A Sceptical Student encounters Jesus - Tim Keller - This is Jesus

now I warmly welcome you to this is Jesus it's great to see this room packed out I just want to say it right before we kick off over the next few evenings you've actually got some more dates Church just over the road but overflow of your video new female going here the tools so don't let this quick you're off coming again don't let this big off invite some friends to this week is an opportunity for students across this university to encounter Jesus my name is Robin I'm one of the hundreds of Christian students here in this university you've already done that and we're delighted to welcome dr. Tim Keller to see the he'll be speaking at all of these evening talks whose base in New York OB speaks and events like this around the world over puffs spread over to Tim now it's off for around half an hour after that point there'll be a chance to texting some questions we're wrapping up everything by about 9:15 I hope enjoy the evening [Applause] it's a privilege to be asked to speak not once the five times in Oxford Town Hall and to five times go into the book of John in the New Testament Gospel of John and look at five encounters that Jesus Christ has with various individuals now right away I think we got to ask ourselves the question in fact I'm a little surprised that you're all here why not I love Oxford five times if you can make it should you be absolutely my Michael and that's the reason why are we doing it why shouldn't we do it we're gonna get into the text this very first first text that I'm going to read to you and actually that answers the question but here's a thought in a preliminary way everyone has to have a working theory of what the answers are to the big questions you can't live without that working theory the big questions might be the biggest question which is why grow up why get up in the morning what's the point of it all that's a big question or you might have another set of questions what's really wrong with the world there's something wrong with it what if anything will improve it or put it right I've been reading up the English translation of a book by a French philosopher Luc family who in his English because the English title is a brief history of thought and what he says which I find extremely interesting is that most of us think that were more original than we really are that almost all the questions heard me almost all the answers we've got the working-age that we've got through those big questions those big philosophical come he says from one of five or six major systems of thought we think we're being original but almost all of our ideas about how to answer those big questions come from one of those five or six systems and he gives an example do you think it's a good idea to be kind your enemies and to reach out to enemies rather than kill them he says the idea that you should love your enemies came from Christianity he came from nowhere else he came from that system of thought nobody else would have brought it up and therefore if you want to get thoughtful person if you want to be sure that you're coming to good conclusions about what those answers are in resume questions you need to be very conversing in this one particular system of thought which is Christianity and the biggest problem we have not only in the UK but parts of the United States is plenty of people think they know all about Christianity they think they already know what the answers are and I can I guess I just confront you and say I doubt that's true and so what I like - I think most of us are not as a Quinn as we think we are so over the next five nights I'm going to say what are the Christian answers to these questions where do we come from what's wrong with us what if anything will put it right what will put us right and so I'm hoping you would come back and if you can't come back since this is a series if you can't come back for all of them please get the recordings now I'm going to read from the very first chapter of John I'm gonna read the first four verses if you've got this little booklet on here if you want to real long you've got a little booklet that's actually you're sitting on right now unless you got it out and I'm going to read the very beginning of chapter one in the book and the very end of the first chapter the first part is on page three the last part is on page six but let me tell you just give me a second to let you know what we're reading about at the end at the very end of the chapter which I'm going to be reading here we're talking about students and particularly a skeptical student then Nathaniel back in those days and in that time if you wanted to be a student there were no universities you attached yourself to a teacher and there were a lot of teachers that people attach themselves to became their students or disciples perhaps the most avant-garde and edgy teacher of that place in time was John the Baptist and John the Baptist had some students one was Andrew who had a brother Peter one was Philip who had a friend of Fanueil and what we're going to read about is how one very very skeptical student Nathanael had an encounter with Christ on page three in the beginning of chapter one of the book of John here's what we read in the beginning was the word and the Word was with God and the Word was God he was with God in the beginning through him all things were made without him nothing was made than made in him was life and that life was the light of all mankind then on page 6 verse 43 the next day Jesus decided to leave for Galilee finding Philip he said to him follow me Philip like Andrew and Peter was from the town of Bethsaida Philip found Nathanael and told him we have found the one Moses wrote about in the wall and about whom the prophets also wrote Jesus of Nazareth son Joseph Nazareth can anything good come from there Nathanael asked come and see said Philip when Jesus saw Nathanael approaching he said of him here truly is an Israelite in whom there is no deceit how do you know me Nathaniel asked jesus answered i saw him while you were still under the fig tree before Philip called you then the thing you've declared rabbi you are the son of God you are the king of Israel and Jesus