6 Cliché Tropes We Love/Hate...and How to Make Them NOT Cliché

we're sisters best friends and authors on a mission to help you stoke your creative fire and live the life of your dreams we believe that purpose fuels passion and that creativity is your secret weapon for Mass construction there's never been a better time to bless the world with your dream realized you're listening to the Kate and Abby show what's up guys welcome back to another episode of the Kate and Abby show we're thrilled to have you here with us today we're going to be unpacking a very interesting topic something we haven't touched on in previous episodes and that is how to write better tropes and that you might chuckle when you hear that because you're like tropes you know tropes are something that should be avoided but that's exactly what we're going to talk about today is should tropes or cliches in fiction be avoided or are there more layers and complexities to be unpacked in this topic do we really hate these cliches and tropes as much as we think we do when there are every single day any trope-filled books on best-selling lists etc etc tons of books that have tropes are filled with great reviews five star reviews online and so obviously there is a reader base that wants to engage with these cliches and tropes so we're going to talk about is there a right way to do them is there a wrong way to do them how can we tackle writing something that has been done and over and over again but putting our own unique spin on it and having confidence in the fact that even though it's been done before we're going to do it in a way that's unique to us as an individual writer so grab a notebook grab a cup of coffee let's dive into this but before we start unpacking this we have to thank our sponsors who are you guys you're the ones who support this show and keep it going and we so appreciate your help we're so grateful for all of you amazing patrons if you get value out of this podcast and if you enjoy listening without any interruptions or sponsorships then head over to 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I have a whole series so check those out you will probably really enjoy checking out our writing thank you guys so much for your support So writing better tropes yeah let's get into this so there's a lot of cliches out there yeah and there's a lot of mixed advice that you'll find online about whether or not you should be really engaging these in your writing or avoiding them yeah so what's the first thing you would tell a writer who is maybe hesitant or afraid to write something that they feel is cliche or trophy or it's been done before the first thing I would say is examine the reason why you want to do it is it because you actually love it and you feel attracted to this Trope but you're like oh maybe it's too cliche maybe too many people have done it but I really love it and I really love reading it if so then you should do it you should write the book you want to read or if the answer to that question is I'm doing it because I think that there's an audience for this and I think that it will sell more or it'll be more attractive more marketable then that's not really a good reason to do it and you'll find that you don't actually last very long writing that that sub-genre or Trope or whatever it may be because your heart isn't really in it you're just kind of doing it because you think that you should jump on this bandwagon because like everyone's doing it so if everyone happens to if it seems like everyone's doing this but I really love it then you should still follow your heart on it I think and write the book that you want to read because that's very important to love it to have fun doing it and every person every authors um favorite tropes or favorite cliches or favorite plot devices will be different you know different assortment of what your your likes and dislikes are and that assortment kind of creates those unique ingredients that only you can put together into this story so I think it should be not so much like oh there's too many stories like this I shouldn't do it but if there are a lot of stories that have similarities like this why do you feel attracted to it you know and really self-examining that yeah and I think if the love is there the excitement is there then that's something to pursue and then on the flip side of that coin there's also writers who love a certain Trope or whatever but they feel that the market or audience or or the the niche for that type of writing is oversaturated so they're like even though I really wish I could be running this I feel like I need to step back from that and not write that specific thing that I love because I feel the market is oversaturated so it's interesting because you'll have writers who want to engage that because there's a demand and then also writers who are afraid to engage that because there might be over saturation in that niches market so really I feel like you and I have both the same uh type of thinking here and that you really need to check with your heart and see what is it that you truly love to write because that is going to show through in your writing that love that and you talked about this in a recent video as well that finding the book that feels like your comfort food like your comfort food book and and that love and addictive nature is going to shine through in the writing itself your reader is going to be able to pick up on the fact that wow this author clearly really enjoyed writing this story right and the reverse is true as well if it's something that you're really not enjoying writing and you're kind of just forcing yourself to do it that can also become apparent in the finished product your reader can pick up on the fact that maybe you didn't really enjoy writing this that much yeah very true yeah so I think that it's I think that's important to pay attention to like what's your intention what's your heart what was your heart telling you to do and follow that as your guide but there are a few tropes that I know we want to discuss in particular and how to like take these cliches and make them not so cliche