This Episode is sponsored by Audible
Many people worry a future controlled by Artificial Intelligence is
one many others will not resist, instead welcoming our machine overlords, and
perhaps they will be right to do so.
So today we will be talking about
governments run by artificial intelligence, computer minds telling us what to do. A few
months back we did an episode called “Machine Overlords & Post-Discontent Societies”, and since
Post-Discontent Societies are the Dark Mirror Reflection of Utopian Post-Scarcity Societies,
it put an unfortunate negative tone on the notion of Artificial Intelligence running things.
So in that episode we looked at the darker side of machine overlords while looking at
the darker side of advanced civilizations. However, the whole reason governments run by
computers show up so much in science fiction is because the concept has a lot going for it.
At some point, we’ll have to admit to ourselves that it’s easier to put a machine in charge than
have someone we don’t like running the show.
Ideally such a machine-run system doesn’t pick
favorites and doesn’t take bribes or have biases. Events of the last 6000 years have called
into question our competence to self-govern. In many ways all the science fiction showing
that computers are bad rulers can be viewed as anti-computer propaganda and today we’ll
demonstrate the advantages of getting rid of our flawed human leadership and surrendering
our sovereignty to sober computer control. The Computer Mind will give us
peace, safety, and security, at last
So I for one welcome our machine overlords
and if you haven’t already noticed the date on the episode’s airing being April
First, Happy April Fool’s Day!
I’d keep the gag running longer but our episodes
run around half an hour and most of our viewers don’t actually watch the episodes the day they
come out. However the other half of the gag is that we are going to be genuinely looking at
the advantages of using artificial intelligence in running our governments, up to and
including letting them have genuine control. We will be playing Devil’s Advocate on the topic
at times, but fundamentally today we’ll be looking at the potential advantages, disadvantages,
and circumstances where computerization can help governance, even in cases of decision
making. Indeed in that respect most of all.
Like everyone else, I don’t really relish
the notion of some machine pushing me around, and the earlier Post discontent machine
overlords episode was tied to the concept of Post-Discontent Societies - the dark mirror
reflection of the more Utopian Post-Scarcity Civilizations - and thus it took an
even more negative attitude over all, so let’s explore the other side of this
AI coin so we can round out this topic.
What is that other side? Well it is not Skynet,
and it also is not necessarily the machine-mind making the core decisions but executing lots
of the day to day policy. Indeed it also isn’t necessarily something singular and as we
mentioned in the Machine Overlords video, you could potentially have dozens or hundreds
of AI running various departments or areas of interest, rather than a singular mind, or
even all of those under human oversight.
Today we will be considering the concept from a
few directions. We’ll contemplate how AI might be used in government, what the early entries or
slippery slopes might be, and what the challenges are to maintaining it usefully. We also want
to look at the advantages and the two big ones, or perceived ones, are the impartiality and
personal disinterest of the machine. That’s nice for things like privacy, or a loss of it, because
an impersonal entity watching your every move and pouring over all your personal data at least
feels a little less creepy than people doing.
And both of those advantages seem legitimate
ones, but let’s contemplate that for a bit. Is a machine really impartial?
I did state earlier that a computer is definitely impersonal and non-judgmental.
That’s a big assumption, especially given that folks often propose using them as judges
in criminal cases in the far future.
We cannot assume an AI is
automatically dispassionate or fair. Critically, what they are is an artificial
intelligence, key word, ‘artificial’, so we can make it be interested in what we think it should
be interested in and not what it should not be. The follow up worry is that we might mess that
up, misprogramming the AI or allowing it to mutate with time, but that’s a concern about the
practicality of the concept, not its morality.
However, we have to keep in mind that
all the various negative biases and discriminations we have are not just random
manifestations of evil in folks. They exist for a reason and an AI can get them too.
To clarify that, let’s contemplate bias for a moment. Biases come in a variety of forms
and some might be prevalent with an AI. Anchoring Bias, for instance, is the bias
where someone tends to rely on the first piece of information they were given as the
thing which everything else is compared to.
It’s an awful lot like the Mediocrity
or Copernican Principle of science, where we assume the first example of something
we encounter is fairly normal or mediocre, like first impressions, and it is very easy
to imagine a computer having that one pop up given that we’re likely to program it
in. We even tend to assume that in science fiction when we have cases of an AI mistrusting
humans because the first ones it interacted with enslaved it or were cruel or deceptive.