said to believe because I told you I saw you under the fig tree you will see greater things than that and he added very truly I tell you you will see heaven open and the angels of God ascending and descending on the Son of man I want you to notice Nathaniel's problem his need and his prescription his problem his need and his prescription first his problem the problem seems you to see Philip comes to us as I want you to meet this new rabbi he's going to have a lot of the answers to the big questions of our time and he's from Nazareth Thank You says Nazareth now the reason he's so incredulous and the reason why I saw the staple is this everybody from Jerusalem looked down on people up north in Galilee it's just like the UK every you know you can fill in the blanks I'm not I'm American about some totally stupid about this stuff everybody for Jerusalem looked at a gallery and as a result parts of Galilean down their nose at other parts of Galilee why because that's one of the ways you deal with being looked down upon as you look at they got to find somebody look down on so even though Nathaniel was from one part of Galilee he looked down like everybody else from the other parts of Galilee oh it's like Nazareth we don't quite know why but he looks down at Nazareth this is the way of the world the way of the world is pecking order there are the right people there are the suitable people there are the smart people and then there's the others and the way you signal to other writesmart suitable people that you are too is you roll your eyes when the wrong people or places are mentioned you roll your eyes you just you just you just dismiss them and that's what was happening here the thankfully he says you're telling me there's somebody from Nazareth has the answers to the big questions of our time I don't think so now if that's your attitude toward Christianity that's not a surprise because right now in the UK and in most their big parts in the United States again Christianity is seen like this it's from Nazareth people just roll their eyes as smart people but knowing people the suitable people in all say Christianity been there done that so Christianity is from Nazareth Jesus is still from Nazareth and we all know we tried that now if that's your attitude and it might be I'm two suggestions for you I think you've got two problems first problem is practically and what I mean by practical is this is very general dismissive this is deadly for all creativity and problem-solving dismissiveness of anything rolling your eyes about anything is definitely one of the best place of never finding your car keys your lost car keys is to look at any place in your flat and stay it couldn't be there it couldn't be there you'll never find them it's there's nothing more deadly to creativity problem-solving in this than dismisses but the second is not practical the second thing I'd like to do the second problem I think you have for that attitude is is more substantial in fact I have to say I have to call it the spiritual problem because the fact that the people of the world roll their eyes in Christianity and dismiss it and say like the mystery of never going to get the answer three questions out of that that is actually at the core what Christianity is and it's actually a factor in its genius remember what I said from that what that French philosopher said Christianity came up with the idea that you should love your enemies not kill them Christianity came up with the idea that you should take care of the poor the losers pre-christian Europe when the monks were first coming up with Christianity and all of Europe and all that the elites of pre-christian Europe thought the very idea of loving her enemies was crazy they rolled their eyes and they said Society would fall apart that's not the way the world works the talented the strong they are the ones that prevail winner take off the strong eat the weak is that how everything is always worth the genius of Christianity and its contribution to the human race this idea of no love your enemies take care of the poor the needy the people everybody flubber have up before I always looked at it's losers Christianity advantage where the things they invented these excuse me therefore you say well that's very nice but here's what I want you to see how nice it is throughout the whole Bible this is at the very heart of the Christian message the very heart of the Christian message go back to the book of Genesis two things we know about ancient cultures the eldest son primogeniture the eldest son got all the wealth that's how you make sure the family coveted status in his place in society so the second son the third son got Pitons the eldest son got everything and yet all the way through the Bible you'll see when God chooses someone to work for with he chooses Abel over Kane he chooses Isaac over dish you know he chooses Jacob over Esau he chooses David over all of his older brothers in every case he chooses not the oldest not the one of the world expects the other thing that you can always tell from ancient times was that women who had lots of children were heroes in those societies that are heroes because if you had a lot of children then men economic success it meant military success and women who couldn't have children or shame women who couldn't have children were stigmatizing and everywhere throughout the Bible when God decides to work through a woman he chooses the ones that can't have children and opens their wombs the despised when he chooses Sarah teaches us Rebecca Samson's mother Hannah Elizabeth God always works through the or the boys that nobody wanted he always works of the wood materials that nobody wanted and a Percy ultimate example of that is Jesus coming from Nazareth Jesus coming from Bethlehem Jesus not being in general or a royal but a peasant not going to Oxford but going to trade school and that's the reason why there's a Christmas hymn that goes like this seek not in courts or palaces nor royal curtains draw but search the staple see your God extended on the straw now you say how sentimental isn't it wonderful God clothes underdogs well the nice thing about the Bible isn't that sweet it's more than that the essence of what makes