have this weird dance with ego it's a useful weapon when you wield a cautiously but did it help you in terms of with mom I would not say so about confidence well how did you the most difficult yeah is you know to to go to this because it's a boy so and and girls they live separately in different like this place these are alligators and like what I mean after you have to be clever and how to get to this like a place I mean yeah ah so what happened that on their floor something disappeared I don't know some money or whatever or some books or something and and a friend of mine he was you know like I would say dreaming he we used to say so he was like a student responsible for like everything should be nice so I said that I will help you let's go to these girls and let's try to to help them so we come em start helping and spend then the whole night reading poetry just reading poetry I think with tea that's it reading poetry with tea was you and who else me mom and to my friends and it was also two other girls which leaves the same so do you remember what poems you're really is there something if you can imagine if we are talking about eight hours or whatever in seven hours so it was a lot of for three but is it there's there something from that period that stands out to you maybe as poetry that you were reading not something you've written for mom yet but do you remember from that night I mean it's an important night right yeah oh they remember what kind of tea the cheap one because this song is stuff we used to handle vodka so no no so ok tea and it's like a it was offensive for girls we had a huge respect to that and then gentlemen don't drink vodka in fair enough so at least in the beginning so when did you first fall in love with mom yeah you know when you have like you said it's 97 percent so jay-z important it's immediately one two three yes okay so but she she was beautiful and she's beautiful and it was December 14th and still even now we celebrate this big summer for teens when you met yeah well that's this poetry stuff but is it was the same day was to wait December 14 two days ago so we celebrated 46 years what is today this is you met of this day was tea and poetry but like it there also guitar I think yes and when you say guitar I mean there's a bar tradition as basically poetry to music yeah any kind of lyrics is really important yeah I would say it was 96 percent it was mostly lyrics and guitar it was just like how did you win her over oh that's that's that what's your secret what how'd you do it uh actually also I became her mentor which made my life a little bit easier and you know I started with poetry and I end up with science and then actually and we stay together we married three years after that do you remember any poems you've written her well I'm not no not of course you never say it when I would for 30 years but at that moment I would say like reciting all this life poems it's probably not the best stuff to do now it should be a special discussion about that probably together with her okay what I can say that I have a couple of this book booklets on poetry but it is already not the same I was already not the same it was in in high school which means at the time already most of my poetry was I would say not funny but more like yeah woody playful yeah yeah yeah yeah okay when did you know you will marry her when did you know that you know sort of this is this is gonna be it's the one you remember this one two three yeah maybe not during first five minutes but maybe after 20 minutes yeah I'm gonna marry that one yeah it is very I mean she she she she is beautiful and she was even shocked she was younger me too so just almost immediately but it was clear that we cannot do you know immediately so we're waiting until I graduate from from from from I'm not on the gorilla from master level because you know in Soviet Union it was undergraduate class master it was like higher education and after that it was PhD levels just we wait until I'm done the semester when did you first learn that you will be a father some four people don't know I have an older brother uglier fatter stupider blood and Greg oh he's good just uglier now he's doing 1977 it's no he was born in 1978 so it was not an easy moment for me I would say even very difficult moment because it was a concept in Soviet Union which is difficult to to understand here the so called for a pisco it's just even not possible to translate which means that you have to have a special absolutely complicated permission and normally complicated mission to live in Moscow and Leningrad which is in some Petersburg now so to do that you have to either have to be born there and that's it actually so it was a close series so and I was from Kiev and mom she was a she is from Malaysia so just how to do that in 1976 1977 I was like the first grade of PhD first year of PhD and without this permission to live in Moscow so just it was a difficult moment this is a practical thing because you want to you want to stay in Moscow longer term long because yeah because in Soviet Union Moscow it was like a number one place but mostly easy times this permission that's extremely complicated and because mom is originally from a different area of the Soviet Union yeah and there's called as complications bureaucracy all that kind of she was born she lived in the area for first uranium the most important uranium mines in Soviet Union so that's she's from wearisome so what and that's where you were he was perfect yeah yeah nuclear that explains so much so how did it feel like when one greg was born means just becoming a father what was that story like so yes it's a pain I was very much well obviously I was very happy but I was nervous about future because future was not clear at that time not clear at all about this time my situation was actually very sophisticated well it's a little bit long story but what happened that I get sick and and they did not know where to put me it was infectious and and finally I end up in the house of Sahara which is interesting moment and was mixed all together with Greg births with me being sick with with the sire of all together whatever it was like a vista mess it's just just a stressful mess yeah and when I came to get onto this scoffs to the city and middle Asia in near now they call it urgent oh so it is near her gentle well I was very happy and one of the first hour at that point I wrote my first not book but chapter in the book and the walls the topic plasma chemistry plasma chemistry and topic of my chapter it was synthesis of nitrogen oxide from air and there is a very famous I love it the picture of Greg on the wall when he just you know a couple of weeks and he's read in the book and he's in front and he's just like so much interest and he's reading this plasma chemistry book yeah it's a good picture it's a good picture right so how did it feel like so obviously Greg is a disappointment so how did it feel like when I was finally born oh this you it was a it was way of course way easier and we were way more happier because it was 1983 so which means that we were already in Moscow we got this practice can we got this permission and we got and our apartment so just everything was so nice and so beautiful and and you know cherry on top of this cake it was you and and the only funny story which is like always mom she used to say is like for some reason I don't know even why but everybody were sure that you are a girl and not you but like that is the girl the girl yeah and so everything was prepared for a girl and and we were staying and near this clinic and me and Greg and just and it was now that it is a boy and Greg he mentioned his famous friend that he's so much happy that you're a boy and you know the story also that he was five years old and he was for some reason sure that to that man they make poison and women they make girls and he was so much surprising he said that man she's so good it was impressed yes that she could make a boy a boy yeah yeah so that were you ready to be a father would you say it you know being father it's a big commitment big big big commitment because now it's a real family when Greg was born it was like oh my [ __ ] was a mess so it was very challenging it was very difficult when you were like a fun and nice and everybody they're so happy and even if you look at pictures you know like a picture with you that just yes the following is the smiling it's a happy bring joy to the world yes and basically that's the way you were when they were like you were always you know you wake up you smile that's good it's a good sign very good well let's go let's go so I I wanted to be a psychiatrist selling me psychoanalyze you do you think you were a good dad who well to be honest it's not for me to judge what I am but I can tell you that my whole life I just tried sometimes more successful sometimes less successful to be good dad that it's not for me to judge I mean you know I can give an example like when Greg was very young for me like a very important was on Dow books and I had these 10 books often Dow by the way there are now there but here they're in my office and you know that's the books which I read and just I put my yeah sweat blood and sweat and blood and tears right into this book and what Greg did he just took these books and he took like a this flowmaster what is that like Oh markers markers markers and he everything around is like a the cover of this he drew on it no he just it's like graffiti it's like it's all over this and it was how to say you know for me it was not a good night is sacred I mean yeah and I was just I remember this moment I was so much not happy just you know and I just try to explain and I mean and I ain't even and Greg he keeps saying even now that that he won't he he was sure that he is doing something good that he's just you know that I love these books so he tried to make them even you know prettier prettier yeah that's so what I'm trying to say that welcome to being a dad right there yes yes yes so if you can go back and do something different in terms of being a dad what would you is there something you regret well you know I would say