Advaita vs Dvaita Vedanta Swami Sarvapriyananda

to the october session of sahitha o alochana for people joining us for the first time it's a monthly session uh discussion session a discussion excuse me discussion forum sponsored by ananda mandir of new jersey it meets every month and discusses various topics carefully chosen from a wide range of subjects including philosophy science mathematics business economics current affairs sports and anything and everything that is worth discussing i am subrata bahama a co-chair and container of the group with me are two of my fellow members of the group including amitav bhakti co-chair of the group and gautam goswami a valued group member this evening we will be presenting to you a very illuminating talk on hindu philosophy and the topic is versus advaita vedanta and we have a very distinguished speaker swami sabha pianandaji swami swamiji is a renowned hindu monk a famous international speaker on vedanta philosophy and is the minister and spiritual leader of the vedanta society of new york he is also a negro fellow of for 2019-2020 at the harvard divinity school prior to this assignment he served as the assistant minister of the vedanta society of southern california for uh swamiji joined the ram krishna mart and mission in 1994 and received sannas in 2004 before being posted to the vedantist society of southern california's hollywood temple swamiji swar served as an acharya of the monastic probationers training center at the belur mall he also has served various um you know served at various capacities of ram krishna martin mission um including the vice principal of david david higher teacher education college of belgium art and the first register of the vivekananda university at bellarmine before we get to the session please allow me to review the format and the structure of today's talk first swamiji swamiji will present his thoughts on dweta and advaitha vedanta that will be followed by a panelist who would present a few questions selected questions to swamiji on the same topic finally selected questions from the participants will be answered by some will be presented by the panelists to the two swamiji um and these would need to be posted in the chat room of of zoom and we will select the question based on the time availability and present to swamiji we plan to complete the whole session within an hour and half which is about 9 p.m so it starts now and it ends at 9 00 pm without further ado we present the honorable swami sarva i'll start with a chant om asato [Music] [Music] lead us from the unreal to the real lead us from darkness unto light lead us from death to immortality home peace peace peace good evening everybody i would like to thank uh anunda mandir and especially the the alohana shawa uh the organizers for inviting me to this uh evening's program to this evening's discussion so i'll make my presentation first and then we will go into the q a so today's discussion on advaita and dwayth is based on the upanishads these upanishads are texts which are found in the vedas the vedas we know are the central text the original and foundational texts of hinduism so in these vedas which are voluminous scattered here and there you find these smaller texts called the upanishads upanishads are the final the highest the ultimate teachings the philosophical and spiritual teachings of the vedas are found concentrated in these upanishads so vedanta which literally means the anta or end of the vedas it's not physically the end of the vedas because the upanishads are found scattered in different places sometimes at the end of the vedic sangeeta sometimes in the middle some so what it means anta means the highest of final teachings in sanskrit siddhanta the final conclusion of the vedas is found in the upanishads so that's why it's called vedanta now um these upanishads are highly regarded in fact schopenhauer a great german philosopher was a fan and early fan european fan of the upanishads he said that i consider no study in the world as profitable as the study of these open issues he in fact got a translation of a latin translation of a persian translation of the sanskrit original he used to read that it is said that he used to read it every day a few pages every day before going to sleep now how did it come to his hands it's very interesting that the journey of the upanishads to the west that's the name of a book written by swami tathagata who was my predecessor here at the vedanta society of new york he was in new york for nearly 40 years and among his many books is this very fascinating book which talks about the journey of the upanishads from india to the west um so you know darashuko the mughal prince he translated the upanishads into persian and the persian text came to the hands of this young french endologist ankitil duperon who was looking for original zoroastrian text but he got this and he translated it into latin and that went into the hands of schopenhauer and so on and that's how it came into western thought um a very contemporary reference to the upanishads is found in this book waking dreaming being it's a book written by evan thompson who is a professor of philosophy of the university of british columbia so evan thompson this is a very recent book and he says consciousness studies which is a hot subject these days did not begin today did not begin in recent times it's actually very very ancient and it begins with the ubernations and then he makes a very remarkable comment on the upanishads he quotes his own father william irwin thompson who was also a philosopher who says upanishads is a watershed is a watershed in the evolution of consciousness instead of being ethnocentric and dividing all global history between bc and ad we should really divide it between before upanishad and after upanishad b who and au because the sophisticated psychology of consciousness in the upanishads represents a quantum leap represents a quantum leap forward in human development so what a uh remarkable encomium for the upanishads says that they're so important that human history should be divided into before upanishad and after upanishad now these upanishads are the philosophical foundation of hinduism the most well-known text is not the openishas with the bhagavad-gita but the bhagavad-gita is actually nothing other than the essence of the upanishads one verse in praise of the bhagavad-gita says that the upanishads are the cows and the bhagavad-gita is the milk of those cows and krishna is the milk man and arjuna is the cow who drinks that milk and so on in that verse so and there is another text which is important to our discussion which is called the brahma sutras there's one badarai and abyasa who wrote in a sutra form 555 aphorisms which embodies the philosophy of vedanta so upanishads are the source text foundational in fact by vedanta you mean upanishad that's it and associated with that bhagavad-gita and these brahma-sutras these brahma-sutras actually take up the philosophical issues the questions the doubts which come to our mind when we read the upanishads upanishads are more mystical and political but the questions which arise those are dealt with in the brahma-sutras why the brahma-sutras are important to today's discussion is this whole question of advaita and advaita will translate as non-dualism and dwight as dualism so a non-dual vedanta and dualistic vedanta all this comes from this text the brahma sutra not exactly from this text but from the commentaries on this text about 1400 years ago by modern dating adi shankaracharya he wrote commentaries called bhasha of course all of it in sanskrit explaining the upanishads he selected 10 by some accounts 11 upanishads and he explained those in detail in his commentaries and he commented upon the bhagavad-gita but crucially upon the brahma-sutras and these commentaries later on commentaries were written by other acharyas ramanujacharya madhvachary others who came after shankaracharya these commentaries on the brahmasutras are crucial for today's discussion why because it is the kind of interpretation the framework the paradigm which was set forth in these different commentaries that gave rise to different schools of vedanta the different schools of vedanta are based on the commentaries of the upanishads bhagavad-gita and crucially brahma-sutra so shankaracharya interpreted upanishads bhagavad-gita and brahma-sutra together these three are actually known as prasthanathari the triple canon the triple foundation canonical texts of vedanta his interpretation his commentary on that frog forms the basis of the school of vedanta we call non-dual vedanta and the next person about 200 years after shankaracharya became ramanujacharya who gave a very different interpretation of the same texts and his commentary is bhashya on the brahma-sutras called sribasya where he openly and powerfully disputes shankaracharya's commentary and sets up his own interpretation of vedanta of the upanishads which came to be known as vishishta dwaita vedanta about again 200 to 250 years after uh ramanujacharya came maduracharya who disputes both earlier interpretations and gives his own interpretation of vedanta um on his the his bhashya commentary on the brahma sutras so madhvacharya's commentary is known as the purnapratyam ramanujachari's commentary is known as the shri bharsa shankaracharya's commentary is imam sabasya madhuacharya's commentary forms the philosophical basis of the school known as dualistic vedanta and that was not the end of it around that time they came others for example um whose commentary on the brahmasutra forms the basis of another yet another school of vedanta called shuddha dwaytha then comes nimbarkacharya around the same time whose commentary on the brahmasutras known as the vedanta parish balabachari's commentary is called his commentary nimba kachori's commentary on the brahmasutras forms the philosophical basis of yet another school of vedanta called there is another one which which with which we are actually familiar uh as bengalis we know of the gaudiya vaishnava sampradaya sri chaitanya so his followers not he himself but his followers systematized gaurya vishnarism which is formed around the life and teachings of