Today we're going to talk
about making friends in America. This is something a lot of
you guys have asked me about. David, I got an email today from a Rachel's English
Academy student named Clarence who was saying he goes to school in the US but all of his friends that he's making are other international students. And he says they're great people,
they're wonderful friends, but he wants more opportunity
to practice his English and to engage with
Americans while he's here. And he was asking for some advice about making friends in America. And it reminded me of
the podcast that we made, which I'll play at the end of this video, so you won't have to
click anywhere to find it, but I also thought it's worth revisiting. It's a big topic. It's a really big topic, yeah. So I thought we could start a little bit by talking about our best
friends, how we've made them, and then also now at this stage in life how it's harder to make friends, I think we're both finding, and we can sort of talk about ways to connect with Americans. So out of your very best friends, you have different sets of
people, wouldn't you say? Yeah, I think that that's right. And where did you
make your best friends? They come from a couple different areas and stages of life, I guess. From high school and college,
there's a couple of people that are even to this day
very close friends, actually, my closest friends, I would say. And then I also have
some very good friends who I've met through
work, so, later in life. And then, just meeting people
who are friends of friends, so some kind of connection
through a shared friend. And again, that one was later in life. that's a good point. You brought up two potential
ways to make friends. First of all, you mentioned
school, which I think a lot of us have made a
lot of friends in school. The reason is you're seeing
the same people over and over every day, that helps build friendships, but you also mentioned work, and I think a lot of
people watching this video might be people who live
in the United States, work in the United States,
but have a hard time taking the co-worker level
to a friendship level. What would you say about that? Would you have any advice
about how to approach somebody in a more formal situation
to turn it into something that has a casual side as well? Yeah, I think it is challenging. I think it's challenging
for Americans too. One of the things that
I've been thinking about, as we've been preparing, is
that it's tempting sometimes to say no to an invitation if you're not feeling the
whole way comfortable. Invitations tend to come out of the blue. And a non-native
speaker might especially if they're not feeling really
confident in their English might especially have a hesitation there. Right, so I think an important thing is to say to yourself right now the next time that I'm
approached by somebody at work who says, "Hey, do you
want to go to a movie? "Hey, do you want to
get a drink after work? "Hey, some of us are gonna
go to happy hour on Friday "after work, do you wanna come along?" It might not be somebody
that you know very well or again, you might have
that instantaneous sort of, "Oh my god, they're all gonna
be speaking really quickly, "I'm not gonna feel comfortable." But I think it's really
important in those spots to push yourself to say, "Yep, sure, that sounds
great, I'd love to." Knowing that at worst, it's
gonna be an opportunity to really practice your
English with native speakers, and at best, it's gonna be a chance to really connect with people
in a way that's beyond work. And if a co-worker has
invited you to do something, then I think that's a sign that that's somebody you
can feel comfortable with, if you don't understand, saying, "I'm sorry, you're
speaking a little too fast. "What did you say?" Or something like that. They've invited you into a
more intimate relationship, a less formal relationship,
so I think you can feel free to take advantage of that
and ask for clarification. Maybe they use an idiom or a
phrasal verb you don't know, great opportunity for you to ask. Now, let's flip this around and say no one's asking you
at work to do something. What about starting it yourself? I think a great thing
that you can look for as you're wanting to
connect with more people, whether it's at work or
maybe you go to church or you have some sort of religious group that you participate
with, if you're looking, any group of people that
you're seeing regularly, if you're looking to
take it a step further, I think always look for some common interest that you might have. So for example, if at the
office you come to realize that your co-worker is really
into the Marvel action movies or whatever and you are too,
discuss it, talk about it, and then maybe at some point say, "Hey, let's go see the
new one", or whatever. Find something that you
already have in common and then use that as a way to invite somebody to do something. And also, don't be afraid to ask somebody. It's not unusual in a work environment to see if a co-worker wants to
do something outside of work. So, definitely, in America, that's a pretty common thing to happen. So definitely feel free, or even if you're just
having a good conversation to just say, "Oh, do you
want to meet up after work "for a little bit? "Do you have time?" Or something like that. I think also realizing that
somebody has a common interest even at just during that conversation, that means that the person
is gonna be really interested in what you have to say. That I think means it's a
good time to say to yourself, okay, this person is probably
gonna be fine with me saying, "Hey, I didn't quite catch
that, can you say that again?" Or even after you've said something that you're not sure is quite right, that kind of a person
is a good person to say, "Hey, did I say that right? "I wasn't sure if I said that right." I think making people
your conversation partner, it often just takes a little
bit of courage in saying, "Hey, did I say that right? "Hey, would you mind
