A Conversation with Jamie Dimon

welcome everybody I'm Dan Porterfield the president and CEO of the Aspen Institute and it's my pleasure to welcome you all here for our 25th summer celebration it's great to look out in the audience and see so many friends and supporters of the Aspen Institute including our board chair Jim crown his wife Paula many other trustees and members of our Society of fellows members of the Aspen Strategy Group members of the Aspen community former Aspen's to present president CEO legendary Walter Isaacson is here tonight Thank You Walter for being here we are delighted this evening to celebrate and hear from this year's recipient of the Aspen Institute's corporate Leadership Award Jamie diamond chairman and CEO of JPMorgan Chase & Company congratulations Jamie Jamie and JPMorgan are known across the globe as leaders in the financial world for the depth of their social impact in the seriousness with which they commit to corporate engagement corporate social responsibility we're so pleased to recognize his lifetime of work supporting fair economic practices progressive future-oriented thinking investment in people and communities and all around improving the human condition Jamie will be in conversation this evening with a great journalist Gillian Tett u.s. managing editor for the Financial Times real news I love when they clap for the interviewer as well as the interviewee and this one of course is is the author of three books the silo effect saving the Sun and her serious coverage of the 2008 financial crisis fool's gold Gillian thank you for being here thank you very much indeed for that very kind introduction and I should say that you are in for a treet night I've been looking forward to this for several weeks because not only are we sitting here with a very well informed highly engaged audience but we have a chance to put under the spotlight somebody who is truly a luminary of the modern financial system and deRossett the American political economy because Jamie Dimon you've now been in the spotlight for two decades more than that actually under your leadership the share price of JPMorgan has tripled since the crisis doubled since you started but what's particularly striking is that as of this October when Lloyd Blankfein your friend and rival retires you will be the only person on the sell side from the financial crisis era who is still in place so cooking we can so we can congratulate you or commiserate you and if the recent announcement from JPMorgan is correct I think you're going to be there for another five years is that correct okay if you're not tempted by public service or going off to be president or anything like that beforehand okay this is officially one of the few times when Jamie Dimon does not have a quick comment back I love my job and I intend to stay there well you've had a stellar run quite stellar run and aside from the remarkable time at JPMorgan you just had your record second quarter earnings you've also been an outspoken force in the business community chairing the Business Roundtable and one of the few CEOs has spoken out quite forcefully on issues like immigration income inequality and the state of the American political economy today so we have a lot to talk about to do with to do with corporate leadership which is what you're getting your award for tonight we have a lot to talk about in terms of where America is where the American economy is where the risks to the financial system are today what lessons we can learn from the financial crisis but I'd like to start by asking you about something else which is a bus tour because Jamie Dimon has just been on a bus tour yes an actual bus tour not an aeroplane tour dressed up as a bus an actual bus tour across the west of America tell us a bit about it and what you've done and tell us whether this is your version of Mark Zuckerberg listening tour yeah so welcome thrilled to be here folks thank you for having me here and so every weave is our tenth bus tour and we started you know you always get out on the road you can fly around you go to major cities but every boat wama which is literally ten years ago we decided go a little off the beaten path and take a bus and we wear jeans and polo shirt no matter what we do we see CEOs and we se see some of the management team and we swapped they're in the way and and we do big client events like literally dinners for hundreds of people for CEOs and I went to Palm Beach I told them it was for jeans and stuff like that I was the only one wearing jeans and anyway we go to call centers ops centers we've got barbecues appreciation events coun halls we need a lot of give-and-take but part of the point is also in between the bus ride you know on the bus ride we also have tellers loan officers branch managers private client advisors exceda we give them beer and immunity when they get on the bus and we say just lay it on us and just tell us we could do better we do wrong I also get to see my own management like how they react to this stupid stuff all these companies do you know how we fix it we literally get on the phone and fix them on the spot other things take a little bit of stuff we were poor back to everybody what we fix what we know we learn stuff like that we have a lot of fun we leave a little time to do hiking I was on Aspen one of them by the way and then Vail one of them Jackson or one of them and and we could you know this time we actually flew to Las Vegas flew to San Diego and one only up the coast senator Barbara then we flew to Seattle right so we went back to the tenth anniversary or one right so we are officially part of the bus tour we're all part of Jaime Diamonds bus tour right now but the point of doing this it's really to go out and really listen to the soul of America and listen to us all your company and since we have many people in the room who have previously run companies it's an idea which probably resonates with many people here but I'm curious so you've done this bus tour what do you think the current state of America is so anyone who runs a company if you don't go see your call centers your op centers your plans stuff like that you can't possibly know what's going on you can't run a company like from the corporate errors you know like somehow you're just dictating down below so you have to do something like that's part of what you do to run a company okay so America let me get me the big picture the long-term picture and then the more short one the big one this nation is an extraordinary good shape we have all the food warner an energy we need to atlantic in the pacific wonderful neighbors in Canada Mexico and these things were given us by God then we have the things we're given to us by the Enlightenment and our founding fathers you know which is the free enterprise from a religion freedom of speech if you're democrat repeat freedom of enterprise surprise but those things led to the most dynamic and prosperous economy the world's ever seen the wizened deepest most transparent financial markets universities schools unbelievable innovation and if you made a very low corruption a very strong rule of law though that's getting weaker these days too if you made that list and go around the world Turkey Brazil China Russia India they don't have that they sure they would break they would give an arm and a leg to other kind of stuff so in an old now in the shorter run the economy's booming I mean it is absolutely booming and you see it almost everywhere and there's no major potholes out there I mean you can talk about geopolitics and we'll talk later there to rest which we'll talk about later I know they're on your list but you know wages of people coming back to workforce houses in short supply which is a plus for the economy credit that's on the balance sheet of financial azusa's pristine companies have plenty of money you got tax reform it's gonna help the the retention and reinvestment of capital the United States of America you have all these wonderful things happens if we can't believe it it's been nine years of ten years but to put it in context is 20 percent growth in a nine year period it should have been 40 percent it should have been 40 percent the average going for seven or eight in seven eight years so we have this long list of problems which we're gonna I mentioned real quick uncompetitive taxes business which has been fixed infrastructure we put a man in the moon in eight years we can't fix a bridge in 12 years now okay inner-city schools simply don't work we're relegating generations of minorities and poor kids to poverty the litigation system is becoming increasingly capricious and regulation I'm not gonna regulate them companies say regulation always think we're trying to go through bureaucracy but this listening tour you should go with me and listen to small business middle market large corporation about paperwork bureaucracy and it's secure it's a form of corruption that seeped into the American system to keep jobs out there