Hey everybody, it is Dean Z
speaking to you from Room 132 in Hutchins Hall at the University
of Michigan Law School, where somebody took criminal law back in the day. Before we get started
with the main portion of our episode today,
I want to put out another call for anybody who wants to be part of our call-in show,
please send a voice memo to us
at law dot jd dot admissions at umich dot edu. We've already had a number of people
send things in, so thank you to you who have done that. But you know,
it is the more the merrier, right? So if you want to get in on that, please
send us something as soon as possible. Thanks. Okay. I'm excited about today's episode because
I think it's a very important topic. In fact, I'm a little nervous cause
I feel like it's so important. It's about how to make a decision.
At this point of the year. In the process, many of you have heard
from a couple of law schools and are starting to grapple with
how are you going to make this choice? And there's a number of factors. Some of them are long term,
some of them are short term. Some of them are both. Some of them are data driven,
some of them are purely subjective. And I'd like to run through
my general advice that I would give to anybody, including loved ones
who are choosing law schools about how to make this decision. I should say at the outset
that for some people, this is going to be a simple decision
because maybe you have geographic imperatives
or maybe you are not making this decision for yourself alone,
but with a partner or family. And that really
will dictate your decision. Or maybe you just have, you know, two schools that you're choosing between
and they are starkly different. So it's sort of obvious, but for most people there is a lot
that you should be thinking about. And frankly,
in my 833,000 years of experiences, I do tend to think people make it
more simple than it should be. It this is a this is a big decision. It will
literally affect the rest of your life. And you should be taking it seriously
and thinking about a number of different factors. So let's dive in and think about what
those factors should be. The first thing to think about,
I think at the outset - gonna talk about this very briefly is
are you sure you want to go? I think there are lots of people who,
you know, apply to law school sort of with vague intentions
and they get to this point of the year and they've gotten into some some law schools that are really appealing
and they think, I guess I have to do this. But inside,
they have some pretty serious doubts. If you're feeling serious doubts. Law schools aren't going anywhere. Just take your time, withdraw, reconsider
this in another couple of years. If you sometimes people will say, well,
if I don't go now, I may never go. You know what? That's good. If you
if if you were thrown off that easily, then this is probably not the right path
for you. And and once you get to law school,
it is very hard to get off that train. So this is your last, you know, station. But, you know,
I'm not talking about small doubts. Like there's I don't feel like most people ever
go into anything with total certainty. I'm talking about
you're really thinking this is not for me. Pay attention. Another piece of advice. Don't outsource this decision. You know,
and I'll talk about that more later. But this really has to be
you doing the work. There's no easy way to do this. There's no one you can just ask
and have them tell you the right answer. And in fact, some people will tell
you, oh, it is easy. Just X. don't listen to those people. That is a red flag. If someone tells you that that they don't know
what they're talking about because there are no easy decisions
in this context. But the secret sauce here is you,
your values, your priorities, what's going to resonate with you for what you know is going to lead
to your long term happiness? And yes, I said happiness. I really think happiness should be
the thing that is underlying all this,
this whole decision to that. And I was inspired to actually do this
episode by an episode of The Hidden Brain, which is a podcast I really like
from January 2nd, and it's called Who Do You Want to Be? And so I would highly recommend
that you check that out as an addendum to this episode. In my opinion, the two biggest factors
are your career and cost. All right, so the whole reason to go to law school
is because you want a particular kind of career. Now, you may have a very strong sense
of what that career is,
or you may have only the vaguest sense. Whichever way, if you have a very strong sense,
I would say that's great and that will help
direct your search more. But you should also be open to the possibility that you are wrong
about what your intuitions are now. And you should also be assessing
if you have a strong view, like is it a well informed view? So I meet people all the time
who are like, What I want is to be in a big law firm in New York City,
and they've never worked in a big law firm and they've visited New York City
once on a school trip. Okay. So you got to think I'm not saying
that's not going to be the right goal for you at the end of the day. But you have to think, is it
like how how strong am I in this school? How well informed my so, you know, just bear that in mind
when you're looking for this. But whatever your goals are,
there is data about all this. And I know if you've watched any episodes before,
you've probably heard me talk about data. There's the ABA data on what kinds of jobs people get from given schools,
and that should be your first stop. You should also spend a lot of time
on the website to the schools that you're considering. They all have information that isn't published other places
or isn't, you know, sort of other places. So they'll have information about
who comes on campus to interview, and they will have information
about where, in particular their students have gotten jobs. If that information isn't obvious on our website,
a lot of that is behind a paywall. They will still not a paywall, but,
you know, password protected, whatever they will. We can still give you that information
if you're an admitted student. So if you're interested
in getting information like that and it's not available to you,
you should certainly ask the school if they will provide it. You want to be thinking about the type of job you want to do,
like government, big law, public interest, something very specific
like entertainment law, environmental law, JAG Corps. And you want to think about
where you want to be. Maybe you are wide open about your geographic preferences
or maybe, you know, you really want to end up
in a particular market. So all that data is available
and you should be thinking about it if there's over a five year period,
if there was only one person who did the kind of job
you think you want to do, that is something to worry about
before you decide to go to that school. Think also about the fact that your first job
is probably not going to be your last job. So if your ultimate career goal is something that, you know,
you're going to have to, you know, go through a few steps
to get to think about that, too. Like maybe you want to work in a U.S.