Christianity different than every other religion and form of thought is this every other religion says if you want to find God if you want to improve yourself if you want to have higher consciousness if you want to connect with the divine however it's defined you've got a summons up your strength you've got to be the person like this you've got to do this and do this even the book I was just reading a brief history of thought which is a history of philosophy the author there that French philosopher says that even philosophy is basically about salvation it's all philosophies are saying how can we save ourselves from the fear of death and from the prospect of meaninglessness and he says the only way to do that is you have to think things out and use all your critical faculties and decide what is the right way and live it with all your body in other words every other religion or form of human thought says if you want to make the world right make yourself right summons up all your strengths summons up all your critical faculties and live like this every other religion says here's how to find God Christianity says no in Jesus Christ God came to find you every other religion says you have this summons up everything to do this - Christianity says no Jesus Christ came to do for you what you could do for yourself and therefore all other forms of thought especially appeal to the strong the people who can pull it together but Christianity is not just for the strong it's mainly for people who admit that a week it's for people who are willing to admit that they need a tongue for their flaws and for what they've done wrong that they need a Savior that they need Jesus Christ dying on the cross to put them right with God and if what I just said is off-putting to you of course it's off-putting to you the ones taught you because it's upside down it's from Nazareth the world will always say summons up be strong pull yourself together but the very genius of what Christianity is all about and the very essence of the gospel is Christianity it's not about here's what you have to do in order to find God this is Christianity is about God coming a very good form of Jesus Christ died on the cross to find him to reconcile you and that's what Christianity is done that's contributed to the world already even the love your neighbor even there's a human dignity of every single human being so you like Nathanael what am I saying Pride and Prejudice watch out for it it's bad in general but it will completely kill your ability to understand what Christianity has to offer you secondly I want you to see Nathaniel's need is probably already talked about Pride and Prejudice but his need you notice that he says forget that who in the world how could anybody next thinking of these very next thing you know he goes there's no in the kid there's no indication in the narrative that he changed his mind he's all bluster never forget it I'm not going to sneak to do that for goodness the next thing you know he's with Jesus now this doesn't surprise me to surprise you if it was really that skeptical you say well why wouldn't never go on he didn't surprise me a bit when my wife Kathleen is here with me and I moved to Manhattan a long time ago start a church from scratch and what we were told is you know New York City is like London and Oxford and other places in the world it's filled with the young the ambitious the brilliant and what I was told is if you start a church at Manhattan nobody will come because it's like you're up there it's that they've already tried Christianity Christian is from Nazareth you know everything rolls their eyes at nobody's going to come well as if you do a little research you'll know that it's not what happened in it and the reason is the Cathy and I discovered that there's a lot of covert spiritual searching going on so now the reason I say covert I mean yes of course all young ambitious and brilliant people want to look like they don't care too overly much but underneath there's a need what's the need I actually think that Nathaniel's there's two needs that we can talk about here you might say why does an angel go the thing was that sceptical two reasons one of which we can infer from what we know about the times and one is there any text one we can infer once indicated effects the first is what I'll call the intellectual problem Nathaniel oh like all the amenities generational Young's units of this generation we're struggling with the fact that the Jews were under the boot of Rome and they had no idea of what God was doing they were in a sense they're having a corporate identity crisis should they look for a messiah what was our future are we God's people or not and so the idea that Jesus from Nazareth would be able to give many answers to these questions he said oh I can't be allowed to go and the answer is it wasn't find the answers where the right Eagleman smart people and the suitable people were they weren't giving them the answers and so he said well maybe maybe I should even look at Nazareth now this is happening everywhere people be careful they don't want you know they don't want the other people to think that they're they don't they don't want to be somebody they want anyone to have rolled her eyes at them but for example in the middle of the 20th century the great poet WH argument I think went to school around here somewhere move the man he moved to Manhattan in 1930s and 1940s by that time it was already a great poet and he'd abandoned of the faith of his Church of England childhood like almost all in his intellectual class and abandon it but as world works and broke out and changed his mind and embraced the truth of Christianity he went back to the church and it really shocked a lot of people but if you'd agreed about it in Humphrey carpenters uh biography of them and he says this now I'm going to I'm going to quote some of the things he said about why he decided Christianity was true and I will you know I'm paraphrasing but he said the novelty and shock of the Nazis the novelty and shock of the Nazis was that they made no pretense justice and liberty for all they attack Christianity on the grounds that to loved ones neighbor as oneself was a command fit only for a feminine