and you see it all over the place and small business formation because of that and I'm not sure this one I can't cut quite prove it is less than it's ever been in a major American recovery okay and that's a lot of jobs and so they're all these problems we have they're by almost all self-inflicted I mean I just mention a whole bunch all self-inflicted and an immigrant raishin if we had property immigration reform it would help us to grow 0.2 percent a year we sent three hundred thousand kids here get it get degrees here back home and then our American universities brag about it like what a good job they're doing exporting you know they brag as to 50 50 billion dollars exports American your versus just foreign nationals paid the full boat so basically we're exporting brains right i mean how dumb can you possibly be and we saw one after another we've we've really dumbed down policy in this country but it's nasty and those things have led to a lot of the populism that you're gonna refer to later i am gonna talk about pop live in a minute but before we do let's come back and talk about the economy because yes the economy is booming yes we've had a remarkable nine-year run but and yes you keep saying that there aren't big potholes out there and yet what keeps you awake at night what are the risks you see that could actually derail them well I'm not going to about geopolitics because indeed well I mean I'm gonna skip it for say because in reality and we've one of our comes to the great thing they took all the geopolitical problem since World War two she had Vietnam Korea multiple Wars Afghanistan Iran Iraq six or seven crises in the Middle East Afghanistan and I mean Pakistan India had a war China and Vietnam had a war China Russia had border skirmishes you go all around the world only one effective global economy the short-run the other ones had huge effect like Vietnam which was still is still affecting us but it's a what effect the economy wants you want to your period and the only ones that send me three Millis so anytime you open the paper ill scared the hell out here okay and you could take any week of any month of any year and so I want to put that aside trade so right now all it's happening trade is is that that's myth number one is it's number one we put tariffs in a 50 billion the immediate economic effect that is nil doesn't really mean much but but it starts to affect confidence a little bit investment all but you've seen confidence come down your business confident consumers comes with the all-time highs after Trump was elected but if the next round would be far more severe and there will be tit-for-tat we've told the president be tit for tat we have told them that you that while you've pointed out very legitimate concerns about China and they are legit about state-owned enterprise I piece dealing in we don't have a reciprocal investment arrangements etc the way to fix it was they get Canada Mexico Japan and Europe allies have a common front and tell the Chinese this is the way we want to do trade set up rules and guile and stuff like that instead we're having a war with China Mexico I mean with with Mexico India Mexico Canada Japan Europe and China and China will do tit for tat we told them that so you know a lot of people said it won't happen when they've already been wrong we've already said that the president advisors have already given a very bad advice so if if it gets much worse that is one of the situations which can start to how much worse about to get because we've already seen just in the last 24 hours you know an escalation from China side I mean are we on the edge now we all know that they will be measured tit for tat that's what they're gonna do so will Europe so will Japan that is completely predictable of course that's already kind of in the market it's the execution would actually execute barriers yeah I did you have people saying they didn't expect that that they would somebody worked and if they say they're very close to Mexico and I mean getting a deal in Mexico and what we're fighting for in Mexico is absurd okay I personally think that we've asked Mexico and Canada a bunch of stuff to do which is no one wants not cutting that not Canadians not Mexicans I won't bore you with the details about these sunset provisions arbitration clauses but they're fine and we're and for some reason our guys want to make the Morison China's the big enchilada China is a real issue and the business community the BRT me all of us went to see the president and Obama used to say the business community you don't support me when I talk about China you support me privately but not publicly because most CEOs and I spoke myself to Wang XI Shan and Minister Liu that don't believe it when a CEO walks in and says it's great you're wonderful we love doing busier thank you very much because we we want to be there but then we all go back and tell the American presence that is grossly unfair and that they need to react to and I think they will eventually by the way but you know they're right now there's I don't who's negotiating it well you think what you think the white but you think they will listen to you they've not listened to you yet they banjo up a little bit want to get NAFTA done they did a little bit of Europe and you see the rumors that minuchin started to talk to China again so maybe they're saying no man let's go back to the tried and true and but his advisers are quite serious about you know hey they've walked into the Oval Office and the president say hey it comes to global elite and they're quite serious that you know you we've tried for 15 years and nothing worked I'm gonna get tough so I think there's a rather good chance that they put in that two and a billion and then the Chinese will do their fifty and then you'll start to see market reaction as comps come down growth slowdown and then if you're in business that will confuse all your supply chains you can't possibly understand the depth of it when they start putting tariffs on five thousand products exactly how but it'll start wearing his ugly head and you see it a little bit today well we had a calculation on the FT where we worked out that just in the steel sector alone there's already been sixteen thousand applications for exemptions by American companies and if you stop for a moment and think about the bureaucracy that entails and what that means the supply chains it's absolutely my blogging just in the last few weeks sixteen thousand quite you know astonishing but so that's so that's risk number one that's only risk number one what about risk number two tell us about the second issue which can lead to more but does okay the second one is reversing QE let me just give you some big numbers okay QE it was twelve trillion dollars by the all the major central banks four trillion United States so this is they go and they bite basically Treasurer easing and in Europe they're buying literally twenty thirty percent of corporate bond issues so this is a huge liquidity into the system that's the press rates and maybe it helped the economy recovery and I think QE one did in QE to my guess is QE 3 was more like pushing on a string and they're reversing it now as long as the reverse and for good reason so people say rates are going up always itself why the why is often more important than what if rates are going up and we have a strong economy we're fine there are a lot of examples of rates are going up even mortgage rates going up how is he strong people going back to the work force because the strong economy dwarfs I say Trump's this drawing money drawers filled warrant dwarfs the other effects but but if you're sitting here a year from now and I'm gonna list a bunch of stuff that could work against us and inflation has reared its ugly head and I actually think the chairs that are higher than most other people okay and your weight we're gonna have unemployment at the lowest it's ever been this year global the United States may very well hit a post-war global low sometime this year the commodity cycles changed wages are going up minimum wages are going up we're at this trip everyone's complaining I can't find workers is too expensive I say that's what you all wanted that's what we wanted people back to work now we have to compete for people and so share some of the wealth with the you know with the people now and so but put that in the midst that we don't know exactly QE did therefore you can't possibly know what the reversal cue is gonna do and you don't know right now we've been telling you the Federal Reserve didn't tell you kind of don't worry it'll be very gentle this won't hurt at all you won't even feel it the Federal Reserve doesn't control everything and so you know great if inflation is going up and gotta move quicker and then they're doing it with a whole other change of monetary rules so think of the rules that Bank live under market making rules highly leveraged governs not companies governments and and you I don't want to boy