sri chaitanya mahaprabhu into another school of vedanta called the achintia school there was baladeva who wrote a commentary called govindavasya on the same brahmasutras so if somebody is interested i will make a clear division between shankaracharya's non-dual vedanta and the rest why though they often style themselves as a dwaiter should dweta dwayta dwayta vishishta dwayta only ramanuja is unashamedly dwita but all the others they're some form of non-dualism but actually practically speaking they are dualistic at this point i'll make a crucial point a differentiation what is it all about this is the textual background i'm giving you the textual background but practically what does it come or theoretically what does it come to where is the crucial difference jiva jagat ishwara means god jiva means sentient beings like us jagat is this material universe god sentient beings material universe this triangle those who consider this triangle to be real and distinct god is different from us we are different from each other and the world material world is an independent different reality those who consider these differences to be real these entities to be real and different from each other they uh are dualistic there is only one school which says these are not different there is only one reality all differences are illusory brahmas all the rest are actually dualistic they will not admit it it should be a fun form of advaitha some will say yes we are dwayta but practically speaking the dualistic because they admit none of them will openly admit i and god are one none of them will say that they will say there is a difference between the individual being and god which cannot be erased there is a fundamental difference and one practical difference between the two shankara's advaitha keeps gyana knowledge as its main plank as its main methodology whereas all the other schools without distinction they are all bhakti schools devotional schools vishishta dwighta dwight vedanta dwight advaita veda all give without any uh without any hesitation give primacy to bhakti devotion those who are interested this book is very good for the bhakti schools of vedanta swami tapasyanandaji this is published from sonita syanji was a very senior monk of our order a vice president of our audience published from madras ramakrishna mutt madras so it gives you a very good outline of the lives of ramanujacharya and separate chapters on their philosophies so all these schools are in a brief form if you want it in one chapter but without being oversimplified this is a really good book i've seen it being quoted in academic papers also so now what i'll do now is let me speak of dwight vedanta first instead of speaking in general about dualism let me speak let me take because the topic is let me focus on the school of dway vedanta so i'm particularly focusing on madwa chadya remember these are competing philosophies none of them say oh i am teaching advaita i am teaching dwita no they all say we are teaching vedanta shankaracharya says ankara that's not right i am teaching you vedanta so vedanta this is the interpretation of vedas we are completing interpretations um so i'm going to focus on one school duita vedanta that also tallies with our the subject and it's the most um uncompromisingly uh uh unhesitatingly dualistic school of madhvacharya so what does this dwight vedanta say see there is a little problem in speaking in this way because chronologically dwight vedanta comes later after advaita vedanta itself in criticism of advaita vedanta so uh we are actually reversing the time water why am i doing it for psychological reasons because it's the what i'm going to say what bhadra charia says deuteronomy is actually very familiar to all of us it is the kind of religion people are used to god faith devotion belief rituals worship all of these are part of dwight vedanta is quite radical so first i'll talk about dwight avedanta what does it say about religion and philosophy and world view and then move on to advaita vedanta which shankaracharya at least is chronologically prior another point to note just worth mentioning none of these figures claim to be the founders of the schools they are very humble that way all of them say these are existing traditions we are only writing commentaries but there's no doubt each of them even if these are existing tradition each of them represents a landmark a point of inflection in those traditions all right dwight vedanta what does it say briefly and quickly it says there is one ultimate reality called brahman god they use the name vishnu so vishnu is the ultimate reality everything else is a dependent reality absolutely independent um omnipresent omniscient omnipotent all-powerful present everywhere and all-knowing full of all glorious qualities and a personal god somebody who can listen to your prayers and grant your prayers and all that and this god is vishnu vishnu is the highest so you can clearly see this firmly belongs in the vaishnava camp what about the rest of us we are all we are all real but we are paratantra we depend we are not independent we are entirely dependent on vishnu we means who sentient beings like us we are all jivatma jiva in short jiva jivatma is a spark of consciousness associated with the subtle bodies sukhmasharira mind and intellect and prana which who inhabit physical bodies like this so there is a material world provided by prakriti this jagat this material universe is made by the source of material universe is called prakriti prakriti literally means nature material nature and they improv the entire physical universe including our minds also they're all generated by prakriti and we are like sparks of consciousness sparks of awareness this jivatma and we are associated with particular subtle bodies in association with these subtle bodies we are called physical bodies die they are born they age and they die but we like bits of software going from computer to computer device to device we go from body to body could be animal bodies could be human bodies could be devata bodies higher bodies lower bodies we go through this cycle of life why do we go through this because of our karma we its cause and effect actions have consequences so we are involved in samsara this world and we have desires we are attached to this world we want things in this world we want happiness we want to avoid misery and then we engage in what is called sakama karma actions with desires everybody does it so human beings are special because we have free will we we decide and so this generates karma actions generate consequences and these consequences build up they are they are accumulated over lifetimes and these consequences give rise to pleasure and pain and to experience these pleasure and pain we need bodies body after body life after life goes on so this is the uh this explains the cycle of birth and death bodies come and go but the subtle body jivatma consciousness plus the subtle body this this trans-migrates janmantara what this idea of many lives so this is something that is common to all indian systems all indian thought hindu all all vedic thought systems all non-vedic thought systems including the jainas and the buddhists and down to a more modern thought system like the sikhs all of them all indic thought systems accept multiple lives transmigration from birth to birth and karma i remember one swami in hindi he said um karma or janmantar the law of karma and this multiple birds these are very profound philosophies why in spite of vast differences in different um systems of hindu philosophy just like we see dwight and advaita vast differences uh between hinduism and say buddhism buddhism does not accept god buddhism does not even accept a permanent soul jivatma no no jivatma no paramatma but they all accept multiple lives and karma karma and multiple lives are accepted across the board except the charvaka materialist everybody else accepts this um so this is the explanation for this multiple lives now what is what is the destiny of what is our destiny destiny is after many lifetimes due to ethical living following dharma avoiding what is nishida privated sinful and doing what is vidhya what is recommended following dharma one becomes ethical and develops a kind of detachment to worldly life and then the existence of god vishnu is seems more probable there is an interest in spiritual matters and by the grace of god by good karma one comes across the teachings obviously the teachings of advaita vedanta and one gets a guru and a teacher and one is told that there is an ultimate reality called vishnu we are all dependent on vishnu you are not a body you're not a mind you're actually a trans migrating jiva so then this individual undergoes a series of exercises bhakti exercises what are these exercises first of all ethical living then devotion to god then this how what is this devotion to god like let me just quote from madhubacharya is a great devotee of the bhagavata purana so he often quotes from that what is bhakti so this ethical person who is now being taught bhakti by the teachers of dwight vedanta what what does he learn these are the different forms of bhakti you find in the bhagavata dharma shravanam you hear the glories of krishna for example the avatar of vishnu you hear the about the different avatars of vishnu you sing the glory you chant the vishnu sastranam so shravanam kitanam vishnu samaranam you recall the glorious form of vishnu you recall the leela of vishnu in the different one aspect of one father an aspect of vishnu is this world and the vishnu is the creator of this world is the lord of this world so even worship of vishnu in the divine aspect in the temples or as manifested in this world you worship human you serve human beings also as a service of god you know karma yoga as taught by krishna to arjuna that also is is bhakti archanam actual worship of the deity in the temple vandanam um repetition of the um you know or salutation of the holy presence dasiam i am the servant of the lord regarding yourself as a servant of the lord like hanuman or sakyam the lord being more intimate with the lord like uddhava or arjuna so these are different stages of bhakti finally vedanam always continuous