people they're different some people they always say they want a different life and they sure for some reason that if they start again it would be better it is not my case for some reason I don't know maybe this is just like internal friends just to put like you mention about Fineman but I just always try to protect myself and family and just I was sure like my father during the war that if I am strong everything will be good but and as a result believe me or not and it's psychologically it helped me psychologically significantly I really believe that I am always right which is which is strange maybe yeah but it is the way to protect myself I don't know protect family so when you ask me what you would be differently nothing my feeling always is that my son is the best one I always try to give it right sometimes more than necessary and probably it's I'm doing that wrong but but I can not do differently I am I'm sure that I'm right it's a kind of defense mechanism so you fast like so you don't you our family have done a lot to make a better life or for us for me and I think I've seen you work very hard to take steps through life to do make a better life for all of us with you Chris many times and there is a feeling that looks like everything is okay okay okay so while creating sort of creating taking risks but creating opportunities for our family for me for my brother there was to me always I felt a distance so what if I told you you felt distant to me as a father and then I never really felt close to you to this day do you think that's true I don't know what I'm what I can say that I tried as much as possible to be as good father as they can it's sometimes it's difficult to combine the system with this self-protection like it said um so that's you know so there's an interesting it could be a Russian immigrant thing it could be a Jewish thing too but sort of say if you're captain of a boat or something and you see you have somebody precious your family on the boat it seems that you were more focused on just making sure the boat doesn't crash or like sort of focusing on or maybe getting a bigger boat or the for the fail at like there's this focus of the journey in providing and stability and so on then then not actually and not sitting down and enjoying time on the boat that you've built you know I have with with with a family I agree with you but it is not Russian it is not Russian it's the Jewish and it's immigrants because so many times I was very nervous that one thing goes wrong and everything crashes and there are the million things in our life but I am always feeling this point is the most dangerous dangerous here that is okay that is okay that's that's dangerous so I feel this danger and I am overdoing this nervousness and it is always with me and that's why even now at any point I am too much nervous because I see it looks like my feeling is that like people they do not see that this is a deadly point like a crucial battle neck or whatever yeah and and and I know that if I say that directly people it can be not good so I have to play with that in one way or another and so but I would say that it's a typical for Jewish people because they went through hundreds and hundreds and hundreds even a thousand years of problems and also for immigrants because that's immigrant life you remember your own story was high school and the first time came there I mean there is some kind of tiny details which can make your life miserable yeah middle school I mean I was a particularly interesting moment that I think it's an interesting moment that I don't know how to explore correctly because we came to this country so I was maybe 13 I don't even remember those middle school and it was a very different culture change it was a very very very different culture and we went to a it was a it's a middle school stuff for people in general but I went from having a lot of friends from culture that I loved somehow deeply is sort of this math and science and he talked about this I mean there's so many French dug deep friendships to a very shallow place and sort of the difference between what you know everybody I don't discount the suffering of people but I would say I suffered you know you you want to be like that's stupid but I really psychologically suffered and at the same time you were sort of totally unable to understand that obviously because well hold on a second I think you came to America the the step to come to America is a beautiful step of opportunity so there's this the economy of like to me that was a horrible thing for my own selfish personal little experience I didn't see that I didn't you know at that age you don't think about the big picture of things but it's an interesting difference and the step to America is it a really interesting step because you're sacrificing so much of who you are it's a big big leap big leap but it's uh it's the it's a good leap for the future of the family for opportunity for for building a life together and it's an interesting how did you think about that process we'll talk about it a little bit it'll take a step back and talk about it mores are big your family but as a dad as a family not big but let's just day-to-day how did you that move how did you experience it how did you think about it well this is a moment and I can read for you a poetry unfortunately again it's in Russian but I will use no no it's okay I it's only a couple of sentences I will give you from there it's a beautiful very nice very Jewish poet in 1941 beginning of the war so he said catalyst Mirchi dude I used a period eight emotional blockage with summit rudeness yes by you just I should Dania tacky well it's the Thunder fool poem I can read the whole poem later not with the microphone but listen to that you are very nervous before but when it is already attack when you are just already in action you don't think about that so this moment of coming to America the first period I was not nervous I was like like a machine I was doing I was doing that so yeah I mean it's the same when you decide the decision is the right one yeah you see I listen to a three I can just you know it's easy to translate it like when you are going to attack you are singing yeah when you cry it's before that you have the stress the anxiety the tears but when you already repair yeah you believe in your star and you go and you don't think much well let me pause on this as I asked you if you think you were a good father what what you know was I good son yes the better one then Greg obviously but no but what what would you know without any hesitation I can say that you were and you are very good son because you understand when you're talking and it was from the beginning he always even if I never kid you're not kids usually they think about themselves and they see the whole world is rotating around them but you were way less serious for many years you just used so people around you are able to to see okay this is this is my version thesis further I mean II you just see people and that's incredible also just from the like first months of your life you're laughing smiling yeah and believe me it is not so many kids are doing that which means that somewhere deeply in your I don't know where its genes probably I don't know you were smiling so you know like whenever I see it's a good person or not so good person take a look at the personal and this person wakes up some people they wake up and the immediate is smile ultimate that's something I don't know it's like a miracle so you are okay so thank you for being a good son yeah maybe I'm not so good father that's another story but well the this context makes it much more important for me to criticize you it makes it impossible for you to criticize me which is exactly how I set it up okay but so you mentioned the gossip as one of the people in your story Kirchhoff Institute can you tell the story and your involvement in Chernobyl sort of that played a part in our lives as well so what's the story there what is Chernobyl okay for people who don't know yeah Chernobyl it's a it's a small city town with a huge nuclear power plant um and it's a place of world ever biggest nuclear severe accident the reason of this accident the best if you know Lex but other people they can watch the movie which is HBO show yeah HBO show very good actually I did not expect but it is really very good oh the major reason is they just went through special tests and just testing new regimes and they start to decrease activity of reactor very fast and the reactor starts dying and they just increase activity and then they were unable to stop it and temperature go very high metal clothing start reacting with cooling water producing hydrogen hydrogen reacts with oxygen and it was a huge hydrogen explosion the so-called DDT and because of this explosion actually a very very very very heavy like a tip of the reactor jump up low down and forty tones or something like that I froze huge just then destroy the whole reactor and all this nuclear fuel start falling down create some critical mass and it was nuclear explosion but not contained so yes it was what part of the story did the show get right and what part of story did you get wrong any of you would be gossips just things you've experienced a person so I just very shortly described what happened yes that like it was this kind of already nuclear expansion and everything from inside was boom went out and actually with the wind make almost a half circle around the world so that's accident for instead of atomic energy it was a very big deal because the whole community the whole country actually they consider that this huge Institute is responsible for this accident so the reaction don't forget it's a communist country they decided it's like like an army that all people all scientists they are responsible dust matter whatever if you do in plasma or you're doing nuclear reactor does matter you have to go and help you want it you don't want it you like it you don't like it in the movie it was shown but I would say movie is about 97 percent absolutely right absolutely it's unbelievable how good they made this nice they made this movie there from the