wanna Terry policy but in the old days you say you have an excess reserve there's a deposit bein you can lend it out now there's almost three trillion of excess reserves it can't be lent out because of new regulatory requirements so P always I'm worryin letting out yeah it says we have 500 billion said of the Fed I can't lend out under any circumstances and they'll sit there forever and throughout their lives and so and honestly we should have a quit ever saying that we don't really know what that does so the the bet the bad case and I'm not say there's a high probability but I wouldn't if you're planning there's a case that rates are not 4% I think they should be 4% today but the day are at five four five and a half the Shorin goes to four and so if I were you I planned you know you better be prepared to deal with that stuff with higher inflation and obviously the worst in his taxation but if the monetary stuff cause any panic like we had no nine where every one of you because I'm everyone in this thing all panicked all got scared every investment committee you sold your credit you sold this get out there's the depression that is what causes the problem and so if this time elicit a reaction the market that's the bad outcome so what you're basically saying is that JP Morgan be fine by the way come back and let you say your piece on JP Morgan in a minute but before we do for the crowd here who want to know what they can do with their investments okay so you think that interest rates could go easily way above four percent five six seven percent you think that inflation is a much higher risk I must say it's going to it could I think probably most people think that's what I'm saying right okay you're going to get their attention at that point do you think that the financial system is robust enough today to cope with a sudden interest rate shock or a panic because you know there have been some big changes post 2008 in terms of the trading environment and we don't want to get too technical for this crowd but you know if things have changed in terms of how assets are actually traded aren't they the potential for so-called narrow exits has written a lot and ETF so those other things might have a play in that yeah so the system has literally two and a half times capital - and if times of course it's not it won't be a banking issue okay that and and for a lot of banks it wasn't issue last time either but but there can either be a market issue and banks will not build intermediated like they did and of course the federal if they were to end they say well that happens will change these rules and requirements I think most banks gonna tell me yeah well not not anymore because last night happened they were we were very badly treated by all these folks and so yes and I think I want to give a beat Lehman Redux take Lehman okay when Lehman went bankrupt and you could argue whether it shouldn't allow it to or not they had 20 I think these numbers are roughly I could 20 billion of equity they had a 20 billion dollar mark to mark loss and their some of their mostly commercial real estate and mortgage related type stuff they had eighty billion dollars of debt and they were not very liquid the new rules they would had 50 or 60 bit of equity they'd have a hundred twenty billion dollars of debt Baylin a bull debt and they've had two times the liquidity they would not have failed on the new regime so I think the regulars take a little bit of a victory lap and say and and buy they could take it over legally which they couldn't do in the crisis and they have the wherewithal the transparency to have orderly unwind what happen with Lehman it was it was uh naughtily so why mourn Bear Stearns were orderly because we did it they would have been disorderly if we didn't do it but Lima is destroy the money got caught up all over the world people were suing each other people to know whether whether collateral was they couldn't sell their securities that you know and the government started to fight with each other about trying to lock up funds in their own countries and it would be orderly this time so that is a great things the finish is a far sounder there are a lot of things that they did they were uncoordinated and wrong and may cause these other problems but yeah the system is much Sanders the problem but someone will get hurt and if the market if you will walk in when you oh how many of you have served in like investment committees when you serve an investment kid any and the market goes down your walk and say what is countrywide repo again why do we have Lehman commercial paper what is this thing out there you sell it and and who is going to step in and fundamentally the people's deputy he's definitely people was definitely last time with the big banks who were still strong not all of them they were not all strong and the government the Federal Reserve and and some argue you know I know you had Paulson and Geithner here recently that the Federal Reserve actually had their some of their authorities constrained by dodd-frank and I think that is a little bit true so the issue basically is if we do have a jump up in interest rates if we have a surgeon inflation and it's if investors panic and try and sell in the hurry there will be no but one there to buy which is a pretty you know nerve wracking thought so here's like some stupid rules okay so so in the last crisis JPMorgan rolled over to include alot you'll be rolled over all your loans every year chilly and a half dollars of loans both credit card home equity more corporate at the same rate now the market was charging four times that okay in this crisis because these new rules we will have to actually reduce some of that in the crisis and that's the problem that's not that's not the way you should accept the system get my dis or since we are we are now ten years after the financial crisis do you regret having bought Bear yes I mean you know beer look I hate saying it cuz we got some wonderful people and we got a prime brokerage business we didn't and so I don't I hate to say it that way but no we and we paid a little over a billion dollars we're coming to had a market cap of 20 and book equity of 12 but and we wrote it off almost all that in what they call purchase accounting for litigation for closed down for stock lawsuits for deep risky in the balance sheet we had a basically D risk for hedge 200 billion dollars of assets and so and it was a huge amount of work our people worked around the clock to consolidate if you've been an investment Bain and trading it to consolidate systems you know liquidate stuff and then the government comes around couple years later and they decide to punish us over so I do you think that was unfair I know it was unfair and I don't trust I will not trust I'm not gonna trust any government ever completely again okay government can do whatever they want the Constitution doesn't Manning matters when people get mad you know these governments will just pretty much do what they want and do you think it was a mistake to let Lehman Brothers collapse my view is there is a law okay and I and they the law is that the Federal Reserve can lend money to a solvent company okay and against assets to a solvent company and that is the law and Lehman was unsought insolvent like their assets were not equal to their liabilities at that point I was are best guess at the time and of course the government did a lot of things weren't quite legal back then so they probably could have stepped in anyway and come up with another law or something like that but I might be you is whether they did or didn't that the crisis would have folded anyway you just have taken a different slightly different path there what happened Lehman as we were telling the world that there was a trillion dollars of bad assets in the financial system that was everywhere it was all mortgages by the way it was everywhere and derivatives were a teeny part of it but drug has helped pass it on to other players and things like that so like I thought when Lehman would even collapse you know when men went down that weekend and stuff like that or even bear you know immediate there was immediate where the markets got the top kind of happy for a moment and then they realized what it meant and then you started having a collapse which is what we knew is gonna happen is that you're telling the world what in God's name is going on here and it was pretty bad so how did JPMorgan survive better than others well we going to you know you can go it's a pity you can't have a I I always I've always looked at and anything we do is what's the worst case I'm not saying they're gonna happen like we do a a China worse case which is China going off the map not you know and markers go bad you know we prepare for Wars and we prepare for when I got to JPMorgan Chase they used to stress tests and the and you and every business do this use distressed has every input and every output price you have to understand what these things do to you