so if you have a particular Trope in mind maybe we're going to talk about it in this episode because we're gonna break down six yes six really popular ones yeah and kind of maybe debunk some of these myths about whether or not you should write these and how you can put your own unique spin on them exactly yeah so let's jump right into that the first big Trope big cliche that we see a lot in fiction especially why fiction for some reason is the chosen one The Chosen One cliche of like you have this protagonist who is meant to be like called to this higher purpose whether they are like superhuman or they were born with some special power or they are written into some ancient prophecy or something like they're the chosen one who's going to save the world or save whatever they need to save you know like like some really um demanding higher calling that this character is is made aware of um and we've seen this done again and again in wildly popular stories so there's a reason why people like it obviously there's a reason why readers are um why they gravitate towards this story and I think it's because not to get like super philosophical but I think it's because like deep down we all feel like we need to have a sense of higher purpose yeah and we kind of want to step into the shoes of a person who's like destined to have this higher purpose and say of the world so it's cool experience to like see this narrative unfold Through The Eyes of a character who is meant to destined for greatness right but you also don't want to make it too cliche that like this just feels like every other chosen one story right but then then like the opposite of that is is like not something you'd want to write either because the opposite of that is that there no one's the chosen one yeah there there's really nothing special about the main character at all and no one really has a purpose in the book to and no one really Rises to the challenge to conquer the evil or save the world yeah so like there's no story there right so so now that you have to like completely avoid the cliche yeah it's finding your own unique story for your main character as the chosen one what is the internal conflict I feel like that's the aspect that makes it interesting yeah and you can get so unique with that why is it that they're compelled to go on this transformative Journey yeah yeah because otherwise the chosen one can very easily become the punching bag for the plot or the circumstances of the story and that it's like well you know it doesn't matter what this this character's conflict is they're just they're destined to be great so they are gonna be shoved into this story where they're forced to overcome all these things not because of who they are or their internal struggle but just because they're the chosen one so like that can very easily become very plot driven um when you're not digging deeper into the layers of like okay who's this character where do they come from what are they personally dealing with what are their flaws yeah exactly what are their flaws that's another big thing is like the Flawless main character um which they quickly become a punching bag for the plot because there's no internal motive driving their actions it's just rolling with the punches of the plot you know so yeah digging more into your main character if they are if you're writing like a Chosen One scenario digging more into the main character's internal conflict what are their fatal flaws what are their misbeliefs that's a really good place to start with their misbeliefs and figuring out where those misbeliefs came from something in their past maybe that made them believe this thing about themselves or about the world and what are the fears and goals that they are currently struggling with apart from whatever the external forces are trying to do to them you know right because I think as soon as we start delving into who they are as a character what their flaws are what their internal struggles are we connect with them as a character when that character connection isn't there we start thinking about just the overarching plot of the fact okay this is a chosen one story what gets us thinking about the structure when we're pulling back and thinking about the structure it's because we're not submersed in the story it's the same with books and film in film if we pull back and start thinking about the actors we start thinking about the film structure we're actually no longer submersed in the moment of the film in the storytelling aspect we're pulling back and we're thinking about structure so really what causes someone to think about the cliche or to think about the Trope whatever you want to call it is when they are not engaged with the character they're pulling back and they're thinking about the structure so what is it that's causing them to not engage usually it's flatness of the character we're not seeing the depth of that character and so that leaves the reader's mind to wander freely and think more about the story structure to think okay this is you know going to be The Chosen One saved the Saves the World kind of story but when we start engaging with the intricacies of the character those layers of complexity we're not thinking about the the overarching plot where we're grounded in that character in their shoes in every moment they're experiencing that's what we're grounding in we're not pulling back to look at these structural things so I think that's one of the things that really helps the reader to submerse in that character yeah 100 you can pretty much use all the same character building advice that we talk about any other character with a chosen one character second cliche is love triangles some people love them some people hate them I feel like they've garnered a lot more hate in the past like 10 years because it's been overdone a lot but you have to ask why was it overdone and why do people feel attracted to the concept of a love triangle even if they even if part of them is like oh this is so cliche I hate it there's some part of a lot of people that are attracted to this cliche um and it's we're thinking about because