A New Kind of Christianity with Brian McLaren | 6/14/20

[Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Laughter] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Laughter] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Laughter] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Laughter] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Laughter] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Laughter] [Music] [Music] [Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] a good morning heart way I just wanted to take a second here and just welcome you and thank you for joining us at our heart weight home experience and we just hope that you'll be touched and impacted by every part of our service today and we just hope you'll just feel an outpouring of God's love just fall over you in your home so we're just so grateful for you guys and we cannot wait to hug you guys again and we just hope that you're all doing well love you guys hey highway fam it's Dave here today I like to lead you guys in a moment of gratitude a lot of times we tend to link our gratitude to the things that we have or the way we feel but a lot of the joy that we have in life comes from the people around us in our life and so for today's moment of glad to like you to think of individuals you are most grateful for and when you get a chance reach out to them tell them how much you love them and text them or even give them a shout out on our chat all right guys love you grateful for this amazing community and enjoy the service [Music] I've tried so hard to see it took me so long to believe it through to someone like me to carry your big glory perfection could never you give what we don't deserve you take the broken engines and raise them to go [Music] you are my to be [Music] Cheyenne's for when you stand on the fear every battle you I am who you say you crown me with confidence I see in the heaven under fear with the one who asked honker [Music] now I can finally see you're teaching me how to receive so let all the shrine being seized bow this is my beater you are bye jabby [Music] science forward you stand up the bee every matter you I am you say you crabby with God see place on the beach [Music] ha [Music] Oh when my voice in child every ball comes crashing I have the authority Jesus has given me when of miracles done [Music] the authority Jesus has [Music] see Jesus hi when I [Music] jeez [Applause] [Music] Jeffie every battle you I [Music] you cry me with God [Music] the fee by the pie and the beer with the one who [Music] [Music] we have the victory [Music] [Music] when every wall comes crashing down I have the authority Jesus have Oh [Music] already [Music] sit down Oh bye [Music] I thorry see you are my champion joggers for where you stand on the fleet every got all your war I am will you stay you crummy recovered as I have seated in the heavenly based on the fear by the power of your name I see in the heavenly race undefeated with the one who has conquered [Music] happy Sunday everyone I am so grateful to be here with you all today I know that these past couple weeks have been really heavy on all of us but God is calling on us now more than ever to truly unite a lot of us believe that heaven is something we experience after this life is done but heaven is here on earth we must truly realize and wake up to the fact that we are children of God no one is exempt from this but we must see each other as one we have to see our brothers and our sisters as one together not divided and not separate my friends the work that I want us to do today is true connection I want you to go deep within yourself check what's going on deep within you all that we can do right now is work deep within ourselves and to pour and shine all of God's love out into this world so my friends let's get started have a nice comfortable seated position bring the palms either facing up or down allow the eyes to close slightly tuck the chin I want you to have a nice tall spine don't allow yourself to slouch and then together let's just take a deep inhale I want you to fill up your belly you allow this breath to RIE as the shoulders go back allow the chest to open up and then vocally exhale release again slowly fill up the belly you allow the breath to rise up those shoulders go back you unclench the jaw and vocally exhale release take a moment now to let go of all the thoughts that are going in and out of your mind allow yourself to truly be present in this very moment invite your soul to come up so you allow the personality you allow the vessel to rest and instead we welcome the soul by connecting it with its source God as you bring your awareness to your breath I want you to notice what's going on deep within yourself notice the emotions that you have been suppressing bring awareness to what is going on deep within your soul no longer worrying about the thoughts going in and out of the mind and sad we bring the awareness to the breath allowing ourselves to be present in this very moment invite yourself to surrender a little bit more release that which does not serve you allow the shoulders to come down allow the jaw to unclench truly surrender feel light and allow God's love to enter your being allow it to fill you up allow yourself to feel his presence and as you allow the mind to quiet down allow God to speak through your heart through your soul surrender it all now to him surrender all the pain that you're feeling and now call on to God to give you hope to give you strength to give you all the love that you need so that you continue being a light worker in this world take another moment to take a deep breath slowly you inhale the breath allowing it to rise up