#97 Mark Howard - Howie Games

[Applause] howie welcome to dylan friends podcast my friend it's an honor it's a pleasure and it's an absolute privilege to have you on the show the absolute goat of podcasting and just dominating in all facets of life so it's a real honor today mate and a big tick in my box to have you on it's a nice intro i'm normally doing the intros i can't wait to have a chat with you mate you're killing it i don't know about the goat but it's certainly a fun space the podcasting is we've both found out but is this a step up for me don't worry about your fox cricket or footy or the howie games this is for me all the cool kids are listening to dill and friends so i'm very happy to be here mate well i really appreciate that mate and it's it's amazing because i suppose i know you're a big fan of my show as i am of yours but i normally start each episode sort of setting the tone of where we met and how we first came along and for us it's probably a very fitting time to have this chat because i do remember um obviously the howie games one of the biggest podcasts the biggest sorry sporting podcast in australia at the moment and i remember calling you back in 2018 when i first decided to you know start the podcasting game and and get some advice off yourself and you know i really do appreciate and i look back at that something today that's been incredible do you remember that phone call i do i do i remember it i was driving up to the footy because i would have told you to ring me at that time and we had a long chat about everything that i've learned and you've taken that and gone further but it's gone the other way because i must tell you listen i rang you four months ago and said i don't know anything about merchandise and you said don't worry and you set me on the path to merchandise so it's it's been a nice symbiotic relationship mate it has and there was a little bit though how i do um must regress on what i said because there was a part when i was driving down a long road and i was listening to some radio and triple m obviously my favorite radio station in the world and i was driving home and to hear one of my heroes talk about me on radio and then the news wasn't as great i've got a clip here for you if we can just replay it because i wouldn't mind just getting to the bottom of what you're talking about in this damon come on dylan friends my favorite podcast does a great job just if you missed it just have a little recap of some of the arrogance delivered by our own mark house dylan he's a good little fella and he rang me a year and a half ago and he said mate i'm trying to start a podcast can you help me out so i gave you some tips derogatory like he's a good little kid and kate simpson is a fantastic guest for the local audience which you bought local yes what is that what was that okay well a bit of backstory i work on triple-a minus show called the friday huddle where you are have to take on certain personalities that may not be you deal so we always say that luke darcy has a terrible temper nathan brown is very awkward in a social situation which is true and they have tagged me as being arrogant which i hope people understand with my podcast that is not me so i had to come out all guns blazing my friend um and call you a local show and it was no disrespect to kate simpson but we're having a bit of fun on the radio and then you rang in and put me right back in my place but that is not me that's me having a playing a role with a radio show on a friday night no and i know for viewers as well and listeners that we actually were speaking prior to this and we spoke after it and we both agreed that it's a great plug for both of our shows and jesus spikes after that were incredible so i do appreciate that we played the role you know what's crazy though is people 100 believe what they hear on the radio or television so last week nathan brown on the same show was going through what media people earn for example and he had me as the fourth highest football media earner at 1.3 million dollars i got home and my wife said where is all this money because we're not seeing it i had all these mates are texting me mate i can't believe how you've made a success if i was only 1.3 deal i'm living on a beach in costa rica i'm not doing radio so it's amazing what people do believe mate oh no it's incredible i suppose it's a credit to uh both your show and mine and the loyal listeners that do tuning because they were filthy they were not happy and they wanted blood so i thought today would be good to get to get you on and to settle the nerves and um and show that you know we are friends and and these things happen but mate um today's not about me it's about you um you know you're obviously normally asking the questions but today i want to learn a little bit more about yourself the man behind the mic because it's incredible career mate not just the the podcast but i suppose your tradition um so your you know route to media landscape commentating both footy cricket radio broadcasting uh and podcasting sorry i think a lot of people would think like [ __ ] this has just been a this guy's just blown up it's an overnight success but i think and i definitely know this it's a 30 to 40 year overnight success rather than um something that's just happened there's been a lot of work that's gone into it and i think that that's probably the biggest part that we can talk about today how your journey to getting to where you are now it's been a long road and a lot of hard work's gone into it to finally get the rewards you're getting today yeah i think you're right mate um maybe not 40 year journey i'm not quite that old but it's like the rock and roll stars you know had the when did you become an overnight sensation there's no such thing in media as an overnight sensation i think the generation probably your generation mate when i see the the people working in media they want to be hosting the show and commentating and being the main guy or girl within a year and it's just not realistic i think the great benefit you have with a long grounding is you i've played every role in the television and radio production from pulling cables to directing to producing to reporting to hosting to commentating so i'm in a fortunate position now after a lot of years where i know what the director wants because i've done his job or what the producer wants because i've done her job or what the camera guys want because i've done their job there was the other day at the footy was a prime example your man mark blitz was doing a fitness test and the camera guys were on a break and the director was saying we need someone to shoot this and i jumped up on the camera it was a little bit out of focus to be completely honest but they rolled it into the broadcast because i've sat there and i've used a camera before so to have the knowledge of what everyone's trying to do certainly helps you in your role i reckon mate but yeah there's no i don't think there's such a thing in the in the media as an overnight sensation no i completely how did it start in here like what was your traditi like what was the path how did you get into it did you study media growing up was it something you're passionate about did you just start you know working behind the scenes and slowly gradually get your way and find your niche yeah that's a two hour answer but to cut a long story short no i had no thought that i wanted to get into the media when i was growing up i did a business degree in sports management which was accounting and economics and things like this deal which at deakin university which i didn't enjoy i got six months in and i thought well this is not what i was expecting i'm having to do economics and accounting business law i didn't enjoy it but i finished it after three years and to cut a long story short i spent a lot of time a couple of years backpacking and a mate was getting married that i'd backpack with and the grand prix was in melbourne i got a short-term contract in event management at the grand prix and he was getting married in argentina two weeks later and i was skinned i didn't have any money i'd been traveling and i pestered the guys that ran the tv broadcast side of things in the world of formula one and they eventually said if you can get yourself to sao paulo which was the capital of brazil which was not the capital to where the race was the capitals brazilian if you can get yourself there it's a city of 30 million people deal but i'd been there we can give you some work for a week and a half and the next grand prix is in argentina and in between those two grand prix was my mate timmy harris's wedding so i flew to bono series and i worked with all these english truck drivers and we were pulling the camera cable so to get a broadcast and outside broadcast all the cameras are connected by cables and those cables go back into the broadcast hub so that was my first experience at sports media i was a rigger as they call it pulling the camera cables i went to timmy's wedding which is an absolute cracker and then i was going up surfing up columbia way and they owe me some money so i rang back reverse charges to the uk i said oh some of that money hasn't gone into my account i didn't have enough money to get home at this stage still and they said well put the money through we're glad you rang the boys said you worked hard if you can be in monaco in five days time there's a full-time job for you as a rigor so i flew home broke mum and dad's heart again and said i'm going to monaco and started pulling camera cables on the formula one circuit and that's how it all began which is a long way from doing a podcast so it's um that was fantastic man i was working on the formula one world tour traveling the world pulling camera cables as a 23 year old it was cool it's unbelievable mate and i think that back to your point you said earlier about um younger people now coming into an industry and not i suppose not the arrogance of wanting to be on camera but probably not knowing what other people have to do to get to where they are now um i i can speak from that myself you know when i left footy i was sort of thinking i could be good to just go get a full-time job on radio now it's not the case it's not how it works and i had to work at 30w i was answering phone calls um on you know 3iw like i had