you can bring different complexities and layers to a love triangle I'm I'm like specifically thinking of the fact that I have a love triangle in my upcoming book The Lighthouse book um and it's it's kind of different and offbeat like the way that it happens I'm not gonna like give you any spoilers but but I have mentioned in in my Instagram posts that there's a love triangle involved and it's fun because it was fun to write because I was able to kind of take this cliche this Trope that some people are like no don't do love triangles and see like okay how can I make this more original and unique and like put a different spin on it so that you almost don't even notice it's a love triangle that's all you're like wait even the book and you're like wait a minute but yeah and and I say that because there are ways to make love triangles more unique and not just your run-of-the-mill like there's a female protagonist and then two guys that she kind of likes but can't figure out like which one she likes more and like one is like sweet cinnamon roll wholesome and the other one is like more of a bad boy edgy drives a motorcycle and it's like it's so cliche because we've seen it so many times like that premise has no real depth or conflict to it you know and so that's that's why I think it's tired and like annoying to see a lot because there aren't many layers to the character's conflicts but when you start individually developing the characters and then we have three of them and we throw them into the you know into the triangle together yeah then because we have already built these intricate conflicts as individuals the the chemistry of all of them together creates something special exactly you know it's not it's not just the character archetypes you know I mean of like um you know fill in the blank female protagonist and and good boy bad boy right it's like there's a more depth and layers to the characters than just like character archetypes I guess I would call them yeah absolutely so so adding those layers and making the character really rooting us once again rooting Us in the characters yeah yeah and even if it is even if you're writing something that's really simple like would I be described you know one really wholesome guy and then the guy who rides a motorcycle you can even make that interesting because because regardless of your feelings about love triangles whether you like them or dislike them the facts are that there's an enormous Market that supports these types of stories because there's very highly successful books and films that are based on very simple plots like that but what makes them successful there's a lot of elements of course for each one each one's different I think one of the things is that there's like this Burning question of like how's it going to end right I think that's part of it you just want to know what happens next it's like an unanswered question but you can take that to the next level by adding the character complexity yeah especially if you're writing perhaps a series that's several books if you want to keep your readers engaged you know the question will only keep them engaged so long without the character development there so developing those characters even if it feels like a very simple premise think about you know the average person like you don't have like all this insane stuff like in fiction happening in your everyday life but your own life day to day even if it seems like not A lot's happening on a daily basis is so complex and interesting not because of what's happening to you on a daily basis but because of who you are internally because of what's going on inside of you you're learning and you're changing you're transforming every day so let's take that very real um reality and apply that to our characters let's let's treat them like real human beings and delve into what some of those conflicts are and it's going to just make it that much more engaging yeah I agree third cliche superheroes what do you know I have super powers yeah the unexpected superpowers um which you know you see done a lot in like a lot of superhero stories and um Marvel Marvel yeah Marvel but there are ways that it can be done really well and then ways that it can be lackluster and like it might be the exact same premise and I know you and I have both discussed this at length like and and we've seen it across even like Marvel films like some of them have like really very gripping very unique the way that it's the way that the character is built and developed and then others are like a little more lackluster flat because of the way that the character is not as developed um and so again you know every point we're just reiterating the character development thing but don't shy away from like unexpected super powers that are realized throughout the book Trope because that can actually be really fun and exciting Kate and I have actually written that too but I was going to say right the blood race is definitely actually the blood race has several of these in it yeah love triangle it has superpowers as the chosen one it has a lot of these so yeah that's the thing is you can also blend stuff and make it unique this is about you as the individual writer you can also let go of this concept of these being tropes just because someone has done something other than you like there's other people out there doing it doesn't mean you shouldn't do it you know what I mean it kind of it almost kind of takes us back to like these Childhood Days of like oh they my friends are already doing that so now I can't it's like why can't you all do it you know what I mean it's like it's like it's kind of a childish concept when we break it down enough it's like oh those those kids chose the you know red balloon so now I can't choose that one you know what I mean that concept it's like it's like that we don't need to shy away from something a storyline a plot device just because it's been heavily used there has been highly highly successful books and films and video games whatever you name it that have been done many times over but the writer the author put their own original spin on it and