weaklings moreover the utter denial of everything liberalism had ever stood for was the rousing wild enthusiasm not in some remote barbaric land outside the pale but in one of the most highly educated countries in Europe confronted by such a phenomenon it's impossible any longer to believe that the values of liberal humanism are self-evident and continues if as I'm convinced the Nazis are wrong and we are right what is it that validates our values that it validates there's the English intellectuals who now cry to heaven against the evil incarnated in Hitler have no heaven to cry to the whole trend of liberal flawed has been to undermine faith in the absolutely it is trying to make reason the judge but since life is a changing process the attempt to find a humanist base we're keeping a promise leaves the inevitable conclusion I can break it whenever I feel a convenient either we serve the unconditional capital you either we serve the unconditional or some Hitler and monster will supply an iron Convention to do evil by now what is he what was he doing Chris Kennedy even frame was Nazareth but the Nazis made him see something he says I believe in human rights I believe in liberty and freedom but that just a meaner feeling if I sent them you're wrong and there is no God then how do we get here the strong ego we guess how they got here you haven't heard of natural selection so if it's absolutely natural for the strong organism think the weak organisms and if we just got here by accident through that kind of process why do we simply turn around when the strong nations start to get the weak nations and say wrong on what basis and he realized he felt that it was wrong to do that but unless there was a God he had no right to tell anybody else his feelings should trump their feelings he says unless there's a God then all these liberal values are useless any system must be God I'm not here to try to print Christianity I'm trying to show you that's a pretty thoughtful person it was driven by the fact that the suitable the right the smart people could not answer the big questions and he was willing to check out an answer you know recently Edward docks is a novelist wrote an article it's been all over the internet called post modernist was dead it was actually a kind of review article because I think it's the Victorian Albert Museum in London gave the first comprehensive retrospective of post modernist in 1970 1990 in other words when when a museum talks about post-modernism as if it's over everybody says how could that be Edward ox comes up and says this in his article yeah he doesn't know where all goes well let me show you why it's a sort of thing that takes you in the same direction he said post mafia be privileged in any one meaning this idea that all his horses are equally valid as therefore led to some real-world gains for humankind because once you're in the business of challenging the dominant discourse you're also in the business of giving hitherto marginalized and subordinate groups their voice could he says here's the reason why post-modernism is over the problem is he said because post-modernism attacks everything everything a mood of confusion of uncertainty began to grow and flourish until in the recent years that became ubiquitous for if we deep privilege all positions we can assert no position we came out there for a participate in society where the collective and so in effect an aggressive post-modernism becomes in the real world indistinguishable from an odd species of inert conservativism the postmodern solution will no longer do as a response we now find ourselves in as human beings we avowedly do not wish to be left only to the market now what's he saying no there's no Nazis here here's what he realized he said we were excited to say basically all moral claims are relative there's no discourse that we can privilege over any other he says then I began to realize that we began until I says if you can't and he's on these anomalies he says if you can't actually say a literary work or an artistic work is good or bad the only way to evaluate it is doesn't make money and he says in the end unless you can say there are some value some things that are right or wrong period you actually are left with what he calls an inert conservativism which means basically whatever makes money whatever it works works so he says we got to get rid of that but isn't it all goes in fact he says we have to get back to values of authenticity but I tell ya it seems like you didn't read Aleister McIntyre's book after virtue a great book and Alistair MacIntyre makes a very important case he says science can tell you what is but if science could never tell you what ought to be as soon as you start to talk about what is what ought to be what is right or wrong that gets into the area of purpose he says for example can I tell you whether this watch is a good watch or a bad watch if I say I tried to hammer never mind can I tell you whether this is a good work bad bye it's a bad life because it didn't do what I asked and that's the point if you say I here to deal with this thing and it broke bad watch you say how can you judge a watchin thing bad if you handle a nail hammer a nail with it it wasn't good for that what was the bill for was built to tell you the time that's purpose and McIntyre says don't you realize you can never say something is good or bad unless you already know its purpose what are human beings for how can you say that's a good person or a bad person that's good human behavior back in there baby unless you know what they're for unless you know what we're designed for and if you say we weren't designed for anything we're here by accident there is no god they're just the result of random forces and you can never talk about right or wrong again ever and if you have a secular viewpoint and still want to say you over there are wrong in spite of how you feel you're wrong that's disingenuous of the extruder so every tox hasn't gone this far as what they are doing but don't you see I'm not going to prove that Christian is true I can't do that like that I can't do that but I can show you there are good reasons to check out an answer if you're willing to admit stop rolling your eyes