A Millionaires Masterclass In Business, Side-Hustles and Passive Income - Mark Tilbury

what's the worst that can happen when you're 20. you lose what you have you're 20. you've got all your life ahead of you to restart something else I mean how exciting is that hey friends and welcome back to Deep dive the weekly podcast where every week it's my immense privilege to sit down with academics and authors and creators and entrepreneurs and other inspiring people and we find out how they got to where they are and the strategies and tools we can learn from them to help us build a life that we love what you're about to hear is an interview between me and Mark Tilbury now Mark has an incredibly inspiring story he left school at the age of 16 with no qualifications and no money he then had a winding career trajectory and he took a couple of risks and ended up starting his first business and now 30 years later he is a multi-million dollar CEO I always knew at 16 when I left school I wanted to be self-employed I'd done loads of different side hustles I've always liked finding ways of making money School teaches you to go out and find a job to earn money but it doesn't teach you what to do with that once you've got it in this conversation we talk a lot about business how to build a physical business how to build an online business what it really means to think like an entrepreneur and the skills needed to survive in the world of business and how to make this thing that we call passive income everyone who's young has got time to make money I don't think people are aware of how much time they have I'm probably going to shock you here with something at the moment according to the YouTube analytics 81 of you who are watching this on YouTube have not yet hit the Subscribe button and so if you're for example in the now 81 of people who are watching this on YouTube but who are not subscribed to the channel I would love it if you could do so and would be awesome to get that number down to 50 and it would be cool to get like 50 50 sub non-sub ratio just just for fun mark thank you so much for coming on the podcast it's gonna be super fun I've been looking forward to this for a long long time yeah same and yeah I'm I'm going on yours as well so we'll do a link Swap and all that all that jazz um your story is super interesting and I'd love it if you can just kind of take us take us through it and then I'll and then we'll dive into different points and I'd love to ask more questions about it so it's quite a long story it depends where you want me to start from really yeah um but obviously I come from a different era to what is around now um and I really wanted to leave school school wasn't great for me um I wouldn't say I hated it but I didn't enjoy it is that fair enough I tolerated going yeah I had um lessons that I enjoyed like would work technical drawing Sports all that sort of thing but everything else seemed to be a waste of my time I always thought there was always more out there in the world for me to do so I thought 16 I can leave so I will leave and I was told by my mentor at the time although I didn't know he was my mentor then that getting a trade will be your best bet you know whatever you want to do after that get a trade behind you because you can't go wrong so I became a carpenter Joiner and did that apprenticeship for three and a half years a couple to join her yeah like the cabinet maker you might call nowadays so I used to make well some nice furniture I used to make but eventually I got wound up with the job because they got a really big contract for making these um wooden trash bins for Walmart or capacitor as it is in the UK and I was constantly making these and that's why I actually bought that job to an end because I thought you know I can't continue to do this it's more to me than that and it actually pushed me out of that job which was quite good really in hindsight um but disappointing at the time do you think that's still good advice for people today in 2023 um the trade thing if you think personally and I think we'll Clash on this um I actually think too many people go to university um I think I think it's about 25 at the moment it's something like that 20. that's quite 100 um and when I was at school maybe 10 when um so the best of the best went to University to do the jobs like becoming a doctor or medical professional like yourself which you've got to do I understand that fully understand that and that is correct but what I think is a lost part of our generation now is the people that go that could have become plumbers electricians Carpenters which then go on to having their own businesses within those fields and growing those out and of course because of that we've now got a shortage of those and when you get a plumber in or someone to do any work for you because you're a fortune because there's such a big skill shortage yeah um so I do think too many go so yes I do like the trade Road and you've always got something to fall back on and while you're learning a trade you're also learning about life as well because you're meeting so many different people and seeing how the world takes and I think that's great for setting you up if you want to go into business how would you how would you define trade um trades well realistically the plumbers the electricians anyone that does anything that takes time to learn through a proper apprenticeship I'd say that's really a household trade so anyone that you you actually phone in I don't know for example tree surgeon you know they cost you a fortune tree surgeon yeah what a tree surgeon do well pruning the trees and all that okay there's quite a lot of work there when you've got as many trees as I have yeah I mean yeah you're talking three or four grand for a visit so okay so skills like that I think are are worth investing in um and I think a lot of people that do go to university and please bear in mind I'm not knocking University because it has its place and 100 agree with that um but too many go that could make a really good career elsewhere like and earn a lot more not start off with the debt that they incur by garage University and I do understand there's a social element to University as well but it's a very expensive party for three four five years yeah so yeah or six years I think six six years in the medical case yeah um so what's something like you know learning to code and becoming a software developer through like without going to University would you put that in the same category of like learning a trade like you've got the skill that's taken you a while to learn you don't necessarily need to go to university for it yeah I'll certainly say so because there's an employer I always employ on experience as opposed to um you know getting marks from University or whatever happens to be or exam results because I think experience for me always counts for a lot lot more than exam results yeah always thought that way yeah no absolutely it's it's the same for us like um you know I think a couple of our team members didn't go to university and I didn't even realize until like ages after we'd had it was like oh oh yeah that's yeah fair enough yeah it just seems a bit of a push way doesn't it I don't know what your parents were like but I'm assuming oh very much academics all the way forward it's just almost a given that you're going to go to university so I think is there three rules in your household the doctor lawyer or failure and that's the one yeah sometimes people put engineer in there instead of it but like doctor lawyer engineer or McDonald's those tend to be the the options that you have we're not we're not knocking McDonald's started there and done well as well so yeah um how so let's say someone is I don't know 16 17 18 listening to this and they're thinking I don't really know what I want to do the default seems to be well for a lot of people or I'll just go to UNI because quote it's useful to have a degree yeah um how should how would you approach kind of if you were advising someone and if they were like hey Mark I don't I don't really know what to do I'm 17. well one of the factors here personally I I would say and this didn't exist when I was younger it's not necessarily a year out but spend some time doing a lot of different jobs because doing a lot of different jobs you do find out what you don't like so we mentioned McDonald's there so you could flip burgers for two weeks if you wanted to learn the ropes of the McDonald's trade then quit then go on to your next job learn that job see what you didn't like from it take the things you did and then put them together in the third job you go to so I think taking a year away to find out what you don't like is a great way to do things and then if the choice is to go to university because you want to be XYZ that needs that then of course you go but the problem with going when you don't know what you want to do is that's a lot of debt that's a hell of a lot of debt and that debt at some Point's got to be paid off and you may never go into that job or use that degree ever again in your life so is a bit of a waste I think for a lot of people yeah yeah even in the UK where you know some people would say it's not really debt it's more like a graduate tax so it's only nine percent and you only have to pay off once you're earning more than 25k or whatever the number is do you think the debt thing is still a factor that people should seriously consider um I think so because I think it also limits their job options as well because most people that come out of University feel there of a certain level that you don't want to earn below a certain level and you are going to be paying it back nine times out of ten um but you also job trap yourself to a certain degree as well well most people that I know that have been to University that haven't got jobs are like well you know I can't find a job for my qualifications and you think well that's because you've studied something you didn't want to study in the first place and there wasn't any job opportunities for that and whoever promised you that University course was going to give you a good living at the end of it essentially lie to you because it's not there but it is a business University isn't it at the end of the day there's a lot of people making a lot of money pushing a lot of people through whether it's through the University whether it's through the accommodation or whether it's through student units or whatever it is there's a lot of money being out so I can understand why people push youngsters that way because in a way it's an easy option isn't it if you don't know what to do you've got three straight four years of wow I'm going to University I'm working hard everyone thinks I am but then the reality will hit after that so again not against University before anyone feels that way but I think a lot that go probably shouldn't yeah I think I'm I would I would broadly agree with that I think yeah in in some schools in some in some backgrounds it's just you know in my school like 100 of people went to University and it would it was like really weird if you didn't and the same at my son's school as well I mean my son every single person in his school leaving in his year went to University he deliberately did not go to the open days of the University because he knew he didn't want to go and if he went to the open days then they would probably coerce him into wanting to go you know like you can join this team you can be on that team you can do this the nightlife's great and he felt that it would hold him back and I think that's the bravest decision he's ever made because if everyone around you is going you say no I'm not you're actually the strong one in that situation and he's now built obviously a business with my what he built a business before we worked together but now we work together on YouTube and everything else that we doing on the podcast strike it big and it's it's a fantastic relationship because of that nice so you um were Carpenter join Over You said for three and a half years yeah will happen next in the career at this point you've been like 19 ish yeah 1920. but I always knew at 16 when I left school I wanted to be self-employed I'd done loads of different side hustles although they weren't called that oh yeah oh they were just um I used to go fishing used to catch fish at Dover catch a train the first thing in the morning for free come back and pretend I lost my ticket so very cost effective used to catch lots of mackerel we used to take them around the house in the states selling them which worked very very well as a youngster I used to buy and sell cars as well so I was flipping cars that's while I was a carpenter and Joiner so I used to do a car a week I'd always buy a car that I liked so if I couldn't sell it it didn't matter that would be my car but they were always escort Mark twos that's the car of choice and they always sold and I was buying it for about 300 pounds selling them between 500 and 600 so you double your money for a little bit of valeting and that's all it took during the week and then someone to come along we'd park it on a nice estate as well when they came to visit it so they'd give it a little bit of Kudos and um always did very well so always done lots of side hustles in fact I got to a stage where I actually ended up selling all of my time which I don't think a lot of people understand but you know when you're being paid an hourly rate at work and you're you're working every hour of the day Saturdays I'd work part-time in a model shop Sunday I'll be teaching people to fly model helicopters yeah I'd actually got to a point where I sold every bit of time I had and we went