surrender to the lord this is from bhagavatam madhvacharya himself is given how bhakti starts mahatma gana puru first of all by hearing about the glory of islam the glory of god one gets bhakti a devotion that there is a faith such a thing exists that is this is amazing i must be devoted i must love and worship the lord so out of all of the magnificence of god comes bhakti so sudhir it increases this continuous flow of love towards god is called bhakti and he mentions by that bhakti alone one gets mukti liberation what will liberation be like liberation is as bhakti intensifies you get the grace of vishnu by the grace of vishnu all your accumulated karma by which you are being whirled around in the merry-go-round of samsara that accumulated karma is wiped out one is free of karma after the end of this life one ascends to the plane of vishnu to vaikuntha and there are different kinds of mukti in store for you depending upon the intensity of your bhakti there is um salukia salukia means you remain in the same loka as vishnu you will go to vaishnavantan stay you are close to the divine presence and these are all eternal once you go there it's forever and then there is then you attain to a divine form like vishnu but due to continuous meditation on the glories of vishnu um you become one with the form of vishnu there is a fifth one called sarchti but we will not go into that because that's there is some controversy about that so these are different forms now um in advaita when you say become i am god become one with god that is complete anathema and why would you want to become one with god and lose your own individuality if you lose your individuality you cannot enjoy the presence of god charity and his followers will argue you must retain your individuality otherwise if you lose your individuality just like death mukti cannot be death mukti cannot be annihilation so you will remain with your individuality but enjoy the divine presence forever and ever so that is the idea what is the relationship between knowledge and bhakti so in advaita vedanta vedanta knowledge is also important karma is important knowledge is important bhakti is of course most important meditation is also important knowledge leads to more bhakti in in vaita vedanta madhvacharya very interesting the circular relationship between bhakti and gana once you have some faith in god bhaktya by that faith you attain to gyanam what is the means knowledge what kind of knowledge that i am not the boy i'm not this physical body i am a spark of consciousness i am jiva that is one second more important higher than me higher than the jivaatma there is this paramatma a supreme self an oversoul in aurobindian language this which is vishnu and my relation to that it's different from me i'm not that it's different from me my relation to vishnu is bhakti so by this your bhakti will increase by that increased bhakti enlightenment will come you will be graced with the vision of vishnu you will realize that vishnu is real and that is enlightenment you realize your permanent relationship with vishnu vishnu is the lord i am the servant or vishnu is my friend i am sakha what that relationship leads to mukti mukti mukti means freedom from the cycle of birth and death and ever eternally living in heaven by kunta in the presence of god and then what will happen after mukti will you lose bhakti of course not tata bhakti and then bhakti will increase even more and that bhakti which you eternally have for vishnu that is the nature of great bliss and so forever you will remain with vishnu enjoying great bliss so very very good conclusion so that is over simplifying the madwa system is very complex very sophisticated probably more complex than advaita vedanta many people think that advaita is all rationality and reason and dualistic religion or others are maybe more based on faith no in fact the best politicians some of the greatest positions that ancient and medieval india has produced but actually the madhubala additions who spent a lot of their energy attacking the advaita vedanta position um one thing that the madhya magicians do they are very aggressive one of the things that a guru does in the madhwa tradition is not only teaches you about vishnu and the tibia is the is the swatantra you are all paratantra and all this this is taught but also takes care to refute all other systems materialists and nayakas and buddha and sankhya and advaita especially special target of their venom is advaita that is refuted so you may say why so much aggression so they said they are not out of ill will once faith can only be certain when you have when you realize that this is the correct philosophy and the others are wrong then only your faith will be honest on a solid foundation so that makes them quite aggressive debaters actually the duit avedan things it led up after madhuacharya there was about a period of three four hundred years of intense polemics attacks and counter attacks between advaita and dwighta the dwight ins trying to prove advaita to be a false doctrine and advantage defending advaita vedanta so the advantage is many wonderful texts were produced indian philosophy really flowered there are two periods in which indian philosophy flowered one is the nearly thousand year debate between hindus and buddhists on one side the buddhists yogachara shunyavadins bhai bharshikas different buddhist schools on the other side nayaka's sankhyams baishikas urvam imam sakas the and advaitins later on so it led to great flowering of indian philosophy and the next was an internal debate between advaita that also led to great flowering of indian philosophy this you know this attacking others it reminds me in the world parliament of religions in toronto a couple of years back i attended this session by an evangelical christian so generally they are not at all in favor of parliament of religions and harmony between religions the idea is we are right and everybody else is wrong so one evangelical teacher he came to the parliament religions so that session was really crowded everybody wanted to hear what he had to say so he said what we are interested in is in evangelical christianity is that we want to lead a life according to jesus christ and tell everybody else that they are wrong they have to be brought to this also so i asked a question it's a wonderful thing if you want to lead a life according to the teachings of jesus christ but why is it equally important to tell others that they are wrong so he said no no no this is what uh this is very important to us that this is the only right thing and others have to be told that what they are doing is wrong and they have to come to this path so the madwas are something like that that this path is correct and so but the mothers are not fanatical in that sense they use reason and debate so to engage with other systems of philosophy okay basically this is a dualism this is out and out dualism because they talk about this is crucial punjab five differences madhva philosophy talks about five differences what are these five differences on which they are uncompromising remember jiva is the material world madhya philosophy says there are five differences here permanent differences cannot be negotiated ishwara and jiva between vishnu and you difference one difference second ishvara between ishwara and this world jagat or they will say in sentient world between ishvara and jada and then the third one is between jiva and jada between us you and the table you're sitting on i and the computer i'm handling we are different the computer is jada i am caitanya then fourth between jiva and jiva you are different i am different each jiva is different and fifth last between jada and jada the table is different and the computer sitting on the table is different from the table so each entity is different from the other and these pancha bheda five differences they hold on to this is why it is firmly dualistic dualistic means not just two plural two and more plural entities are there millions of entities and they're distinct from each other not advaitans or brahman alone is real every all differences are illusory no these are absolutely one good way of understanding madhuva vedanta is the way we understand and see the world perceive the world and deal with the world common sense says it is real that's what that's the truth you find people are different from you right yes so that's true they are different from you god is there you will feel that god is different from you yes so that's the truth god is different from you so it's a very common sense affirming philosophy um so i'll that's all i will say about madhva vedanta and stop here this is the prototype god is real have faith on god you surrender to god worship god by the grace of god you will be liberated in liberation there is no more suffering no more samsara cycle of birth and death is at an end finished now advaitha i'll make a few remarks and then stop and we'll discuss it advaita vedanta is radically different very very different all the other schools i mentioned you'll see if you read them they are they have interesting differences but they are basically this pattern guard and devotion to god finished advaita this triangle you're talking about this is only apparently different underlying all of them there is oneness not even unity there is only one reality brahman alone is real there is an ultimate reality called brahman jagat mithya the entire universe is an appearance appearance of what appearance of brahman you see when something is called an appearance what it means is you are missing some fundamental reality that's why that fundamental reality is appearing in this way you don't know the rope that's why the rope is appearing as a snake to you you thought it was a snake it's not a snake it's a it's a rope why did it why did i make this mistake or some mistake a mistake is made when the reality is not known the reality is that it's a row the reality is that it is non-dual there is no difference there is only one non-dual reality called drama brahman and the world this world full of dualities you dualist who are talking about pancha veda five differences no doubt you experience them but that does not mean they