absolutely no interest in anything that they were saying at all but to slowly get to where you wanted to be you had to tick these boxes and i probably haven't even realized it till now but doing that by no means by no means am i you know an expert in my field and what i'm doing now but i learned so much from those early things from behind the camera from working with the producers to then exactly what you said you learn how then to better yourself and it actually helps you out going forward because now like with the producing side of things i can help other people produce shows i do know what audiences want to hear there is those backwards skills that necessarily if you go straight to the stop straight away and transition straight into a role of of talking on radio you don't really know what other people want you're spot on and i think it can harm your career as well if you want to be an on-air person and i've had mates that do it i won't name them but i've had mates that have been pushed up to high profile roles on television or on radio before they had the experience to know how to do those roles properly and it burnt them and it's cost them and they're no longer in the industry and especially mate which i'm sure we'll talk about social media is so brutal now for you as a footballer you as a podcaster me as a broadcaster people will give you their thoughts straight away so if you go on television or radio and make a meal of it when i was starting i was in the lowest of low profile things that no one was watching and i learned how to do it so all my cock-ups and made i have made thousands of them were on real low-profile style operations where if you go on friday night footy and you stuff it up now like a player mate the feedback and the response is brutal so i think that grounding helps you you don't want to start on the big stage you don't want to start playing the masters you want to start playing the bar when heads open and play your bad shots there not in front of the world on the masters i reckon so traditionally as well like there's no path you work as i said with fox you work with triple m you've got your podcast you work with all these incredible people and they've all probably had different pathways coming through your opinion though what do you think has been something that's held you in the best dead going forward is it just that time that it's taken you probably where you thought [ __ ] you know i can't be [ __ ] just doing this [ __ ] anymore i want to get to the top straight away you're always in a rush which i feel like i'm always in a rush i think you need to actually have that feeling of being in a rush you're never going to get anywhere anyway but what's held you in the best dead looking back now thinking that was probably the best thing that happened yeah for someone now i know it and i can act on it now it's a great question before i answer it can i tell you i would love to swear on my podcast i swear a lot in normal life but for whatever reason and i've had guests that swear whatever reason i can't i can't because i'm so used to not swearing and i am but i find it truly liberating deal that you are prepared and happy to swear on your podcast i love it i wish i could say that as well it just feels not right to me but i love people that can i think the best thing that has helped me in good stead is just saying yes so the amount of roles i've been asked to fill whether it was pulling camera cables and then we said they said we need someone to put the graphics on the screen at formula one i didn't have a clue how to do it yep i can do that if you're i was a reporter on the news and they said we need someone to commentate iron man i've got no idea about it but my theory is still always say yes and then start paddling and figure out how to do it because there is a graphics operator before you that knows how to do it so get hold of them there is someone that has commentated iron man before you get hold of them find out how to do it i think with the podcast now and i found where for the first time where i've had people doing things for me rather than me doing things for other people the people that just say yep i'll get it done and go and do it and don't ask too many questions and provide the results that is the type of person i like working with and that is the type of person i tried to be so the boss says can you do it you just say yep and you go and figure out how to do it and do it and you might make a mistake along the way but i think the boss would rather that than you're saying yeah i'm not sure and and you as you say you're in a hurry and i fully appreciate that so you just keep saying yes and that path becomes quicker so that's that's the best thing that i've learned along the way i love that and i think you know you would you chat to you know very high profile people world show as as you um commonly recommend it too global global compared to local brotherhood global compared to local did people really blow up when i gave you a coupon no they they didn't but they might when they hear it don't worry um i think the one thing that is prevalent in my guess and i'm assuming yours and i think it's in successful people like yourself um the one thing i always try and grab from people is doers and i think it's like the biggest thing in the world is just doing things like you work with so many incredible people you speak to so many incredible people and something that i admire about you the most um in your work is there's probably a stigma in in commentary and broadcasting that some people would hold is like if you haven't done this how can you comment on it yes if you haven't played at the top level how can you talk to people at top level how can you commentate these things how have you found that um has it actually been something that you've faced you know coming through your ranks in terms of like commentary and broadcasting podcasting even being an expert in your field and how have you probably dealt with that throughout the career it's a really interesting question once you start doing something so i was doing a lot of high-profile cricket broadcasting on the big bash and then foxworld came for me to call the football on the telly now i've been calling footy on the radio for five or six years and as soon as you start calling football on the television people have this generalized role that you can only do one thing what's this clown from the big bash doing commentating the footy so so you get that how can you cover various sports and i'd probably do it as well if there's a certain people person you're used to seeing in one role and they're playing another role but to answer your original question i think it is a big thing and i still get messages what would you know about the cricket you know how could you comment on the way coley just got out that's people just hating because i never ever ever comment on the athlete so that that's my first rule of thumb i don't commentate on a test match and say virat kohli should have flicked that through mid wicket and his hands were too high and he's batman he got a leading edge and he's out or gee that's a poor kick from dylan buckley he was obviously holding the ball wrong i never say that so when people criticize and say what would you know you've never played the game i'm not there to tell you how the game is unfolding i'm there to tell you about who's got the ball who's bowling and the way they do it and the experts beside me the ricky pontings the adam gilchrist the shane warns or at the footy the gary lies the jonathan browns they're the experts so it grates on me when i hear someone that is the commentator that starts to inject their opinion because i sit at home as well and think well how can i make no because he hasn't done it so i do that as well so i'm very aware to play your role and your role is to make the special comments guys and girls sound as good as they possibly can as clever as they can and that aids the broadcast overall to make it a more positive thing i'm just telling you what's happening they're telling you why it's happening and it's a really really important difference a really important difference mate i think as well and something that i've i don't know if this is how you felt through it but it's something from you know a spectator that i've seen you and obviously kept a close eye on you because i you know i love your work easement is when people do things and if you and i've just found this in my life as well in terms of i think it's australian culture we love like knocking people down and you know doing those you know tall poppy syndrome whatever it's called when you do something and you do it with conviction and you don't give people the option to be upset with it no one cares they just they just accept it like i think that's what with your transition from cricket and football it wasn't a time where you were like oh should i do this i don't know what's going on if you just go like [ __ ] i've done this yeah people just go oh [ __ ] okay cool get out of his way sweet but it's when you like second guess yourself and you maybe you're not as confident with it that's when people start to question and like they be able to seep in a bit more so i think i don't know if that's how it's transitioned with you but i feel like you haven't really given anyone even the option to question your credibility in that space and it's just come through so organically yeah and i think your credibility also when i say that i do everything to make the special comments guys and girls sound as good as they can that adds to the broadcast i learned that on the big basher uh the boss of mine david barham said we need to find out who ricky ponting is without his helmet on we need to find out that he loves greyhounds and the mark war loves a bet on the horses and that he just wasn't this guy that was pretty standoffish stand off with the media once you develop that chemistry on air with the superstars who are people people don't turn in to watch me on the footy or the cricket they turn on to watch gilly or john o'brown or nick riewoldt or shane warne once you understand that and you put your energy into making them sound as good as possible it's reciprocal because then they show eventually you respect and once warney says on a cricket broadcast yeah great call howie the punters