to fit um a staircase on a customer's house and I always remember it's really really rich guy and I spoke to him and I said yeah how can you have such a great lifestyle because this is what I want I don't know if he laughed or not but he said you know you've got to get your money to work for you and I went well how's that work so he explained you know about investing and having a little bit of a money starting to grow in the background he says if you think long term you'll do well if you think short term you'll lose your Investments he said so that was quite important at the time to me and at the point where you've sold all your time you've got no other way of earning money you know you're done aren't you you you're maxed out so uh that was quite a good Turning Point okay two two questions on that if I so one is um were you not concerned about things like work-life balance and all that stuff that is fashionable to talk about these days and very unfashionable to talk about kind of hustling and grinding and stuff if you're selling all of your time yeah how are you approaching that um well to be honest I was never really too bothered about finding the girls uh I'm not the best looking Chef in the world I understand that but I was quite a cheeky chappie normally had a girlfriend and it didn't work out hard at it I had a girlfriend finish with a girlfriend had another girlfriend and so on so that's just how it went um and I think a lot of people do spend a lot of time on trying to find the one and but I always believe the one will arrive if given enough time um so that was fine I had a good social life I enjoyed my enjoyed what I was doing and when you're for example because I love radio control model flying and that's what my main businesses are um being that age and being able to fly other people's models and teach them to fly on their models without having to buy them that was great fun anyway so I was having fun although my time was being sold so that's sort of how it worked but when I did meet the one which obviously everyone hopefully eventually does um I did say to her that you you need to understand I'm very selfish with my time and she thought what does that mean I said well when I have enough time to spend with you it'll be a hundred percent you know 100 if we're coming up to London or we're going out on a date we didn't have mobile phones there so it's less interruptive and if you had a date for an evening it'll be 100 of my commitment time and everything but in between that you might not hear from me or you might not see me and all the rest of it and she understood that and the long term Vision was and I think if you're on this and up front right from the start then that's good classic um it strikes me that the phrase selling your time isn't isn't isn't it is an interesting phrase like is that how you were thinking of it at the time or is that a sort of afterwards as you learned more about Finance you realize you were selling your time I think it was afterwards um I I realized that I couldn't earn any more than I was um because again there's no more time in the day to physically do it and I think lots of people get trapped by earning a daily amount of money and I think that's what I am worth that's the value I'm giving so that's what I get um you can only increase that by giving more value but eventually your time is limited and again we'll go back to the doctor analogy because this is what you are even as a doctor you can hire and can't you very very good earnings but that still caps at some point so let's say as a doctor you do a bit of private and all the rest of it I don't know quarter of a million a year something like that you're still capped at that that's it there's no more unless you make your money work for you um now obviously I wasn't at that amount I mean I was probably back in the day I don't know 15 20 000 something like that which was double what I was earning in my job way over double actually um so what can I do you are trapped and I realized it but it was explained later that you'd sold all your time I like that that phrasing selling your time I think it's you know there's that thing of there's nothing that ruins more dreams than uh the security of a a monthly salary or a daily wage um what's the Comfort isn't it yeah and I I think lots of people will moan about that they don't get paid enough um but they don't want to do anything about that and that's the crucial point it's that Comfort stage and when you're comfortable why do you need to do anything about it I'm comfortable I can moan about it about it whine about it but actually I am comfortable and that's dangerous position if you want to be rich you had this then this this conversation which is with the super rich guy that you were installing the the stairs for how did that change things for you um it made me look at investing what I would have liked is someone like myself or someone like you available to be able to look up and study because I I think YouTube has opened up what the schools haven't been able to provide and if we'd have had Financial lessons at school might have been hands up to go to it because I I've always liked earning money I've always liked you know Finding ways of making it but School teaches you to go out and find a job to earn money but it doesn't teach you what to do with that once you've got it and I think that's where YouTube has certainly jumped in and the whole reason we started the YouTube was because we were on a skiing trip and we noticed the ski in France up on the wall there um and we're in a chalet and I have told the story a few times but we're around a table there was four youngsters I say youngsters 18 19 year olds maybe a little bit older than that and for two hours after dinner all they talked about or asked questions about was business and finance and I didn't know where the time had gone I spoke to my son afterwards he said look that's two hours they were interested in what you had to say I said what are they teaching this and they went no so you know I think you get to a certain stage in business where you think this is all common sense common knowledge everyone knows this but actually it's the opposite they don't and you know they're eager to listen and to learn and to to move forward yeah absolutely okay so you so you have this conversation um as you're as you're installing the the staircase what happens the next day in your life um well I I left work started the business um and we're starting a business as well again a lot of people turn off on YouTube when you start talking business because they think it's all complicated and difficult and hard whereas actual fact is the the complete opposite uh most people I find when I talk to them think they have to know everything about business they've got to go to business school or or do business studies or go to university to study it and they're the people to go into business whereas the reality is we're all winging it I mean to a certain degree I would say you'll you've probably done the same with this business every single day is trying to mix it up as we go along and you learn the lessons as you go on and those lessons sometimes are hard learned they cost you some money but sometimes they make you a lot of money but whatever way it is it's a lesson and you don't forget it because you've learned it yourself it's not someone else telling you that lesson you've learned it and you move on from that and it's a great way to be um I think the advantage youngsters have now which they don't really see is everything things a possibility now when I was at school it was what are you gonna be well I do I wanted to be a pilot first of all I wanted to join the RAF and be a fighter pilot and drive those fast blow torches around the sky but I've got the bins and obviously from there on I that wasn't going to be a possibility so the only other thing I was good at was carpentry and joinery so I I stuck onto that but also I'd like to have been a racing car driver or I'd like to have been you know any multitude of different things but that was for someone else that that wasn't for me you know that wasn't possible you know that that was a barrier no you you've got to decide what you want to be and you've got to decide that now and you can't have anything to advance because you're never going to get there and that was quite a Hard Knock all the time very very hard not but that was common that was very common back then whereas today there's more kind of possibility in people's minds I think I think so yeah I mean again you went to University to study medicine and now you're into YouTube and social media and all this stuff and yeah you don't know where you're going to go but the possibilities are there aren't they you know if you had if you were at school now and you like motorsport for example and you thought well I could do that and you've been to the car circuit and you go I'm actually not too bad at this you know that that is actually a career path whether you can follow it or not that's down to you as an individual but it's a career path I thought it's just something yeah racing drivers did yeah I didn't know when came from it's just racing driver's job yeah I guess partly it's it's sort of like two things but like I think for me I was very lucky in the sense of you know being born in the right place the right side of parents privilege and all that kind of stuff but I think also there's an informational advantage that people have today that they didn't back in the day it's like today if you think you want to be a whatever you can just Google it and someone will have made a day in the life of a whatever video yeah and you can literally see the YouTube channels of F1 drivers and see what they're up to date today and you think huh that's interesting or you can listen to them on a three hour long podcast where they literally break the break down their entire Journey yeah so I think that's like yeah one of the one of the really cool things and in a way like I've I've spoken to a lot of people recently who feel that again to your point the university industrial complex takes in all of these like varied and interesting individuals and spits them out to become an identical automaton going to consulting or whatever other you know accounting or whatever you know obviously consultant accountants all good just using that as an example I mean for you to switch from being in medical in medicine to what you're doing now I mean that that must have been a very brave move um I think once the business started to do well it felt less less like bravery and more like common sense um and and the tide was already slowly starting to turn and then maybe in my ear five percent of people were like I don't really I don't really want to do medicine these days I speak to medical students and they're like 30 of my year group they realize they don't want to do medicine so it seems like again I think with the availability of information and like social media the internet Etc people are realizing that the path that they are set on at the age of 16 at least in the UK where you start choosing your yeah a levels and stuff it's not necessarily the path you have to continue following for the rest of your life but 10 years ago if you'd become a doctor you'd have done that till the day you retired yeah probably and there were very few examples of like you know people starting uh inventing a surgical equipment or something like that that's what I imagined I would do I was like I'm gonna be a doctor forever and on the side I'm going to try and invent some kind of tech thing yeah um but even then that was because when I was like 13 I started making websites for money and so I already had that business thing going on the side yeah whereas most people weren't thinking in those ways and were just focused on getting through the but that's the entrepreneurial Spirit yeah you know and I think that's in from a very early age uh regardless of who you are um I don't think you can be taught that um you can be taught business without a doubt and you can learn business and you can have a go and you can learn invest in you can have a go but entrepreneurial Spirit you can't just say I'm going to become an entrepreneur you know it's what you are how did you so do you think that someone something people someone can develop I think um 90 of people can can be pretty good at whatever they decide they want to be if they're dedicated enough to it but to be a hundred percent good at it that's that's the heart bit and that's the difference isn't it really yeah between most people because I think in a way you've gotta you've got to enjoy it as well yeah like I was I was interviewing um A Child Called Marcus yesterday who's like an Olympic medalist in tennis and I asked him kind of if you want to become a professional tennis player what's that what's the balance between like a discipline and just sort of pushing through it and he was like it's just impossible like unless you've genuinely enjoy it it's impossible to just get punched in the face repeatedly yeah which is what happens when you're trying to play professional tennis I mean I chose radio control models was my main business but that's because I was so into it yeah and I I was pretty good at it as well you know I traveled the world representing the UK team um and we did quite well as a team as well we got bronze medals a European championships and World Championships so that that's pretty good and that helps build that business as well so if you've got a passion for the thing you enjoy and you can see a way to make money from it is great but it's no good at just being a passion because some passion businesses just go