you allow those shoulders to go back seal your lips exhale through the nose settling down you connect back to your truth we connect back to our source we know now that we are not separate from anyone or anything we are all connected through God's love we have the choice so wake up to the knowing that we inherently have all of God's love we have the opportunity to experience his kingdom on this earth allow yourself to feel connected allow yourself to feel one with God and with all of his children don't allow yourself to be caught up by the illusion that you are separates or that you are less than or that you are unworthy for you were created in His image full of purpose full of love fully worthy take another moment to just really let it all go release the weight that you have on your shoulders release the tension that you're holding on to and let it all go as you breathe I want you to inhale create some space open up the chest allow those shoulders to go back seal the lips hold the breath and when you're ready to let it all go exhale release allow God to take the way take the burden that you're holding on to allow him to take this from you now and allow yourself to be light welcome love welcomed his peace welcome his grace into your being take this last moment here my friends to truly listen to God to truly listen to that source that you are connected to and as you connect with your soul know now that you are always protected always guided always love let's bring her left hand to our heart and bring our right hand to our stomach I want you to feel your heart beating we all beat our hearts all the same we are no different from one another we all need the breath to live we all need our heart to continue beating to live and we all need God's love take a deep breath fill up the belly allow the breath to rise up and with the big smile my friends exhale let it all go releasing the hands back down gently invite the eyes to open my friends a peace and grace always be with you amen and so much love [Music] hey heart wave family you all are in for such a treat this weekend because you are about to watch an interview that I was able to have with a friend a mentor and somebody who means a lot to me by the name of Brian McLaren Brian McLaren used to be a pastor at the time when he was a pastor he was recognized by Time magazine as one of the 25 most influential spiritual leaders in America and he's written a ton of different books he is an activist and his theology his writings have literally reshaped the landscape of Christianity in America during the 21st century he is one of the premier voices in the progressive Christian movement in the early 2000s he helped to start something called the emerging church movement which you can look up online if you're curious to know what that is and today he's going to pour into the heart way community I had a blast having this conversation I've already rewatched it a couple of times and I know that you're really going to be impacted by this as we discuss a passion a passionate topic for Brian which is a new kind of Christianity I hope you enjoy hey everybody thanks for joining us this morning I am here with a very special guest his name is Brian McLaren he's an author a speaker and activist and more so than all of that this human being is somebody who has deeply influenced and impacted my own personal faith practice at a time when I was asking a lot of questions and not having any clear answers picking up many of your books Brian just made a world of a difference and opened me up to just a whole new way of following Jesus so I'm glad you're with us and thank you for taking the time well it's an honor to be with you I have I remember when we first met in person and I followed your work ever since and I have such respect for you and for heart way and of course I'm your neighbor across the state you're a governess you know great to be with you okay so let's talk a little bit about just your journey with Christianity you you have been known within the Christian world as being you know you you for a while you were a very controversial figure you know and you were saying a lot of things that not a lot of Christians were used to can you just take us through that journey of your life when we learn three things and writing more yeah so I grew up you know what today we would call a fundamentalist setting although I don't really know today if there's much difference between the word fundamentalist and the word of Angelica like I look pretty hard and I can't see a clear distinction but it was a little group called the Plymouth Brethren you might have heard of them because Garrison Keillor was with the Plymouth brother and Jim Wallace was Plymouth Brethren and the Plymouth Brethren were the originators of something called dispensationalism and so if you read the Left Behind novels all of that came from Plymouth brother so that was my background and I by the time I was even a young kid I remember thinking I was super interested in science and I remember thinking gosh my religion doesn't isn't interested in science and I just thought I'm on my way out of this I ended up having a very powerful spiritual experience and my teenage years became involved with what was called the Jesus Movement became involved with the charismatic movement through that involved with a charismatic Episcopal Church so within a few years I went from you know fundamentalist we thought we were the only people who were the true church and everybody else was you know shaky - were just such a wide range of different Christian experiences I never really plan on becoming a pastor but my wife and I started a little Bible study that became a house