at home think wow this boat knows what he's talking about ian baker finch taught me that on golf i did an early golf tournament and someone hit a shot i was like the little roving guru out on the fairways you know dylan buckley's got a 99 160 to the pin and i called it and finchy said i couldn't have said that any better howie that's spot on now i could have been way off but he said that and i had all these mates text me and say geez i didn't know you know so much about golf so it's a perception it's not that i know about golf it's that i'm playing my role and finchy's a beautiful enough broadcaster to bring me into his world and give you the stamp of approval and when the people that are the experts look after you then it becomes a convincing broadcast that's super interesting i think that's like a massive massive point from working probably behind the scenes on a radio show and what you would do with your team and the comedy commentary teams i think people from the public would think oh that's just you know three blokes sitting in there in a room commentating on a game they mustn't put any practice into that or know the cohesion or the teamwork or have these you know little idiosyncrasies that they pick up on throughout that goes into it but how much planning for people that don't know really goes into broadcasting calling a game where you've got a team of people going there that you look at each other you know the plays like you know with each other you play up on certain things that they do how much work goes into that a lot of it's chemistry that you build over time so if you want to talk actual preparation for a game of afl football for example i know you've got a lot of people in the footy so i'll say this openly i shouldn't say this but i hate preparing for a game of football i don't enjoy sitting there watching replays of two weeks ago of the gold coast sun so i figure out who every player is but it's part of the job i've never enjoyed the preparation part of it like i love footy but i don't need to commentate four games a weekend and then come home and figure out flanders is 26 for the gold coast sons and corbett is 19 but i have to as part of my job so i will spend you know half a day each week looking back figuring out exactly who i know who each player is dwayne russell for example i've talked to him about this he loves it he loves footy he just wants to watch footy all the time so to him that's not a burden to me i find it a bit of a burden but it's something that i can especially when i went into commentating on the telly i was commentating eddie was commentating there dwayne russell anthony hudson these are elite commentators and i had a thought in my mind i'm not going to be able to call as well as them deal i'm just not going to be able to but i can make sure i know the players equally as well as them so i can take that out i can take that out so i don't stuff up players so i've made a real focus on understanding exactly who each player is because i tell you mate if i call 600 players in a game of footy if i call one of them the wrong name i'll show you my phone and i've got to get better at this 30 messages you shouldn't be commentating how can you commentate you didn't realize that you know the other day i called charlie cameron kicked a goal i called it they were playing each other i said accidentally charlie dixon rather than charlie cameron now it's pretty obvious see there's a difference between the two but you'll get 50 message on social media how can you be commentating if you don't know the difference between those players so i i spend a tremendous amount of work on that then you make up your sheets so you've got an idea that joel selward's averaging 33 possessions this year and it's his career high so you do a bit of that work but then i learn a lesson early doors i have to do that to prepare but generally for cricket as well and the radio i try not to do a great deal of preparation when i started at channel 10 on motorsport i was working with guys that knew it inside out and they would do so much preparation and i tried it deal and it just filled my head with all this information and i couldn't focus on what i was trying to do so i do as much as i need to to get the players right and then i very much prefer to go by the seat of my pants because that what is what works for me but then if you look at mcavaney the preparation he'll put in is five times more than me because that's what works for him and i'm sure when you were playing footy you looked around and you thought right this is the way judy prepares i'll try that no it doesn't work for me this is the way jack sulvani or toby green prepares and then you found what worked best for you as far as preparation i think it's important that you find what works best for you but i tell you mate you get numbers wrong in a game of footy and by g people that you know about in a big hurry oh man i can imagine i seriously say some things on this podcast i have a unique skill that all the listeners would know but i can just like make up words and put them into sentences that like have no meaning whatsoever but i sort of just embrace it now and people i think they understand it's actually quite an impressive skill you might hear it today i can't call on it it just comes at some stages but but if you say it with conviction materials i mean like convictions are key you just gotta go with it when there's a difficult pronunciation if it's a subcontinental cricketer you just say it hard and fast and back yourself and don't stumble back over it and you'll be away my tongue has a mind of its own especially after i've had a beer that's what i try it's good to only have one beer when i do a podcast because after that i am speaking different languages which is interesting it makes a very interesting podcast um in terms of in commentating um yeah footy and cricket can you give me a couple of mentors or people that you've really looked up to in in both sports of ones that you know have helped you either away or inspired you to be the best you can adam gilchrist certainly i like to think i've got a really good relationship with gilly now there's a bit of romance there with you and gilly well i you know people forget that for the last eight summers now i have spent more summer time with gilly than my wife and kids because a test match runs five days you get there a day before you leave a day after there's a break between the test match you go to the next one you might be doing a big bash game in the middle of it so i spent a lot of time with him and when we first got the big bash at channel 10 probably ricky and mark war who i would hope i was counted as friends now you'd have to ask them uh they take a bit of getting to know those two blokes they've got you know ricky was the australian captain he was a tough man i probably took a year to get to know ricky and probably junior as well probably a year and a half till i really felt like i could click on air with junior gilly walked into that first meeting he's like my name's adam to everyone in the room he's just got a real warmth and immediacy about him and i was really drawn to that so hopefully i've helped him in broadcasting a little bit he has equally helped me to the point where if it's a new touring side gili will make the effort out on the ground where i've got to talk to the players he'll go and introduce me and things like that which is fantastic so from a quicker point of view gilly has been fantastic probably not without realizing huddle i i follow what hato does in football broadcasting because i think he's elite james brayshaw as well probably not so much asking these guys and girls questions but just listening to what they do and seeing them work i sat on the boundary for six years at triple m listening to james commentate the football every saturday and i learned a tremendous amount from that and then there's guys that i work for david barham at channel 10 and now steve crawley who's the executive producer of fox sports crawls will ring me or tap me on the shoulder during a stint of cricket commentary or ring me afterwards and say why don't you think about doing it like this i struggle with test qriket mate it probably took me two and a half years to really get the hang of it where big bash felt quite natural and he made a lot of suggestions steve that have really helped me so what's the difference there however something like i you know obviously it's a different game but what's the difference for a commentating perspective is it just longer form talking or probably a mindset for me i didn't grow up watching big bash and i look at it as purely entertainment i'm probably i'm an excitable customer when i'm commentating mate so if someone belts it out of the ground it comes naturally to me to get stuck right in but test cricket i grew up loving the game of test cricket so i probably hold it on a pedestal and then i was sitting there after going on a boxing day test with my mates for 20 years you're sitting there next to kerry o'keefe and shane warne and the boss says right you call the first half hour of boxing day you've grown up with richie and bill and tony and you're if i could swear now i would dil you're like i'm not richie i'm not bill i'm not tony how can i be commentating this game of test cricket and that took me a long time mentally to get past it then the boss said to me two years in he said we've done two of six years here you're going well but you can go to the next level but you don't know what's going to be happening in four years what happens contract wise whether you get another contract whether we still got the cricket don't waste your time hanging on the back row thinking you're not up to doing this you've got four more years four more seasons of it make the most of it because you may never got to do it again and at that point and shane is really good warren he's like mate you can people value what you're going to say and i'm like he said they value what you're going to say in the job you do back yourself more so that that was a massive thing for me and then there's the technical side of it there's a lot more gaps in in test cricket than big bash quick it was probably a confidence thing because i loved cricket so much i'm not bloody richie beno mate and then i'm doing the job he used to do and that takes