are real they are appearances of one underlying fundamental reality called brahman and what are you what are we are we appearances are we false are we illusions no jiva brahmdhevan opera you are brahman so brahmas this is in the upanishads you get these statements which advaitha calls mahavakyas profound statements they are the succinct essential teachings of the upanishads very well known from the openish that thou art you who think you are an individual jiva in reality you are brahman the the ultimate reality of this entire universe aham brahmasmi i am brahman from the brahadhar nakupani very radical statement i am not this diva body mind and little spark of consciousness no no no i am brahmana i am not the body not the mind i am brahmana so shankaracharya sings i'm not the mind not the intellect i am what am i i am the rupa hashibo hum brahman whatever you call it shiva vishnu i am one with that so aham brahma asks me in the mandu kyopanishad you find ayama brahma this very self is brahman ultimate reality and in the upanishad you find pragyanam brahma this very awareness you have is not a spark of consciousness it is the ultimate reality it's an ocean of consciousness how one may ask can advaita vedanta deny our experience of multiplicity one reality how can you say that because we experience multiplicity so it's very it sounds too radical so what advaita veda this is subtle what they do is nobody can deny experience that i am seeing you who can deny that we see what we are experiencing neither dwaita no philosopher in the world will deny what we experience but the difference is this is what you are seeing is real this is it and then you add one more thing called god you are not seeing it take it on faith advaitavadi says what you are seeing i am not denying that you are seeing it but what you are seeing is it real so advaita vedanta makes a cleavage a separation between reality and experience that what you what appears is not real what is real never appears that is bradley the english idealist philosopher what appears is not real what is real never appears so it's a play on the uh english two meanings of the english word appearance appearance means what you experience is an appearance reference also means falsity he appears to be a nice person means he's not really a nice person so appears is not real when ashankaracharya claims what you are experiencing i do not deny you are experiencing body mind and world but it is not real it is like the rope snake what you are experiencing is not the reality and the reality is not something that you are experiencing now what advaita vedanta wants to say is quite radical advaitha vedanta talks about the reality of brahman which is not separated from you by space or time or object let me explain that quickly in advaita vedanta spirituality is not a journey in space you what is spirituality in dwight vedanta from this world you will go to vaikuntha and live in bliss in the company of vishnu advaita vedanta says no no no not from here to there here itself and everywhere is that same brahman right now not in time after sadhana after getting the blessings of grace of vishnu you will be liberated then only you will experience the company of vishnu the proximity of vishnu no no no here and now right now right here and object difference in object i am something god is something else this is dualistic religion i am something and god is something else you are very clear you are not god this is this is blasphemy for a dualist um but advaita vedanta says no the ultimate reality is you tattoo mercy so in in advaith it is not spirituality is not a journey from one place to another it's not a journey from um one time to another time from now to some time else it is not a journey from myself to something else rather it's a journey it's a journey from then what is the journey in advaitha it's a journey from ignorance to knowledge see in advaita vedanta the problem is not that you do not have bhakti you do not have faith you are not meditating you do not believe in god no no no those are all good things to do but that's not the real problem the real problem is you do not know knowledge and lack of knowledge lack of knowledge ignorance in advaith is not just lack of knowledge it's also a positive force ignorance is a force which occludes the reality there is a reality here and we say this brahman you are talking about you are saying that it is here but i don't experience it i don't know i don't feel it advaitan will say this right now there itself you said i don't know that is ignorance that ignorance is called avidya in or agyana in advaita vedanta and this agana in its ultimate nature is called maya it's brahman because of maya amaya has two powers it hides the reality from us and it projects the reality as this world so like we do not know it's a rope the rope nature is hidden from us not only hidden it is now projected as a snake so that's the very nature of error advaita vedanta says we are making a huge huge mistake and that mistake has to be corrected mistake is made of ignorance and it has to be corrected by knowledge it's all very nice to say can you demonstrate it see the dwight vedanta is no problem about demonstration because from the very beginning we'll say you have to have faith and remember madhvacharya said bhakti anam first you have devotion faith then only that knowledge will work but in advaita vedanta you're told not faith and not faith it's rather knowledge so tell me what knowledge how can i react in advaita vedanta vedanta the teacher can say wait have faith worship god have faith in god one day you will go to vaikuntha and you will see for yourself and if you don't see after death then you can't catch it because by the time the teacher is also gone so in advaita vedanta however the problem is if you are claiming here and now and right now you are brahmana and you don't at all feel that you can demand proof you can legitimately ask show me if it is here if it is now if i am brahman can you show me that and advaita makes this radical claim that yes we can show you now that you are brahman and the moment you realize that you are actually free of all suffering and we released from the cycle of birth and death and so on remember in advaita we run to the cycle of birth and death this jiva nature this world even god nature the nature of ishwara these are all appearances ultimately only one brahman is true so what advaita vedanta does is investigation it is not just faith it is not just meditation not just rituals those things are approved up in advaita vedanta but that's not the point they are all helpful what has to be done which are in one word the method of dwight of bhakti devotion faith in advaita vedanta it is investigation a philosophical investigation into our nature how there are very clear procedures for it for example notice that whatever you experience is different from you the eyes are seeing the computer computer is clearly different from the eyes eyes are the seer computer is the same now notice the eyes themselves are seen eyes are experienced your mind is the experiencer i am my eyes are open my eyes are closed i can see well i can't see well the eyes the auditory system the entire sensory system the whole body is experienced it's an object drishya you are the drastic the mind the rashtra and rishi are separate the mind itself is observed when you are happy do you not feel happy do you not know that you are happy of course who else will know that you are happy when you feel pain when you feel joy when you feel desire when you feel tiredness sickness all those thoughts in the mind the movements of the mind are experienced by you therefore you the experience of drastica of the mind must be different from the mind this dressed up the mind is never experienced as an object it is ever the sakshi ever the witness that pure subject witness consciousness is the reality to which appears this entire universe this body mind then they go further what is the relationship between the pure consciousness of the sakshi and what it experiences because if you stop at this point it's not advaita it's still multiplicity consciousness and all its objects still multiplicity this is sankhya advaita velanta goes further you the consciousness and the entire universe which appears to you this objective universe what is the relation are they different or are they one and the same they appear to be different to you different from you but notice they all appear in you in your consciousness just like they use the dream example in the dream you are there in your own dream and you experience people and events there is a space and a time and certain activity is going on and yet when you wake up you realize both the subject and the objects in the dream when nothing but you the dreamer the enormous variety experience in the dream with all its dynamism everything was nothing but the dreaming mind similarly in one consciousness because of maya appears this diversity of the universe and you are that consciousness you must realize it directly by this method of inquiry another method is panchakosha the physical body the vital body the mental body the intellectual body the causal body all of these are available to us right now but what experiences and witnesses all of them that witness consciousness or another method in the mandukya waking dreaming deep sleep our entire world of waking our entire dream world and the blankness of nothingness of deep sleep all of them come and go you own up you say that i was awake i dreamt i was in deep sleep i did not know anything who is the one what is the one to which all of these appear and disappear you are that even if your precious vishnu appears to you remember it will appear to you the consciousness ultimately everything has to appear even if you feel i have attained mukti i have gone to my kunta what does it depend on it depends on you the consciousness if you do not testify to mukti where is mukti if you do not testify to vaikunt or vishnu where is vaikuntar vishnu so what is that consciousness which experiences bondage which experiences liberation that consciousness you are tattvaramasi that is the reality of the universe everything else depends on