attorney's office. Almost nobody goes straight into the U.S. attorney's offices after graduating. So you want to ask like,
do you have people in U.S. attorney's offices that I could talk to, you know,
and sometimes you can just Google around for the kind of job that you're interested
in and see who has its jobs. Is it people from the law schools
that you are considering think it long term, not just immediate future. So that's careers now. Cost first of all, cost,
not financial aid award, but cost. So schools cost different amounts
and it costs different amounts to live in certain areas. So a couple of years ago,
I was giving advice to a friend of the family who's who was
we were talking about cost, he said, but this place didn't give me anything
in this other place gave me $25,000. And I said, But here, this school costs $30,000 less than the school
that gave you $25,000. You have to think about
how much it will cost to go there, not how much they're giving
you don't get confused about the glory of getting a
a scholarship, but in a certain amount. Think about what
at the end of your three years in law school, what kind of debt
you are going to have accrued. And you know,
think about it in those terms, don't you know, it's a it's about being rational versus
being emotional. Also, if you are interested
in doing public interest work, you want to make sure to be thinking
not just about the cost of attendance, but also do
they give you some money at this school? Do they give it in first year summer? Do they give it in second year summer? How hard is it to get that money? Do they have post-graduate scholarships
for people who are wanting to do public interest work? Do they have a debt management or a program where they will help
you pay back your debt? You need to think about it from a much broader perspective
than if you're sure that you want to do private sector work
because there's money available to people who are going into these lower
paying public interest field that isn't available to other people. So think about it as in the broadest possible
way, and I will I will say to that financial aid and career planning issues these are they interact right so if you're looking at a school
the costs a lot more than another school but that school looks like
it has a great promise for getting you to the kind of job
you want in this school. Nobody really goes to that kind of job. It is probably worth it to pay more for that school than the school. It isn't going to get you
where you want to go, but there is no simple formula for that. That's just you've got to feel your way through that with the specifics
that are in front of you. But it's trade offs, right? Next, I think you should be thinking
about geography. I will say when I say next,
the next factors are these are all sort of equal weight or different weight
depending on your values. But these are important factors. By geography,
I mean, not merely where it is in terms of the part of the country,
but like what kind of a place is it? Is there a place with hot weather,
a place with cold weather? Is it a place in a big city? Is it a place in a small city? Is it a place that's very rural? What kinds of atmospheres
are you comfortable in and can you be comfortable in the kind
of atmosphere that this school is in? And I think that's
actually extremely important and people
maybe don't think about that enough. I, I also think you need to think about realistically about the fact
that you'll be a law school. So if there's a city
that you particularly love because you love to go to the museums
there, you love to go to performances there, you need to think, well,
you probably won't be doing a ton of that or you won't have the time or the money
to do a ton of that in law school. So, you know, weights that accordingly. Think also about,
you know, if it's important to you to live near a family member, I think I mean,
I feel like I don't even need to say that you will know
that that's important to you, but that is something to weigh. I wouldn't give it 100% weight,
but I would definitely put that in the calculation. Another factor is, you know,
what are you interested in studying? Again, as with jobs, you need to be open
because you may think I definitely want to study environmental law. And then when you get down to it,
you turn out. You don't really like environmental law
at all. That happened to me. So, you know, the broad in your
in your thinking about it. But if you are going to law school
with the goal of studying a particular area of the law, look at the course
listings for the last year or two. Do they have one class in that area? Do they have 20? You don't need 20,
but you maybe need more than one. You should be looking at it
from the perspective of after your first year,
when you are choosing all your classes, do you have more than enough choices that you that look interesting to you
to fill up your time? There? Schools are going to be very different in the number of classes that they have
that are not required. And, you know, you want to make sure
that they're up your alley. Next factor
I want to talk about is rankings, which is funny because the last episode
was about how we are no longer participating in the rankings. We, along with many other law schools in general rankings, are sort of proxies
for all the other things that I was just talking about there,
the sort of standards. They take a lot of data and then they spit
out, you know, an ordinal ranking. And frankly, one of the problems with them is I do
think it's very easy to just outsource your decision to the rankings
without actually thinking about how all the
whether those factors are important to you and the degree
to which they're important to you. That said, there's
an advantage to rankings they do make. You know,
they do kind of gather this information in a way that is easily digestible. So if you want to look at rankings,
you should be looking at more than one ranking. You should be looking at as many
as you can find. And then the other stand-in for rankings is just talking to people. And if you know lawyers, this is easy. And if you don't know lawyers still easy,
