Advice from Grown Unschoolers, Episode 207

[Music] hi everyone I'm really excited to share this compilation episode with you in most of my conversations with groanin schoolers I asked them what advice they'd like to share with newer unschooling parents who are starting out on their journey in this episode I've woven together answers from 11 episodes and 12 grown on schoolers it's so interesting to hear the things that they feel were valuable for them as they grew up unschooling I think you'll find their answers fascinating and great fodder for you as you contemplate your family's unschooling journey so to get us started indeed tamari was the very first grown on schooler I interviewed back in episode 12 she went to kindergarten for a few months but soon she was home there relaxed a home schooling style naturally transitioned to unschooling over the years so here's what she shared for parents starting out on their unschooling journey as someone who's grown up on schooling is there a piece of advice you could share with unschooling parents who are just starting out on this journey because I'd probably want to go back to what we were talking about earlier about how you know learning is in the fund to maybe stop stop being so attached to looking for learning and to just focus on paying attention to what's actually happening to the joy to the the exploration to the struggle to whatever it is just pay attention to what's happening instead of trying to assign learning to things or create sort of artificial learning moments to just focus on on you know on yourself and your kids and your lives and just try in the share a rich life together and that's where the the learning really happens that's beautiful yeah that's easy it's hard though isn't it you know when you first start because because you're still so worried about you know childhood is so inextricably linked to learning in society's mind right so that's a that's a huge piece for them to give up I think even even years later like it there can be moments of doubt and moments of is this right in moments where you kind of want to grab on to the things that look traditionally educational and productive and I think that's that's fine that you never completely stop hearing but just to be moving in that direction of letting go of these sort of expectations and looking and looking at your kids right very much so or yourself it works just as well when it comes to looking at yourself yeah as long as you cleared that luggage away and you aren't judging yourself giving yourself the same look at what you're actually what's actually happening instead of having these unfair expectations of yourself or of your children oh yeah that's a great point great point thank you very much that's such a great reminder to release expectations about what you think should be happening and pay attention to what is actually happening when you're fully in the moment with your kids that's where the unschooling thrives where fun and learning flows now let's hear from Roya dado Roya is the oldest of three siblings and left school at age 10 when her mom suggested she not go back to school for fifth grade here's her advice for newer unschooling parents as a groanin schooler what piece of advice would you like to share with unschooling parents who are just starting out on this journey I would say for unschooling parents who are just starting out just to relax just completely relax and if you need to give yourself a time limit of how long to relax give it six months relax for six months just let go of anything you think is important it's not you know and I'm talking about brushing your teeth eating the nutritious balanced you know diet about going to sleep at certain times any anything just relax nothing irreparable will happen in six months just relax and then the next piece of that is don't let anything nothing is as important as the relationship that you have with your kids nothing no piece of information no degree earned no job nothing is as important as your relationship with your kid so when you are struggling with something or trying to make a decision about something or decide how to react to something I would be thinking which option connects me more to them which option you know improves our relationship as opposed to which option gets them in bed or which option gets them to brush their teeth there you know think about the relationship first as what I would say I love that piece about relaxing because you know what when you've made this momentous decision either to not send your kids to school or you know to bring them home and it just seems so big it seems like you need to to do something to do something you know that so much of their life hinges on this one decision but truly to be able to relax and just let life flow for as you said at least six months six months to a year that is is so important because all of a sudden you learned so much more about your child especially when as you said if you if you need something to guide you with the relationship that's the perfect place right just as you have ideas which one is gonna help the relationship versus you know push us further apart that's that's really cool cuz that's one of the hardest things is to realize okay we made this huge decision now we can just like relax and have fun yeah it's hard it's quite a dichotomy to walk that seriousness celebrity of it and I know my mom talks about she might have said this on your podcast I honestly didn't listen to them it's hard to listen sometimes the stories about me but um she she tells the conference's that her guidance when she's first started was she was trying all this to ah rise up that you know that that light of like Oh interesting or oh I like that or whatever that thing is that gets that little spark in your eyes she said that was what she was going for so whatever if she offered something and we were about it then she would drop it and she'd try to find the things that made us interested and that was kind of her pet project when she was first starting out as an unschooling mom I like that I like that a lot because I think it gives you know it's relaxed and the other side to that is have fun you know if you need something then think of this as a vacation and do all the things that you would you know do just to have fun when I when I talk to parents and I say really like when your kid is 80 what do you want for them in their life it's