just saying that again? "I wasn't quite sure I caught it." Almost always people are really
willing to jump in and say, "Oh, actually, yeah,
you almost had it right, "but there was this one little part, "let me tell you about it." People love to help. - And they might not
correct you if not prompted. - I would say that even stronger, they're likely to not correct you. I think Americans are, I think some cultures
would be much more free to jump in and say, "Oh, you
said that a little bit off." Thinking back to being in Italy, I feel like Italian culture,
it's more kind of out there, and people might say, "Oh you
said that a little bit wrong." I think Americans are very
reticent to initiate that, but very ready to give you that
feedback if you ask for it. That would be my take on it. - And this is reminding me,
as we're talking about work, I'm thinking, okay, one
of my other students in Rachel's English Academy,
Sam, works in Silicon Valley, and he was saying so
many of his co-workers, the vast majority were
non-native speakers. And so, even though he was
interacting with people all throughout the day,
and he lives in America, he still felt like he was not
immersed in American English, which he really wanted to be because he wanted to get better at it. So this is the same issue
that Clarence was having. All of his friends were
international students. Where are other places? How can you start
relationships with people, start friendships with people? I had a couple of ideas. One of them is, when I
was studying in Europe, the place where I was
studying, the Goethe-Institut, had a program where it matched people who wanted to learn languages, so I was matched with somebody
who lived there in Germany that wanted to learn English. That became a great way
for me to practice German and also to have a friend. And so I would say look for programs where maybe there's a language school,
let's say you speak Arabic, find a language school, if
they're giving Arabic classes and especially intermediate
or advanced classes, contact them and say, "I'm
a native Arabic speaker. "Do you have any program "where you connect your native
speakers with Americans? "'Cause I'd love a language exchange." It's a possibility. And then it's really a win-win
'cause you're both invested, you're both wanting the same thing. And when you're meeting someone regularly, it's very possible that a real friendship can develop, I think. - Absolutely. - Another thing that I've
talked about before is, how can you create a space where you're seeing the
same people regularly? If it's not work, if it's not school, and there are various clubs, there's a running club in Philadelphia. In our neighborhood, there's
like a mom's meetup group. Look for that kind of thing. What's your interest? Search for it online, see if there's a local group
where people are meeting up. There's the the dad's meetup once a month, that you've been to before. That's a great way to
maybe connect with people more than once. And I really think when
it comes to friendship, in the podcast, I was
talking about my friend Cara who will chat up anybody on the subway, in the line at the grocery
store, it doesn't matter, and she sometimes exchanges numbers and makes friends with people. Most people aren't like that. Most people need a time
or two of meeting somebody in sort of a more structured environment to let friendship develop.
- I think that's right. Another thing I was thinking about is, I've played co-ed soccer
in an intramural league, and in that league you can sign
up as an individual person, you don't have to be
part of a team already, and I think this is a pretty
big trend in a lot of cities in the US where all kinds of sports from kickball and really
informal sorts of sports, all the way up to obviously
competitive intramural sports are happening, I think it's a
trend not just in Philadelphia but people are using the
internet to easily sign up for those kinds of leagues.
- Great point. - And you sign up for something like that, especially if you sign
up as an individual, you're just gonna get plunked on a team, and of course that's incredibly terrifying to show up for the first game, but it forces you to meet native speakers, it forces you to use some conversation. And also, I think that, again,
there's sort of a happy hour, let's grab a drink after the game culture, in a lot of those leagues
and organizations, and so be ready to say, "Yeah,
yeah, I'm in, let's go." And then, even if it's 10 people, you don't have to make
friends with all of them, but maybe there's one person who you kind of have a
connection with and you can say, "Hey, I'll see you next week,
it was great to meet you." Any kind of club or anything
that's interesting to you. - And if sports isn't your thing, I think there is a lot of gaming, a lot of stuff set up around gaming, both traditional games like
board games, card games, and then of course video games,
which we know nothing about, but we know that they're very
huge at this point in time. And that people are going and watching other people play and stuff. So, whatever, however you
like to spend your time, try to find a group of
people doing the same thing. So let's get into some things that are a little bit
more American specific. How do you feel, do you feel that Americans
are approachable? And if someone approached you, how would you want them to approach you? I guess is my question. Some people, there can be
a big cultural unknown, and someone might say, "Well, I would never do
that in my own country, "that would be interpreted as this. "I'm afraid to do that here." If someone at work, say,
wanted to be your friend, and how would they approach you in a way that would make
you feel open to that, do you think? - Yeah, that's actually a really difficult question to answer, I think. For me, the default should
be to be pretty direct. "You can be as direct as I am "new to the culture of
making friends in America. "And it was great talking