breathed new life it became highly successful so it's not something you should shy away from you should lean into it own it don't be afraid of it yeah 100 yeah so with with writing a superhero trope don't shy away from it just make your superhero human above all else right and dig into those layers of complexity like what do they personally have to deal with because of their own conflicts now in the mix with the superpower conflict right and fourth cliche this is it the apocalypse characters facing an apocalyptic scenario and this isn't so much a cliche as it is like a it's a it's really a genre I guess it's a sub-genre um the apocalyptic scenario that your characters are forced into and they kind of have to survive and deal with what's going on um and that can be part of a really compelling story but it can't be all of it you know it can't just be like well here's my story idea the apocalypse happens and like everything blows up and cities fall down and maybe there's like aliens or something and my group of unlikely Heroes Have to band together and survive okay right that's not very compelling you might have a good external forces at play you might have a good strong setup for that but the internal forces at play is really the most important most crucial thing like that is going to be what's going to invest your reader emotionally make them empathize with your characters because we can't empathize with the apocalypse we can't empathize with just like bad things happening and you have to survive there's like my um a whole point about survival as a genre like survival stories survival films and I've mentioned this in my 3x story structure series um and how that's not enough like you have to dig deeper into more than just a life and death scenario what will happen if this character survives why does survival matter to this character other than they don't want to die like we all don't want to die like everyone wants to survive so how does that make any character different from another um right so this is the why does it matter yeah what is it they're looking forward to what are their dreams what are their greatest fears right making the apocalypse personal for them not just the overarching apocalypse but what is the personal tragedy that has happened or will happen if they don't succeed at XYZ and survive yeah exactly exactly and and bringing their personal goals and fears and dreams into the mix as well because it's going to affect every character differently and if you're finding that your protagonist could be like replaced with any of the other characters and it would be the same story then you need to go back to the drawing board with your characters and dig deeper into their conflicts and develop them better um and make your reader feel emotionally connected to your protagonist not just like okay well they I could be following any of these characters and it'd be the same exact story right exactly so true fifth cliche the bad guy who is pure evil or the villain who just is a villain because he likes being a Villain at no particular reason just wants to destroy the world and everything good and kind but this is probably my hatist yeah cliche like whenever I see it in a movie or a book I'm like oh my gosh why yeah why like it's so easy to just come up with a little bit you know just a little bit of personal Conflict for this villain I find villains are like even easier to come up with Conflict for them than Heroes yeah we're doing a lot of that in our series that we're writing especially you yeah well you're doing a lot too yeah I feel like the the villain that I'm primarily writing is has more of a darker more yeah there's several villains yeah we could go into more but I feel like I'm gonna say spoilers yes we don't want to accidentally spoil but coming so so that's something we've seen over and over and over again in like superhero films and books and comic books whatever you name it where the villain doesn't really have any internal conflict they're just evil because and period because it can leave the story feeling a little flat and you can instantly take your storyline to the next level by giving the villain a personality giving them a reason even if their reason is born out of fear and misguidance yeah that's where it should be really born out of is like what what's happened to them to create a fatal flaw and a flaw that's like so deeply rooted a misbelief that's so firmly held on to that it has turned them into a monster exactly you know it's really interesting exploration of human nature and psychology and and it can be really interesting to explore the layers of that because your character is a result of what's happened right you know so making your villain more tragic you know and and digging into okay well they were they were good at one point they weren't born evil so what happened um and even if you just have to write backstory for yourself like it doesn't even need to go in the book necessarily it probably should be referenced or at least pointed to alluded to but even just writing backstory for yourself and figuring out okay what has led up to this villain being the way they are um how is it personal to them what they're doing why are they trying to accomplish what they want and how is it connected to their fatal flaw and where did that fatal flaw come from even just those few basic questions will take your villain to a way better level than most cliche villains I think it can also be helpful to not think of your story in terms of hero villain but think of your story in terms of you're writing about two people who have made choices in their lives and what has brought them to where they are now they're both just people rather than thinking this is a villain this is a hero and automatically assigning these roles to them think of them both as people who have just made different choices in life and those choices have brought them to completely different and possibly polarizing positions and how did those choices affect them what caused them to make those choices and that's when you get into all the good like gut-wrenching internal conflict and that's