that you are brahman and brahman is you when you say you are brahman it means you are not the body not the mind you are drama when you say brahman is you that means brahman is actually other than you the real you there is no vishnu shiva durga whatever this is very radical shocking one of monk senior monks said he had gone to a very senior monk at that time premise maharaja who was mashaarada's disciple so this senior monk told me he was a young college student he said one day swami pramishanandi suddenly touched me like this and i jerked back in surprise just me like this i jumped back in surprise and then this old swami said to him in bengali i will translate he said what does it mean there that one which which was startled other than that i will not translate the there is no but no no bhagavan this means you are none other than brahman brahman is also none other than you so it's a very radical identity but of course it does not mean this individual being often dweither against the followers of madhvacharya and other dwight they become very agitated you see you are god what a ridiculous suggestion but not you in the physical sense not you as this limited creature but the real you which is the unlimited consciousness how is this to be realized through shravana manana needed first hear these truths that means study the upanishads study the vedantic text systematically and then after having known the teachings you'll have many questions remember this is a path of understanding not a path of belief at no point are you say are you asked to say you have to believe this it will not work this way in advaita vedanta one must understand somebody asked but is understanding enough isn't there a difference between understanding intellectual understanding and realization yes but that intellectual understanding alone deepens into realization you cannot say i will realize i am brahmasmi but i don't want to study without they do not work that information that pointing out is done by the study of vedanta then you have many questions that i do not understand this i have heard you but i do not understand we will have a qna session now so that is like the second stage shravadam literally hearing mananam is discussion that mananam should generate understanding how do you know when mananam is complete then one one can honestly can honestly claim that i know the teaching and now i'm convinced i have clarity i can answer your questions so when that one that kind of confidence comes one has understood then what is the problem the problem is that one may still feel i have understood something it's a pretty clever and nice philosophy but you promised i will get mukti all my sufferings will be at an end i will get permanent joy and peace those things are not happening not as advertised i still feel i'm just the same person i just know a new philosophy now so what has been understood should be deepened into a living reality living realization swami vivekananda called it assimilation so you have to stay with that understanding until it flashes this is called a stage of nidhasanam or vedantic meditation you know in the text shankaracharya gives 15 methods of navidyasana in viveka vidyaranyam only gives six methods of meditation so they are all immersing yourself in what is what you are clear about now till it becomes a living reality when you when do you know that nidhasana is over when you can honestly claim or honestly say to yourself ahamram has me i am brampan you can sing along with shankaracharya not just singing it's a true statement when you can honestly say sorrow has been overcome i have found in the words of the gita i have found that being established in which the deepest sorrows cannot shake me i found that after gaining there is nothing higher to be gained [Music] heaviest of sorrows cannot sweep you away um young loved having attained which no the higher gain is seen anymore you have attained the purpose of human life that feeling should come notice in the dweiter system you cannot claim perfection and full attainment in this life you have to wait you have to be a good devotee you have to wait for the grace of vishnu and after death you go to vaikuntha but here advaita veer vedante says eva here itself if you are ready it should come instantaneously now itself you should become jivan mukta so the concept of jivan mukhtar in gita terms while living in this body why can you not realize because if this world is an appearance you just have to realize it's like a movie though you don't have to shut it down you don't have to start a new movie the same movie has to be realized as a movie that's all and you realize yourself as the truth the screen on which the movie of life plays you're the dreamer of the dream of samsara you're the rope which is was appearing like the snake till now so you are the reality of this universe nine times he said what i am talking about suitable might have thought yeah so what is all this to me modern american student but direct answer that thou art what i am talking about till now i'm talking about you this is your reality now nobody can deny that i am interested in myself it's about me so this is very radical it's very different from all the other philosophies um today i just end with this statement um here in nyu in the department of consciousness studies mind brain and consciousness studies david chalmers speaking about pan psychism there was a conference on a colloquium on advaita vedanta the hard problem of consciousness see in modern consciousness studies people are interested in the vedantic this advaithic insight into consciousness swami vivekananda he taught this here and says one reason i am teaching this here he says first of all it gives fearlessness this advaithic approach gives fearlessness immediate fearlessness to you are brahman what are you to be afraid of but it also is the he says it's the only rational approach to religion which is acceptable to modern mind remember more than 100 years ago he was invited by william james to harvard university to give a talk on what is vedanta he became friends with nikola tesla who is to come and listen to his talks at the world parliament of religions and later used to come to vidanta society to listen to the talks a number of other luminaries so they became attracted more than 100 years ago because this is a an appeal to the rational faculties of human beings more discussion about this i'm sure there will be questions thank you so much thank you let's open it up for questions i i understand you have some questions yes thank you so i will go first few clarification questions yes and uh so one of them is that uh when you said uh he is chandragupta what they have done is they have taken these identity statements where the individual is said to be identical to the cosmic i am rangan so they have taken these identity statements one from each of the vedas one from rigveda one from like that okay my second question so if you read the shankaracharya the you have recited several times the same sloka or six of his loka who am i question manager yes so this is what advaita vedant has done is borrowed the psychology of sankhya philosophy completely you know psychology cosmology all of it from something and so mana they are all part of what may in english in general be called mind but they have individual functions by they are differentiated by function so chitta is memory memory is memory memory so the again chitta is used in two ways one is in general memory and then in vedanta sankey this is polysemantic you know each each word can have several meanings so you have to be careful in this manner when it comes in this set of four jitter means memory um otherwise it might mean the whole thing then all precisely defined ahamkar is ego what does it do its function is the appropriating function in the mind there is a function of the mind whatever is going on it says i plus that so there is pain i am in pain pain is just an experience but where did this eye come from i am in pain immediately i am in pain there is a desire i want see the eye is added to it um there is i understand i do not understand i remember remembering is a function of chitta but where does this i come from this i is the abhimanapika which appropriates everything it's an integrating function of mind so it gives the feeling of one uh integrated individual ego then uh which takes all the information from all the senses including feelings emotions and when it is in the form of multiple options many thoughts a jumble of options there before clarity dawns that is mind when clarity dawns nishayat nikantha karanviti that is called buddhi i understand i don't understand is it this is it that manas i get it now if you look on youtube very beautiful singing is there of nirvana shutter six on nirvana composed by shankaracharya you know nirvana but when you are giving the explanation of using some text or yes so these are standard definitions you will find it in many texts when you are introduced in a traditional way to these things so for example we are studying it now vedanta vedanta sadhana yogin so this is a small text on advaita vedanta written about 600 years ago which is used till today to introduce people traditionally in a traditional way to advaita vedanta before you start studying the big texts before you jump into upanishad's gita brahma sutra this is like a compendium of definitions like you asked before we go into all this what do you mean by brahman what do you mean by maya what is atma what is jagat what is mana buddhi chitta starting from maya downwards everything else including this entire universe ours to appearance not real this is the conclusion of advaita vedanta now it has to be understood and defended okay i i'm not told you i think uh both questions but if you can ask him the difference between first of all thank you very much we present the questions uh let me say a few words we have a limited time so um and the list on the chat and the q a have that's really growing so i'm doubled please go ahead and i will skip my part maybe i'll just introduce one question a very specific question to swamiji then we'll go to the chatroom and q a okay uh well first of all it has been a spectacularly uh