happiness you know it's it's it's not for them to know every single math equation in the world it's not for them to have memorized history facts or even to be very much exposed to these things the reason they want them to get those things is because they think that will lead to success and that will lead to happiness but when you go all the way to the end of that road it's happiness and so why do you have to wait so you know we'll be thinking creatively about other paths to that and then in therapy you know we talk about why you think math problems is you know the thing but um but it's it's all it goes back to you know you can't you can't force happiness happiness doesn't happen when you're desperate or when you're scared so relax I know well and that's the other piece you know the best learning to see your kids you know when you take them out of schools like oh my gosh if they're not doing you know workbooks or worksheets or whatever that's the point is having fun right when they're having fun their eyes light up and they're learning like crazy there's so much science that backs you know it's really what it is is you want your kid to learn things all the science the world backs that we learn things when we're having fun you know if you just want to look at it from that perspective then do that I love how ROI is answer echoes what it see shared completely relaxing is about releasing expectations and seeing what happens when everyone is free to make choices and have fun find the things that make their eyes light up now let's hear from Brenna McBroom Brenna went to public school for first grade and then they moved to traditional homeschooling when she was 12 they went to their first unschooling conference felt like they'd found their people and made the leap here's what she shared as a grown schooler what piece of advice would you like to share with unschooling parents who are just starting out on this journey yeah sure thing well so I feel like I'm not a parent at this point so I you know don't have first-hand experience or perspective on that but as a grown on schooler I think the way that I mostly interact with kids these days is they come into my booth what I'm selling stuff at a craft show and most of these kids aren't on schools and something that I see a lot is parents just being very very controlling of their kids like put that down don't touch this you know back away or you know things not even related to like what's going on in the booth just just a lot of pretty controlling behavior in and I will just say that I have never had a child break something in my booth but I have had several adults come in and they're usually very very careful because they're you know their parents are often are often kind of complaining at them about it and so I think the the piece of advice that I have is that if you can work on relaxing your need to control things even a little bit it helps to move you in the right direction of unschooling and it helps to improve the relationship that you have with your child because I think that that's the big difference I see is that sometimes parents come in and you know I see this good relationship between them and their children and and I see them really working with their children rather than trying to control them yeah that is such a fascinating point because you know as you're saying you don't have you haven't had kids break things I imagine parents jump in with control because they don't think their kids know but kids are really can definitely be attuned to what's going on around them and when we jump in and control we kind of we take that power away from them don't we because if if they they would be going in and and being careful on their own but we snatch that from them when we when we tell them that they have to do this and they have to do that yeah absolutely 99% of the kids who come in already are they're already being careful but then they're getting this negative feedback from their parents as though they're misbehaving or doing something wrong and sometimes kids who are quite old kids who are you know 11 or 12 or 13 who certainly you know already have the self-control and you know maturity to to be able to come in and interact with me as an adult kind of yeah when you look at it from their perspective being told that when they're already doing that it's like what don't they they don't imagine it they don't feel seen because it's like well can't you tell I'm already doing yeah that's that's really cool because that is a great first step and one of the things that when parents are coming to unschooling to be able to open up and start to release some of that control and start to see their kids for what they're actually doing that's that's a huge piece of D schooling so that's very very cool oh I love that insight from Brenna starting to release some of that need to control and at the same time paying attention to what your kids are actually doing is a big part of D schooling do you see a beautiful pattern weaving through it Z's roya's and Brenna's answers they are encouraging us to shift our lens away from expectations and fears to what's actually happening in the moment the next clip is from episode 181 with Jack and Sean O'Brien they grew up unschooling with Jack choosing to go to high school so here's their answer I would love to know what piece of advice each of you would like to share with unschooling parents who are just starting out on this journey what would you say to them the first thing that comes to mind is trust your kids trust that they will find something I mean I mean no one took me to so I was like 14 to really like find like they really start picking up speed and start finding things today I liked but like for Sean it look longer and but yeah it's on a path now yeah yeah when I was 16 by the time maybe with you can see that wasn't high school right it was just one class yeah to really really do trust that they will find something and then also like like see what they're doing try to like find about it could find the value in what they're already doing because there's probably they might have already found it and you just don't think that it's you might not seeing that it's like it's valuable like this goes back to the video games you know like right like even at the age of you know we were kids and I was like even you know were 12 or something and and we were playing video games we were already starting to find