A Conversation with Dr. Robert Smith, Jr.

[Music] thank you for joining us again that from the lectern this is Walter Strickland on the campus of southeastern Seminary this morning I have a wonderful honor of having a guest with me this is dr. Robert Smith jr. he's a professor of preaching at Beeson Divinity School and has been there serving the kingdom for a number of years now so grateful to have you here Thank You doc Strickland and there's basically if I had to make my Mount Rushmore of preachers I put you on there I know you probably wouldn't want yourself to be on there but I don't put you on line so it's a pleasure to have you here with us and I look forward to having a conversation that will be helpful for me friend for others who listen so just to begin I know you've been preaching for a while but what gave you this passion for preaching hmm well I I was called it was not anything that I saw it sought me I'm I'm Anna Amos Amos said I'm not a prophet I'm not even the son of a prophet but while I was gathering sycamore fruit in shepherding my father's sheep the Lord took me up so that's what has happened to me the Lord has taken me up and has enveloped me so that preaching is not something that I try to make happen is something that happens without my effort because he's put me in the stream of the Spirit and I simply just allow the current to carry me I'm like an eagle I let the wind if you will beneath my wings provide me I'm using the metaphor for the spirit now the new mother spirit the wind to to carry me so calling is everything for me it's it's not it's not a choice it's it was not an option it was not anything that researched and it was not anything that I was encouraged to do I was called so I got to can't help it Stockton whatever come that's what it is so as you were receiving that call yeah who are those early influences that shaped you as a preacher my father in the ministry his name is because he is though he has been in heaven since December the 18th 1978 he was a disciplinarian I was saved when I was 7 and made a junior deacon in our little church Rose chapel Missionary Baptist Church of Cincinnati Ohio I was made a junior deacon when I was nine which had no kind of authority it provided me with an opportunity to sit with the Deacons on the front row and stand with them as they sung the hymns and what we call led devotion and prayed the prayers and read the scriptures my feet would be up like this because I was too short for them to touch the floor but he demanded excellence even at nine years of age my parents gave me to him and said that you can do anything you need to do with little Robert my father was addition he was deacon Robert Smith senior and which meant that he could discipline me what that meant was he could whip me I had to get my schoolwork done and didn't get my church work done and then I could go out the play go out and play if there was time for it I had to know the 24 articles of faith at 9 years of age I had to know the Baptist Church covenant at 9 years of age I was not allowed to read what we call us pieces which were a little Easter or Christmas sayings that you would offer as a rendition in the Christmas and Easter play he demanded excellence and was a disciplinarian and so I grew up under that not so much he loved me he didn't let me get by with anything so he was a third parent he was he was the external reader if you will PhD program he he was outside of my family and yet in in the family because I I would see him all week long he took up the Lord he was my Eli I was his Samuel that's really what it was with a smart do that next question yes but um as far as your preaching I've watched you preach many times and it seems like you just ooze scripture scripture just comes out theity that the truth of God does come out and you mentioned early on that you had memorized you know catechisms and you memorize different you know Crees or different statements of faith and these sorts of things so did that continue on throughout your ministry memorizing everything as well memorization for me is a preliminary the final result is internalization you memorize so that you can turn alized and once it's internalized and then it resides within you effortlessly it's just there without an effort like I can ask you to say your ABC's right now and you wouldn't struggle with it yeah and you haven't said them I'm sure for many years goes in a way that's that's demeaning to be asked say you ABC's wrong maybe but that's that's that's what I'm saying it's it's hiding the word in your heart to the point that you read it then you become familiarized with it he become you begin to visualize it you become you get the place that you can internalize it so you can actualize it and vocalize it but it all starts with familiarization getting familiar with it and feeling it and hearing the different voices and tasting the different tastes and seeing the different sites so that every sense of your being is engaged as you look at the text so you know he knew what he was doing I mean he preached from a manuscript that was not it at all what he wanted was to get the material in me so that if I use the manuscript or I use Dom a little outline are you sticky notes or if I preach without notes it didn't matter what mattered was getting it in you so much so that you turned the ink in the blood the ink of the manuscript into the blood of your life and you're able to to share out of your heart that's what he was after yeah that's great so as you're doing so in preparation yeah are you spending half your time just throw out half