people the culture the science every single interaction the bureaucracy yeah yeah yeah yeah they did not overdo that because it's very easy to go like it's a communist country that's why and vice-versa so they did it the very good harmony is very good balance yeah that was perfect were they wrong here at least my impression is that they show the apartment of Lagasse's the gossip was actually almost the copy of real digas visually - yes yes yes yes as this actor he looks like legal and just you know Wow just like as a good actor actually it's a good actor British you know and that's but it was shown that's like a little bit of already American propaganda they show this leg Asif living in like a small apartment like a smoking cigarettes all right no come on it was can you imagine like a vice president of Academy of Sciences vice president if he leaves an apartment commercially in the Soviet Union where that position means you get you get handed given out the apartment he lead no not an apartment it was like a special house belonging to him it is like a next door to the Institute it this house did not belong to him yeah but that's where he lived so just he lived like an you know Castle and like the movie it was what's your memory of him have you know you know madam come on he's my supervisor so like ok so it's like a heavy it's like it like Marcia for you yeah like I had like a serif and like for you it was severe and like lagarza for me it's like a motion cam so did have chance to see more should come yeah is he or laughing it's like the other day every day my feeling is he was very good in nuclear chemistry he was he was a member and very significant member of Communist Party the difference was Roseanna Roseanna was not very much liking Communist Party well the gossip he was so he was a secretary of communist party organization of crucial Institute for a couple of years so this kind of personality so he was a great scientist very interesting very bright but at the same time he was a communist and he kind of believed in this communist ideas and he took all that responsibility very close to his heart and that's exactly like it is shown in the movie especially when the director of the Chernobyl station made a incredibly strange mistake because the wrecker was already destroyed you remember my explanation but what they see the temperature is going up and his decision was you know you're an artificial intelligence not so much in physics and chemistry but if temperature is going up what people will do if they are not professionals let's put water there and he made the decision to put an enormous amount of water into the rector to cool it down but people they took him come on I guess we have seen couple of seconds ago there is no reactor there is nothing to cool down because it's now can we mention this huge temperature and you put water into this huge temperature and metals metals immediately react with water producing hydrogen so actually what they did it's it's it's it's extremely bad and it's nicely shown in the movie they made the decision for three people to go inside under director and open the valve to let this hot water to let this water out and these people they did it obviously it was clear that they were going today do you think the accident could have been avoided the Chernobyl accident you know it's so deeply interlinked just Soviet culture they know why no you know how to say is it possible to be sure that it will be no fire in the city um it is it's very low probability it's a sexual incidence it's a couple of stuff with extremely low probability happened at the same time but it was really important stuff Chernobyl happened first of all because it was no automatic system of control it was impossible if they say already accident there is no automatic system to stop it oh why because it's a huge reactor very heavy very very very heavy in big way bigger than reactors which we have here in the United States so this is a more difficult to control so I would say it was clear for many people that sooner or later it will be this accident and actually it is a copy of accident which happened in America and try my Island it's very similar but American accident was more better controlled so it was not so huge l still see their excellent well the gossip he took the stuff very close to his heart and and it is very nicely shown in the movie and actually that's why he suicide he took his own life here yeah and by the way he tried twice first time not successful a second one so there's a there's a journey of suffering there afterwards he he he took you know he were the burden of credit for that the responsibility and yes because actually he was claiming that these reactors are the safest in the world yeah and they are but the they're way more resistive to small accidents right but they have this tiny chance of severe accident even now a lot of these records are still the same are still the same and still around okay let's get into the fun can you tell me what is plasma the simple explanation would be like the plasma it is what we have in fluorescent lamps if you look around in your own it is something you have in all kind of sources like a most of monitors TV screens etc significant number of them let's plays most plasma plasma is ionized gas what does it mean like we have gas around us and let's say with electric field electrons are separated from ions so yes you take electron out of molecule so molecule becomes positive ion and electron is separate with an iron iron it's if you take if take an atom or molecule and take one electron out would stay there so iron it is like a atom or molecule after the saraburi when they lost an electron and what's interesting about anion okay very second probably going to apply electric field whoever is lighter take energy immediately energized very fast so I ins they stay regularly usually they stay cold because they are heavy they are not very much moving so they are stay cold while electrons are energized almost immediately yeah and their temperature in most of plasmas whatever you do electron temperature is usually on ballpark it's about ten fifteen thousand Kelvin or Celsius which means twenty thirty thousand Fahrenheit hot so electrons are very very very very very hot and ions like gas they're usually in most cases they're cold so if I take like a cell phone and touch the screen well inside you have where you often have electrons with the temperature 20 30,000 Fahrenheit but you cannot feel it why because it's a one electron per million of molecules it's not so many of them it's like let's say Syria Philadelphia do we have billionaires in the city of Philadelphia maybe 100 but it's but it's not so much easy to meet them on the street because it's only one or two for a huge city so the same story here so plasma it is very energized electrons and usually relatively cold gas but these electrons they can do a lot like these billionaires in Philadelphia few have like a couple of these billionaires they can do a lot it's only two of them but actually they can influence life in the city more than air itself because they have abilities the same story there so electrons depending on gas they are able to create very active species so they can be used as a source of light like a fluorescent lamps and they can be used to three different materials so most of synthetic well I would say 100% of synthetic materials they are treated before coloring because like you have a nice black tie but how to make tag black if it is synthetic if it is natural is solid real but if it is synthetic material and if you try you know paint synthetic material you know pain does not stick to it so you plasma treat it this electron will activate the surface and colors they start sticking to the surface what is me to activate a surface so there's a lot of plasma is interacting somehow of the surface well this human skin yeah some kind of surface so what does it mean to treat a surface okay try it station but it's you know if you have polymer like in the case of your tie if I would like a polymer what what this electron does is just create or H and this 4-h take hydrogen out of your tie and this is a opening bond and usually oxygen stick to there and become polar so you cover the surface with the polar groups which are always sticky so that's what is going on you just take one atom out you have free bound oxygen there polar groups here stick you can paint if if you put a droplet droplets of whiskey on the suffer of glass it will stay like a droplets but if you just plasma treat this glass and then you put drop the drop leg loops immediately cover very significant area okay so let's let's step back a little bit so there's solid liquid gas he said yeah it's ionized gas why is plasma sometimes called the fourth state of matter so what's the difference between gas and ionized gas mm-hmm such that it's a fundamental difference it is a fundamental difference because like what is going on that this ionized gas immediately has very different behavior the world plasma was actually created just because of similarity with blood plasma so like you asked the difference between plasma and gas it is about the same difference like difference between water and blood so species inside a blood they're very much interacting with each other while water they're not much interacting so why here wing length mirror in 1930 436 he started using the word plasma versus ionized gas because he said take a look take a look take a look this species they interact with each other and another so there's there's echoes connections to inspiration from blood plasma yes and the degrees of the interactivity more than that so the the guy who just Nobel Prize laureate earring lender was at first for analyzed by the interaction plasma search on the surface so you can say that he's like a father of modern electronics hardware so he come up with this world take a look this plasma is kind of funny it looks like a blood plasma and people they start like using this phrase like a joke then you know like it was really like it stuck oh that's really interesting okay so you said electrons really hot so so traditionally