SERIOUS NATIONAL SECURITY THREAT WHILE WE LEARN MORE ABOUT DETAILS ABOUT WHAT IT IS, AS THE 11TH HOUR GETS UNDERWAY ON THIS THURSDAY NIGHT. ♪ ♪ ♪ >>> GREETINGS EVERYONE I AM SYMONE TO SANDERS A TOWNS, AND IN FOR STEPHANIE RUHLE. WE'RE NOW 264 DAYS AWAY FROM THE ELECTION AND IT HAS BEEN AN EVENTFUL DAY IN DONALD TRUMP'S COURT CASES. WE BEGIN IN GEORGIA WHERE D A FANI WILLIS TOOK THE STAND AND FIRED BACK AGAINST ALLEGATIONS OF MISCONDUCT IN THE ELECTION INTERFERENCE CASE. MY COLLEAGUE BLAINE ALEXANDER HAS MORE. >> REPORTER: LATE TODAY, FULTON COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY FANI WILLIS HERSELF TOOK THE WITNESS STAND. >> I'VE BEEN VERY ANXIOUS TO HAVE THIS CONVERSATION TODAY. I RAN TO THE COURTROOM. >> REPORTER: IN AN OFTEN CONTENTIOUS BACK AND FORTH -- >> IT IS A LIE. IT IS A LIE. >> REPORTER: WILLIS WAS PRESSED ABOUT DETAILS OF HER PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH NATHAN WADE, WHO SHE HIRED AS A SPECIAL PROSECUTOR ON THE TRUMP CASE. >> YOU AND MR. WADE MET IN OCTOBER 2019 AT A CONFERENCE? >> THAT IS CORRECT. -- WHICH I TRIED TO SLEEP WITH HIM AT THAT CONFERENCE, WHICH I FIND EXTREMELY OFFENSIVE. >> REPORTER: WELL IF HIS TESTIMONY WAS A SHOCKING TWIST IN A FIERY EVIDENTIARY HEARING THAT FOCUSED ON ALLEGATIONS THAT WILLIS FINANCIALLY BENEFITED FROM HER PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH WEIGHT IN THE FORM OF ROMANTIC GETAWAYS. ALLEGATIONS FIRST MADE BY TRUMP CODEFENDANT MICHAEL ROMAN AND HIS ATTORNEY, ASHLEY MERCHANT, IN AN EFFORT TO GET WILLIS REMOVED AS PROSECUTOR. A MOVE THAT WOULD THROW THE ENTIRE GEORGIA CASE AGAINST MR. TRUMP INTO QUESTION. >> YOU THINK I'M ON TRIAL, THESE PEOPLE ARE ON TRIAL FOR TRYING TO STEAL AN ELECTION IN 2020. I'M NOT ON FILE NO MATTER HOW HARD YOU TRY TO PUT ME ON TRIAL. >> REPORTER: AT ISSUE, WHO PAID FOR VACATIONS THE TWO TOOK TOGETHER. WAIT AND WILLIS BOTH TESTIFIED THEY SPLIT COSTS EVENLY, OR SHE REIMBURSED HIM. >> YOU NEVER WROTE HIM A CHECK? >> I DON'T HAVE CHECKS. >> REPORTER: WHEN PRESSED FOR EVIDENCE, WILLIS SAID SHE USED CASH. >> FOR MANY, MANY YEARS I HAVE KEPT MONEY IN MY HOUSE. I DON'T NEED ANYTHING FROM A MAN, A MAN IS NOT A PLAN, A MAN IS A COMPANION. SO THERE WAS TENSION ALWAYS IN OUR RELATIONSHIP, WHICH IS WHY I WOULD GIVE HIM HIS MONEY BACK. I DON'T NEED ANYBODY TO FOOT MY BILLS. >> REPORTER: BOTH WAIT AND WILLIS HAS ACKNOWLEDGED A PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP, THE QUESTION, WHEN IT BEGAN? BEFORE OR AFTER SHE HIRED HIM ON THE TRUMP CASE IN NOVEMBER OF 2021? TODAY A LONGTIME FRIEND OF WILLIS AND FORMER EMPLOYEE TESTIFIED THAT RELATIONSHIP STARTED WELL BEFORE THEN. >> YOU HAVE NO DOUBT THEIR