A lesson on Octave Technique: Chopin VS Liszt

welcome to this video in this video I'm going to share with you a few tips about octave technique about my own approach to octave plane and we are going to analyze two quite contrasting famous octave spots from list Rhapsody number six and from a octave from an octave attitude by Frederick Chopin in B minor so what is important when we play octaves let's start from some general General tips recently I have watched a video uh from uh tone base I think by a Pianist who was promoting an approach to play octaves mainly from the wrist and the exercise to master this method was to lift your hand with a stable stable forearm and drop it like that on the keyboard uh this method might work for some people and I believe that some players might develop a fantastic technique using it but uh such methods in my opinion should come with a huge warning warning sign because uh although they might be very useful for some people with stronger hands especially for people who are professionally trained anyway from uh from an early childhood but for people with weaker hands and with uh for adult beginners especially these um strength oriented learning methods might be actually quite dangerous that's why I just be careful with them don't overdo them and just stop practicing like that if you feel any kind of um sore hands or fatigue or pains my personal approach to octaves is a bit more ergonomic in my opinion and I mostly use gravity and motion coordination in order to handle octave passages so what happens when we play an octave let's have a closer look so in my Approach I mostly use gravity basically just falling down on the keyboard so we erase the forearm and then we allow that let's make that as a first exercise the first step of mastering this technique we raise the forearm and then we drop it like that not focusing the fingers just feel the weight of your hand feel how powerful it is actually if you just allow your hands to drop on the keyboard freely step number two would be of course focusing fingers focusing fingers one and five but we focus them only at the very last moment so we raise the forearm fingers are absolutely relaxed and then we fall down focusing fingers only at the very last moment [Music] this is very similar to a weapon motion the Rope is relaxed but at the very end of the motion it bites pish like that so this is basically how you could play octaves focusing fingers only at the very end of the motion and releasing them immediately after the hit so you reach the bottom and you release the fingers you don't pull them up so this is run but you just shut off the electricity in your fingers and you let them leave you let them stay on the keyboard like that boom like that if you would like to keep working on optimization of your technical skills you might check out my courses dedicated to technical aspects uh and musical but primarily technical aspects of piano playing dedicated to a 51 exercise of Brahms or to hang on exercises where I explain a lot of useful Concepts and tricks about piano playing in our first example today in uh the famous Elite Rap City foreign as a first stage I would suggest you to master one octave at a time making sure that you use gravity focusing fingers only at the very last moment and releasing them after each hit so we start from a comfortable Tempo release and while you release your fingers you erase your forearm and move your hand towards the next position [Music] and you see your hands your fingers they stay really close to the Keys you just move your forearm [Music] like that and let's have a look what actually happens when we hit an octave the question is where we have uh stability how we distribute stability in our hand because when we have a comfortable position like let's say a chord like C major chord and it's a root version here we have most of the stability in the knuckles and the thumb is supported in the first join that connects the thumb to the forearm so basically in the wrist here wrist for the thumb and Knuckles for the rest of the fingers the rest of the thumb is only partially tense so we have not so much tension not so much stability in the wrist most of the stability goes toward the knuckles and a little bit towards toward the wrist where we use the thumb and that allows us a great flexibility and cushioning with the wrist so we can release the hand we can um foreign we can rotate with the hand for different uh groups and stuff but when we play octave or some white chords we have to raise our wrists we have to transfer the a part of that stability from Knuckles to the wrist so we distribute it rather like 50 50. so here it's like 70 30 Maybe so we have a huge room for cashing in the wrist here we have like 50 50 maybe or maybe like 55 45 or something like that but what is not good if your uh Knuckles are Fallen completely like this is quite common for octave plane and that's a very limiting habit unfortunately there is not much we can do if you play like that that's why if you play like that I would suggest you to activate to learn how to activate uh Knuckles Bridge nevertheless in the octaves like that and these fingers they are more or less relaxed they are not crouched they are not lifted up I would not I would not hold any static tension in them I would rather hold them close to the Keys and not really tense of course avoiding some accidental some accidental press notes but there was a less not really making them tense but activating Knuckles instead so that form that shape is nevertheless quite important for octave plane of course for people with smaller hands that barely reach octaves it's difficult yeah for example if I would play 10th I can't really hold stability in the in the knuckles anymore because it's just extremely wide for me that's why uh there is not much uh what we can do that's just a limiting uh Factor but nevertheless there are some tips about relaxation about groupings and stuff and stuff and I have a special video with some tips for people with smaller hands uh uh however for everyone who has let's say standard size of the hand make sure that you work on the stability on the stability of the knuckle Bridge That's essential and a returning to our uh list Rhapsody at first what we have to do here is to work on each particular octave and acquire that habit of dropping your hand focusing fingers at the very last moment then releasing them and raising the forearm just a tiny bit to remove your hand to the next position then as soon as we feel comfortable with that in a comfortable tamper and comfortable Dynamics like much of water and let's say undone [Music] so at as soon as this feels comfortable you start grouping them in larger groups in groups of four nodes but always separating the first note so you play the first octave and you separate it and you release the head and then you group them from the second 16 note leading to the next strong beat so one two three four one two three four one two three four one and at this point we combine those uh acquired motions with relaxation between octaves and one larger motion of the arm so now we use the whole arm we also use the upper arm in order to play those groups in a flow so four nodes in a flow [Music] like that then we erase tempo [Music] foreign for this piece but making gaps between groups and then you make groups of eighth notes following the same principle and so on for repeated notes in order to play repeated notes more or less efficiently we have to at first Master uh something that I call Ricochet technique uh Ricochet as a reflection yeah so the first octave we play on a certain impulse and the second one comes as a reflection