plasma is supposed to be very high-energy very hot mm-hmm so he said train its electrons but there's a hot plasma and cold plasma so we'll 244 okay in hot plasma everything is hot so if you have more electrons and they are able to heat up the whole gas it's a hot plasma like solar plasma the Sun or Sun solar plasma Sun uh and in this case temperature is very high fusion plasmas so just everything is very hot in most of engineering plasmas today including your cell phones including fluorescent lamps etcetera etcetera or in these case only electrons are there huts and they are unable to heat up everybody it's like this couple of billionaires in the city of middle-class people and but these electrons there if it is air for example they just electrons they react with oxygen making atomic oxygen atomic oxygen immediately produce ozone so atomic oxygen sticks - OH - creating OHS oh by the way ozone means I think in Latin means smell so the name of the guy who first saw that it was Siemens if you remember company Siemens so that's the creator of this company because he was the first one to understand this ozone and said wow it smells then he they use like a legend or third word for that it was on and they start using ozone for water cleaning right so what's hot plasma and what's cold plasma she said in the cold plasma the electrons like the billionaire's is the only thing that stays hot so what hospital asthma everybody be on earth and so in terms of applications in terms of the theoretical physics under underpinning what's the difference between hot plasma and cold plasma there's entire groups of researchers that work on that yes yes you know the fundamental difference is when everything is 10,000 degrees what we can do with this material with this plasma it's like everything is ten thousand like a ten thousand Kelvin like a twenty thousand Fahrenheit what you can do I mean that stuff melts everything and convert everything into vapor when so scientifically it's very easier because it's like as close to thermodynamic equilibrium so just very very very hot substance one is hella many applications applications the major application is if you wanna melt something which require temperature above yeah 2,000 Celsius which is what the Isis torches so if you want if you want a hot metal metal you can actually you can cut metal with most of metals they are just you know they melt it on the level of below 2000 so for these metals with some exceptions but for these metals fire you know combustion torches there okay now if you want to melt something which is impossible to melt like a special hard ceramics if you cannot melt it with anything first of all why do you need it why do you need melt something which is impossible to Makaha if you let's say if you want to protect your airplane your airplane it's a good idea to cover airplane with a thin layer of a substance which is impossible to to melt which is not afraid of anything not afraid of lightning not afraid of anything how to do that you have to melt we have to cover it with this material but to cover we have to melt it now how to melt something which is impossible to weld well you have to take plasma so plasma goes hot flash thermal plasma goes to this huge temperature then you put this powder you melt it and you spray what's thermal plasma that's the heart kind of that's a high temperature plasma okay so what's cold plasma then and what kind of temperatures are we talking about what's this world in terms of applications and theory thence now fundamentally different from the heart a kind cold plasma it is even it's it's situation when you have electrons only electrons are hot and they generate a lot of active species radicals atoms so they can treat different materials they can make very sophisticated structures but temperature is low so you do not damage so let's say jumping for special intelligence if you are talking about computer how to make computer how to make this wafers how to make these chips yeah you have to be able to dig tiny tiny tiny tiny tiny ditches how to do that you have to have you cannot use mechanical devices so you have to have something different beams lasers no because laser is heating its temperature but you cannot take if you just use laser you go to temperature eternal thousand degrees you will damage phone cannot withstand this temperature yes the same computer so that's why there is no alternative today only cold plasma to make I would say vast majority of electronics devices so hardware it's almost you say hardware it is that so let me beautifully put what's now you said application we'll talk about some applications including plasma medicine but from a if we if you put on your theoretical physicist or chemist like fundamental science higher what are the interesting problems in plasma mysteries they're not yet understood or things that have been recently understood I've seen you talk about incredible applications but let's step let's not cover that first is there some open problems how was it understood from a theoretical perspective I can give you a couple of examples it's a lot of mysteries a lot why because it is strongly non equilibrium medium almost every cells which we have around us it's an equilibrium what what does I mean what does it mean for a medium to be an equilibrium equilibrium means it has temperature has temperature yeah some temperature like this is let say room temperature well no I mean what you mean by that is there's a uniformity to it uniformity in temperature not space uniformity but homogeneity like it's near if temperature now can you imagine something which has a couple of different temperatures at the same point as it possible yeah that's what it is so electrons are very hot but they are inside of gas and gas is cold like like people they are swimming in the ocean so temperature of a person is higher but here just temperatures way way way here now what starts happening in this case it's a lot of finding miracles a lot of funny miracles for example electron impact creates excitation of molecules to molecule a stylus oscillate and people will learn that distribution this becomes very strange energy rich molecules they they take more energy when they have already something and okay rich people they become richer and poor people then becomes more poor exactly the same thing they call it capitalism in molecular life happens in plasma so what is going on you take molecules in plasma excite and very fast against all the rules of whatever nature couple of molecules they have to quantum and they have more and more and more and more than normal and very soon make some molecules they have everything and most of molecules have nothing as a result if you have this kind of non equilibrium immediately creates lasers so this is one of the reason why lasers first offers lasers they were created in plasma even now the most energetic like co2 laser except plasma lasers and there's also plasma laser plasma it's very accelerated application but physics is here I can explain it's a little bit longer how it works but it's very similar to what is going on with people if you already have money it's easier for you to attract new money if you are actually poor sooner or later you will lose your money in the favour of rich people not sure how well the analogy works but probably but they're saying that there's some fascinating complicated instability about that hole but it's interesting it's interesting instability its instability not space instability its energy instability here it's like a yes you said capitalism capitalism at the molecular level it's a capitalism it's a like a wild capitalism yeah where just everything works against the middle class who's the Bernie Sanders in this physics analogy I'm just kidding that's a who's the social oh okay and I don't know let's not take this analogy that's interesting that you know that plasma works works against Bernie Sanders so nature nature yeah nature's as a is a more Republican it's a more of a public nature is Republican well no not nature at in plasma Nanakuli it's only non equilibrium class non-equilibrium plasma equilibrium plasma it's everything it's very much Bernie Sanders it's very much harness distribution yeah well non equilibrium plasmas let's live a short life and die quickly so yes so if you want a long peaceful existence you want to go that's one of the reasons why will these Bernie Sanders in visit that's very interesting that but for this reason non-equilibrium plasma cold plasma is able to produce way more miracles as miracles meaning very interesting strange errand rapturous patterns treatment like you cannot use hot plasma to make electronic device well you can do it it's just one example another example is like a recently I came yesterday well yeah yesterday from Japan so we presented ionization of liquids not gases so it's a lot of interesting new stuff Oh liquids very interesting yeah so you've mentioned physics in chemistry what is plasma physics what is plasma chemistry in terms of application in terms of theory what are the different lenses of physics and chemistry that you used to explore plasma and how do they differ you have books on each yes the simplest I think that it was fine one who was asked what is physics and I think it's him and after some thinking he said well that's what physicists do yeah so that's a good point so actually it's a nice way to say that's a stupid question but it gives the question of more of a chance so what's the difference between plasma physics does McGuinness in even physics and chemistry more broadly and can I mean I don't know what's the more easier distinction to draw yeah I can compare with languages like what's the difference between English language and Chinese language in one case you have how many I forgot 23 or whatever characters how many well yeah it was five okay something-something twenties yeah and in Japanese Oh in the Chinese you have ten thousand forty thousand characters so Chinese it's chemistry English it's physics physics has small number of rules and laws of nature and operates with that so understanding let's say how to ionize gas it's physics understanding how to