with you about the movie "over lunch, would you be
open to hanging out sometime?" I do think that Americans, compared to a lot of other
cultures can come off as a little bit chilly or standoffish. But I think that right behind
that is a desire to connect, and I would say being
direct is the way to go. You could sit back and try to figure out, "Well maybe if I did it this
way or this way or this way", put yourself out there
and take on this sort of, even if you have to fake it, take on the spirit of
courage and directness and just say, "Hey,
would you be up for going "to lunch sometime? "Or what about coffee some afternoon?" You just gotta go for it. - What do you think about this idea? I think a lot of people are interested in things they don't know much about, and a lot of people love having a hook-up, someone that knows a lot about something. What if someone approached you and said, like let's say a Japanese
co-worker, and said, "Hey, there's this great
Japanese restaurant, "do you want to come with me sometime? "And I can show you all the best foods." Or something like that,
a way to invite them into your own culture
in a way within America or to be able to share
something unique about yourself could also be a really great
way to pique someone's interest in you and what you have to offer. - Yeah, I think that's a great point. And related, no matter
what kind of activity, if you know that you're
interested in going to something or planning to go to
something, you can say, "Hey, on Friday right after work, "I'm going to a show that
just opened that the museum. "Any chance you'd like
to join me for that?" Because that gives the
person a lot of space to say, "Oh no, I can't, thanks anyway." That's a little bit easier than saying, "Hey, can you and I do something sometime? "I have a plan, would you
like to come with me on it?" It implies, "I'm going either way." It makes it more casual. - And it's also a really good point, if you find something
that's happening locally that's really interesting, then that can be part of what's happening. I personally think a lot of
Americans like doing things. And so the idea of just
sitting down to a conversation with somebody with no purpose might seem a little bit strange, but if it's the idea of going and doing something
interesting with someone that that might be more appealing. Invite them to, like you
said, a museum opening, or a concert, or in Philadelphia, there's all sorts of
interesting events going on in the summer outside, this kind of thing. So that could also be a great way to make that first ask of somebody, taking them from a co-worker
to hanging out once could be, invite them into your
own culture in some way, or invite them to go do
something really cool within the city or the
place where you live. So to wrap this up, making
friends in America can be hard, and one thing we didn't get to
is that for both you and me, after college, we've had a
hard time making friends, like where do you meet people? And this is something I've
discussed with other friends too when they move somewhere new. So if you're a non-native
speaker living in the US and you're feeling this, you're not alone. I also feel that it's
hard to make friends. But a couple of ways to try to do that, find places where you'll
be seeing the same people more than once in a
structured environment. And say yes if you get
asked to do something, try to be outgoing, and maybe even be the
person to make the ask. And this is something
that we've talked about, as I said, in the podcast and I thought, I mean, that's been really well received, I think that's been
really helpful for people, so you don't have to go
anywhere to find that, I don't want to make you click, we're gonna play it right now. Keep in mind it's just audio,
but we'll play it here, and if you want a
transcript of that podcast, all of the transcripts
from my podcasts are free and I'll put the link on the screen and also in the video description, or you can go download a free
transcript of the podcast. So do you have any other words
or ideas of advice for people who were not born in
America, living in America, trying to connect with Americans? - Yeah well, no I think, as
you were talking, it just, it brought up for me how much Americans are looking for connection too. It might feel one-sided, like, "Ah, I have to put myself out there, "and it's not my native language", but I think as you practice that and maybe get shot down a
couple times, who cares? I think you'll find
that a lot of Americans are really seeking that kind
of more real connection too. So just kind of trust that and go for it. - Yes, I think that's a great point, even though it might not seem like it, if you're willing to break the ice, I think you might find that
there's a lot of willingness to connect and to be friends. - Okay, well David, thanks for joining me for this conversation about
friendships in America. That's it guys, thanks so much
for using Rachel's English, and stay tuned to listen to that podcast. You are listening to the Rachel's English Podcast. I'm so glad to have you here. In this podcast, we discuss
topics in American conversation, pronunciation and culture. And today's episode focuses on culture. If you would like a free
transcript for this podcast, just visit RachelsEnglish.com/podcast and look for this episode. Today, I'm here with my husband David. Hey, David. - Hey, everybody. - And we're going to talk about friendships in America. David, you have lots of friends. - I do. - So I think
you're probably gonna have a lot to add to this one. - All right. - So I went to, the thing that made me
think about this podcast is two different emails that I got. Actually, one was a comment on YouTube. And this person whose username
is Management Courses said, "You're so lucky to have
friends who are supportive, "both males and females." David, this was on a video
that I made with Dave at the 4th of July when we were in Clark Park talking about 4th of July traditions. - Right, okay.