down the pound because they don't look at the business side of it first and I was always very much this is my hobby side of what I do for my business this is my business you know and they're two completely different things you know when you're doing it as a hobby you can be friends with everyone when you're doing it as a business you can't you know it's as simple as that yeah it's the same analogy that I so um in my course we teach people how YouTubers um and one of the things I always ask people is are you treating YouTube as a hobby or are you treating YouTube as a business and you can't say 50 50 on both because you know you've got it you've got to pick a side because that radically changes the way you approach it yeah if you're treating YouTube as a hobby great make videos about whatever you feel like Follow Your Passion all that kind of stuff if you're treating it like a business then let's analyze the market let's figure out how you're going to stand out let's like you know take it treat it treat it like an actual business person would treat a business yeah rather than hoping that hey if I just do my hobby thing it'll just magically make me money um so how did you decide that you wanted to so what was the business that you initially started and how did you decide to go down that route uh the initial business again was right at control models I bought a shop because the only way you could start a real business like that was having a shop I mean I'd done the side hustle part of it which was repairing people's models on the side and teaching people to fly them um but the next logical step was to to get a shop so that's what I did um and from day one it was very good how did you get a shop like well yeah well basically I just went I did a business plan I spent weeks and weeks and weeks drawing up this business plan I tried to cover everything I could I worked part-time for someone so I knew what I needed to do um he actually stole my plans which was a pain to be honest but I wasn't quite ready to go he actually opened a shop exactly where I was going to open it with the same name as well he stole everything um completely other another story but I did a business plan when I was ready which is six months following this and on this business plan it laid out what we could make what my expertise was where we were going to do it rents everything took it to um the bank manager and he turned me down flat he didn't even give me really the time of day it was literally well you've made an appointment I've got to see you but no okay yeah if I could sum it up any better than I would but that was what it felt like to me and I came out of the bank and I went well this is either dead in the water never going to happen or I've got to go forward with it and try and do something and when you've been slapped pretty hard like that it is actually quite hard to see a positive so I could have turned right I could have turned left so I decided to turn right the bank next door next door but one was Barclays I went in there I said I've got an appointment with the manager and they went oh you're not down I went oh and I definitely it's a 11 o'clock yeah I'm a bit early maybe that's it no no you oh we'll let you see him anyway so I went in and saw him um gave him the business plan spoke about and he went yeah I want to back here he said I'll be your first customer oh well just like that pretty good in it that's pretty good yeah I think he had um a certain amount of money that they had to potentially lend out to start-up businesses um and obviously we had to cover it with you know the the the property I had and various other things but it was a yes it was a definite yes and that was a big thing all right we're just going to take a quick break from this episode to introduce our sponsor which is very excitingly heal now heal is great because I've been a customer of Hill for the last six years and also we've got an interview with Julian Hearn who is the founder of huel on this podcast so can check that out it'll be on the YouTube channel on the Spotify page and that wasn't a fantastic master class in entrepreneurship but anyway we're talking about heal because heal is a fantastically complete meal so if you're like me and you have a fairly busy life and you don't necessarily make the time to shop and cook and prep and wash up like a healthy 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Store and if you use the coupon code Ali Ali at the checkout that will give you a totally free share worth up to 100 pounds it's available on iPhone and Android and you can check it out by typing in trading 212 into your respective App Store so thank you so much trading212 for sponsoring this episode like my brother is a tech startup founder and so I'm familiar with that side of things where they've got like Venture Capital backing yeah but I just never really clocked that you can literally walk into a bank with a business plan on a piece of paper and ask them for money is is that how it works I'm not sure you get it now yeah um but back then certainly it was a business plan okay I think when you had managers back then the managers of a branch would have you know the final say over quite a lot of things nowadays it would probably go for all sorts of committee and different things but yeah it's literally a business loan it was a startup loan it wasn't for the amount I needed even with what I had it wasn't enough but if the business was successful enough for the first two months it would be enough and uh that that's the way I worked it and first day when we opened up I was so skinned I had nothing yeah I didn't even have enough fuel to get home I took a sleeping bag and put in the back of the van I had because if I didn't take any money I wasn't able to get home that night wow but that's full commitment isn't it yeah and if you're gonna do anything commit yeah because then there's no option it works or it doesn't but you're gonna do as much as you can to make that work we're not worried that you're gonna like lose the house and like all of the fears that would yeah actually I was 20. what's the worst that can happen when you're 20. this is the thing I can't seem to get through to a lot of people what's the worst thing you lose what you have you're 20. you've got all your life ahead of you to restart something else I mean how exciting is that it's brilliant you know everything's on the line did you have that perspective when you were 20. I feel like when I was 20 I was like oh if I lose everything if I get kicked out of medical like suddenly my life is over yeah but I couldn't see it going wrong okay but it was exciting so it's that excitement is what you want and that drives you on and we had a crack in day yeah you know I say that now it's just over a hundred pounds we took just over and to this day and this is another thing in retail that amazes me we've never ever had a day where we've taken less than 100 pound on a day we've opened ever even in the early days um and what amazes me is people have to decide to come to your shop particularly back then no internet no eBay all that sort of thing so they've got to come to your shop make that active decision to come in and buy something and uh I always thought you guys have a day when no one decides to come to your shop haven't you but we never have quite amazing isn't it that's amazing um oh what okay I've got a friend who's super into um Burgers he just loves Making burgers makes burgers for his friends and he says one day I really want to open like a burger shop or like a burger van or something like that if that person was on your ski trip being like hey Mark how do I how do I turn this into a business what would be the steps that you would follow today assuming you can't just walk into Barclays and be like hey can I have a loan well the problem with food is 80 of food Ventures fail okay so it's a pretty bad statistic and particularly restaurants um so the best plan of attack is to be the 20 not the 80 straight away so there you go that's the best advice you can have because that's the that's the one that's going to win you've got to have something a bit different as well and again with Burgers it's very difficult isn't it because you would think well I would I'm not into Burgers um but you would think everything's been done and then you look at um one Burger outlet that we went in in the states In and Out Burgers all right the simplest menu you ever did see okay so there's three different options they're just the same Burger made in three different ways and they were absolutely flat out my son who's sitting over there absolutely loved it kept taking me back to this place I was like guys I found it I did a chicken burger as well it'd be great but because I specialize and their menu is so small you know people know what they're going there for and they do a very very good job of it so I would probably say to anyone that's going to start and do a burger van or something like that make it simple and make it so you can repeat what you do and when someone comes back the next week because they enjoyed your burger make sure it's just as good it's exactly the same as it was the last time they had it because the worst thing you can do is making this wonderful burger and then the next week I'm going to cut down on the cheese I'm going to cut a little bit thinner I'm gonna just you know I'm gonna now start portioning the sauce a little bit less because these are key savings to make my business work better and put more profit on my own margin but as soon as you start destroying that product or or bringing it down from what people like it just gets worse and worse and worse and you might get a third visit if you won't get a fourth you know the second visits because they enjoyed the first one the third visit was because they thought the second one well maybe you made a bit of a mistake but I'm still after that Ultimate Burger I had the first time I came I think I'm in a fourth time for something that wasn't as good as the first time so for a business like that that requires some level of startup Capital how would you approach finding the money assuming you don't have Rich parents to give it to you the three F's friends families and fools okay because they're out there aren't they yeah why why borrow it from somewhere where you don't where you've got to pay that interest back so those are your free places to start with If You Get Enough from that then you can go to the banks the banks will give you some money without a doubt so then you can go that way I've never gone to a venture capitalist ever I've never done fundraising never gone down that route obviously some businesses need it because they have to go through this and I hate this word burn stage burn stage well we're then burn into money yeah you know trying to build that brand yeah you know if you've got a good brand it should pretty much Start organically growing um so I hate a burn stage and people that tend to um raise money in that way do 10 things I've got plenty of money we can do that we can do that before you know it's gone so a lack of money or certainly a small amount of money at the start is actually a bit of a superpower because it makes you make the most of all your free advertising everything that's available to you to make you know the best decisions from so it depends what it needs I mean if it's a startup Burger van how much can that really cost I mean you need a van you need to adapt it do it yourself if you can you've got your recipe you've got your menu ten fifteen thousand find a pitch nowadays you're more likely to have to pay for a decent pitch but back in my day you'd have just wheeled up wherever you wanted to and put your sign out yeah but just keep turning up keep doing it yeah you know it's uh it's all doable but uh you know a lot of people will put excuses all along the way of course yeah yeah I think especially for like this is probably why I really like you know when when people ask me oh you know I want to get rich what do I do often I'm like okay well there's a lot of books you can read and stuff but like if you learn how to code that is a very good way to get into the business thing because almost every software business that you start does not need startup Capital you can get your ten thousand dollars of Amazon web services credit for free you don't need to spend 15K on a van um and you can almost kind of be profitable from day one you're not in that burn stage where crap I've just spent 15 grand and now I need to recoup that over the next five years and then I'll become profitable and the other beauty of a digital product is you can obviously be anywhere in the world producing that digital product so your overheads can be cut to an absolute minuscule amount if you want to and you can be in a beautiful part of the world for very little money producing your product so yeah digital products are fantastic yeah yeah similarly I get I get emails from people being like hey can you do a video about passive income ideas from Pakistan and I'm like well no because I'm not in Pakistan right now but also like passive income ideas from Pakistan is the same as passive in commodities on the internet anywhere else because the internet is not localized so I think there's definitely something to be said for using the power of the internet which wouldn't have been a thing back in your day to start businesses that can benefit from that location Independence and also the scale and the trouble you mentioned passive income most people's definition of that is it's a business that's going to give me money I haven't got to do anything but the the real definition of a passive uh business is it's going