ADHD or Quiet Borderline Personality Disorder? [Overlap & Differences]

[Music] hi i'm kyle with med circle joined today by dr judy ho we're talking about two very popular topics especially on youtube adhd and a quiet borderline personality disorder this term quiet borderline personality disorder dr judy is really making the rounds what is that quiet bpd while not in the dsm is a emerging construct that clinicians and lay people alike have been discussing and i think the reason why this emerged is because if anybody does know anybody with borderline personality disorder they will know that it actually has a really wide spectrum of expression meaning if you know one person with borderline personality disorder you do not know all of them they really look quite differently in terms of the way that they present some people have borderline personality disorder traits that feel like they're really in your face and even within the first couple of meetings with them you think whoa is this what's happening and then other people you may know them for months without realizing that perhaps they carry some of these traits and i would say that quiet bpd is more of the latter it's a again a subtype not in the dsm but an emerging construct that people are talking about and with quiet borderline personality disorder the most important aspect of this is that the person directs their mood swings and behaviors inward instead of lashing out at others and so what makes it complicated to diagnose and treat is that they have a lot of intense emotions bubbling up inside but they kind of direct that anger towards themselves and they do more self-harming uh self-damaging behaviors both in thoughts and action that don't become apparent until somebody really intimately knows this person for a period of time if you're interested in learning more about the treatment options and how to seek the right treatment we have a live panel happening tonight with many of our med circle psychologists and psychiatrists you can learn more at medcircle.com or use the information below this video dr judy that quiet bpd seems to overlap a lot with some of the symptoms of adhd what are those overlapping symptoms and how can we as just a lay person really understand the differences well bpd and adhd have overlap in that oftentimes people with adhd bpd or both struggle with difficulties and self-regulation and they generally have difficulties with a stable sense of self as well as relating positively in a consistent way with other people individuals with quiet bpd especially could have these mood swings that we sometimes see with individuals with adhd but they will often times keep it to themselves they'll suppress those feelings of anger even denying that they're angry perhaps withdrawing when they're upset and as mentioned related to the inconsistent self-concept they also have lower self-esteem and those are also some of the traits that we see in individuals with adhd they also have low self-esteem sometimes they do withdraw when they don't feel like they're doing well particularly if they're more of the inattentive type of adhd rather than the hyperactive and impulsive type and there's also this idea of a fear of rejection and fear of abandonment that is very prominent in individuals with bpd but with individuals with adhd who have struggled in the social environment they start to develop these traits as well so those are some of the things that can overlap with those conditions why do you think um well let me ask you this do you know by any chance the percentage of people who have quiet bp or acquire bbd who have a borderline personality disorder or and adhd well the research is just emerging but early research suggests that there could be as much as 25 to 40 percent of overlap between the two so that 25 to 40 percent of individuals with what we call the quiet borderline personality disorder construct may also have dimensions of adhd and obviously that makes it difficult to know what symptom really goes with which condition although i would say that the treatment then can be very much the same because when we think about dialectical behavior therapy and how it helps with emotion regulation we know that that can be applied to both symptoms or both conditions and this is a emerging type of intervention approach that we have been calling trans diagnostic treatments which means we know that there's these evidence-based techniques and these evidence-based techniques can treat certain types of symptoms or groups of symptoms and it doesn't actually matter what the diagnosis is we're going to treat it at the symptom and presentation level and trans diagnostic treatment approaches have actually garnered a lot of praise lately and there's been more and more research about how they work you have a wonderful series on med circle on adult adhd i have some questions about that but right now i'd like to give the viewer an inside look into that series take a look at this now what are some common misconceptions when it comes to adults who either believe they have adhd or have received the diagnosis i feel like everybody thinks that they have adhd and i think everybody is on the spectrum at some point at some time but if you just have inattentiveness occasionally but it doesn't actually impair your functioning and you're not that distressed about it then you're not really going to qualify for that diagnosis of adhd adulthood adhd is relatively at 50 of the prevalence rate as childhood adhd so national studies have shown that adhd in childhood is about five percent of the population in adulthood it's two and a half so roughly 50 of people recover from adhd by the time they hit the age of 18 and then 50 go on to continue to suffer symptoms in their adulthood and i think a big misconception is that it looks the same for some reason because it doesn't in adulthood adhd the hyperactive and impulsive features look very different as a child