it you know I was I was like getting in these online games and like you know talking my teammates like let's rally guys like working with these total strangers to like complete this goal and that was me like finding it that was me like slowly realizing like I want to like I want to work with people I want to help people like or well and then similarly Bashan like he was always more interested he was always interested in the cool games with the beautiful art and live really really more interesting stories and like able to show so when we were like really young we were already starting to find it so if you can like as parents if you can like really really pay attention to what they what gets them excited chances are even when they're kids that probably will bet that's some indication of kind of who they're going to become at least something there yeah you're just doing whatever sitting around it looks like to a lot of parents you're doing absolutely nothing significant and they're like oh no my kid is failing they're not interested when I go to school it's like you're there's something there everyone has interests yeah I think we're just drawn to find them regardless of what we're doing whether or not we're in school is there anything else you would like to add to that challenge what would you say something else that we were talking about before is don't don't give up on it I think unschooling is the type of thing that works really well if you're able to go through the whole process where you start on schooling you let your kid do their stuff figure it out for themselves and then go and have the motivation to do something themselves if partway through that um you tell your kid you know someone gets worried that their kid isn't is not working or whatever and they send their kid off to school I think you lose a big part of the benefit of it which is that the self motivation Act that you're choosing to do something the kid loses that because now they're being forced to go to school and and now almost it maybe makes it worse and I mean we didn't have this happen so I'm just sort of if I I'm just guessing on what it might be like but it feels like now you've had this this breath of fresh air where you can kind of do what you want and then suddenly you're in school where everything is structured you have to do certain stuff and it's not your choice it's gonna feel really bad to have all of that relaxing personal stuff taken away from you I think yeah yeah it feels like that would be that would feel like that time was judged and that you failed at it somehow because now your parents have decided to take that choice away from you when it's not like you said not on your timeline right so it can be a double whammy mm-hmm and then and then also if you're not if you don't have that motivation both the transition to the formal education can be hard I mean we it was the you know like taking tests and stuff this time it was easy for us because we were like oh yeah let's do it but if it's all upside in you now you're and you know eighth grade or something and you didn't want to be it couldn't probably it can feel really overwhelming to all of a sudden have all these tests and all this stuff if you weren't like expecting and ready to like take a lot challenge yeah definitely stick it out if you get if at all possible stick it out give your kids as much time as they need because they'll find something I love their focus on trusting your child to find their path it won't likely be on your timetable but it will happen next we hear from Katie Patterson Katie grew up on schooling leaving school after kindergarten here's her advice for parents starting out as a grown-up schooler what piece of advice would you like to share with unschooling parents who are just starting out on this journey it involves a lot of listening listening to your child listening to yourself and figuring out okay let me talk before figuring out what are our limits and what and it's like is this my discomfort is is my child's discomfort so it's a lot of listening and also learning to let go and learning to like let your child explore on their own if they need help they'll come to you for help you don't have to helicopter mom or helicopter dad if you're if you're a unschooling dad that understand that they they can figure it out and if they need help they'll come to you and the second thing I say I say this in seriousness as well as not so seriousness the TV is not an evil entity do not fear the talking box it is not going to eat you in your sleep because a fun fact about me and why I bring it up and because it ties it does tie into like me as a person and me and my career and stuff like that I didn't really talk until I was nearly four like when I say didn't really talk I mean I don't mean I'm talking like that's where I'm speaking full-on sentences I'm speaking spontaneously of like how I feel and stuff like that what I did was I would watch movies and if a line wreck rock for us a certain emotion and later in the day if I felt that certain emotion and I would repeat that same line that that I had this an emotion because that how I connected it and sometimes it would work sometimes it wouldn't and I was very great I'm very grateful because my parents like it could they could have very easily been like no don't do that that's weird that's that's not a normal thing instead we turn it into a game that we played at dinner where we would quote movies and we'd have to guess what movie we were quoting to and we would just like play for hours like we would have dinner and they're like okay it's time to play another quotes that's what do we what do we got who's got the first quote who can who can out koukin well everybody else I won a lot of the time but at the same time because of that I was able to develop the memorization I learned at that very young age like about three-and-a-half nearly four and it learned into my memorization of scripts as an actor and memorization of emotions and and like learning how to like push different buttons to like bring forth the motion organically or as my one of my acting teachers told me living truthfully in imaginary circumstances and that thing that could have been seen as a defect that could have been seen as a great fault ultimately turned into what I am now where I'm able I make a career out of memorization and we're and attaching it to emotion oh I love that story Katie thank you