church that then became a larger Church and I passed through that congregation for 24 years about a little over half of the people who went to our church had you know they maybe were baptized Catholic or you know their grandmother was Methodist but they really had no religious upbringing until they came to our congregation and so it was a really unique and interesting congregation and I realized that the forms of Christianity that I had inherited and been introduced to were so far removed from where normal people were I I bet you feel the same thing yes and so I started writing about that and and as I look back I also realized it wasn't just that I was bringing these unchurched people to Christ these unchurched people were helping me see limitations in the versions of Christianity that I you know had been exposed to and and I was learning a lot from them too and I started writing about that and you know looking back I mean nothing I was writing about was that controversial I today I think a lot of people would have no problem with the things I was writing about there were a few lines I crossed when I was public about being accepting inclusive of LGBTQ persons that upset some people when I you know made friends with a lot of Muslims and and Jews and and wasn't you know stereotyping them and was seeing and treating them as equals that wasn't a big deal that was a big deal with some people then but it isn't really I hope I guess it still isn't some people and and then when I really started caring about issues of race issues of the environment and issues of economic inequality and poverty and structural injustice I think for some people they didn't like that you know so there have been a few things but on the other hand I I it's just hard for me to imagine how people would still be terribly upset about those things but obviously some are yeah and it's it's I've always thought about like how how grateful I need to be that people like yourself you know put yourself out there at a time when it was not popular to say a lot of this stuff because you're right I mean we we we have evolved a little bit little as a religion and in society as well but I'm so grateful that people like you were willing to speak up and speak out so that people like me you know young guns can come in and say this and have and stand on your shoulders I can't tell you how happy it makes me feel if that's the case I when I was going through this I I don't think I think that was beyond my wildest dreams all I was trying to do is survive I remember I wrote about this in one of my books called a new kind of Christian but I remember one day sitting at a retreat centre I was a pastor I've been a pastor I don't know 10 years over 10 years I was sitting at a retreat centre had my journal out I was writing in my journal one year from today I will be out of the pastor it and one year from today I may not be a Christian it began and so I was just trying to find a way to survive as a Christian and keep my integrity and the thought that really I never would have guessed that the ideas that I and then I found a few other people you know this often is how it goes you you have the courage to express your doubt or you the courage to express your question and then you think you're going to be crucified and of course some people throw a few stones but other people come out of the woodwork and they I thought I was the only one asking this question I'm so relieved to find somebody else and you know that I say I'm so relieved to find somebody else and so the idea that these you know this freedom to ask questions has spread and we and people like you and thousands of thousand people have said you can be a committed Christian and make space for people who have questions and doubts and you know see things with different political lenses and so on yeah I'm very encouraged by that I mean we we have a lot to be discouraged about right now but every once in a while I think we have to say you know there there's another way that we have made a lot of progress and you know I think part of what was probably a challenge for so many people as you are writing the things that you were writing in those earlier days has to do with the fact that you are challenging a lot of theological assumptions yeah that Christians have made because there's such a intricate connection between us what we believe about God and how we're living our lives yes one of my mentors said if your ideas about God are wrong and unhealthy the more devoted you are the worse off you become and and you know to be deeply devoted to a deeply dysfunctional understanding of God hurts you and then you hurt other people and all of us have done this I'm afraid to say but but this is why the the continual humility and the continual quest to have a bigger and better and deeper understanding of God and life and ourselves you know it really is important otherwise we hurt ourselves and we hurt other people and frankly it's theologically rooted we hurt the earth as well so all of these things are are connected how what we believe about God it it's the framework for how we live mm-hmm I loved in the great spiritual migration or what was it called is it yeah the great spiritual migration thank you oh my gracious yeah at the end you you talk up you give this vision of the church as a school of love yes DK talk a little bit about that I sure so you know we adopted that language by the way at hardway I've met so many birds I'm so glad to hear that so I I grew up believing that the gospel was an evacuation plan this world is hopeless all we're trying to do is get people saved born again and you know on the on the rocket ship to go to heaven when