arbitrarily memorizing and just soaking in the word or you spend more time in commentaries and in the Greek text and the Hebrew text something like this spending time at all of it I my students know in fact it's probably the greatest gift that the Lord has given to me to give them that I expect him to read the text 50 times before they pick up on commentary anything else because I want him to live in the text I want them to wrestle with the text I want them to look at the text like it's a diamond and to see a facet that they've never seen before just continuing to turn it so much so that they become the embodied word it's embodied within them and then after that after they have done that and they're writing as they read when I say read at 50-times I don't mean in one setting necessarily I do mean living within the atmosphere the environment of it so that it gets in you you put in a CD of whatever you're preaching as you're driving and you're listening to the chapters you just listen to this listing the last thing you do before you go to bed you read because I'm firm believer and the psychologists has confirmed this that sometimes the last thing that you do before you go to sleep will get into your sleep like a horror story and you so I just say well goodness that's the case I'm gonna read scripture and imma let on why my body rest imma let my mind work and deepen it and even in a deeper than deep in it and then we're after you've done all of that I think now you can begin to do the other things you mentioned the commentaries and all that because I think we get to that too quickly but then you can argue with Douglas move and you can argue with da Carson and you can you can argue with Cain hope filter troubling biblical waters in that tactic because now you've thought about it you lived in the Eve's in you know you've got a good point there Luther but no I think this is better I'm not gonna go with you but if you go and go to talk to Luther and you haven't investors invested yourself in it you don't really have anything to say Luther I don't have anything to say little buddy if I have spent time praying and struggling with it Luther's gonna have to talk to me before I grab his boy because the same God who inspired him inspires me so that's yeah that's that's what that's what I did that's your reminder to not get to the tools exactly that's rich that's rich so you've already mentioned your the Deacon at your church and what a blessing that was who are suddenly you're preaching heroes well largely Alexander like I said my old pastor I got from him internalization but you just talk about when I was 19 years of age I come to code to the others very quickly I priests in this church Shiloh Missionary Baptist Church in Newark Ohio which is outside of Columbus and it was on the Saturday and I never forget it I took his pulpit commentary I'm 19 I started preaching at 17 and I wrote down 50 pages of on a ledger from his pulpit commentary 50 pages hmm I'm preaching a youth and young adult de-facto youth day cuz I'm only 19 he had been a pro tonight because I went to the restroom I seemed I could see that he was in bed reading door was cracked got up that morning for breakfast he asked me he said he called me Bobby Bobby you've got your sermon yes sir go get yourself like Auditor I felt real proud all that study 50 pages is this your sermon you said if you need all of that and you can't remember any of that to say that the people who've never read that then how you think you're gonna understand hmm he took it and tore it up page by page and he said go features are I had less than an hour to preach if I had to preach it's the greatest thing that he ever did for me because it was not a manuscript he preached from Amanda he wanted you to internalize it so that it became yours the second person was George Q Brown he was my second pastor and at that time I was married he taught me passion he taught me that a congregational sighs has nothing to do with preaching I'm in Boone riding with him as a young preacher around route 22 up to Canton Ohio from Cincinnati there were about ten people in the congregation it didn't affect him I've seen him preached a thousand didn't change him didn't make him more or less he loved the word and his passion caught on fire when the illumination of the text revealed itself to him and so passion for me has nothing to do with whether you are an extrovert or whether you speak loudly or softly or whether you're expressive enough it's fire shut up in your bones when the word of God becomes clear and God speaks to you and your passion is turned on which may mean that it is evidence with a soft voice because the power is not in the boys the power is in the essence of the expression so you can say the Lord is hot being screaming it doesn't making more good because you scream it all that's good because you say it softly but the essence of the expression based upon how you're feeling has intersected with the fact of that text so he taught the passion and then James are immersing taught me function James MSE says a sermon must have a function number one they ought to be proclamation in every sermon in which you initiate the hearer into the faith for the purpose of salvation every sermon ought to have gospel in it second of all they ought to be teaching where you instruct people about the faith for the purpose of maturation folks are saying now you need to mature them move them from milk to meet move them from infancy to maturity but in the third thing is a sermon has to have therapy to inspire people to keep the faith so if people come