very much for sharing that because that's the thing we were talking about before too right being open to our kids and seeing our kids you know through their eyes instead of through our lens you know and like you're talking about that judgement of this is this is weird this is something wrong this is something we need to fix but it's not normal yeah embracing the child for who they are because like you said you don't know and and it doesn't need to be that it turned into a career but yeah that's just what happened that's just what happened and we were open the possibility that this is something that's something that could have been determined it turned out to be one of my great strengths yeah and it's actually something I'm still really good with I'm really good with memorizing stuff like I tell I always tell my mom I'm like mom you said this about last week yeah you know no matter what if there's something they're interested in or something some way that they're seeing things or whatever we don't need in that moment to understand why it may be ten fifteen years looking back where we go oh I see what they were getting out of it I see the value the whatever the connection you know and we don't even have to know ever but what's important is it's really important to them in that moment right exactly yeah and that's how they're engaging with the world and another thing I'll probably I'll close out on this one because I don't know how much time we have left when it has like like I had with like my memorization and stuff at it don't look at it as like this is a big detriment this is a big fault this is a red flag that this is bad this is wrong this is not normal embrace it as a trait that this is who they are this is what makes them a person they may grow out of it they may develop it into something else they may it may stick with them who knows but really embrace that don't think of it of like oh no there's something wrong it's like okay this is what my kid is dealing with we're going to do with this we're going to figure out if it is if the kid needs help or if I just let it be or if I help develop it into something else that's something that's good don't always think in negatives try to make it a positive yeah and and that's all part of just supporting is there and being with that because you know what if at some point they are starting to feel like it's a negative and they want more help absolutely the movie quote game is a great story isn't it and a wonderful example of embracing who your child is it started way back when Katie was a toddler supporting her strength and is woven beautifully into the person she is today next up is Kelly Nicole Kelly left public school for greener pastures at the end of fifth grade and her family eventually settled into unschooling here's what she had to say now as a grown on schooler what piece of advice would you like to share with unschooling parents who are just starting out on this journey gosh don't do it guess what I've said the whole time as kids of people yeah embrace them for who they are they're not gonna love everything you do and you're not gonna love everything they do and that's okay they're gonna be into things you didn't care about and you're gonna try giving up things that you care about me don't like it and that's okay just love your kids for who they are and that's like the most important thing anyone unschooling or not you know I see a lot people who who don't have that and don't do that but kids are tiny people just your job as a parent isn't to do things perfect it's a help them grow and learn is to support them is to lead them into a healthy life path um and that's all you can do because eventually your kids are gonna grow up and they're gonna go out on their own so if you're honest willing at least you have that time with them to make that difference I love how that message has has you know come through in so many of the questions and all their conversations because right you know yeah yeah and that's what made a huge difference for me in my life that was a wonderful reminder from Kelly to embrace your children for who they are did you notice how beautifully it connected with Katie's answer and now let's hear from Alec trosset Alec left school in the third grade and over the next couple of years his family made their way to unschooling here's what he shared the last question I would love to ask you as a grown unschool earn ow what piece of advice would you like to share with unschooling parents who are just starting out on the journey this is a that's a hard question so um but of course let's see so honestly the best thing that my parents did for me was give me the freedom to make my own decisions kind of a universal freedom to make my own decisions you know within reason but you know when it came to what I put in my body what I spent my time doing when I slept I was given the freedom to do all of those things and it allowed me to make some poor decisions at times and learn from that and and eventually become the the healthy person that I am now you know I really feel like the self-awareness I've gained from that the fact that I know my body so well I know my interests so well I know myself so well I think that's what it comes from is that universal freedom I was given by my parents so you know it's hard to let go but it helped me so much it was you know it's it helps me in so many ways but I know that letting go is the hardest thing to do as a parent probably yeah yeah I love that piece and I love that you threw in there that within reason thing and and the I was gonna say poor choices but they weren't poor at the time they were the choices today so really good you know I didn't feel so great you know now at 25 I'm drinking nothing but water and everybody around you got their diet coke or whatever and not everybody but ya know the rates are drinking very unhealthy things is way up and I got that out of my system and learned what that does to me on my own terms and been able to establish healthy habits for myself so just just by I know it's paradoxical isn't it it seems like having the freedom to drink terrible things no I don't want to so and I feel like having it if I had had it or strictly from age you know zero all the way up to 18 or 19 or whatever I was an adult you'll be much harder to form healthy habits because I want to be healthy because the only thing stopping me from drinking before would have