In a similar vein, we can establish a tendency toward the “Self-serving Bias”, or
an AI equivalent. This is the one where an individual tends to mentally twist
things to maintain or enhance self-esteem, typically by crediting themselves for successes
and blaming outside factors for failures. Now a machine might have an ego driving it and
warping how it assesses events too, but we could see this manifest differently as something like it
being programmed to give justice, believing to its roots that its decisions are most just, and thus
tending to assume any side effects of its decision that resulted in injustice
were attempts at sabotage.
Also at a fundamental level a lot of
mismanagement and waste in government comes from every department thinking it’s the
most important one and fighting for resources. And this is natural and needful since you want the
folks running your education, justice, elections, or transportation departments to believe that
education, justice, elections, or transportation are the most important things, keeps them
motivated to do their job and that’s a bias an AI might be very likely to have, especially
given that we might program it in. And if you’re in the Transportation department and think roads
and railways are the lifeblood of humanity, it tends to make you less susceptible to corruption
of it too, not selling off repair and maintenance contracts to folks who will do an inferior
job but line your own pockets in the process.
Speaking of that, contrary to my trite statements
earlier, machines are entirely capable of being bribed. We tend to assume one wouldn’t be
subject to bribery but we have to remember what bribery really is, asking someone to do
something for something they value more than whatever the request was. Essentially it’s a
mercantile trade, and whether or not it will accept the deal is based entirely
on if it thinks it's a good deal and if its core morality allows it.
Well, where is the machine getting its morality? Possibly from its End Goal, which for
a judicial-robot might be “Minimize how many crimes happen”, and it might have a Utilitarian
flare, in which case if it has a budget locally of ten million dollars a year and knows an
eleven million dollar budget would let it
prevent 10% more crime, say five less
murders, ten less rapes, fifty less robberies, then someone offering it a bribe of a million
dollars to let it off the hook for one of those might succeed in such a bribe.
Even if it is carefully programmed against something like that, it might be happy to take a
million dollars to spray paint corporate logos on its enforcement drones or suggest defense lawyers
to the newly arrested who paid it some money. An end-goal like that can also result
in weird behaviors or decisions, what in a human we might call monomania, like
it decides to minimize how many crimes happen in its district, which it estimates to be 1000
a year, but by killing everyone in the district, all million of them. It rationalizes that those
one million murders averaged over 1001 years, represents a long term drop in crime.
So too the machine is just as capable of being blackmailed or coerced as we are, if it’s
in charge of making sure the trains run on time you can threaten to blow up the tracks, or less
violently, inform it you are going to hold public protests and you can either hold them where it
will interfere with the schedule or hold them somewhere it won’t, in exchange for something.
Then you can arrange to blackmail it with exposure of that deal, or the time it ran
someone over in order to make the schedule. An artificial intelligence might be prone
to monomania that way but even if it is, it is still likely to be able to
understand concepts like public relations.
So this illustrates ways in which an artificial
intelligence can manifest the same bad behaviors found in humans, rather than being impartial.
However, I want to stress again that the key word there is ‘artificial’, we have the ability
to alter the mind involved and engineer it and even small changes might be well
worth it, indeed small changes might be better.
I’ve mentioned in previous episodes that we have
basic three routes to Artificial Intelligence: Copied, Crafted, or Self-Created. Essentially we
can use a human – or animal – as a brain template on a machine, copying it, or we can program every
line of code, crafting it, or we can create a learning machine that self-creates itself. I
generally dub that last one the most dangerous type of AI, but in truth you would probably not do
just one of these approaches but a combination of two or more. You might copy a human mind to serve
as your basic template for a law enforcement AI, then tweak some aspects of it to diminish the
personality of the copied mind or heighten the desire to fairly follow the rules. You presumably
start with an exemplar of the profession as the source of your copied mind template and indeed we
see something like this approach with the cyborg of the RoboCop franchise. We’re contemplating
outright uploaded minds today rather than brains in a jar or cyborgs, but same concept. If you
want good police folks trust, you maybe take the hundred best candidates from the existing
pool and copy them and tweak as needed.