the child's running around the classroom getting out of their seat really being very rural not abiding you know which causes some negative attention and that's usually when the teachers identify them and talk to the parents in adulthood they may still have that restlessness but in as adults we're a bit more controlled in terms of our behavior so we're not going to be running around when we know we're not supposed to but you might just feel really fidgety and so sometimes you see individuals like tapping very nervously on the desk or on the table and that may be a manifestation of an adulthood form of combined adhd you can watch that full series and more at watch.medcircle.com dr judy with the ability for adults to get adhd as an adult can an adult get quiet borderline personality disorder you know they didn't show symptoms in their teens and early 20s but now at the age of 48 they're starting to notice these symptoms well i think that that can happen although i would say that it's more rare that all throughout their life they really haven't had any symptoms it's more correct how you presented it which is that they started noticing them later in life and i think what happens is sometimes those symptoms are there they're kind of in the backdrop of that personality development but perhaps because their life hasn't been overtly stressful in a specific way that brings out those symptoms they haven't noticed it um sometimes individuals notice it later because they become more self-aware and they realize oh this is why i had some difficulties with relationships earlier in life i just didn't know the name for that a lot of times for example people don't realize that in their earlier years in their 20s and even 30s that some of their relationship dynamics how they maybe are attracted to people who are very dismissing and how they fear abandonment rejection at the smallest even ambiguous clues that the person may be losing interest they don't identify that as a dimension of borderline personality disorder but as they get older they realize whoa this is a pattern that i've had and actually at this point it's severely impacting my life and i've maybe self-sabotage a number of my relationships by being overly clingy or being very black and white in my thinking towards how people relate to me especially intimate relationships and they don't recognize that until they're older ages but in the earlier years they were already exhibiting some of those behaviors that that makes excellent sense and that was a good reminder thank you for that why do you think there is seemingly 25 to 40 percent of the population or of people who have quite borderline personality disorder also have adhd why is there so much overlap well when you think about the etiology of both conditions again obviously there are some differences but some of the similarities in terms of causes or maintaining factors of both conditions is that generally individuals with adhd and with borderline have some adverse childhood experiences some of them come from their actual family of origin so maybe they had very dismissing parents or maybe even parents that had borderline traits themselves but when somebody has adhd that also emerges early in childhood and it really affects somebody's self-esteem if they weren't identified and treated early because you notice how different you are to the other peers who just seem to get things more than you do the teachers are pointing out how you're not paying attention and you're constantly being reprimanded in class and then in addition as we mentioned individuals with adhd oftentimes struggle with developing positive relationships so there's that fear of abandonment that starts to emerge at a young age and so when you look at the possible causes that overlap between the two conditions you can think about why perhaps as they approach adulthood they might exhibit um similar constructs in terms of how they act and interact with the world but also one condition might start to overlap into another because people oftentimes think about the development of certain personality conditions and particularly borderline with instances of trauma well when you've been bullied in school when you've been rejected over and over again by your peers that is a form of trauma for many people and that could be one of the causes that uh promoted the symptoms of borderline to emerge as you get older very interesting tonight i'm very excited because we have a panel of med circles psychologists and psychiatrists who are going to be answering questions and discussing live answering your questions not my questions answering your questions if you'd like to be a part of that check out the information below this video or go to medcircle.com you can also see upcoming live virtual classes that you can attend ask your questions this is not treatment it is education but if you would like to learn more about that directly you can go to medcircle.com live i'll be very excited to see you all tonight why would one person with quiet bpd have adhd while someone else with quiet bpd would not show any symptoms related to adhd well i think as we know all psychological conditions are multifactorial they develop from a lot of different instances and factors that influence the person's trajectory and one thing that we do mention a lot in the emerging research is the idea of a familial link and so if you have family members who also have borderline personality traits are on the spectrum or if you have family members who also have adhd are on the spectrum that certainly could be one of the major contributions to why you then emerge with those traits yourself there's also as we briefly mentioned earlier the impact of the environment and it's particularly the social environment and i think that when an individual has been subjected to repeated instances of isolation rejection uh social um negative influences they're more likely to develop both bpd