been this restriction well if you're if you're avoiding something because of restriction then it's not for yourself um you have to learn to do something like that for yourself and that's what I was able to do from a very young age No and within reason of course I'm not saying you've got a five-year-old kid and you have sugar sugary snacks laying all over the house and they're eating nothing with that I'm nurse there's comments and stuff yeah well I think they're within reason bit is is the conversations that unschooling parents eat conversations you know sometimes when parents are nude unschooling parents here give our kids freedom they disconnect they think of it as okay just leave them alone to make their choices and know the the reason within reason part is but it's within the child's reason but it's it's having conversations with them it's helping them process those choices oh gee you know what happened after that oh maybe maybe that stomachache is related to all that cool later you know just helping them learn from it not leaving them to try and figure it all out in the dark right exactly yeah and that's that is yeah you you brought it up but the the other thing I would have said if I if I thought of myself first was definitely the communication unschooling is not fun parenting they're unrelated there's no connection between the two and my parents also always communicated to me and wanted to make sure I knew that yes those unhealthy things I was doing were unhealthy and they wanted to make sure I knew that while I was doing it but I still have the choice and that's what allowed me to choose not to do that anymore for myself so well yeah because you know when someone's telling you when they take away that agency when they take away that choice and then your choices aren't about you anymore you know what I mean like you know if if they were judgmental in you know they were sharing information about oh you might not be feeling well because of X choice right but if you could tell through their tone that they were trying to control you your choice would be more in reaction to their kind of judgment than would be to you actually learning gaining that self-awareness and making that choice for yourself right yeah I love Alex insight into the value of having both the freedom to make choices and open communication with his parents choices and communication they weave together brilliantly don't they now notice how the freedom to make choices comes up again with our next grow none schooler max Vern oi max always unschooled when he hit school-age his parents asked him if he'd like to go and he said nope here's his advice for parents starting out as a grown on schooler now with years of unschooling under your belt what piece of advice would you like to share with unschooling parents who are just kind of starting out on this journey maybe they've got young kids or maybe their kids a little bit older but they're just discovered it they're just diving into it what advice would you give to them I think giving you kids the choice the option to make choices in their own life is a huge benefit to them including allowing your kids to make the wrong decision because I think making the wrong decision can be a huge benefit to growing your character and to learn about yourself and I think a lot of parents get too caught up forcing their kids to make the right decisions that the kids don't even learn how to make decisions I think there's a big difference between you can still be there as a parent to help guide your child you can give them advice give them feedback help them through whatever decision they make and then be there to catch them if they do fall down but let them make that decision for themselves I think is a huge benefit yeah I think parents can get be so caught up like from the way we were raised and and most of us went to school failure in quotes is such a big thing right to avoid it's like oh my god and so we want to try and save everybody we know I mean our kids our spouse you know everybody it's like no no I I know what's right that's not gonna work out right but it's so true that's something I learned from watching my kids and and I used to just be so amazed like they'd make a choice they'd want to do it and it wouldn't work out the way that they were hoping and it wasn't the end of the world like I'd be totally you know in shame and embarrassed and judging myself for having made the wrong choice in that moment because I didn't get what I wanted out of it but no they they they just learned from it and theirs they just like got right back up is like oh hey oh oops I didn't work I'm gonna try this I try this and I think that was something that I learned from my kids so much and how valuable it was to just be able to make the choice because I mean you're always making the the best choice for yourself in that moment right I mean you're not thinking oh well this would be I this thing has the best chance of working out but I'm gonna choose something different typically no but but yeah what do you learn you learn oh I was missing this piece of information or I didn't understand how big that impact was gonna be like there's a million things and like you said you learned so much from it and having your parents around to help you just process that figure out what it is that didn't work out as as you expected etc there's just so much learning again about ourselves and about the situation and about how to make choices right oh I didn't consider this or I didn't consider that there's just so much in there I love that now is there anything else from your Anjali experience that I didn't ask you about that you think would be helpful for people trying to understand like I know so often they enjoy hearing from grown unschoolers right because they they're choosing this lifestyle but you know their their kids are younger and they don't they don't know how it's gonna turn out and I think that's something that they really enjoy so was there another piece of your unschooling lifestyle over the years growing up that you thought was really important for you I think just being respected makes a big difference if you want to if you want to if you want to raise a kid to be respectful respecting them is the best way to do it that makes sense too right it's not when you think about it but we grow up being taught that you know you just automatically repair ins like automatically that's just