but they said worst case is the stock market going down 10% currencies moving 3% emerging markets moving what credit spreads gapping out 40% I said no no no worst-case equities down 50% okay worst case a credit and so instead of interest breads going from hundred twenty over Treasuries it's not forty percent is you know not very much is to worst case ever and high-yield to worst case average was 17% did twenty percent of crisis so immediately and we and then we had more capital more liquidity we had absolutely zero virtually zero unsecured wholesale funding so a lot of banks particularly in Europe were boring they would simply go borrow from other banks they borrow commercial paper they borrowed the co Eurodollar deposits this is unclad money so it's not like repo it's unclear honey that the other side just simply have to roll over and we had zero so these other banks it was 30 percent of the balance sheet right and some of the investment banks it was you know a big chunk of their balance sheet and we had zero the chance of having to run in JP Morgan was but basically zero so one thing you can't stress test for and the other thing is you sometimes you don't get it you got to run a good profitable company so that when profits are you know this is like business 101 corporate strategy 101 if I'm earning a 20% margin and you're earning 10 you're gonna go bankrupt first ok that's like and our margins we got to find got them up better to everybody else so when you know we never lost money this dress did just show you how severe the stresses are the stress test has had us losing thirty billion dollars in nine quarters after Lehman type event and the nine chords you have to Lehman we made thirty billion and we never lost mine in a quarter that's why I called a fortress balance sheet we were the rockatuer Balta and that would happen today the-the-the events that would make us lose money you know by I'm worried about some X I but there's s in the markets a very little okay well one thing you can't stress test for even with the fortress balance sheet is a world of rising populism of capricious governments of nationalism of unpredictable political reactions or a world where frankly you walk into the White House you collectively and as you just said earlier the president turns around says here comes the globalized elite or the president's advisor that's a pretty unpredictable world that you would not have expected ten years ago so I guess my question really is first of all how high or how much higher do you think populism can go because I wrote a in fact the column that's up on the FT website right now this morning looking at some array Dalio Bridgewater's populist analyses you know thirty five percent of the Western electorate voted for populist candidates in 2017 up from five percent that start the decade I've sat around with people and talked about this recently on Wall Street and in Washington and the consensus is that populism could get even higher quite soon and it's been a key theme of the aspirins Security Forum in the recent days and was discussed yesterday how bad do you think populism could get and how on earth does a big bank that is a very easy target protect itself against being seen as the globalized elite which is a favorite pinata so you say the third major risk is I'm gonna call bad policy okay so that so populism and usually that's what is populism because it's different things to different people in different sides yeah it'll probably get worse and you know public policy has gotten worse and the divisions have gotten worse and you know a and they're all these the fact is people living better than ever before but it's literally around the world and in the United States but and we did a lot of worried the middle class achoms did not go up for 15 years they live better by the way so evens of $55,000 but they live better they live longer medicines better air canoes better cars are safer and stuff like that but the worst part was wage incomes have not kept up with the living wage so you go back 30 or 40 years ago unskilled get a job in a factory and eventually kind of be earning living wage at the house in a car and that's probably untrue today and then then there's this other parsis ayat' ii and i think one of the mistakes we oh man imma blame all of us by the way when the public blames the elite we had the financial crisis and this potted popular is left behind and that part of the population we don't even see we don't have to worry about it we don't go to the schools we don't visit our children in prisons you know we don't have all these things kind of bypass all that so and in some ways so the elite and I'm talking about Union heads CEOs politicians generally to blame that we didn't work together to fix them these problems and you know we talked about them but we've done a terrible job and and that populism is sees two things one is they see a lot of us living really well and that they aren't or maybe getting worse and they also see the government si is incompetent you know so it isn't it isn't that simple that they wanted something like Donald Trump because he'd want to punch lilit in the nose and they know that government doesn't work government wasn't a solution because the Democrats think that government's the solution to everything and you know that doesn't work either so you can see yourself a Republican or Democrat today I don't really care anymore iron iron people I think this knee-jerk reaction of Democrats Republicans is terrible you know if you're a Democrat you should read some of the great writers in the conservative side like George Will and Arthur Brooks and David Brooks and if you want to you know if you're a Republican you should read Tom Friedman and and maybe they're a couple of smart Democrats out there but we've lost the plot about what works and what doesn't work we've lost collaboration we've lost all the things that are really important and and if we don't get back to it this it will get worse so okay so one of the things you said interested me recently it's and I think the press has to help so you know okay well if and don't blame the press that's one thing everyone on both sides appears to unite on right no but I but I'm negative or I'm not as you know I always talk to the press I've never blamed the press for anything they're a reflection of us just so are the politicians we voted so I blame the people for both sides but very often we don't put things in context we don't I don't give you a specific example and we don't educate there you gotta educate poor / the press is to educate and and you know saying here's your opinion here's your opinion is not education that's just state to people's opinions up like that and so like I don't say this to Bernie Sanders didn't want to help his image in any way shape or form but when he gets up there and says we should share the wealth medical for everyone pensions for everyone education for everyone well what that was JPMorgan Chase to tell us what all the big institutions do they're at the forefront of that we pay our people well we shared the wealth we spent a billion dollars you're an educator on people he move him around the world we help them they fall down we give them full medical full dental full help we give them Pilates massages and whatever whatever makes them feel good and so these wonderful institutions have been this class of being kicked every little thing they do wrong like they're bad and it and trust the system drops all the time and it's not just us by what we've done it to the police we've done it to them sometimes in the military they make mistakes you've done it to politicians but this constantly beating people for you know I'm going to say sometimes big mistakes some of those little mistakes and stuff like that but we've got to educate people the PRT so what I'm telling the PRT is business can't be Pro kiyul I was at this thing where I was I was really meeting Prime Minister Modi in India and right before I was meet with some of the wealthiest people in in India and they were complaining about a bunch of stuff he's doing he's doing a great job by the way honestly and you mean I grew there he's doing but he's gonna do he's doing a great job and and I said that we talked to the Prime Minister about they said yes that's what we talked to Prime Minister about I said I said it has it buddy you took income equality these people were 10 20 30 40 billion dollars I said is it ever occur to you go see your Prime Minister that he's looking at you you complained but this doublet running your pocketbook and you got six hundred million people living in poverty maybe we should be thinking about that a little bit and and helping with that with good policy and right but you've actually said recently Jamie that which is very interesting that you think actually the private sector has a big role to play now not the lead role in combating not just general problems in society but at combating income inequality what does that mean