where the story is found and once again when we're submersed in the character we're not pulling back and thinking about the structure sure when I think about oh this is just one of those bad guy wants to destroy the world and the hero does everything right stories we're thinking about wow like this is so complex I'm trying to understand this character I feel like I almost feel sympathy for this character and that was one thing that I had so many people who read my follow-up series The Sparrow series which was the follow-up to my blood race books um the I don't even like to call them a villain because they were I loved them so much but they were more like an anti-hero of Their Own Story and everyone really loved this character the character of Corporal price yes and and he he kind of is acting out this bit of a villain role he he's he's on a negative trajectory but his reasons are so compelling that you're kind of falling in love with this character as you're reading about them and I had so many readers tell me like I felt like I was on the brink of tears reading about this character it's like that's who your villain or anti-hero can be when you give them those reasons and complexities yes 100 yeah you did a really good job with that in this Pharaoh series and fun to write too for people who uh want to write that negative character Arc and make it feel believable check out my two-part video series that I did on negative character arcs the first video I go into like the different types of negative character Arc and then the second one I go into it's more like a science of story actually because I go into two different examples um of the negative Arc and it's very loaded those two videos so check those out um so the last the sixth and final cliche Trope is dysfunctional families I like to see this so much and why books especially because there's usually more of a focus on family and why books but other books as well um and I feel like the dysfunctional family Trope can sometimes just feel like lazy writing because it's like uh we don't really want to write complex family relationships so just have them all be like dysfunctional and chaotic and kind of not get along or the parents are gone or the parents are dead or somebody's just like a lot lots of family members are just missing and well they kind of are all at odds or hate each other for reasons that are never gone into like we all just are like mean and hate each other yes we just don't get along even though the like why we never go into that we don't know but they just don't they don't because they they the plot needs them to not get along right and it's like well wait a minute there's so many different layers of complexity to explore there like especially with family relationships it's never it's never it's like set in stone this is my relationship with this person and um you know it's very clear and obvious and uh I don't even know like the words to describing I'm trying to say but there's a lot of evolution yeah there are relationships in motion yeah and different layers to it you know like mixed emotions I guess like especially with family relationships more so than friends or co-workers um or romantic relationships obviously with romantic relationships you have a lot of mixed emotions but I think with family especially because you're like all kind of forced to be together at one time or another um there's lots of conflict to explore there and if there is conflict or dysfunction in the family then can we spend a little time at least exploring why or maybe the history behind it even if you don't go super deep into it it still is it shines I notice when I see that in in stories even when it's a little bit deeper you know touched on than just glazed over it really stands out as like something to think about you know something to dwell on and something that makes you think about it after you finish the story and those complexities I think can add a lot of depth to the story more so than just you know more dysfunctional or the parents are missing or like we don't really want to explain it it's just more convenient this way to not ever mention the family it's like well this could actually be an interesting opportunity to go deeper into the characters conflicts and their past and what made them this way I mean I I this was something that I've never I never used to appreciate that much until probably like three or four years ago um in my own writing and I really started digging deeper into relationships between characters and really making that a part of my outlining process because even though it doesn't necessarily have a timeline it might have a timeline in that like relationships might change over the course of the story but Where Do We Begin you know what when we first meet these characters what are their relationships with each other and where has that come from because you're walking into a world with these people who have always existed really you know and you kind of if you start thinking about it that way then you see they have pasts and they have conflicts that happened in the past that have shaped who they are and it just makes it feel so much more realistic I find yeah and we've been exploring that a lot with the series we're writing yeah the family Dynamic yeah because the two characters which I think it's okay to say that like they're siblings and so writing those dynamics of who they are as siblings what they mean to each other what's in the past that has brought about feelings of angst or feelings of love or compassion now what happened in the past that created that there's like so many layers to that that we've been exploring so much backstory we've written um and especially the Abbey's written um that's not even in the books it's themselves but we're drawing from that right so much of what we talk about is about what happened in the past that has made these characters who they are now and who they are to each other and these Dynamics as with real families are constantly in flux they're constantly evolving and changing you have with siblings you have the um aspects of growing up age differences and and