- Do you remember that video? - Yeah, I do. - I'll link to that video in the show notes, everybody, but it was me with a friend, who's a man, discussing what we like
to do on the 4th of July. So this person says, "Can you make a video "on how to build more
supportive friendships? "What do you do to be a better friend? "In my culture, after marriage, "the wife's friendships suffer, "and you can't keep close
friendships with the opposite sex. "I had the misconception that Americans don't value friendship, "or their friendships are
not long-lasting, or shallow. "Your videos showed me the opposite." So that's great, I'm so
glad that my videos showed that Americans do value friendship, and that friendships are not
just shallow or short-lived. - Absolutely. - But so, let's try to talk a little bit about friendships. Let's focus in on some of
the specific questions. How to build more supportive friendships? Now part of what's so
great about having David on this podcast is not only
does he have a ton of friends, but he's also a therapist, and so he talks to a lot of other people about their friendships and
their relationships in general, and has a lot of things to say about this kind of thing, I think. David, what would you say
makes a better friend? Makes someone a good friend? - Sure. First of all I guess
while I'm thinking of it, I think part of what's interesting is that from a non-native speaker's perspective or someone who's new to American culture, I think because of advertising and sort of just the way things look from the outside, I think it's easy to assume
that for all of us really that for other people, making
friends is really easy. I think it's something that we feel like we should be able to do, well, everybody else is out
there having a good time, look at everybody on TV, when in reality, I think the opposite is true, I think the majority of people are either wishing they had more friendships or wishing that things
about the friendships that they do have might
be a little bit different, like they often wish
that they were more close with more people. So I think that's the first
thing that popped in my mind is that a lot of people, non-native speakers and
native speakers alike struggle with this, even
though I don't think, I mean, I really appreciate
the courage in the question because I don't think a lot
of people bring this up. - Yeah, it's a good point. I mean as I'm sitting here
listening to you talk about this I'm thinking I could definitely
say that this is true of me living in Philadelphia. I've been here for three years now and I'm definitely starting
to make some friends that feel like really,
really quality friendships, but I can't say that I've
made any of those by myself. They're all friends that
I made through David, that David already had established some sort of a relationship with, like I haven't met
somebody that I have turned into a friend, really, on my own. - You've been connected
to some friends of friends. - Yeah.
- Also. - I mean, that's
always the end, right? When you move somewhere new,
you look for connections you have to people that are there already, but as far as if you were moving
to America to go to school or for a job or something
where you didn't already have anyone established in
that town or in that city, that would make it really
hard to know where to start. And I think for me, I could
definitely say as an adult three years into that experience, I don't really have people that I have met because I have been introduced
to them in a way other than through someone I already knew. - Yeah, I follow. Right, it's not easy. - No, it's really but. But having said that, we
do have good friends here and it is true that Americans
do value friendship, even though probably a lot of people might like to have more friends or more closer friendships than they have. - Yeah, I think to
answer that part of her question, absolutely I think Americans
very much value friendships. Of course, it looks
different in in all cultures, but I think also something, and the comment is also true that it can, it can be difficult when
it is across gender. I mean, yes, your video
with Dave at the park, it's a great video and
you guys are good friends and it is not a big deal at all, but I also think it's not
uncommon for that to be something that causes
tension in relationships-- - And complication,
yeah, I thought it-- - Not really
complication, but tension. There's a temptation to be
distrustful of your partner. - Yes, but I'm talking
about for single people, there's complication there. I mean you're talking
about if you're married, then like this person
said, after marriage, then friendship suffers and
you can't keep close friends, keep close friendship
with the opposite sex. - Yeah, I was
commenting on that part. - Okay, so yes, you're right, it can be complicated if David had, although you do have really
close friends that are women, and it's not weird for me, yeah, but I suppose it could be, depending on if one friendship just really set out from the rest,
stood out from the rest as being just extra
super important to you, that could be hard for me. - Well, I'm not saying
it should cause tension, I think it should be the opposite. I think it should be, the assumption should be that
it's healthy and good and fine but I'm just, to her point, it's not just in the culture
that she's coming from, but I think here also,
people make undue tension out of that situation here as well. - Yet in America,
it's definitely allowed. It's definitely not
strange to have friends of the opposite sex after
you've become married. And it sounds like she might be saying it's really frowned upon in
her culture, but I do value, like we have a friend who
was one of my friends, now you've become really
close with her, Renee, and I love that you're so close with her because I love her too. But yeah, I think that
can be really special. I do think when you're single and you're friends with
someone of the opposite sex who's also single, if that
friendship gets really close, it can start to be complicated, people might be asking you a lot if there's something going on, and I just know from
personal experience that, at one point, at some point, you may need to have a conversation like, "Are we just friends, or
are we more than friends?" - Yeah, I see where
you're going with this. Yeah, that's over more into
what's romantic and what's not. - Actually, there
was a Seinfeld episode, do you remember, David,
where they were talking about can men and women be friends? - And I think it
was Seinfeld was saying, no, they can't be, they
can't be real friends. They can't be friends where
there's not any thought of romantic or physical
attraction happening. - Okay.