any school that you're admitted to should be more than willing to put you
in touch with one or two alumni. And then, you know, you have a nice conversation with them and then maybe they will introduce you
to one or two more alumni. And pretty soon
you've got a great critical mass of lawyers that you have now been able
to pick the brains of. And now I want to talk about
The Factor that I feel like applicants routinely disregard or minimize that I actually think
is incredibly important. And that is fit. There's actually you might think
that's like just a short term, you're going to be there for three years. And after that, who cares
if you were unhappy? That's really not correct. First of all, there's a lot of social
science research that tells us that people bloom where they are planted,
for lack of a better phrase, like if you are happy in the law school
you've chosen, you will perform better. You will. You will not just in your grades,
but you will take advantage of more extracurricular activities. You will build your skillset better
by choosing a school that makes you happy. Plus, it is a lifelong association. One reason to choose
a law school is to build a network. If you hate your experience
at the law school and you really don't click
with your fellow classmates, you have foregone that important
part of law school experience. You won't be building your network. So think about what makes me happy. Is it having people around you who have similar experiences
or similar backgrounds? That's information that is discoverable. Is it being at a an educational environment
that's pretty relaxed because you tend to get stressed out
and you don't want to get unduly stressed out or by the opposite token,
is it being around a place that is pretty competitive
where people are really hard charging
because that's what brings out, you know, the best performance in you. There's no right answer here, but you need to listen to your gut. Your gut is telling you,
I really love this place. This is the place I'm going to be happy. Listen to that. You know, please do not disregard that. This is you know, this is
I see people do that all the time. And it just makes me so sad to think
I'm getting so much more money from this other school or this school has,
you know, a better academic reputation or is high, more highly ranked. These these factors are not unimportant,
but they cannot overcome your strong sense of dislike
or fondness for a particular institution. They're not going to
they're not going to make up for that. So consider that carefully. Finally, I want to talk about some things
to take with a grain of salt. Number one, input from friends, families
and strangers on the Internet. First of all,
none of them are making this decision. None of them have to live with it. You do. Number two, everybody is to a certain
extent, validating their own life choices. So particularly,
you know, on Reddit or whatever, if someone has chosen Michigan law school, they want you to choose
Michigan law school, too, because then they feel better
about choosing Michigan law school. But you don't know that person. Maybe it was a good decision for them. It wouldn't be a good decision for you. So, you know, don't just listen blindly and don't let other people sort of force
you down a path because, again, they you're the one who has to walk it. Not them. Also, don't make decisions to go to law
school because of a particular professor or person that you know who's working
there. People move jobs. People retire. People take leaves. And so if it's just one person that is
that's a bad bet. Don't do that. And finally again, just prioritize your own happiness when you're thinking
about all these different factors. Remember, it's not just three years. It is really your lifetime. And it's
going to set you on a particular path and take that seriously. Okay. That is all I have to say about that. And I feel like it went on forever. So you're probably glad. But let's briefly turn to grammar. I have grammar loosely. The first thing
I want to say is a pronunciation thing. Oh, there is an expression coup de grace. C-O-U-P. New word. D-E. New word. G-R-A-C-E. It means like the
the the it's the the the it literally means when you cut off
someone's head and you do it quickly and you kill them quickly
so that they don't suffer. That's the coup de grace. Lots of people say “coup de gra”
and that's just wrong. Don't say that. And I feel very strongly about this
because I had a kind of a knockdown, drag out with my son
about the particular pronunciation. And I believe he called me maybe pretentious or something or pedantic
something rude, but I'm right. And he's wrong, so do it my way. Thank you. Okay. And then the other thing
is, I just wanted to read as a follow on to last week's discussion of how to close emails. I want to read a little back and forth
that I had with Professor John Pottow
of the University of Michigan Law School. He wrote to me to say I had mentioned lukewarm regards
as a sign off that you shouldn't use. And he said, Luke comma. Warm regards works. If emailing a dude named Luke. But you've got to put the comma in. So I told him I would apologize. He's making an excellent point. I would apologize in the next episode.
And so. I'm really sorry, Pottow. You are right. I was sloppy in not thinking of that. And then he goes on to say,
and I just want to share this, too. My peeve is best. Best what? Best wishes
or even best regards. Fine. Butt naked. Is
it self-aggrandizement? That signatory flatters himself the best and then he signed it “Best, John.” anyway. Okay. I think that's all of. Yeah. Thank you as always for watching. If you have any comments or suggestions,
please put them below or send us an email to law dot jd dot admissions
at umich dot edu. Do you think about sending us
a little voice memo? If you want me to answer it
on a coming episode? And thanks as always,
to Dustin, who I made laugh at least once. This episode, which is glorious. Wherever you go, go blue.