and adhd and i think when we think about how these symptoms emerge in individuals it's not often clear what emerges first although i would say that when somebody has both adhd and bpd usually the adhd condition emerges first because we know that that's a developmental problem where people start to have symptoms in their childhood bpd is more of an emerging thing where you don't start to see those traits until maybe teenage years and then certainly not solidified until the person is a bonafide adult and so for those reasons if we were to talk about which one generally emerges first the adhd may emerge first but depending on your familial and social environmental factors you may also then later develop the bpd condition in uh combination with the earlier emerging adhd certainly people living with borderline personality disorder benefit from having a strong family support med circle has a series on family strategies and supporter strategies for to help those with bpd i'd like to give you an inside look into that series right now take a look at this let's start with creating this safety plan can you do it without a professional i think so i think that it's on a good day you know when everyone's kind of getting along saying you know i always want to make sure that home or whatever this place is feels safe to you what can i do when that happens you know when when you're sort of feeling out of control what would help you feel safe at that time you got to remember when it comes to psychological skill i have to say my clients with borderline personality are some of the most psychologically skilled ones i have they're very much in touch with this is what works and i wish people knew this about me but in the moment of crisis they can't articulate it right so the more we can understand that on the front end the better it is at a moment of crisis because many times they've done a lot of psychological work so there is that awareness but you know listen nobody does well when you're trying to build an airplane in the air you know you really want to get this thing built before it takes off yes and that's really the that's the struggle is that people are often sort of quickly trying to address a a crisis in a very dramatic way asking somebody when they're doing well like what works for you when things are feeling this out of control for you is there something i can do say what would help that i would you want to work with somebody collaboratively we don't want to get into that caretaker dynamic work i'm going to rescue you i'm going to put a plan on you like what helps you feel safe you can watch that series and more at watch.medcircle.com dr judy when it comes to the stigma around borderline personality disorder are you seeing a similar or perhaps less of a stigma around quiet borderline personality disorder i think when somebody has a label of borderline personality disorder the stigma is largely the same people think that these individuals are difficult to get along with unstable untreatable and none of that is true i uh personally have treated and interacted with some of the sweetest people who have borderline personality disorder and i think that oftentimes when somebody has the quiet borderline personality disorder they can present that way they can present as very sweet very accommodating but as we mentioned the anger gets turned inward and they're much more passive aggressive in their expression of dislike with somebody and in some ways it makes it a little bit harder to draw them out and to identify the condition and to treat the condition but i want to mention that every type of borderline personality disorder um has a way forward in terms of improving upon their functioning improving their relationships and certainly getting better and having those symptoms be much more reduced after a period of treatment a lot of times people will say well when you have borderline personality disorder does that mean you have that condition forever personality conditions are more longitudinal we do think of them as more long-term but there are people who are treated so that the borderline personality disorder symptoms are basically not noticeable and so even if they would say well i think that they're still kind of in the backdrop and i just kind of have to watch it and i have to use my interventions if it's not impacting their life then effectively they've gotten much better and it doesn't really matter what the label is and that's what i really encourage people to think about is you know the individuals who exhibit borderline personality disorders symptoms they they get so much bad rap and yet if they work hard just like they work hard on anything else like depression or anxiety symptoms they can get relief and their relationships and functioning do improve and so i really do hope that the stigma gets better that people stop thinking that it's a condition that can never be treated because that's just completely false it's successfully treated for many many people using dialectical behavior therapy we have a few videos on that we'll link them up here somewhere make sure you add those to your watch list to get fully educated dr judy thank you for being here we'll see you tonight i'm kyle kittleson remember whatever you're going through you got this

Channel: MedCircle

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Keywords: adhd, borderline personality disorder, quiet bpd, quiet, personality disorder, personality, disorder, bpd, narcissism, narcissist, narcissistic, narcissistic personality disorder, medcircle, dr ramani, mental health, mental illness, antisocial personality disorder, histrionic personality disorder, schizoid personality disorder, avoidant personality disorder, paranoid personality disorder, schizotypal personality disorder, multiple personality disorder, video, borderline, youtube, differences

Id: N47STB-ufOE

Length: 18min 24sec (1104 seconds)

Published: Thu Feb 04 2021