- That was Seinfeld's take. I would disagree, I think
you can have a friendship that exists totally
outside of the romantic and the physical. - I agree. - Okay, but let's
go back to the question how to build more supportive friendships? I mean I guess I would
say, if it's an issue of finding the people who you
want to be friends with in the first place, I mean, I know that this has been an issue for me, how do I meet people? When I think back on times when
it was easy to meet people, it's like college, where there
was this set place and time where you were seeing
people on a regular basis. How do you recreate that as
an adult no longer in school outside of work? I mean, you could take a class. That's always a popular
thing, take a class, something where you're gonna be seeing the same people over and over that you have a common interest with. -I think one of the things that I suggest to people is spend some time thinking about what are you most interested in, what are you most passionate about, what brings out the best side of you, your curious engaged self? And then go find that out
in the world somewhere where there are gonna be other people who are also interested in that. So in other words, sometimes
people think they should take up a whole new interest in a class, like I've never drawn before, so there's this part of my brain that goes I should go take a drawing class. Well actually, maybe
it's not the best idea. Go find something that
you know is gonna have you really, really energized and curious because I think then you're gonna be meeting other people who are
passionate about what you are, and it can make an easy bridge into some opening conversations. - That's a
good idea, a good point, go with something you
know you love already. Another thing is I have a friend, Cara, who just has the personality
for meeting people. She'll be on the subway and
strike up a conversation. She'll be checking out at a grocery store and she'll make friends
with people in line waiting to check out as well. And that's not my personality, but I mean, there's definitely something
to be said for being outgoing and just saying, "Oh hey,
isn't this funny how", whatever, starting a conversation. - Right, the
temptation is to think, well, I need to make some friends, I have to go find some big,
deep, meaningful friendships, when in reality the only way to do that is to be always aware that you're sort of currently looking for friends
and to strike up conversations 'cause we don't know who's
gonna actually be someone that we have a good connection with unless we actually are out there, talking to lots of different people. - Yeah, start small. And I think in the US, it is very appropriate to
strike up conversations. Strike up means to start, and they can be sort of out of the blue. Now we recently recorded a
podcast where I was talking about how that's my pet peeve. As an introvert, I just don't like having
these kinds of conversations, but don't let that stop you. If you're an extrovert where
you're trying to make friends, just go ahead and start up
conversations with people. You can comment on anything, something that's happening around you, or, "Man, it's so hot today, isn't it?" Or something like that. Or you could say to someone,
"Oh, I love your jacket." Compliment them in some way, engage them in conversation. Yeah and just, for me, that would really be pushing myself, but for some people, it's not. But okay, so we've talked about ways where you can try to start friendships. And we've established that
we think Americans are open to people striking
up conversation with them. - Yeah, for the most part. I mean I think also,
for better or for worse, for people like yourself
who are an introvert, it's also very appropriate
in this country to, the phrase is to blow people off, or to be just pretty disinterested if someone tries to strike
up a conversation with you. So you have to kind of know that half or maybe even more than that, that the conversations that you
try to strike up with people people are gonna be kind of disinterested, maybe not make eye contact with you, and quickly wrap up the conversation. And that's totally
appropriate socially as well. That's called giving a
subtle social cue that, "Actually, I don't really
want to talk right now, "thanks but no thanks on your
offer of a conversation." People aren't gonna come out and say, "Please stop talking to me"-- - Right, they'll just drop hints. - Drop hints, yeah. - And don't
let that discourage you, that just means that person
wasn't in the mood that day, but you can definitely keep
trying and you may find that you find someone who's also in the mood to strike up a conversation
or make a friend. Another thing is where you're living, try to explore the places around there. If you find a local restaurant
or coffee shop or park, go there to try to strike
up these conversations because then you're very likely
gonna be talking to people who live around you or have
the same interests as you. - that's happened to you and I a couple times during
the last year and a half, since stony's been born,
going to the play space and other areas around our house. When you see the same person
three or four times in a row, even without having said anything, you then kind of have an idea that, "Oh, this person is gonna
be here on a regular basis", and it makes it easy then
to go up and say hello 'cause it gives you a way
to say, "Hey, I noticed "you guys have been here a couple, "the same times I have",
is sort of a bridge into starting a conversation. - Now let's talk
about going up and saying hello if English isn't your native language and you sometimes have a hard
time understanding Americans. That could really stop