something that parents should expect of their children rather than earning it right and and by showing that respect to them and treating them as it as a as a real person as a human being that's what helps them understand what that means you know what I mean like yeah yeah it it's almost so self-evident it's hard to explain yeah yeah and thinking about it it's kind of obvious but in every single little moment its how to think and remember to be kind and respectful with everything you do because life is hard life is full of various things that you have to deal with especially as a parent raising children there's a million things you have to worry about and sometimes being respectful to your kid it's not one of those things that you think about unfortunately I love how max brought being respectful to your child into the picture and how even the life be hard taking that time to respectfully engage with them through those moments can be so valuable cultivating both trust and respect for each other now let's hear from Alisa Patterson Alisa grew up unschooling choosing to go to high school for a year and a half or so before returning home again here's what she shared the as a groanin schooler what piece of advice would you like to share with unschooling parents who are just starting out on this journey welcome it like you I honestly and I'm not one to like blow smoke or anything like that but I just think it's one it's one of the greatest things that people that we are lucky to actually be able to do you know there are some like some states where it's a little bit more frowned upon and depending on where you are obviously but I think my advice would be just because I've seen it and I've had friends that go through it is um make sure when you are raising your kids because it's a way of raising your children that you are not putting your fears and insecurities onto them and by that it's not it's more of like I've seen people be like oh they're not there they're not gonna be nothing nothing I've never heard anyone say it but it they've implied it it's not it's not hard to miss that they're not gonna get to ask to prom or they're not gonna get asked to or they're not gonna be popular or they're not gonna have all these things and you have to as an adult I think you have to acknowledge that those are your fears they don't know those things they don't and so I think it's our job when they're little to protect them from those things and being popular isn't that great sometimes and you know there's a lot of negative things about I didn't I went to high school I didn't get asked to prom no one asked me so there's not just because of that but I think those are yours and like we were talking earlier about they are their own individual person whether you know whether they're it's a boy it's a girl transgender whatever they are their own individuals and so you have to accept that you have yours and they're gonna have theirs and I used this analogy with my mom she was having she asked me questions over once a while and she has people she said I don't know how to respond about this preteen is situation and so you have to think about this I said social media like I said earlier has taken off in a way that they are constantly accessible that they are it's it's crazy how much access people have to each other now and so it's insane and so you have to think about this especially preteens because I feel like I'm noticing a lot of people pulling their kids out of school um at 10 or 12 and they're really I've talked to people that are really struggling like that just because they're 12 you don't think they're gonna make any friends or anything like that you have to be very patient and understanding because there they are literally the way that I put it with my mom is I was like they are literally going to war every single day with their own mental if they have their own insecurities that they're beating themselves up on or anything and they have people literally throwing darts at them all day long because they have so much access and so they're in a battlefield essentially and I said the last thing that they need is their parents throwing darts from the back and and they're it's very sad but it's very true and the thing is is they're not even mean malicious things that we're like doing but I think you have to take a step back and acknowledge maybe they don't want to be popular maybe they don't want to go and be social maybe they don't want to go to prom maybe you know their sexualities different or anything and I think it's very big to let help them and a lot of people are like it's my job to keep them on the right path or the good path and I completely agree that it's your job to keep them safe and everything like that but it is your job to keep them on their path because their path is the good path for them and so it's your job to help them on their path and just because their path may twist and whine a little bit differently than yours it's there and so you have to just be really understanding and supportive and I think really listen to them because I feel like especially in the system I feel like a lot of kids weren't listened to when they would say things and I've seen a lot of people go to and some really really dark paths and some people not make it out because they weren't listened to and so which is really hard and no one should have to go through that and so I think it's very important to listen and I feel a lot of people I've seen tons of clothes about it is a lot of people listen so what is that they listen to react and not to understand or it's listen to respond instead of understand and I think that speaks volume especially when you're in a transition like this because it is a very people think it'll be easy like who doesn't wanted to stay home all day it's very hard it's very hard for your kids and I mean I know it's hard for the parents too because some of the kids get rebellious and they have attitude and they've got hormones going on and they have all these other things but I think that's where the compassion needs to come in you need to be more understanding more listening and especially in the transition do what they want to do it's not why fight them like if you're trying to do something and create them and help them build and stuff like that help them and listen and talk about it and really weigh in their opinions because they have a say it's their life my goodness Alyssa