a long time to get it used to i'm sure it's the same for you playing footy when you're out on the ground with these guys and you think oh gee i'm out here playing with chris judge should i i don't know what you thought dylan i could imagine you'd think geez how can i be out on the ground with him i would think the same thing in test cricket yeah and i suppose that's probably where for me you know i never really over overcame that and that's why i don't think it really worked for me so that's why it's a interesting topic when you're saying it because you've overcome that now and i suppose it just came from from repetition and just believing in yourself somehow having a good team around you that instilled confidence in you so a question for you then because i think now with 130 episodes of elite athletes on my global podcast that i knock out a deal i have learned so much and i'm stoked on learn i'm able to pass this on to my kids and i look back and think if i knew what i've learned in the last four years 15 years ago where would i be in life if you with the wonderful guests you've talked to like the emma murrays of the world and the patrick crips of the world if you had learnt their lessons now do you think you'd still be playing footy 100 percent i 100 would be but howie i i'm so happy that i'm not i know i know i i i know and you're in a better place but that if i knew what i knew then definitely and that's that's the selfish part of doing podcasts and it's probably something that you know we can get into um you know in a minute because like i i think podcasting for example it's it's something that it's for people to listen to and learn knowledge of people that's why i love doing it like selfishly there's an aspect where like i'm just chatting to these incredibly successful people they're doing things that i've wanted to do and every episode i try and just take one thing from it like one thing from every episode that i've done and normally you get more normally you get so much more but that's the biggest thing is i've chatted to so many people and sometimes it's like the most innocuous guess that that's where you get the gold from and i really really appreciate so i suppose in that aspect like yeah you're right like if i knew those things now could i be doing could i have played footy longer maybe 100 but i also think like i nearly had to go through that shitness of like being delisted not believing in myself yeah all that like [ __ ] time to then go [ __ ] and now i've learned it from a different aspect and i can relate it to a different part of my life in my business and i think we spoke about this when we chatted a while ago that energy that i you know i don't miss footy at all because i've just taken that complete competitiveness competitiveness and drive and just put it straight in back into this um and it's it's nearly the same thing i'm chatting to people all day talking [ __ ] um learning stuff and being able to put it out to the public and guess there's still there's still scrutiny there's still improvement areas there's still feedback so i'm sort of getting it all um it's just not having to run around and put my head over it yeah and i think as you say you can you can learn a tremendous amount from listening to people which is what podcasting is basically you're listening you know i've learned already in this half an hour that i need to get over it and i need to swear on my podcast that's one thing i've learned from you but we're having a laugh about that i rang you i texted you about a month ago you're up in newsroom i said mate i'd love to sit down and catch up and have a chat about podcasting because i think what you're doing and i can see where you're going and where you're going to end up it's it's it's phenomenal what you are doing and your vision which i don't know whether you want to talk about or not but i see you in five years running a series of podcasts and being like a podcast don and i i think it's that's brilliant mate and it i find it quite inspiring and i find it motivating that you're getting out there and having a crack and you haven't had the background in media i've had to help me along the way yet you're absolutely flying so i i've by texting you and saying mate let's catch up at some stage i'm trying to grab onto that knowledge because you're taking it to a whole new area which i think is really cool mate and massive credit to you and people that listen to your show you know you're you're you're a low-key larrican that's the way you come across but i hope people understand that listen to your show the direction you're heading in and i've got no doubt the place you'll end up because you're prepared to learn and work and think outside the box and i think that's what's really cool about most people in this space they're thinking outside the box as to to what the next step is so when we catch up i'm just trying to figure out what the next step is so i don't get left behind guru no i'm not at all mate i really appreciate that that's beautiful words it puts a smile on my heart and it's yeah to hear that from you as well if someone that you know has been there done that and obviously doing tremendous things it really really does mean a lot mate so i do do really appreciate it but that's enough about me you're buttering me up and i don't like it um the howie games yeah how did this come about this is i honestly don't know how this happened because you were onto this so early like was it just did ask answer this question because i feel like people always ask me how did you get into podcasting yeah i got into it because i had no other options no radio station wanted to give me any um time to come in and learn anything i started it because i was like [ __ ] if i get fired again at least i'll have 10 episodes to show a network next year that i've done some work and you can't get sacked from your own podcast mate you cannot get sacked from your own show i've found that now i'm 28 years of old 28 years old i'm 28 years of age i've been sacked three times already three of the best sackings two football one was um at 3aw which was we'll talk about another time um but it you know i've learned so much from those times but how did you get into it did you think it was actually going to be a long-term thing and were you doing this to just better yourself and get your foot in the door to higher places i can remember it clearly i can tell you the day it was the australian grand prix so it would have been six years ago now and i used to work at channel 10 and i'd interview all the drivers when they'd arrive and then you'd sit down and do interviews with whoever and whoever and i developed a on camera what i would call good relationship with lewis hamilton the boys on a friday night they will cut this out and they'll say oh he's dropping names again they always rip on me for dropping names but i i'll tell you the story back so when you're interviewing someone dil which is the essence of podcasting it's the perfect example in the formula one paddock so the end of a race or at the end of qualifying there'll be 30 journals in what's called the media pen so there's the guru from spain the guru from germany the guru from italy this is going to be a long-winded answer is that all right please keep going guru from austria the guru from south africa and louis gets paraded around with his media person in front of everyone and you get a minute you know he must be pope with a win or qualify etc and i noticed straight away that the journos are looking at him they're not smiling they're looking disinterested they're asking negative questions and i learned straight i knew it but it highlighted me if you smile louis great to see you i really appreciate your time why that qualify unbelievable how you feeling about that so you're just being a positive dude and straight away it's not that you're a tv star it's that you're smiling in a positive and the other 29 turkeys aren't that you develop a rapport so over five six years of doing the grand prix i developed a good on-air report with lewis hamilton and we sat down once to do a one-on-one interview before the race weekend uh you know we were talking about his pets and his love of music and uh all sorts of things surfing he likes to surf not formula one and it was meant to be a i think we had eight minutes we had an eight minute slot to chat with lewis hamilton and it probably went for 35 minutes because it was going really well um his media people could see he was happy and engaged so we had this 35 minute chat right cut a long story short as the great craig johnson said on my podcast and he didn't cut them short 35 minutes we're on air for 22 hours across thursday friday saturday sunday and channel 10. lewis hamilton because of the constraints of modern formula one modern television could only run five minutes and i was bitching and moaning and saying the boss this is the biggest rock star in the world sport we've got five minutes and we're doing a four-minute story about formula one tyres or whatever it may be said mate that's all the time we've got because of the constraints of commercial television with ad breaks so i was sitting with a great mate of mine jarvis hunter who's an editor and he's like it's 30 minutes of this gold that's never going to see the light of day you should turn these chats you do in our podcast and i said to him deal what's a podcast i had no idea yeah and he pulls out the old iphone and shows me the purple button he said look at this and he hits it and there's this world of knowledge if you like gardening there's one there for gardeners if you like speed boating if you like formula one how long has this been going on jarvie i said he said mate this is the future you've got to get into this so i talked to the guys at triple m they told me what gear to buy which i've still got here now deal held together by a couple of lack of bands and the very first one i did was with the first one ever put out was adam gilchrist but the first one i did was with dennis cometti and i went to his hotel room he said how he said what is this i said i don't really know den we'll just sit down have a chat and 10 minutes in i thought wow there's no ad breaks there's no producer in my ear there's no topics i have to cover i'm a naturally inquisitive person i'm in the same industry as this