ROMANTIC RELATIONSHIP WAS IN EFFECT FROM 2019 INTO THE LAST 20 SPOKE WITH OUR? >> NO DOUBT. >> REPORTER: LATER, WHEN PRESSED BY TRUMP ATTORNEY STEVE STAYED OUT -- >> DID YOU OBSERVE THEM DO THINGS THAT ARE COMMON AMONG PEOPLE HAVING ROMANTIC RELATIONSHIP? >> YES. >> SUCH AS? CAN YOU GIVE US AN EXAMPLE? >> HUGGING, KISSING. JUST AFFECTION. >> ALL BEFORE NOVEMBER 1ST OF 2021, CORRECT? >> YES. >> REPORTER: BUT WILLIS TOOK EXCEPTION. >> I CERTAINLY DO NOT CONSIDER HER A FRIEND NOW, I THINK THAT SHE IS SAYING NO GOOD DEED GOES UNPUNISHED AND SHE BETRAYED OUR FRIENDSHIP. >> REPORTER: WILLIS SAYS SHE AND WADE STARTED DATING IN EARLY 2022, AFTER SHE HIRED HIM. >> IN NEW YORK, A JUDGE ORDERED THAT TRUMP'S HUSH MONEY CASE WILL GO FORWARD ON MARCH 25TH. NOW THIS WILL BE THE FIRST CRIMINAL TRIAL INVOLVING A FORMER PRESIDENT. AND MORROW, IN NEW YORK, WE COULD GET THE VERDICT IN TRUMP'S 370 MILLION DOLLAR CIVIL FRAUD TRIAL. NOW, THE JUDGE HAS ALREADY FOUND THAT DONALD TRUMP ENGAGED IN FRAUD. THE VERDICT IS ABOUT THE PENALTIES. IN WASHINGTON, DON'T TRUMP'S TEAM HAS FILED HIS REPLIED JACK SMITH'S FILING TO THE SUPREME COURT ABOUT THE PRESIDENTIAL IMMUNITY ISSUE. THAT MEANS THE JUSTICES COULD NOW RULE AT ANYTIME. MEANWHILE, SPECIAL COUNSEL ROBERT HUR, HE IS EXPECTED TO TESTIFY BEFORE A REPUBLICAN-LED HOUSE PANEL NEXT MONTHS AND LIKELY ABOUT THE FINDINGS IN HIS CLASSIFIED DOCUMENTS PROBE, SPECIFICALLY HIS CHARACTERIZATION OF PRESIDENT BIDEN AS A, QUOTE, ELDERLY MAN WITH A POOR MEMORY. WITH THAT LET'S BRING IN OUR LEAD OFF PANEL, AUSTIN DISCUSS. ANY LEWINSKY, WHITE HOUSE REPORTER FOR THE WALL STREET JOURNAL. FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY JOYCE VANCE WHO SPENT 25 YEARS AT THE FEDERAL PROSECUTOR. AND -- A FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR AND DRUGGING WRITER FOR POLITICO MAGAZINE. POWERHOUSE PANEL, THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING HERE TONIGHT. JOYCE, I WANT TO START WITH YOU. TODAY THE A FANI WILLIS WENT TOE TO TOE WITH DEFENSE LAWYERS, WHAT DID YOU MAKE OF IT? >> SO, IT WAS A LOT OF SPECTACLE BUT NOT VERY MUCH SUBSTANCE BECAUSE THE BURDEN OF PROOF IS ON THE DEFENDANTS HERE. THE ONES WHO RAISED THE CONFLICT OF INTEREST TO ESTABLISH THAT IT EXISTS. AND, IF WE ARE GOING STRICTLY ON THE EVIDENCE WE HEARD TODAY, I DID NOT HEAR THEM MEET THAT BURDEN. IT WAS OBVIOUSLY A TOUGH DAY FOR FANI WILLIS AND PROSECUTORS ARE SUPPOSED TO HAVE THICK SKIN AND SHAKE THINGS LIKE THIS OF. SHE CAME IN A LITTLE BIT HOT AND EMOTIONAL, BUT THAT WAS UNDERSTANDABLE GIVEN THE SORT OF FULL-ON DISCOURSE THE JUDGE PERMITTED INTO HER PERSONAL LIFE, FORCING HER TO EXPLAIN THINGS LIKE HER DAD'S ATTITUDE ABOUT