they die and and in a way I I know this is a little disparaging but there's some truth to it that the church ends up being like a warehouse where we're storing up all these Souls until we can ship them off to their final destination so we need an air condition where a house with a lot of great entertainment and all the rest right to keep all the souls from running out and disappearing and so for me all of this starts when we say no the gospel is not an evacuation plan the gospel is a transformation plan we'd say it in the Lord's Prayer whenever we pray may your will be done on earth as in heaven the gospel is about transformation we join with God in the transformation of the world beginning with ourselves we and that transformation has to begin in in each of us and and what we discover is that the most comprehensive vision for our own transformation and the world's transformation is love you could say it this way in the scriptures we start with law and law is good but then law leads us to wisdom you know so the law we find in the Ten Commandments and Leviticus is on wisdom we find in proverbs and Ecclesiastes and so on so lovely just a wisdom wisdom leads us to social justice that's what we find in Isaiah and Amos and and so so now we have law wisdom and social justice and then social justice leads us those three together lead us to the Holy Spirit and the primary fruit of the Holy Spirit is love and so there's this movement the law is not bad it's just the starting place and and so if love is what this thing is all about here's what is a little troubling to think about after 2,000 years this religion has invested an awful lot of blood and an awful lot of ink in perfecting its beliefs but we have not learned very much about how to become loving people how to help our children become loving people how to become agents of love in this world we have a an infantile understanding of love and in non existent what we might call pedagogy of love meaning a sense of look we know how to teach math we know more about how to teach math than we know about how to teach love I mean none of us would want to go to the hospital and have surgery unless we knew that there were medical schools that really could teach people how to operate on your heart or your brain or whatever well we don't have surgical level knowledge in how do we develop loving human beings and that's what we need going forward and here's my belief my conviction a lot of people are dropping out of church because it just doesn't seem worth the time in the investment and also frankly some people are worried if they get involved with a church they'll become a worse person than they were before in other words they'll become more judgmental more racist more complacent more selfish whatever but if we could make a promise that if you become part of our community you'll be part of our community work we're all seeking to become the most loving version of ourselves as possible and we're all working to help our children become the most loving version of themselves as possible I think we'd have waiting lists you know to get involved with something like that yeah Wow now I want to ask a personal question because I know that in light of Christian history like you've just mentioned so often getting it wrong in light of all of the damage that has been done in the name of Christianity yes fundamentalism what is it that made you remain a Christian yes yes because because I mean a lot of our folks they don't know you and they don't know about this stuff that you do in our community but but you got a lot of heat yeah there was times where you you know I the little bit that I've gotten criticized and my small sphere of influence has already taken me through a whole self realization and waking up and I mean a whole journey yes that's a lot of pain you have to carry I'm sure it's not easy when you're trying to do with good intention so why did you stay a Christian why are you still a Christian yeah well first you're making me feel really good right now Danny because my next book is called faith after doubt which is what we were just talking about how can our faith survive that kind of questioning but my book after that that I'm actually writing right now is called do I stay Christian so that's exactly not the the question that I want to grapple with so I've been thinking about this a lot lately um regarding the the criticism you know some people might know the name of another writer his name was Dallas Willard he died a few years ago but Dallas was one of my mentors and a dear friend very good to me and Dallas used to say all of us want to be good but we also want to be thought good thought of is good right and and he said we eventually have to make a choice about whether we care more about being thought of as good or actually being good what happens when our desire to be good leads us to a place where other people say that we're bad Wow and and when I look back that was the gift of that experience it really forced me to deal with that in my own but of course this is what Jesus said blessed are you when people secure and say all kinds of evil things about you you know he saw this he prepared his disciples for it people will think they're doing a service to God when they kill you he said so so that now I realized was an important part of my own growth and it's probably something all of us go through in in one way or another um there were times when I was tempted to give up but I had remembered I once said to myself I've got enough problems already I don't want to have turning away from God I don't want to add that to all my other problems in other words I never felt freedom and my spirit freedom in my