are you in favor of redistribution are you in favor of measures to try and actively intervene to calm income inequality or how would you at JPMorgan try to fight populism the FT this dev team I talk about income inequality no they talk about CEO comp maybe look at the CEO comp of all the top CEOs in America and spread it to everybody it would make absolutely no difference okay it is not the point and you're gonna have a market where people compete and maybe some overpaid someone to pay their two for baseballers and writers and everybody else like that that's it's called freedom and freedom of movement and freedom of people you can make mistakes like that yes I would make a major push on so going back to business that they can't be propio so the BRT is around in tax immigration infrastructure or smart regulation education two things work to diagnose the problem first so let's have a public public policy middle wages aren't going up probably mostly because of low growth and slow growth we don't know that for a fact but drive growth work skills we used to be the best in the world at getting kids out of college Community College and they can both go on to the hot college they want as vocational schools with a job so there's a high school of course the per 59th Street bridge in New York called the aviation high school mostly minorities these kids are traveling to three hours an hour to get there when they graduated high school with a high school degree they also have a diploma and maintaining small aircraft they all get a job as $60,000 a year okay we used to do that all of them we don't do it our inner-city schools are failing half the kids and in schools you know don't graduate the ones who graduated prepared again largely minority it's a national emergency there might be an Einstein or you know somewhere in that group that we don't know about and what do we do as a nation about our charter school I mean we have a broken system it's leaving huge swathes behind so government can't do it I'm not saying as an insult I'm simply saying they don't have the capabilities it's hard for them to reorganize it's hard from the change it's hard for the do stuff but government business and identity Civic Society so it could be universities Aspen Institute not-for-profits local leaders working together it works and that's Detroit it works huazi it works they're all these places it works these plays but it doesn't work we hate each other it doesn't work and if you just point fingers you know people know when I was just in Seattle they're talking about when they lost wamu and they lost the headquarters and you know 8,000 jobs are lost how terrible was well why why didn't think of us how good it wasn't they had it as a poster just when it was gone and so yes I think that we should do it and work skills is a big part more growth is a good part you need a growth agenda and telogen growth agenda competitive agenda competitive business taxes were a big part so again I have a different point of view than everybody else we needed competitive business taxes this and what do we get debate or was now the right time who cares we should do it in good times and bad times we need to be competitive the retention of companies in capital United States is critical to long-term of the United States I would have taxed you more than individual side I didn't get involved in that you would attack you want higher taxes on the entire carried interest I would have attacked anyone your kid carried in charter tax when their tax carried interest its raise taxes on the wealthy income tax I had to I would yeah and your I tell you all that if we fix these other problems including infrastructure who's the biggest beneficiary you are you already own everything you know and and you know to pay a couple percent more like state local taxes I think they did the right thing to get rid of that deduction that deduction just give you again facts are really important facts are pesky little things you know like 80 percent of the benefit went to five states Connecticut New Jersey New York Illinois and California eighty percent of the benefit meant to people making over five hundred thousand dollars a year why the hell should Wisconsin Mississippi Arkansas Pennsylvania be subsidizing those profits days they shouldn't they did the right thing to get rid of it and of course you know I told Chuck Schumer they just know we're gonna fight the death on this one so Chuck it's great what about right and wrong for once and and so but here's the other thing I would do that I would do that I think is important I would have a negative income tax we already have it so we already have welfare probes those who don't work and an Earned Income Tax Credit those who work okay the Earned Income Tax Credit I think is collected by a thirty million people so if you're a single mother with two children you get and you make $7 hours all over $13,000 year the government eaves you 6000 your single man with no chill that gum he was like 400 I would double that I would make work great again okay I would I didn't mean it that way okay but I so and the liberal elite and again listen close to him is the liberal lean I grew up in New York City I know most of the liberal elite they're the ones who badmouth starter jobs that's a burger flipper job that's a dead-end job we had a meeting about telogen our tellers make $35,000 and get medical in New York City and it was a big mean like this and some woman the jeweled gets up and says that your your this is grape was just a start a job and a black kid in the not kid an adult got up in the back and said ma'am I'm imagining director JPMorgan Chase I'm responsible hiring 40,000 people here I started to tell her I'm so proud you know started jobs are important the military teaches them McDonald teaches them most McDonald's are owned or managed by people started as a burger flipper and we diminish it so I would have an earned income tax credit because because jobs but get dignity jobs but get better social outcomes less drugs more household formation we have to reform some of the welfare benefits and yet we have to end there's some problems with it but that's what we should do and again you know I taxable to figure out tax you that's what I would do I'd have and and but the economy is doing better you're gonna be far better off if we can get to decide a little more just and people involved and engaged when you come out with a speech like that are you absolutely sure you don't want want to run for president no I would I think again I think it's important that we all be involved in the debate sleeves rolled up doing the right stuff and it's not about whether you were gonna run for president not about are you gonna get engaged and fight for the right stuff but let me ask the guy I'm not saying I'm a patriot performance CEO JP Morgan I mean I I told my gym crowns on my board but I told my board that when I went to see the Chinese officials that you know who were applied for a major license there and when I'm about to say they meant I like very much but I'm a patriot before I told him that too by the way I said look you because I'm so try to put pressure on you about hey you were about to give you this thing I said I'm not your messenger you should fix this problem JP Moyer cuz you don't so be it and that's not exactly what you know you're supposed to as a CEO but before I forget I want to say hi to everyone for my wife she knows a lot of you in the room she's sorry she can't be here she would love to have been here I have again about that my third granddaughter so I mean I'm waiting for the phone and at any time this August 10th is a dude day so hopefully they'll wait a little bit well--that's and I have a fourth granddaughter coming in at two months after that I just sent her love in regards to everybody Paula German that sounds like a pretty strong platform to run for public office from women even better yeah okay let me ask it this way then there aren't many CEOs today who are willing to stick their heads above the parapet now the great thing about interviewing you as a journalist is that you are always outspoken you say it as you see it I dare say you regret some of the things you've said over the years or maybe you don't do you regret anything okay do you think the rest of the CEOs are the CEOs other corporate leaders need to get some spine right now and talk out more openly about their need to get involved in combating income inequality or they need to get involved with on the immigration side because you know we at the FT we talked to CEO of a CEO and in private they say strong things in public they are surrounded by their team of PR handlers and we have the most mealy-mouthed quotes you can imagine you know I'd like to clone you but do you think the rest of the corporate world landscape in America need to get a spine they have to they have to be prepared to take the shot from the press who doesn't like CEO generally talking I'm they're generally hostile