to cost you either time or money or combination of the two so whatever way you look at it you know it's not really passive you know it's got to have that initial investment of time or money or both um let's go back to this guy that you were um installing the stairs for so it strikes me that there are two directions you could you could have gone from there the guy's saying to telling you you know make your money work work for you and I'm going to use the terminology from MJ DeMarco who might be familiar with where it's like you can go down the slow lane approach or the fast lane approach and the slow lane would be okay I'm making I don't know 2K a month my costs are 1.8k I can save 10 of my paycheck every month and I can put it into the S P 500 yeah and someone I watched a video on YouTube from Ali Abdullah telling me that Warren Buffett says you should invest in the S P 500 great yeah that money is growing by seven percent here by the time I'm 55 I should it should be worth a million versus I'm going to take that spare 200 quid and I'm going to use it to start my own business what do you think about those two different well I use the combination of the two um I've always put away approximately 10 of what I earn into an index fund always from from about 18. nice so I'm sorted aren't I you know because you know that that was always going to become a big amount I can draw down on it now if I want but of course why would I I've got 10 years of hopefully amazing growth and but I've also gone hopefully part way down the fast lane um and that is obviously open in a business investing in myself investing in the business and pushing that forward um there's lots of hurdles along the way though you know like shops were a great thing to have when I started you know the model shops and we you know built those shops up to various you know several different shops um but then of course the internet hits and then having brick stores isn't the way to be so you've got to adapt that business um so now we're talking 35 years on from when I start did and we're still in business doing a similar thing but we're doing it in a completely different way so I think an entrepreneur sees um answers as opposed to hurdles or they might see a hurdle they get over it and move on you know they don't get stuck by it and that's what we try and do so 35 years ago when you started the business were you thinking you know 35 years later I'm still going to be doing this so we're more like short-term in Europe um I would say it was a lifetime sort of uh business at the time definitely um because I think most passion businesses are um I think the ones that aren't and the ones with the exit strategies are more Tech type businesses um and if I was advising your friend with the berica van um I would probably say that the the main thing to focus on is your exit to be perfectly honest where where is it going where's your finish stage because if you don't have an exit stream strategy you haven't got anything that's sellable so a few years back probably 10 years back I decided that wasn't something I had an exit strategy at all to the business I was in and so I've made it or adapted it so at any point should I now want to sell it I have a role in exit strategy so year on year on year and it's now a turnkey business as opposed to being fully dependent on myself which it was obviously we had staff but you know you take take me out of it 10 years ago it wouldn't have operated but now it will operate very well with the staff that we had again uh refer to yourself similar to yourself you have a very good team behind you and once you have a very good team then the business can roll on a daily basis yeah I think the thing for me is you know people uh that was in uh Miami earlier this week everyone's there was like multi-million 10 million agencies and talking about selling to private equity for 20x profit and I was just like yeah I don't think I have an extra strategy but for me and this business I didn't really think of his business but I feel like I don't really want an exit strategy um the for me making YouTube videos interviewing people writing books and stuff that's more like a lifestyle Choice rather than a quick business or similar to my lifestyle yeah because the enjoyment was there so you know it rolled and rolled and the enjoyment came yep every day yeah that's a great thing with enjoying what you do isn't it yeah it's a fun time you know you are going to work and yes you do work hard but the work you do you enjoy so it's you're rewarded every day yeah absolutely and I guess further down the line if I did decide okay this is no longer that fun let's now let's maybe figure out an extra strategy license the IP there's you know there's then things that you can do to build a cell as it were um just to take things back to complete Basics what is a business if someone's listening to this and they're like I feel like the word business is you know we're talking about exit strategies you know I just threw out you know 20x profit for someone who doesn't understand what's going on it's like the word business can feel very daunting so how would you break that down like most simply well if you want to boil it down to really the brass tanks it's buying something and selling it for a profit that's the brass tax of business isn't it really uh or producing something and adding value to it selling it for a profit so it can be as simple as a side hustle and the reason side hustle is so popular I think on YouTube is because people don't think it's a business where of course it is a business it's only when you go into scale that the problems obviously come but a side hustle essentially is a business and no one's scared or very few people are scared of a little side hustle yeah but they're scared of doing a business yeah that's true but really they're the same thing just slightly bigger um a lot of people think business is when you start employing people of course it's not is way before that but the employment thing is a is a big Trigger or a hard point to get over when you get to that stage so when you're selling or when you're repairing model airplanes on the side would is that a business um I would say it is okay because you become known for it if you're known for something and that's what you do I would say well it is a business because it was the start of a business as well without that the business wouldn't have started it wouldn't have had the capital to be able to start you know what I was earning from that you know made me more money so if you take um the repair in people's models scenario I was working part-time in a model shop so I had quite a lot of customer base from that I wouldn't go out and teach and fly that crash their model it would need repairing that or if they didn't crash it I would be able to suggest how we could make that model fly better and my specialty was radio control helicopter so there was always upgrades always so or what you need on that you need a new metal head or the titanium tail boom or whatever happened to be that would improve it for you and it'd be like I don't know how to do that well leave it with me when we come back for a lesson next week I'll have it all done for you so you've got the spare parts I was buying with a trade discount because I'm working in a store so that's great you sell it full price you've got the repair costs and labor maybe an hour always charged to the hour that's always a good tip you know if it takes you half an hour your minimum's an hour and you had you supplied it back they were going to be there the following weekend because they wanted to pick up their pride and joy so they're not going to not turn up for their lesson so it's actually that is a business yeah you know and it's only then scaling it that people have the issue with ah interesting yeah I like that definition of business it makes it feel a lot less daunting because I think even like before I think yeah for me when I was doing my web design type stuff I was we are really thinking of myself as a business I or even trying trying to act as if I was a bigger agency than I actually was there's one manager for hoping people give me work but yeah the word business does seem very daunting to people and thinking of it as this you're you're taking a thing you're buying a thing you're adding value to it and you're selling it for profit it's strange isn't it really also the other hard thing when you're doing it as a side hustle is understanding what you're worth as well because your value you're adding quite often is a lot more than you're charging for as well so if you're charging an hourly rate of 30 pounds 40 pounds fifty per hundred pounds yeah and you are booked out yep I mean it's obvious to look at that now and go well it's worth more than that I should have charged more but at the time you think you're charging about the right amount and that's why you're busy but you know you could you could let's say you double the amount you charged and you lost a quarter of the people you're earning more money yeah and you're working less time and that's quite a hard lesson to learn when you're starting out in business why do you think people have such a an aversion to price and money um they forget political um I think before um I'll say it before Margaret Thatcher came into Power because I always blame her a little bit for everyone trying to get the best price on everything before that I think it I always felt it was what something cost was what something cost you went and you bought it and I think she brought a lot of americanisms in where you you know you question the price and you ask for a discount and all that sort of thing so I would say that's where that stemmed from and of course now it's a worldwide market with the web and the web in certain aspects is a race to the bottom on price particularly with the likes of Amazon and all the rest of them with their bolt buying power and not having to declare profits and all the rest of it um so people are always after a bargain now and I think that I would say that's where it started in my opinion before then it was you paid the price and like I think the there's also an interesting phenomenon on the other side so my my singing teacher Josh it's charging like I'm glad you're having lessons by the way oh yeah I need it um my singing teacher Josh it was charging like I think like 30 quid an hour initially and is ridiculously qualified it literally has performed in Broadway musicals and has done TV work and is amazing I was like why are you charging 30 quite an hour and he was like oh I don't feel right I don't feel right charging 35 or 40. even though his business is not particularly profitable because we were talking about it I was like dude surely just like double the prices because you know that thing yeah maybe you lose 25 of your customer who cares you double your prices do you can always come back yeah and he felt like he he said he felt bad increasing the prices because he felt like it wasn't worth he wasn't worth it even the people were willing to pay do you see that kind of thing at all amongst amongst people that you talk to I think a lot of people under charge I mean I used to race um cars full-sized cars it was a great hobby by the way if you ever get into it it's fantastic um I don't now I sponsor someone in the British touring cars but I used to race cars and I used to have a guy used to do a lot of the mechanic him for me on that car and I'll deliver it to him and tell me what he's done and he said 75 quid sorry about that and I think God expecting 200 pounds on that bill and like I have 124 really yeah yeah you have it he went out of business he was in business as a mechanic for about four or five years went out of business and I know why he went out of business I told him why he was gonna go out business and he wasn't charging enough you know but he was so afraid and I don't know why people don't try because trying to charge a little more is an experiment in business isn't it and you push it to as far as you can because you can only make that profit once from that customer you know you don't want to rip anyone off I would never say go and rip people off but you're providing value and it's what you put as that value and that's an important amount of money if your customers think what you're doing is worth more than you're giving them I mean why does anyone listen hmm yeah why why do you think people have that fear that fear of charging more I think they think they'll lose everyone or feel they're ripping someone off yeah they don't value their skill enough which is a shame because skills take a long time to establish so again if you want to boil it down to learning to fly a Model helicopter that to the stage from from getting an RC helicopter all those years ago and they were hard to fly I mean they didn't really fly they beat the air into submission basically but to learn to fly Model helicopter took me a best part of a year to get to the stage where I could teach now some people it took a lot longer than that but for me it took a year that is a lot of flying time parts spare parts when you break the model that's a lot of investment isn't it and you've got to get that back so it's got to be worth something yeah absolutely I think when I first started charging for for our course about 200 years ago I was so scared I was like oh I'm gonna people are gonna think I'm a sellout like I've built an audience off of free content and now I'm gonna charge for something oh my God and then like it's kind of expensive so like the people in modernity can't afford it are going to think I'm a terrible person and there were all these fears I had around money and I