dude i can just pick his brain as you're talking about dill so that's how it started i remember driving home after recording with a great dentist committee firstly thinking geez i hope that recorded because i'm not really sure how to operate this equipment and secondly that's as much fun as i've had in the media for 15 years this is something that i want to pursue and we can talk about how it grew from there but that is the long story of how it all started mate yeah mate please keep going how did it grow from there how did it turn into the beast it is well uh then i recorded one with gilly and and we did a few more and i didn't realize how many people i had been fortunate enough to work with in sport of a high profile nature and then i had to go to the west indies to commentate on cricket for five weeks which is a good gig deal trust me commentating t20 cricket in the caribbean and there were these cricketers there brad hodge was waiting to play a game so record one with him or damian martin or darren sammy the west indian so i started to realize all the people that i do know and have met so we started to compile together so the gilly episode was the first one we put out i think i think after about two weeks my producer at the time michael james great man he rang me said mate we've just got to a hundred people listen well i cracked the kids open guru this is crack the cans open stuff so we got to 100 and then 100 became a thousand and then a thousand became a hundred thousand then you know where it's 50 odd million now and there's it goes back to what we're saying it sounds like you just record the interview and send the guest out and away you go do i of the of the 50 plus million people that have downloaded the show or have listened to an episode i feel like half of those people i have dragged personally by responding to a social media message or an email or having a chat with them in the qantas club or talking about it on the radio or the qriket broadcast or whatever so it's one to have the product which i i i think it's a good product obviously i think it's a good product but 50 million other people might agree yeah the the marketing of it and the selling of it to get people to be aware of it is a whole nother kettle of fish and that's probably where you know we picked up a lot of chats earlier when i was trying to do this and yes the way you explained how smart your marketing was and um you know i think a lot of people see you as a commentator they probably don't understand the business mind that you have too in terms of dropping it in when you're commentating when you're on tv and that's how like you said we joke about it but global audience you do have a global audience you've got global guests and you travel the world to do it um not only is it an entertaining show but it's a good business model um and that's probably been something that's been really admirable from my point of view looking at it going [ __ ] this is so smart yeah but and that's just been learned on the job mate that i i don't have a business mind like i did that bloody business degree but i don't have a business mind at all and a man that helps me with a lot of things craig kelly who who heads up tla management companies you know because i look after you as well he said to me about seven years ago you've got to stop coming out of meetings and say i didn't really understand any of that but i'll have a crack he said that's not what people want to hear in meetings you've got to try and understand it so i've tried to understand this business and the platform i'm on with listener probably the first two years i was pushing them the whole way because they were new to it and now it's probably a bit more symbiotic but it's just little things i i don't think he'd mind me saying this i i won't mention it but i had a boss at channel 10 that said i said can i mention the podcast on the big bash he said no but he said you've done episodes with gilly or ricky twice during the summer you can get them to bring it up so i wasn't allowed to say hey check out the howie games because you can't do that on a broadcast but they would just drop in on game 37 of the season oh you had damian martin on your show you know enjoying the podcast and that's all they would say and the big bash at that stage was going to 1.1 1.2 million people and my downloads you know you get that little graph it was like like the yu yang's and then they mentioned them boom it was like mount everest and that gives you a chance the people will then hear about it they will listen to an episode but then deal it is up to them if it's crap they're not going to come back so you get one crack with the audience when you advertise like that to come to the show if they stick with it it's completely up to the the standard of your product i reckon that's huge the art of the interview obviously you don't know what you're really doing when you first start you adapt and you learn each show you do it what do you think is your most important trait that you can bring to an interview to get the best out of a guest like i think i i know i listened to a few of your shows recently just to get a really good understanding of everything and you made a really good comment that i loved um that i never really quite thought about it like this before but you said you know when i have if an episode isn't up to standard it's never the guest's fault it's my fault because i haven't supplied enough information for them or made them feel comfortable or ask the right questions yeah absolutely it was funny i was going for a walk with my beautiful wife erica this morning she said what are you going to talk to dill about i said i don't know the pressure's off it's up to him if it's a good episode it's because he's done a good job and if it's not it's because he hasn't and that's why i look at it uh like the one i i didn't feel the one episode that i was never happy with was anthony mundine and people said yeah mundane was a crap podcast i'm like yes because i asked the wrong questions i didn't have the ability to connect with him where he was open to talk about his story so that was my fault it wasn't anthony's fault i i think the biggest skill and i've had to relearn it by doing it either zoom which we're doing now is to listen is to not say much is to really listen to what people are saying and react to what they're saying the worst thing you can do is have your questions written down and i'm thinking okay the next question i'm going to ask dylan is about what it was like getting cut from gws and he's talking about his gws days and he said it had a significant impact on him when his grandma died and i don't ask oh i'm really sorry to hear that how did that affect you i go straight up to that next question so i don't like to have stuff written down i like to fill my head with information and then just let it flow like we talked about earlier on but i think the most important thing is to listen make people feel comfortable and again have an understanding that people don't in my world i say this truthfully i don't think people listen to the howie games to hear me they listen to the howie games to listen to the bloody phenomenal guests we have on the show so the least i say probably in the last 30 episodes i'll probably start to speak a bit more but the less i say the better because then it's more of the guest and people are listening for mark webber not for mark howard hmm yeah for sure so interesting uh even just on that point i think i couldn't agree more with that and i've definitely learned a lot from you in that aspect but one thing i've learnt with guests and being you know players athletes high profile people one thing i try and do at the start of every episode i always say to them no matter what you say like you can listen over this at the end anything you say we can take out not once has anyone ever wanted anything taken out but they just feel so much more calm when i say that like they just it just disarms people straight away and there's ever been times where i'm like [ __ ] i should probably take that out just for their benefit and they don't even want it out but i've taken it out just because i'm like well that could backfire for them um and i think that's probably one thing about your show and hopefully mine is that it's i would never want people to think i'm trying to get a story out of them i just want to tell their story mate and that thank you i think that's why you're successful i say exactly the same thing the way i started podcast before you record deal if anything comes out that you're not comfortable with or that i ask a question you're not comfortable with i've said this 150 times let me know and we'll cut it out because we are not about putting you on the front page of the paper we're about having a general genuine conversation i've had i've had it happen twice once with brendan mccullum because he said that the way you ask that question around a certain topic it could be libelous he said it to me i was like oh okay and once anamiya's answered a question about drugs in cycling and she she answered two different questions and the second one she said i just wasn't happy with that answer so we cut it out but exactly what you're talking about i remember sitting down with cadell evans before we started pretty close fella lives down here in baron heads amazing athlete lovely guy i see him before he starts you know i i just don't see the benefit here of us talking about drugs in cycling and lance armstrong and the weight that came off his shoulders he was like really okay let's get into it and he was a completely different interview and and two percent of the audience might say oh that's a cop out he didn't ask him about drugs and cycling the same thing with steve smith a lot of people piled into me why didn't you ask him about what happened in south africa well steve is giving his time we have a relationship where he's agreed to come on he's not going to say i tell you what howie this is actually what happened so what's the point of bringing it up because he can't answer it cadell's not going to answer it in any way shape or form that might shed light on something we all know a lot about so don't even go there because as you say it's going to put them in a in an uncomfortable position and they're giving you their time and their expertise