somebody from doing that, that could really be a mental block. - Yeah, I think that that's right. - And I guess
what I would say there is, don't assume that the person isn't willing to try to help you
figure out conversation. Some people may not be
interested in trying to help you understand them
trying to say things a couple different ways, but other people may be very interested, "Oh, who is this person
who's from somewhere else "who's chosen to come here?" So yeah, just keep trying, and
not every person you talk to is going to be open to who you are, but you'll probably find
somebody eventually who is. - And I think another tip too is when you initiate the conversation, it gives you the opportunity to go first, and what I mean by that is you can say something along the lines
of, "Hi, my name is David. "I've noticed that you
guys hang out here as well, "and so I thought I would come
over and introduce myself. "I live in the neighborhood." In other words, you can be
prepared to talk for 30 seconds or a minute about yourself in a way that you kind of have a chance to rehearse, versus going up to someone and saying, like as a native speaker, I can go up to someone and
just say, "Hi, I'm David. "So, what are you guys up to today?" Without worrying at all about comprehending the long
answer that might come back. But I think if you're a non-native speaker and you want to sort of avoid that, you can kind of talk for a little bit, versus opening with a quick question. - Yeah, you can sort of prepare your little introduction. So once you've started making, let's call them light friendships, people that you know,
you're friendly with, you know their name, how do you build them into more supportive friendships? - It's the big question, right? - Actually, that brings me to another question that came
in but I'd love to read now because I think that will become
part of this conversation. - Okay. - So this is a
question that came from one of my students in
Rachel's English Academy and she's from Germany and
now she lives in the US, and she has said to me, "I find that Americans are
really open to talking with me "if I'm in a really good
mood, and all I'm just, "all I'm saying are positive things, "life is good, life is
great, everything's good, "let's have fun and talk
about funny things", then people are really
willing to engage with her. But she said, "But if I bring up something "difficult in my life, "something that I'm having a problem with, "maybe financial difficulties
or looking for a job, "having a hard time finding a job, "or just a struggle in
general, when I bring that up", she says she finds that
people don't really seem to want to talk about it. She said of course there are a few times where she's found people
who are willing to discuss this with her, but in general, people seem to kind of turn away from that kind of conversation about the harder things in life, but the things that are
present for everybody. Were you gonna say something? - Right, I think
that when we take a risk or when we're vulnerable and
share a little bit of something that's real or something that's deep, she gives great examples there
about things that are hard, when we are with someone
who has been a casual friend and we take a risk and
share something that is really deep for us that's a real struggle, I think that's sort of how you figure out which of your casual friends are the relationships to really invest in and go for more depth with. I mean, just to put some numbers on it, I think if you have 10 casual friends and with each of those
10 people, at some point, you take a risk and really
share something about yourself, I would expect that probably two out of those 10 conversations would then go into a
deeper, fuller conversation. It's sort of like with
the initial conversation with someone in line at the grocery store, you strike up 10 of those conversations, probably only two of those conversations are gonna be more than
just a quick casual, "Hey, how's it going?" So I think it's difficult because when we're being vulnerable
and sharing things that are difficult, we really, we're putting ourself out there, so it's hard to be rejected, or maybe that's too strong
of a word, but maybe not. It's a feeling of rejection that comes up when the other person
doesn't want to engage. Let's talk eight out of 10 times, people aren't really
interested in the fact that you just shared something that you're really struggling with. The other side is if you
can think about it as from the positive side,
you've found two people with whom you can now
really invest deeply with, I think that's a pretty
compelling reason to say that the eight shutdowns,
shoot, what's it called? Being shot down are worth it. - Yeah, so okay,
a couple things here. One thing is how to build more supportive, deeper friendships. One way is to simply open
up more and tell more things about yourself,
including things that are hard, being more real, more vulnerable. And then David's talking about when you try to deepen a friendship by doing that, there's maybe a very good
chance that that person is not ready to have that
kind of a friendship with you and is just gonna kind of find
a way to change the subject of the conversation, but a
couple will likely be willing to be more receptive to that. So maybe what this woman
who submitted this comment, maybe the culture where she is in, it's more normal to talk about struggles with friendships that are
a little bit less deep. I mean for me, if I have a
casual acquaintance with someone and they start talking about something that they're struggling
with, this is awful, but part of me starts to wonder, "What do they, what are they
trying to get out of me? "What do they want me to do for them?" Isn't that horrible? Whereas if it's a good