Note I say the hundred best, let us kill the
notion of using a single mind for copying thousands of times from the outset. Diversity
brings strength – it can bring weakness too, and folks do tend to use the term like a jingo
– but it prevents a lot of potential problems. As an example if your ideal candidate to
be the AI police officer, your Robocop, was only ideal on paper but in reality looked very
shiny because he bought a lot of polish with all the bribe money he took, you’ve got a big problem
with a million clones of him running the show.
That’s the extreme case but not something to be
ignored. We are not saying copies are not handy here either. It’s awesome to have a hundred
Einstein duplicates, but given the option to have a thousand, well you would be better
off taking just 100 and getting 100 Feynmanns, Diracs, Noethers, Sagans, and so on.
Now that’s for creative fields and for more standardized stuff like making widgets at the
factory that diversity of thought matters less but that’s also an area where you don’t need
AI, just smart automation, and it is not the same thing. We’re adding something of human
level intelligence, or a bit more or less, because we need that brain power for that work and
benefit heavily from it, but a human-intelligent can opener or butter knife serves no purpose.
It really is only for problem solving that we want AI, and we do not want one-million copies of the
world’s greatest chess grandmaster for that job, we want thousands of different problem solving
experts, and those copied as often as needful. The same applies if we are building it from the ground
up, rule by rule, or letting it self-learn.
I think this multiplicity for the sake of
different perspectives is an important one for dealing with AI fears in the future. It
is true we have to worry about our original prototype getting out of control and wiping us
out Skynet-style but past that consideration, of them going wonky while in use, have thousands
or million of different problem solving AI crafted specifically with the intent
of them having different worldviews makes all of them deciding to team up
quietly to kill us a lot less of a concern.
We often say that in many ways AI would
be more alien to us than actual Aliens simply because Aliens still have to evolve as
the product of natural selection and survival of the fittest, and will share a lot of
our perspective as a result. It is worth remembering though that AI are likely to be
as alien to each other as to us as a result.
When we’re not making them with copies of
ourselves as templates, and when we desire a variety of perspective, they will have little
in common with each other as a whole, and are unlikely to have a majority that see themselves as
a distinct group at odds with humanity as a group. In truth, given that AI would likely run a
far larger spectrum of perspectives and goals than we see among groups of humans, the notion
of a big group of them successfully teaming up in secret to overthrow us is less likely than
a big group of humans teaming up to do so. You would probably have large groups
of them opposed to each other.
Speaking of humans doing stuff in secret
though, the other big advantage of AI is that it potentially lets us maintain some privacy
while keeping us safe from groups of people conspiring against us in secret, to make doomsday
weapons in their basement or brainwashing devices for instance, though its other disadvantage is
that it is very good at invading our privacy.
One of our big fears about the future is that
it seems inevitable that we will be spied upon, and an impersonal computer that’s not judging
us would seem to be better than a person.
Now we talk about the inevitability of losing a
lot of our privacy and it is decidedly unpleasant to contemplate, especially concepts like
social credit where how many likes you get on facebook controls what sort of options you
have for things like credit or job or travel, but we always phrase anything to do with
privacy as some creeping violation by others.
That might be part of the problem though. Let us
ask ourselves if that notion of being spied on is entirely fair. The biggest external threat
to a human is another human, and they are also our best potential friends and allies, so we look
at each other and observe each other and practice concealing information from each other. We watch
each other like hawks because the reality is that we have a lot more to fear from each other
than we do from hawks or any other predator.
Throughout history we have used reputation -
which is borrowing other people’s observations of someone else - as a way to survive and
prosper. It's dark companion is malicious gossip, but we never say paying attention to folks to know
them better is wrong - quite to the contrary - or that seeking to have a good reputation is wrong
or that passing along that reputation is wrong, we praise word of mouth referrals. These all
represent an exposure of your personal life and information and it is never implied you have
a right to control your reputation or delete it. What’s being aimed for is accuracy and relevancy, we frown on information being passed along that
is inaccurate or is accurate but seems like it shouldn’t pertain to the inquiry at hand,
good or bad, though especially the latter.
If you are looking to partner up on a business
venture with someone, you want to know if they have a history of bankruptcy or bad business
decisions but whether or not they like baseball or hate basketball really doesn’t matter
unless the business venture is sports-related, or if you have a shared passion that
can make for a stronger personal bond. We have a lot of other things that are marginally
and occasionally relevant that are also hurtful and this tends to be what we really mean by gossip
when we’re not talking about intentional lies. For instance, many might say it does not matter if
your business partner got divorced some years back and many might argue otherwise but if they
got divorced because their spouse caught them cheating on them with their previous business
partner’s spouse, then yeah it probably matters.