create plasma in liquid it's physics understanding how to make a device how to make a light source plasma light source it's physics now when we are coming to Chinese I'll I mean to this chemistry it means that there is a million different tables not rules tables yes it's tables instead of rules and so what's not going on you just look at that and see oh my gosh this glass my special another equilibrium plasma creates thousands of species and we have to understand what kind of species and sometimes you need these species but you don't need these species so how to have more of that and I would have less of these there is no rules well there are some rules but about as much as in create creating Chinese characters so a lot of it is a lot of the knowledge in plasma chemistry is discovered through experimentation yeah and I would say chemistry is more art physics is a little bit more science like linguistics you know English language it's possible that's also a lot of challenges but it's simple well talking about simple and complicated going from physics to chemistry let's go to biology one of the exciting feels that you're one of the founders of his plasma medicine what is plasma medicine ok cold plasma cold plasma creates a lot of species interesting species unexpected species you remember this capitalism in molecular life you can a little bit change parameters and it can be wrong look I start generating this strange substance it's a twisted so plasma is very sensitive the difference is like a human body and asthma generates very interesting active species actually to be honest almost exactly the same so professor David graves he keeps saying that he was impressed and he looked you know books of medical biology books and he said like a species active species inside of human body and in Copeland's they're the same so plasma create is very interesting stuff and it was clear for people from the beginning like already for more than hundred years that if you put plasma in contact with human body you can treat some diseases you can do a lot of stuff the problem was that if plasma is energetic and you put this energetic plasma in contact with human body you kill the person so actually the whole point the whole interesting point of plasma medicine so plasma medicine came from physicists actually where it become possible to make uniform not damaging very energetic plasmas example at atmospheric pressure example we have atmospheric pressure around atmosphere and there is a lightning lightning is hot and very energetic and very damaging plasma sources plasma discharges like lightning it's impossible to use to treat human body you'll just throw a lot of this fry fry do you kill the competition yeah now what happened like when 16 years ago it was the first time when physicists to learn how to make lightning not like concentrated in a tiny channel to be diffused and just around a big big big big area like to make it something like a aurora borealis from lightning and it was actually in 1990s a lot of like efforts it was a French approach they just etc but finally we won because what we it was like a out-of-the-box solution to make extremely short electric paths short especially or temporarily in time time in time so let's say because we have when we have lightning between clouds and ground it's like a continuous voltage but if we apply this voltage between skies and ground let's say couple of nanoseconds there is no time to create the Lightning Channel just simply no time so what is going on you start creating something like aurora borealis so you have a glowing everywhere because there is no time to create a channel so you make this pulse and then you stop yes and then you repeat this pulse again then you stop and you repeat this pulse again so through this not a second passing it impossible to create a uniform class and if plasma is uniform it's not damaging aurora borealis you will not kill anybody with lightning you will so that allows you not damaging to now start allowing plasma to interact with the human body somehow so treating tissues for example yes why is that interesting what yeah what kind of applications are we talking about okay today the biggest application is related to treatment of chronic wounds like our source especially diabetic ulcers also recently treatment of cancers because our plasma sources are permitted to be used during surgeries so when like a surgeon is making surgery he removes cancer but some margins are not treated so they start using this plasma just to remove tissue bad tissue without damage because it is instead of like a scalpel it's like a jet small jet for wounds it's a very effective generation of the stimulation of angiogenesis so just drawing all blood vessels so that's I would say two most successful applications today what plasma related Nobel Prizes do you think will be given in the next 50 years so if you look at at the big ideas in plasma what do you think is there to be discovered understood or may have already been understood and and will be recognized for it okay closer to our field at least where we are playing and if we are fielders our I would say cold plasma for magical biological applications I would say if there is a significant actually accepted by FDA etc success and treatment of cancer there is a big chance to get Nobel Prize what discipline would you get it will be medicine in medicine that's fascinating that's fascinating it is this another example which I like a lot personally it is this plasma ionization of liquids without bubbles that's the chance so to get Nobel Prize for that because its first of all it's a fascinating physics ionization of liquids are bubbles what's the niche of the bubbles that form if you take liquid and put like a two electrodes in the liquid to ionize liquids you need a huge electric field at least that's what most people they used to think because mean free path is small so electrons they they have to be accelerated to have this huge energy so it's either electric field is huge or there is enough distance just route to accelerate now if you have liquid that's no much place to to go so you have to have about a thousand times greater electric field or you have to create some voids if you create voids and send of liquor that's okay now that's what people that you still believe but maybe about five seven years ago people they understood that even when they have very high electric bill but not a huge and they start having ionization of liquid so just the same as plasma in fluorescent lamps but you have the same thing in liquid and first one's very interesting physics is a longer story to explain that's very interesting physics but also that interest application because you have possibility to have cold plasma inside of liquid so you can synthesize new materials you can do something so that was the reason like I came a couple of yesterday making this presentation of these discharges and creation of this in the initial creation of polymeric nitrogen because people they don't have nitrogen polymers today and that's in cold plasma it was synthesized so it is very interesting from fundamental point of view of synthetic chemistry but nobody were able to make like this kind of change from nitrogen right so that was created it's very interesting now this material at normal conditions is converted back to regular nitrogen releasing huge energy way more than any explosive materials so okay so those are two interesting ideas yeah close close to your heart what about what about the Sun what about hot thermal plasma do you think there's an interesting open problems there that will help us understand the universe or something like that I don't think so today there is no I think for for thermal plasma there is very low chances for Nobel Prize kind of results however there is a so called fusion plasmas so plasmas because the thermal plasma which we discuss it's it's thermal engineering plasmas it's it's plasmas like melting welding these kind of applications coatings and surface of the Sun surface of the Sun but if you go to higher temperatures you have fuel nuclear fusion but if in normal plasma thermal plasma temperature is about ten thousand Kelvin ten thousand for fusion you have to have 100 million so it's more Wow so inside the Sun it's a deeply inside and the physics there is interesting physics is extremely interesting because it's a lot of questions with stability and this plasma this kind of temperature you behave very different so it is it is I would say super fluidic material so it's just it's it's do you think there's possible breakthroughs in terms of using fusion as an energy source or somehow in you know that kind of like a crazy ideas were out there ideas but on this podcast I talk to people about aliens and traveling across the universal if you want to travel across the universe you're gonna have to write healing is that my feeling is that like a fusion plasma in its traditional way which was started in my Sahara in 1953 almost no chances well I mean they have it they have it already but the system is so complicated this tokamaks this big eater become tokamak is so complicated so difficult that personally it's difficult for me to believe that it will be like a real energy generating plant so this is being up to control fusion in order to leverage if yeah hey just say try already for how many years of oxygen that's an interesting point that's what I'm trying to say let I am almost sure that at some point hopefully soon it will be young I'm not very much young but usually young out-of-the-box thinking person who will say guys take a look I did it something like envision some Thai confusion you know there's a lot of guys and girls like that who are called crazy who've been talking about cold fusion for decades yeah so you think you hope that there is a breakthrough idea that my lease yes hey I'm almost sure about that and I can't explain you simple physics if it's forty seconds thirty side it one and take longer put okay don't try me take a look take a look what is fusion you take the etherium three two or the state of the cerium you bring them together and they fuse and you they release energy that's