brilliant lecture i mean i'm just uh read all of these things that your exposition has been so how can i put it profoundly touching that i have really not much to say on those things so i'll go to a slightly different question which is uh i was a student in ramakrishna mission school so i have a great deal of respect for that and i always thought that uh was an advocate of the advaita also does puja and stuff like that you know you understand the ram krishna side of the background and also you're not doing vishnu you're coming more from a tantric side could you uh uh tell me how you guys rationalize this and bring this right brings us to two important points i'd like to mention here which i should have mentioned earlier so how does advaita vedantic brahman alone is real what does it consider all this to be after all even advaita vedanta we are studying it in maya isn't it it this is this book is not brahman this body is not roman only one reality everything else is an appearance okay what advaita vedanta does is unlike all the other systems it introduces a two-tier system of truth ontologically speaking there is one ultimate truth called paramatica is the ultimate reality but at a lower level a relative level it is called probably though traditional advaita pundits will be furious if i say this shankaracharya clearly seems to have borrowed this from naga arjuna who said these very things 600 years before shankaracharya but by borrowing importing this two-tier level of truths two kinds of truth paramarthika and vebaharika so in buddhist system two kinds of truth was there and this paramatica is the ultimate reality is brahman and the transactional reality that includes name form and transaction nama rupa bevahara all this world that you are seeing and what we are doing now it all comes in the lower level of reality so to understand this you know advaita vedanta does not actually directly refute dwayth you know what is then advaitan's answer to the charges of a dualist advaith will say we are not dismissing you you are all belong to the lower level of truth called we are not saying that um vishnu is not there we are not saying that you are individuals are not there we are not saying that the world is not there but we are saying they are all appearances there is a deeper truth than all of this which is brahmana nir guna brahmana sachidan in the brahmana um so all so if you admit our bravaharika level of reality then at that vehicle level of reality you can talk and walk and eat and go to office why can you not worship god yeah you can see in bengali bhagavatam if we can do all these things if i can go and earn money i can go and have fun i can study and get a job and marry and have children and all of that life can go on ups and downs good and bad and pleasant unpleasant even around heaven and hell and earth all can go on then why can you not worship god god is also a reality so that is the transactional level reality that's why why only ram krishna mission all the traditional advertisers if you go to shankaramat shrindhiri kanji puri you will be surprised morning till afternoon only rituals are going on only bhakti is going on how do they rationalize the rationalize because it's at the level of appearance ultimately it is see when you have to do something action is at the level of appearance only knowledge can point to the reality knowing that you are brahmana then you have to continuously act it's not actually illogical knowing that the movie is a false is false movie is false it's fiction does it mean you have to switch up the movie no fun then in fact knowing that it is not real king kong is not real then you can truly enjoy king kong if you think that king kong is real you'll be scared those people who are not afraid in the movie hall of a giant gorilla you release a real little monkey into the movie they'll all run away screaming why what's the difference the giant gorilla is an aesthetic enjoyment because it is mithya appearance mithya does not mean does not exist appears but is not real if it appears it's enough for transaction i'll repeat that it's a crucial insight appearance is enough for use for use if you can experience it you can enjoy like your dreams you can have a good dream you can have a bad dream you can be happy in a dream you can be scared and terrified in a dream nightmare why though none of it is real but to have a nightmare or to have a pleasant dream it only takes experience miktya maya can provide you with experience cinema can provide you with experience dream can provide you without with experience without being real that's the crucial insight of advaita vedanta then you can have bhakti at that level so this is the traditional advaithic approach let me just add one more thing i forgot because of time constraints i should have mentioned it what was sri ramakrishna's approach to it what was swami vivekananda's approach all these systems fought for with each other for six hundred seven hundred years sri ramakrishna is the avatar of harmony as many faiths or opinions they are all paths to enlightenment which one is real krishna says all of them are correct he is not speaking from a philosophical angle he is not even speaking from advaithic angle but about advaitan will accept her we'll say at the dualistic level you are correct at the level of mithya you are correct but ultimately your midterm but practically you are correct so sriram krishna is not even saying that sram krishna is saying there is one ultimate reality but you can approach in different ways through bhakti through gyana through meditation through service one swami sharma nanduji was head of our chennai madrasama many years ago he wrote a letter to swami turiyananda one of the disciples of srinam krishna probably we don't have the original letter probably the letter was what was sri ramakrishna's philosophy okay so turian anderjee wrote a very beautiful letter which is published in the letters of swami turiyan towards the end of that book long letter at the end he says without giving any clear answer at the end he says if you press me that no tell me one sriram krishna which one is it if you press me you push me to a corner then i will say i'll tell you in bengali and then translate he writes that then sudama krishna's philosophy joshua bhagavan love by whatever means possible realize god whether you can think of it vishnu and devotion to god and going to mumbai kunta fine or as durga and i am the child kali is the mother i am the child like shiram krishna's own attitude or like thothapuri taught him mohamed brahma asked me that's also fine in whichever way and swami vivekananda said an ounce of practice is worth 20 tons of tall talk he was very practical that way one point here vivekananda often speaks of the ladder he accepts all but says he puts it at the bottom of the ladder one progresses from the difference between me and god to vishishta where it's a unity god is the whole i am the part that i am is are one identity from difference to unity to identity advaita vedanta must be a ladder now this will not be acceptable to the dualists who wants to be the bottom of the ladder he would say all of them he had a very flat approach to he did not say one after another generally uh bhutisha was the 12th president of the order one i still remember somebody was saying this to him that swami vivekananda has thought of it as a ladder maharaj sanji was 98 years old and hard of hearing maharaja first of all he would speak very slowly ladder can also be reversed what was highest becomes the best that's actually what the gaudiya vaishnavas do if you ask an iskand person or chinese what do you think either he will abuse you straight away that is nothing it's false or more philosophically it is it's a very preliminary thing they have a doctrine of tanubha the radiance of the body of the beautiful krishna just the radiance of that the poor advaitin thinks this is pure consciousness and falls unconscious he could have gone a little further and discovered the blue colored boy with the flute and the peacock feather so that is the highest your advaita is just a very poor preliminary beginning you can reverse the ladder final point what was sriram krishna's perspective and our ram krishna mission perspective surrounding often would quote approvingly ramachandra asks hanuman what do you think about me and hanuman replies and i think i am this body hanuman i am the servant thou art my lord jiva as the sentient being who is in this birth but something else earlier something else later on i am thy part you are the whole i am your part you and i are one thing he's telling ramchandra i am you you are me which is correct all are correct from different perspectives all are correct you can be dasa as this individual being as the sentient being you are the part of the whole as um atman you are the you are one with god this is our attitude so you mentioned so higher and higher and higher but he says all are true they are not to be dismissed i had a few questions but in the interest of time i'll switch to the chat room and the q a um so um for people who have very specific questions there is a long list and we have limited time so please um you know please do not do you want to read out the questions yes i i will read out the questions so please um you know if your question is not answered understand that that that wasn't answered in the interest of time so i'll just select a few questions and present to swamiji okay the first question one of the questions um that was asked from parvin chan swamiji based on the same source how these did these scholars came to different conclusions yes so based on the same source same upanishad same bhagavad-gita especially the same brahmasutras how did they come to such tremendously different conclusions it is possible i'll give you two reasons one is practically speaking so open so there's one reality i am brahmana and shankaracharya justifies it the upanishad says me so that is sanctified or that is supported by the open issue interprets the same upanishad then you can do that there is a technique of interpretation and that's provided by a whole different philosophy called urvamimamsa urvam imamsa was an entirely different