friend, then I'm all ears, I'm listening, I'm engaged,
I want to help that person, I want to be there for that person, I want to help him or her
fix whatever is wrong, but if it's someone I don't really know and they start talking about
what's difficult in their life, I find that I don't really
know what to do with that and I start to think, "Why
are they telling me this?" Do you ever feel that? I mean how do you, I guess it depends on how you're defining an acquaintance, but David's looking at me
like he maybe doesn't agree. - I think, no,
not that I don't agree, I think that what's coming
up for you in those moments is your discomfort and you're not, your disinterest in
taking that relationship to a deeper place. I mean again, I would focus
on the two out of 10 times when it does feel right. I don't think we can spend a ton of time examining the eight out of 10, but I think your energy
is much better spent on those two out of 10 times
when somebody that is a casual friend to you opens
up and starts sharing with you and you're kind of like,
"Oh, wow, we're going there. "Okay, that's kind of,
I wasn't expecting this, "but all right, okay, I'm listening." - So one of the
things that she had said was she feels like Americans only want to talk about positive things, and I guess what we
are saying here is that that is probably true of acquaintances and people of a certain
level of friendship, but once you are spending
more time with somebody and sharing more personal
things with somebody and it's reciprocated, then
that person will, I think, definitely be willing to
talk about your struggles. I mean, Americans don't
shy away from that, they just I think save
that kind of conversation for someone that they
have a very particular kind of relationship with. And so that conversation
happening outside of a friendship that they feel is very deep
probably feels awkward, and that I think might be where this person is feeling shut down. - Yeah, and I think
that you're right that that is, I'm sure it's lodged in
cultural norms and is different from place to place,
from culture to culture. But yeah I think that
that's exactly right. And part of what's hard is
that there's no way to know where you are sort of with another person without testing it out. - Right, and then
you either get shut down or the person's interested. - Yeah, you can try to
assess and assess and assess in your mind like, "Well,
they said this last time, "and I almost said
something, but then I didn't, "and I wonder if", then you can go around
and around in circles for hours and hours about whether or not this person is someone who
you should take a risk with, or you can just go for it, and sort of, that takes major courage, but if you can get yourself to know that, "Hey, you know what? "Eight out of 10 times it may not go well, "but it's worth it because
those two out of 10 times "where it does go well are
really, really worth it to me, "so I'm gonna go for it." - Yeah, that's
where you start building the real friendships. And actually I think one way
that you can test the waters, that is try something out with somebody, let's say you've met them a couple times, they're an acquaintance, you
maybe consider them a friend. Rather than opening up about yourself and saying something that
you're struggling with or something that's hard
for you to deal with, you can ask that person a question, and then see how they respond. Do they go deep with their answer? Or do they just sort of
give a light surface answer? And that's a clue, "Okay,
this person isn't ready "to talk about these more
important things with me, "or this person is ready." - It's a really good point, that thought had crossed my mind earlier, and I'm glad you brought
it up, yeah, absolutely. So what would be an
example of a kind of question that someone could ask an
acquaintance/light new friend in order to see, "Oh, how can I try to take
this friendship deeper?" -Yeah, I think a couple things, I mean, one of the things is to say something that you
noticed and ask about it, "I noticed last time we were hanging out "that you didn't mention
how your husband's doing. "Is everything going okay with you guys?" - Or even just,
"How is blank going?" Even if you have no idea if
it's gonna involve a good answer or a bad answer, just asking, "Oh, how are things going with the kids? "Or how are things going at work?" - Yeah, anything
that anybody says, you can follow up with,
"And how is that for you? "How's that going for you?" - And then from there
depending on their answer, you might be able to draw them out more, see if they're interested
in being drawn out more and if they are, then that
conversation will grow, and probably that friendship will grow. I read an article several months ago now about a bunch of high schools that were accepting one year, or one to two year international
students from China, the article was focusing
on Chinese students studying in American high schools. And the article was talking
about how hard it is for these Chinese students
to make friends in America and I was like, "Gosh, of course." And part of it is in a
high school situation, kids are using so much slang
that these students are coming who studied English formally, and they don't understand the
general idea of conversation, like they just can't keep up. And I think that would be incredibly hard. And I think if you're in that situation, your only hope is to ask what people mean, and probably be doing that a lot. And for a lot of people,
that might be annoying, and that might turn them
off, but for a few people, they'll be willing to answer you, and then those are
people with whom I think you're gonna start to develop
a more real friendship. What do you think, David?