why make them feel uncomfortable i i had a prominent journo once actually say to me the same thing he said look i love your podcast but you don't ask enough hard-hitting questions yeah yeah i get it and it sort of really rattled me for a bit i was like oh [ __ ] yeah you're right like maybe i have to do that and then i really sat back and thought and i was like that's your role mate like if they want to hear that they can come and listen to you like that's not what i'm about i don't really give a [ __ ] what they can have to say about their that you know things that have happened if they're open to talk about it they are if they're not then they're not and that's something that i've been pretty strong on throughout and i think that i think the guests appreciate it more than anything oh tremendously tremendously and you get such a better interview and such a more interesting interview with steve smith not talking about mate whose idea was the sandpaper like why ask that well he can't say anything anyway so i think i always think that the guest is doing you a tremendous favor so if people say you're not asking the hard questions there's still a lot of topics that come up that you think gee whiz and i've had ones where i've rang them the next day and said you know what i think we should cut that out and they said no no leave it in there that's who i am so you're spot on i've had that experience as well if someone hadn't listened to the howie games they'd been living under a rock for the last uh six years what episode would you say listen to this one this typifies who i am this is the chat that i love what what is what's a highlight viewer does the one that stand out the one that i think typifies what i is that uh the entertainment factor of the show i would say listen to episode the episode with luke longley because he was just telling incredible stories about pseudonyms and checking into hotels where he was he'd check into hotels as bruce dool or norman gunston in his heyday at the bulls that's how big they were and stories about jordan just blew me away so from an entertainment point of view from so that the show is aimed at being entertaining the show is aimed at being inspirational and motivational and i think kate campbell and bronty campbell talking about failure and how you can try and overcome it it sits tremendously with me as far as summarizing big moments in sport adam scott episode 100 where he talked about the masters blow by blow blew me away but if i had to tell people to listen to and i love them all it's like which is your favorite child um although a day to day at home schooling at my joint it's definitely my daughter at the moment because my son just wants to go skateboarding and surfing but that's a story for another day um one that is not typical of the podcast at all it's atypical of the podcast and i don't know if i would do it these days which is a shame because of the just the way the podcast has grown in the first 10 episodes there's an episode with a guy called jack jones who was 80 odd at the time sarah jones grandfather passed away last year he is the greatest australian i've ever met it's it's about football and about serving your country and i just love every australian to hear about mateship and sacrifice from a bloke that was fighting in the jungles of papua new guinea it's not representative of the show mate and i don't know if you've listened to it but go and have a listen to it and you'll think oh yeah that's what he meant by that every everyone should have the opportunity to hear about mateship and service and putting others ahead of you yeah for sure so episode 10 jack jones i definitely it's not 10. it's in the first ten it's it's in the first ten um we'll make sure that we link it in the show notes as well foreign sounds fantastic have you had people say no to you before yep yep yep yep yep kelly slater was always my goat guest i know you i've talked about this with you and you're a nick curios man that he's yeah i am i'm sort of look he is one of my he is one of my people but i think that i'm probably trying to change the identity of the show now yeah not just sports people like i just want to just do people that are interesting and i would never want someone to come on the show if they didn't want to come on that's probably the number one thing as well big key messages and i suppose lessons you've learned from guests we spoke about it earlier we speak about it again because i feel like it's it's it's the reason you do um podcasting you know in a selfish way and it's not selfish because everyone else gets to listen to it but it's selfish because you're there experiencing you get to ask the questions has ever been something that really stands out to you in an interview or a chat with someone where you've just been like [ __ ] i needed to hear that that was huge for me i always finish mine we're lucky as you do to have a lot of kids listen with their parents so my last question of the podcast is always for all the youngsters out there what advice would you give i i should compile that into a motivational book because i've had answers that have blown me away the general i'll give you two answers that the overall theme that i take from my podcast which is when we're saying if you had your time again and the things you would have learned is for every ricky ponting that was always going to play for australia because he was so talented there are 99 john aloisies who had to work every step of the way to get where they are so my main takeaway from the podcast as a a general rule but a really strong rule is those that work the hardest achieve the most success that is it's such a cliche deal but it's a cliche because it is true like john aloisi his brother was a better footballer than he was growing up but he said i worked harder than my brother you know he scored the goal that put us in the world cup the piece of advice and it may be because it's in my mind because it's actually the episode as we sit here today it comes out today so i recorded last week with daniel kowalski and his view on the world was it doesn't matter what you do in the world what level of success you do or don't have the way he judges success is on how nice a person you are to those that you come across and it's i i haven't said it as elegantly as he said it but his basic message was be a good person and everything else will take care of itself whether it's in the sporting field the business field any other field and that that really hit me because i work in a really competitive industry and it's it's like your industry it's dog eat dog and it just hit me just be nice to be it just be nice be a nice person and things will go your way and even if things don't go your way people always say you know what that howie he's a pretty good bloke so that's um i think it's really important no it's it's honestly yeah it's a massive it is huge i think that you've summed it up beautifully there like just be a good person at the end of the day um good things happen to good people and that's what happens i think one thing that i really learnt from listening to your show my show anyone's show that does an interview thing as well i like i could talk about this stuff for days is the way what separates successful people um and successful people is it a conversation itself what is success i don't know about people that are happy people that are doing what they want to do and they're fulfilled and they've got purpose the one thing that i think is like correlated between all the guests that have that is it's not what happens to them it's how they react to it and when they go through like [ __ ] things in their life or they get sacked or things don't go their way they react to that differently to what other people would and they use it as a driving mechanism not as a roadblock and that's something that i have learned so much from people still something that i don't nail to myself today but it's always at the front of my mind it's not what happens it's how i react to it it's what i can go from here to learn forward because that's what i think is prevalent in all the guests that you would have spoken to all the guests that i've spoken to and you know not saying this is a it's not a superhero skill but it's something that is really hard to do i'll tell you what i reckon the superhero skill is in a moment i could not agree more is every athlete i've had on the show they have had moments where it was where they've made a duck or they've been dropped or they've kicked it out on the full or they've lost a major or they've choked over a putt every single one of them deal has had massive massive failures along the way and the elite learn from it at such a good point i reckon from what i've learned and i've i've always tried to do this but it's further reinforced it to me i think that the superhero skill you're talking about is a positive attitude again mate we're not we're not reinventing the wheel with what we're talking about here but i think i like to be positive i like to be surrounded by positive people and i think positive people generally get further and the second thing that i find i've found listening to people and i've really tried to do is not you know that old coach speak about control the controllables and don't worry about anything else mate i reckon that's the truest of true we're in lockdown at the moment here in victoria i'm doing what i need to do but am i thinking about it where they're going to get out of lockdown next week i can't do anything about it so why waste why bring a negative slant on my day why worry about something i cannot control and that has held me in really good stead mate just don't worry about the stuff that you can't control because you can't do anything about it i can't do anything about where they're going to get out of lockdown you can't do anything about it just worry about the things you can do which at the moment for me is helping the kids with their with their home schooling trying to stay fit trying to keep work plugging along i can control all that stuff so forget about all the other stuff i reckon huge mate such a good message for in at the moment especially being victorians covered it's it's [ __ ] it's obviously [ __ ] terrible like no no one's enjoying it um but it is it's so what happens it's our reactor we've just