think what was underlying that was the idea that money is evil and making money is bad and making money by charging people for things is worse and I just had there was a lot of untangling I had to do was that something that you've you've come across I've never struggled with it really um with I mean you get people knocking Drop Shipping don't you oh you've bought that from Alibaba for ten dollars and you're selling it to me for thirty dollars that's a rip-off well what do Walmart do what do Sainsbury's do what do all these companies do they buy for a low price they sell for a high price and the value they put in between is why they can get that profit why why would you say that's a ripoff it's not a rip-off that's what I want to sell that product for so why should you struggle with that yeah if no one wants to buy it then then you then I've got a problem because I can't earn the margin I need to survive in business I either I've got to change my business model or I've got to look at my margins and see if I can you know rely on less but there's always a figure that you can't do less than it's just not worth your while if you're not earning money what is the point and the thing with courses I mean I I only provide free content as you're aware um and I don't have a problem with courses I think courses such as your own and others are very good and provide excellent value but of course there is the other side of it and you know the people that that produce better courses and they they are a rip-off without a doubt you know so it's very hard to justify the cost of yours but you know the effort that's gone into what you're producing again that's the value you're adding and if that's good value then you should never be ashamed to charge for it ever the fact that you can now sell millions of a digital product that's immaterial you still put that value in yeah yeah I think another thing that I have appreciated over time is sort of I think cost based versus value-based pricing where I think people are in are often thinking oh this only took me half an hour or therefore I'll charge based on that versus that half an hour has added 500 Grand in sales to this this company that you've just tweaked the headline for so let's charge based on the value we've provided rather than the cost it costs us to do the thing yeah well it goes to like a story of the guy that fixes the computer I mean a guy goes to this massive computer place let's call it IBM and they don't know what's wrong with their big blue computer or whatever it was called at the time and he turns up he looks around and he takes out a component puts a new component bam it goes into life and he says there's my invoice 20 000 pounds and they said twenty thousand pound you're only here five minutes yeah but it took me years to know what component to take out to make that work that's my value do you want to take it back out yeah no right okay twenty thousand pounds hopefully and also if that computer is printing them like a hundred thousand pounds a minute it's like you know exactly to them there's five minutes or worth 500k yeah so but you know that that knowing that component might have taken him yeah fifty thousand hours of gaining knowledge to know that's the component that you need to change so they're actually paying a proportion of that fifty thousand hours of learning yeah true I'm paying for it back um so what is what is your model business do these days what does it look like what does it look like um at the moment we have um a couple of shops um that sell direct to public uh they also sell on eBay and also via the website um there's still a very big enjoyment for me and if I get time I'm behind the counter from time to time not not as much as I'd like to be but I still get a kick out of of selling a product particularly if someone comes in and they don't know what they're buying and I can explain yeah ask them yeah who they're buying it for what they want it to do and all the rest of it and I can explain the best package and they go yeah I'll have that that's that's that's quite a kick you know you you know it's really nice and you know they're gonna love the product and that's brilliant so that's the shop side of the business then we also have a design import manufacturing and distribution business as well um and we manufacture in China and also in Vietnam and they're my own designs that we we manufacture um and the best selling one of those designs is a model called the riot which is a model airplane I designed that when I was 14 in a geography lesson as well well yeah it took me years to make it and the reason it took so long is because there used to be a product leader in the market and I had a deal with him because I knew he was getting quite old that when he retired he would pass those desire rights for me and I'd continue that brand and he'd have a royalty um but liking business always a bit of backstabbing some one somewhere down the line and he passed it to someone else and I said well yeah listen I said well I promised that to him before I said well you could have let me know but I had all these models that I designed as a kid and I went right here we go let's let's get them manufactured and now we are more prolific than the models we would have taken on because they're better of course and I designed those because I couldn't afford the kits when I was a Youngster you know so I'd use the woodwork lessons well after school they had a woodwork lesson I'd cut out the sides of the models and use the technical drawing tables as well to do the final designs you know use what you've got available for free a bit like where you start a business use your advertising tools that are free use everything you can don't just go how much does this cost to advertise and give them all your money you know it's about using what you've got this episode is very kindly brought to you by wework now this is particularly exciting for me because I have been a full paying customer of wework for the last two years now I discovered it during you know when the pandemic was in the on the verge of being lifted and I'd spent like the whole year just sort of sitting in my room making YouTube videos but then I discovered wework and I was a member me and Angus my team members we were members of the wework in Cambridge and they have like hundreds of other locations worldwide as well and it was incredible because we had this fantastic beautifully designed office space to go to to work and we found ourselves like every day just at nine o'clock in the morning just going to wework because it was a way nicer experience working from the co-working space than it was just sitting at home working these days what me and everyone in my team has is the all access pass which means you're not tied to a specific wework location but it means you can use any of their several hundred co-working spaces around London around the UK and also around the world and one of the things I really love about the co-working setup is that it's fantastic as a bit of a change of scenery so these days I work from home I've got the studio at home but if I need to get some focused writing work done and I've been I'm feeling a bit drained just sitting at my desk all day I'll just pop over to the local wework which is about a 10 minute walk from where I am I'll take my laptop with me I'll get some free coffee from there I'll get a few snacks and it's just such a great Vibe and you get to meet cool people I've made a few friends through meeting them at wework and it's just really nice being in an environment almost like a library but kind of nicer because there's like a little bit of soft music in the background and there's other kind of startup Bros and creators and stuff in in there as well and it's just my absolute favorite co-working space of all time it's super easy to book a desk or book a conference room using the app and it's a great place to meet up with team members if you're going to collaborate and you'll live in different places they've got unlimited tea and coffee and herbal teas and drinks on tap and they've also got various kind of after work events that happen like happy hours and yoga and a few other exercise type things and you can also take in guests so often when guests will come over to visit I'll say hey let's pop into wework and we'll just work from there for the whole day and then we'll go out for dinner sometime in the evening anyway if you're looking for a co-working space for you or your team then I'd 100 recommend we work like I said I've been a pain customer for theirs for the last two years which is why it's particularly exciting that they're now sponsoring this episode and if you want to get 50 off your first booking then do head over to we.com forward slash Ali and you can use the coupon code Ali at checkout Ali to get 50 of your first booking so thank you so much wework for sponsoring this episode it's so cool hearing about physical businesses um I guess you know these days really the only businesses you hear about often the ones interviewed on podcasts are like online and internet businesses like oh marketing agency or PR digital media or content or courses or any physical software but like physically designing a product getting it manufactured and selling it to a physical customer that's got to feel pretty good because yeah you do the online stuff as well what's it what's is there a difference a different kind of enjoyment in the two uh from online sales there's very little enjoyment unfortunately I I don't really like online sales although they're a big part of our business um there's no emotional attachment to an online sale apart from seeing the figures at the end of the day which oh that's great that makes me feel good um that's it yeah um but what is nice is when you sell all this stuff and you don't see these customers and I go and visit different flying clubs or whatever happens to be or I'm racing model airplanes which I'm doing this weekend as well and you go to his club and half the models at this club are the models you designed and you go wow look at that yeah yeah that that came from my pen and I must have come through me at some stage and that's pretty pretty powerful stuff really hmm nice with I I've just got a few specific questions about the shop shop stuff because it's weird for me um do you have to like buy stock in bulk in advance and then stick it in a warehouse and then you're hoping to sell it over time is is that how it works um it can be it depends how you do it I mean we ship from China 40 foot containers um and if you look at model airplanes again going back to the one we just spoke about you can get uh 550 of those in 140 foot container so obviously you're you're having to get containers on a let's say a monthly basis um so on that side of the business yes you've got to buy in bulk because we're supplying not only end users we're supplying other model shops as well around the country and we also license the product to um or used to to a guy in Germany who isn't there any longer but also to a guy in America so they they actually have the manufactured at source under our license and they go out um so yeah you do have to buy in bulk on that side of the business on the other side of the business the shop business really yes you used to have to buy in more bulk but because now it's a more competitive market and you probably don't have to do that now and also your website can show Warehouse stock potentially that you don't have we try not to do that route we try to have everything we show on our websites in stock at least a single item because you know you get an order for it you want to fulfill it straight away um so the only company we deal with where we have to buy it well in advance and to the maximum we think we're going to sell is actually Hornby Hobbies okay because they're very very I'll put this on record very backwards in the way they do business you know they want to know exactly what they're going to sell for the year they want those orders in advance so they can manufacture it which I I think is the wrong way to go about things when when we first moved to the UK I was eight years old and we were living in Wiltshire a little town called devises and there was a toy shop there yeah and I used to go there and buy these like mini airplane things and like you know they would have the whole thingy of like the Revel paints and the glues yeah the plastic kits I'll get like a seven pound 99 one for my birthday and that has been ages like painting the bits and then I realized you could paint them before you put the thing on and it makes it way easier and that was like my hobby when I was a kid and my brother and I went back a couple of years ago and the same sort of same shop was there the same kind of stuff um we bought ourselves some Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh cards just for old time's sake um but yeah didn't it no I wish if only yeah yeah there was this is something so nice about um just the the tactile nature of like a physical hobby which I feel like I don't I don't really do anymore but also the visit to the shop yeah it's lovely isn't it yeah you can talk to them and be like hey how much enjoyment do you get from I'll have one of those zero less than zero so that's the same for me selling you that product yeah you come into my shop as I explained before and you ask about something and I can give you years years of advice years of help you know that that that will be perfect for you and you've had that experience of coming in and buying why have we decided that the internet's better hmm what a shame I think it's it's the same kind of thing uh you know if I make a video telling you to teaching