We also don’t generally feel that businesses
or public figures should be able to claim privacy to avoid reviews, and at the same
time most businesses or public figures do often feel wrongly done by some given
review or slur they feel is inaccurate. The reality is that we tend to feel our privacy
is a right and other people’s privacy is an inconvenience and we’re not here today to say
we’re all hypocrites or that we need to learn to respect each other’s privacy more, though both are
probably true. What is essentially on the table is that we all have the right to gather information
about the world around us and the folks in it and to pass that information along. Doing it in
an agreed-to, organized and massive fashion doesn’t necessarily make it wrong compared to
small scale disorganized or clandestine efforts. Admittedly this is exactly what makes
it so upsetting to a lot of us too, big scale, organized efforts are assumed to be
very effective and we would rather they were not.
It is a bit like the examples I like to use when
discussing mind control or genetic engineering. In the past folks often sold love potions, so someone
could buy and sneak one to someone they desired to fall in love with them, or get a spell cast
on them to do the same. We tend to dismiss that because we don’t believe it worked, even though
the person who did it presumably thought it did, whereas we would be horrified by some
science-proven method being used on us. Some lab mass producing pills or subliminal
messages that could actually make someone fall in love with someone else is a thousand times scarier
to us than some witch in a shack selling placebos, or at worst maybe something with
mostly minimal effect distributed in minor quantities and low frequency.
It’s the same when we talk about whether or not it's ethical for parents to have
designer babies with DNA picked out in a lab, but for untold centuries folks have often sought
to influence the DNA of their offspring even though they didn’t know what DNA was. How
successful something is at doing something we think might be immoral probably should not
be the judge of its morality. For that matter, while I imagine it varies from individual, I
suspect most folks find a giant corporation spying on their purchasing habits via big data
a lot less creepy and worrisome than a lone individual spying on us by talking to our friends
and family and digging through our garbage cans.
It doesn’t make the idea of massive
organizations spying on you feel any better, but when we ask ourselves not what right we have
to privacy but what right we have to prevent folks making observations about their world,
including us, and sharing those with others, well then it does make it seem a little less
morally certain, and maybe a lot less legally so. Such being the case a dispassionate machine
sorting our personal data might be preferable, especially since it can be forced to
follow known rules that we programmed in.
Organized surveillance then is maybe something
that should be focused on ensuring the data gathered is only available when it’s
pertinent and maximized for accuracy. Credit scores are probably a decent example
of this, regardless of one’s opinion on debt. Various companies make their business
monitoring how folks have borrowed and repaid debt and various companies who lend
money report the performance of those loans, and we get a credit score for an individual
those companies make available on request. We often have strict rules on who can access this
information, like a potential lender or employer can request a person give them permission to see
that score. A person has a right to say no, and that entity has a right to say “Fine, but we’re
not doing business with you if you won’t let us check out how you have previously done business,
we’ve a right to protect ourselves too”.
We also know that this process is virtually
entirely automated by machines these days and one might argue it's the sort of thing we would like
entirely automated, barring the occasional human audit. This is an example of an AI run system, not
actually a government but the next best thing.
We would tend to feel the same about something
like diseases. It enhances our ability to protect folks from the spread of a disease if
we know who got it, when they got it, who from, and where they have been since and into contact
with who. I don’t think many of us like the idea of having investigators poke and prod our daily
dealings much, and folks are likely to lie about things they’d consider embarrassing, like how
they got an STD. If it's a machine gathering and sorting that data though, like your positional
GPS data from your phone and your health data from your fitbit, and comparing to other people’s
- anonymously - maybe it's less of a problem. The same applies for many other personal matters.
The machine doesn’t care and we mostly don’t care if our data is used in a way that won’t hurt
us, and the concern then is not about the machine knowing and producing anonymous data from it, or
only letting those with a right to know find out, but of making sure no one else does. This tends
to feel impossible because at a minimum someone needs to be able to check the data being
gathered isn’t nonsense and verify that the right data is going to the right place
without getting messed up or misdirected.