to business like how dare you even speak up your your CEO the press it's all start a business business and and you guys where you got to read it between the lines a little bit and but but my point is absolu they should do what they are doing it so the BRT has an immigration we want daca we want to pass the citizenship we want green cards with people go to school we want the family the family migration issue resolved we should have border security that is a real issue by the way and I'm not supporting the wall but you got to have to have border security and in one form another so if we that is a platform the BRT supports the earning of tax credit it's in our platform so if people don't really listen to what you say sometimes when I my daughter when I when the pret Trump secret council my daughter sent me an elegant well thought through beautiful kind of nasty letter how could you dad oh my two other daughters my wife sent really short to the point one saying did oh and my daughter my daughter ended with Martin to a quote from Martin Luther King and all that I called her up trying to educate her I said because I've read most of other and this is the president's Business Council that you know was disbanded but it was never important anyway but I said Julia just learn to read history a little bit closer because Martin Luther King never took himself over the playing field he he'd be going see Trump right now so the notion that you don't like the man or you don't like this and like the positi they you have to take yourself off the playing field that's a huge mistake and so so and I and the BRT is the one or as a the chamber does it I do think organization of to get involved you know we do now it's just been great I don't I'd you to one yet I'm ready you know we're doing now and I think everyone do we have the comb salon dinners but around the subject we buy ten or fifteen press and four or five CEOs to go through in detail trading in detail bureaucracy slash regulation in detail immigration so that it's a lot of give-and-take but everyone walks out a little bit more educated the issues that the public feels and which fixable and not fixable right I'm gonna go to the audience for questions in just a second because I know it's a deeply engaged deeply knowledgeable audience and I'm sure you have a lot of questions so start thinking now but because before I do I want to quickly ask you one other issue which I'm sure is a great interest to everyone here which is health care because you recently stood up and announced that you're part of a trio of companies Amazon Warren Buffett working on essentially overhauling the health care system very interesting project what is actually gonna happen on that front when can we see the results and I guess what many people in the room would like to know is can they join in yeah so so this is storied because we buy again here's health care like just here's context for the press thank you know what do you read about everything bad health care there's Obamacare 10 million people Obamacare changes how many people have health care in America when I guess 275 million we've been arguing about this piece non-stop as if that's the only thing that matters and we didn't fix any health care system Obamacare I was in favor of tribe through universal health care well bomb actually came to the Business Roundtable and said how many of you think we should have done for you literally seventy five percent said it's time to do it and when we didn't get something that worked and unfortunately we spent lost time and stuff so here's the and we shall we buy it we're self-insured we buy it for all of employees we put it plenty half dollars a year every year I go through a nut and the kind of detail probably should be but you know real detail we price it we fund it much more for lower paid individuals for higher pay individuals by the way so we're little bit like Robin Hood that way and we look at wellness programs we've gone from enormous more people doing well as save you 15 lives a year you know PBM drug uses diseases how these could help spouses how we do these things we have more nursing centers and you know all the things that work but I always get very aggravated over the fact that it's just it can't be stopped so to give you an example we all put in high deductibles almost everyone I know did and single plans and the notion that it'll make people shop give them skin in the game and absolutely we've got to get skin in the game but the people shop no cuz they have no information so you don't know what a rotator cost that hospital that house well the outcomes or stuff like that or what the drugs are costing you or you know what the old terms are so but here's the list of issues that way beyond that in American healthcare is now almost 20 percent of GDP okay that's almost twice as much as most developing more than twice as much most developing nations we have the best in the war so we have some of the best doctors best medicines best everything some of the worst no 50 or 60 million people unemployed we don't the right wellness programs are not controlling obesity and obesity and smoking lead to a huge amount of cancer drug depression stroke heart disease etc so wellness problems we kind of understand but do not we can make it even tougher but we have to change the laws to do that end of life is something like 15 to 20 percent of the cost as you probably be half of that administrative cost of thirty five percent and sharp fright and fraud try be half of that we don't keep data I just got back from China we visited ping'an a big insurance company there they have all of your medical data so and it's sanctioned by the government this would be a probably an issue in America so if I want to get your medical data your childhood data is with your childhood physician this dad's with this position if you had a surgery with that physician Obamacare actually did something like to try to put these records together but that data isn't hugely valuable for you what's what's causing your problem what this might mean what the diagnosis might be so those long and PBMs I woke up woke up and your rabbit epip n hay and $100 EpiPens to 600 it irritated me so I started talking Todd combs about it and and I called up our people I came in I told my management about you also are they all so I said but not one of you is asking I'm about to ask why who and what are we paying and it took me weeks to find out what we paying some like hundred thirty dollars we get rebates and discounts and it sounds like complete to me and I started looking at PBM Todd combs start sending me all these research reports and stuff like that and somehow I we started to talk to Warren and Jeff we could have dinner every now and then together and we're all like riled up about health care and we got to do it better so we decided with your idea first was it no we all were just yapping about should do something on the great Dorian I don't remember who I don't remember who said let's form a group but we kept only three companies is a management instructed here that is a forty-three company health care lines doing the same stuff is it gonna work who sits on the board it's a debate chart no it's not gonna work you know and these companies who are selling are really sophisticated and unlike Jeff from Warren by the way a lot of these health care guys are my clients and some of are quite pissed off when this doctor fell five percent and but I told them you know what would you try to do a better job that's your job to tell me so don't get mad at me offer your help and anyway but long-term control three people on a handshake we had hired Atul Gawande I know we've been here a couple of times big brain and big heart yeah you gave it he's spoken here at the Institute quite a bit we're meeting I meet with him almost every week now for you know I was saying up getting real estate Kenny space tell telephones administrative but eventually think it will have big data legal experts because I think we have changed the laws a little bit medical professionals and then when I start figuring out what we're gonna attack so we have a million ideas but you know a lot of you know Jeff Bezos would say I know his dad is here he always says you know in Chile I had big dreams to internet but he did books for fifteen years or ten years is that lets get books right so we're probably figure let's take this thing it may be a drug maybe one chronic care may be telemedicine may be data or maybe five or six different initiatives but starting to attack the problem we don't expect to see anything on this immediately like in a year it'd be nice if we could say in a year hey we found something to fix this and share it we may opens up to other people you know but I'm hoping if at a minimum I think will lead to better outcomes satisfaction better ideas for own employees and a maximum maybe it'll help America reform a system that's a hope and a dream that's not we want by I hope it couldn't