heart that I was supposed to give up on on being a Christian but but I I want to say one other thing I sort of part of me right now is I want to summarize my whole book to answer your question but if a person has not seriously wondered about maybe they should stop being a Christian I think they shouldn't be a Christian in other words if you haven't studied Christian history and if you haven't faced the ugliness what's being done in the name of Christ today so much so that it makes you think how can I stay affiliated with this I I don't think you've done your homework but here's the thing let's say I left Christianity what do I want to become any other religion I become they have their skeletons in their closet - right yeah and then I said well let me be an atheist well then you find out atheists have a whole lot of problems - and here's my conclusion now the deepest problems that Christianity has are human problems they're problems of what it means to be a human problems of dealing with our pride problems of dealing with our fear of problems of dealing with our green problems of dealing with our aggression and hostility and and so what I want to do is like what we do I want to say I don't want to be a human being anymore because humans are really a disgusting mess well I don't have that option I am a human so what I have to say is maybe the best thing I can do is to be a Christian and try to become the most human loving christ-like Christian and maybe that would lead to the only other thing I'll say is a much more that could be said but if you say why do I stay Christian it's not because of Christianity it's not because of Christian history it's because of our founder then I just think Jesus was right I honestly think he was right now yeah and and so for me to stay loyal to Jesus means I want to love everybody but here's where it gets interesting Danny because I want to love all of my fellow Christians and I want to love all of my Muslim brothers and sisters and neighbors but I love all of my Jewish friends all of my Hindu Buddhist Sikh Hindu atheist friends I just want to love everybody equally and the irony is I don't think that makes me less of a Christian I think that is what it's all about to be a Christian a month so that brings me to a very important question that I I know you can address with a lot of nuance which is needed I have been talking about these things with our heart weight community since since we started in 2016 and there are a lot of people that they they think it's unfaithful they feel like it's unfaithful for them to be Christian and to also say we want to be welcoming and affirming as of LGBTQ people we talk to you know when I talk about Christianity not having a monopoly on truth and recognising the Spirit of God at work in all of the world's major religious traditions when I talk about I mean social justice there's a lot of Christians who feel being unfaithful to Christianity to do these things because of a Bible verse or because of a belief they have so how do you how what do you have to say to people like that because your your vision for life this beautiful vision for life that you've articulated is flowing from your commitment to this following the Jesus way so listen how do you how do you do that and how can you help us do that so can I tell you a quick story to answer that question you may have heard of a fella named eboo Patel eboo is a Muslim activist who started something called Interfaith youth core and they they bring together Jews Muslims Christians Buddhists Hindus atheists all kinds of people to serve the poor and the needy together and believing that if people serve together they discover things about each other it's a beautiful organization and and I love EBU dearly the first time we met we've become deep friends since then but the first time we met we had this conversation we met in a certain place and then we both had to go so I walked into his car but we were so deep in conversation and he walked me to my car and I walked back to his car we just our conversation couldn't and I said to him EBU you Muslims have a big advantage over us Christians when it comes to getting along with people of other faiths he looked at me what do you mean I said every time I talk to a Muslim they quote a verse from the Quran that says where God says we made you different so that you would seek to understand one another I said that's such a beautiful verse where God gives a submission to be you God made us different on purpose so we would seek to understand each other and I said but whenever I talk to a Christian about loving people of other faiths they quote John 14:6 Jesus said I am the way the truth and life no one comes to the Father but by me and Annie boo laughs and he said believe me Bryan he says I know you've read the Quran so you know this there are a lot of other verses in the Quran that could be quoted that would be a lot less friendly than the one that you've heard and then he said and I bet there are a lot of verses in the Bible that could be quoted that would be a lot more friendly than the way they could John 14:6 and here.then who said something I'll never forget he said why do you think it is Brian I mean he's such a good teacher he just asked me the perfect question why do you think it is Brian that Muslims quote one verse and Christians quote one verse they're nervous I thought about I said well it's because their teachers taught them that's the verse you should quote well there it is so let's just take John 14:6 Jesus first of all if you read John 14 5 it doesn't say and Philip came to Jesus and said what about people of other religions who have never heard of you you know it's not