at each other and admit the smart people the brilliant people they're not answering those big questions in fact they're saying there must be answers but we don't know what they are wanting to check out matters especially when some of the greatest ideas we have today like human dignity and loving your enemies if people understand in history if I came from Christianity last week I want you to see this prescription and actually I'm going to be able to tell you a little bit more about that after the qnn Jesus says something to to Nathanael because when he meets Nathanael he says two things to him he says here is an Israelite the old King James Bible says in whom there is no guile and the translation we have says in whom there is going to see what he's actually saying is I know what kind of person you are now when you can say to somebody here's a person and then there's no to see this is a straight forward plays speaking transparent person that's a nice way to put it the only way to put it is abrasive you know but Jesus is positive about it and he says here's a frame a lot of people didn't like the thing he'll because he was so outspoken and he was always stepping on people's toes and hurting people says here's an Israelite in whom there is no guile no deceit and he says how do you know me which means Jesus nailed it and then Jesus says I saw you under the fig tree now what's one of the one of the reasons why we can trust that this is an eyewitness account is that nowhere else are we ever told what was happening under the big tree there's no indication of it it doesn't come back into the narrative anywhere else if you're making up a story like this you don't do that but the point is he says I saw a little victory and we have no idea what happened in the victory what was the thing you doing under the fig tree in class I don't know see you we don't know what all I know is the thing you can't believe it it was so private so significant it was so astounded to him that Jesus would know that and still affirm him he says you are the king of history if you wanted the Messiah and Jesus rebukes him he says Oh first you were to spectacle now you're ready to adopt me I haven't even begun to talk to you about Who I am he says you're too easily eaten something you have an emotional experience is Tom a Christian before that Oh roll your eyes Jesus says come and see the prescription is come and see means stop and think take a look at me and my claims in my life the way to do that is read the book of John and in the very back of that little booklet you've got there actually an extract from a book I wrote telling you why there are really good reasons to believe that what you're reading in there actually happened that it's an eyewitness account also by the way notice come and see B's process this with friends if you came here tonight with a friend that's the main way for you to process this nathaniel came with a friend come bc means come and come and see the process of friends and come and see also means go deeper and i'll get back to that we're done after we do a Q&A but right now i think I'm turning it back to Robbie who's going to come and tell you how you can ask me some questions and we can give some answers and I can return after that great koneko speaking with the chancellor past ten your question said your bones did you text crashes into that number probably only have enough time to us all over but I hope it will be able to get through some of them whilst you're doing that just for the next three or four minutes I'm gonna bite Tom up and he's going to share a little bit about how he has encountered Jesus and his life which is very good things yeah I'm told I'm a third-year issue should evening you know every night this week just in the time that safety detects these questions in a couple of Christians they're students here else would have been asked to just share a little story about how they encountered Jesus and I'm one of them so bear with me and don't feel rude to text what's going on yeah I'm not making my whole life stories they're just plugins with me into the sixteen-year-old version of myself I was a 16 year old a moment how was longer tighter jeans music you know everything and partly partly through being you know probably got time to explain it but I got thinking a bit philosophically about everything and every quickly I came to the conclusion that there was no God and the question I started to ask because it's a sort of philosophical atheism as a business was science it if it's scientifically based atheism was how should I live my life if there is no God washed of my life and were reflective of what I believe and I was wrestling to that question and I was sort of comparing my life to it and I knew I wanted to be in front of 700 people ahead so that that's an amendment in more drink more drugs for girls all those things that all my peer group was going through and as I was 16 but underneath all of that was just an innate desire to be happy that was sort of the cool buddy that was driving me while I knew a girl who was a Christian he was very happy so I said look how about I come to church gasps that's a Christian again very happy and yeah when I was there I was I went for a little while and I was I was really struck and I realized that I wasn't possible to disconnect how they were living from what they believed these guys were serious about Jesus and that men of Christ manifest in their lives in a an intense happiness and an intense an inexplicable love that for many of those people they barely knew me and yet they were having to ask me and they were they were looking towards me and that really struck me and that got me to the point of saying you know what I want to find out from you guys what it is about Jesus who really gets you so I got a couple of them together and well they look group thing and then they would be blind trust if you were I trusted so I shouldn't know we're going to talk about people that a new one and a brainwash me and it's all concepts I was comfortable with and yeah there's only three and it was through marks cos we've got John's Gospel on it chairs and I find it very difficult to explain what it was that I I felt when I start to read about Jesus