accomplish that and we're going to take the time and effort to stick with it right well I'm sure there's a lot of people in the room who will be keenly interested and very much wishing you well on that project but I think we should open up to questions now we have about twenty minutes are not a lot of time so please keep your questions or comments very short and to the point please obviously keep them courteous and it would also be courteous but not call three to identify yourself so let's take a question at the back over there good afternoon Roger currents Pittsburgh Pennsylvania there's a much discussion now regarding an inverted yield curve and how that foretells the onset of recession well I can see some instances where higher short-term interest rates will slow the economy the level interest rates now and expect are far from historic terms far from high in the sort terms so why such a concern the inverted yield curve down this shouldn't be I think you know people I can't do it very simplistic like well when those time that happen we had a recession okay well that that may be true yeah look at the circumstance the economy is booming that we've had a suppression of long term rates that suppression is reversing now and you know the rate should be at 4% today so there's a very good possibility you can see the short rate go up and the longer it go up that's also happened before and also people look in the two purses tends they should be looking at the three month versus tens and I just history rhymes it just doesn't repeat that is just people saying well as left has happened that's the inversion there is a point so if I so if inflation was going up and even the the bond is at 4% of 5% and the Fed has to raise rates rapidly which Paul Volcker raised rates 200 basis points on a Sunday night you remember that didn't say this is gonna be nice and easy he gave you tough medicine and then then when they raise rates above a real rate okay yeah that's that is a recessionary thing that isn't what we're seeing today in the economy inflation all stuff like that yeah I was saying I was recently trying to Ben Bernanke about this and he made the point showing Bernanke that he doesn't think an inverted yield curve signals a recession even though it has in the past but it's an interesting issue right we have lots two hands waving here let's go there and then there and then if anyone's on this so I've got a question are they move to that side I'm Bruce macabre with work should capitalize Financial Services regulation is and chances of ever getting a single regulator no there's no there's no chance you get I mean one of the mistakes we made again this is structural is that we set up like the F stock should we had the group always people overseen the economy talking look around of course we should but we have a group of people who own controls it so like mortgage rules are written by seven regulators ok Volcker rules are written by five regulators we have five interpretation of those rules and and mortgage stuff there are three thousand servicing requirements mores rules alone and servicing have reduced Mooresville availability by trillions of dollars and they hurt low paid immigrant self-employed not JPMorgan I've told this many times in the Fed and we have real evidence to prove this so but there's no chance you have legislation to change it and therefore we're stuck with it most cut is gone the other way around have one regulator you know who's got who or two but have you know have real authorities but one regulator because no one could adjudicate they're all independent be worth their butts of course they're not I mean I always told Geithner and Jack Lew close the door throw out the key and tell me until we finish these mortgage rules he's not leaving the damn room that's what the president states once and and I and by the way I think that Steve minuchin wants to do that too and is probably much more knowledge about the mortgage issues than anybody else cuz he was in it do you think Steve Newton is being prevented from creating more intelligent financial regulation no he's actually rolled out four reports Treasury reports very detailed about all of these rules where they're not coordinated which we looked at recalibrated what if that they had small business lending a lower middle-income lending credit card lending payday lending shadow banking it's very well done thoughtful stuff and what do you get done regulatory wise I don't know but they've just got the regulators in place so I think some of us will change over time but I'll just be a constant recalibration you're not gonna see a massive rewrite of dodd-frank we have a question on there and then over there Jamie Shelley pristine Aspen what risks do you can you assess to the lack of liquidity in the fixed income and equity markets as a result of the regulatory environment and the banks if we were to get into a somewhat difficult situation yes so the risk other walk it's gonna seize up there real risk and again the right we had some seizing up member and anywhere in a couple of times and certain securities collapse and stuff like that and but of course you know in some ways people say I was great look we've had these problems and there's no problem therefore it's not a big deal I tell the regulars you need to test that kind of stuff when tough times are tough not one time is it good it will cause an issue and I don't know the full extent so again I like to look at bookends one issue is it just less liquidity less stuff it takes people long get out of positions people a little more cautious what they buy you create a lot of people to create their own liquidy now by keeping more cash effectively or you know more of course they run their own portfolios I'm not sure that's great for the economy but that's what they're doing but there is this one that if all these things hit in a bad way that you can't sell securities stocks down 10 or 20 percent that people start to panic people liquidate things ETF don't work exactly the way some people expected mark yeah that could cause market panic it won't just because of market making it'll because the effect of reversing QE higher inflation different monetary transmission monetary policy and regulatory requires like LCR and Volcker and that mix of stuff can there's a chance to be toxic again I look at possibilities and probabilities I'm not predicting that JP more will be fine the American economy the American economy may might may not be I expect nothing less I mean I'm Scott quartz from Aspen and we're in a bull market now that's run 3,400 days we're up well over 300% in a world where the average bull market post-world War two is eighteen hundred days in 161 percent we're wondering if this bull market is in the ninth inning if it's been juiced by the tax deal and my other concern is the average weight of defensive stocks in portfolios all over the country right now is only 10 to 15 percent is that a concern so again I think you can't give you bookends in this to think about it if we we may is ten years nine years is recovery and that's the same question for the length of the bull market the bull market price goes until right before the economy starts to turn generally and the economy what I just told you before is that becomes quite well so I can actually go for two or three more years you know there's no law that says have to stop now business and now of course we may shoot yourself in the foot but if it goes for two or three more years companies to make profit at the margin if we have two and a half or three percent growth corporate profits will be a five six seven eight ten percent that fully justifies Pease today any credit spreads even if multiples come down now you get your money grows now you're grown into what other over time if you postulate we have a recession tomorrow no stocks with 30 or 40 percent overvalued and so I just don't know because I don't know what's the exact weather that is and but I think there's a better chance you can have a runway of growth and stuff like that but I totally agree with you by the way on the the valuation is the distortion is because of ETFs and passives and how people look at stocks remember the public speculates you know when we had the IPO boom in the 2000 and they were excoriating thing about the disclosures an IPO documents disclosures banking conflicts banking conflict what one of you ever read a frequent perspectives quite serious let's get in you heard it's a good thing it's gonna run for a while it's the same thing that home prices the same thing in China stock market the same thing and that happens if people don't pay attention to something pay attention to you know if these guys are gonna go to the moon two trillion and so I do agree that's a little bit issue people get hurt its life I can see a lot of hands waving but I'd like to to be interventionist from moment and say we have some super smart women in the audience I'd like to make the next question from a woman please