it right the problem is that this is iron this design they're positively charged and we have to bring them extremely close and energy required for that is 10 10 100 million degrees that's what they try to do now now take a look why we have to bring them so much close we can bring them a little bit and it will be tunneling so they will start tracking it require more time yes but that's okay but to do that you have to have three smaller sizes you have to have dense matter maybe 30 40 50 times denser than what we have now how to do that you have to replace electron by something very similar to electron but heavier ions if you do that immediately substance becomes smaller and you start having cold normal fusion but like a production and reproduction of this material it's kind of complicated people there try what I'm trying to say that somebody will come up with an interesting out the box solution that's what I believe well you're right a lot of people they're a little bit I would say not professionally just think oh look I did it but but between these people or between serious scientists thinking out of the box Samson will happen tokamaks yes they work but there's so much complicated it's very difficult to keep 100 million degrees for isn't a long time just very difficult beautiful unless whatever will do that Nobel Prize without any question okay the way okay refill refill you soon baby shoes never do it okay we talked about coming to here's to you okay doing good three hours in we talked about the journey to America a little bit but let's take a step back it seems like an unlikely journey that has to do with a bunch of different factors ideas hopes and dreams and goals and plans why did we move to America as a family can you tell the story there narrowly and broadly as our big family that's a lot of details out of like a interesting stuff which happened at the same time together first of all I was already in France most of time which made situation easier to go to America but absolutely significant role was played by captain's family what is the Caplan's family yeah it is our last name is Friedman yes taking attention yeah what's good Kaplan it's a it's the name of four of your grand grandmother yours my grandmother my great grandmother your great-grandmother so her name was Kelly rich and when her family came in America they changed name to Kaplan's and it was forbidden to contact family during an early period you need to reach outside the country Soviet Union to which so there's this big family well not that I'm not big but now big Kaplan family they came to yes yeah and my father he your grandfather had this interesting picture and without much hopes he wrote a letter without speaking English and you saw this everywhere it is said like a Jew newspaper and the word Jew was G spot on g g e-- w yeah newspapers Cincinnati lit it America and we got to his destination and that's like a miracle yeah that the letter came to this direction it's interesting because the newspaper published the letter yeah that's uh it's it's kind of America and that yeah it's a it's a miracle so that's started the miracle they gave a catalyst that was a catalyst yeah it was an action and just as a result you know we met and just an it was a catalyst for me to accept the position already for friends position of a full professor in University of Illinois and Chicago and that's actually how we moved to Chicago so did you ever think that you would come to America honestly no even with my good friends we were usually talking and my plans when I understand that it's better for a scientist to go like outside of South Soviet Union Europe Daniel dos tres and my choice was clearly friends and we usually say that I spoke with Boris Potemkin that I always say that I will go to France I said well and I want to go to South America Oh but actually heaven all the way opposites oh yes okay I spoke way better French language yeah and I started a new French taking French that there was there was a there was an alternate reality where we moved to France and I'm French yeah and you're French and chances for death were very high fifty-fifty kind of thing I mean I remember there being is pretty certain that we're going to France yeah it was more than 50% yeah because we have already I mean it was very very high chance yeah you remember the picture I show you over there with me or with French people without been shooting off ski few no remember I just forever remember like I'll mention I have ski he loves you he useful oh he's a lobbyist yeah yeah and he plays very nice piano yeah it's a very very nice people and there's a different world of scientists a different perhaps more pure in their pursuit of science a more support for the kind of labs and the spirit of the scientific process it's uh America's academic research system is a little bit more capitalistic I guess an American professor spends about 50 percent of time looking for funding and they're a little bit more independent meaning their own little startup more it's very difficult to do an institute and so on speaking of which I don't know how I forgot to mention but the Institute you're you've headed the Drexel than I am plasma Institute for a long time from 2002 from 2002 what was that journey like of all the many brilliant people that have worked there through the years all the different ideas having an institute in America is an interesting thing in itself yes all the other what's that journey been like wow it was very exciting and very challenging and I would say that I work very hard but I would say I was very much lucky that I was able to bring who is me a nice group of people with Nestor good Sal poor chef and more recently ordinary chant and then he'll the bring in a lot now and in others so it was a lot of people and they were good and it was a very nice feeling of how to say camaraderie camaraderie yeah in a living including Greg who made a huge contribution to that Norma's so it is like it's my brother yep and I've been on the outside of that sort of looking in so I know a lot of these people they're good and either stick or they're almost like a part of family I know they're part of our story in America really yeah I know the yeah and we have a handsome and to remember of my time plus miniseries yeah yeah yeah low head don't be shy no no no fear no fear yeah don't be shy go head NPI and P I'd you write that yeah you know eighth grade your poetry has been going down downhill and me we talked about that a lot that writing poetry English like she's much more difficult it's it's a and hence why it's not as popular it's it's not more popular gifts through in music through hip hop through rap that's the popular kind of poetic writing is in America basically in France it is very closer to Russia the French language allows uh yeah French language allows for at least like song oriented poetry what would you say is the difference between the Soviet Union in America that kind of maybe to ask it another way what do you miss about the Soviet Union about Russia about Ukraine you see that while me and other people which came in our generation which came from Russia Ukraine Soviet Union we just we were not happy absolutely not happy with the political system over there but I would say without an exception we are all I would say deeply in love with Russian culture which is absolutely unique and absolutely beautiful and my and my feeling that while I like American culture also but a rationalist way closer to my heart and I think it's way richer the same thing is approach to science which in Russia was very let's first of all I like it because I was younger which is always nice to be young but you know this kind of feeling of science is more important than everything else and being a professor it is the most prestigious profession that's kind of interesting culture but but the political system was not good and nice now it's also challenging but what do you think about Putin with my Boonton insurgent of Putin came to power after we left yeah to sound here mm exactly you remember this moment when we were in Miami Beach New Year's New Year it was exactly the day when putting the came a president because absolutely unexpectedly one day before that it was like a New Year greeting from a president at that time Boris Yeltsin and he said happy holidays Happy New Year guys and you know what I decided to step down oops and just I wanna another person to lead the country different transition periods and then we have elections so that's day so we talk and I in different ways also love certain parts of Russia and there's still a part of me even though it's I didn't spend there more than 13 years or whatever but Putin represents modern Russia so that's why I asked if it's you know we're we're Americans now really but what do you think about this man who's caring who's defining the 21st century Russia I would say there is a to phrases to sayings which come into my mind you see you gave me 10 seconds to think which is important there is a saying the end justifies the means you know who said that it's a there is a book here it's a it's a Machiavelli oh this is by the way his sculpture well so the the head yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah I know but straight I said Machiavelli in the book prince he said that the ends justifies dreams another phrase it's another nice guy maximilien robespierre he used to say you cannot make an omelet without breaking eggs on a papaya they have them let the Sun Casa deserve yeah that's a Robespierre and these two phrases actually they describe for me at least Putin you know that his way of thinking is it was a huge jerk catastrophe because think for a second huge Soviet Union were Russians they were everywhere - people Russian Russian and in during a short period of time boons it is a 15 independent countries what the hell and and like significant I don't know I would say almost half okay a lesson help but very significant number of Russians they become like his people living in other countries not very much friendly to Russia so he put all his efforts to change it to to make it easier and better that and this is the