MONEY. I THINK THE JUDGE WILL LOOK AT THE EVIDENCE AND HE WILL MAKE THE HARD CALCULATION BASED ON WHETHER THE DEFENSE MET ITS BURDEN'S. UNLESS THEY HAVE GOT MORE EVIDENCE TOMORROW, THEY DIDN'T DO IT TODAY. >> ON CAUTIOUS WE HEARD A WITNESS APPEARED TO CONTRADICT THE TIMELINE OF WILLIS'S RELATIONSHIP WITH SPECIAL PROSECUTOR NATHAN WADE. SHE WAS THE ONLY ONE, TOMORROW WE HAVE MORE TESTIMONY COMING, SO I DON'T KNOW IF WE WILL HEAR OTHERS. HOW IMPORTANT IS THIS ONE WITNESS? AT THIS POINT IT IS HER WORD AGAINST FANI WILLIS IS AN EIGHT AND WADES? >> SHE IS CRITICAL FOR THE DEFENDANTS CASE BECAUSE SHE'S ONLY EVIDENCE THAT THEY HAVE. HOWEVER, I AGREE WITH JOYCE HERE. I THINK WE HAVE TO SEPARATE THE SPECTACLE, WHICH WAS RIVETING, LET'S BE HONEST, FROM THE SUBSTANCE. >> IT WAS LIKE A SOAP OPERA, IT WAS BETTER THAN REALITY TELEVISION. >> IT WAS UNLIKE ANYTHING I'VE EVER SEEN, I WATCHED EVERY MINUTE OF IT AND I WASN'T PLANNING TO. HER TESTIMONY WASN'T TERRIBLY HELPFUL, BECAUSE ONCE YOU START TO POKE AT IT SHE HAS MOTIVATION TO EMBELLISH A BIT BECAUSE SHE LEFT THE OFFICE UNDER POOR CIRCUMSTANCES, SHE APPARENTLY WAS SHOWN THE DOOR EFFECTIVELY. SHE WAS PRESSED ON ONE OF THESE CONVERSATIONS OCCUR? SHE COULDN'T REMEMBER. WHERE DO THEY OCCUR, WHICH WAS A VERY GOOD QUESTION BECAUSE PEOPLE MIGHT NOT REMEMBER WHEN THEY HEARD SOMETHING, BUT THEY CAN OFTEN REMEMBER THE SURROUNDINGS, AND SHE COULDN'T ANSWER THAT. AS A RESULT, IT DIDN'T COME OFF AS VERY FIRST WASTE OF. AGAINST THAT YOU HAVE MR. WEIGHT AND MISS WILLIS OFFERING WHAT WAS QUITE CREDIBLE TESTIMONY -- BASED ON OUR OWN EXPERIENCE, BUT I THOUGHT ON THE HOLE THEY WERE ON THE STAND FOR HOURS AND THEY WERE CONSISTENT AND THEY ARE MOSTLY CREDIBLE. >> LET'S REMIND EVERYONE WHAT FANI WILLIS HAD TO SAY WHEN THE INDICTMENT OF, NOT JUST DONALD TRUMP, BUT IT WAS A RICO CASE WHERE THERE'S LOTS OF OTHER INDIVIDUALS IN AUGUST. LET'S REMIND FOLKS, LET'S PLAY THIS. >> I MAKE DECISIONS IN THIS OFFICE BASED ON THE FACTS OF THE LAW. THE LAW IS COMPLETELY NONPARTISAN, THAT IS HOW DECISIONS ARE MADE IN EVERY CASE. TO DATE, THIS OFFICE HAS INDICTED, SINCE I'VE BEEN SITTING AS THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY, OVER 12,000 CASES. THIS IS THE 11TH R.I.C.O. INDICTMENT. WE FOLLOWED THE SAME PROCESS. WE LOOK AT THE FACTS, WE LOOK AT THE LAW, AND WE BRING CHARGES. >> JOYCE, LET'S GO BACK TODAY AND SEPARATE THE LEGAL ASPECT OF THIS FROM THE OPTICS. OUR COLLEAGUE CHARLES COLEMAN POINTED OUT THAT THERE ARE TWO WAYS FOR DISTRICT ATTORNEY QUALIFICATION IN GEORGIA. ONE FORENSIC MISCONDUCT, HE NOTES THAT THAT IS NOT ALLEGED HERE. AND TO, ACTUAL CONFLICT, WHICH HE SAYS HAS NOT BEEN ESTABLISHED. WHAT IS