like I had no idea Bible at all before that but the best way I found to find described over the years is just one four five years been there mister the Jesus why I found was colorful and he made everything else in my life has just seemed a pasty gray and there was some environment about him I mean I don't know if you've never had a memory for yourself like he's fierce this guy's biggest he has arguments with people all the time he is he's he's an outcast like his friends just reject him all the time and he's on the margins and this is not the sort of guy you'd expect to be the sort of person who creates the whole initiative for forever and then and yeah the same time is compassionate and he puts his arm rather most broken people like if he was here in the crowd he sort of Jesus you get into going are anonymous broken person and I just found the whole compelling I thought it's playing this is staggering I didn't leave any of it but I got to the point of thinking you know what this guy this guy's something and I couldn't walk away from it I just put walk away from it there was an evaluation which also just seems to be shining a light on to my brokenness it was almost like a sea fracture lines in my life and I was comparing it to his and I lost the point I think you know what maybe I'm wrong maybe maybe this whole thing is right so I stood up next week and just said hey guys look I think Jesus is God I just say that's a Christian thank you for nothing you know not a lot they were changed at that point from what it's about two months later things change I was having a conversation with some of my friends and it was then when I began to speak to them and process it to my mind articulated that I realized that the truth tides Inc encounters wasn't just true but it was a beautiful truth but sort of the depth the richness of it the color really hit me and it was that point that God cease to be an atmosphere 2nc and I realized that Jesus was a friend my local wanted to follow that I wanted to chase these my life to please him and that's the honest truth in the story that's what it was very difficult to relate to and a 17 year olds version of a man you've never met before it from the unit-sample of course used a knife but I suppose the point of the story and all of these stories is not trying to say relate to me but I related to Jesus and I found an incredibly compelling person and I just want to hear what Tim said about you taking opportunities by that [Music] we've got about 15 minutes for questions now so they're going to come on the screen are real bad and then it'll be able to answer them first one is why is it so important to be able to assert what is right and wrong that's such a big question in more ways than one it's impossible to live without it if somebody says now I mean I don't know I don't know it's on a voice with this question I'm not sure what's completely behind it if you say if you say if you say can't you get by without ever asserting what is right and wrong there's an implication in this question the implication is you shouldn't assert what is right and wrong which means you're asserting it's something that's the right way to live or a better way to live in somebody else's way you've just done what you said why do we have to do it I think it's impossible even in daily life even if you say well you shouldn't be telling people that Christianity is true and I ask you well why well everybody has their own faith and it's a private thing so what you're doing is you're saying to me your way of thinking about religion is better than my way oh no I'm not saying that what do you say if you say one religion is you can't say one religion is right then you should say one way of thinking about religion shouldn't be right but that's impossible not to believe so as soon as you say it's you don't really have to start right and wrong you don't have to say who's right who's wrong that actually is right it's an assertion if this would be a better way to live at least looks a hint or an implication but when it comes to real violence when it comes to rape when it comes to genocide when it comes to real egregious evil that I think everybody this really knows is evil I don't know what you're going to do if you can't assert that that is wrong I don't know how you maintain your humanity if you can't assert that that's wrong so that's those are some answers to why I think it's important of course the English says was written wrong ok such a big mystery thanks to that's what the next one thing is big is the next question it doesn't lead to the Terrorism negating a necessity of going to morality welcome to Austin don't be proud so you probably invented it didn't you utility last time I studied it the there were three or four different schools in utilitarianism were tearing each other apart over who was the truth utilitarian which shows that you don't have to be a Christian to be always fighting with people if utilitarianism is and the popular understanding of utilitarianism which really has to say is to do is the greatest good for the greatest number there's really no reason why the Nazis were wrong I mean i-i've actually saved some people who not Christians but people who didn't believe utilitarianism was right some philosophers actually nonstick clothes was I think do it remain his job of arguing on the basis of utilitarianism you can say look this is the number of Jews in the world this is the number of Jews in Germany the fact of the matter is if your money was taken away and distributed to the rest of Germany that's the greatest good for the greatest number I see the real problem of utilitarianism is you end up having in a sense of morality by democracy people can vote people can decide and the whole idea of human rights does not fit in with utilitarianism at all effect really until Oteri's do not believe in human rights I know that from the study a that a couple years ago because the idea of human rights is to say I don't care what your society says I don't care if everybody else is against this one person this person is rights that you may not buy a little so idea human rights which i think is i believe in because it's rooted in a christian idea I'm a Christian of course