that was that was wonderful I love that and that is such a huge challenging part of the descaling process I think it's that unwinding of that yeah that view of what we what we imagine our children or who we imagine our children to be versus who our child is right exactly I think that it starts with you I think it starts with the parent like you have to recognize your views yeah versus their views and then once you is so important right yeah and once you do that I think you will have it's gonna be shocking how much what kind of doors will open just from acknowledging your fears your projection that you're projecting on your kid and they may not be scared or they may not you know they might not be ready or maybe don't pull them out right away and do unschooling unschooling stuff for everyone like I love it I love it I love it I love it it's not if and sometimes I've had I have one girl that was just so in school and she was so into it and I said why don't you just go to a one-day Academy why don't you baby step and help them don't just shell shock them you know and listen if this is something they really want and they're really passionate about then you need to compromise because like I said it is their life exactly well and it is their life that's that that is the entire point you're trying with unschooling we're trying to give them that power to be fully engaged in their life to be making those choices and learning from them and discovering discovering themselves and what they like and and how they like to learn and their personality like all that kind of stuff we want to help them do it now versus waiting til they're out of school they're out on their own all of a sudden there's like all these other responsibilities in the world wow they're trying to figure themselves out at the same time because this is the first time they've ever been on their Oh like I mean I remember that first year of university and people the other other kid I mean it was crazy how unprepared they were to just be on their own because they never had that or experienced that or made their own choices before right it was like it was like you know that rubberband that you pull and they just boom slingshot out into the world exactly but no I mean that that was spectacular goosebumps listening you listen because that that is such such a huge aspect but entirely worth it that is gonna be I think one of the most important parts right because once you can see your kid and as the individual they are and be listening to them and be working with them to accomplish what they want versus what we would like for them because sometimes especially when we're first gain sir we can't tell the difference between those things like you said right it should be so easy for us to all be home right to leave school or to not go to school and we have all this time we can just do all the fun things we wanted to do but who knows like where those fun things that I think we should do because that's what you know families like to do Oh families of course we should want to travel and of course we should always want to go out and go to parks and you know do these do these extracurricular classes and all this kind stuff this dream that we have in our mind about what its gonna look like if we don't have school in the picture can be very different from what our kids actually want to do so us teasing that that out for ourselves understanding what are our expectations understanding what we've just absorbed as what we should be doing you know and then discovering our child is so often I say you know spend those first few months just hanging out with your kids and discovering who they are and what they like to do and they're gonna be doing that too right when they when especially if you're it's a shift in your lifestyle if you're having a big change coming from school or even coming from a more conventional mindset right yeah that that they too are gonna have so much adjusting to do from on the academic side maybe but also on that parenting side and that shift to exploring and shift to being able to express themselves you know when they're asked what they want to be like oh my god it's yes well I think that's a big thing too is that a lot of people don't I'm glad you said that that a question I feel like a lot of people parents don't ask is what do you want to do yeah they say this is what we're going to do and there's a huge difference and you're gonna see huge difference just by changing those words because when you make them believe that they actually have a say its shake its shell shocking to them and that and so they are just like oh my gosh like I can actually say like I want to sleep till 2:00 okay like that's okay it's okay to sleep til 2:00 and I see lots of people arguing about that it's okay I slept fall too for a long time and I think it's a big deal when you start asking them what do they want to do and I think that's a huge first step in unschooling is because it's about them and so what what do you want to do ELISA nailed the value of doing the work to be able to recognize and acknowledge our own fears so we can avoid projecting them on to our children remember to ask them what they want to do and then help them do that this next clip is from my conversation with Adrian piece Williams Adrian grew up unschooling and chose to go to high school when she was 15 she shared some great insights about that experience in our conversation but here are her thoughts for newer unschooling parents as a grown on schooler what piece of advice would you like to share with unschooling parents who are maybe just starting out on this journey yeah I thought about this question and it's tricky because I think every parent and every kid and every community in every environment is different so it's gonna look different for everyone but I I think what I came to is like the that I have valued I think the most from my experience is being unschooled was that was like my tools kind of that I have now I did I think being a nun schooler got me and the parents that I have was like okay how do I listen and how do I communicate my needs and how do I listen to other people's needs and how do I know how to ask questions when I don't know the answers and how do I go into a new situation feeling okay and feeling like okay I can do this and even if I don't know how to do it I know what my next steps are or how to figure it out or okay this didn't work