of the first one like that so you see that there is a one motion of the arm one impulse of the arm but two jumpy motions of the wrist for that we of course have to release fingers between hits and you play them kind of on different Motions like down forward like let's see so the Motions of the head are different you can also practice like out of the keyboard in the keyboard out in like counter emotions and then just down forward down forward until you can until you get them kind of Blended like that until you can play them on one motion then groups of three notes same principle the first one is your impulse and notes two and three are reflections like that so this is very similar uh sensation sensation is very similar as if you would have a flat stone and you would throw it horizontally towards the surface of the water and the stone starts jumping on the water yeah that's why I call it a Ricochet and then larger groups like groups of five notes and then even larger groups but when you play more than let's say eight notes you start bouncing with the wrist in the process so a bit lower higher lower higher [Music] and then gradually you will develop an ability to play many octaves in a row using this technique but of course it would take a few days you have to practice a few days like that and for leaps like there are a few leaps when we have such leaps we at first also break them into Pairs and work on each pair separately at first breaking that after the first note Bomb release following ricocha and releasing the hand between groups release release like that then oppositive [Music] this method is great because if you have a uh some some especially tricky leap like this one you can Loop it and work on it a few times in a row until you feel comfortable and then groups of four notes but again stop after the first one and play four four notes in a row and also one momentum so two first octaves go a bit lower and to other octaves go a bit higher with the wrist kind of you have half a half circle here [Music] like that until you can play that through so this is a great way of learning octaves that I really do recommend to you and now let's have a look at the contrasting um contrasting example from Chopin Etude in B minor in this piece we have quite a different Aesthetics so Aesthetics of Chopin was quite different to lists one list has Preferred some bravura style virtuoso elements Chopin would rather choose Legato singing and very gentle very delicate approach and this attitude promotes exactly these qualities and for that we have to keep in mind a few things so let's have a look at this study at first of course making sure that our thumbs are quite loose so we don't think much about physical Legato in the thumbs voice but rather about sensation of looseness in these parts of the hands so I would suggest you at first practice [Music] like that without a physical Legato just staying close to the Keys and avoiding accents just making them you can make some waves of Crescendo when you go upwards some small waves of Christianity but nevertheless loose hands no Legato and then we add upper voices and when we play octaves at first I would suggest you to coordinate motions in the following way so when you when you have black keys you play these octaves in the keyboard like that boom and when you play when you have white keys you go out right like that [Music] here we have two octaves out and then in so when we have white keys this is kind of one motion and then in that's a very helpful trick and it's very similar to playing just normal chromatic scales out in out in out out in out in out in out out in so this is how we can play uh chromatic scales in order to reach a quite a lot of strength without any effort same thing for octaves so at first organizing them like that when you have accents like these ones you have just to uh move these Keys faster in order to produce an accented sound and for that we might raise the forearms releasing the fingers here so free up the fingers raise the forearms and just drop your hands on the accented note drop race drop so we're just using gravity and experimenting with how little physical effort you have to use here [Music] basically not much and when we get to the spot in bar 5 when we have to hold these nodes it's also important to notice that first of all these accents they relate in my opinion they relate to those middle notes [Music] and octaves continue playing in a float [Music] so I would not accent octaves but I would accent solely those middle notes [Music] that would provide us with some polyphony and would not sound too bombastic and also at first separating the first note and making sure that you can free up your hands while holding that chord so focus and release immediately and free up move around a bit make sure that you are free here and then you start phrasing them from the second eighth note release use gravity in order to hit the next chord free up release gravity and free up you see so we free up twice before the court before the marked chord and after it release release [Music] so this is basically what happens here and then we smooth and all that yes and so on so it's always the same principle and then we improve Legato as soon as we have our as soon as we have coordinated motions we improve the gather for that we uh work with pedaling and phrasing and we always think in groups of six notes starting from the second triplet note so we play the first note without an accent gently and we start from the second eighth note and we create Crescendo but smoothing in the third beat so we avoid accents on the strong beats unless composer wants us to yeah so in the beginning creating a wave [Music] and smoothen in the strong beat always like that and then and here already we have accents on strong beats so you always think from the second eighth note and phrase it accordingly same principle applies to the middle section of this piece when I have those beautiful octaves I find this middle section actually much more difficult than faster sections because uh it's very easy to make unnecessary accents that would kill your um Legato or it's very easy to mess up with pedal because pedal here must be really masterful in order to provide that ultimate sensation of Legato and smoothness in both voices in this octaves that's why I would suggest you to actually start with the thumb you play the thumb without thinking much about physical Legato but you think about phrasing you think about a sensation of looseness in this part of the arm and you train your pedaling in order to foreign [Music] practicing with the thumb first and then adding the fifth finger but always thinking about motifs that start from the second eighth note [Applause] released [Music] foreign [Music] so at first I would suggest you to practice like that always gently smoothening strong beads so you create a wave [Music] but you smoothen the strong beat that would allow you to avoid accents on strong beats and improve phrase and this uh rounded sinking sensation of these phrases so I hope these tips were helpful please don't forget to like this video subscribe to my channel leave a comment all that helps me tremendously see you next time and have fun playing piano

Channel: Denis Zhdanov

Views: 6,977

Keywords: piano octaves, piano octaves technique, piano technique tutorial, octaves piano, liszt rhapsody 6 tutorial, chopin etude 22, chopin etude op 25 no 10 tutorial, chopin 25 10, chopin etude octave, chopin etude tutorial, how to play octaves on piano, taubman piano technique, taubman technique, tonebase piano, denis zhdanov piano

Id: LUdPQF2_ue4

Length: 21min 2sec (1262 seconds)

Published: Sat Nov 05 2022