philosophy who who concentrated on vedic hermeneutics hermeneutics means techniques of interpreting a text it's a modern term it started when german started you know analyzing the bible about 100 200 years ago but the vedic scholars were doing it 5 000 years ago so how to interpret a text you cannot ask the author author is not there what does this text mean it's become a very important field of study in the 20th century with darida and everybody else so how do you interpret they're the poor mime suckers gave a system and you have to so this sentence means this you have to show according to that system that this is the meaning of a sentence there is a very clear and uh subtle way of finding out meaning update but still one can manipulate that to produce different results madhvacharya uses purvum imams hermeneutics to show tatwa masih that dao art using grammar and pure and mimsa techniques he sold he shows that the what is not the meaning thou art subservient to that in sanskrit grammar you can derive it that way also means thou art subservient to that that is vishnu you are subservient to that that is independent you are dependent you can do that how will you dispute grammatically you can defend it um and so yeah so using grammar and mimosa techniques um and also in other ways there are all the in the upanishads you will find dualistic statements in the same tree there are two birds so ultimately it will be shown the lower bird merges into the higher bird and shankaracharya will say that is the truth the higher bird is one and the lower bird is the appearance g wise and appearance they're actually you are brahman but madwatch area will catch the first one dwa superna two birds see two not one so duality in this way one can play up certain texts and play down but it just means in the upanishads there are dualistic statements there are vishishtadvatic statements and there are non-dualistic statements this is what vivekananda said and sadam krishna said all these powers are there now how is it possible how is the same upanishad talking in different ways because that ultimate reality is actually beyond dualism and non-dualism it is that old indian story of the elephant which five blind men touched one said it was a pipe who touched the trunk once it was like a rope who touched the tail once it was like a fan who touched the ear and once it was like a pillar who touched the big foot of the elephant leg of the elephant so which is true they're all true but they are all partial truths austria-ramakrishna's beautiful example of the chameleon somebody said i know it is red and i said no it is yellow otherwise it is green and they began to cargo some said it is colorless they began to crawl but there is a man who stays under the tree who said you are all right sometimes it is red sometimes it is yellow sometimes its green the ultimate reality is beyond duality and non-duality therefore in our attempts to describe it if it is infinite beyond language beyond conception when you bring it into the realm of language when you bring it into the realm of conception and ascribe descriptions to it you will have multiple descriptions this was sri ramakrishna's tremendous breakthrough i think we are only living in the just the beginning of that work i would like to mention a very brilliant young monastic scholar swami written a book infinite paths to infinite reality sram krishna saying infinite paths to infinite reality oxford university press it has created a big sensation in the academic world i found it in the offices of at least three professors at harvard university last year we are studying it um support opposition whatever it is it is created in bengali we see alora infinite paths to infinite reality talking about not advaita but sriram krishna's unique perspective thank you next next question um is posed by amrita kangbay the bhagavad gita is based on the framework of advaita vedanta how then is bhakti yoga also one of the paths to realize the ultimate as taught in the in the shruti right so bhagavad-gita would be smitty not technically not shruti uh bhagavad-gita is based on advaita vedanta that only an advaitan would say i am in sympathy i am in sympathy with her because i am also an advocate my heart is with advaita you say why without waiter why not dwayta there are certain reasons our order is based on advaita our sannyasa is also we are part of shankaracharya's 10 orders of monks and all our sannyasa mantras are taken from the advaithic perspective maharada said so i can say with uh with with uh with all clarity with with all emphasis you are non-dualists you are advaitans so we are advertising but um so from an advaithic perspective there is bhakti yoga very easy advaita perspective by knowledge alone you can realize that you are brahman what is the role of bhakti it will help it will help devotion to god helps meditation on god helps nishkama karma helps all those are helping supporting but none of them will take you to realization according to advaita vedanta only the realization will take you there and shankaracharya has shown how the bhagavad-gita ultimately culminates in in that next question is from nitin kotak the definition of atma is given in mantra seven of man is there also another definition of atma in vedanta yes multiple definitions are there remember vedanta is not an original text it's based on these openings the original texts are the openitions so definitions you must mine them for definitions um so famous definition of the atman or brahmani same thing this is from taitherie upanishad 2.1 brahman or brahman brahman is consciousness existence infinity infinite existence and consciousness is brahman if you look i have got this talk the definition of god which actually means definition of brahman so whole talk is there what is this just this one sentence infinite existence consciousness is brahman so what does this mean look it up you'll find it very interesting so there is a difference between two kinds of definitions tata selection incidental definition and essential definition incidental um i will not explain there's no time i'll give an example of incident incidental definition so that's based on tai tier operation brahma sutras brahman is defined as um janma dyase the creation etc of the world from which that is brahman so yes brahman is that from which the universe originates in which the universe exists into which the universe disappears this is called secondary or incidental description of brahmana definition of brahman the real definition of brahman what is the nature of brahman is sabjidananda brahma satyam ganamanantam what is brahman actually there are multiple definitions available across the upanishads here is one question for sudipta the german philosopher nate say also speaks about this world as an appearance you mentioned that sophenhauer you mentioned the same thing about stopping howard any comments on it saying um i'd rather not nature is a difficult uh kettle of fish so schopenhauer is very clear very lucid remember chopin however had a great influence on nietzsche nietzsche writes a lot about chopin i mean i was greatly influenced he read shopping out thoroughly it was greatly influenced by schwab and her i have met people who are so deeply influenced by nature that if i criticize nature they will feel hurt some of them are here in this very discussion itself so i don't want to say anything and i'm not a nature scholar i've tried to read um at some places he has sharply criticized indian philosophy including vedanta remember in this he follows hegel hegel had said that there is no philosophy in india or china so he was very dismissive that was a sort of style in european thought at that time can't i don't know if he said anything but hegel was very dismissive nietzsche was very dismissive shopping hour was all praise because like in his classic world as a will and representation he says at the beginning what i am going to say in these volumes the book has four volumes what i am going to say in these volumes was best known to the ancient indians they called it maya is openly he's saying that this is entirely based on vedantics art so there was this difference of opinion um there's this very well known philosopher slavod zijk uh if you uh those who follow modern philosophy he is very radical so he came to new york few years ago a couple of years ago i met him in the new york public library he went to two of his lectures um so i i asked him that hegel was so critical of indian philosophy and zija who is one of the world's leading experts on hegel today right now he said he's a very thick slovenian accent he's slovenian i think he said oh he read only secondary sources he said hegel read only secondary sources he did not know much about indian philosophy so he said that that should not be taken seriously next question is from sushmita in bhagavad-gita krishna mentions in many slokas like chapter 10 verse 2 neither the host of my of demigods nor the great sages know my origin for in every respect i am the source of the demigods and the sages who is this i shri krishna himself or he is referring to the brahmana what is applied here yes so both advaita and would say sri krishna is referring to himself as brahman here when shri krishna says i mostly in the bhagavad-gita he is referring to himself as god because he is the incarnation of god god is saguna brahmana [Music] as i said all of this advaita has no objection to all of this except that footprint a footnote the fine print the fine print is we accept all of it with the caveat that they are all false at the level of transactional reality behavior so they're they're willing to go to as far as saying advaita vedanta is also false it's at the at the level of they have to take it and you have to by using this you have to go to the ultimate reality so bhagavan avatar all of them are accepted with due respect and all the rituals all the practices devotion everything has to be done if you do not do it you are brahmata because you will never reach the advaithic truth one has to go through this path and ultimately reach that if you stop at this you are a dualist but both accept at different different ways bhagavan and avatar next question is