where do I go from here and how do like how to live and how to how to love too like how to love myself and how to love other people and how to you know figure my way around a city and like how to take care of other kids or like how to have a conversation with an adult when I'm free or like I think knowing how to learn is much more important than knowing math or like knowing how to write an essay perfectly because if you know how to learn then you can go into most any situation and figure it out I know how to have the confidence that that's okay like like teach your kid that it's okay to not know something it's okay to you know be wrong or like make mistakes and it's okay to do these things and that's those are the situations where you learn because if you know how to learn and if you know how to fail then like you can do anything I think because if it's okay to keep failing eventually you're gonna get it and you're gonna learn and and and how to ya love and like working a team and and listen listen I think to your kids because I think they'll tell you what they need even if it's not verbally I think that yeah letting them be the leaders I think is really important to yeah focusing on like skills instead of specific things and then just following your kid I think are important that's such a great point isn't it if you know how to learn and you know how to fail you can do anything it's okay to make mistakes that's often something that as parents we need to work through because growing up making mistakes wasn't okay it meant a big red X a lower grade and feeling bad about ourselves that work is D schooling in action and our last snippet comes from my conversation with Xander mix Juan Xander left school in the fifth grade when his mom an education professor looking at Studies on human learning and child brain development decided the best thing they could do for their kids would be to pull them out of school here's what he shared as a grown-up schooler what piece of advice would you like to share with unschooling parents who are just starting out on this journey I know we talked - we talked earlier about that cocoon phase if that happens yeah oh yeah I think that is such a big piece today I think it's probably the biggest learning curve is having heard from sort of like our sort of cultural paradigm as a parent you're sort of like sole responsible for your kid - to be ok again if they aren't like behaving away like a kid and on TV behaves then you're a failure as a parent and I think that a really big part of unschooling is sort of slowing down and learning to really trust in your kid and in the relationship you have with your kid and to let let that kid blossom and exactly the way that they want to and they're meant to and I think the the most powerful thing any parent can do for a kid in my opinion is to be there to sort of stand as this like smiling supportive witness and watch the kid grow into their perfect expression of who they want to be in the world and that can be really hard to do as a parent that's a huge question like a huge request to make and I think there's like I haven't heard research or stories that led me to think there's anything else that comes close to having as much impact in a kid finding happiness and in meaningful engagement in their life I love that I love that word witness witness rather than direct right I really love that's that's a that's a great way to put it to be there and and that positive trusting support of just just so I guess support of supportive is it you know witness to their lives and an encouragement an acceptance of who they are right that that that's that huge piece you know when you especially when you come from school with school there's this you know model that everybody's supposed to get to right do it doing well and listening while I'm doing what you're told and and and everything but to help them to give them the space and time and support to find out who they are yeah right that's that was great one of the projects I work on now is a volunteer in prisons know helping uh helping inmates to sort of get to know themselves and come into a greater sense of sort of like emotional understanding and a really huge part of what we're doing there is giving this human space to express themselves and be accepted and sort of like learn to trust that they're safe in that room and that they're loved and belong and that they deserve those things sort of no matter what and if you can give that to someone while they're a kid you know before they make a mistake I think as humans we're so liked to have a sense of like safety in our body it's is so dependent of having a sense of belonging mm-hmm and having a sense of like family and I think to let a kid know that they're accepted and that let their love no matter what in this such a tangible way as really being there to support them and making their own choices like nothing can do so much to really set a kid free I really love what Zander shared imagine from your child's perspective feeling truly seen and supported for who you are knowing that you're loved no matter what how empowering so in bringing all these together it was fascinating to see the threads that repeatedly wove through so many of their answers things like releasing control and embracing who your child is the value they found in the freedom to make choices and to be okay with making mistakes listening to them respectfully and having open conversations without agendas helping them explore who they are and trusting them to find their way those are many of the roots of unschooling build that foundation and you'll soon discover how everything else grows from their curiosity and lifelong learning strong and connected relationships it's amazing and remember to have fun with it [Music]

Channel: Living Joyfully with Unschooling

Views: 13,034

Rating: 4.9287834 out of 5

Keywords: unschooling, unschool, self directed education, children, Parenting, home schooling, run free, learn, toddlers, homeschool, education, free range, radical unschooling, homeschooling, freedom, podcast, autonomous learning, Pam Laricchia, exploring unschooling, home education, learning without school, natural learning, self-directed learning, self directed learning, deschooling, deschool, unschooler, alternate education, alternate learning, exxploring unschooling, unschooled

Id: CcfX72ukcL0

Length: 59min 23sec (3563 seconds)

Published: Thu Dec 26 2019