into the church and they love the Lord they're saved them a tour but they've got a bad diagnosis cancer a death has been in the family there's been a relational rift there's a child that now is a waiting trial on the next day and you worshiping on Sunday you need inspiration you need hope I don't mean feel-good stuff I'm telling it even if the storms don't see so the winds keep on blowing in my life my soul is still anchored in the law so that that was extremely important and then the last person is my favorite theologian helmet tilaka and tilaka would say there needs to be confrontation you got a confident confront people he did that apologetically so that you stay and for the truth against heresy - there has to be a limit in which you are rooting out heresy in the church and three there has to be catechesis in which you are nourishing the church through teaching all of that all three of those things along with massive and has helped me in terms of formulating my preaching and making sure you know is the inspiration here is if there ever hears their teaching is approximate you is this a text that is addressing bulimics isn't addressing catechesis isn't addressing apologetics so those have been those individuals have greatly influenced me as far as those those elements that I see and tell which ones come most difficult to you and which ones come easiest to you these is is catechesis teaching people don't bother you about teaching too much Jesus did real good in his inaugural sermon as long as he recited the text but then when he started applying it today this scripture is fulfilled in your hearing and about the non-jewish widow and the non-jewish leper they wanted to martial him up to the top of the hill and push him over because he's now dealing with this whole idea of polemics erases your nathless and you think God can't work in any other people except you that he can't take and work with name and the Gentile leper and with the widows their faith the Gentile woman God is working with all people they didn't like that so you'll get you'll get that I mean I love the teaching I really do love apologetics polemics but is more of a challenge because you're coming to the church and you're saying like Paul says in 2 Corinthians I'm coming to you and I will set things in order in other words we're gonna have a powwow meeting we were gonna have a come-to-jesus meeting nobody wants that in the church we want the love of God but the other side of the love of God is a wrath of God and whom God loves he chastises and like that so that that's something that I have to and that's the power of expository preaching what is in the text that's what you preach you'll have to bring it to it there it is yeah in your book the doctrine that dances you mention a tri-dimensional and the tri-dimensional is feeling seeing and hearing yeah so tell me how you basically break down a sermon or develop a sermon to begin to input those things in there do you just naturally do it or do you have a checklist and make sure that you do those things throughout the sermon or how do you make sure that those get into the this remark on the chick the checklist the opportunity Empire is inside of me I feel it I got the first of all here the text I don't mean just hearing what the text is saying but what is the text doing mm-hmm I kind of hear that once I hear it then I can see it and once I see it then I feel it feeling is last it's it's like of Luke 21:24 history as road experience now they don't know this is Jesus they think this is a stranger Topher's and whoever this anonymous disciple is and he's talking to them and he asked him why your confidences why is your continent so sad why does long face don't you know what happened the other day on Friday what things he's the only one who knows what's going on but he ain't talking how jesus nazareth and prophet mighty in words indeed was crucified and this is the third day's still dead Jesus listen to all of that and finally said to them they still don't know he is full slow to believe all that the prophets have spoken only you was not necessary for Jesus nice to first died and on the third day rise again and he went on and talked to them about why Christ must suffer and how in the Old Testament the Old Testament is speaking about here when he is invited their home and he who was guest becomes hosts and he breaks the bread and they recognized him probably saw the prince when he did this and his side he disappeared from this side then they said did not our hearts burn within us while he talked with us by the way and over the scripture they had learning first he opened to us the scriptures the second of all they had Burnie the learning proceeded the burning the feeling yes it and then last of all they had journey we gotta get up from here tonight and go back and tell the eleven that Christ is risen so for me it's hearing the text and then seeing what the text is doing is doing something is it moving people to commit is it exhorting people to worship is it persuading people to be more bold in the gospel whatever it is it's doing something every text has a mood Psalm 23 the moon is comfort security trust Matthew 23 its wrath worn to you snakes fight press you hypocrites you cross land and sea to make one convert one proselyte and when you made that proselyte that person is a twofold child here that's a different mood from Psalm 23 and so that's what I want to get into the text and feel the mood the temperament the textual attitude what's going on here not just what it is saying but what is it doing and then when I get there then I want