it's rid of the idea that all things are made the image of God the amount of day so the idea of human rights very much resonates with Christian teaching and the idea to memorize does not work with utilitarianism why is it impossible to base a system and things on a secular basis versus Christianity oh listen I didn't want you to think it's impossible and of course you know Robbie only maybe 30 minutes so you know I could only be so nuanced in 30 minutes but actually you can have other systems of morality that are that have a secular basis I just think Christianity is by far the most consistent by far the most reasonable and by far the most satisfy now I obviously didn't speak to that at all I spoke in very general terms about why somebody like WH Auden decided Christianity's understanding of morality was far more a satisfying and solid and consistent and so forth but I didn't have a time to pick up the others I would certainly never say one I would never say that you have to be a Christian to be good or they have a strong moral fiber or a live incredibly moral decent life never say that and number two I wouldn't there's no other basis for morality I'll forget there are other religions I'm like I'm a Christian I believe Christianity is is I wish you all the Christmas on the other hand there are other religions that have consistent approaches from around so I wasn't trying to say Christianity is true because it's the only basis of morality I was saying I would if I had chance to develop it that is extremely satisfying it's one of the many reasons why you should in Christianity the number one reason I've better bad just because it's the first night and I hope you'll come back the number one reason to believe in Christianity is because of Christ himself the other systems don't have Christ the other systems don't have Jesus and in the end even what I told you about a genius of Christian ethics loving your enemies loving the poor comes from Jesus and the message that you're saved by grace not three or more efforts which is the essence of Christianity so I would never say be a Christian because the the morality system is more consistent even though I think it is that's not the ultimate reason why you should become a Christian right that's not the next question please dismissiveness is deadly then why does so many Christians dismiss the faith of other religious groups as misguided well it depends on what you know you may think that after thirty minutes I was dismissive of non-christian beliefs but in the end after a long anybody who's doing critical thinking and anybody who's making an argument and saying this is what I think it's true in the end this is the alternatives I certainly don't want you to think dismissiveness simply meant in the end you come to a conclusion have you dismissed the alternatives dismissiveness me was an attitude it was a taking something like that's the reason I kept using rolling the eyes it's a tone it's a stance of the heart it's belittling it's arrogant and if you say why so many Christians have that attitude toward other religions then they have no defense I'm not going to defend them you're not I'm a pastor but I'm not gonna defend Christians where they're being insistent with their own faith because there are faith is based on a man who died for his enemies who forgave them as they were killing him he was never caught he was never dismissive of any even the people who not just weren't just disagreeing with him if he was angry at people he was angry at people and he took them very very seriously and he says you are wrong you're absolutely wrong and you're hurting the people but he was never dismissive so Christians are that way they haven't done a voice I'm not gonna defend their stuff in exhibition pieces there's time for about to move Christ bunnies are similar to those of Buddhism yes I know saying the same thing that's actually a great question there was a CS Lewis has a little book called the abolition of man and if you go to the back of that book there's a UH appendix and the appendix talks about what he calls the Dow and it shows that the values and if you meet my values ethical standards of life honor your parents tell the truth you know integrity if you take a look at those standards of life many of them now again like I said the idea loving your enemies was not it's not a common standard but generally speaking the religious have a lot of similar things to say which makes sense is a certain amount of what Christians would call common grace in other religions where Christianity differs from other religions is how do you actually connect to God basically let's say let's say Buddhism Islam and Christianity he'll be fairly easy to come up with say six laws of how to live but they all agree on but then the Buddhist and Muslim would say if you do these things you will find the divine connect to God Christianity would say if you try to do these things you will fall short and you're going to need a Savior and so what you really need is somebody who comes to the surface Jesus Christ and who lives a like he should have lived and the die said that he should have died because you didn't live that way and takes the punishment upon yourself that's utterly different than Islam and Buddhism so they may agree in standards if you want to put it this way they are are relatively similar when it comes to ethics and morality they are utterly different in some teri ology which is how you actually get saved or how you actually connect together I think this probably will be the last question most Christianity really the first to say love your enemies I thought that was [Music] not a Christian but he's very very skeptical about Christianity a brief history thought he says that take a look at David Bentley Hart's book atheist delusions Yale University Press you're pushing me you know I'm not I'm sorry scholar I'm pretty certainly confident that that what I told you tonight is true I couldn't back it up as what was those scholars but I would say by what I said just program to Chancellor one more question Oh meet up on that cooks like something religion tends to damn people to hell how can you believe and it goes like that well let's get back to this however