got to keep pushing keep going forward i think the biggest thing that i've learned especially for the young ones listening like this can be a time when you're playing xbox you're playing playstation you're doing these things but you actually can use it as like a nearly just lock yourself in a room and that idea that business that you thought you wanted to do and you've said you've always wanted to do it use this week to just [ __ ] nut it out that is like the biggest time you could do it um i'm this sounds like i've been positive the whole time don't get me wrong i've nearly banged my head against the wall i've cried i've been upset with everything that's happened but i thought well [ __ ] i can you know how he's sitting at home i'm gonna get him on the podcast this week yeah all these people are doing nothing i can just smack it out right now there's no other distractions um focus on what you can and it still gives you that little bit of fulfillment throughout the day that helps a lot oh mate that's what i did last year i used to put out an episode every two weeks and i was like i'm not going to do the podcast and someone said to me about zoom it's like well dan ricardo's not got a race this weekend adam scott hasn't got a golf tournament a plane sally fitz can't go surfing let's get him on like they're sitting at home to a bugger all like me and that's the great benefit of zoom alright question for you you talked about success how do you define success oh i love this question i saw a graph not long ago and it was like a graph i i'm very bad at explaining things um but it was a graph on like the old school success so it was like job title versus salary versus work and then there was just like new age success and it was job title salary success free time purpose fulfillment um passion all like there's like a million other things that you can measure in success now and i was like [ __ ] you know like is success to me like being the biggest podcast in the world and earning 300 million dollars and being extremely busy not being able to do anything or is it doing what i'm doing now being able to do what i love talk to incredible people have impact on people hopefully and live my life and also have balance and be able to see my friends and do things so much it's i think that that is success at the moment for me like i'm really happy with everything i'm doing not saying that i'm content as i said i'm in a rush i want to be doing a million other things i want to [ __ ] like i've got so many my biggest problem is i've got too many ideas that i want to do special things like even this lock down period i've already planned another business i've got a really bad habit howie so my missus has banned me from buying business names so i've got about about 14 15 business names okay i i've got that many [ __ ] ideas for businesses i go on there i get the business name i get the instagram name i buy the domain name right and i also get the um link tree name as well so i've just it's when i get that it's like this euphoric feeling i get like of just having these things planned in the background you're a business name hoarder i am it's embarrassing um so that's what i'm doing at the moment but yeah to answer your question like success for me is is doing something you're passionate about as corny as that sounds i think if you can be happy with what you're doing um and somehow making a difference like oh it sounds so uh childish but like it's not because i and i'm sure you would get this tenfold but getting messages from people saying like mate had a [ __ ] week listen to the podcast this week i'm like [ __ ] job done like i don't give a [ __ ] like i can feel any way anymore i don't care what i've done this week if i've stuffed up had a shocking week but if somehow if someone sends like a message like that through not that you you know not that you want to be relying on extrinsic motivators but that is something that really does motivate me um to have impact on other people because i know you know again in a selfish way if i was a kid and could listen to maybe a show that i've done with someone back when i was playing footy [ __ ] maybe that could have changed something for me you know i don't feel like i really had that when i was growing so that's probably where the purpose part comes from it's a great answer it's a great answer thank you and you what's your success well as far as the podcast yeah we've done episodes about mental health about racism daniel kowalski today for the first time talking about sexuality when people that have walked in that athlete's shoes that are a normal normal person that said that you know i suffered from or i'm suffering from mental health and to listen to liesel jones talk about it openly if she can suffer from it and this is what she did then that fills me with hope i get messages like that that um i get messages like that they make me cry this is wow what a wonderful gift to be able to give someone a bit of hope or a bit of happiness or a bit of a path forward i think that's that's all you can ask for as far as as far as happiness for me yeah as success for me it's just just happiness happiness is a lot of different things for a lot of people for me it's being in a position where my wife and i can take our kids overseas to the places we like going whether it's south africa or panama or costa rica or peru and spend six weeks educating them about the world and and going surfing and speaking a different language and and having a bus cancelled and having to come up with a plan b and learn about resilience rather than just hear the word that that's happiness to me seeing my family due to the work my wife and i have put in together to be able to be in a position like that that's that's happiness for me it's not it's not material it's not a house or a car or even a job but if you're going to do a job you might as well have one that you enjoy that's that's that's i don't get old mate sitting on the freeway going to a job that he doesn't enjoy for 40 hours a week that's something i've never understood i get it i there's something there that i saw a video yesterday and i'm sorry i'm taking way too much of your time but i'm in lockdown i've got nothing to do oh yeah true all right well we've got 24 hours podcast here but there was a video i saw the other day and it really clicked with me about that what you're saying then about working hard but doing it at a job you love and someone was saying how can you measure someone's work right or their work ethic on a job that they don't enjoy it's like measure me measure my work ethic in a job i'm passionate about that's how you measure someone's work ethic so when you say someone's lazy are they lazy or are they just in a job that they hate because if you're in a job that you're passionate about like you are and and i definitely am you will do anything like you will it's not even a jo you do anything to do that so i think that was like an awesome point it was saying like yeah absolutely if you're if you're not working hard or you're struggling to think oh i don't have a work ethic why can't i work as hard maybe because it's not in the field that you're working because you know what it's like when you've got your own business or you've got something that you it's not a job you you'll bend over backwards to get it done oh mate and i early doors i've done some i've done some terrible jobs that yeah i would have been the world's worst employee because i hated what i'm doing i've yeah yeah yeah i've done some crap jobs i don't think 30w would speak too highly of my work ethic on the phones to be honest i used to put through they the same number as like ultratune yeah and i was i was so like not i was pretty much planning my own show as well as being there um and somehow on the phone said i'd just put through the callers i was like yeah whatever sweet come you know line six and they'd go on air and they're like yeah jimmy here might have just got a flat tire and i was like oh [ __ ] i've just put through like an ultratune call straight online to like live so that was why i didn't really work out there and i can't blame them for um not uh extending some some casual hours for me so are you going to are you going to have another crack at getting into commercial radio which you'd be perfect at i'd look at matt i have no um i have no heads like i love what you guys do i love doing it at the moment i'm so happy doing this i love the podcasting world but i also think that there's a massive massive um hand in that commercial sense of what you've been able to do to build not only your podcast but your broadcasting and commentary and then also your personality on a radio like triple m you're sort of hitting three facets there that show three different views and i think that's an awesome sense like i don't something that i i'm really passionate about i don't even want to pigeon hole myself into being something i don't want to be just an interview guy i don't want to be just a footy guy i want to be different sort of things i think that the radio would actually really help that um and it's something that i'm definitely definitely keen on doing if the opportunity ever presented and like i said i'd never say no to it always say yes opportunity so i'll look to do something like that in the future for sure well it's fun mate because you can roll up in thongs and abortiz and you don't have to brush your hair you don't have to wear makeup you don't have to shave there's a lot to like about radiamo there's a lot to like about radio howie this uh this isn't as smooth as your transitions in podcasting because as we said we talk today i've not looked at a question we've just chatted it's been unbelievably um organic i've absolutely loved it but there was one story i wanted to talk to you about yep um that was in your podcast that gilly actually spoke to you about it was when you're trekking through south south america um looking for gorillas what's this one this is unbelievable firstly it's africa deal there's no guerrillas in south america okay that's uh that's fantastic that's a good research done there bonnie i was going to say because i knew that obviously i was going to say if you're looking for them there they're not there that's right so yeah i spent six months tracking around south america couldn't find a