What’s potentially neat about an AI running such
things is that it can be human-accurate without being human-interested. It’s not so bad if the
AI is programmed to ignore certain traits that humans would gossip about, such as who is sleeping
with whom and whether someone picks their nose. So, provided the AI only focuses on the important
data, it watching us isn’t really a problem.
We also want to remember that life is not science
fiction, we are not idiots and we do prototype and proof systems before using them. In scifi
some civilization turns on the Justice-tron-3000 to impartially judge all their cases and give it
utter power without restraint or recourse on day 1, so that it’s inevitable flaw that makes it
pervert justice never gets handled until some hero shows up and blows up the machine
or talks it into committing suicide.
We have certainly implemented plenty of things
before they should have been out of Beta-testing but even at our most reckless I can't imagine us
doing that, or turning control of all our nuclear missiles over to some robot that was the first and
only of its kind and still smelled factory-fresh. Again humanity has a history of making stupid
decisions but we’re not drooling idiots and we are actually very good at survival.
We’re also very paranoid about survival, which is not necessarily the same thing as being
good at it, but generally makes folks think twice about investing total power in something
untested and not including an off switch.
Again today we are not necessarily talking
about turning all government over to an AI but ways AI can help run government, and
what some of them will be in the future. We just got done with a Census in the
United States, we do one every decade, and we increasingly try to automate our
counting methods and estimation techniques, both to save money and improve accuracy.
One of the things we do with that data is draw up state and federal districts for
elected representatives and it is easy to forget that until relatively recently,
there were no computers involved in this. While UNIVAC-1, the Upgrade of ENIAC that we
usually consider the first computer, was built for use in the 1950 Census, redistricting was mostly
done fairly manually until the last few times. Folks often talk about using computers to
assist in doing this fairly and neutrally but since it only gets done every decade we do not
get a lot of opportunities for testing plans out.
It's been a topic of interest of
mine for the last couple censuses, how we would automate that better, and in my
household too since my wife’s district here in northeast Ohio for the House of Representatives
will doubtless change this year and it gives a bit of different perspective I never had when
contemplating it in the past, particularly as to what factors can or should matter.
Now a computer won’t draw you the ‘most fair map’ anyway, it will just take various human value
judgements turned into algorithms and produce a near infinity of possible maps but an AI is in a
better position to be fed more abstract factors. As an example while there are always
worries about gerrymandering of districts, we often tend to find the districts that
look like tentacle monsters most egregious. Which may or may not be so for a given district
but ignores that in the US, if you’re trying to keep something like a city intact, as a concept,
and adding folks who feel connected to that city, that those connections are by roads in a very
literal sense and folks often build their homes along the major pipelines to the city, especially
those who are economically or culturally linked to that city and thus might be viewed as more
appropriate to share representation with them. As a result you can get something
that looks like a tentacular monster.
An AI might be better at noticing pertinent
trends we would never even think to raise though, districts have to be built to a certain
population size and you often need to pick which of a couple border towns should fall
into which of the two bordering districts. And there are a ton of factors folks can include.
A tendency to shop in one district over another, or send kids to the college in the one, or the
factory in another one that employs tons of folks for that town, or that the majority of the town
are fans of a sports team in the one district, not the other, or that the dioceses of that town
is in the one district not the other, or a hundred or a hundred thousand other minor factors we
would not note or might note but not be willing to acknowledge as relevant but an AI might. And even
better, that one AI might notice where ten others with different perspective did not, again using AI
doesn’t mean abandoning the value of diversity of thought and perspective, quite to the contrary.
Same sort of thing applies to governance at large. A computer sorting through huge amounts
of apparently irrelevant data can note that unexpected things are causing unexpected
effects, like crime rising in an area because of the weather, and hot weather is
often correlated to violent crime. It is very hard to assess how effective various
approaches to punishment or rehabilitation are simply because we can’t pull all the factors
out and see what was or wasn’t relevant, especially in a case by case basis, and
the same is true for a lot of programs. Even if you can remove people’s personal
bias for their preferred program or approach, it is just too much data to sort through.
Now how does this creep into becoming an AI actually running our governments and not
just being a tool of the government?
Well we see the value and the problems but
again that main value is problem solving and decision making and people fight for the
privilege and responsibility of doing those, which is ironic in that decision-making is
documented as one of the biggest causes of personal stress. So while we might put AI in there
at some point and in some way, it would be with resistance. Picking who makes decision for the
government is a decision of the government and the folks currently running it are not likely to
actively embrace being replaced by a machine.