someone the step-by-step method to starting a YouTube channel it's very different to sitting down in front of someone and saying the same stuff but seeing the like oh in there you can see the light bulb yeah you can see kind of the ideas wearing and stuff which you just don't get over the Internet um but yeah internet zero cost big scale exactly there's lots of you know pros and cons so so you've got this model business right now what other businesses do you have what else what are the streams of Revenue in your life well there's all sorts of streams of Revenue obviously investing as a stream of Revenue but everything I invest in gets reinvested anyway um YouTube obviously is a revenue stream as well which is shared 50 50 with my son um and obviously there's a lot of cost to YouTube that people don't realize I mean all this equipment it all costs money doesn't it and to do a professional setup we reinvest a lot of money I don't know what the percentages are but it's a lot of money um and that's a good Revenue stream for me now but it was never started for that reason you know it was started purely to pass on these years of knowledge and I say to a lot of people to give 35 years worth of life experience you got to look about 55 and that's just the way it is yeah um so it wasn't done initially to to be a revenue stream but of course it certainly is now yeah that's so kind of model business with the manufacturing arm and also the the Commerce arm and then the YouTube thing Allah sorry I mean I guess active income yeah and then investing and stuff on exactly I'm a very keen reinvestor so um I don't really take much out from investing the only time I really have is when I bought one of my warehouses because it was during the.com bubble and I took it out and Bam it went down and I did it a week really before the bubble burst it was fantastic so we're gonna have a little bit of luck along um changing gears a bit what is your take on buying versus renting a house I like to buy I not only like to buy a light to buy and pay off oh interesting yes I know well I'm very um I'm very uh borrowing avert although we spoke about boring earlier borrowing for a means I understand um the loan that started my business was paid back within two and a half three years and it was a 20-year loan so 20 year 15-year loan um I like to pay back loans I like to know what I've got I'd like to know what's mine now if I did it all again I would be less alone yeah less um avert to borrowing money and using money to make more money so my advice on that or my tips would be don't be uh loan avert because money can make money if you've got access to it you can make money from it but I would say on buying property for me your key property you live in buy it own it get it paid for it can't be taken away from you you've got such security for you your family and your wife for the rest of your life you know on res a residential property I buy to rent out or commercial property I buy to rent out obviously I'll borrow and I'll let that run the term although most of my commercial property is paid off now oh nice but you get to a certain stage in life I mean again we mentioned 55 yeah then you want to be secure yep you know all these things as you gradually secure things off you feel safer with the future and how things are going to go um so although I'm not avert to borrowing some money for a good project um I would always Endeavor to try and get that paid off for me as quickly as I can my son is the opposite but then he's 24 and has a lot of time to go over those stages of paying down yeah yeah that makes a lot of sense um what are the so you guys have a ridiculously enormous following across all of the social medias which is fantastic you've done a fantastic job over the last two years yeah last two and a bit years of doing the YouTube stuff um what are the main what are the main questions that you get from from your audience around Finance uh probably what should I invest in to make me Rich tomorrow almost you know okay um and it doesn't matter how much um we preach or or put over long-term invest in his long-term wealth it's it's very hard to get their message over and I I think with the instant access of everything to youngsters nowadays it probably is hard to understand that you know you've got these small amounts to gain a big amount in the future so I always bang on about index funds we've already mentioned before if you've not got an index fund running in a nicer why haven't you you know it is it's one of the simplest things that you can do as an individual the most tax efficient thing you can do as an individual you are going to be a millionaire if you put an amount of a decent coffee away every day into your index fund sorted you know and that's your safety net and now again a lot of people say you shouldn't have a safety net you should be 100 in on what you're doing but that's always been my safety net I always thought from the day I started putting into an index fund I would never ever touch that money now I'm at a stage where I could touch it if I wanted to I can touch my pensions if I wanted to I don't need to I have other revenue streams bringing the money in it is just there just in case it's almost a reminder that you made that money you can make it again you don't need to touch it why do I need to touch it yeah yeah I've been preaching the ISA Index Fund strategy to my friends in years this is so obviously if it wasn't so good it wouldn't be limited to 20 grand a year would it it would be a open pot but as much as you want it in so it's just obvious you know you just got to get on board and take the small losses when they come keep putting in don't worry about it forget about it it's working in the distance when you don't come out of your house if you own a house you don't come out of your house house every day and go oh it's gone down five percent today yeah of course you don't because it's still there isn't it you're not selling it you're living in it you don't worry about that sort of thing as you shouldn't worry about your index funds just keep putting in historically they've raised eight percent a year yeah it can't go wrong with that yeah and if anyone need the primary index funds we'll put some of my videos and your videos in the video description and show notes so you can you can get a get a primer on them um any advice for people who are who don't have large amounts of disposable income who think oh I'd love to start investing but I'll do it I don't have enough money right now make more money you can only save so much money I was expecting you to talk about tips for budgeting and stuff but this is interesting like what do you mean yeah make more money you know you could save so much so you get paid a thousand pound a month for argument's sake okay if you saved every penny of that that's a thousand pounds wow that's all you can do there's no limit to how much you can make so make more money you know you've got to budget because you've got a budget if you don't budget you don't know where it's gone so 100 budget but make more money how do you do that like someone might be listening to this thing well okay people like going to a bar yeah yeah they like going to a pub well go to the pub but be the other side of the bar get yourself a part-time job you've got all the social side of going to the bar and being in a pub and you're getting paid for it yeah you know that's just one example there's hundreds of examples you know it's you just make more money it sounds so simple it is isn't it though if you think about it I mean if someone said to you right it you need to invest five pounds a day into an index fund and you and some new Terminator I I don't have five pound left in the whole of your day taking out your day of work you can earn five pounds somewhere doing something of course you could it could be washing dishes in a restaurant it could be anything couldn't there but you could earn an extra five pounds don't spend it put it in an index fund I can imagine someone listening to this I mean for the record I agree with your advice I I I can imagine someone listening to this being like you guys you guys are privileged and Rich and like you don't realize that I've got a family to feed and like I'm already working two jobs just to pay my rent because rent's gone up because inflation and stuff how can you possibly tell me to I just need to earn more money because they're working so hard so hard because they're service in the debt that they're under generally speaking so again if we're into that scenario start earning more start paying those debts down particularly the high debts I mean they're crippling aren't they you know again if you're earning that thousand pound a year sorry a month for argument's sake it's an easy figure to use and 200 that is going on interest and payments and you're not getting anywhere well you're actually living on 800 pounds so get it get it paid down I know it's harsh yeah it is harsh but it's also quite simple as well isn't it so let's say Okay so let's say someone's listening to this they're like cool I'm earning a thousand pounds a month right now What would you recommend as like you're a pro like if you were in that position how would you go about earning an extra let's say 100 quid a month or an extra 500 a month well it's probably a bit different for me and it's different for everyone isn't it but I would use that scenario I just said if you'd like going to the pub work in the pub yeah if you like what whatever you like to do find some some requirement from it like I was flying model airplanes or fly model helicopters there was an element of of Desire that I could pass on that skill so that skill is worth something you know go online you know there's lots of things you can do online like copywriting for example or whatever happens to me in fact you don't even have to do it just ask hey I like to do it for you and send it on you know there are so many things that you can just learn that small amount extra and as long as you don't go and spend it or waste it nice okay so one big question that you get is how do I start investing to make money to get rich tomorrow what other kind of questions do you guys get but do you find yourself answering quite often um that's quite a hard one I'm looking at Curtis there for uh a thing I mean most things most of the things we get are quite positive and I think you're in a similar situation it's more of a I didn't realize that I'll ever go at that um I think the the thing that we get that we can't really get over is the time that yeah everyone who's young has got time to make money you know that I don't think people are aware of how much time they have but they've got to start you can't keep asking for advice and not taking action all right because where's it going to get you you can read a hundred books but if you don't take action what's the point in reading all those books no point you know so action is the thing isn't it you know the answer to most people's questions is take action do something have a go nice uh what's here uh what's your take on the whole stop buying lattes from Starbucks so that you can put your three pound fifty in an index fund debate well it's not it's not really that is it that's not really the thing you know the smashed avocado on toast it's not really the thing it's where you're gonna find that money from and obviously by saying don't buy the coffee don't buy the avocado it it that's all on the the saver mentality isn't it it's like to to save some of the money you earn well all those things bring enjoyment don't they I mean going out for a nice coffee taking the wife out or the girlfriend or whatever yeah they're all nice things so I'll go back to what I said before put some money on top of what you're earning and use that that's money you didn't have any money you earn on top of what you earn is free it's not free money but you can think of it's free money use that to invest rather than say I've got to physically give up my coffee but having said that do you need a Starbucks coffee on your way to work probably not you make an instant coffee pop it in a cup stick it in the car you'll enjoy it probably just as much you know I I buy a particular instant coffee I quite like and everyone has instant but I quite like that so I'll make a coffee when I go to work at the shop I'll make a coffee I'll take it with me I could stop I got a cost to drive through on the way to work well you know it might sound tight coming from me but that's four quid I don't need to spend that in a chance so if you stop for that you can have a pastry as well and you've seen what they charge for loads so you know you don't have to do these things and actually what are you giving up yeah you've still got your hot drink you enjoy yeah uh have you come across a book called a die with zero no but I'm guessing what it's about yeah so interesting book by Bill Bill Perkins basically about how people who are kind of aimed at I guess entrepreneurs uh and people who invest a lot into their careers where the mindset of make more money save more money continues Way Beyond it's actually useful and actually his his whole premise in the book is that provided you've given given what you want to your kids and given what you want to Charities you should aim to die with zero dollars in the bank account and a lot of people when they hit retirement age they find that a their health is already declined and so they should have spent more money when they were younger to do interesting things and B that the mindset of scrounging and saving pennies no longer like that that then holds them back and then and they end up dying with loads of money