ends which justifies means and he is breaking a lot of eggs and he's making a lot of not good steps but for the good purpose now just what I keep thinking that Russian Empire it is a not first Empire to disappear now take a look what happened to other empires French Empire oh my gosh they had enormous lis problems very similar to Putin and you know who was there Putin it was the goal because in late 1950s it was an enormous war in Algeria and the whole group of Maghreb countries and you know what happened they just even stopped the Republic and they create absolutely new constitution and it was actually absolute disaster in late 1950s early 1960s but they actually went out faster than Russia well why it's a different story now take a look another huge the biggest empire in the world it's a British they lost their empire and huge number of British people they just stay somewhere the same thing like Soviet Union but interesting enough they they they made it they made like this other countries which get rid of British Empire but they were still in love with the Queen they become part of this Commonwealth and it was relatively smooth so British they did excellent job French hmm like always you know yeah yeah tariffs but Russia so far doing not good so they are just they they try to help they try to make this kind of but they break a lot of eggs should I interview Putin on his podcast piece is a very interesting personality he's very smart and try but sure but what you want to talk about because power future of Russia future of Russia and is great and it's right no no no not not doing not in those kinds of questions but in the kind of omelet and eggs way and in the space of technology sort of innovation of science of becoming a superpower again which is where you have to you know the space race he will like this kind of discussion because what I know about him by the way he supports the platform Edison little asthma medicine yes because when he defined like a three or whatever four major directions of development of science he mentioned those are the three owners and plasma medicine yeah okay interesting he really thinks that the ends justifies the means so he is not afraid to make any kind of decision but to make country stronger and and he did actually he did a very good job from the word review of you know all other republics they were saying that I have all our problems is because of freshmen but what Russia can say if all these problems because of yeah he took responsibility but with power authoritarians power can is very useful but it can also cloud your judgment you can slowly become a lesser man that you could have otherwise been without being checked so doing the complicated instantaneous it's a complicated interesting story so you can compare him with maximilien robespierre so without a microphone between us we often talk about artificial intelligence you have a lot of opinions like you said you're always think you're right and you're right you know yeah barely half of the time no I'm right absolutely always it was exceptional of cases yeah when I'm wrong wrong which never happens yes it hasn't been observed ok so let me get your profound deep opinions about artificial intelligence do you think we'll ever build systems that are as intelligent or more intelligent than human beings in the same kind of way that we think humans are intelligent you know the most important is the last remark which you made I strongly believe in their official intelligence I believe that it will be a lot of development in the direction of like a human similarity to human but I've very much doubt about artificial consciousness this kind of stuff from my point of view it's very questionable so I don't know what is consciousness to you consciousness it's it's way more it's a wider stuff it's like a wow it's complex of feelings it's a complex of feelings like intelligence its smartness it's a knowledge it's a disability to operate with knowledge consciousness it's its knowledge but way much together with feelings do you think science will ever be able to understand consciousness so here I believe I believe that sooner or later at least in this direction will be big breakthroughs so do you think do you think could be able to put consciousness inside a Roomba inside a phone inside a camera devices consciousness consciousness I don't know you know like a Jewish answer to most of the questions I mean we don't know yes we don't know I mean I it's very difficult to predict what will happen with science and 300 years it's like to ask 300 years ago in what in 19 in 1700 come on it's way before Napoleon yeah the in every years of last year's of Luke at all whatever the Dalek for teens and you ask them about cell phones what do what do if you ask Li cateura if you ask him a question what he thinks about cell phones he will say this we call a I am a Sun King uh-huh that's it no you're simplifying because perhaps the perhaps perhaps but because it is another words cellphone but if I asked know about artificial intelligence then explained it correctly he would actually have an opinion already they've had opinions about these kinds of things but yeah yeah sort of can man this is a fundamental philosophical question can human beings create artificial versions of themselves with Frankenstein other than me people have been thinking when you bring out a build of statues it's a and and people have been maybe not Jews but people have been confidently providing answers okay what I can tell you my feeling yes artificial person will be created okay so the way it is yeah how close it will be like a this like a synthetic synthetic person will be with respect to reality yeah is it good or bad it's just different great but it is doable so we have this disagreement a lot and you think that so do you think such a system needs to have a body and our disagreement is often about the senses you say to have a full reading experience of consciousness you smell touch so and I say you can do just words words and the image not even just words but yes image is helpful but words even just the award's voice okay you know like don't forget I lived many years in France so for me smell like a Armagnac I mean smell is very much often more important than taste yeah but image can be even less important so just taste and smell so what I'm trying to say that I mean but that wait wait if I give you an option I had to kill all your senses except one which one would you like to stay with I would not you know that's not it's like a good question it's like a question you know if you have a choice to kill your father or mother what do you would do I mean it's not the father well yeah what I'm trying to say that it's my feeling it's more holistic that people they can lose one of feelings it's okay but yeah that's true and yes that's not life but you think it's it's actually it's a bouquet including like you said cautiousness is a bouquet I like it but you think a system should have a sense of smell sense of touch and my feeling is that it's not so difficult to do yes from so this is where we have disagreements and debates and software or says hardware I mean you're much more comfortable with hardware and and taste and smell these are kinds of things that it's it's almost like a sensor it's a chemistry problem yeah but it with me actually I am from harmony I'm not saying this is hardware this software yeah I would say that that's a it's not the bouquet in this case it's it's a harmony I mean yeah no I guess I come from a world it's a very kind of AI world in computer science world where you think that most of the problems in the world can be converted into a 99% software problem and that's that's the dream because it's easier than but but do you know it was a Russian comedian absolutely beautiful shiny etske maybe you remember he might be nervous he used to say in Russian the way it is put it of Russia of streets is hypocritical Tony which is nothing probable what does it mean well how to forget me translate it into English hmm let's now don't even try it's fine Ehsan it's fine but what I'm trying to say that this this is a poet is is it possible to describe with words tastes of oysters if you never ever try them and that's very important moment sometimes this big data their official intelligence they say ok we don't need smell we can describe what has been described as smell it means that they can collect data about like a smell of cheese and put it in like a huge database and based on that to help you to choose what is the best chase without smelling so this in this case I have to recommend to this computer or to this computer scientists to think about the netsuke and this argument about taste of oysters without trying them at least once in their life ok that's why I think that taste is important smell should be also encoded yeah I disagree because I think it is that so I agree that's very important but I believe our mind and artificial minds will be able to fill in the gaps so without being able to smell you you start without ever having tasted or smelled oysters you start imagining smell on taste it won't be connected to reality at all but you construct a world that's consistent so I would say in this case it's not artificial intelligence it's synthetic intelligence and I prefer it official because in the world artificial world art yeah you know what I mean also and synthetic means like yeah you synthesize something yes no there's no it's lacking of the human experience and artificial has that art yes well you you might you might be right because the only intelligent system we have now has smell oh really ah okay very good I like it do you think about mortality your own mortality yes because there is a three elements to that one like I'm a normal person and I think about that Oh especially in relation with parents when you lost you know yes and mom also so you know yes you cannot let something which happened to everybody at some point when you lose your father and mother you understand that now it's you you're next that's into its well that's human the second element what I think about is religion because at least for me but for many people