YOUR TAKE ON THIS, JOYCE? BECAUSE IF THAT IS THE STANDARD, YOU KNOW, I'M NOT A LEGAL PERSON, I'M JUST SOMEONE WHO TRANSLATED WHAT THE LAWYERS HAVE TO SAY BACK AND SAY, BUT THIS JUST SEEMED TO ADD UP. >> I THINK CHARLES IS DEAD ON THE MONEY HERE. UNDER GEORGIA LAW YOU HAVE TO HAVE AN ACTUAL CONFLICT OF INTEREST, A FINANCIAL INTEREST IN THE OUTCOME OF THE CASE. THE CLASSIC EXAMPLE IN GEORGIA WOULD BE IF YOU HAD A SPECIAL PROSECUTOR WHO WAS ONLY PAID IF THEY GOT A CONVICTION. THAT IS THE SORT OF THING THAT CREATES INCENTIVES THAT ARE CONTRARY TO JUSTICE. HERE YOU'VE GOT TWO LAWYERS ON THE SAME SIDE OF THE CASE AND THE BEST THE DEFENSE HAS TO OFFER IS THIS SORT OF CRAZY THEORY THAT SOMEHOW FANI WILLIS IS GETTING KICKBACKS FOR HIRING WEIGHED IN THE FORM OF EXPENSIVE VACATIONS. THERE IS SIMPLY NO EVIDENCE OF THAT AFTER TODAY, SHE TESTIFIES THAT SHE PAYS FOR ROUGHLY HALF. HER TESTIMONY WAS CREDIBLE, YOU KNOW? SHE DOESN'T SAY THAT THEY SPLIT EVERYTHING 50/50 DOWN THE MIDDLE, SHE JUST SAYS A MAN IS NOT A PLAN. I DON'T NEED A MAN TO PAY FOR ME, I PAY FOR MYSELF. AND THERE IS NOTHING THAT THE DEFENSE REALLY OFFERS TO REBUT HER TESTIMONY. >> ANKUSH, IT REALLY STRIKES ME THAT MAYBE IN THE LONG RUN THIS PARTICULAR LINE OF QUESTIONING AN INQUIRY THAT WE SAW TODAY, IT REALLY DOESN'T MATTER WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO THE FACTS OF THE R.I.C.O. CASE THAT D.A. FANI WILLIS HAS BROUGHT IN FULTON COUNTY. SHOULDN'T ILLEGAL TAKE PRECEDENCE HERE, AND NOT JUST THESE BAD OPTICS? HOW DID WE EVEN GET TO THE POINT WHERE THIS IS HAPPENING IN COURT? >> CERTAINLY'S LAWYERS WE WANT THE LAW AND LEGAL ISSUES TO BE TAKING PRECEDENCE. I'VE GOT, HERE I HAVE TO BE HONEST, I THINK THE D.A. MISHANDLED THIS, HER RESPONSE. SHE SHOULD'VE COME OUT MUCH MORE QUICKLY, MUCH MORE POINTEDLY, FRANKLY THE FACTS SHE DESCRIBED TODAY AT LENGTH COULD'VE BEEN A CONDENSED INTO A PAGE OR TWO, AN AFFIDAVIT, AND SUBMITTED TO THE COURT. IT WHAT SHOULD'VE HAPPENED, BUT IT DIDN'T, AND THAT'S WHERE WE ARE TODAY. IN TERMS OF THE LEGAL VERSUS THE OPTICS, THOUGH, THE NEAR TERM PROBLEM FOR HER IS A LEGAL PROBLEM AND I AGREE WITH THE VIEW THAT MOST OTHER PEOPLE ARTICULATE TODAY, WHICH IS THAT SHE PROBABLY WILL NOT BE DISQUALIFIED IF THE SHAPE OF THE EVIDENCE REMAINS AS IT WAS TODAY. HOWEVER, THE OPTICS ARE NOT ENTIRELY WITHIN HER CONTROL, RIGHT? WE CALL IT THE OPTICS, BUT WHO IS WATCHING? POTENTIAL JURORS ARE WATCHING, HER CONSTITUENTS ARE WATCHING, I HAVE BEEN STRUCK JUST WATCHING NON LAWYERS REACT TODAY BECAUSE IN MANY WAYS THAT HAS BEEN MORE INTERESTING TO ME TO SEE THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT IT AND HEARING THEIR REACTIONS BECAUSE THEY'RE