left in the bank account which is time which is money that they could have not worked for and therefore saved time assuming they didn't enjoy their jobs or it was a backpacking trip they could have taken in the 20s or 30s or whatever that thing might have been how do you how do you think about that balance well it's multifaceted that isn't it really because first of all you've got to say do you enjoy what you do now I enjoy what I do for a living the the YouTube side of things and social media with my son I I absolutely love um so first of all why would I stop doing that if that's something I really enjoy um so far this year we've been to Las Vegas um where we've come and met you today um I'm doing a bungee jump shortly because one of our guests gave us a bungee jump experience um I'm going to Dubai next month I'm doing a parachute jump over the Palm Island or that's the plan with ski in I don't know if I just mentioned yeah um I I love doing lots of experiences I would say if you're an entrepreneur or businessman the model I've always tried to do is to spend a little bit more each year try and improve your life and your experiences every year and what I believe is when you pass away the experiences and the fun you had are the things that you're left with so I've always done experiences always wanted to race cars I've done that the box is ticked you know all these different things are great experiences and you should experience them without doubt but dying with zero I don't like the idea of that I like the idea of generational wealth and I like the idea that my granddad said to my dad you're going to do better than me you know carry the family name forward and all the rest of it he said the same to me I've said the same to my son as well you know I think that generational thing is great and particularly when you come from humble beginnings if you can build your family wealth up that's got to be a good thing you know nice how do you think about like charity and like donating and that kind of I like to think that I give for the right reasons but I think we all give for the reasons that we can say we gave yeah um I think Ricky Gervais did a really good sketch on it in um what's it extras where he went past him oh I've only got only got a tenor I don't really want to give a dinner but oh that's a tenor right yeah and have the tenor you know and it was all for show wasn't it yeah and I think there's a lot of that going on um I give what I want to give and I'm happy to give what I give I don't probably give enough at the moment but probably will more so in the future okay if I see it being used well yeah as well you know that's quite important to me I mean our charity as a business is Kent our ambulance so we'll give to that um because I think that's a very good cause and maybe there's a bit of me that thinks um I need that one day so a bit of payback yeah I don't know yeah there's obviously all these things in there why do people give to cancer organizations might need what they develop you know it's it's a funny thing isn't it yeah yeah um a lot of entrepreneurs they sort of when you ask them especially I think above the age of like 30 they kind of wish they'd spent more time either on their health and or their relationships as they were as they were making it big as it were um do you have any of those regrets um the only regret I have is I wish I could have spent more time with my son he's given me the eye now I can't know where I'm going with that um and that's probably why now is such a good time yeah you know it's he's 24 where he's a man you know and we we get on well and we work hard to to achieve the goals we want to achieve um but it is a very hard balance very hard banners I mean the the thing he if you asked him the thing that I didn't spend enough time on was he was very good swimmer and I wouldn't have gone to enough swimming events to watch him my flip side of that was always that they wouldn't give you the time that his race was on and I wasn't interested in watching anyone else swim or getting hot in the environment of a swimming pool it's not just heart assuming it's horrible and it's so loud with everyone screaming their kids coming on and all the rest of it um so if they could have given me a time no I could have gone right I'll block that in I'll be there I'll be watching it cheering on saying well done at the end and all the rest of it um so that's a slight regret slight regret but realistically if you work hard you can gain the benefits along the way and if your life gets a bit better over a year then I think everyone enjoys that hmm nice do you think that um again so when I speak to a lot of entrepreneurs and you haven't alluded to this yet which is which is interesting but when I speak to a lot of entrepreneurs they talk about the importance of work-life balance um but they only talk about that once they're already millionaires to what extent like we talked about when you were younger and you know in your in your teens but to what extent do you think for let's say entrepreneurs like your son for example uh or someone like me and I'm 28 um or people in their 30s how much how important is this idea of work-life balance do you reckon um I think the honesty is as we alluded to earlier is the important part of that so as long as the your partner and I know you have a fairly new girlfriend um I think the honesty behind how much work you need to do and how much time that takes up that's important because at the end of the day yes it's a relationship but it's also a bit of a contract as well isn't it if she's expecting more from you then you're able to provide and vice versa then that's a problem that's where the problem is going to create so I think open and honest is is very important um we used to operate um the shops initially seven days a week you know that that's a lot of time when you're on very low staff and you're having to be there um so I I think work-life balance is very important but if you if you start off honestly and then every year it gets better then I don't think that's necessarily a problem um I'm probably going to shock you here with something as well hello um when my wife went into labor to have my son um I was out teaching someone to fly a Model helicopter time I said oh yeah I'll be there I'll be about 20 minutes half an hour so that was bad really because I should have been straight there um two days after he was born I was in America competing in the radio control Model helicopter competition which again would sound bad to the average person but that's the commitment I had to the Hobby and to the industry that I was in that I had to do that so yeah it doesn't sound right but that is how it is yeah and your wife was okay with this well to be fair she was probably happy I wasn't around for those two weeks anyway so nice um what's it like running a business with your son um it can't be quite argumentative um but ultimately fulfilling um we used to our podcast now is called strike it big it used to be called like father like son the reason we named it like forever Light sun was because we thought the arguments that we had and the disagreements we had and the differences between the old and the new that would make great viewing uh we ended up finding that the arguments we had weren't really the ones that we'd want to air anyway but they were probably irrelevant or when you look back on them a day later it's all like I didn't really matter whether that was orange or red you know it didn't matter but we had an argument about it um but ultimately working with your son is very rewarding and that would never have happened within the industry that I'm in because he has no interest in radio control models so um it was a case of we would never work together but now we do and that's good nice because because a lot of people would say oh you know whatever you do don't go into business with any family members yeah do you I guess you don't agree with that advice um not really no I you've got to be quite strong I think because it it could have fallen apart yeah but it didn't fall apart and it's like a relationship with a girlfriend stroke wife you know she's never happy so it's never like that great great great great great great it's a roller coaster yeah and there are ups and downs and as you as long as you know ultimately that we're we're we're both working for the business for the betterment of the business and when I suggest Summoners outright ludicrous or because you're thinking from the Stone Age dad you know it's it's meant with the right passion you know to get the business forward and you know a couple of days later Michael may say you know there is something in there and there's an app that does that now in a better way and we can work with this and oh yeah that works and then that's great another time maybe that was absolute awful suggestions but I'm okay with it as long as it's taken on board and it's like yeah we'll give it some thought nice and then that's good fantastic um but it is a roller coaster yeah what do you see as the Ender Game for you with the I guess the the content side of the business um that's hard to say really I mean the thing I get from it yeah equally as as I do from working with my son is the good comments back you know when you get comments back you've changed people's lives that's great when people walk up to you and I'm sure you've had this it's like you know I saw that video with you and talking about this Vandal talking about this idea or this side hustle and I've done it and I'm doing really well Berlin you know I I don't really want that to stop I'd like that to continue forever yeah because that's fantastic isn't it if you can bring everyone up rather than push everyone down you're going to feel better as a person aren't you and that's what I like you know all you know 99.9 of our comments are a positive of people that have done better through what they've done hadn't realized what they could do or what they were capable of I mean how many people don't realize what they're capable of most you know it's it's amazing nice so internet Fame has probably been a positive thing for you guys I think so yeah we were we were in a tube station last night and that was quite funny because we haven't I'll just recognize you know people chat sometimes they don't want to come up to you yeah you can hear what they're saying oh yeah that's the guy I learned such off of and you can hear them discussing it yeah and you can think that's fantastic not only has he learned it he's telling them that that's the guy and now they're learning it and that's superb yeah it's a really nice feeling to be able to pass on knowledge and experience my mentor um Dave this isn't the guy we spoke about earliest another guy he died about or 20 years ago now he passed on his knowledge for free absolutely for free didn't even know he was passing on the knowledge didn't know maybe he had an inkling I was absorbing it I don't know but that was for free that's why we do all our content for free one thing I'm curious about so I'm going to phrase this in a in a weird way but like from from what you've experienced and what you've seen what are the different levels of wealth by which I mean you know there's clearly a big difference between like 10K a month and like 50k a month in terms of what it affords your lifestyle but like 50 to 100 100 to 250 250 like uh what what are the levels with which you see or in in your in your friends like step changes and they'll this thing actually improves your life well I think it's widely accepted about 80k buys you just a bit most things you want and you can go wherever you want you can do pretty much whatever you want over a certain amount of time you can do all those things so if you want to go to Cuba for example you can fly economy to Cuba have a week in an okay hotel and all the rest of it so I I think the first key for most people is to get to that sort of level of wealth um beyond that it does several things it enables you to go in first class if you want to or premium even you know there's a plus to that and that you know it's diminishing returns but the comfort is so much better like for myself when I first traveled to China and I was doing my business there I was traveling economy now I would never go less than premium because I know that if I go a better service I can work that next day that I arrive well when I was traveling economy I couldn't do that you know I'm more like this and being a larger sort of chap it's very difficult so as you become better off it affords you just those better ways of doing things the better Hotel the better travel the you know some might say the better experiences you know really because you know rather than sitting on the beach watching that guy paraglide along behind the boat that's you mirror glider behind the boat obviously it is a diminishing return but you can also buy back a bit of your time as well and I think as you become wealthier that that's the thing that you're buying back you know because you get other people to do other jobs for you other things that you'd be tied up doing anything that takes your time away if you can buy that time back then that's a great thing isn't it and we're all on a limited time scale here all of us and it's too short you know we all think we're going to live to a hundred but the facts are we're not I don't know what the facts are it's probably 80 something is it something like that it's not a lot of life is it really and you've got a lot of things to fit in you know I had an accident not so long ago you may have seen the video um and that that's it wasn't a life threat anymore well it could have been life-threatening it was a