also like going to beliefs of your parents grandparents etc helps helps and you start to understand the older you are the closer you are to this moment the more you just feel it so all of the religion is huge and number three I'm a scientist and a couple of weeks ago we had a long discussion on the conference about immortality at the was of this cosmetic meeting because I mentioned to you that with this LVMH like a Louboutin or whether um and Hennessy that's the important one and then sporty one we have been talking about like a possibility to change direction of Aging and this is one of challenges which actually in the beam of plasma medicine we start trying to do it was like a kind of serious experiments trying to use in plasma tool to determine aging process I can explain you details but it's a longer story but as a result of this experiments unfortunately we show that in a hundred percent of like experiments we did we actually accelerated aging not but maybe we have two other ideas you might be able to from a scientific perspective there is there is so hurt because you know that mortality it just glad or major put it in us this mortality in which way we're stem cells and they just you know providing differentiation which is like a renovation of us like when there is a tiny small kid he changed his no siren on each couple of days so just it's it's always like a renovation of the tissue yes death and birth doesn't birth yeah it is not like I thought like it knows is like growing no it's just as each time I have a new one now when in your age like I wasn't buying it happen less often maybe once and I don't know 5 10 years but for me fortunately are functioning like I will stay with this nose forever now so the only thing we have to do actually is just to and this self themselves are still there we just but their efficiency is for some not very much known reason went down down down down down down so what we have to do we have to actually help this stem cells stimulate them just to become again more active and if we do that and plasma medicine tried then just you know instead of getting older and other will go back younger and younger is it possible yes it's against rule of nature no so this is sword way to think about that but that's a really challenge interesting that it was discussion on this subject with leave it on if science does arrive at that breaker if you could live forever would you would you like to live forever I think yes I would try why not you know let's well I'll give you a reason not is it makes a life you know the fact that stuff ends gives it some deep meaning you know Jewish people basically they are deeply deeply deeply in love with life you know they say Lehigh to life so Jewish people they actually believe that God gave us life to enjoy what will happen we'll have another life or not or maybe it will be like again we'll be young is it possible the Jewish answer is absolutely clear we don't know so but enjoying life it's the law absolute law so if you have possibility to leave you have to go on with life as a Jewish answer and I like it are you afraid of death yes how you remember when you asked me how long did you take for me to fall in love with with your mother 1 2 3 yeah yeah yeah you answered that pretty quickly so what do you think is the meaning of life that's a difficult question you you never like this the silly questions go back to your eighth grade self and be romantic for a second yeah what's the meaning of life yeah meaning of our existence here on this little planet well I remember that I kept asking myself this question when I was in eighth grade it was one of the crucial question for me Oh at that time by the exactly the same time when I roll this romantic stuff and at that time I remember my answer I kept saying day by day which means the meaning of life is just to enjoy enjoy today's life and go to tomorrow survive the day enjoy the day and use your French existentialists you're a researcher and yes sir it's but you know at that time I didn't have any knowledge about exists sure lists whatever Sartor yeah specialist tartar but I was actually sure about that if you ask me now I would say I was right I I thought I thought that was a natural extension of the axiom which is I'm always right yes yes yes but you know in each joke it's a 50% of joke if you present not but after reading it was a book limo words right what's in English you say soccer sorry limo words slower I think in this book he just when I read that it's basically absolutely bad book fleet yes archers I prefer Camus and the other French guy yeah I just decide that I am I was not alone with this kind of ideas yeah there's other French guys what do you hope Greg and I accomplish in life and next I'll ask you for advice and after that we'll drink some vodka recalculating I know I'm not calculating I'm just trying to recall a very nice poetry you know between I I love Russian poetry and it's interesting that my favorite Russian poet it's actually the woman's it's a mini Nazi timer and she wrote like a short poetry just L saying that she said nationalist any rationalist Paul navona assumes a brief yet aside nobility post yes way mr. Spacely well and it is in Russian but I am I think that it's kind of deep and kind of smart I wish I wish you to be happy and I know that if I push you in some direction Earl Greg nothing happened I mean I okay I will be always recommending they always push on you and and don't forget I am always pushing anyway but you know that and I have to do that because I am a father so I and I'm always pushing in conservative direction because because I am a father and I very much wish you to have your son my grandson or granddaughter yeah I almost guarantee you that will do the same he will not recommend your daughter to take a risk and to go to Hollywood try to be an actress she's supposed to do it without without your permission what and as and that's that's that's beautiful who make our own way and there you always have given me a brilliant advice that I almost never follow and usually disagree with so but that's the way it should be yeah that's the way of life well so what speaking of which what advice do you have for me for the next 10 20 years in life sort of in any direction see I am hesitating I'm thinking about I mean I have two ideas and they're kind of very much wasn't yeah so from one hand my approach was the same as Sarah so just from one hand I like the idea just to live your life and to enjoy and to be prepared for tomorrow which everything will restart again it's from one hand from another hand I remember myself in elementary school he remember beginning of our discussion about this stupid guys these idiots with stones and I just had an idea just to build a rocket to put there so I wanted to do and I did it so this is another idea when you all just put your heart into something for a longer time not for one day but you have to find your own way just and my feeling is it to you personally found it with artificial intelligence and that's why my feeling is that in your specific case my advice will be just not to let them this idiots with stones to succeed you have to deliver and that's what I'd like and that's what I made me dope with the mercury in the rocket but build the rocket it's your choice yeah because that's a rocket which you're building but what is important that you'll do well I think this is a good time to uh to maybe toast our family oh they do some we thought we'll do we'll probably drink more vodka but we decided to be responsible adults and just save the vodka to the end it's always a question how much vodka we have to drink in Russian tradition usually we calculate for adults like a one bottle per one bottle per a person take a look at is made in Soviet Union and it's 1986 this is what girl of my father because in 1986 in a year of Chernobyl he gave this bottle a friend of mine because this friend of mine he went to America and he just missed my friend he just saved this basket for us to be able to just whatever to think about no seasoning of my friend oh he's Sasha but we call him Shura Shura but that's the same thing as your best friend your lifelong friend yes it's like you're mad mad mad matter any shoutout and first you can chose the family but let me just toast to the best dad I've ever had the best that I could ever ask for our love you did yeah I love you let's go listening to this conversation with my dad and thank you to our sponsors the Jordan Harbinger show a magic spoon cereal go check out Jordans show on Apple podcast Spotify and tell them I sent you listen to the Kobe Bryant or Neil deGrasse Tyson episodes first or just binge listen to a bunch of them like I did and buy all of the magic spoon cereal click magic spoon comm slash flex in the description and use code Lex at checkout if you enjoy this podcast subscribe on youtube review it with five stars on a podcast supporter on patreon or simply connect with me on Twitter and lex friedman and now let me leave you with a request if they're close people in your life we've never sat down to really talk with and they're still here with us talk to them heart-to-heart podcasts are not they won't always be here with us life is short and most of it is a distraction from what really matters family friendship and love thank you for listening and hope to see you next time you

Channel: Lex Fridman

Views: 1,880,488

Rating: 4.8777661 out of 5

Keywords: alexander fridman, plasma, artificial intelligence, agi, ai, ai podcast, artificial intelligence podcast, lex fridman, lex podcast, lex mit, lex ai, lex jre, mit ai

Id: 6JipQNWuYnA

Length: 218min 33sec (13113 seconds)

Published: Wed Jun 03 2020

Reddit Comments

[u/greyleef]

Wow. I was not expecting such a fascinating conversation, I had tears welling up in my eyes quite a few times! Damn your questions! I wished I had asked my dad similar questions but he died years ago.. good for both of you to have had this conversation, and thanks for sharing it with me.

[u/[deleted]]

I don't have much to say other than it's a superb episode

[u/[deleted]]

amazing

[u/ProtectorIQ]

Perfect.

Shoot your shot, u/lexfridman