gorilla um so i went to africa mate it was um oh you want me to tell you the story of please do well i i spent a lot of time traveling as a young bloke and i was uh two years of south america north america middle east europe uh a lot of time in africa and i met some people and they said uh that they visited the mountain gorillas in rwanda and i thought that's for me that is for me that i was in england at the time i was thinking about coming home after a long time i was like no i need to go and i need to go and see this uh and i was i got myself to kenya and then uganda and the gorillas were they're sort of in the congo the mountain gorillas between uganda and rwanda so i went to kampala which is the capital of rwanda hitchhike caught a bus met another guy from perth we're all set to go and see these gorillas in uganda it's the middle of nowhere mate this is late 90s it's the middle of nowhere and we get to the hostel for one of the better term mate where we're staying an old mate there captain uganda says unfortunately boys the gorillas at the moment they're not in uganda they're on the rwandan side of the border and that was an issue because rwanda was just coming out of a horrific civil war between the hutus and the tutsis uh watch the movie hotel rwanda if you want to know what i'm talking about it was a frightening frightening war but i was pretty determined character thinking well i've i've sort of got myself around the whole world i can do this so we headed down to the rwandan border and they weren't letting tourists in but there's a certain way in that part of the world that you can make what would be described as instant visa payment deal for one a better term did they have the they didn't have the tap and go there did they there was no tap and go and there was no visas available but if you had i can't remember what the figure was but if you handed your passport over with some us dollars in it you would get an instant visa that didn't appear on your passport but i'm sure the money eventually got to where it was meant to go but it started off in the uh border bloke's pocket and from there i don't know so i found myself with this other guy in rwanda which was it was frightening in a lot of ways because so many of the it was a i won't go into it but there was it was it was a it was a war fought in many ways with very primitive weapons so there was a lot of disfigured people all right uh we get to kigali the capital and they say well this is the you got to catch this bus out here to go to um the national park where in theory the gorillas are people are really friendly they're pumped to see us because they hadn't had visitors in their country uh got to the small place there's no other tourists there staying in for a dollar fifty a night basically a concrete block that had some bullet holes all around the outside of it there was no running water me and old mates sleeping on the floor how we're going to see these gorillas and as luck would have it i was taking a photo of the rwandan flag on top of a municipal building in this little town in a place near roon gary an old mate comes up with his ak-47 and scared the bejesus out and he said you can't be taking it all in french so i speak enough spanish to get around so you span spanish and friendship they're reasonably similar you can't be taken you can't be taking photos here um what are you doing here i said we're here to see the mountain gorillas he said well you can't get up there but i work for the army and we do patrols up there every day to keep an eye on the guerrillas okay he said well come to the barracks the next morning so we went to the barracks the next morning and it was 200 us dollars each of us and we didn't know what we were really paying for but then we got a briefing by old mate in french so it was just me and this other aussie guy and they they were they were keeping an eye on the gorillas from poachers which were guerrillas gue guerrillas rather than gor gorillas so gorillas were coming across from the congo side uh and potentially poaching the gorillas which were worth a lot of money so anyway well rider let's go so me and this other fella and the army guys about six of them we start hiking up these rain forest mountains and they said to us if we see the gorillas gor gorillas then you've got to be subservient lie on the ground don't look at them especially the silverback okay if we see the other gorillas the gu e gorillas which are the poachers lie on the ground and don't look at them either so basically the instruction was if you see gorillas of any type deal lie on the ground and look at the dirt in front of you and that but they said if there is gorillas of the army type there will be you know there'll be there'll be gunfire that's what we're up here to do so it was a pretty sketchy situation thankfully there was no guerrillas of that type and we're probably four or five hours in into this hike and then i know i can i can remember it clear as day old mate stopped and he said okay you see over there where all that sort of grass and stuff is pushed down that's where the gorillas were last night that's where they slept it's not like a zoo like you're out in the middle of the jungle anywhere yeah middle of nowhere and he said i think there was no guarantee you were going to see them which is the great part of any adventure you don't know if you're going to achieve success that's why they always say the journey is as much part of the the trip as the destination and 25 minutes later he's like he holds his hand up like this and we'll have to lie on the ground and we looked up and then this glade was 10 mountain gorillas from the silver back to the mums to the little ones and you just you don't understand how big these buggers are like the blokes have just got arms like you know like jacob wiedering's quads that's how big their arms are these boys like they're big right and the silverback you know the old tarzana they used to sort of beat the chest they sort of do that obviously and and he walks over and i could hear him breathing i don't know how close he was because i'm looking down in the mud i could hear him breathing and all the army guys on the ground were all on the ground and he sort of has a poke around because he's used to seeing these guys sort of every day and he thinks everything's okay so he heads off back to the the i don't know what's a gorilla is it a troop yeah let's go with that well what would you know you thought yeah we're going to definitely south america yeah i wouldn't be the one asking me what they are definitely let's say a group rather than of gorillas and then we were able to walk up and we had to sit about 10 meters away and then the gorillas was up to them whether they wanted to interact and the little ones look exactly like toddlers they come up and the little one would sort of race up like a little kid would and pull your hair and then run off and his mother cuffed him around his head so we stayed up there with these gorillas for an hour mate from all my travels was the most magical thing i've ever done partly because the adrenaline partly because we didn't know if we were going to get shot partly we didn't know if we're going to see the guerrillas partly because we were in a country illegally with no visas in our passport because we'd bribed our way into the country and it was the most magical hour i've ever spent i had a shitty camera i've got a few photos that do not do it justice but that was in the day where you didn't need your iphone you didn't need to have everything and show everyone on insta that you'd seen these gorillas i've got some photos i i showed my kids a year or two ago and they were blown away and then we had to make our way down the hill out of the country but i can just remember lying on this wooden stretcher than that night in this little town thinking that's that's what life is that's putting it putting your nuts on the line having a crack and living an adventure that's to me still that's what life is all about so yeah that was the guerrillas in africa guru unbelievable you've nailed that i can feel you've definitely told that story a few times because it's uh it comes off the tongue very well mate you've been you've been incredible today i can't thank you enough for your time um the wisdom everything to be honest you're an incredible man you've done so many good things and and you've done it as we said earlier not not as an overnight has taken a long time to to build up to where you are now so you're real credit to yourself mate and um yeah i'm just honored to honor to know you and honor to have you as a as a per se mentor and um yeah can't be can't be more grateful for having you on the show mate thanks for having me on the show i really enjoyed it i always feel a bit uncomfortable answering the questions rather than asking them but you do a very natural job which is why i was happy to do it i meant what i said the way through mate i think i've got a lot of learning to do from you i'm about to start up with youtube and merchandise which you've inspired both of those i think the youtube channel might go out today we're still uh fine-tuning it and we're working on the merchandise um yeah so uh the merchandise isn't available yet but you've inspired me to go down that path and i i would like to think dill somewhere down the track that you and me can be in a position where we're looking after um a suite of podcasts i don't know if that would ever happen but i think that would be something that'd be really really cool definitely mate we'll take this chat offline i'm very looking forward to that and we will be tagging your new youtube um username when we upload this so don't forget um guys if you're watching this on youtube now which it will be swipe up you'll see the links um and get on howie's youtube page because that'll be fantastic what i might you've adapted you're the og and you're doing incredible things so thanks so much for your time and um look forward to catching up soon good on you mate thanks for having me on [Music] cheers

Channel: Dyl & Friends

Views: 5,514

Rating: 5 out of 5

Keywords: dyl and friends, dyl & friends, dylan buckley, podcast, vodcast, show, mark howard, howie, howie games, podcaster, podcasting, triple m, mmm

Id: rfMV_MvP5v0

Length: 77min 30sec (4650 seconds)

Published: Tue Jun 08 2021