what those Ever Changing environments how that causes them to change their relationships with each other how that evolves over time with with couples you have the same like this chemistry that goes on this amazing journey over years and and the relationship with parents and children and how that changes when they're at these different stages and so you have all these moving parts and pieces that can cause dysfunction that can cause joy that can cause humor that can cause serious discussion and figuring out what are some of the pieces of backstory maybe even going into for your own purposes like what's some of the where did these people come from yes where did they come from what was their Inception what made them who they are now and that's going to affect their relationships with each other yeah and and if you're struggling with like figuring that out what I've been doing lately is just literally taking two characters that have a lot of scenes together and opening a new document in my scrivener and writing okay this character and this character and just start like writing a free flow of thought on their history together and what their relationship is like how it's changed over the past um over the course of the past and what it's like now and even just doing that like just a really quick free flow of thought and see what comes of it you know do that for each character pairing so maybe you have a main character and their mom main character and their brother main character and their father main character and their teacher you know whoever it is in this character's world what's the relationship like where has it been where is it gonna go in the story and a great example of that too if you haven't read Abby's second book which is the the sequel follow-up book to 100 days of sunlight which is the Westin in Tessa's best Christmas ever Christmas book but the it delves deeply into the relationship with Tessa the main character and her mother who has been kind of estranged and was not in book one but she's mentioned and now we're bringing her into the mix in book two and it just resurrects all these really deeply seated emotions that they have for each other perfectly done everything we're saying here Abby executed super well in that book so check that out if you have if you want like give me a good story example yeah that's a really good example of it it's lots of dysfunction humor compassionate thoughtful moments out of this you know all these stirring emotions that two family members have for each other yeah well thank you yeah I think that was a good example because it's it's more complex than just like it's always changing like yeah just like with real people yeah just like with you know if you and if you need inspiration think of your own family yeah you know that can be um a really good place to start I think the reason I love writing a siblings so much is because yeah we're very close yeah we draw so much from who we are yeah and like Infuse that yes it's great it's great I love it me too so yeah those are the six cliche tropes and how to make them not so cliche um to recap there's nothing wrong with writing cliche tropes that you've seen done a lot before remember that they're popular for a reason they have often become best sellers for a reason so there's nothing wrong with writing these tropes you just have to figure out ways to make them more unique and put your own spin on it um and finding the complexities and why it matters to the characters is what's going to help you every time like character development I think that's the bottom line like dig deep into character development and make your characters have Rich internal conflict everyone has a flaw fatal flaw misbelief um everyone has their own unique goals and dreams and fears and each character has these unique layers to them that make them different from all the other characters and if you do that you can write any cliche any Trope any genre and make it powerful and emotionally compelling because you started with why it matters not just what happens and I think too you know we're calling them tropes and cliches here for the sake of being able to all understand this together but you can also remove those labels and liberate yourself as an author to lean into your story and realize this is your story this is not just some cliche this is not just something that's been done before no one has ever done what you are actively doing and so maybe when you sit down at your writing desk or into your in your writing space give yourself permission to let go of these labels or these looming ideas of all this is over saturated Market oh this has been done before you know I'm I won't be able to bring enough originality to it just free your yourself from that and say to yourself you know what no one is able to write this story that I'm writing because it's uniquely mine and that is really that's really the Crux of the matter that's really the truth is that this is your story and you can you can remove the labels and and just let yourself tell your unique story lean into the experience so true I love it so hopefully you guys got a lot of value out of this episode if you did comment below and tell us your thoughts join the discussion we would love to hear what you think of this whole topic and what your favorite tropes are um also if you haven't seen the video version of this podcast you can find that on Kate's YouTube channel which is youtube.com k a MNS thank you again to our amazing patrons who make this show possible make it free of interruptions we appreciate you guys so much love you so much if you want to help support this podcast go to patreon.com the Kate and Abby show and help us keep it alive and free of interruptions we are going to have a live hangout session for the patreon community next week so keep an eye out for that announcement and we hope to see you guys over there thank you again for listening and until next time stay stoked and rock on

Channel: K.A. Emmons

Views: 22,379

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Id: _CwWYON7FGw

Length: 41min 34sec (2494 seconds)

Published: Mon Mar 13 2023