the question Jesus is answering and if you really read that in context something very different is going on and but he so so John 14:6 I think is it miss applied as an answer to that that question if anybody's interested I have a little a little a book about this on my website Brian McLaren that it's just called is Jesus the only way maybe it's a it's a it's an in-depth study of that first but here's the thing your other book was great too why did Jesus Moses the Buddha and Muhammad cross the road just a book I talked about this this issue in in great detail but here's the thing let's imagine if somebody said to me what should our attitude be toward people of other religions and what if my teachers had taught me to quote first John for beloved let us love one another for love is of God and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God he who does not love does not know God for god is love whoever says he loves God and hates his brother his liar what if what if our teachers have taught us that's the first go to verse on that question and we would just behave very differently it would be a very difference would be a very different situation and may our great challenge and opportunity for people like you and me it's why I'm so grateful you know to you for the great job you're doing as a teacher to help people find a new way and better ways to respond they're sure for sure so speak to us a little bit about your passion for social justice and the connectedness that that has to your faith so you know not now it's hard to talk about this it really is so look I'd encourage anybody who loves the Bible go to Luke chapter 4 and read Jesus inaugural sermon and he quotes the prophet Isaiah the Spirit of the Lord is upon me boy Pentecostals charismatic should love this verse because it's about the Holy Spirit the Spirit of the Lord is upon me and he doesn't say to speak in tongues and to dance in the aisles and to slay people in the spirit and you know and to proclaim prosperity so everybody can get rich no Spirit of God is upon me to proclaim good news to the poor recovery of sight to the blind to proclaim Liberty to the captives to the imprisoned to the incarcerated and and good news to the oppressed and so that the oppressed can be liberated I mean what a powerful verse it's it's about social justice the Holy Spirit empowers us to care about poverty to care about oppression to care about incarceration exactly the issues that that we face today read Acts chapter 16 we'll call on Silas come into Philippi the first time the gospel of Jesus Christ is proclaimed on our own Roman territory on a Roman colony and they come in and what do they do they start with the lowest person on the totem pole first women are put in lower position than men in the Roman world it's a woman and it's a poor slave girl and they help a slave girl after they've already built a relationship with some spiritually open women and a woman is actually the leader of that community and then they confront the magistrates they they actually have a sit-in it's right there in Acts chapter 16 they have a in the jail and they practice civil disobedience they refuse to leave the jail until they receive an apology from the magistrates for their unjust beating so it's everywhere in the Bible it's just that many of us were trained not to see it again and it's what's going on in our world today this country is a country built on the genocide of one people's the Native Americans at land theft and genocide and on the enslavement of another group of people kidnapped Africans virtually 100% of the slave owners were Christians they'd show up in church every Sunday singing songs pray praise and God thanking God for being forgiven and then go back on Monday to beating and raping and abusing and exploiting these human beings made in the image of God and they felt fine about it and when they were confronted about it they defended it using the Bible I mean that's the history of this religion in this country and the question is when are we going to address it what are we going to address the theological roots of the racism in this country I think you could say that colonialism which affected North America Central America South America affected Africa affected huge parts of Asia it is a global phenomenon colonialism was a Christian project launched by Pope Nicholas v in 1452 defended by Protestants and Catholics alike and it's time for us now to have our hearts purified and to rediscover the radical revolutionary healing good news of Jesus Christ that tells us every single person is equal every single person is beloved by God and God has no God God is non discriminatory oh my goodness what good news that is are you still preaching I'm sorry I was going out of there but no I I don't preach too often but well we're gonna have to change that and have you come to hardway at some point and get us all riled up because this lot this Islam is good guess I'm going Wow well I'm with you 100% on all of this and I I know that there are there have been and maybe you can bring this to light a little bit not just to paint the history and tradition of Christianity and in that negative light yes but there have been voices yes and the minority though but there have been voices yes within the Christian community for centuries that have had this vision for the world King can you can you talk a little bit about that and then awesome yeah I'm so glad you bring that go ahead what was your other comment and then also I know that you're very in touch right now with with a lot of different communities and I and I wanted just to hear from you about what they're saying about this comment work yes so oh my