to pray that I will fit into that mood that I will sound like the text you know because the text has a certain sound Psalm 150 praising the Lord praise God in this sanctuary praise Him in the from another spot praise him for his mighty acts pray it was execrated praise him with the unabomber that's a different sound then when I was just quoting to you from Matthew 23 war do you see so I need my voice needs to sound that way my body needs to sound like hmm here is jubilation mmm his condemnation and the bosses need to be distinctly this thing so I just love how you're describing even our the wouldn't be pronounced there are words the way that we carry ourselves on of our exegesis it is oh no offense I wish dr. Strickland I wish I could have been there to hear Jesus say at the Bethany Cemetery as iris come forth I mean how did he say that did he have to say how could he have just said Lazarus come forth I would have loved to have seen his expression yeah you know anybody could have said that but they didn't have the kind of power that would be able to make a resurrection a selective appearance come forth because every dead person would have got enough he is a resurrection but Azeris say I want I would like to have heard him say that I would have liked to have heard him say in Matthew 23 37 o Jerusalem Jerusalem you know when the the Greek language wants to reinforce something Hebrew is that way particularly the words are mentioned twice Oh Jerusalem Jews Oh Saul Saul why are you persecuting me Samuel said Moses Moses take off shoes from your feet if I understand it's all agree Oh Jerusalem thou who's killed the prophets there was suddenly you how often when I've gathered you as he and gather there little bit ease their cheeks and then here's a disappointment and you wouldn't know I like that I think he probably like he wept over the walls at Drew's will in Luke 1941 he probably wept if not outwardly and what he wouldn't come I came here I called you but you wouldn't come hmm yeah I just think the moon is very important for us to try to capture as best as we can yeah so so in your own sort of exegetical perceives is there a genre in scripture that comes most naturally to you that narrative because I come from an oral and you do to tradition not a script tradition you know we were not supposed to have been able to read and write in the days of slavery you know we went 244 years without a payday or paycheck if you count 1619 Plymouth Rock if you will to the Emancipation Proclamation so the oral tradition in that we passed stories on stories that's that's how we kept is to be alive it's it's Elie Wiesel survived of the Holocaust who said about the Holocaust don't talk about the harlot gospel just keep telling the story this is what never gets forgotten and has never repeated so that's what we do that's why we sing I love the tale the story will be my theme in glory to tell the old old story of Jesus and his love its narrative but it's not narrative without a theological foundation is not just telling a story the story is only as good as its foundation and since it's based on Christ then we tell the story because stories don't have points stories have movement stories have plots they develop you know there is complication there is suspension there is resolution there is the antagonist there is the protagonist there is the nod of of suspense and the nod of recognition all those things that's why you go to a movie you if you knew how the store is goin you wouldn't go you liked the movement you liked the suspense and you stay there until you find out who the hero and who the company is well we have an advantage in that we can flip over to Calvary and the third day after and know what how the story ends and then come back and tell the story with confidence because we know that we already more than Congress we already victorious so yeah I've narrative but you know all the other genres are very important but to our culture and I'm concerned about that I say this I say this to African American students don't forget how to tell the story you know do your but theology is just a way of participating in God talking how do you do that you do it through narrative the Bible is God's narrative God does not have a history but what we what we are doing is telling his story and he gets in aa history so much so that it's it's it's a story again like I said with a theological bedrock it's embedded in theology and theology must be based upon scripture so that we say what God has said and don't commit eisegesis but rather exegesis yeah so good so tell me woods I guess in every generation you see trends and preaching you see trends and teaching what what trends currently in preaching concern you but also encouraging as well one of the things that concerns me is we're getting to the place where we are on the very edge of socializing the gospel so for fear that we just don't address the social issues we think we can preach the gospel and totally ignore the social Quagmire's that we have to face no I I don't want to socialize the gospel I wanna gospel eyes a social I want the gospel to speak to everything God is not just concerned about getting you to heaven Robert Smith if that was the case soon as you got saved absent for the body president law he's concerned about your family he's concerned about your mind he's concerned about a social inequity he's concerned about racial disparity he's concerned about children who come to school like my wife teaches first graders as a volunteer and many of them come to school without anything to eat at all he's concerned about