punctured lung and a ribs gone on the back and all the rest of it it was pretty shocking um but as I laid there and I looked at my wife and my son I thought you know hopefully it's not the last time I see them but if it is they won't be able to write on their I wish he'd done more because he's had a pretty fulfilled life up to this stage and I think that's quite a nice way to be I mean I I also believe you know I don't like living every day like it's the last because otherwise you'd end up with no money doing all sorts of things you shouldn't be doing but I think you should live this life like it's your last life because it is you know so enjoy everything as you go we have one guy who works for me he said you should spend more money you should do more things you should do this you should do that and I said but I'm having a great time I'm 55 years old I can't remember a year I didn't enjoy so there's nothing wrong with that is there yeah I take enjoyment from all sorts of things so yeah it seems like it yeah um there's a bit of a debate well it's not much baby I'd love to hear your thoughts on these two two scenarios number one I don't like doing the laundry I don't like doing the cleaning of my house therefore I'm going to Outsource it because my time is worth 50 Quid an hour I can Outsource it for 20 quid an hour versus 100 agree with it versus it builds character and it's good for you to clean your own dishes and wash your own clothes stop being a toilet like do it yourself when you couldn't afford it you did it yourself yeah you understood what you needed to do and when that person for insurance so they can't come in you know how to do it it's all about understanding those those jobs once you can afford to buy your time back 100 that's what you should be doing I I think that yeah wholeheartedly but doing the jobs I think is quite important as well if you have the money as a Birthright and it's gifted to you and you never ever do any of those jobs and I think you've lost something there without a doubt and within my business um or businesses there's not one job I haven't done and also use my carpentry skills in there as well you know so everything yeah everything I can do I've done and then when I ask someone to do a job I'm not asking them to a job of from a position of I don't want to do that I hate that job you can do it I'm doing it saying well I have done it you know I've done my time it's now your time to go through that and that's how it is for someone who does your laundry or does your ironing that's another little side hustle isn't it you know it's something rather than sat there watching Emmerdale Farm or Coronation Street which if they enjoy it and they get enjoyment from nothing wrong with that but they could be stood in front of ironing board doing your iron in and earning 20 30 40 quid an hour and I can watch Coronation Street while doing that perfect scenario and then they can invest it in an index fund that's the one um we'll put next to Vanguard and stuff down below yeah um what what are some things where you found that spending more money has actually led to more fulfillment a lot of people say like business class is way better than economics if you can afford it it's totally worth it are there any other things where well first class I wouldn't say is necessarily better than um than premium to be perfectly honest so we flew um first class back from the states because virgin offered a a deal that we couldn't say no to you probably had similar deals um so we said yeah okay we'll do it um but the LifeLock beds for me being six foot four and a half six foot five it was no benefit because I was still cramped up but in a in a premium seat I can sleep no problem at all um so I wonder where we're going there so buying oh um what are what are some areas in which you found that spending more money has actually led to a better experience or more happiness so I think being able to going back to the airline thing is is being a do-up you know but you don't have to go the full hog you know I I spoke with graham Stefan recently who most of your viewers will recognize that name and he he is more frugal than I am he's ridiculously Frugal yeah yeah I'm always surprised yeah he said um because we said about um traveling first class and premium and this and the other and he said I always travel economy I said really you know you're worth 20 million dollars why would you travel that way he said well the only time I've traveled upper class is when it costs me less than 30 dollars an hour to track more to travel first classes and that's what I I value that first Class Act so that's the way he looks at things I think that's too far I think you know you can't get there is a diminishing return obviously we know that but if you arrive in Comfort that's got to be worthwhile and also I'm sure you've been in the Virgin Lounge at Heathrow what that you know that brings back the the Jet Set way of traveling you know you go into that Lounge you're fully relaxed you feel like you want to get on the flight you stay in the normal area you're fighting to get something to eat your drinks being knocked over by someone there's everyone's screaming all the noise so it does afford you certain benefits that's for sure so spending a bit of money is a good thing and rewarding yourself as well you know at the end of the day having a reward keeps you positive and focused on what you're doing you know so again talkative rewards my son bought um a Rolex because we got a million subscribers that was the target if we ever got to that he would buy that he did and he rewarded himself and I think if you're building rewards to your to your business then that's a good thing cool Final question um what was it like interviewing and meeting Andrew Tate amazing yeah yeah is um you know some people find this hard to believe but he was a perfect gentleman um he arrived early he gave willingly of his time as much time as we wanted we thought we were overrunning and we stopped because we'd filled a a card up on the camera and we said oh we filled again you know he's going to want to go and he said oh that's fine you know trying to get another coffee and uh if you want any more oh yeah so we went for another hour on top of what we thought he would allow us um some of his thoughts and ideas of course are not you know great with everyone I understand that some of them aren't great with me we did a reaction video to it and I would say 80 roughly is what we'd agree with 20 isn't um talking of hate comments because this brings some up that of course we had some from that um and people the the biggest comment we had is why are you talking to this guy and we get that quite often when we interview people you know from time to time you know this is not what we expect from you and the reply is always that we interview interest in people because they're interested not because we agree with them 100 percent and if we only interview people we agree with 100 guess what would have no guess you know you take what you can from an interview as a viewer learn what you can discard what you don't want you know throw it in the trash it doesn't matter but take what you can learn what you can and that's how you move on you can't be black or white don't be polarized I hate that guy so nothing he says is going to be of benefit to me or the opposite everything he says is Gospel it's it's what I believe a hundred whatever he says yeah you can't be like that and I think it's a shame when people are because then they don't have their own opinions yeah yeah I'm yeah I'm with you on this one I think I mean it's the people that you meet that form your opinion surely yeah you know that's that's what it's all about they're the only ones that can change the way you think the things you understand yeah we we we had a bit of a debate amongst our amongst our team about this sort of stuff like what sort of guests do we want to give a platform to and there was a lot of back and forth and I really appreciate everyone who kind of shared shared their opinion on this but my view was that if I could get an interview with Vladimir Putin I would be like hell yes I wouldn't be like oh this is the sort of person who's so evil that they cannot be spoken to yeah uh and if you can if I'd if you would interview someone extreme like that then you know basically reason to have a conversation with basically anyone yeah and figure out what you can learn from them because everyone everyone regardless of how we think of them has an interesting perspective to share I think so you know if JK Rowling wanted to be on the podcast of course we talk about her writing probably won't talk about her trans views but we talked about the writing it's like you can learn something from everyone regardless of what you think about the totality of their opinions but then some people would say that like well you're giving a platform to someone that is spreading their messages of hate even more how do you how do you feel about the whole platforming thing um or what b d platform and then giving like freedom of speech does not necessarily mean the right to a platform so by having a big platform and bringing on someone like an Andrew Tate or whoever evil person is currently evil and you know in the in the media then you're allowing their message to spread more than it would otherwise well what's your opinion on Andrew Tai as this is what this actually is referring to my opinion is broadly similar to yours I think 80 very reasonable uh 20 uh I disagree with significantly I think the the way in which he phrases a lot of things Robs a lot of people up the wrong way and he knows it does and that's kind of the whole model my first question to him was do you believe 100 in what you say and do or are you just poking the bear his answer was I'm poking the bear I'm getting a reaction so that was the first question we posed and he answered that honestly yeah um obviously he believes in some of the the the the women's stuff he believes in and that's what we kicked back on we pushed back on it on the actual interview and we pushed back on it even more on the you know the the follow-up video we did um so you know you're going to learn something from everyone I I I think it's wrong necessarily the Deep platform someone um and I don't are we giving him a platform I think we're giving people a chance to um listen to a good debate and a good conversation yeah yeah I'm I'm wearing control of the edit oh yeah exactly you know so although I'll be absolutely honest with you 10 minutes edited out of that one yeah about 10 minutes for flow so that was a pretty everything video nice in fact it's the least edited podcast I think we've probably ever done so that shows it was very genuine doesn't it yeah um yeah he will he's on run boy yeah all his fans will find him no problem at all so yeah um I think it showed um I think it showed pretty much the true side of him which I'm quite proud of to be honest and it was the last interview with Andrew Tate before he was uh arrested yeah and the charges keep changing don't they so it seems like you do one day if he's being pinned with something he hasn't done who knows I mean anyone who's had the background he's had probably has a skeleton in their closet probably so it's very difficult isn't it yeah very difficult yeah I think I'm with you on this one I think I can see why people would say don't give someone a platform but I think the net value to the world of exposing people to opinions that they don't like with appropriate degrees of preparation yeah and ultimately freedom in the Final Cut I think is always a reason to have a conversation I mean we obviously did Clash on the the woman side of things because I personally believe finding the right partner be it male female whoever you are that is one of the most important things in your life that will make you a stronger person not having multiple women all that does is spread your time out waste your time find the right person have a full loving relationship and that's what I've had and that's what I'll continue to have fantastic Mark I think that's a good place to end this thank you so much for taking the time where can people learn more about you and the work that you do uh they can come and see us on YouTube uh just type in Mark Tilbury I'll come up uh or watch the strike it big podcast where I think you'll be appearing very soon exactly I'm gonna do that if you know thank you so much have a great day welcome thank you very much pleased to meet you likewise all right so that's it for this week's episode of Deep dive thank you so much for watching or listening all the links and resources that we mentioned in the podcast are going to be linked down in the video description or in the show notes depending on where you're watching or listening to this if you're listening to this on a podcast platform then do please leave us a review on the iTunes Store it really helps other people discover the podcast or if you're watching this in full HD or 4k on YouTube then you can leave a comment down below and ask any questions or any insights or any thoughts about the episode that would be awesome and if you enjoyed this episode you might like to check out this episode here as well which links in with some of the stuff that we talked about in the episode so thanks for watching uh do hit the Subscribe button if you aren't already and I'll see you next time bye

Channel: Deep Dive with Ali Abdaal

Views: 310,831

Keywords: Ali Abdaal, Ali, Abdaal, Ali Abdal, Abdal, Deep Dive With Ali Abdaal, Deep Dive, Ali Abdaal Podcast, Deep Dive with Ali Abdaal Podcast

Id: 1xOsgcwRd9E

Length: 107min 59sec (6479 seconds)

Published: Thu Mar 23 2023