- Right, exactly. Yeah, that's exactly right. - So really making friends and turning acquaintances
into deeper friends is hugely an issue of
putting yourself out there. That means taking a
risk, being vulnerable. David, talk to me about
some of your best friends about how you met those people, where that friendship was nurtured? - Sure, so one
of my closest friends I met in high school, so in ninth grade, and we had class together, and we just, I think the first time that we spoke was during an assignment
in the Spanish class and we hit it off. We ended up both playing basketball, and that was the start of our friendship that's still really close to this day. - So a friendship
that carried through from childhood? - Yeah, mm-hmm,
yeah, we would have been, how old are you in ninth grade? 15, I guess. - Yeah, 14 maybe. Okay so--
- So that's one extreme. That's an example of a childhood friend. And then I guess sort of on the other end would be someone that I met
about seven years ago at work who just from being at work together and having conversations
there, realizing that, "Oh, you know what? "We really get along well." And so then he and I started to hang out outside of work sometimes, and that ended up becoming
a very close friendship. I was the officiant at their wedding, and we are extremely close
now and see each other a lot, even though we no longer work together, so that's someone who I met later in life who has become a very
close friend as well. - And then what about Adrian? You have a really interesting story about how you met him, don't you? - Yeah, so we were,
we had a mutual friend, and when Adrian and I met, we started to do some
of the typical questions back and forth about,
"So, what do you do?" And we realized that we have both done restorative justice work,
which is a particular kind of intervention with people in conflict, and then we realized that we
have both done work around domestic violence and we
were both politically engaged in sort of really similar ways, and just sort of had this story that kept mirroring each
other at every turn. And this is another example of how you can really quickly
become close with someone when you realize you have a bunch of overlapping life experiences and just can hit it off right away because of that. - I had heard
the story that you guys were at a bar and you just randomly met, but you actually were there because you had a friend in common. - Yeah, mm-hmm.
- Okay. But still, you strike up this conversation and you find you have all these
things in common and then-- - Right, right. - He's moved away now, but he just visited us last week, it was great to see him. - That was great. - Let me see if I can talk about some of my friendships that I have. One of them, well, I definitely
have friends from college. That's just where I met, actually, my mom has made this comment. Throughout my life, I
tend to have entered into or built around me these
groups of six to eight women and that have become really close and supportive communities. I had that in high school and growing up, I had the same thing in college, and then living in New York, I had developed this
awesome group of women too. And so that's been lucky, and the growing up and the
college, that's obvious, 'cause you're together
all the time in school. And in New York, we all met 'cause we were connected through various people, and I think New York is the kind of place where there are so many people that it's actually easy to feel lost. And so I think when you're going there, you often reach out, who do
you know, who do you know, who knows people in New York? And very often there are people
who know people in New York, and so that can kind
of build a web for you when you go somewhere, and that
definitely happened for me. And one of my other really close friends who's been in a bunch of
Rachel's English videos, her name is Lynne, but
we all call her Beads. I met her from a singing gig, and I think when you're in the arts and theater of the performing arts, you can make really,
really amazing friends because obviously you
have the same passion. And then when you're in a production, you are just hanging out
together all the time. - I would also say
that when you're performing, you're constantly in a
state of vulnerability alongside people too. - And that's interesting. Yeah, and people know
what you're going through, like if you get sick. As a singer, if you get a cold,
your other friends are like, "Oh, it's fine, it's a
cold, you'll be okay", whereas another singer knows,
"Oh my gosh, that's gonna, "yeah I'm gonna have to figure
out how to work through that, "that's gonna be tough." Yeah. Well David, it's been really interesting discussing friendships with
you and just thinking about how many times you might
kind of reach out to somebody and have them not be interested before you find someone where you can develop something more. And I'm really curious,
is this very different from what people out there experience in their own home culture,
or is it pretty similar? I wish that I had the chance
to talk with other people from other cultures about this. But thank you guys so much for listening and thank you David for being
here and sharing some about your life, your background, and your perspective on friendships. - Yeah, you're
welcome, that was really fun. - And thanks for the
questions that got written in. Guys, if you would like to
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you think about the podcast. That's it for this week,
we'll be back again next week. Can't wait to talk to you guys. See you soon. - Bye, guys.