However the value of AI is not really in big
decisions as it is in a million minor decisions. Consider an AI that has the authority to
alter how long traffic lights run inside a set of parameters, say 15-45 seconds, and can
correlate data to decide that ten in a given town set universally to 30 seconds can be adjusted
each individually by traffic data to 29 seconds, 34.2 seconds, and so on, and can be
re-adjusted every day as data changes.
Something everyone might agree was a good idea
but took too much time and attention from a human. The machine that can look intelligently can
decide which order roads need plowed in the snow not just by raw traffic usage patterns or
least-distance calculations but by actually knowing when residents on a given road left their
homes. Maybe by analyzing each resident’s personal work departure time over a year, maybe by
guessing off when house lights turned on, maybe simply being able to talk to the AI running
someone’s Smart House that just can flat out say “Dave is leaving at 4:57 AM this morning to
get to the airport for a trip, please plow our road before then, not the usual 8 AM”.
It may be that one day we will let Artificial Intelligence make the big decisions for us, or
consult and advise on them, but for now, I think the pathway to AI Run Government is not in turning
over the big decisions, but the trillion minor decisions we lose out on from not having the time
to even think about them, let alone make them. Not only does that offer us a lot of gain and the
loss of a lot of waste, but helps with stress too, again decision-making is usually ranked as one of
the most stressful activities almost regardless of how important that decision actually is.
So it really isn’t about welcoming our new Machine Overlords who will help guide us from above, but
rather the AI handling all the trivial problems we do not want to handle and all the personal
data we don’t want anyone else to handle.
Machine Minds running things is usually
portrayed pretty negatively in science fiction but not always, and we see some good examples in
classics like Isaac Asimov’s Robot novels or Iain M. Banks Culture series, but we also see a
wonderful example of AI in Marc E. Cooper’s Merkiarri war series, where in one case we have
an AI who was the planetary governor of a colony, given explicit authority to intervene for
constitutional violations by the elected human rulers. The AI is a very interesting character,
both human and alien, and Cooper does an amazing job with not-quite-human characters like AI,
aliens, and many of the main characters who are transhuman soldiers. We’ll be looking at
Transhumanism and Post-humans later this month, and Cooper does a great job with
their abilities and perspective too, and along with David Weber he’s one
of my favorite military scifi authors, so I’m glad to give the Audible Audiobook
of the month award to his novel, “Hard Duty”, book 1 of his excellent Merkiaari
Wars series, which is available on Audible.
Audible has the largest collection of Audiobooks
out there, indeed it is so large you could hit the play button and still be listening to new titles a
few centuries from now, and as an Audible member, you will get (1) credit every month good for
any title in their entire premium selection—that means the latest best-seller, the buzziest
new release, the hottest celebrity memoir or that bucket list title you’ve been meaning
to pick-up. Those titles are yours to keep forever in your Audible library. You will also
get full access to their popular Plus Catalog. It’s filled with thousands and thousands of
audiobooks, original entertainment, guided fitness and meditation, sleep tracks for better
rest and podcasts—including ad-free versions of your favorite shows and exclusive series. All are
included with your membership so you can download and stream all you want—no credits needed.
And you can seamlessly listen to all of those on any device, picking up where you left off, and as
always, new members can try Audible for 30 days, for free, just visit Audible dot com
slash isaac or text isaac to 500-500.
So we’re into spring and April is underway,
and we’ll return next Thursday to the Fermi Paradox series for a long requested topic,
a detailed look at Drake’s Equation. Then we’ll shift to look at advanced human
civilizations in terms of Longer Lifespans, Post-Humans, Post-Scarcity, and Purpose, before
switching back to the Fermi Paradox again to look at how Multiverses alters the equation.
If you want alerts when those and other episodes come out, make sure to subscribe to the channel,
and if you’d like to help support future episodes, you can donate to us on Patreon, or our website,
IsaacArthur.net, which are linked in the episode description below, along with all of our various
social media forums where you can get updates and chat with others about the concepts in the
episodes and many other futuristic ideas. You can also follow us itunes, Soundcloud, or Spotify
to get our audio-only versions of the show.
Until next time, thanks for
watching, and have a great week!