goodness what great questions Danny so but let's remind me what was your first question you know the first one is basically to talk about those other streams with infusions created have stood for this so I do not know if I'm pretty sure what I'm about to tell you is 100% true that somebody might be able to tell me one or two examples but as far as I know last time I was able to check the very first person in the history of the human race who we haven't a statement from condemning slavery was st. Patrick Wow and st. Patrick you know early centuries of Christianity seen by some as you know one of the founders are one of the key figures of Celtic Christianity was was one of the first to say that slavery is evil and against the will of God but weird a remarkable and you know he was a slave and he he escaped and then he went back to Ireland where he had been held as a slave to proclaim the good news of Jesus Christ to the to to the very people who had been his slave masters I mean what a beautiful beautiful story and and then you fast forward a few centuries to to st. Francis in about 1200 and and st. Francis saw the corruption of the church and and saw the violence of the church for the hundred or so years before st. Francis the church had really gone on a violent rampage there were these different groups called the weld weld ncands the Alba gents en several others there were in some ways the forerunners of the Protestant Reformation the church just crushed them and killed them and the church was practicing torture for people to tell people you have a false belief we're gonna torture you until you confess the truth I mean the sun's absurd to us today the church had this violent streak and st. Francis modeled non-violence he had the courage to be different but he did it with non-violence he even walked in that the church was having what we call the Crusades wars with Muslims and he walked into the camp of the Egyptian leader unarmed as a representative of a non-violent Christian I mean what a hero st. Francis is in so many ways I mean there are so many great examples in our history and and in some ways we we need to rediscover them and celebrate them in a fresh way let me just tell you in regard to your second question I one of the greatest joys of my life as I have many dear friends who are rabbis many dear friends who are Muslim leaders and what is striking is how they're facing the same struggles that we are you know I have a friend who's a rabbi and she wrote something years ago where she said I it was right after the Israeli government had bombed Gaza and killed a bunch of children she said I believe I'm being true to my Jewish faith to say that the heart of God is as grieved over the death of a Palestinian child as God is grieved over the death of a Jewish child now that I think she's right I think that's courageous I think it's true did you know she received death threats from her fellow from fellow Jews threats against her children from her fellow Jews so that tells you that similar problems that we have in Christianity yeah in Judaism I have Muslim friends who've told me exactly the same thing so these struggles that we have are happening across religions and what to me I dare to believe is that the Spirit of God is calling people to not let their religions become instruments of hate and exclusion and separation but is calling people of our religions to to follow the way of love interestingly when you talk in those terms and you talk about Jesus as a leader of love I was with a rabbi once your I'll never forget we're sitting in the balcony of his apartment in Los Angeles and he said to me look Brian I think the way you talk about Jesus I think Jesus was from God and Jesus was right I think he was a Jewish prophet and it was a mistake of us to not listen to him III mean when you let Jesus as as a messenger of love be speak for himself you find out that that you know he's yeah you find out it's just it's just a different world that's so good Brian thank you thank you so much for your time thank you for sharing with us and I I just I value you and your voice so much and I'm looking forward to continuing our friendship and I just want to say thank you from the bottom of my heart for impacting me because your influence in my life has now reverberate it into the lives of everyone who's connected to our community at heart way so thank you thanks be to God such a pleasure to be with you look forward to getting together in person all right [Music] hey heart rate Church fam I want to say that we really do miss you seeing your faces and heart way I know I miss hugging you all being able to seat you guys Andrew what do you miss about heart way on heart rate turkey unistart my kids and I know Amelia and this is all her friends in the daycare as well but we want to say thank you so much for still continuing to join us our heart way at home that's been amazing one thing we do want to say is make sure you stay connected with us guys on all our social media platforms in addition to that we want to thank all the first time guests that have joined us today and if you are a member of our heart weight church family and are still able to give keep in mind that there are two ways that you can give here at heart ways these two new ways that you can get here at heart weight Church the first way will be heart weight church calm safe and secure site and then the second way will be texting the dollar amount for eight four three two one thanks guys we'll see you next week goodbye [Music] you

Channel: Heartway

Views: 693

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Id: G62VUOhVOlU

Length: 67min 40sec (4060 seconds)

Published: Sun Jun 14 2020