social programs and school programs that had money allocated for food for kids who couldn't eat being cut God and to show you that I know we're tempted to say well Luke 4:18 and following that's Jesus is inaugural sermon the spirit Lord God's plan maybe is known to me to preach the gospel to the poor sent me to bind up the brokenhearted to preach to those who are bruised priests accepted that's spiritual really ok then how do you handle Matthew 25 when I was hungry you didn't feel all that's is that spiritual when I was sick you didn't visit me when I was outdoors you didn't take me no it's it's not either/or is both an and so the gospel has to be as Manuel Lee Scott senior says I wouldn't have a gospel then I couldn't preach on the other side of town he's gotta be on both sides of that both sides of the track so that the gospel you know Jesus was a pretty good preacher and he would set his preaching up by dealing with the social matters which oftentimes had to do with hunger and as Lesley knew begin the English the British missiology says empty stomachs do not have ears if there if did they won't listen if they teach a first-grader something and you can hear your stomach screaming for him and they teach you I think the church must make everything it does a ministry recreation that'll be a ministry why why some people can have a place to play basketball no no no no no bring them in a place to pray basketball and then use that as an arena to introduce them to Christ same way with feeding people you feed people that's great but if you don't as a missionary if you go over and you build houses habitat for a manatee and all that but you don't preach the gospel then you have failed as a missionary because ultimately you're doing the building the houses in order for it to provide and insurance for you into the lives of people to talk about Jesus so it's both and the gospel is holistic it's not just spiritual and that that does bother me so we either ignore it or we socialize the gospel and become social activists and advocates and jettison or throw overboard the gospel we don't breed we just deal with social sound apart we even don't deal with it all we leave the gospel and deal with it do that preach the gospel and let it address the hymn the wholeness of humanity now what excites me is to see young prophets and professors like dr. Michael star Strickland like you that's what excites me who understands that there must be an inextricable relationship between the cranial and the cardiological the mind and the heart and so the see you sitting here inspires me an individual who's invested himself into being trained so that he can train others and what has been given to us Paul says that you take and you you give it to other people other faithful persons so that the gospel and the work of the Lord can be responsibly replicated and perpetuated I just want to say that we have all been and say we all either there's only three of us in the room here but the listeners have all been encouraged by you so it's a give-and-take but it really is and so thank you for really spending time with us now harmonic but really leaving a legacy for all of us leaving a exegetically oriented Christ centered Bible rich you know big God legacy for all of us to capture and then to hand down to to others who are around us so thank you for that I guess there's any any final exhortations that you might have for those who are listening before we before we're done well I would just I would say I say this to myself as well we are fighting from victory to victory that's important stand up for Jesus I'm borrowing that from that line from victory under victory his Alma Shelly lead to every fall is vanquished and Christ is Lord indeed so be encouraged that you already more than conquerors Luther was right he said that the devil has been defeated and he said that his his head has been cut off but his tail still rifts right it still Wiggles you see so the seed of the woman has bruised his head Satan has lost he knows that and if we never find out that we already on the winning side if we ever find out what it means to serve victus Krista Vic victus Krystal Christ is victorious Christ is Lord we'd be dangerous people but I don't think we know who we are but when you when you know who you are who you are then when you mount up to do whatever God has called you to do you realize that it's not just you it's God who's doing it through you that's that's the joy for me I'm glad I'm not a solo performer in fact I'm not a performer I'm glad that I'm in partnership with one who has promised that he'd never leave me nor forsake me yeah thank you for that well if they you for joining us today this is dr. Robert Smith jr. our wonderful guest if you have not read doctrine that dances please do yourself a favor pick that up it's a wonderful book it'll encourage your preaching and teaching ministry but also encourage your soul and so thank you for that gift that you've left to us god be praised and so this is Walter Strickland signing off at southeastern Seminary this is the fungal I turn video series and so if you want to know more information about southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary and the college that southeastern you can go to s CB TS IE d you if you like to follow what we're doing at Keenan diversity you can go to Twitter and follow us at Kay underscore diversity or you can look at us on the Internet grace of peace [Music]

Channel: Kingdom Diversity

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Length: 35min 3sec (2103 seconds)

Published: Wed Mar 04 2020