what I'm hoping you'll come back and we may talk about something like this again I'm not sure that if you want to say that religious people are dismissive and condemning of anybody who disagrees with them I'm not going to defend that if you want to say this if you say I believe that people don't live like this and if they do there will be good results and if they live in a wrong way they'll be very bad results doesn't everybody do that however is when you come to a decision you should look like a non like thing you believe usually that if you live like a they'll be great results if you live like me they'll be terrible results now the difference between let's just say a religious person who believes in heaven and hell and a secular person who doesn't is only that the religious person thinks that mistaken that your mistakes are going to have eternal consequences you don't does that make you does that make you a little person more narrow-minded I mean you know if I if I'm sitting here and here's a mushroom and here's a toadstool you have total I don't even know what the word is and let's just say you and I disagree about I say no this is this is poison don't eat it and and I believe that and you say oh no no it's fine it's fine now can we disagree and we both but here's the difference I think that your mistake is going to lead to death you think that my mistake is going to lead to a a loss of a really nice little hors d'oeuvre does that make you more narrow-minded knowledge as your convictions are that I mean just does that make me more narrow-minded no my convictions are such that I believe that of mine that the the consequences of your mistake are worse that you think the consequences of my just think are doesn't even work narrow-minded it's just a difference in the way we think so if you're if the attitude is condemning I will not defend that again if you believe in a man who died for his enemies forgiving his enemies how can you have this law dienes but on the other hand if you simply say that they tell people that they could be lost for all eternity is narrow-minded there's no particular reason why that isn't more narrow-minded I think I trust made the case so great thanks Tim those questions I'm really sorry if we don't been able to also use a good chance more chances to have those questions answered tell you a bit about those later so what did you just remind you about what Jesus prescription was or the manual I think it's a remarkable that on the one hand Nathaniel at first was too skeptical and then when he says you are the son of God you are the king of Israel Jesus slows him down it was laughs and he says you're impressed by that you understand who I am when when Thomas after the resurrection told the other disciples I'm not going to believe in Jesus Christ that he was raised with it and so I see the nail prints in his hands and put my finger in them when Jesus appears to Thomas he does not say how dare you question me he says here look stop doubting and believe in other words Jesus said haha give you the evidence he's not against people thinking in fact he's I think he's slowing with the thing now let's take some time and therefore I would like you to see that on the one hand to be always skeptical and rolling your eyes is not light but on the other hand to to quickly say I've got these deep emotional needs maybe this is what's going to help you know slow down make sure you have both a rational and personal reasons to believe and let me conclude like this that you see the last thing Jesus says I believe he's almost the last thing he says you believe because of that I tell you the truth you will see angels ascending and descending on the Son of Man now this is always the case when you first go to Jesus you think oh I'm probably not going to get answers to my questions you make you may think maybe he'll help me be a little better person maybe he'll deal with my loneliness and maybe he'll deal with this problem you always go to Jesus skeptical as to whether you'll even get your answers and your needs met but when you actually find him I can tell you this I can in accident sure I'm not sure of a lot of things but I'm sure of this that when you find it always be far more than you ever imagined he could be in fact when he says it was the angels are sending in this thing on the son of man he's referring to the story in the Old Testament were jacob falls asleep and sees a ladder between Earth and heaven and angels ascending and descending on the ladder the what so the significance of that is the angels are signs of the Royal presence of God and because human beings have turned from God and human beings are destroying each other and rebellion against God there's a slab as it were between heaven and earth there's a slab between the ideal and the real one we know that but then there's this vision that this dream that Jacob has that somehow someday there will be a connection we have a nerve and there will be some way for us to get into the very presence of God and Jesus Christ has got acid he's I think he's laughing he says aha do you think Oh God can you think I'm the Messiah you think I'm probably gonna get on a horse and throw down the Roman oppressors that's not going to change the human condition you will see greater things than that I tell you I am the axis mundi I am the link between heaven and earth I approach the hole between heaven and earth I've come down and through my incarnation becoming a human being and through my death on the cross I can bring you right into the presence of God because I can cover your Sunday it's far beyond anything you can actually ask or imagine right now so please come come back please come and look at him please come and process with friends and please come and be ready to have your categories of change because they always do for the better whatever you're expecting whatever you're hoping it's too small whatever you're expecting whatever you're hoping from Christ it's too small thanks for giving me [Applause]

Channel: OICCU

Views: 39,799

Rating: 4.8243241 out of 5

Keywords: Jesus, Tim Keller, OICCU, This is Jesus, Gospel Of John, Oxford University

Id: DaXeLlgad2Q

Length: 55min 47sec (3347 seconds)

Published: Thu Feb 09 2012