from kedar nafare kedar i will you can represent the question to swamiji i'll put you live go ahead together hello you will have to unmute yourself together um can i read the question is it um yeah i can i can get answer live i can't see the question you should be able to see the question um right here but in the interest of time i'm skipping this question so it's it's it's i can't find it now it it was a long question i thought i'd ask him to present that question but at the same time we are running out of time so here it is when texts like says excuse my sanskrit so so how does daita vedanta actually he quotes the whole sloka and then his question is how does that how does that guata vedanta have any grounds to stand upon as an india i am entirely in i'm entirely in sympathy with you but don't underestimate the the cleverness of sanskrit pundits so they can find see the tattroomasi itself such a direct saying that thou art that can be interpreted directly as that the award or testimony you belong to that you are a part of that you are subservient to that so this upanishad what it says many identity statements like this are found but they can all be they can all be interpreted in different ways for example even something as direct as me so what would i don't know what how the dwight avedante interprets it but the purva me mama saka who is also a dualist of a kind brahmasmi even he will say does not mean that you are actually brahmana it means you should meditate on yourself as brahmana then you will feel encouraged to perform the vedic sacrifices which is the point which the purum imam secretary is concerned with so you should meditate on your identity with brahman you should feel that i am it's a kind of visualization affirmation but not truth you are not brahman actually don't fall into that in that kind of error it can be done a question a short question um from somebody who wants to remain anonymous is it possible to attain mukti in this life following dwayta certainly i will say advaitan will say no no come to my camp will say of course come come i will give you mukti it is possible uh i'll just tell you what sri ramakrishna said moth part each of these is an opinion or or a particular path to enlightenment then he said moth kichunai these particular paths are not significant then he said you must hold on to one sincerely see how simple these are all paths to enlightenment to to realization which a particular path is not important what is important is to hold on to something he does not say that no give up all these packs now go on your own pack this is a danger in america everybody wants to be rebel so if something is traditional i will dispense with that and start out on my own in rutgers university attended interfaith conference once a few years ago so one of the questions student in the in the in the question and audience so the panel they were christian ministers rabbi i was there student one student said so i'm interested in all the religions because i am i have this project of i'm starting a religion so he's starting a religion new religion he's starting so that's why he wants to get information from all the religions but don't the traditional paths are more than enough there's enormous variety there and they're all proven paths people have a thing in of vedanta also so many great saints have been produced among the followers of madhuaacharya among the followers of caitanya mahaprabhu down till today very great saints have been produced so why not you can definitely attain mukti there is a question from an anonymous attendee in christianity they seem to distinguish between the soul and the spirit it is between the natural and supernatural dimensions of the inner image material aspect of our being how is it different from the in the philosophy or it is the same in fact in hindu philosophy they do distinguish between the soul and the spirit spirit would be atman the soul would be the suksma shadira so why when you when you say um the that person is a good soul good soldiers goodness badness characteristics personality characteristics they are all in the mind they're the characteristics of the subtle body the impressions um the some scars in the subtle body so that is uh the mind itself subtle body and when you say immortal soul you're referring to the atman the distinction between soul and spirit not usually made in western thought whether christian or modern western thought but in indian thought very clearly subtle body and atma are never the same here is a short question from gautam bose uh does this question let me bring it to a close it's already we have gone well over time so we'll take this question and bring it to a close okay okay thank you swamiji does bhagavad gita support advaita vedanta yes and no depending on whom you ask if you ask me certainly bhagavad gita is teaching us advaita vedanta and so one of the courses we did i did last year at harvard university would be surprised to know full courses are done at harvard university we in one term there was a full course on bhagavad-gita with the commentary of madhusudan saraswati called gurartha deepika we studied the whole of the gita as as much as possible and so that is an advaithic commentary non-dualistic commentary by mother sudan saraswati who was himself a great bhakta also the great devotee of krishna but also a very staunch non-dualistic so if you if you follow that commentary you will see how clearly he brings out you know the first six chapters of bhagavad-gita they are all about you the next six chapters from 7 to 12 are about that god they are about bhakti and the last six chapters are about tatwa masih brings it together as dawah that he tries to show that way so bhagavad-gita commentaries multiple commentaries are there which show that bhagavad-gita teaches advaita vedanta but if you go to ramanujachari's commencement he clearly shows that it teaches bishop if you go to madhuacharya's commentary he clearly shows that it teaches great aveda what should you do whatever your path is dwayth especially i find i find lot of very interesting things from ramanuja's commentary i have not read madhya's commentary beautiful if you practice bhakti i'm practicing bhakti towards srirama krishna but many beautiful insights about bhakti can be found from ramanuja's commentary which cannot be found from shankara's commentary so i am happy to take the help of all these approaches i think that would be sri ramakrishna's perspective swamiji if you have just time for one short question from and that question has been asked twice it's from neela saxena um so sankara was indeed prachanda buddha since the two truths are borrowed from nagarjuna do you agree no i don't agree the dwight non a false doctrine why advaitan said no no we are not maya bhattis we are brahmavadings we say we are taught teaching brahman the dwighton say that we are also brahman we teach with kobe what is your specialty your speciality is maya and according to you maya is mithya so you are mitchell you are you are actually buddhists in disguise this is the charge they make against non-dualists because it's it's very close to certain schools of buddhism especially yogacara and sunnyvale many many similarities are there with nagarjuna but is it the same thing no it cannot be because advaita vedanta borrows heavily from all traditions your basic concept of pure consciousness is entirely taken from sankhya philosophy your entire cosmology your entire psychology totally borrowed from sangki philosophy the way you argue the logic is taken from which is a dualistic system but the logical part is taken the system of logic is taken meditation is borrowed yoga practice we are discarding yoga but taking the meditation techniques of yoga patanjali yoga so borrowed from yoga from sankhya from nyaya and of course heavily from purum imam saka the techniques of interpreting upanishads then putting it all together on top of that you put brahmana and maya and put a stamp advaitha but inside if you open it up made in china so all the other the parts and the components they have come from many philosophies including buddhism and there is no harm in that the way of debating in india was when you closely debate with another system remember no system is true or false entirely there is great truth in every system so when you closely debate you begin begin to learn from that system the hundreds of years when the advaitans and the nayakas they learned buddhism in order to cut down buddhism but they also learned from buddhism and they so some of the dna of buddhism comes into the hindu systems some of the dna of the naya uh goes into the buddhist systems this is a wonderful interplay um so advaitha definitely has buddhist dna i can see the angry look of many pundits who will deny this strongly but it has dna of niaya it is dna of urban imams it has dna from sankhya very heavily so that does not make that does not mean shankara is a sankhya sankara is a no he strongly refutes those systems but he takes help from the insides similarly it's not that shankar is a buddhist nor are we buddhists but techniques have been borrowed from buddhism terms terminology logical systems insights have been borrowed from buddhism no doubt we we run out of time all good things must come to an end so with that i would like to thank swamiji for disseminating such knowledge to all of us to the attendees and i'll also thank the attendees for attending such a good session and we would be looking forward to many more sessions like the like this from um swamiji thank you very much all again thank you thank you so much thank you so much i had a wonderful session i pray to the lord to bless all of us this is the time of durga puja and the monday you're going to celebrate durga puja very soon i pray to the divine mother to bless all of us to protect all of us [Music] thank you so much

Channel: Vivekananda Samiti IIT-Kanpur

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Keywords: vivekananda samiti, vsiitk, Saravapriyananda, Swami, vivekananda, vedanta, vedanta socirty, swami bodhamayananda, Pravrajika Divyanandaprana, Bodhamayananda, Divyanandaprana

Id: ENWCcuEyIBA

Length: 103min 45sec (6225 seconds)

Published: Mon Oct 12 2020