because I actually okay over there fantastic thank you Judy Alan from Houston Texas yes Judy could you speak to us about what the banking industry needs to worry about in terms of our accounts being hacked or interfered with and my second question is can you speak to us about the long-term future of crypto currencies do you believe in Bitcoin yet so the the hacking stuff like that I I put down as a risk the government knows about a cyber it is probably the biggest risk face in the nation today across banking electrical grids aircraft we are unprotected banks and defense companies are quite good at we spend seventy million dollars a year everything that we are about tracking everything we know what our employees do every day we upload a download we've got trip wires and kill switches every time you send money as a corporation or credit card it goes through hundreds of algorithms to make sure it's not fraud the thing that happened to the Federal Reserve begging you never happen to us so we do your company your even your company payments go through multiple tests time of day who use it where it went why when even how you use the computer sometimes it's just a test and make sure these aren't frozen transactions so you are very safe but a massive cyber attack either nation state of criminal it's a big deal and so what well I think we're very very protected I think that those that is a big deal and so um and we do that's the one area I call it we were a police state we don't take prisoners we I don't care what complains about it we're gonna put rules in place about how we're gonna function inside the company we probably went to all the cloud providers and gave them much more when we do it a little bit now but much more stringent rules a third-party oversight who your task to out goes when if you do business with us I'm sure some of you do we've tortured you we know a lot more about your cyber risk your stuff like that that you probably knew about your own and so because we can't have you hooked into our systems if you present a certain type of risk to us and we do the same thing in privacy and all these other things do you how many how many attacks how many cyber attacks do you face each day hundreds of thousands hundreds of thousands each day because I mean we talked about this before and I was stunned by that figure and I actually didn't believe it and I went back and checked with so you at JPMorgan alone are facing hundreds of thousands of cyber attacks every single day reminder you should worry about isn't attacking jaemor is it they're going to go up to the weak spots in the system and think of the weak spots I mean I we've tried to do a third-party oversight in the Federal Reserve they won't let us I guess a little bit maybe a weak spot thank government systems or weak spot the IRS has been rated many times in clearing exchanges clearing houses we tortured them for the ho stuff so there are these weak spots and buy so what regulation you know the biggest risk is to regulation the resources going into stupid stuff that should be going to cyber privacy AI and and you know we got eight thousand people read documenting forms from five years ago because the regular said we didn't cross the T and dot the I we spent billions of dollars doing K White Way I'm sure he's torture on you and KY caml BSA we haven't found one bad guy billions of dollars billions and of course it's in his board time it's it's it's computer time its regulatory time it's brain time that's the whole thing and we this is the one we should be worried about so blockchain is real okay because it's a technology it's not that complicated technology it's it's a ledger of data you have to be what the data is how its encrypted who can use it how its permission and all stuff like that we use it for a bunch of stuff ready but it has to be use case so you have to write the code and it can't be used for certain things so it could be used for if we trade loans at the end of the day and settle it all the data that custody is need and the buyer the seller the tax officials need could all be in that updated we all trust it but like FX tre and equity tre we do thousands of traders split second you can't update these files but second so it won't be good for certain things that costs money so we do equity training you know course very little it could add 10 or 20 cents to trade just to update the blockchain for everyone else's block change and stuff like that so crypto currency is a scam I mean you said with all that you said before you would fire anybody in JP Morgan who was dealing in Bitcoin because that was dumb I didn't wet saying I don't want to make myself a poison poster boy against Bitcoin so I don't really care you guys do whatever you want I have no interest in Bitcoin but of course the second I said it you know the underground I mean they're they're death threats under knees against and of course the big guy said that they all I'm saying I'm on the internet you get you know they check the web and stuff like that just the hostility and anger and and they're just the the banks took a damn they want to defend this they want to defend the system is the best way here this is the fraud okay there's there's gold all the gold in the room would fit into ten probably ten times the size this it's not replicatable what gold be worth it was replicatable nothing like saying there were something so it's not like gold because bitcoin aetherium bitcoin - like coin change going that it gets replicated so you guys a bitcoin maintain that value but only one about there now and they'll have different purpose stuff like that fiat currency I've heard this Damon it's a matter of trust no given the Bitcoin you trust Bitcoin you trust the encryption fiat currency is not simply a matter of trust it is the legal tender of the land you have to accept it at par okay it is defended by the courts the law the police and the military okay the central bank is supposed to defend it they get to base it of course they can but the job is not to the job is to make sure it has value down the road the US dollar means something and on the other side of a US dollar what is there look at what's the bank within the bank the balance sheet of the Central Reserve the Federal Reserve Bank okay is four trillion dollars the trillion dollars is currency okay and then the other side of the balance sheet what are the assets their obligations of the United States government that asset is supported by the full faith of the taxing power and the military of the United States government of America so the notion is the same thing finally the bigger gets the more government gonna close it down they don't like big things they don't like things they can't control they're already doing it Korea Japan and China the guns didn't get scared here a little old ladies you lose money and then the terrorism it's already been use a little bit for terrorism so and how do you stop it well if I said - I'm from the DOJ if you buy yourself Bitcoin a bet to buy and sell Bitcoin you're going to go to jail I tell you stop it it'll still exists because it's all over the world it'll still be used for promised a are good use cases not legitimate good criminals tax avoiders course border transactions crooks and by the way if you were in Venezuela Cuba or a bunch of other countries you're probably better off having Bitcoin in the currency so so it won't go away but you know to say it's the same thing as the US dollar is virtually insane Wow well we are very very sadly we could frankly carry on talking all day Bray's loudly out of time I have two things to say firstly that if you ever decided you would like a member of the great unwashed press and long on your bus tours as a fly on the wall to see what's happening well we did see NBC from the bus tour oh well the FT should be there too I would volunteer any time I'd love to see your bubble oh you guys I think you have the FT long but it'd be fascinating to see your bus tour all right well it's a listening tour it's fascinating but I guess the more important point is this you may not be willing to go into public service yet although I think the question is certainly there about your longer-term future but I think on behalf of ever in the room we can certainly say a heartfelt thanks for the way that from the private sector you've used your position to advance not just the interests of JP Morgan but a wider debate about the responsibilities of the corporate sector and civil society to work together to try and solve many of the other intractable problems in America so thank you thank you very very much appreciate it

Channel: The Aspen Institute

Views: 98,931

Rating: 4.751852 out of 5

Keywords: Jamie Dimon, JPMorgan Chase & Co, JP Morgan, Aspen Institute, Gillian Tett, summer celebration, Financial Times, interest rates, cryptocurrency, Bitcoin, crypto, blockchain, chief executive officer, Colorado

Id: CxJXO352x-g

Length: 67min 51sec (4071 seconds)

Published: Mon Aug 06 2018